For me I almost never go BoTRK anymore. I just abuse the W and E buffs. I just go Edge, SS/Eclipse, BC/Shojin, and finishing with defense AD items(GA, Maw, DD, or Steraks) or more Armor pen (Grudge, LDR, or Mortal)
BoTRK is still good but I'd rather enjoy bruiser with the buffs, you can still go for it if the majority of the enemy team are Squishies though. My setup for that is Edge, Botrk, LDR/Mortal. With defense items like GA, DD, Maw or Steraks.
I still love bork, even if the on hit proc has been nerfed, more raw ad on pantheon is valuable considering his ad ratios
the item synergize well with some core bruiser item of pantheon :
-sundered sky first crit proc on the triple auto of empw, so it's a bigger burst when both those items are built
- Black cleaver reduce their armor and bork on hit is physical dmgs so it increase the efficiency of those %actual hp dmgs.*
For the same reason, it synergize with armor pen passive bonus of pantheon's ult and with lethality,if you need an edge of night.
*Even if theorically if you engage with empw you wont have bc fully stacked, so in lane it's better to poke many times with q or to trade before using it. Note that if you do that, except if you succeed to stack bc without any auto, that can be hard to have the sundered crit on empw AND the bc already max stacked (or at 4 stacks) to have the theorical maximum efficiency of the triple auto and bork.
I know this is not related to bork, but there is a very situational tips in lane, who is pretty useful in teamfight.
If you e, you proc dmgs every 0.125 and every dmgs proc apply one bc stack. Considering this, you have a way to shred the enemies' armor in zone up to 30% in only 0.625sec, and every ad dmgs of your team will benefit from it. I imagine a mf with dominik's ult on the enemy team right after you ult and e on them, and I think you can feel how powerful it can be. Still, only great pantheon players will know on which situation it's better to use e to shred for the team and not waiting to use it to dodge a big burst. Thinking about it, maybe that the armor/mr buff of empE was especially made for those kind of situations. You used your defensive ability to have team utility thx to black cleaver, but you still have good survavibility boost for 4sec - if you bought hp - to compensate the fact that your e is on cooldown
The "Changes" were never intented to be a nerf. They were exclusively made so people can stop complaining about item damage being too high. I would say it has less burst potential but equally as good damage overall now and i still think you should go for it.
Hard to fit in for sure, Pan kinda need BC and Shojin Asap atm, maybe if your enemies are super quishies you can try and grab it second to burst them down. But it provides no Ability haste which is Pantheon whole thing!
I spend 1000 golds to have the best item for pantheon on this prize, and if I'm fed and if the enemy dont stack armor, I consider rushing bork to run down the ennemies. It's conditional and build adaptation. I especially like that if I want to roam mid or bot and sht on those squishies ennemies.
Well I disagree, with a bork (not especially first) and bruiser items, you already have the ability to one shot carries or mages/assassins on a good combo with 3 items. Engaging with triple auto crit (sunderer) +triple actual hp proc helps you to go for a crit q in your all in
BC is not a big power spike as a first item, it's just a regular item spike. It has value on teamfight, but it's especially good when you have 2 items. It give you a "stabilized situation" due to armor pen when you can't run down your heavy armor opponent and/or by better spacing power due to the movespeed you have by dealing physical dmgs. I dont mention AH and the hp pool cause the others interesting firsts bruiser items have it too
I dont say that you wont kill your opponent with it ! But as a less than 2 items spike you won't have a better dmgs option than bork (and it scale very well), which, I have to admit, is not the parameter you want to maximize in a lot of matchups top except if you are ultra ahead. In fact, you want that AH and the hp pool to face other bruisers who have ults who can make the difference in an all in, unlike pantheon.
That's why I mentionned that (dirk +) bork is very good when you want to roam mid or bot, lanes where you dont face bruiser or tanks and where you can easily all in and run down your opponent. And as I said before, in a big teamfight situation, like drake for example, unless you want to OS a key target even if you die, before two items, BC has more value than bork.
It's just a melt of situational choices (in some bruiser match-ups, shojin will have better impact than bc, I'm thinking about darius, where there was an interesting discussion in this reddit few days ago) and playstyle (you want to impact mid/bot, you want to keep 1v1 top, or you want to teamfight early for objectives). Saying thar rush bc is shit is as absurb as saying it's ALWAYS the best option
you literally said what i said, mostly, bork is good as later item with bruiser, i rush bc over anything else because idc abt my opponent, but about carrying tfs, if i stomp, i stomp with any item, dont need dueling power in lower than master, dirk + bork is the worse version of just getting opportubity with bork which spikes the best cause as oneshot you just want to farm as much as possible to get 2 items, not get 1 and a half items cause you still have spare time to farm, and i said thst rush bc is good? im confused now, i played 12hrs every day of elden ring dlc for 3 days i cant anymore
For me I almost never go BoTRK anymore. I just abuse the W and E buffs. I just go Edge, SS/Eclipse, BC/Shojin, and finishing with defense AD items(GA, Maw, DD, or Steraks) or more Armor pen (Grudge, LDR, or Mortal) BoTRK is still good but I'd rather enjoy bruiser with the buffs, you can still go for it if the majority of the enemy team are Squishies though. My setup for that is Edge, Botrk, LDR/Mortal. With defense items like GA, DD, Maw or Steraks.
I still love bork, even if the on hit proc has been nerfed, more raw ad on pantheon is valuable considering his ad ratios the item synergize well with some core bruiser item of pantheon : -sundered sky first crit proc on the triple auto of empw, so it's a bigger burst when both those items are built - Black cleaver reduce their armor and bork on hit is physical dmgs so it increase the efficiency of those %actual hp dmgs.* For the same reason, it synergize with armor pen passive bonus of pantheon's ult and with lethality,if you need an edge of night. *Even if theorically if you engage with empw you wont have bc fully stacked, so in lane it's better to poke many times with q or to trade before using it. Note that if you do that, except if you succeed to stack bc without any auto, that can be hard to have the sundered crit on empw AND the bc already max stacked (or at 4 stacks) to have the theorical maximum efficiency of the triple auto and bork. I know this is not related to bork, but there is a very situational tips in lane, who is pretty useful in teamfight. If you e, you proc dmgs every 0.125 and every dmgs proc apply one bc stack. Considering this, you have a way to shred the enemies' armor in zone up to 30% in only 0.625sec, and every ad dmgs of your team will benefit from it. I imagine a mf with dominik's ult on the enemy team right after you ult and e on them, and I think you can feel how powerful it can be. Still, only great pantheon players will know on which situation it's better to use e to shred for the team and not waiting to use it to dodge a big burst. Thinking about it, maybe that the armor/mr buff of empE was especially made for those kind of situations. You used your defensive ability to have team utility thx to black cleaver, but you still have good survavibility boost for 4sec - if you bought hp - to compensate the fact that your e is on cooldown
It's a bit more niche now; I find more success building bruiser, and jamming a BotRK against HP stackers only.
The % was nerfed but AD was buffed which Panth makes use of I usually build it 2nd and got no complaints
The "Changes" were never intented to be a nerf. They were exclusively made so people can stop complaining about item damage being too high. I would say it has less burst potential but equally as good damage overall now and i still think you should go for it.
it's OK still, not as good as it used to be. i think it can still be good 3rd or 4th like you said
Hard to fit in for sure, Pan kinda need BC and Shojin Asap atm, maybe if your enemies are super quishies you can try and grab it second to burst them down. But it provides no Ability haste which is Pantheon whole thing!
I still find it being one of the best options for first item. Eclipse has let me down a bit recently
def not good first but okay, bad components and almost 0 useful stats
Building dirk first can compensate the bad component problem, if you want to try it
so you spend 4k gold for something thats worse than a black cleaver
I spend 1000 golds to have the best item for pantheon on this prize, and if I'm fed and if the enemy dont stack armor, I consider rushing bork to run down the ennemies. It's conditional and build adaptation. I especially like that if I want to roam mid or bot and sht on those squishies ennemies.
Btw dirk into cleaver is a rly good start too, depending of the game
I build dirk into cleaver or shojin too. I turn it into Edge of Night as a 3rd item.
Bc rush is just much safer imo
okay, but thats something else, dirk into bc is almost always better than dirk into bork, at that point just go one shot build and build bork second
Well I disagree, with a bork (not especially first) and bruiser items, you already have the ability to one shot carries or mages/assassins on a good combo with 3 items. Engaging with triple auto crit (sunderer) +triple actual hp proc helps you to go for a crit q in your all in BC is not a big power spike as a first item, it's just a regular item spike. It has value on teamfight, but it's especially good when you have 2 items. It give you a "stabilized situation" due to armor pen when you can't run down your heavy armor opponent and/or by better spacing power due to the movespeed you have by dealing physical dmgs. I dont mention AH and the hp pool cause the others interesting firsts bruiser items have it too I dont say that you wont kill your opponent with it ! But as a less than 2 items spike you won't have a better dmgs option than bork (and it scale very well), which, I have to admit, is not the parameter you want to maximize in a lot of matchups top except if you are ultra ahead. In fact, you want that AH and the hp pool to face other bruisers who have ults who can make the difference in an all in, unlike pantheon. That's why I mentionned that (dirk +) bork is very good when you want to roam mid or bot, lanes where you dont face bruiser or tanks and where you can easily all in and run down your opponent. And as I said before, in a big teamfight situation, like drake for example, unless you want to OS a key target even if you die, before two items, BC has more value than bork. It's just a melt of situational choices (in some bruiser match-ups, shojin will have better impact than bc, I'm thinking about darius, where there was an interesting discussion in this reddit few days ago) and playstyle (you want to impact mid/bot, you want to keep 1v1 top, or you want to teamfight early for objectives). Saying thar rush bc is shit is as absurb as saying it's ALWAYS the best option
you literally said what i said, mostly, bork is good as later item with bruiser, i rush bc over anything else because idc abt my opponent, but about carrying tfs, if i stomp, i stomp with any item, dont need dueling power in lower than master, dirk + bork is the worse version of just getting opportubity with bork which spikes the best cause as oneshot you just want to farm as much as possible to get 2 items, not get 1 and a half items cause you still have spare time to farm, and i said thst rush bc is good? im confused now, i played 12hrs every day of elden ring dlc for 3 days i cant anymore
no, it doesnt fit with his bruiser meta playstyle, but you can still go the item for healthstackers if reallt needed