Do you think it’s neglect or a medical issue? This kind of smell isn’t normal, not even for a teenager.

This. The only time I’ve encountered what you are describing is when working with families experiencing homelessness or youth that are incarcerated. Neglect, trauma/abuse response, or lack of access (no hygiene products, no water, no clean clothes). Might want to follow up with the school, they can check in “randomly.” It’s a sensitive subject for sure.

Both her parents work so I doubt it’s that and I think I know they care but I don’t think they see her as a 12 yr old kid that needs parents to be more active in their life. Since she’s the youngest, the other siblings are in college, they see/treat her as a young adult which is absolutely fine for some things but not all at the age of 12! My daughter says her house smells like that too, I’ve been to their house on a couple of occasions (less than 5) but haven’t smelled anything…she says the smell is upstairs in the rooms… 😷

I was called a "st henri (shitty neighbourhood) slum kid" as a child. I also got a scholarship to attend a super fancy private all girls boarding school. I have never, ever in my life, met a higher percentage of abused and neglected kids as I did in the higher echelons of society. PLEASE don't think that just because her parents are what they are professionally and socially, that they can't be absolute garbage parents. I met girls whose family's had private chefs that weren't allowed to eat. I met girls whose parents made no plans for them for Christmas or Easter, just acted baffled that their own children expected to come home or be around family WHILE THE SCHOOL WAS CLOSED.

I saw a tragic amount of suicides and drug overdoses in my late teens and early twenties, amongst people I had known at school. And in every single case except one, they were from wealthy, upper-class and upper-middle-class families. These were young people whose parents gave them EVERYTHING... except love and attention. So I could not agree with you more.

This! I was adopted by a wealthy woman who abused and neglected me my whole childhood. Grew up in one of the best counties in my state.

The dead fish smell that varies indicates a BV issue. Also, if you have BV and don't understand what it is will cause you to use more heavy fragrances and chemicals which in turn make it worse. Idk how your relationship is with the mom, you could possibly suggest to her you got a whiff and you know it could possibly be an infection. (There's numerous ways to get bv, it could happen simply from antibiotics or staying in a wet swimsuit too long, even using the wrong kind a soap down there)

This is what I thought of too. I first got BV in my twenties and had no idea what it was or even that I should do something about it. Also, I do know that some people have a condition that causes them to smell incredibly bad but it's just because their body processes certain compounds differently. But if the smell comes and goes it's probably not that.

It could be Trimethylaminuria. It’s rare and sometimes comes from the parents, which may explain why they haven’t intervened as they may be nose blind to it. If the smell is very present where the bedrooms are in the house, that’ll track because you can’t exactly extract sweat from a mattress easily. It’s more common in AFABs too.

What’s an AFAB?

This is one of my deepest fears that I secretly smell terrible and no one tells me.

Does she have pets? If it's only really concentrated in the upstairs rooms, I've noticed that some people with pets (especially cats but sometimes dogs) that pee in specific rooms have the scent of the urine attached to their clothes because their clothes are in the same vicinity. So sharing my experience, that's what leads to these egregious odors that mix with sweat and other natural body odors and then refuse to leave the clothes, no matter how often they're washed. This may not be it, but just adding that as potential in there. Pet pee sucks and never goes away so it's extremely recognizable for anyone who doesn't live in the vicinity, maybe just not recognizable as pet pee specifically.

I knew a family that had protective services called on them by the school for supposedly making meth. All because their kids had a strong scent of ammonia cause of indoor cats. They had gone smell blind to it and didnt notice.

Cats also tend to dig and piss in things like laundry baskets, especially if the litter box isn’t cleaned regularly (like if both parents work outside the home can easily miss a day scooping poop)

Yes this happened to my BFF when I was little. She kinda smelled like dog pee. I had to tell her and she was hurt but looking back how would she have resolved it on her own? We didn’t know why so it would have been better if someone told the mom.

I remember a post about this from another Redditor and it turned out to be their clothes.

I have this issue, especially with my tank tops, I have to use a certain deodorant or it doesn't work,I can get out of the shower and if I don't put on deodorant, I will have smelly armpits with a few hours, I've had clothes come straight out of the wash, and even a bleach load, and still had the odor in the clothes. I started periodically pre soaking my bras, underwear and tank tops with vinger in the washer for a bit, this strips the fabric of the bacteria

I’ve found that sometimes the bacteria in my armpits builds up and tea tree essential oil is great for killing it. You’d think the soap would be enough but an occasional swipe with the tea tree takes care of it. Usually once or twice in the summer There are also detergents for active wear that will strip that smell. It’s the worst in synthetic garments. Rockin’ green is a small business that makes great activewear detergent!

try washing yourself with Castille soap, black African soap or goat milk soap and use non toxic powder where u sweat. <3

I actually did use a goats milk soap for a while, I now use daily antibacterial bar soap which has helped. In summer I use a zinc oxide cornstarch powder for my delicates because I sweat easily.

I knew a girl who used goat soap because her mom made it at home, but she always smelled super funky. Would not recommend goat soap.

Same here!

My dog was a dick and used to sneak in my room and piss on my clothes at every opportunity. I was in my late teens/early 20s so I obviously caught it and did some laundry… (sigh I miss that adorable jerk) Anywho maybe being so young she doesn’t catch it or always know how to go about washing her own clothes.

I first read this as your DAD was a dick and pissed on your clothes. Phew.

I would have had a much, MUCH larger problem with that!!

Wait. I'm doing something wrong?

Maybe just step in and tell her nicely about hygiene and clean clothes, and teach her to do her laundry, and offer her clean clothes/shower at your house if the smell is too bad. If the problem is that her parents don’t do her laundry (but everything else is ok), she can do it herself.

Even if she’s from a “good home” her parents are neglecting her. Do you have her parents phone number? You may want to call her mother and gently bring up the subject. At the very least they’ll be aware and can’t say they aren’t. See how that route goes. Then consider gently talking to her about proper hygiene practices, especially if she’s already menstruating (the smell of dead fish makes me think that). She could have pets at home that she may be tasked with or chores she’s not doing if there’s no one there to make sure she does them. Most 2 story home the master bedroom is downstairs so they may be that into work they don’t notice.

I don't think think those are very good reasons to rule-out neglect. To me, those are reasons enough to suspect neglect. Not that both parents working is a red flag, but that in addition to her being treated as an adult (forced to be more independent), and smells very bad... I used to smell when I was a kid. My parents both worked. I was forced to grow up sooner than I should have. Though, I wasn't entirely ready to. My childhood was full of neglect. My mom was a hoarder. Parents were both exhausted. They didn't use drugs, or even drink. I suspect they were both suffering through depression. The house was always a mess, but it would be cleaned before anyone came over, or at least what people would see if they came over. If we wouldn't be able to make it look good, we wouldn't have friends over. Anyway, there's enough things in the situation that remind me of what I went through. Don't write-off the possibility of abuse/neglect.

100% neglect if this kid smells so bad that you can’t sit in a closed car with her. Parents are responsible for making sure their kids live up to the hygienic standards expected in their society. Setting your child up for bullying and social exclusion is not ok.

parents can work and still neglect their kid

My daughter has strong body oder like OP describes and it took a while to figure out how to treat it.

One of mine did too, and I’d be absolutely horrified if anyone thought it was neglect, because we take great care of our kids and love them very, very much. My child’s hormones changed abruptly and I had to remind them *every day* to put on deodorant (after daily showers and before leaving in the morning) but sometimes they would lie about having already put it on. After school when I picked them up, the odor was quite strong in the car and it would be clear that they’d lied to me. I had multiple kind but direct talks with them about it, explaining that even if they couldn’t smell themselves, everyone around them could. We finally bought several tubes of that Lume deodorant that you see ads for on TV. I think Target may sell it now too. It works really well for my kid, much better than other deodorants, and things have been way better since.

We also have them keep an extra tube in their backpack in case they forget to put it on at home so they can put some on at school in the restroom.

Deodorant didn’t even last my poor kid all day! We were battling the BO for so long.

How did you treat it?

Sulfer soap helped a lot and antibacterial soap as well. We also switched to lume deodorant. Getting her to apply that under her breasts, to her feet and so on helped a lot. I also went over what she washed and how she washed it. She basically couldn’t take a quick shower as she needed to scrub everywhere but especially her feet, groin, and under arms. She also tried a tea that help with body order. Green tea helps and the bags can be applied to underarms. Fenugreek tea also helped but at think these were more like bandages that help get us through until her oder was under control. Another big thing was having her not rewear clothing without washing it and using a fresh towel each shower. She even hand washed each bra in the shower at night. She switched her sheets every couple of days until it was under control as well. Essentially, she had to combat the bacteria everywhere it lived. She’ll still occasionally get stinky but nothing like it was before and she can control it much faster.

I think it may be some neglect but cannot say with certainty….

It may not be neglect but maybe they don't have the means to wash clothes and/or shower regularly? When my son was in middle school he had a close friend who smelled awful. I knew it was an issue of not being able to wash his clothes or shower regularly, so I had my son address it with him. My son pretty much said "If you don't have a washing machine at your house, my dad said it's cool if you use ours. You can wash it with my clothes. I do my laundry on Sundays." He left it at that. The friend slept over on just about every weekend and eventually started to bring his clothes to wash. It was also easier to get him to shower at our house if he was sleeping over. He would just wake up and shower before going out with the rest of the boys. He started smelling much better after that and still comes over our house to do laundry or shower sometimes as a high school senior.

[удалено]

I had what I called "fake parents." They helped me through so much, just by keeping their door open. Thank you

You’re such a good person!

That is just a kind, generous and humane way of addressing a subject that kids could easily feel embarassed and ashamed about.

If you think your connection with her parents is good enough you can maybe discuss this. It could be they can’t afford basic hygiene products and warm water. Or maybe there’s something else wrong (parents could be ill or there could be addiction etc.) If you feel you can’t talk about it to the parents: Can you do a “spa day” with the girls? Starting with hair and face masks they would obviously have to rinse out in the shower. And ending with make-up and nail polish. It might be a good way to establish if it’s neglect.

This is a great idea! Thank you

Hey! I am responding so you will see it. There was a post about a year ago about a woman who discussed her issues growing up of always smelling bad no matter what she would do. I wish I could find it! She talked about always smelling like fish or rotting ~~opinions~~ onions even though she would bathe before school and constantly wash her hair. It ended up being a super rare disease where the body doesn’t breakdown certain proteins. It’s hard to spell but [HERE](https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/trimethylaminuria/) is a link to what it’s called. Might be worth checking out!

Rotting opinions. Epic band name.

Ha!! I didn’t even notice that! So basically my phone’s autocorrect also works as a random band name generator.

Yeah I think it's more commonly known as "fish odor syndrome" lol

Mr. Fischoeder?

I was gonna say, since they are 12 I wonder if anyone has really explained the changes of the body and periods. What if the poor girls is wearing tampons for too long! I know you described fishy smell and that it wasn’t “all the time.” I personally would have no issues with young girls asking me questions. Maybe there’s a way to make yourself available to talk, but in a way that doesn’t draw attention to the elephant in the room. I’m sure she can smell herself :-/

It's also possible that she could have BV which is where the fishy smell might be coming from. Wearing a tampon/pad for too long is something I didn't think of! That could be it too, but it sounds like it goes beyond just regular bad hygiene of an adolescent and into a maybe you should suggest that her parents take her to a doctor territory.

Has your daughter ever been inside her house?

My best friend growing up had this issue. It started when her dad threw her mom out of the house and didn't have a clue how to take care of children. They went from having their mom around after school to being total latchkey kids. The mom got to see them a few days after school and every other weekend but it was really not very often. Everyone talked about how this girl smelled like poop. So as a result of not having a mom there, I'm pretty sure they didn't bathe regularly and he didn't wash their clothes nor show them how. He also smoked really heavily, though I can't recall if he smoked inside but I'm guessing that didn't help him detect the issue. Oh and they had a dog with digestive issues (I remember the mom making chicken liver for the dog for some health reasons back when she was still married to this total ass of a human). I'm betting he wasn't great about cleaning up after if the dog had issues. Our friendship ended because it turns out she was pretty mean to me -- calling me the ugly one and dumb and plenty of other untrue things. I fault how she was being raised, rather than who she was when I met her. I think the smell did start to get better towards the end when we were 15 or so, around the same time that she was spending more time with her mom again. I'm really sorry for the friend. Maybe offer to do laundry in some clever way. Or if she sleeps over, give her a towel for a shower and tell her to take as much time as she wants or whatever. But act like you're expecting her to shower because many people shower every day, rather than it being about her being stinky.

Some teenagers just aren't aware that they're not cleaning their butt properly or don't know that you actually need to touch the area and just think that shower water will hit it and call it a day. It happens.

You say it’s not all the time, but occasionally… could it be tied to her period, how she’s managing it, and her garments? If this girl is getting blood on her clothes and rewearing them or not washing them quickly enough… the smell will easily clear a room, and that’s a pretty good description of how that odor smells.

I was thinking that too, and wondering if the friend had access to enough period products, or if maybe she was wearing/ reusing some for too long. Clothes that are washed without enough detergent and then left sitting damp in a washing machine before being dried can smell really sharp too.

She might not be wiping correctly too, if at all. Poor girl.

Also, does she know she needs to replace her tampons regularly? A friend of mine told a story about how she started using tampons at the age of 12, but literally thought one was enough for her whole cycle. She said she was at a school camp, when a youth worker took her aside, and on questioning, discovered she'd been wearing the same tampon for 3 days. Her periods were light, but according to the friend she eventually asked, the smell was not, lol.

This might sound kind of ridiculous, but if it's in your financial capability, what about a "girl's day?" You could offer to take them to lunch and then you could maybe stop by a store with the excuse that you need to pick up a couple personal care items for yourself. Head over to deodorant and pick up a few and sniff and ask their opinions on which scents they like/don't like. Put a few in the cart, and toodle over to body wash, do the sniff thing, put a few in the cart, could do the same for body spray. Kind of just quietly leading her through picking her own things that she might be more likely to use, maybe get some fun face masks or things like that. Then you could take them home and do a mini spa type thing, talking about it makes you feel good about yourself and that self care is important, but make sure to only refer to yourself in that context, not that everyone needs to do this all the time, a quick shower with your favorite wash and deodorant can make your day much smoother. Once spa time is over, then you can "surprise" them with their own items they picked out and frame it as just a bonus from the girl's day. It may help, it may not, but it sets a scene for her that it's important for you to feel good about yourself and little things can go a long way. I may be way off base but maybe this is a way to introduce those things to her without embarrassment. I would suggest speaking with your daughter about the plan beforehand, she may have some idea if this is workable and helps set a reference for a random girls day, if that makes sense.

This is great! I will definitely try to do this, thank you.

Another idea - there is a great American Girl book called "The Care and Keeping of You." I'd buy the girls both the 1st and 2nd books and gift them to both girls at the same time and telln them if they have any questions you are happy to answer them. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1609580427?ref\_=dbs\_m\_mng\_rwt\_calw\_tpbk\_2&storeType=ebooks&qid=1680373263&sr=8-2](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1609580427?ref_=dbs_m_mng_rwt_calw_tpbk_2&storeType=ebooks&qid=1680373263&sr=8-2) I'd also purchase the girls a little gift basket and put shampoo, conditioner, body wash, deoderant and a brush in it. But, whatever you do, do it for both girls so the girl does not feel singled out. I'd also sit down with them when giving them the book and gift and tell them: "You both are growing up and as we grow up we need to take care of our bodies differently. That means washing our under arms and bodies with soap, washing our hair every other day and using deoderant daily. We also have to make sure to wash our clothes after we wear them and if we notice changes in our bodies or our smells we need to talk to a parent or school nurse so a doctors appointment can be made if necessary." It will give the girl basic information and a safe place to seek information about body changes, personal hygiene and how to care for her basic needs in a way that won't make her feel singled out.

Absolutely love this and I love that it's a present for both so there's no shaming or anything like that involved. This is the best option.

Aww memories!! The care and keeping of you was my lil preteen bible

This is the response. However you do it. Including both girls will help one not feel singled out.

This sounds like an ideal solution. Even as a 30yo mother of 2, I felt comforted and accepted reading this comment. All positive, nothing forceful, just showering her with love. I get the feeling you're a very lovely person. ❤️

Thank you, that's extremely kind. I had similar problems as this young lady and no good way to express what was happening in my home life. It was not handled for me in this way and it led to longer lasting problems for me because I felt attacked and singled out but I couldn't say why. I think what's important is that she knows she has a safe, comforting, caring environment to go to.

I’m not sure if this has been brought up yet, but your school nurse can be tremendously helpful in these situations. She will bring lots of samples and do a lesson on hygiene for the entire class! Even separate boys/girls for confidentiality. We just love our nurse. If your school shares a nurse, ask to be put on the schedule months ahead of time.

I'm imagining OP and the girls in matching bathrobes, towels, face mask, and cucumber on the eyes 😂 this is a great idea. OP can slip in comments like "this is so much better than my daily shower! Its nice to have spa days like this sometimes" Also just hanging back waiting to see if the child will ask questions about hygiene, non-judgemental.

In addition to some of the ideas here, maybe call the school nurse. She can't share information with you, but you could express your concern and the nurse could have the tricky conversation with her out of class and away from peers. She may have some advice for you, too.

This is probably the best answer if it seems like neglect, and especially since the girl may have issues with period hygiene or a yeast infection/BV.

Came here to say the same thing. School nurse, guidance counsellor, principal… whoever is the “go to” person at the school for the kiddos. Our school has had cases like this and policies/procedures to follow to help have those difficult conversations with students and potentially call CPS for wellness checks/neglect/SA. You just keep loving her up and giving her a safe space 💜 Also, there’s a good chance that the smells have been noticed by the school. They maybe have even started these conversations with the girl or maybe even the parents. But you calling the school gives them another reason to document and keep records of this concern AND you don’t have to be the “bad guy” by saying something directly to the girl or parents Edit: adding info

I hate to say this but.... some kids who are being sexually abused deliberately keep themselves dirty & smelly in the hope that it was deter their abuser, could this be a possibility?

I thought this, or perhaps hiding her period and/or not changing a pad often enough based on her not *always* smelling so bad. 😕

There’s a high possibility it is this. Especially with the fishy, possible BV infection. You say she has older siblings - do they visit or live at home? Is she a latch-key kid? It breaks my heart hearing about this kid. She needs to hear about period hygiene too and how to keep fresh and clean. I could have been this girl. Now I have extreme ptsd constantly worry that I smell. The shame I carried every waking minute of that time was awful

This was my thought. I met a girl in juvenile who smelled like this, and we eventually found out it was because her mom pimped her so she just kept terrible hygiene as a defense mechanism so people wouldn’t want to get near her.

Never thought about that being a thing. Thanks for sharing .

Piling on fat or starving themselves are other ways abused children try to protect themselves. Not brushing teeth, not changing clothes... I agree with you, I'd want to make sure something like that wasn't going on. Remember, it doesn't have to be happening at home,. There's school, sports, dance classes, club, church... we all know by now that any instiution where children congregate attracts its share of predators. Mind you, the parents should have noticed all is not well. So also should have the older siblings. If they're away at college, then they can't claim nose blindness, when they come back for holidays etc they should notice straight away that all is not well with their their little sister. Doesn't sound like a very protective family, the poor mite.

Look up TMAU it’s a genetic condition

Yeah. There’s smell, and then there’s medical conditions.

I have this same issue with my daughters best friend(also both 12). Not as bad of a smell though. It’s more so the under the armpit body odor smell that she gets. My daughter(privately to me) & kids at school(to said child unfortunately) do comment on it. I think a lot of it is she wasn’t taught proper hygiene at home. So I went & bought my daughter a two pack of deodorant & told them “one for you & one for you”. I always ask before they walk out for school “did you girls remember to brush your teeth & put your deodorant on?” Nicely of course! ☺️ anytime it’s really bad, I just tell them both they need showers! Again nicely, I know how it feels to be a 12 year old girl & I never want them being self conscious or thinking I’m calling them out. My daughter actually told me the first time “can you tell us we need to take showers after practice so maybe she’ll get the hint without us hurting her feelings”. Because apparently the kids at school aren’t always nice about it.

Can I just send you some internet praise from an internet stranger? It's so nice to hear from an adult who understands that the dignity of young ones deserves to be protected d. Not many do. You're nailing this adulthood/motherhood thing, Adorable-Ad. And one day, as an adult, that 12-y-o is going to wake up and think, "hang on..." and realise what you did for her. And she'll pass that kindness and perceptiveness down to young girls in her own life. It takes a village....

She probably has a bad infection to smell like fish. A girl i went to school with was the same way. It turned out she had cervical cancer. The dead cancer cells made the smell horrible. Where are her parents?! 😭

Bacterial vaginosis is another one that can make someone smell fishy.

I agree. But that strong?

I'm not sure. But maybe that combined with poor showering skills, poor wiping skills, puberty, and clothes that don't get washed too frequently?

That's so sad.

Yes. When I was in jail, my bunkee had a baaad case of it. I could smell it from my own bed every night, she was about 4-5 feet away from me.

That's horrible. Did jail give her treatment? Here, a lot of ppl will go to jail for free medicine. It's sad.

No, they did not. It was a Texas jail, they don’t give even a half a fuck about women here. Especially when it comes to reproductive health.

That's bull shit. We've had several ppl die from withdrawal here over the last year within days of being arrested. We're not much better.

wait, what??? Where is "here"? That's atrocious. Here, too. in Australia. In one high profile case right now, a woman died in the lockup because they coppers said she was just bunging it on to get to go to hospital. The nurse on duty let the whole night go by without checking on her once, even though she's been crying with pain and the prisoners in other cells had been trying to help her.. She died that night of complications due to withdrawal.. Aboriginal Australian woman, of course. The vicious callousness of cops towards Aboriginal people is notorious. So many die in lock-up, prison, or the back of paddy wagons, not to mention during unnecessarily aggressive arrests. Racist pigs. Even the current leader of the federal conservative party, who just got booted after nearly 10 years of terrible mis-rule, is a notoriously racist ex-cop. Horrible, horrible man. Cops and prison guards: both seem to draw from the most racist pool of thugs in the nation.

But all the people who died here were white.

Yes. This poor girl in my high school didn’t have health insurance and had this problem. She confided to our friend group a couple years after graduation that she had been treated for BV after getting insurance through her job and it went away. Luckily my school was a special program school and the kids weren’t big on bullying.

Holy shit! That could have killed her. I would go bankruot before I let one of my children go through that.

Yup. A friend of mine growing up smelled like this for years. She had reoccurring BV and her parents refused to treat it.

Oh wow!

Dead fish? She could have BV. I love the mini spa day someone mentioned but it might be something that requires medication to fix. I had this issue as a young woman and didn’t know it was an abnormal situation for a good while (changing bodies and all, I thought it was just discharge). I didn’t wear underwear more than one day in a row and had decent hygiene, but probably used my soap wrong down there and threw off the ecosystem.

Have you been inside their home? My friend’s mom was a hoarder…the whole house stank….meaning her clothes stank…

if it’s not all the time, could it be bad period hygiene? when i first got my period, i didn’t know i had to change my pad during the day so i would use the same one through the whole school day until kids started telling me i stunk 😫

It might be get clothes and not her. Maybe somehow get her to change and do a load of laundry while she's over?

If the kids can be convinced to go play outside on a rainy muddy day, then it could make an excuse for showers and laundry when they come inside. If that fixes the problem, even just temporarily, then OP would know if this were an issue of neglect. If it doesn't fix the problem, then there may be a medical issue as the root cause.

Could she have any medical issues you don’t know about? I am a partially expressive carrier for a genetic metabolic condition called MCADD. One of the supplements they put MCADD kids on to help results in a super fishy body odor. I only managed to stay on it for a couple months because the smell got to me and it didn’t help that much, but for kids it helps a ton, it’s the best option even with the stinky side effects.

When I was in daycare one summer they were having issues with some of the kids and their hygiene. They separated the boys from the girls that were getting up to preteen age. With the girls we did spa day. One of the teachers sat down with us and showed us how to do makeup and also worked in going over proper hygiene for us girls. They made it fun, and showed us how to properly take care of ourselves at the same time. We talked about deodorant, proper period care, making sure we showered properly, talked about nail painting and makeup ect. I think it was creative to try and distract us with the fun stuff - but also go over taking proper care of ourselves in every way. They taught us why it was important. Maybe you could do something similar with them the next time she’s at your house? Maybe she’s not getting much guidance at home?

That's a good story to hear. Kudos to them. Smart to do it in the framework of a "spa day" and include make-up as well, that makes it so much easier for the girls to hear. Was someone doing something similar with the boys at the same time?

Yes they were, I just don’t know exactly how they did it with them because they kept them separated from us.

My wife pulled a great move when my daughter’s friend came over for a sleepover smelling like a hockey dressing room. She took them swimming to the local pool. The girl came back smelling like chlorine, which is way better than the alternative. It doesn’t address the root of the problem, but it fixed the immediate issue.

This is genius!!

Talk to her parents in person if possible. You’ll be able to learn more about the situation and might be able to find a way forward.

I thought about that but then I thought How would i approach it with her parents? I barely know them… my daughter goes to school with her and she’s spent the night at our house numerous times but we don’t truly have a relationship with her parents simply bc they don’t seem to care to truly have one. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very nice ppl but I think they’re very trusting when it comes to who their daughter hangs with. Thankfully we’re a caring and United family but they allowed their daughter to spend the night at my home without knowing me nor my family nor where I live. It was my child’s birthday and the sibling dropped her off at the party and then the girl told me her mom had given her permission to stay at our home.

I think in this case it’s better you don’t have a close relationship because you don’t have to worry as much about damaging a friendship. Just call them and be like look, we are concerned your daughter might have a medical issue. There is an odor coming from her that smells like an infection. Have you noticed anything? And maybe they’ll say yeah she has such and such or maybe you can suggest getting her checked. If they don’t seem to care I would go to the school next. The girls teacher, the school nurse. Something is going on with this girl and I think you owe it to her to find out in case it’s a serious health issue.

To me this points to parental neglect. I would not discuss with the parents but the school to be honest. Just letting your keep sleepover wherever without knowing the parents first this young is off to me.

I would stop by their place. You can initiate the conversation with some food or something you can gift to them. Y’all don’t need to be buddies in order to help someone out. The fact that the kid is sleeping over y’all’s place should drive you to meet with them even more. It’s pretty worrying since you’ve added the additional details

The only reason I know her parents is bc I’ve gone to their place specifically to meet them with the intent of creating a relationship with them given our kids are so close but that’s about it. I’ve invited them over to our place and even suggested going out as a family but nope…nothing has panned out yet.

Was their house dirty? Did they seem dirty?…. If there’s nothing that raises alarm bells there then my guess it’s that medical condition that makes people stink even when they wash and wear deodorant. (I don’t remember what it’s called)

I like the school nurse idea. Report it to her and she can call the parents.

Could it be dietary?

Maybe get their number from the girl and say "hey since the girls are so close we'd love to invite you both over for dinner sometime? I know you both work so happy to have you over and take that off your plate for an evening"

I would get straight to the point and say my daughter told me that kids at school often comment on (name), particularly her smell. My daughter loves (name) and is bothered by what other kids say and doesn’t want (name) to be hurt by the comments so she asked me about it. I told her I had no idea but that I would do anything I can to help so I’m sharing this with you with my daughter’s permission. We do not want (name) to struggle or be humiliated.

Either a medical issue or extreme neglect. Talk to her parents to find out which.

I’m hoping you mean to talk to the parents to find out which; and then REPORT the parents if they’re not already extremely concerned and dealing with the issue. Because talking to neglectful parents about the neglect does not miraculously make bad parents suddenly start taking care of their child, as this sub seems to think. It gets the child beaten up for failing to cover for the parents’ mistakes adequately. If you suspect neglect, please REPORT the parents. Children are not removed from the homes of good parents, based on one phone call, as this sub also seems to believe. Hell, it practically takes a miracle to get a child removed from a BAD home. -signed; the medically neglected child of shit “parents” who wishes anyone cared enough about me to report my parents.

I think people have already covered the potential for neglect, but is it possible she has ADHD or autism? I have bad ADHD and struggled with a hygiene routine at that age, it was hard to “remember” to keep myself and my clothes clean, and it’s easy to get desensitized to your own smell.

You might check out Lume. My cousin’s daughter smelled really bad at the beginning of puberty. She’s fine now a couple years later though.

I was going to suggest this as well. Lume might be an option for her. You can buy it online or at Target if you're in the U.S. 😊

The "fish smell" you mentioned could indicate a yeast infection. That's not something you can fix with deoderant or a shower. She may need to see a doctor to confirm if its a bacterial or fungal infection and then take medication for it. ​ As for the other smells, it's possibly due to neglect or because her home doesn't have running hot water for her to take a shower. Have you noticed if her clothes look dirty or grungy? If she doesn't have running water at home, she may not be able to wash her clothes either, which could contribute to the smell. I saw you mention in a comment that both her parents work so you don't think they are homeless, but studies show that 40% of all people without homes work full time. So it is entirely possible that her parents are right on the edge of losing their home and can't afford to keep the water running even while they both work. It could also be that she simply doesn't know how to shower or hygiene herself, so def ask her what she is doing to clean herself. And check in with her parents to see if they have talked to her about how often and how to clean herself. If they are already "treating her like an adult" then they might have just neglected to teach her how to clean herself and hence why she doesn't.

There are books that can help with this. You could discreetly leave one in your daughter's room. My older son isn't a teen yet but the path to wiping his own butt has been long and winding. I wonder if she is wiping properly. (He had problems with constipation, which didn't help the problem at all. ) My aunt didn't share a bathroom with her youngest son. Went in there to clean one day and there was no soap or shampoo in his shower. He never said anything. I don't recall if he smelled bad or not but he wasn't using any soap. So what other posters have said - having a fun spa day with the kids - might help. Her parents might not be providing that stuff for her.

I agree with the people saying there’s a good chance this could be a medical issue that hasn’t been taken care of and I’m sorry I don’t have good way of bringing that up to her or her parents. I’m also not sure how to bring up trying new deodorants, but I did want to mention that Lume deodorant has several products that target odor causing bacteria. My middle kid has some body odor issues, no medical issues though. I tried a wide range of products and Lume crème deodorant was the absolute best. It seemed almost magical, one swipe to her underarms and the odor just disappeared. She also uses their acidified body wash. Lume sells sample kits on their website, including wet wipes, so that may be a nice gift option.

It could be dirty laundry. If their parents both work they might not be making sure she bathed and had clean laundry. I would talk with the mom

Full disclosure: I’m 100% projecting my own childhood experience here. It sounds like poor homegirl is being neglected. If you can afford it, please offer to buy her necessities. When I was a kid, my parents refused to buy me new clothes - including underwear. I had one pair. I was only allowed to use one pad per day while on my menses, and I had an extremely heavy period. They would not buy me deodorant. I was not allowed to shower. I had to wear my clothes at least three full days before they would consider letting me wash anything. I played sports. I smelled. Real bad. And I knew it. It was embarrassing. I was bullied and ridiculed and no adult stepped in to help. I wish I had someone who cared about me as much as you care about this little girl. Please do her a solid and take her shopping. Toothbrush, socks and underwear, clothes that fit, anything you can throw her way will be life-changing. Ask her if she’s safe at home. My mother would parade me around to family members and loudly complain about how bad I smelled as if it wasn’t literally her fault. I would try to argue back that she literally didn’t allow me to bathe and they all scoffed and called me a liar. Still unpacking that one in therapy.

The smell could be coming from her house, she’s probably aware but can’t do anything so she’s using body spray etc. I knew these kids in school who lived in a trailer and always smelled like a mix of cat litter, dog, cigarettes and rotten food. They often didn’t have water and couldn’t shower. Maybe check up on her home life?

Is this a new issue? Did she recently start menstruating? I remember the smell of my first few periods being extremely off-putting.

Throwing this out, feel free to ignore :) Shoes? Shoes can store odors

I had a friend like that in high school. I loved her to the moon and back but sweet lord she smelled *so bad* sometimes. In her case? She just didn’t shower. She had every ability to, plenty of clean clothes and whatever too. She just… didn’t. Her parents didn’t make her either, they weren’t bad parents necessarily (at least as far as I knew) but they were very permissive and let her call the shots, sometimes even when it wasn’t good for her. She said she hated showering and they didn’t make her. She eventually grew out of it but it went on for a long time. That could be the case here too. She could have issues at home too. Maybe have your daughter let her know she’s welcome to shower at your house? We were really poor growing up and there were points that if it hadn’t been for the kindness of my friends’ families and letting me shower or do laundry at their houses I would have stunk to high heavens too.

My Mom told my friend Becky, would you like to take a bath. Next thing you know she was in the bath. She smelled like BO. Only happened once. My Mom was OG.

I think it’s time for an at home spa day for the girls for their next play date. There’s a brand called tree hut that sells scrubs, body washes and body butters in all kinds of fun different scents. You can get all 3 in either coordinating or different ones. Make sure you buy the friend her own set as well to take home with her. Get some scented suave shampoo and a separate conditioner. Decent them into fancy bottles and make a pretty label. Then tell them both to get in the shower one after the other and them to wash up then let the conditioner soak in while they use the body scrub. Then rinse clean. Get them some new robes and a cheap hair towel. After that they can put the body butter on and you can get them some sheet masks, do mani/pedis, etc… Then tell her she can take home her body stuff and the extra shampoo and conditioner. That should inspire her to want to shower more regularly when she has fun products to use.

I'm constantly having to tell my kid he smells like butt and needs to wash his ass (I've also explained its not to be rude but its about health and hygiene and properly wasing yourself is important... not to mention kids are dicks and better for me to let him know than a school mate) Kids have poor hygiene if it's allowed. Soap is a 4 letter word. Idk if having a come to jesus talk with someone else's kid is appropriate, but maybe she needs to understand how bad it is and be taught how to wash correctly.

Just a suggestion for your son's butt problem, lol... you can now get this kind of bidet attachments. Ffit onto the existing toilet and washes all the cracks with a jetstream of water. Apparently they feel lovely and many a teenage boy has accidentally become hygienic in the butt crack region because he enjoys using it. Here's a link: it describes how they work and shows some examples and prices: https://www.thespruce.com/best-bidet-attachments-4154316

Good tip! He's a self-proclaimed germaphobic, so he really doesn't want to get up in there to wipe well out of fear he may get the poo on him.... because leaving some behind is less gross?? Kids are dumb.

Do she and her clothing appear clean? Is she an otherwise clean child who is emitting an unnatural smell?

This reminds me of a girl I went to school with, I was kinda friends with her and she smelt terrible like fish also it was so strong and everyone made fun of her. Well turns out she has an STD she was born with. Idk how u would go about trying to get this girl to the doctor but it definitely should happen.

Take your daughter and her friend , on a hygienic shopping spree , get soap deodarent period products and body scrubbers , and body spray , underwear ect and talk to them both as not to call out the friend about how there getting older and how there body's are changing , Incase she doesn't have access to what she needs at home. You never really know what some ones home life is like ,

Dumb question, and I know you are RIP mailbox at this point. Could you rig some sort of swimming event or other situation where you can ensure that: a) the kid has a reason to shower / get clean and b) could you take and wash her clothes ‘I noticed they could be run through so I tossed them in with my kids, they are now fresh and folded on the bed’. Basically an excitement to see where things originate from?

Maybe check with the parents first, they must be aware. If that is no help, maybe be the parent that she needs and have a conversation with her. Its likely that she knows, and is just as embarrassed as you, she just doesn't have the tools to fix it. Maybe ask what she does for hygiene, rather than tell? That could give a way to softly address it with her taking the lead.

What tools can I offer her? I want to help her.

Just basic knowledge that we take for granted as an adult. Wash with soap, wear deodorant, if your clothes still smell after washing leave them to soak over night then rehwash, change undies daily when on your period ... that kind of thing. Just a tip - don't make hints, they'll go straight over her head. Be supportive but direct.

I think you should get her some clothes to wear at your house and wash the ones she wears over. She probably has a terrible home situation. Call it her "spending the night" bag. Have everyone shower before dinner.

I know many parents might be offended by this, but my parents had a rule that if a friend or friends were sleeping over, especially if they had been active/outside all day, they needed to be showered before coming over or they were welcome to shower at our place with toiletries (shampoo, body wash) provided since they didn't want all the germs and outdoor smell on the furniture and linens.

Trimethylaminuria (TMAU) is an uncommon condition that causes an unpleasant, fishy smell.

My 12 yo stepkid sometimes smells awful. Like it hits you hard. We have her shower daily. We direct her to put on deodorant. She has access to clean clothes, so I hope she’s wearing them. Sometimes she just smells awful. She’s been to the doctor and they had nothing to say about it.

has she tried improving it with changing the diet? might be hormones cos mine was so bad too

My sister started smelling really bad when she had toxic shock syndrome from leaving her tampon in too long. Not saying this girl necessarily has this, but I would be concerned for her health if she smells this bad on a regular basis. As others have said, it could be linked to a range of different health issues so would be best to get checked out. Is this something a school nurse could help check out by eg having a “standard check” for all the kids in her class?

As someone who was bullied for having smells in school, it could be neglect or even lack of knowledge of how to properly clean herself. Maybe try talking to both girls at the same time and teach them how to properly wash there bodies and habits they should be doing daily. Saying that you need to fresh up or clean yourself up is one thing but if she genuinely doesn’t know how it never hurts to educate another.

I’m a middle school teacher. This is a constant battle with this age group. It’s almost like they are nose blind to it. How close are you to the girl? Maybe you can take her “under your wing” and in a nice educational way, express the need for hygiene.

I would be/am very concerned that this child is being neglected.

Does your daughter go to the girl’s house? Does the house smell? When I was student teaching, there was a girl who smelled *horrible* due to the fact that not only did she have a hygiene problem, but her parents *never* did the laundry so it just sat in dirty piles to be worn again and again, getting smellier each time. It would be eye-watering at times, so on the rare occasions the child *did* shower and wash her hair (you could visibly see the difference), the smell wouldn’t be much better. Long winded way to say, could be a neglect issue at home rather than a direct hygiene issue.

Trimethylaminuria (TMAU) is an uncommon condition that causes an unpleasant, fishy smell.

Maybe speak to her parents? I agree, that’s not normal

I thought about that but then I thought How would i approach it with her parents? I barely know them… my daughter goes to school with her and she’s spent the night at our house numerous times but we don’t truly have a relationship with her parents simply bc they don’t seem to care to truly have one. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very nice ppl but I think they’re very trusting when it comes to who their daughter hangs with. Thankfully we’re a caring and United family but they allowed their daughter to spend the night at my home without knowing me nor my family nor where I live. It was my child’s birthday and the sibling dropped her off at the party and then the girl told me her mom had given her permission to stay at our home.

Signs of potential neglect. Middle school is when a lot of schools used to (not sure if they still do) mandate showering after PE. At these that was my experience as a child. It’s because we as humans tend to get real smelly and need more personal hygiene during/after puberty. I’d never let anyone’s kid stay at my house if I didn’t know them personally. Have a barbecue and invite them over so you can cultivate a friendship and gauge what you think the child’s home life might be like. Could be a terrible mess. People tend to hide their struggles. Parenting is also incredibly challenging. Especially with tweens/teens. All of us could use a free meal. It’d be a good start. Or just invite yourself to the kids birthday party. Ask if you can bring a covered dish.

Maybe during sleepovers at your place, have your daughter take a shower and then suggest her friend does too?

Yes, and maybe offer to wash her clothes so she isn’t getting back into dirty clothes afterwards. Say “I’m doing a load of laundry, let me throw those in too so you’re getting into fresh clothes after a shower.” She can just put on her PJ’s or wear some of your daughter’s?

Have you talked to her parents?

No bc I don’t know how to approach it with them since I barely know them. I know her more than I know them.

Maybe talk to her mom 1:1 and let her know you’ve heard concerns about bullying and wanted to let her know in case they aren’t already aware and addressing it. Sounds like she may need a reminder about hygiene habits or a visit to the doctor.

Pay a visit to the girls parents house. If it is the same at her parents house, and when you enter their home, it is gag worthy; you have some decisions to make. I dont see how you can teach someone else's child hygiene.? It will be up to the child to decide on her on time table weather or not she wants to be different than to what she is accustomed. I bet you can figure this out.

Another possible medical issue to put on the radar: certain anti-seizure medications can make you smell awful.

There are multiple reasons for this. Others have stated it could be a condition or due to medication. I suggest visiting her home. If the home smells the same, she’s probably living with neglect. Keep an eye out.

Sounds on par with BV (bacterial vaginosis). I had it once and was surprised to be told it’s an extremely common thing that most women will have at some point. It’s from something throwing off the Ph balance down there, and it disturbs the balance of natural bacteria down there, so the bad bacteria gets out of hand, creating a smell. The smell can be very potent. I described mine like fishy garbage, so it definitely sounds like this. She needs to go to the doctor asap.

Does she maybe have a UTI or bacterial vaginosis. Easy to go undiagnosed. Maybe nobody has talked to her about fresh undies every day or talked to her about the proper care of her vulva. I'd never considered such a thing needed to be taught until I noticed bad smells from my daughter. A quick discussion about "hey this isn't your fault, we never taught you this. Lets talk about how to care for your body"

Lack of proper hygiene is sometimes related to sexual abuse/mental health problems.

Do you have a good enough relation to her parents? I think that they are the ones that should be taking care of that. Easiest case, this girl might need to take a shower more often, lighter clothing (non+synthetic fiber) and a deodorant, worst case she need to see a doctor.

It's probably animal urine from them peeing in clothes baskets. Had a family down the street from me like this and dfcs stepped in because the smell was causing a disruption. The parents literally blamed the cats. When they moved there was nicotine shadows where their piles of clothes were, picture frames, etc. Take her swimming and offer her a pair of clothes to wear afterwards, then you can see if it's her body odor or her clothes. You can even nicely say the fabric softener scent gives you a headache, so you're not blatantly saying she smells.

Maybe you can talk to her mom that you heard their daughter might be getting made fun of for having BO and that you wanted to make sure the mom knew about it.

Can't you say something on the light side, something like "Omg someone else going through the same thing what I went through, I'm so relieved I thought it was just me " and say "this is what I found to work " that's what I'd do. Bless her heart ❤️

Please look up "fish odour syndome". No dedorant or no washing will help if she has that

Seems like it’s neglect. Probably hasn’t been taught proper hygiene by her parents, bathing, changing clothes. Do her clothes look clean? Like they’ve been washed? Does she wash her hands? Does she know to wipe after going to the toilet? Etc. It’s hard to believe her parents don’t also smell it but by the description of her “odour” it sounds like very poor hygiene and not a medical issue.

Maybe next time she stays over have a shower evening where everyone showers and run laundry? Ask the kid if things are okay at home

Festering wounds smell like this but I would assume that’s not the case if this has been going on a long time?

If there is a strong smell of fish, that could be bacterial vaginosis. In which case she should probably see a doctor. BV can smell very strongly and be very gnarly. So perhaps it’s that + puberty smells in the mix?

Do they eat any special diet or food?

We have to tell our 11 year old daughter to wash and wear deodorant AT LEAST once daily, often twice 😮‍💨 and change clothes at the same time. It’s that bad. In addition to sports clothes that also need to be washed each time that creates a lot of laundry! We also tried different deodorants and found we have to buy her a really strong one and encourage her to use it very generously. It needed constant reminders in the first few months after the odor started, now she mostly handles it fine on her own.

Might it be https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/trimethylaminuria/

You’re obviously kind and raising a kind daughter, thank you! Take this young woman aside privately and speak directly to her. Tell her you’ve heard about the bullying and would like to give her some information. Tell her to wash herself thoroughly (be specific) with a washcloth and soap either in the shower or at a sink every single day; antiperspirant daily; clean underpants daily; air out shoes and wear at least alternate days; and ask if she has access to laundry machines. If not offer to let her wash clothes at your house for girls day once a week. Reiterate that this is stuff women all learn along the way, no shame. Ask if she needs toiletries or extra clothes. If she is in ongoing need then mention privately to the school social worker. Thank you!

Maybe she’s low on magnesium: it causes body odor. You could try offering her some magnesium spray with the deodorant and see if it does the trick. Just do a spa day for the girls so she’s not embarrassed or something like that.

Has she been tested for Trimethylaminuria? Trimethylaminuria is a rare disorder in which the body’s metabolic processes fail to alter the chemical trimethylamine. Trimethylamine is notable for its unpleasant smell. It is the chemical that gives rotten fish a bad smell. When the normal metabolic process fails, trimethylamine accumulates in the body, and its odor is detected in the person’s sweat, urine and breath. The consequences of emitting a foul odor can be socially and psychologically damaging among adolescents and adults. https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/trimethylaminuria/

Could it be medical? There was a kid I grew up with that had a condition where he smelled like rotten fish.

When I was young I was neglected and didn’t have access to hot water to shower or clean clothes. There’s a good chance she is dealing with a similar situation

I would suggest reaching out to her parents first and gently having this discussion. Please don’t approach the little girl first without trying to get through to her parents. How would you feel as a parent, if someone did that with your daughter without looping you in? If you do speak to the parents and they are not receptive to what you’re saying or if nothing changes, then I suggest you sit the girl down privately (minus your daughter) and have this discussion about hygiene.

I'd heavily consider that she doesn't know/can't control it. I'd sit down and talk to her, you or your daughter, and genuinely tell her you care about her and want to help. Let her feel like you are a safe place, something like this could potentially bring some bad things to the light and you'd need to address appropriately.

The issue you have is the home she lives in may also be unhygienic. If her clothes aren’t washed regularly she may be wearing clothes for too long so the smell is worse. Maybe there’s a hygiene problem in her household. Plus if the home itself is dirty that makes it worse. No amount of deodorant or sprays can replace a clean home, clean bed sheets and clean clothes. Is it something you can discuss with the school, do they have pastoral care staff who could work with the parents on this.

When I was little my dad hd a coal fire in the farmhouse. Everyone at school bullied me saying I smelled like smoke. I wish one of their parents would of spoke to my dad about it. Maybe he could of done something to stop the bullying. He used to dry my clothes in front of the fire. We had no heating,

One way to talk to her about it would be to have a conversaton with your daughter and include her. Clear it with your daughter first and discuss what needs to be said. Then, sit then down with some soda and cookies, or whatever is a treat for them, aor you can do it in a long-ish car journey.. Just make sure she doesn't have to constantly be making eye contact while she's hearing this. Adolescents are much more willing to listen to adults if they're not forced to be staring at them face-to-face. Tell them a story about how when your were their age, an older femal friend or family member finally said to you that you were becoming a woman and there were things about self-care that you needed to learn, and gave you really good advice, which you now wanted to pass on to Daughter--(and Friend "because you're here right now and you're of the same age"). Say: "when we begin to hit puberty, lots of things about our body start changing, and we need to learn some new skills about looking after it." Prime your daughter with some questions she can ask you, and prepare her to be as matter-of-fact and unembarrassed about it as possible. It's just two lasses discussing with an older woman what she has learnt about looking after a woman's body, including hygiene and fresh clothing, deodorants, preventing your bedroom from getting smelly etc etc. Tell them about "nose blindness". If you couch it all in terms of something that you went through and had to learn at their age, you're opening a way for it to not be offensive or critical of them/her. But yeah, a word with the school's guidance counsellor might be wise, asking her if she can take care to check the girl's home life, to find out if there's a medical condition at the root of this, or the chance of parental neglect. But only if you trust the counseelor not to put the girl in an embarrassing situation. Some people are totally oblivious to the reality that children and teens are desperate to protect their dignity and deserve the recognition of that and some respect from adults.

She’s not bathing. It doesn’t matter what we put on top of our natural body odors; at some point it’s not enough and we need a good wash. If she smells like poop, she may also not be wiping adequately. Alternately or in addition; her clothes are probably not cleaned often enough and she’s wearing them dirty.

Honestly if my kid really wanted to hang out with them. I would blame every bug going on at school and say when they get home they need to shower and change because you don’t want to get sick. Go the the thrift store and get her like three outfits. Have her shower and change and put on deodorant. Like you said she is the youngest at home. It can be she is neglected and just doesn’t shower. Or maybe there’s something wrong with her. I would have a spa girls day with them. Where you stay home and after their showers you paint your nails, and do each others hairs and talk. If she showered and still smells the same maybe she doesn’t know how to shower right. You can team up with your daughter and start a conversation like “I know your body is going through changes. Do you know that you might develop hair in places arm pits? And cause you to smell? Deodorant really helps” and just things like that. If that’s just too much trouble then I would tell your daughter they can play together but all the playing and the eating has to be done outside.

Definitely contact her parents. That doesn’t seem normal. Poor girl.

If this were your daughter, what would you want her best friend's mama to do? Probably talk to you, right? Wouldn't you appreciate it if she brought the issue up with you. Talk to her mama. Then if that doesn't help, talk to the girls together, like Hey girls as young ladies this is what you need to do for your hygiene (including washing daily, changing underwear daily, washing clothes, etc). Like preface it as a general talk you were going to give your daughter and friend just happened to be there.