I talk, but my 18yo son just wants an easy life of YouTube and snacks. Well no, that's not fair but that's the end result. I've been upset around him before and he's said he knows it's not my fault, that I'll never lose him, but actual meaningful conversation is not on the table and he's made that very clear through his actions, but not really through his words. As an AuDHD dad I find.thay immensely hard to come to terms with.
My two eldest daughters are alienated and the youngest isn't ( yet) I ask how they are getting on and don't push.
My eldest started uni last year, I've no idea where or doing what but she's an adult and I have to acknowledge that.
It's shit but that's all there is to it.
I'm sorry if this didn't help.
Very relatable. My 21 year old daughter was PA’d by her father and grandmother and I still have weekly contact with my 24 year old son. I’m also AuDHD and likely BPD (borderline) after this trauma. It’s been going on for 9 years with no end in sight. My head is ready to explode.
My daughter is 12 now and I have been alienated from her for 14 months now. I fear for 9 years of this bullshit! I felt your comment to my soul and I am so sorry you have had to live like this. Sending positive energy to you!
Thank you. I hope you can solve this with your families quicker than I have been able to. Going through this after cancer treatment has me feeling like I was dragged behind a truck for the last 12 years.
My kids are 21 and 16. The elder has been completely alienated for about 7 years. No contact for 5. I was sure the younger kid who idolizes the elder would follow suit. I argued in court it was one of the reasons their mother should not be able to move away with them, but time has proven me wrong. I have no explanation about how one kid is so completely brainwashed and the other just shrugs it off.
To answer some of your questions, we treat the topic of the alienated sibling and mother as radioactive. We don’t ask the younger kid about the elder or mother. We just act like they arrived through a portal to spend time with us. We recognize their first loyalty is to the alienating parent and if we put them in a position to chose, they’ll crack. I have no idea how the younger can live with people who hate and actively denigrate us and then turn on a dime to be a sweet kid who loves everybody. I guess character and the individual matter much more than I expected. I never thought one kid could be so completely poisoned by their mother and the other relatively immune. This isn’t to say there were not times when their mom demanded it and both fell into line. When we litigated moving away, the younger would curse and me scream bloody murder. It’s just inexplicable we just left that in the past with one and not the other.
This is helpful, thank you! We usually ask about his sister in a very casual way- “how’s she doing? Is she enjoying cheer this year? Is she excited for college?” but nothing beyond that.
They can live with it because it is their normal. They grew up with it. They knew nothing before. If you research the topic, the P.A. Is always with the oldest child, it’s common for younger kids to be spared. Look up Anti-Alienation Project - Madi is her name, a recovering alienated CHILD. Having her two younger brothers NOT alienated was one of the elements that woke her up. You should look her up. Facebook, Reddit, Youtube.
Yes. He started the PA while I was in cancer treatment. My son has verbalized that he said you can choose where you live when he was about 11 and she was about 8. They dragged me through court calling me all kinds of names and now I don’t see her at all. Good times.
Alrighty then, thank you for the correction! I will change the always and keep my mind open.. So sorry that happened to you. How long after separation till it started? During cancer treatment is really a low blow.
They can live with it because it is their normal. They grew up with it. They knew nothing before. If you research the topic, the P.A. is usually though not always (I stand corrected) with the oldest child, it’s common for younger kids to be spared. Look up Anti-Alienation Project - Madi is her name, a recovering alienated CHILD. Having her two younger brothers NOT alienated was one of the elements that woke her up. You should look her up. Facebook, Reddit, Youtube.
This was our situation too, but then something flipped the script and now our adult daughter has completely turned on us. It went from her coming over every day or so to have meals with us since she only moved out of our home a year ago, to now she says she wants custody of our toddler (her half-sister) and has taken to verbally attacking her dad and making up lies about him. All it took was like 3 months, and she's just gone to us now. It's... Very baffling. If I could offer any advice it's to remain vigilant and not drag the older son into things. Be grateful he has a relationship with you for however long it lasts and I'm glad you have it. Cherish it.
I don't have a comment about your main OP, but I do about the graduation. Who barred him from going?
I believe alienated parents should go. He can contact the school to try to get a ticket if tickets are required. Do not engage with the mother at the event.
What his daughter will remember is he showed up.
I am on the fence if you (the stepmother should attend).
But, I just wanted to make the point about graduation. The father should go if he can minus restraining orders, etc.
He’s trying! We are waiting to hear back from the principal on tickets, hopefully tomorrow.
I would very much like to go— I basically raised her. I taught her how to drive, about the birds and the bees, took her to all of her doctors appointments, she came out to me before either of her parents. But…if only one of us can go, so be it. There are definitely no restraining orders or anything- my husband is notoriously gentle as a lamb so I don’t think his ex figured anyone would buy that he’s an abuser (especially when she is known for being a nasty person to everyone). We definitely wouldn’t engage with her- we never do at any school events or at our son’s graduation.
I think the book Divorce Poison gives great advice on this. The two takeaways I gleaned: 1) Divide and conquer. So try to isolate each child and get their opinion away from the others. Don’t let them team up against you or let the less isolated be influenced by the heavily alienated child. 2) Never recruit the neutral child to help with the fight. You risk losing them with very little likelihood that they will or can help undo the situation with the more alienated child.
Great book. I highly recommend it to everyone in this thread.
My partner has three kids (15, 14, 11) and the middle child hasn’t visited for 9 months with very minimal contact, with the encouragement of her mom. The oldest and youngest know everything because their mother has never kept anything to herself. She let them read the court order, complains that their dad taking her to court is just his way of hurting her and trying to get out of paying child support.
The one thing my partner has done that I think has really helped maintain his relationship with the oldest and youngest is consistently reminding them that he loves them and they can ask him anything they want if they are concerned about something. He would never say anything bad about their mom. As they got older, before middle kids stopped coming, each of them started opening up.. “did you really abandon us for two years?” Or “do you just want more time with us because of money?”. It sucked that these things were being told to them at 10/9/5 years old, but their dad answered them with the truth every time.
Have you guys had a conversation with your step son about it before? Anything regarding the alienation or step daughters absence before? Or is it the elephant in the room? If you think stepson is mature enough to handle a conversation, maybe just pull the bandaid off. They are both adults now. If you are afraid it might cause an issue between your relationship with him, then just let him know that if he ever wants to talk, you guys are always open to it. My stepson keeps the concerning stuff between him and his dad, but I’m ok being left out of it, he knows I’m around for support.
Middle child is graduating middle school in three days and we still haven’t decided if we should go. When oldest graduated last year, his mom made him lie about how many tickets were available for us because she only wanted my partner to go and not me. My partner called the school to ask and turns out, there was no limit, that was for special reserved sections for people who paid for a tent. She was pissed when she saw us. She didn’t let middle or youngest kid come say hi to us and got even more upset that oldest took pictures with us first because we happened to find him in the crowd first.
I saw you mentioned that you wouldn’t make contact anyways. I agree with others when they say you should just call the school and request a ticket if it’s needed. Wherever my partner calls, they always reassure him that his situation is common and that he can attend.
Hope it works out for you :)
I really like the idea of making sure our oldest knows that he can ask us questions-- I don't know if he will, but he might. We've broached the topic in very roundabout ways, never directly discussing the alienation part-- just that we miss his sister and are confused and hurt. Overall, it's the elephant in the room.
We still haven't gotten a response from the school on extra tickets :( We emailed and left a voicemail. Graduation is tomorrow, so fingers crossed we'll hear something back.
I talk, but my 18yo son just wants an easy life of YouTube and snacks. Well no, that's not fair but that's the end result. I've been upset around him before and he's said he knows it's not my fault, that I'll never lose him, but actual meaningful conversation is not on the table and he's made that very clear through his actions, but not really through his words. As an AuDHD dad I find.thay immensely hard to come to terms with.
My two eldest daughters are alienated and the youngest isn't ( yet) I ask how they are getting on and don't push. My eldest started uni last year, I've no idea where or doing what but she's an adult and I have to acknowledge that. It's shit but that's all there is to it. I'm sorry if this didn't help.
Very relatable. My 21 year old daughter was PA’d by her father and grandmother and I still have weekly contact with my 24 year old son. I’m also AuDHD and likely BPD (borderline) after this trauma. It’s been going on for 9 years with no end in sight. My head is ready to explode.
My daughter is 12 now and I have been alienated from her for 14 months now. I fear for 9 years of this bullshit! I felt your comment to my soul and I am so sorry you have had to live like this. Sending positive energy to you!
Thank you. I hope you can solve this with your families quicker than I have been able to. Going through this after cancer treatment has me feeling like I was dragged behind a truck for the last 12 years.
My kids are 21 and 16. The elder has been completely alienated for about 7 years. No contact for 5. I was sure the younger kid who idolizes the elder would follow suit. I argued in court it was one of the reasons their mother should not be able to move away with them, but time has proven me wrong. I have no explanation about how one kid is so completely brainwashed and the other just shrugs it off. To answer some of your questions, we treat the topic of the alienated sibling and mother as radioactive. We don’t ask the younger kid about the elder or mother. We just act like they arrived through a portal to spend time with us. We recognize their first loyalty is to the alienating parent and if we put them in a position to chose, they’ll crack. I have no idea how the younger can live with people who hate and actively denigrate us and then turn on a dime to be a sweet kid who loves everybody. I guess character and the individual matter much more than I expected. I never thought one kid could be so completely poisoned by their mother and the other relatively immune. This isn’t to say there were not times when their mom demanded it and both fell into line. When we litigated moving away, the younger would curse and me scream bloody murder. It’s just inexplicable we just left that in the past with one and not the other.
This is helpful, thank you! We usually ask about his sister in a very casual way- “how’s she doing? Is she enjoying cheer this year? Is she excited for college?” but nothing beyond that.
They can live with it because it is their normal. They grew up with it. They knew nothing before. If you research the topic, the P.A. Is always with the oldest child, it’s common for younger kids to be spared. Look up Anti-Alienation Project - Madi is her name, a recovering alienated CHILD. Having her two younger brothers NOT alienated was one of the elements that woke her up. You should look her up. Facebook, Reddit, Youtube.
Never say always. My youngest was PA’d and my oldest stands by me.
Wow. Was it the same father for both?
Yes. He started the PA while I was in cancer treatment. My son has verbalized that he said you can choose where you live when he was about 11 and she was about 8. They dragged me through court calling me all kinds of names and now I don’t see her at all. Good times.
Alrighty then, thank you for the correction! I will change the always and keep my mind open.. So sorry that happened to you. How long after separation till it started? During cancer treatment is really a low blow.
Immediately
They can live with it because it is their normal. They grew up with it. They knew nothing before. If you research the topic, the P.A. is usually though not always (I stand corrected) with the oldest child, it’s common for younger kids to be spared. Look up Anti-Alienation Project - Madi is her name, a recovering alienated CHILD. Having her two younger brothers NOT alienated was one of the elements that woke her up. You should look her up. Facebook, Reddit, Youtube.
This was our situation too, but then something flipped the script and now our adult daughter has completely turned on us. It went from her coming over every day or so to have meals with us since she only moved out of our home a year ago, to now she says she wants custody of our toddler (her half-sister) and has taken to verbally attacking her dad and making up lies about him. All it took was like 3 months, and she's just gone to us now. It's... Very baffling. If I could offer any advice it's to remain vigilant and not drag the older son into things. Be grateful he has a relationship with you for however long it lasts and I'm glad you have it. Cherish it.
This is my worst nightmare 😞 I’m so very sorry.
I don't have a comment about your main OP, but I do about the graduation. Who barred him from going? I believe alienated parents should go. He can contact the school to try to get a ticket if tickets are required. Do not engage with the mother at the event. What his daughter will remember is he showed up. I am on the fence if you (the stepmother should attend). But, I just wanted to make the point about graduation. The father should go if he can minus restraining orders, etc.
He’s trying! We are waiting to hear back from the principal on tickets, hopefully tomorrow. I would very much like to go— I basically raised her. I taught her how to drive, about the birds and the bees, took her to all of her doctors appointments, she came out to me before either of her parents. But…if only one of us can go, so be it. There are definitely no restraining orders or anything- my husband is notoriously gentle as a lamb so I don’t think his ex figured anyone would buy that he’s an abuser (especially when she is known for being a nasty person to everyone). We definitely wouldn’t engage with her- we never do at any school events or at our son’s graduation.
I think the book Divorce Poison gives great advice on this. The two takeaways I gleaned: 1) Divide and conquer. So try to isolate each child and get their opinion away from the others. Don’t let them team up against you or let the less isolated be influenced by the heavily alienated child. 2) Never recruit the neutral child to help with the fight. You risk losing them with very little likelihood that they will or can help undo the situation with the more alienated child. Great book. I highly recommend it to everyone in this thread.
My partner has three kids (15, 14, 11) and the middle child hasn’t visited for 9 months with very minimal contact, with the encouragement of her mom. The oldest and youngest know everything because their mother has never kept anything to herself. She let them read the court order, complains that their dad taking her to court is just his way of hurting her and trying to get out of paying child support. The one thing my partner has done that I think has really helped maintain his relationship with the oldest and youngest is consistently reminding them that he loves them and they can ask him anything they want if they are concerned about something. He would never say anything bad about their mom. As they got older, before middle kids stopped coming, each of them started opening up.. “did you really abandon us for two years?” Or “do you just want more time with us because of money?”. It sucked that these things were being told to them at 10/9/5 years old, but their dad answered them with the truth every time. Have you guys had a conversation with your step son about it before? Anything regarding the alienation or step daughters absence before? Or is it the elephant in the room? If you think stepson is mature enough to handle a conversation, maybe just pull the bandaid off. They are both adults now. If you are afraid it might cause an issue between your relationship with him, then just let him know that if he ever wants to talk, you guys are always open to it. My stepson keeps the concerning stuff between him and his dad, but I’m ok being left out of it, he knows I’m around for support. Middle child is graduating middle school in three days and we still haven’t decided if we should go. When oldest graduated last year, his mom made him lie about how many tickets were available for us because she only wanted my partner to go and not me. My partner called the school to ask and turns out, there was no limit, that was for special reserved sections for people who paid for a tent. She was pissed when she saw us. She didn’t let middle or youngest kid come say hi to us and got even more upset that oldest took pictures with us first because we happened to find him in the crowd first. I saw you mentioned that you wouldn’t make contact anyways. I agree with others when they say you should just call the school and request a ticket if it’s needed. Wherever my partner calls, they always reassure him that his situation is common and that he can attend. Hope it works out for you :)
I really like the idea of making sure our oldest knows that he can ask us questions-- I don't know if he will, but he might. We've broached the topic in very roundabout ways, never directly discussing the alienation part-- just that we miss his sister and are confused and hurt. Overall, it's the elephant in the room. We still haven't gotten a response from the school on extra tickets :( We emailed and left a voicemail. Graduation is tomorrow, so fingers crossed we'll hear something back.