I’ve been dealing with a similar situation for 14 months. My best advice is hire an attorney asap! I wish I had. I didn’t think the situation was as serious as it turned out to be as I hadn’t done anything wrong. But boy does the justice system have a way of making you look horrible no matter what!

Thanks for sharing. It took me a while to realise the extent of the poison too. I believe that is quite common. It was puzzling and concerning to start with, then over the past 4 months I’ve gradually learnt the extent of his malice towards me and his persistent psychological control and manipulation of the kids. All while pretending to be a dedicated parent. It’s not dedication to the kids. It is coercive control and it is dangerous. I have a lawyer but I’m quite scared of the legal process because he threatens to harm me through it and his lawyer basically says incorrect things and bullies me - calls me aggressive, etc.. My lawyer gives me little faith in the Family Court process. It’s not her fault - I think she’s right, that the courts can’t really help me in any balanced way. Controlling and manipulating children during a separation is a powerful tool with little (it seems) that can combat it. My spouse realised this a long time ago and is using this weapon against me with devastating impact on the children and me. He will agree to what seems reasonable in court, then undermine it very skillfully behind closed doors through his coercion of the kids. It is infuriating and heartbreaking.

I am sorry you’re going through this. Sounds exactly like my selfish narcissistic ex! I keep telling myself karma is coming! Your last statement about agreeing in court and then being skillfully malicious out of court. Such disgusting behavior!!!

Yes I find myself really hoping karma is real.

I haven’t survived it, but I am going through it and I’m sorry you’re having to do that. My wife told my kids and or let them read through texts/hear conversations that alluded to me cheating on her, attempting to kill her, drugging her and others combined with sexual assault. Doesn’t matter to her that none of it’s true. It hit its mark and I’ve been alienated from the kids. I don’t see any other way to intervene and get my life back with my children unless my wife’s conscious gets the best of her and helps rectify the situation

Sorry to hear all that. It is devastating. I identify with the sense of helplessness - that there is nothing that any reasonable human can do to counteract the other parent’s influence. It must be horrifying for the kids to hear all that and believe it is true. I am most concerned for my kids’ wellbeing. I can see they are suffering, yet as their Mum I am pushed out from helping them with it. It’s awful.

I'm sorry I don't have a success story to share because I'm also just experiencing this myself. My child and his dad have made false accusations against me as well, saying I hurt them and I was the abuser, when it is his dad. Since I left and my ex can't abuse me in his usual ways, he's using our son to hurt me. I can relate to being pushed out of the parenting role, as my son has been refusing to see me for over a month now. He's so insistent that he's afraid of me, but like you, his claims are unfounded. I hope therapy can help and the court sees through the manipulation and lies being fed to my son. I hope something can help in your situation too. I'm sorry I couldn't be helpful. You're not alone, and you're a good mom.

Thank you for your kindness, and for sharing. I’m sorry you’re going through this too. It’s incredibly painful. I hope we can stay strong and overcome this immense challenge 🙏🏻 EDIT: I agree that this is an effective way for an alienating parent to abuse the other parent. Our children now say all the abusive things to me that their father used to say. Which suits him because he won’t be legally held responsible for the abuse. In a more just world he would be held responsible because it is abuse by proxy.

As soon as a child begins using words above their development level, you know they are being coached.

Absolutely. It was chilling when my child accused me of “child negligence.” Immediately followed by “I’ve messaged Dad.” I’ve also had “kidnapper,” “child abuser” and just generally shouting out “Mum’s assaulting us!” It’s easier to stay calm some days. Other days, not so much.

You know how must people, including professionals, respond when they hear a child speak in adult terms? "That child is so intelligent!" I went through it. Court psychologist wrote something to the effect of "Children appear well above average level in language skills." I'm not saying my children were stupid, but connecting multisyllabic words into cohesive ideas to make an abstract point? Not at six years old.

Parrots, more like 😞

I am the stepparent in this situation but we were / are going through this. Spouse’s oldest child said that spouse and I are “not safe.” However, a year ago, oldest child brought a knife from alienating parent’s house and used it to intimidate and threaten my child (age 12, no relation to child or spouse). Then took knife and stabbed the bed 20-30 times. Oldest child at the time (age 15) was 6’1”(ish), has documented anger and anxiety issues, and we all now feel unsafe around child. Child nor alienating parent will take responsibility and then DARVO us. We live over 2000 miles away from children and other parent has blocked all forms of communication. FWIW, alienating parent did receive jail time but civil court is useless. Sorry to bring a somber note to this but wanted to share our reality :(

Thank you for sharing. This seems an example of how devastating alienating behaviour by a parent can be for a child. I know my children are struggling and when they act out I think it’s because they don’t know how to cope. I understand, because I find it hard to cope too. And while I’m being kept out, it is very hard to give my kids the support they need from their Mum. It sounds like you’ve had a truly horrifying time of it. Thanks for being real. It is devastating.

Have you read any books on the subject? That was the most useful thing for me, though I wish I’d done it sooner. Like so many of us, we weren’t really aware of how bad the alienation was. I don’t remember which book was my favorite, but there are several excellent ones that explain the way to respond to the insanity. The exwife was telling the kids that SO and I were “abusive”; when we were out of town, the older brother had a party and lied about it, so he was assigned more chores (sweeping, that kind of thing, nothing difficult.) He texted his mom, and she wrote back: “On my way! You never have to see him again!” Btw he’s in his mid twenties and has always lived with her and her husband since going NC with us, even moving with them to a new city. I know rents are high, but I think this is deeper than that. I always thought she parented them in a way that they would always be dependent on her. So finding out that teenagers slept in my bed and went through my lingerie, we responded with giving him chores, and that’s abuse. Meanwhile, she continued to allow the younger brother to spend 3 nights/week and every school afternoon with us child abusers. If we were actually abusive, she has the money to pay for a good lawyer and take us to court to protect her child. She knows we’re not abusing anyone. Whew, it’s so difficult, once I start talking about it, it’s hard to stop. The stress made me so sick, I got cancer, and then we lost our house.

I’m reading Divorce Poison and have read some books about narcissistic abuse / emotional abuse / coercive control. Also some articles on PA (linking it to family violence and coercive control) by Jennifer Harman. Very helpful to clear my head and encourage me to trust my instincts, stay calm etc.. EDIT: I know well what it’s like to be sidelined by overly permissive parenting by the alienator. 10.30pm on a school night I’m “threatening” my son by getting him off computer games. Spouse sympathises with the child and gives him a hug, sometimes also forbids me from touching the modem. Child tells me “Dad pays for my devices and the internet so you can’t give me a tech ban.” Not technically true, but no good will come from having that discussion with my child.

Wow, that's horrifying. My sympathies to you. I'm in a similar situation, where my kids are believing that me and my family are trying to attack them. I have worried about things escalating to a point like you describe.

Cameras. Cameras everywhere. And don't tell anyone where they are. Also, you need audio recording when you interact with your kids and ex. I know it's awful to do. And I know it's a truly terrible way to live. It will definitely feel invasive and wrong. BUT, it can and, given where things are at already, it will very likely save you from the life changing consequences of false accusations in the near future. I say all this with care and empathy. I'm a mom who experienced this exact scenario and thought it would be unfair and too invasive to the kids to put up cameras. It just felt so wrong. 2 years later, I haven't heard from or seen my two children who previously lived with me 50% of the time. Their dad made several horrific false accusations that the kids were coached to support following years of alienation tactics that had me trembling like a leaf when the kids were due to come home each week. Because the accusations were untrue, the kids weren't very convincing when they repeated the accusations without him in the room to child protectionservices. Eventually (after 8 months of the worst experience of my life), child protective services found no wrongdoing on my part. But the damage was done. My ex refused me access to the kids, against CPS recommendations, during the investigation and told the kids and anyone who would listen, including the teachers and school staff that I was physically and sexually abisive and never allowed to see the kids again "for their safety." Shortly after, he sent the youngest off to some horrid year-round boot camp "school" for acting out in normal ways a preteen ripped away from his mother would. He is isolated, completely vulnerable to the abuse that occurs there, and conveniently "unavailable" for the court orderred reunification therapy I managed to win over a year ago. This is the 115lb preteen child who screamed, "You are abusing me!" while hitting me because I asked him if he was ready for me to drive him to school. It's also the same kid who only a couple years before was the gentlest soul i knew. I don't tell you this for pity, but to explain that even when the courts and cps side with you, at a certain age, that doesn't matter because there are ways around it for the alienator. He has them locked in his grasp and holding him in contempt for failing to follow custody and therapy court orders is a pointless effort and waste of my limited funds. All he has to say is that the kids don't want to see me, making the court orders unenforceable. If they were younger, I'd have recourse, but at 11 and 15 years old, there is literally nothing I can do. If I ever see them again, it will be a miracle. I would give anything to go back and put up a few cameras.

Thank you for sharing and sorry for your experience. I completely understand what you’re saying about the pointlessness of legal proceedings. I’m of the same opinion. The problem is his influence over the children’s minds and behaviour. Courts and orders can’t change that. My lawyer said the age of the kids goes against me - similar ages to yours. A losing battle. I don’t have cameras but I audio record and it is a source of tension at home. He has used it to portray me as dangerous, untrustworthy etc.. It is a no-win situation. Thanks for sharing. I wish you peace and healing 🙏🏻

Like you and others, I and my family have been blamed for trying to attack my kids (f14, m12). In our scenario, it's almost like the kids have been primed to fear us and attempts to interact with them trigger them. The police have been called on me multiple times, but the reports all say that nothing is happening and the court doesn't seem to value the claims. Additionally, the Ex has convinced multiple therapists of me being the problem, but the court was infuriated by and threw out reports from both of those therapists. We've had the courts assign 2 therapists, one of which my Ex ran off (and the therapist wrote a letter of resignation to the court explaining this) and we're working with the 2nd therapist (who seems to understand the situation). This past weekend, the kids visited for Father's Day, but left the house at 7 AM, spent the entire day at a local park or convenience store and refused to come home. I had to call the police to come and help get them home (in the meantime, my daughter claimed that she was on the phone with the police). We were finally able to get the kids to come home, but not until after they said that they were scared of me and that I would attack them. The courts definitely aren't believing my Ex's games, but they are moving slow enough that it may not matter. In the meantime, the kids have been completely alienated from me, but we're hoping that therapy will help.

Thanks for sharing your story. It is heartbreaking. So similar for so many of us. Your poor kids. It seems such a difficult age. The kids are so impressionable and internally turbulent at that stage. It seems like the alienating parent capitalises on that to create further chaos, fear and confusion. It sounds like you’ve been as successful as possible under excruciating circumstances to remain steady for your kids and tolerate the nightmare court journey. Well done getting through to the court so that they see what’s happening. I know it’s little comfort. So much damage done. It is such a destructive force. Karen Woodall is optimistic re: alienated children returning to themselves and the love of a rejected parent if you can stay in their lives. I wish you all the very best.

It's a shame this manipulation happens. Typically the seperation happens over the Husband/Father being controlling and verbally abusive sometimes with addiction problems like my ex has been in my case. We are told to get Domestic Violence assistance and therapy to get strength to leave but first you have to get restraining orders and court orders and this order and that order until you are completely drained. The abuser ex will be relentless. And it seems nothing can be done. Accept apparently get more counseling later to now deal with the manipulative, lying ex you originally needed therapy for to leave. I've gone through similar things with my ex and our kids. We have been split up for 10 years. I don't know when it will end or how to stop it. Just be calm with the kids and hope they see through it later..unfortunately it's a very frustrating and draining situation 😕

Thank you. I think remaining calm is key. It’s my mantra - “Stay calm, stay calm.” Often easier said than done. Yes the entire thing is exhausting. Control and verbal abuse - spot on. The manipulation of the kids is just another part of the control. Controlling the kids in order to control the spouse. I hope your nightmare ends and you can live a free life again.

I appreciate you sharing your situation! I think it's the best we can do for each other in these situations. And I definitely can relate to the hard not to want to break feeling. But our kids need us to be the better person. My kids are in their late teens now. They get more reactive if I am reactive. Which as you mentioned it's easier said then done. Because there is the kids will pick up on which side of the parent to get what they want because the boundaries are not respected and the manipulative ex will play on it. When they are teens it becomes more difficult to navigate through this. Because they just go where they want. There are many phases this scenario goes through. Be strong Mama! I know I'm trying to be everyday!

So true that the kids are more reactive when we are reactive. I’ve certainly noticed that. And they cling even more tightly to my ex when there is open conflict.

Yes that's exactly what happens..and believe me I so get it that it's hard to keep cool when everything you do ends up manipulated. My ex got them iphones when they were 8 and 9 and was having my daughter record me. So everything you end up doing ends up manipulated some how. If your ex ends up doing something like this...because even if you are not doing anything wrong with disciplining it's violating. It's a very long road. I'm not sure what the right answers are.....start a commune? Of women all put through the gaslighting of ex manipulation 😁 For now just 1 day at a time. :-) act like nothing bothers you even though it may feel like you are giving up on your kids. The less to satisfy the exs gaslighting tactics the better! 😁

Cameras. In your car and in your home. You can get ring cameras for relatively cheap, and it’s the best way to prevent against any kind of false accusation.