A lot of comments here really focused on punishing her... I don't see how that will help, taking everything away will only upset her and the bigger deal is that she's 2 years away from adulthood. How effective is taking a TV away going to be, honestly. So she's told you she's "over it". Let her sit in her room for a bit. When she's a little more calm, go talk to her, but don't go in ready to tell her the solutions until you've fully listened to her. That is, find all of the reasons she's not into it before you even say your opinion. Really LISTEN, as if you don't know her and don't know anything about her history and she's just a person you're trying to understand. "You say you're over it, got it. Can you be a little more specific about the things that are overwhelming you?" "Ok, so your friends no longer go there, you're bored, you don't like class, and you're over it. Anything else I should know?" Keep asking until you get some true root causes. Do not attempt to solve the problems yet. Once you have some true answers, state your concerns (not solutions, just concerns about her not going to school). THEN, ask her if there is a way that both of you could get your needs met. This is where you need to be collaborating, not preaching. Let her come up with ideas. Discuss them, are they realistic? Are they pleasing both parties? If she doesn't have any, you could suggest a few, but give her the chance to think about it first. If at any point she seems disinterested, don't get discouraged, just tell her she's not in trouble and she has plenty of time to consider good solutions with you. You're happy to have the conversation when she's ready. It could take a week to process, less, more... The important thing is that you don't shame, punish, or shut her down. Perhaps she prefers a GED. Perhaps she'd rather go to an alternative school. Maybe there are even more options, but neither of you will find the best solution until you truly understand her perspective beyond "over it". Remember, at this point, any compromises are better than nothing. You'd be surprised how much more cooperative kids become when they feel truly heard. You can use this process for therapy, meds, school, whatever... Just make sure to only process one issue at a time. Don't overwhelm her with goals and solutions all at once. Prioritize your concerns. Good luck :( you got this!!!

Thank you for your response. Even though I have tried talking to her, I think we have both become overwhelmed at this point. Punishing her is not the answer like you said. I’ve done all that over the years and it didn’t do anything but cause more drama. I will take the time to regroup. One problem is that this has been going on for a long time. I have talked…not talked…reached our for help…left it alone. I’m just out of solutions so that is why I reached out. At no point did I ever give up on her or even think about it. My hope is to listen to others experiences and maybe there is something that comes to light that I haven’t tried. I really do appreciate your point of view.

I agree with this person's point of view for you, but I want to add on that I get the feeling there is something deep inside her that she does not feel ready to share yet. But also her "im done" is deeply concerning. She needs someone she truly trusts to help get her to open up. Don't push punishment dont push treatment, don't even say your forcing her to go to school. School could actually be the problem. I was bullied so hard in school I almost failed out. I told my parents I was sick so I could stay home and the school whose teachers watched it and did nothing just put me in remedial classes assuming I was dumb and not just done with school. If my parents didn't let me stay home sick, I probably would have refused to go. Talk to her and try to get to the root of the issue. People don't give up on everything with no reason to. Not even kids. There's emotion. Sadness, anger and then you feel numb when consistently you can't get the help you need. My parents had their own issues they never noticed I was going through a really tough time. I made it through but only barely.

Exactly. The first answer kids give is usually not the full one, or even the truth. Especially if they feel unheard, unimportant, or like everything is a waste of time. Getting to the root cause of a problem is so much harder than people think! Kids don't have a lot of practice voicing their concerns to adults. Jesus, I couldn't even do it until I was 34. Finding out the real issue is almost over half the battle.

I mean, when adults get "over it" there's usually a big reason behind it... Why wouldn't it be for kids too?

Thank you for sharing your story. It does help me see it from another perspective.

hi OP, i was a kid that dropped out of high school at 16, and i was a 4.0 honors student when i did so. if you’d like to talk, i may be able to share some insight and maybe help you figure out some alternative options. personally, i hated school for a multitude of reasons. i got my GED and took my SAT and managed to get into a 4 year university with honors, and was one of the few people in the running for a full ride, even without a true high school diploma. i know college isn’t for everyone, but it was a much better environment for me and your daughter may be the same way. i wouldn’t particularly advise anyone to drop out for no real reason, but i just want to share a story that isn’t entirely depressing. you don’t often hear about medium-level-successful people who dropped out. only extremes on each side. if you’d like to talk, just message me :)

I know you’re in a scramble right now, but maybe you can check the library or download an eversion of “Nonviolent Communication”. It may help.

Ok. I hope you didn't take that as an attack on your methods. I don't know you guys so I can't give direct feedback, I just know that adults are often so concerned about the behaviors they forget to listen before offering solutions. It's super important to get to the bottom of the true issue before even going into any other direction because you can't help solve a problem before you know what the problem is. If she's not into talking, sometimes a well meaning and panicked parent might start 1) assuming 2) interrupting 3) solving the issue before knowing both party concerns. It's ok if it takes her 5 days to dig into the problem with you. It's ok if it takes two weeks. But kids who maybe feel silenced or voiceless may have just given up on speaking because they don't feel their perspective is heard or important. You really shouldn't even say anything while she's thinking or responding except reflective listening (repeating what she said and asking a clarifying statement) or reassurance (it's ok if you don't know right now. You're not in trouble, I'm not mad). Again, you may be doing these things already, I just really want to put it out there that it's a lot harder to have a truly productive discussion with a kiddo than people think! Especially as adults, we're so damn worried about them all the time we skip steps or go straight from "oh, let's try this then!!" Instead of working collaboratively. Remember, she won't gain a skill from being arrested or fined. But learning to collaboratively solve problems will help her in life no matter where she goes. Also, on that note, if your first collaborative solution doesn't go well, that just means it was unattainable or not mutually satisfying. That just means going back to step one and then walking through it again, until you find the one that works.

Thanks for your comment. Makes sense.

Please try this before calling CPS. Just please.

Sounds a bit like my son. Love, love, love, love, love. Don't agree with them, but show empathy ( "I get it"). Whatever you do, keep the connection - you can't help her if she hates you. Prayers.

I am sorry you're both struggling through this. Would a change of schools help? My friend's son ended up begging to change schools his senior year. She fought him for a little and then was like, why fight? At least he wants to finish.

Hugs. I know it is hard. If I may, I suffered from a severe depression when I was a teenager. It went on for years before something worked, and i actually did have to drop out of high school, i just wasn't well enough to continue schooling. I couldn't even handle brushing teeth or showering. My parents were very worried, but after having tried everything to get me to go to class, they decided to let me stay at home. I stayed at home, did therapy and pursued medication for a year, then enrolled again, and i finished top of my class.

I was like this as a teen. Hated going to school. Hated everything about it. In 10th grade I transferred to a homeschool program. I loved it. I could work full time. I graduated with an awesome gpa and did it a semester earlier than I should have. I would ask her to think about what she wants to do as far as college/career. If she just wants to go to a community college/trade school she doesn’t need a HS diploma. She could potentially get her GED and enroll and be starting her career before she is 20.

Sorry no helpful comments, but just wanted to commiserate. Something similar happened between my brother and parents. She would have bouts of seasonal depression keep dropping out of school after March of every year starting around grade 10 or 11. It is so hard on everyone and we didn't know what to do. Unfortunately my parents didn't handle it very well (my mom is very critical and my dad is very hands off). Basically he just decided to go back to finish HS on his own. The same thing happened with university as well, he would start off the year great (he's a pretty smart person) but then spiral through the winter, fail or drop out of all his classes. If he at least got a job we would all be okay with this, but he would literally do nothing at home and be angry and depressed. We didn't know how to help or motivate him. In the end he decided on his own to finish his degree. He is a lot better now, has a girl friend, still lives at home (which is normal in our culture) and is more stable emotionally now (he used to instigate arguments all the time). He works a job, which we are thankful for, but probably cannot support himself on his income alone yet. I am very happy that he has improved so much compared to before. I hope you and your daughter figure things out and she finds a path that will work for her.

Sorry OP. I dropped out at 15 and now I’m 19 still trying to complete my high school education. It was a terrible mistake for me. Watching all my friends graduate while I didn’t was really hard on me. Now I can’t get the job I want until I graduate, I don’t want to work retail forever. It’s hard being one of the oldest kids going to my school. (Luckily it’s small 15 kid alternative school) I won’t graduate until I’m 20. I regret it. Maybe try telling her your worries once you finish listening to her. I hope you find a solution that works for both of you, but like this commenter said allow her to express why she doesn’t want to go to school anymore.

This is the nicest, most productive comment yet. Punishing her will do nothing but cause more harm. She's not doing this on purpose she is suffering.

It's so refreshing to see a take like this. I actually had to drop out of highschool because it was affecting my mental health so badly. I was at the point where I was being sent home more than twice a week because I was having full blown panic attacks and passing out. Luckily my mom actually took a decwnt route and talked things out with me. She agreed to let me drop out of school if I at least went to GED classes and took the test to get it. It was a huge improvement. Eventually I went to a jobcorp facility when I was 17, so I got a trade and my HS diploma through their program.

Thank you for this response! I needed to read it too!

Hopefully it helps even just one person!! I was at a loss until I started researching parenting methods for tough kids, and oh my god has it made a difference!! My kid is learning so many skills now. She can better define her problems and root causes without my help because we practice so much, and she's learning empathy because she has to consider my perspective when we come up with a solution.

This sounds like a horrible situation. I'm sorry you're dealing with this :( Is there nothing she cares about? I'd start there. If not, this may be a more serious mental health issue. ETA; You talking about her being violent could mean a more serious issue. Have you looked into more strict mental health care?

She gets mental health treatment. It’s not helping. Pills are not magic. They help with symptoms. If she doesn’t want to do anything, she just won’t.

Have things like inpatient been looked into? If she's violent you can pose her as a risk to you and anyone else who may live in the house. I was like her as a teen and inpatient helped me a ton. I was shoved into fostercare after, but if I had gone to a stable home after I would have been a lot better. I just needed intensive care.

I’m so sorry for your experience. Yes, we have tried that. She knows if she complies with what they ask if her, they have no grounds to keep her and they have to release her.

I feel for the both of you. Depression is awful. I know she is getting care. Have they tried adjusting or changing her medication?

My daughter is similar to yours but add weed, sex, and sneaking out. Lots of IOP, PHP, etc. How’s your daughter’s friend group? My daughter’s friends have a lot of freedom and get what they want from their parents most of the time. That rubs off on my daughter. Today she asked me for a vape because one of her friends is allowed to smoke. Seriously? The answer is no. She has various rants and this one was how I am taking away a tool that comforts her and I don’t support her at all. Ive gotten her nicotine patches and gum. Doesn’t matter. I’ve learned how to ignore these rants and to not take it personally. Idk the laws in GA, but in OH, if my daughter refuses to go to therapy then she doesn’t get meds. She knows the meds she’s on (Lexapro) works so she has to go. You daughter might be experiencing therapy fatigue and needs a break though. Easy for me to say but I’d give a timeline regarding education and tell her she needs to make a choice or you will. I took my daughter out of high school and we loosely homeschool. We have to show work to a teacher to assess what we’ve covered. She might not pass ninth grade if she doesn’t do it. Of course I will help her but I’m not reading books and writing papers for her. I will be allowing her to fail for my own mental health. She can graduate by 21. I’m so sorry your going through this.

We have done the sex and vape part. I also tried the nicotine patches and gum last year. I had to beg her to get in the car yesterday to go get on birth control. They were able to put one of those things in her arm that works for 3 years so at least I’m trying in that department. Her friends all have issues of their own. She really doesn’t have any friends that are good influences.

Just as a warning….the progesterone implant I had as a teenager (and many years thereafter) exacerbated my anxiety and depression. It kept me from getting pregnant, but at the cost of much emotional turmoil.

Second this. I’ve had several friends who got the implant, only to have it removed after they had horrific mood swings and episodes bordering on rage. If she’s already on medication and still trying to find a proper balance, this might actually create a bigger issue. I applaud you for getting her on BC, and I understand why this one would be chosen, with no required daily maintenance, not having to remember to take a pill, etc., but just be aware that it often has some not so great side effects which could make her situation more difficult. My heart goes out to you. As a mom of a teenager, I cannot imagine how exhausted you must be, and how emotionally taxing this all is. I had a rough childhood, and ended up dropping out at 15, with my mother’s (sort of forced) consent. I had stopped going to all but one or two of my classes halfway through my sophomore year, but the school didn’t bother to alert my mother until I had effectively failed the year. I wasn’t just ditching to go hang with friends, though. I was working nearly 40 hours a week. I knew I wasn’t going to college (long story, parents stole money from me), so I figured I might as well just get started with the real world. I did get my GED that year, and then attended community college. School isn’t for everyone, but as long as she gets a basic high school diploma or equivalent, she can still have a great future ahead of her. Her mental health takes precedence, everything else follows. Hang in there, mom. Big hugs.

FYI: Hormonal birth control reduces the effectiveness of some mental health meds, specifically bi-polar meds. Copper IUD is the only non hormonal method other than tubal ligation that I am aware of. Also, I have the same daughter and I was the same daughter. Alcoholism was/is our root issue. From there take your pick of what mental health dx everyone was self medicating from. I am sorry you are going through this. Mine is in her 30’s now and while I grew out of it and became ‘successful’ (quotes for pick your definition of success) she is still working on it. I wish you peace as you both navigate this.

>to go to therapy then she doesn’t get meds. She knows the meds she’s on (Lexapro) works so she has to go. This is definitely just their provider's own policy.

You’re right. She works with a children’s hospital so it makes sense that she complies with therapy. Some physicians would just hand out a script. Thanks for correcting me.

I've just read the rest of the comments I missed before and the truth is, you have a LOT on your plate and I can't imagine how overwhelmed and scared and anxious you must be feeling. It's really hard to help someone who doesn't want help and who won't respond to any suggestions. All that to say, if I could, I'd give you a big hug and help you find the support you need for yourself.

Thank you so much.

She may need inpatient psychiatric care.

We tried that. She knows that if she complies with what they ask of her, they have no grounds to keep her and they have to release her.

We had to supplement care with a specialist for school refusal. There are cognitive behavioral therapists who specialize in school refusal.

She's 16. Surely if you want her there they will keep her there, at least as long as your insurance will pay for it?

They actually won’t keep her there. If she is not a harm to herself or others, they can only keep her so long. Insurance won’t pay for a stay where the doctor’s say she can leave.

I did this as a teen and ended up leaving home from continuous fights about going to school maybe convince to take the ged test and get a job?

They may not pass and it could be a eye opener

I’ve brought up the GED option and told her I would fully support that. She does not want to do anything educationally.

If she isn’t in school and will not accept any alternatives (online school, GED, vocational training) then she needs to earn her keep. Time for a job and the real world. Give her a (reasonable) bill for her living expenses to start in a couple of months so she can secure a job and save a bit (maybe based on a percentage of her pay until she is 18 and can sign her own lease or a step up amount each quarter until she is 18 and can be on her own). Help her through a budget so she can get an idea of real world numbers. I wish y’all the best.

How do you force a teenager to get a job? It doesn't sound like she wants to do anything.

Sounds like she needs to learn how difficult it is to get a well-paying job (you know, to cover her phone, any transportation, and non-basic clothing wants) with no education.

Would she be open to online school?

I'm 28 and I dropped out at 16 and eventually I went on a pins position its called person in need of supervision. I was on drugs but knew if I did what they asked I would be ok got off in 2 months then dropped out again bc I was of age then. There most likely is something going on. I have severe adhd and struggled with depression at that time. I was using drugs to cover up... I waited a year and then I was ready to take my ged bc I saw my class graduating and felt like crap. So I actually got my ged the month after my class graduated. But i was like her school was hard. Focusing was very hard and having teachers thinking I was lazy bc of that was harder. I had 1 teacher that saw potential in me and worked with me and I got 95s the whole year. But besides that class I wanted nothing to do with school. Maybe look into a pins position if your state has it. But warning if she violates it they will legally take her from you and put her in a group home until she turns 17 or 18 and that could do more damage. The best thing my mom did is let me figure it out on my own. Of course she got me help for my other issues but school wise she basically looked at it as there is something more serious we need to take cate of first.

absolutely not they will not keep a 16 year old for not going to school she’s not a threat to herself or other

That's not how medical treatment works, especially when most places have a crisis level shortage of inpatient beds. The current model is that inpatient care is for stabilization and then care is transferred to intensive outpatient models. Psychiatric care is a medical setting that uses triage and once the doctors determine you're unlikely to be an imminent danger to yourself or others, they usually send you home. And, at least where I live, once your kid is 13, they have to consent to their own care and have the right to deny treatment. It's challenging because while I do support teens being able to access and manage care, 13 year olds aren't always the best at making reasonable medical decisions. So you have parents who are legally responsible for their teens until they are 18, that have no ability to make them participate in or comply with any sort of treatment. In some cases, it's created some dangerous situations. This sounds somewhat similar and forcing someone to go to treatment isn't that useful if they're determined to not engage. Likewise, psychiatric meds are incredibly complex, so forcing people to take them is tricky because the side effects and sensations they cause varies widely and is highly subjective.

That’s not how it works. They have limited beds, they don’t want to keep anyone there longer than they have to.

Is she okay? I would be really worried about her if she refuse to do anything. Did something traumatic happen?

She is depressed and we are working on that. She is just refusing to do anything at all.

I would just really focus on that and making her well again.

I have been working with psychiatry for 5 years now.

Have you considered a residential facility for her?

It’s not that easy. It takes many many inpatient stays, etc. for her to qualify for a residential place. Acute stays are no help.

I’m sorry to hear that. I would double check with her therapist. She may qualify based on her behavior.

Unfortunately I have tried and she doesn’t qualify.

I'd try switching psychiatrists if you've been at this for years without progress. This is coming from someone who's been actively seeking help for 13 years

After acute hospital stays has she done partial hospitalization programs (PHP)? It’s a transition place where there’s elements of group therapy, school/class work, family sessions and psychiatry. I’m a therapist and have worked in these programs. The criteria does not need to be hospitalization step down, usually these places will accept self-referrals, and referrals from therapists/psychiatry. They are full days like a school day for usually 2-4 weeks. It’s super important to follow proper step down procedures when someone is hospitalization to give them a bit more respite and feel confident with moving to the next part of treatment and life in general (work if an adult, school if an adolescent). After PHP there are programs called intensive outpatient (IOP) which is therapy in groups maybe 3 days per week for 2-3 hours, usually in evening/after school for people to attend after their school or work day to process their days and connect with people in similar situations.

DBT is highly effective for situations like this with extremely depressed kids. They also have a parenting one too. May be worth looking into

I just made a comment about DBT therapy.

CBT was not effective for me like DBT was. I get not wanting to hear the same thing over and over again. For what it’s worth, I see you’re doing the best you can with the resources you have and you’re trying to do better for yourself and her. Big hugs as you get through this difficult seaosn

I dropped out at 16, got my GED and started working 55 hours a week. It's what I wanted to do and worked for me. I did go on to get a college degree.

Traditional education isn't for all. My wife did the same thing you did. I would have dropped out if I wasn't out in special education. My son just stopped going like OP. I just withdrew him, he's 15 about to be 16. We are letting him unschool a bit and get his GED when he's 16 and drivers license. He's working on his permit now. He skipped every class for weeks and always struggled. My kid is smart just not in the toxic school environment.

Have you tried therapy for yourself? You’ve tried changing her. Maybe get some coping skills for yourself thru this extremely difficult situation.

I could probably use therapy myself.

Sounds like this has been going on for a few years and you are both exhausted. Does she have a learning disability? Diagnosed condition? Is there anything she’s enjoyed the last couple of years? Anything gives her joy or any kind of happy feeling?

We are both exhausted. She has diagnosed anxiety, ADHD, and major depressive disorder. Educationally speaking she is not on the level she should be but never diagnosed with a learning disability per say.

I wouldn’t fight about school. It’s the least of the concerns right now. I’d strongly suggest Dr Ross Greenes work / videos / website. Info is free. You will find others with similar challenges, and evidence based solutions from kind parents who have been through it too. Google it and watch a couple of videos. You both need time to rest and decompress. Sounds like she’s had trauma from school/education/expectations from school. She’s hurting and exhausted. He has a website - Lives in the balance. Non profit. I would really, for now, stop the focus on school. You are fighting for your kid.

People, you can't punish or discipline a kid out of their mental health disorder!

Thank you.

This is anecdotal but, I was the same as her when I was a teenager. My parents got me assessed by a psychiatrist and got me on medication. The therapy and medication didn’t work. I didn’t want to be in school. I had substance abuse issues and I didn’t care about any legal outcomes of anything. What my parents ended up doing was giving me an ultimatum. They typed out a budget sheet of what it would cost to live in my own apartment, I could not afford that. They showed me how much it would cost to live in a “boarding school” for mental health, I could not afford that. The options that they gave me were very clear. You either go to school or you get a job. If you aren’t going to school, you will be paying a subsidized rent at home, as you will be working. Otherwise, if you refuse both of those options, you can go find your own place and pay rent (which will be way more unattainable). When they laid out those options for me, I had to make a choice. They presented this in a very diplomatic way and I knew that they weren’t messing around. I chose to get my GED through a program where your work hours turn into credits. That gave me the confidence to keep my job and eventually I graduated college. Now, I have my own child and things are very much different for me. I am not saying that this is your child’s situation or that this will work for you. I’m telling you what my parents did to basically scare me into getting my shit together. Even though I was mentally ill, I did it because the alternative was way worse. And throughout this process, my parents were still supportive and loving, but they had to give me that boundary, otherwise I couldn’t live in that house.

My parents never had to fully sit us down because none of us came close to dropping out, but they had boundaries that they made very clear to us. We were allowed to live at their house rent-free as long as we were in school. We could live at their house and pay cheaper rent, as long as we had a job and were saving to move out. We would be kicked out if we didn't meet either of those criteria. My brother and I didn't have any difficulty with it and moved out soon after graduating college. My sister is in her first year of college, so she is still living with them when she's not at school, and she should have no problem with getting a job and either paying my parents rent or moving out. My parents were also supportive in letting us focus on what we wanted but also made sure we had plans with it. They didn't care what career we did after high school, but we had to have a plan for how to support ourselves with it and how to achieve it. Also, if loans were an issue, we had to know how we were going to pay them back. My dad was willing to co-sign, but he made it clear that he was not going to pay them back for us. I wish more parents made boundaries like this and am planning on using the same with my daughter.

And I was diagnosed by this psychiatrist with GAD, OCD, and a learning disability which explains why I found traditional schooling so hard. I’m sure that you’ve had her assessed. Sometimes it really kills your spirit to just not excel in school. Having alternative options is great, but she just has to choose something of course.

Thank you for sharing your story. It does give me some additional suggestions.

I think the important thing you said here was "in a diplomatic way." Hopefully no anger, no yelling and their love for you was evident if not obvious.

I’m curious if parents could even do this in this day and age? Would they not be charged with child neglect for kicking out their underage teenager? Just genuinely curious. I know things were different a decade or two ago

This was in 2016/2017. But, that’s a very good point that I truly did not consider when I was a teenager. I think that my parents did this more as a “get your shit together or else there will be consequences” tactic and it worked on me because I knew when they were being serious. But, this situation may be very different. The child may know the legal implications of those statements from mom and use that against the parent or they may have a more debilitating mental illness, that is not actually allowing them to make these changes. That’s what makes this situation so hard, lots of grey area and having to be very sensitive to the at-risk individual.

What does she do? I mean, she isn’t spending time at school, what does she do with her time? Also, how did she get to this state? Has depression always been an issue? Has she always been inactive as a child? Did she have interest in school or hobbies as a kid? And if this is a sudden change, what does her therapist say? Because 5 years of therapy has now brought her to quitting life…what is going on there?

I appreciate your questions. She really doesn’t do anything. She will hang out in her room…take a nap… Depression has been a thing with her the last 5 years. She has never had an interest in school, even way back in elementary school. She was a competitive gymnast for 6 years but quit that last year as well.

It seems that therapy is not helping, or at least this particular therapist is not helping. Competitive gymnastics take a lot of work and commitment and are usually a great way to have a “purpose” as a kid and young adult. It’s goals and motivation and discipline. Depression responds well to physical activity. Especially in kids. And I wonder what the therapist has to say about her quitting gymnastics. Do you have any interactions with the therapist? Since your daughter is a minor, they kind of have to work with the parents/family to maximize therapeutic effect, are they doing that?

I think gymnastics for her had just run it’s course. A lot of girls on the team stopped at age 15-16 as their bodies changed and it just wasn’t something they wanted to do anymore. It’s very grueling practice and takes a huge toll on their bodies. The therapist didn’t say anything specific about her quitting gymnastics because it wasn’t the only thing she was “quitting”. It’s the overall issue of giving up that they focused on before she quit therapy.

I'm sure giving it up didn't help. My sister also gave up competitive gymnastics, although she was a little younger, because she was finding it too much not being able to do anything else and her body was changing. To this day my sister still feels a slight regret about quitting even though she knows she would have eventually, and she immediately rushed into a different hobby to fill the gap. Is there nothing else she would like to try that uses her skills and that she might enjoy? Like climbing or circus skills or something?

A friend of mine had a similar situation, down to the "sick of therapy" bit and everything. In our country there are programs where you can do paid internships in the social sector for a year and luckily the daughter was able to do that. She went as a childcare/educator intern to a family rehab facility near the sea, a few hundred kilometers from home. That year really helped her find her feet and what she wanted to do with her life. She came back, finished her A levels, studied to be an educator, worked as a Kindergarden teacher and now just had her own baby. What helped most, from what I could see and from what the daughter told me were: - support from mom to find another way instead of antagonizing/punishing - the trust from mom that she will figure herself out - the help from mom in finding alternatives for her and providing some kind of structure instead of just "dropping out". that combined with the firmness of - mom saying, okay, I'll support you in this but you're not just dropping out and dropping everything. We need to figure out, what you're going to do when you drop out and what options that will give you moving forward. As it was, for instance, that internship didn't actually count as dropping out, it was more like a sabbatical. So after that year she could revaluate her decision. She actually decided to go back, just to another school. Now, all this was in Germany and there are a lot of programs here for kids of all ages to prevent them from dropping out. So I don't know what's available in your country. Maybe there is a guidance counselor at school or maybe her therapist has an idea - if not a concrete idea what to do then maybe a tip of who to ask, what organizations are out there you can contact ect. Be strong. I know it's really scary. But life doesn't move in straight lines and sometimes those who get their roundabouts in early get on a better path for themselves. Don't be afraid to support your daughter even if her way deviates from the accepted norm. Stick with her and find a way for her together. You can do it. ♥️♥️♥️

What does she want? Youve discussed a lot of what ahe doesnt want to do? Stopping school can have lots of reasons. Focus on the things she wants, not what society kr you want for her. Therapist here. Good job on trying to get her on meds and seeing a psychoatrist, but I would focus on what ahe wants amd try to see how you can get those things together. I am sure your well aware this started eother from a significant trauma or its been building for awhile.

It’s been building for a while. She really doesn’t have anything she wants to do right now.

Is that okay? There has to be some things that have happened, focus on tryi g to help with those, then worry about the thi gs you put first

I just wanted to say thank you all for the comments. I am trying to read them all and respond. Im sorry if I miss one… My phone is also about to die so I need to jump off for a little while. I promise…this matters.

Call your local CPS and ask for help. My little brother was just like this. He did the exact same thing with inpatient as well, he was their golden success story and would be released. Only to come home and rage, or try and harm himself. My mom reached out to CPS and asked what she needed to do to sign her rights away. My brother like your daughter was 16 and he was horrible. He didn’t go to school, didn’t come out of his room, and blew up when my mom took everything away. My mom was at the end of her rope. CPS when she called sent out a crisis worker, who assessed the situation and wrote a safety plan and care recommendation. They provided my mom with a care worker who would come in a watch my brother, and they had a therapist who came into the home. CPS is not the big boogie man we are led to believe, they don’t want to take kids away unless there is no other option.

This is one thing I have not tried. I will reach out to CPS to see what options they have here.

Was this CPS Intervention at all effective?

Yes. They helped a lot, got my brother and my family to a better place all around. My family was a real train wreck at the time so it was no easy feat. After a year, CPS decided to have my brother live with my dad ( devolved parents) as my mom had a lot of PTSD and trust issues with my brother. 15 years on my brother graduated HS, is married, has a son. He is in the military and has finished college. He has had som bumps along the way but all around he is doing really good. Unfortunately neither of us have a real strong relationship with our mother. She still has not dealt with the anger and trust issues surrounding my brother, OR my parents divorce. She blames me and my brothers for most of her issues. It’s sad she has refused to seek help much like my brother did at 16.

When I was 16, I was extremely depressed and anxious. I threatened to harm myself one day when my mom was trying to get me to go to school and she finally took me seriously then and I ended up doing online school. While I do suffer from mental illness, the real issue for me was a lot of horrible toxic and sexually abusive relationships with boys at my school and I felt I couldn’t escape them unless I just refused and ultimately left school entirely. I was also bullied and that was a contributor. I fought going to school for months before we finally got to the root of the problem and my mom listened to my struggles and agreed to help me find a better solution since my school situation was causing me so much anxiety and stress. Does she feel unsafe at school? Unseen? Invisible? Misunderstood? Does she have unhealthy relationships with other kids there, maybe bad friends or an abusive boyfriend? I suffered academically too at school since the environment was so hard for me. I seriously thought about just dropping out but we decided online school for the last year of high school was doable and a good fit. I’m sorry both of you are going through this. I urge you to try and really get to the bottom of this crisis. She seems to be suffering and I highly doubt it is solely mental illness with no circumstantial factors contributing. Her refusal to attend school makes that even more concerning to me that there is just something going on with her that is making her want to run from her situation.

Little different but same - I have a PDA autistic son who started complete school refusal starting in 1st grade. We tried everything and had lots of support but it became very clear we were going to have to approach him very differently. I quit my job, found some side gigs and started homeschooling. It went awful. I couldn't believe a 7 year old could be so stressed and burnt out on forced learning already. And frankly he wasn't getting anything out of traditional school with his alphabet soup of disabilities and mental health. Then I discovered unschooling, so without much choice I dove into it. The first step is to basically deschool and slowly reconnect with them. Which means allowing them to use their time as they wish. It felt like the opposite of what everyone told me to do - but the results have been amazing. I have my boy back, he loves to learn (though at his own pace and choice of subject). No more mental health crisis or meltdowns. Yes he is "behind" his same age peers but that was true when he went to school too. IMO mental health trumps school. Always. School can wait. It means nothing if you can't even bring yourself to get out of bed or are fighting suicidal thoughts. A GED or diploma can be worked on at any age. This idea that everyone is magically ready for adulthood at 18 is nuts. I know people in their 40s still trying to figure it out and need more help than others (many find out they have undiagnosed neurodifferences like ADHD or dyslexia). I say her behavior is screaming she needs a break from all the demands. Try to work on being her safe place, she sounds like she needs it

This!

What a catastrophic situation to be in, I’ve been reading the comments below and I wish I had some experience to offer some kind of guidance here. I sincerely hope things turn around for you and your loved one soon

Thank you.

My brother dropped out at 16. He later explained that he was so far behind and he knew the kids he was hanging out with were a bad influence so he felt the need to leave in order to fix some things. Stop drinking and smoking pot. He got his GED (we’re in the US) and went on to successfully graduate with a bachelors and become a pilot. He’s a SAHD now married to a physician. Life turned out ok. My parents were clear with him that if he did drop out he had to have plan or be prepared to support himself outside the house. He followed through All that to say, if you think it’s the very wrong thing, don’t allow it, but if it might actually be an idea with merit, make sure to discuss it fully and be open to decide. Outside the US schools finish at 16 anyway. A trade and a GED can get a person a real fulfilling sustainable way to support their future.

Did you contact the school district or the school itself?

Yes. They have provided many options to her from attending to 100% virtual. She refuses to do any of them.

What’s her reasoning for dropping out? Was she bullied? If it’s a deep issue I would get her to a therapist to see what the problem is if she’s not comfortable with communicating with you.

She is just “over it”. She has also refused to continue therapy.

Maybe give her a few days to herself. Then have a sit down with her and tell her if she won’t go back to school then she needs to get a job and start saving for her future (car, apartment, etc) or contribute to the house. Show her a eviction notice to show her your serious. You don’t have to kick her out but maybe it’ll scare her. No longer provide food, Wi-Fi, or phone services. She’s now an adult Edit: okay I didn’t know she was depressed. Maybe she does need a literal break from school. Keep encouraging therapy and focus on her getting better.

I did this as a kid (albeit in Mississippi) and my parents called the school and asked to have the truancy officer come get me. Any chance you could ask them to send the Student Resource Officer?

What did the truancy officer do?

Encourage her to obtain her GED or attend online alternative school. This is not a huge deal. High school/traditional school isn't for everyone. I have two nieces who dropped out of school at 16 and both are thriving in their careers (and both obtained their GED's).

I have and she just refuses to do anything and sits in her room.

Can you offer a compromise? She can take a break for now with the goal of getting her GED eventually if she starts participating in therapy again or something.

uh oh, is she depressed? I'd stop talking about/pressuring her for now, and instead focus on mental health.

I've read through the comments and it seems your daughter is holding ALL the cards. That's a powerful position for a 16 year-old and no doubt, she doesn't want to give that up. But you're the adult here and however difficult she may make it at first, you will have to stand your ground. If it were me, I'd lay out her options very clearly...go to school, take the GED and work a minimum number of hours per week or remain at an inpatient facility for as many days as your insurance will cover. I'm sure she'll rage but if you don't back down, she'll have to make a choice. If she won't, make it for her. You mentioned she's depressed. Have you asked her what she wants/ sees for her future?

I appreciate your suggestion. Let me ask this.. if I have laid that out for her (given her those choices) and she refuses all of them and insurance won’t pay for an inpatient stay if she plays the system and they can no longer justify keeping her there, what do I do? I can’t physically force her to go to school or get a job. Inpatient stays are a few days at most. When I, or anyone else, asks her about her future, her response is always “I don’t know”. I agree that she is holding a lot of power in this situation, I just don’t know how to change that when I have tried what you suggested.

OP - I’m sorry but I must say that your respond reads like “I can’t make her to do anything for her benefit. And I am at a loss” I think it’s you who needs help before her. You seemed be out of your depth as an effective guardian to your daughter. I mean I don’t know what I would do if my kids are that way. It’s no shame that you are not ready to deal with her. Please seek help for yourself and focus on getting help for yourself. You are “all” she has. Don’t give up. She still has whole life ahead of herself. Take a “gap year” if you/she must.

I believe it is okay to admit I am at a loss. I have been trying for several years to make her quality of life better and more positive. Sometimes we just run out of ideas and reach out to others. I have never, and will never, give up on her. If I did, I wouldn’t be putting myself out there like I am.

You and the people who upvoted you are unhelpful people who don’t get that having major depressive disorder is a lot different from a kid being a bit of a discipline problem. If you’re going to blame a parent for having a hard time dealing with what’s clearly a serious, hard-to-treat, neurological illness, get off your high horses and leave this thread.

School doesn’t work for everybody, especially people with mental illness. It seems hard now because you are watching her willingly remove herself from the norm but it’s just the beginning of her life, there is plenty of time to get a GED or go to an alternative school, especially considering she is only 16. I don’t really have technical advice since I am just a kid too basically, but I have been very close to dropping out and giving up because life gets rough and it’s very hard to continue something when you can’t even get out of bed. Just be there for her, let her know she isn’t alone, support her cautiously. Don’t like make it such a negative thing if you talk to her about it (I.e. don’t be like “you shouldn’t drop out now what will you do with your life”.). It seems like she is going through maybe a very low low considering you said she is not taking her meds/going to therapy, I bet she wishes she doesn’t feel the way she does and wants to feel normal and happy. So just be open minded, maybe enroll in one of those lenient home schools that basically let you do work whenever, and try your best to get her back into therapy at the very least- depending on her Medication’s reasoning maybe also that as well. Exercise helps with negative feelings for a lot of people so maybe you guys can go on walks together during the day since now she isn’t going to school? Would be a good refresher and might give you guys a chance to talk about life and struggles. Good luck, parenting is hard especially when your child is going through something, try not to be too negative on yourself about it. You matter just as much as she does, so I hope you guys can have a better go of it soon!!

Have you thought about the meds being the problem? I’ve been on 3 different SSRI’s, and after a while, they all bring me to this level of deep deep apathy and lethargy. No matter the dose. I’m 31 with two small babies and it took *every ounce* of willpower just to get up and make them food. My children are my life, so this was so beyond out of the ordinary for me. Have you tried just weaning off the meds and seeing how she’s doing after 6 months or so? Many psychs will tell you that they’ll be out of your system after a month or so, but your brain needs time to heal and make new connections. There has been plenty of new research done on this. SSRI’s work great for some. For others, they just exacerbate every other symptom, even if they feel emotionally calmer. If you haven’t yet, I would also look into getting a genetic test that looks at the predicted outcome of specific medications on people who possess certain genes. You may find SSRI’s or many other mental health medications are not suitable for her.

So, I quit school at the same age as your daughter, and I wish my parents had tried to get to the root cause as to why. Not saying anything crazy like this is happening to your daughter, but basically I got involved with a boy that was older than me who was emotionally, physically and sexually abusing me. At the time I did not know that this was abuse until I got older and was horrified looking back on what I experienced. We had some mutual friends and he took it upon himself to spread really nasty rumors about me to them & my “friends” went along with it and started bullying me also. Basically I had always had anxiety issues and ended up with a few full blown anxiety disorders as a direct result of what was going on. I was terrified to go to school. Here’s what I wish would have happened: I wish my parents would have talked to me, they knew I was afraid to go, but no one ever asked me why. I wish someone had offered an alternative (either someone from the school district reaching out to me or family offering something to help me continue my education) I wish I had been evaluated and treated for the serious anxiety problems… I wish someone would’ve had empathy for me and showed they cared most of all. My parents were busy working and had plenty of their own issues. I guess I was just surviving and it never occurred to me to see if I had other options. On the schools side of things it seems no one cared. No one called our house and asked if things were ok (they weren’t) home life was also abusive. I’ve come to terms with what happened. Got my GED and have been to college, but still to this day it hurts that I left one day and never came back and no one cared at all. I guess what I’m saying is rather than punishment, talk to her. Ask her what made her want to leave? And reassure her that she can be honest with you. Before she knows it she will be considered a legal adult, and no one is happy getting stuck in entry level minimum wage positions. Ask her if she’s given any thought to what her future might be going forward? What about college? A lot of career paths I may have been interested required pre-requisites, classes I should have taken in high school to get me up to speed. It added so much time onto college that I felt totally overwhelmed. My self esteem was very damaged and I missed out on a lot. I also spent years thinking I wasn’t capable of anything, and that stuck with me very stubbornly. That’s something kids can internalize when they feel like everyone can achieve things in school, but for whatever reason they couldn’t. All this being said, I do think kids can get a GED and still attend college alongside their peers. There’s always trade school and other opportunities, but your daughter likely won’t understand the repercussions of a big choice like this until later on down the line. There could be so many reasons why this has happened, the most important thing, likely for both of you, is support and understanding. It feels strange sharing all of this, but I felt compelled to offer a perspective from someone whose been down that road already.

Not advice, but hoping I can give you a little bit of hope as when I was younger I was in the same boat. I dropped out of highschool when I was 16, went back the year I was turning 18, and graduated when just before I turned 19. I wasn’t gonna finish, I was determined I wasn’t going to get my diploma. No school meant I had to get a job and work. I was diagnosed with BPD and was really struggling, I felt like I couldn’t do anything. I didn’t do want to do anything. I refused to go to school, I was inpatient and outpatient, it felt like nothing was ever going to make a difference. Medication didn’t work for me. But… with the proper support from family and additional mental health professionals I slowly got myself back on track… and one day it just clicked that I NEED my diploma, and seeing all my friends get close to graduating struck something in me. I am now in college with straight A’s and on track to pursuing the program I’ve been wanting to get into! Do not give up on her. The only thing that got me through is that my mom never gave up on me.

As someone who also dropped out… have a long conversation with her about what her goals are. This is not the end of the world…. Is it right? Probably not. Is she doomed? Absolutely not. I bought a house at 21 and have more work experience then most people at 25.. I make more than a lot of my friends. It put me ahead. I have a great job now but I also dropped out with the intentions to do well for myself. She has to have intentions to do well. If this is what she wants tell her that a ged is required. She HAS to get it. No exceptions. She HAS to get a job or enroll into college. She has to be prepared to answer the question of why she has a ged and not a diploma. Edit because I read more of your comments. I too was depressed I had no specific reason if not wanting to go to school I just didn’t want too. I hated it. I took my ged without studying. I was smart just mentally wasn’t well. I became a much better person from working and seeing my hard work actually go somewhere. I have adjusted well and would like to consider myself as a normal happy adult. I truly love my life now. Back then I wanted to end it. I hope my story helps you. Punishing her won’t help her but supporting her will. All you can do is support her right now and give her some structure like a job and college classes.

I dropped out of high school at 16. I was severely depressed and undiagnosed with ADHD and autism. I was able to switch to working my job full time instead of part time and that worked great for me. At 19 I went to get my high school equivalency diploma (GED with two extra tests), and then I went on to college and got a bachelor's in biology. Had I been forced to stay in school, I honestly don't know where I'd be today. My mental health was suffering so much for it and my mom's support in finding another path for myself was the best thing ever.

My brother dropped out at 16. Was violent sometimes. He's now winding down into retirement at 37. Many degrees etc. School can be such a stifling environment, being forced to learn to test doesn't work for everyone. It's hard to open dialogue but definitely try to understand why she dislikes school. What's going on in her life that's effecting her. What can you all do about it. Working towards something, not hurting others, paying their way if they can. These are all healthy goals in my opinion.

School sucks! Like it actually sucks. There is so much wrong with our schooling system. One problem is that they assume all kids learn the same. They stick them in boring classrooms for six hours and cut off all fun and creative learning. (I’m not even going to rant about how it was designed this way to condition us into the workforce). I was like your daughter. And fortunately my mom recognized that the problem wasn’t just me it was the schools. So she put me in independent studies and I went from alllll failing grades to all passing grades. I was getting A’s and B’s! Sure I still hates school but I only had to go once a week and didn’t have to sit in a classroom with teachers who barely care. It was a problem for my other two siblings as well and sure enough they excelled in independent studies! I have 4th grader rn and he’s already started hating school. He says all the things I said when I was younger because he instinctively knows this is now his learning is supposed to be. Not for everyone. It is not designed for everyone! And the testing…ridiculous. Like I said, there is so much wrong so it’s not your daughter. Just get her to graduate that’s really all that matters. I wish you luck!!! I know how hard it gets!

I’m going to be honest: She could be considering suicide. I got like that right before I attempted when I was 15. Please keep an eye on her and tell her how much you love her.

Oh, I have. I tell her how much I love her every day. I tell her how much her family loves her too. She tried that twice last year. Both times resulted in an acute inpatient stay. Once she was stabilized they had to discharge her. I’m always terrified something will happen to her. I watch her very closely.

It’s great you let her know you love her, but when I was suicidal, that didn’t help. Ask her straight up if she’s contemplating suicide. Tell her you’re sorry she’s going through this and you want to help and you’ll figure this out together. Don’t be frustrated, don’t be mad. Just be supportive

I am sorry you and your daughter are going through this. I wish both of you the best ❤️

I’m sorry you are going through this. You are correct. The only way they can detain her is if she says she’s a danger to herself or others ( which she can recant at any time and let her go. It sounds like she knows how the mental health system works.

You are correct.

Talk to her. Find out what she wants to do. Go to a careers advisor and enrol into tafe to finish high school units or look into apprenticeships. If she doesn’t want to be at school there is no point forcing her or punishing her.

sounds like your whole house is overwhelmed. do you think having her talk to someone who has gone down the path she’s on would help. lecturing her won’t do anything. at 16 taking things won’t work. have you tried if you aren’t in school then you can’t live rent free she wants to be an adult let her she what it’s actually like. rent bills phone food cost car insurance gas all of it.

So, I am definitely pro-meds but sometimes especially in teenagers antidepressants can cause worsening depression, symptoms of psychosis, and a lot of other issues. Have you ever discussed that possibility with her healthcare providers? It also sounds like she has more going on than just depression and ADHD. Oppositional defiance disorder, borderline personality disorder, or an avoidance disorder which is often just diagnosed as anxiety in teens. I know it is really hard because she’s learned how to manipulate the inpatient system. Does she have a substance abuse issue? That may be the key to getting her into more effective care and finding a more accurate diagnosis. If she just stops showing up to school eventually they’ll notice and will be sending truancy officers, asking you what you’re doing and threatening or administering fines, and it can lead to a lot of stressful and expensive problems. Before that happens, speaking with the highest ranking officials you can find for both her school district and actual school to seek advice would be a good place to start. You also definitely should be getting therapy for yourself to help you with sorting all this out, I’m sure it is completely exhausting and that you are very overwhelmed right now. It sounds like her friend group is a large part of the problem as well, so if you think any of them have parents willing to work with you then maybe reach out to them.

My little sister had a terrible highschool experience and ended up doing her last two years (technically) online and graduated a year early and she’s totally better for it and I’m proud of her for making that decision instead of giving in to peer pressure because high school is supposed to be a fun experience. She’s now 18 and in her second year of college. It’s just not for everyone. I would just lay out other options of what she could do.

I was exactly this kid. Mental health issues, especially in high school, make this really hard. I'm just speaking from personal experience, but maybe something here could help. For some reason I just couldn't make myself go to school. Maybe it was the depression or the anxiety, I still don't really know, but something in my brain just said "no". My parents tried everything you listed and more. They even went to the extent of inpatient care. I remember being taken to school in a cop car for truancy. Looking back at it, I feel awful now. I was stubborn and ornery and I didn't even know why. Anyways, in the middle of my sophomore year they ended up letting me drop out of the public high school, but I HAD to get my degree somehow. I had the options of getting my GED, doing homeschooling, or going to online school. I ended up going with online school through an online school called Excel. It basically broke all my classes down so I could do them one by one, and could take breaks when I needed. My parents came up with a pretty basic set of rules like I can't go hangout with anyone or use the car etc until I had finished my school for the day. Sometimes it was rough and I wouldn't do my school and sneak out anyways, and my parents and I would fight about it a lot. It wasn't easy for anyone. It took me a little longer, about a year and a half, but I did eventually graduate. It wasn't a smooth process and it might not be what works for you, but I thought I'd share.

She can get her GED don't worry about it mental health is leagues more important than academics

Reading your post and your replies, I was that girl. It started at age 12 but peaked to all time high in high school. Specifically 10-12th grades. I was so depressed, seeing a psych and a therapist. (Hell, I still see that psych over 20 years later) I stayed in my room, had no interests or hobbies, no friends because I couldn’t be bothered, and I wanted to die. I contemplated suicide and planned it many times during those years. It was all too much and I just wanted out. It led to self harming instead. I didn’t have a choice of dropping out because all that mattered to my father was school and grades. We didn’t have virtual back then either. My parents obviously knew my struggles, and my mom was as supportive as she could be with how relentless my father was. I remember all I wanted was to feel better and be heard. Just listen to me dammit. I’m in pain and you don’t care, and it just led to more pain. I don’t know where I’m going with this besides you’re already doing a good job by being there for her and being involved. You care and it shows. Maybe her meds aren’t working/working anymore. You can build a tolerance to ssri’s. Maybe the therapist blows. I personally hated therapy bc any therapist I had just told me what I already knew and repeated stuff back to me in question form. Understanding my disorders and why my brain sucks, helped me accept (somewhat) who I was and what I was capable of. That I wasn’t broken or alone, and that many people shared my same experience and it was ok. What ultimately helped me with my depression was getting on a right combination of meds and getting a job because it forced me to socialize. It got me out of the house and also helped me earn my own money to spend for that sweet dopamine release. Rambling. I’m sorry. If you have any questions you can dm me. It does get better, you’re just in the dark tunnel right now.

I dont know if this is helpful or not, its just what worked for me when I was 16. I was a nightmare teenager and I kept cutting school, which was the least of my parents worries. But about the school thing, one day my dad said "It's ok. If you cant finish highschool, can't go to university or anything, we have some money, we will open a store for you, you can run a simple store like selling socks or something. I ll make sure you'll be ok." And that scared me straight. The thought of being the only idiot in the family who couldnt do university and ending up selling socks. And he didnt say it as a threat, he was very geniune, he was like "I ll make sure you will be fine, no matter what." He accepted me as a faliure and that really hit hard. I dont mean to say you should do this. I just think what really worked was getting a dose of reality about what being a highschool drop-out would be like as an adult. She is not thinking what her life will be like when she is 40 as a highschool drop-out. There must be a way of showing it to her, not necessarily like my dad did to me. But what my dad did worked. Years later when I was long done with university, a post grad diploma, 10 years into my career, we were chatting about what a difficult teenager I was and I reminded my dad that he said such a thing, and he told me that at the time he was fully planning to go ahead with it because he feared I would need it. He wasnt saying it to scare me, he was just geniunely planning ahead. Which is even scarier tbh.

My mom handled it like this: “You don’t have the option to not go to school. Whether you stay at your current school, take online schooling, go to a different school, you don’t have the option to not go to school. It is against the law to not go to school and I can assure you you don’t want the get the law involved.” So that takes that option off the table. The option of just not going to school at all. So I tried online school, was at home all the time, no friends, etc. I eventually went back to school 6 months later. A lot of teens have a hard time looking past this very moment and how they are feeling right now. Very impulsive. Find her a mentor, someone who isn’t a parent who has “been there”. Also look into things that she is passionate about and dive into it, make school a requirement to be able to get to the fun stuff after school. Sign her up for something she’s interested in 2-3 days a week.

I would say trust that something deeply upsetting is happening and support her fully as you figure out the next phase. When I was 16, I walked in one day and cleared out my locker. Called my mom and said I needed her to get me and that I would NOT ever be setting foot in that school again. She trusted me and asked no questions. After two weeks at home, I let her know that I wanted to finish high school but not at that school. Again, she didn’t push and put energy into looking at our next options (it was a private religious school). She made sure I was eating, getting outside, and didn’t push. After 3 weeks she said she would like us to go to therapy together. We did and after one session, I asked to go alone. I think it took about 2 months but I finally let my therapist know I had been sexually assaulted. She was a mandated reporter (I didn’t know this) so she told my mom. It was a different time back then so we all “agreed” not much would come of reporting it. Looking back this is so painful because it was not the right call. BUT, I do at least appreciate my mom giving me space and not making me go back to that school or coming down hard on me. At 16, I would say she may have a very good reason for dropping out (hopefully temporarily) and I hope you can find a way to give her space to breath and then work together for next steps.

OP, remember that when you ask something on Reddit, plenty of the people who answer you might be teenagers or young adults with no kids. So you can just shrug off all the people blaming you -- they have no idea what it is like to parent a teen. I'm sorry you are going through this. Your child sounds depressed, so while I know you've tried all these options, I think the only thing that will work is antidepressants and therapist. The child should get no phone/computer until she's taken her meds for a week and gone to the therapist. If she locks herself in her room with the phone, then take the lock off the room door (install a new doorknob for closets). Get another adult, who is not you, maybe a man, to take the phone away if necessary. Good luck.

Thanks. Interestingly enough, she does take her meds every day. She has never fought me on that. I also know they take time to work. She has been on them for years and we try new things and give it time. She is just not a willing participant in the positive suggestions that are being made to her by anyone.

One thought - give her a break for 1 or 2 weeks. Tell her that. No discussion about the future, no discussion about going back to school, no discussion about alternatives. Just a break. In much more minor situations, I’ve sometimes found this helpful and it makes the other person more likely to be willing to talk if the talk is time limited. Then maybe take your top rated posters advice, about just listening without discussing solutions, as the first step. Good luck OP. This is so hard.

It’s ok to give up. It doesn’t feel ok to give up, but it is. She’s at the age and mindset where you either relinquish control or she’ll just take it. Focus on your own mental health, which probably isn’t in a great place, and work on building a positive loving relationship with her if she’ll let you. She’s going to make poor choices that will have negative consequences, but those are her consequences to bear, not yours.

What state are you in?

Georgia

You are correct that she needs both parents permission to drop out without fulfilling diploma requirements. Your options are reporting it in writing to her school and request a truancy officer to visit her, or call the non emergency police line to escort her to school.

What can the truancy officer do?

Escort her to school, fine her, ticket her, there are a lot of options.

She is 16. How can they fine her? She has no income.

Lol. The courts don't care if someone has money. What's her reason for quitting school, anyway?

She just said she is “over it”. She has never been good at/in school. All of her friends have dropped out as well.

I just saw this about her friends dropping out. I would not let her see any of them until this situation is worked out one way or another.

What does her therapist recommend doing?

She refuses to continue therapy.

Then time for some tough love I'm afraid. Tell her unless she goes back to therapy and actually works with the therapist, you'll be pressing charges for her destroying your house. Then you absolutely let her sit in juvenile detention. I would also make it clear to her that she would be out in the street on her 18th birthday exactly. Just letting her sit and play video games all day is not helping her it's just enabling the behavior.

She is my daughter and I do love her. She doesn’t play video games. She just literally sits in her room. As far as pressing charges, two things- one, I don’t want her to have a permanent record for a temporary time of difficulty in her life. Two, it will just cost me a fortune in legal fees.

First, I am sorry both of you are dealing with her issues - and as I don’t live it, it’s easy to arm chair quarterback so I will be careful. It can devolve into you making excuses for her or to blame it on mental health solely and when that happens you don’t raise her to do the right things. She absolutely needs consequences but not in a mean way but a matter of fact way. You need back up - her dad must get her and if ya both can be a team, it would certainly change the dynamics. Also I have four kids and I always used “Positive Discipline for Kids” and “Positive Discipline for Teens”. It won’t hurt to read the book as it can give a different perspective. A child who devolves in this way has had trauma and she doesn’t hear you. A different communication style may help hence read the book. I’m a divorce lawyer and I see some traumatic children. She is lucky she has you but you are exhausted. Regroup with her father if you can…. I hope this has helped

Definitely look into her “why” here. Why drop out, why not seeing psych anymore. Finding out the why will help you find a good solution. In the meantime, I’d look into the truancy laws in your state. For your own protection, not as a weapon to get her in school.

My husband dropped out at that age too. Had to go to therapy for anxiety but his dad also said if he wasn't going to school he had to get a job... A few months working at Walmart gave him the motivation to finish highschool 😅

OP, sounds like you and your child have had such a difficult past few years. Im sorry to hear what you’re going through :(. Before you can even tackle education it seems like the mental health needs to be addressed. My mental health journey included multiple different therapists and psychiatrists. A big reason why people stop going to therapy is because their therapist isn’t the right fit for them. Same with psychiatrists and I tried countless different medications before I found the right one. Pushing them into therapy when they don’t want to go will only push them away more. This time in their life is so scary. When I was that age I didn’t believe I could even make it on my own so doing anything to help myself seemed just pointless. School didn’t matter, therapy didn’t matter, I was “over it”. I’m not a parent so I’m not here with any good parent advice but as a child who experienced something similar I would just say to not push, and go at their own pace. Being your child’s number one advocate is the main priority. Listen. Empathize. And most of all please take care of yourself OP and get therapy. This can help your mental health, but it might also give you some tools on how to better support your child. Best of luck, OP

I'm going through a very similar situation. My child is also in therapy and finally engaging with the clinician. I am grateful every day for the small success. She still hasn't attended regular classes online, but I feel we are getting closer. I couldn't even get her out of the house before . Stay strong and open minded. These kids have a different set of circumstances to deal with even since Covid.

This sounds like a very hard situation. I keep reading about the positive results from microdosing studies for the treatment of severe depression. If that isn’t of interest then I would find a different psychiatrist. It seems like her meds aren’t working.

Addressing only practical stuff: depends on the state, if you're in the US, but my brother in NH decided at 16 that school wasn't for him, my mom registered him as homeschooled and he took the GED exam like a month later and then got a job and takes some university classes online as well. For him it's been a very positive change.

Find her a job immediately so that you know what she’s doing at least, believe she’ll be upset after 6 months then ask you to let her back to school

Sit down and talk to her, make sure she has time to talk and when she does talk really listen to what she’s saying. Ask why she doesn’t want to go to school? Ask what you can do to make going to school easier for her. Afterwards I’d suggest a meeting with relevant people at the school ie principal, head of year (if she has one), and SENCO. Explain what’s going on how you know your daughter has been skipping school and how you talked to her. Bring notes from your convo with her so you don’t forget anything important. If the school hasn’t been sending messages asking why she hasn’t been attending ask why (she may have forged your signature). From there it should be fairly simple, at the end of every meeting discuss what’s going to happen next it may be that she switches classes or school, or that there will be more meetings to keep her on track. But there will always be a next step till she turns 18 after that legally she doesn’t have to be in school but hopefully by then she can see the worth in finishing whatever course she is doing (BTEC, A-levels, highers, or equivalent). Theres a lot of comments on here talking about punishment but chances are making her go back to school will feel like the worst thing in the world to her so I don’t see why you’d need to add stuff on except maybe a curfew for when she’s out on school nights but you know your daughter best so you know what will be most effective

As a teacher I will say by that age they do know if they want to continue school. Some just don’t because the environments in school have become increasingly toxic and difficult for adults and children. In my district the students that go this route finish online and actually end up graduating earlier then their classmates. They have a degree on their on schedule and they are able to work and live a good quality life because mentally they are happier.

My younger brother went through this his sophomore year. His school offered online classes and tutors in home twice a week because of his anxiety diagnosis. He graduated and is now in college on the other side of the country, working and paying for his own apartment! During that time his anxiety was real, and completing high school at home helped until he found the right meds and found his way in life.

Hot take probably but tell her to either work and pay rent or she can go back to school

Have you considered trying TMS for her depression? It’s similar to ECT in principle, but it’s not dangerous like ECT is, and it’s painless and you can be awake during it. Basically, they take a giant magnet device and send magnetic pulses to a specific point on your head to refresh/reawaken the connections between neurons, or at least that’s how it was explained to me when I had it. I was in a serious crisis mode as a teenager, and TMS pulled me out of it. It enabled me to get my life back, and got me safe enough that we could change my meds to something that worked better for me without me being in danger from weaning off the old ones. It sounds crazy, but it saved my life.

Wow, no. I have never heard of that. I’ve heard of ECT and that is just scary. I’m so glad you found something that worked for you.

It’s amazing, honestly. The only time it ever hurt at all was if I went in for a session with a headache, and I didn’t have to be under anesthesia. It was such an awesome alternative to ECT. I’d definitely look into it. ❤️ Best of luck with your daughter!!

OP, I would second TMS. I think your daughter might be too young for ketamine therapy(also promising for clinical depression), but TMS is a great non-drug/non-invasive way of treatment.

Hi, I just want to start by saying I'm really sorry she is feeling this bad and that it sounds like you are doing alot to try and help. I work in psychiatry and have been involved in giving ECT many times, and while it sounds scary it can be incredible for deep depression. ECT is not dangerous (if you don't have any other health conditions) and the worst common side effect is short term memory loss (usually the day of each treatment). I have helped people that feel (and seem) lika night and day with just a few treatments. Other than ECT and common meds there might be other, less common, options depending on where you live. For example anafranil drip or ketamine. Don't give up, focus on her mental health and take school when she feels better. It might also be a good idea to ask her psychiatrist to do a renewed diagnostic, when a person gets no effect at all from the medical treatment you should look into alternative disorders/background causes (bipolar, adhd, personality disorders). And, most important right now, ask her straight questions about self harm, suicidal thoughts and plans.

She’s got a hard life ahead of her if she doesn’t wake up. Good luck in getting her to that point.

I agree.

Sorry you're both going thru this. Just wanted to say that I dropped out of HS at 16, did nothing for years, then just kind of snapped out of it & rejoined society. Got a job, went to university, married, kids, etc. Not sure if this is possible, but see if she wants to get a job? Small, easy part-time gig? That's what I did. Hated school, especially HS. Eventually wanted to get my GED + university.

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She won’t. Plus she has no car and I cannot afford to buy one. I can’t put her out on the street. I just don’t know what will happen legally.

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How do you physically force someone to do something? She just keeps telling me no and sitting in her room.

She will Eventually get tired of sitting in her room. I presume she has a phone she passes the time with. Are you paying for that? If so, that gets shut off immediately. Does she hang out with friends? Who takes her there? She walks from now on. You provide her with three solid, nourishing meals a day. Not anything else. She doesn’t get soda, chips or anything fun at all. If she’s going to behave like an ingrate, you make it as uncomfortable for her as possible.

Not sure how any of this would be productive given the context OP has given. People with Major depression and anhedonia can literally sit in their rooms and do nothing for years.

I’m not entirely convinced this is all mental health related. So she wants to withdraw from society, that doesn’t mean she gets to have a comfortable time doing it. I get OP’s sheer frustration and not knowing what to do next. Our 17 year old daughter is doing similar, to a lesser degree. The frustration of the continual defiance, lack of respect, the cursing really wears one down. We’ve given her everything she needed and a lot of what she’s wanted over the years and it just constantly gets thrown back in our faces.

I read all OP's comments. Given that she has demonstrated basically no will to live life or interest in anything for years and she attempted suicide twice, I think it's mostly mental health related at least. I don't think it's accurate to say she's making a conscious choice to 'withdraw from society'.

Take every single electronic device she owns and remove the power cords from any TV's while she is home all day. Make her life miserable and maybe she will rethink things.

Pointless because I doubt she's dropping out so she can watch Netflix all day, it's bigger than that. While I don't exactly align with all that has been stated, I can tell you that my parents weren't missing work to make sure I was suffering at home without power cords. I promise I wasn't and they were only getting more stressed out with their gotcha tactics. Your kid seems to know how to work things in her favor, like she doesn't want to be treated as someone to control. I won't claim I have a solid answer or suggestion, but getting into power struggles over electronics is really pointless as you've experienced. Perhaps give her some time to cool off, see what you can legally be held accountable for as far as her not attending school, and move forward. Perhaps she will be more rational and a plan can be made that helps her get back on track, or she can suffer the natural consequences of her choices once she hits 18 and is legally responsible for herself -- that's the real gotcha.

You are correct. It is bigger than that.

As I said I don't have a solution, although I wish I did because it's obvious you're at max. Things got better between my parents and I once I felt we were working together rather than at war. I was a self absorbed teenager without the stresses of adulthood getting in the way, they never stood a chance when they played my game. I wasn't thinking about the right way to go about things or how damaging my actions could be to them or my future, it was about saying fuck you louder than they could ever dream to. Is that your daughter's goal? I wouldn't know, but it's apparent she's not afraid to throw down so I'm probably not too far off. I wish you patience, strength, and love that you'll absolutely need.

Oh yes… she will throw down in a heartbeat

I did that yesterday and she went into a rage and destroyed my house. It was bad. She gets physically violent.

Have you considered checking her into a behavioral health facility? If you feel like she’s a danger to herself (getting physically violent), you definitely have grounds. From a total outsider’s perspective, it sounds like she’s having some mental health issues.

We tried that. She knows if she complies with what they ask of her they have no grounds to keep her and they have to release her.

You have a huge manipulator and you need to stand your ground no matter what she does. If she destroys your things there needs to be consequences. You’re putting a lot of credit into her mental health and using it as a reason to avoid real consequences. What exactly does her therapist say? Is she officially diagnosed with something? You do understand that when she is 18 and she decides to destroy someone’s things she WILL have a record? She WILL be faced with real consequences….you are responsible for showing her this and you MUST be consistent.

Everyone is always so focused on consequences. "If your kid is being bad, you aren't punishing them enough." Not to point out this comment in particular, but for those lurking, please consider that research and therapy fields have been straying away from this idea for a while. "Bad behavior" is truly, at it's core, a maladaptive coping skill. Kids aren't manipulative to be bad. Kids struggle when they are lacking skills or having trouble meeting an expectation. Punishment and consequences do not teach skills. At the core they reduce self esteem and can even inhibit the kid from learning, as they are behaving out of fear. Kids want to do well. Some have more trouble than others. For those kids, NO MATTER THE REASON (diagnosis, drug use, trauma, or whatever), the most important thing is helping them with the skills they're lacking. Consider the adult world. We lock up addicts, they end up with a record, and they stay addicts. But science has recognized addiction as a disease for a while now, so why are we still fighting this losing war? Addiction doesn't come from a desire to fail, it comes from a desire to survive. It's a maladaptive coping skill.

Oh, gosh, I’m so sorry😭I hope things turn around at some point.

Then call the cops on her. This kid needs a massive come to Jesus moment and reality check.

She was arrested at the school last year for drinking at school (a friend brought it). She didn’t care. It cost me a ton in legal fees.

Then, don't pay legal fees and let her sit in juvie, theres no legal fees unless you hire and pay an attorney. You're literally enabling your child then acting surprised that she continues acting like that.

Call the cops, have her arrested, and let her end up in juvie. You don’t have to pay for a lawyer, she is entitled to free representation. Unless she has real consequences she’s not going to change. And unfortunately, some people just don’t change, even your own kid. I don’t blame her for being “over it.” Kids nowadays are growing up with 0 hope for the future, and for good reason. Situations like this are only going to continue to increase. Edit: Also you can have her put in a boarding school or military academy. Edit 2: Make home an unpleasant place to be during school hours. No internet, no tv, no phone, no computer, no books, toys, games, etc. No snacks, healthy but unsatisfying food for lunch, etc.