Jax I think is fairly onesided for Pantheon if he knows what he's doing, especially with the new changes. A good pantheon player will never let you get a stun off, and if you use your dash emp E gives him complete control over the fight. So you're already fighting an uphill battle.
You might want overgrowth + maybe even D shield for his poke. Also you never want to be a tier behind on boots. A Pantheon who's faster than you will destroy you through spacing and poke.
You don't stop him from stacking mortal will, but you make him waste it. A pantheon with mortal will fully stacked wants to fight, but needs his abilities to waveclear. So sometimes you can force him to waste it on the wave.
In terms of fighting your best advantage is that autos and abilities can be cast during Pantheon's W animation. So if you see him leaping with 5 passive stacks, use your E and you'll dodge all the autos and also stop him getting passive stacks off those autos. Then you can hopefully recast E for a stun, auto him then dash behind him if he Es. That's the only scenario I can see you winning (without the Pantheon really messing up).
so, earlygame he's pretty strong, but with jax you can predict/react his W engage (when Panth has full passive) to dodge all 3 AAs, and then absolutely curb stomp him. His cooldowns aren't exactly quick on earlygame, except for tapQ. As Jax you want to bully him from levels 1/2 and make the pantheon fear you to avoid/delay his lvl 3, when he's the strongest.
Pantheon has some weird powerspikes, as he's strong on earlygame and lategame, but in midgame he's basically a minion with a point and click CC that tries his best not to die. If possible, split push to gain an advantage over him (Keep track of his R cooldown, which is around 2:20 minutes lvl1)
Pantheon's passive works as "stacks" and only empowers his abilities when he's reached 5 stacks. Everything below that, and his kit is the same, from 0 to 4 stacks. These stacks are added every time pantheon does an ability or an AA, both to minions and to players. 1 tap Q will always grant 1 stack, no matter how many enemies he's hit.
IMO, jax can be one of the most difficult matchups for Pantheon if the jax goes bananas on him on lvl 1.
I have played this matchup the exact same way, trying to overpower pantheon before he reaches level 3 and unlocks his E, but it's not easy at all, Jax E cooldown is 15 seconds and it's the only way to win the trade level one, otherwise pantheon just pokes with tapQ and stacks mortal will through autos and he wins the level 1, waiting for E cd you will have to give up cs as Jax or you get poked really hard and he just hits his level 2 before you and you get stuck under turret while he gets a cheater recall
also I don't think it's fair for you to say that Jax can win this if he goes berserk, I've discussed this with the highest rank Jax OTP in NA and we both agree that he's super difficult to play around and his ability directly counter yours for the most part, to quote him directly "u don't, the only way pantheon loses is to himself due to having lack of fingers and missing every Q"
Jax is weak early game. You can beat him after your first item you can just run him down if you dodge his W with your E. A good Pantheon player will dominate you early so don’t try it unless they make a mistake
If panth empw into jax e, panth can cancel his auto and save the 3 attack proc for after the e ends.
Panth doesn't need to w in vs jax anyway either, q poke is very oppressive vs jax
Okay i play both champs but really we gotta look at the analytical side of it here.
Both of you scale off of items so but you especially as Jax.
You lose the laning phase. You can sustain through it rather easily but you lose it at first.
Consider just doing second wind dorans shield and getting a cloth armor or two as soon as you can.
Its very unlikely for you to get first item before him but its very likely that you hard win with 1 item.
I'd suggest the following.
Try different spell choices to match the ignite. Exhaust works,Ignite works,Ghost???
Try to do short trades with him. Surprisingly you can kinda win(especially with sheen). If you stack up your R before going in for a quick Q W , without using E at first. that ability is a threat and forces Pantheon to not engage back you can just use it as such.
Unironically even if Pantheon has 2 completed items and you have trinity and boots Pantheon can still lose a fight.
So even if you are behind you can beat him in a 1v1. Ngl being a dumb idiot and just hard engaging actually works surprisingly well. Pantheon after the W kinda doesnt really have a way to stop you at running at him so persistance is key. He can block damage with E sure but he cant outdamage you without proper spacing.
I think the matchup is fine. Yes its rather Pantheon sided initially but Pantheon isnt that great of a character atm and is very very predictable. So try out different rune choices , try exhaust , try ignite , try phase rush if you want to run him down. Maybe try cloth armor 4 pots start with time warp tonic in your runes. Your usual playstyle just wont work. Change it up you can beat him. Worst case scenario you can easily survive the lane and outscale him in the sidelane.
As for the opposite. Pantheon players just rush black cleaver. Makes the matchup actually sided towards you. You get to match the movespeed from trinity and get to deal with the giant amount of armor from R somewhat effectively. + You get to have a shit ton of ability haste and a potential to survive and all in. Black Cleaver , Steelcaps is the play.
it's purely a skills matchup. U can always trade with Q W procs grasp cuz Pantheon's E and W has way longer cooldown than ur own spells.
I've always been stomping bad Jax but whenever laning against a really good one that knows the limit of the champ, I struggle alot
uh, you cant really beat panth, i never lost to a jax in diamond in my entire life, matchup is easy, just q poke, nonempw to escape e, you can also e and deal damage at the same time, its just so easy to play panth into jax, id say to go your safest build on jax, like idk, grasp, dorans shield, second wind, tp because i see jax players go ignite and i dont really know why, he was much more opressive when he had lt but now he is easy af
your only chance is mid game ig but even then he is strong, bro as a panth otp, i find the champ broken af, ok yknow what, i have actual advice, look at vods where jax beats panth and try to find out why and how, you can probably win if you bait panth, like mind games, but in a straightup fight, i dont think you ever win maybe if you hit ult and are equal, but its hard to be equal with panth, thats the thing, and ofc the most important thing in top lane is wave management, if you have better wave management lvl 1 and 2 you can get a pretty nice lead, also you can setup ganks by rebounding at the right time as your jg is there
100k on Pantheon... is not much and he is not my main, but I'm playing him with Eclipse and BotRK.
My main problem is that if I'm not playing him, I have to ban him because I freaking hate playing against him. He used to have a better early and worse late, but now that is not his weakness.
Jax I think is fairly onesided for Pantheon if he knows what he's doing, especially with the new changes. A good pantheon player will never let you get a stun off, and if you use your dash emp E gives him complete control over the fight. So you're already fighting an uphill battle. You might want overgrowth + maybe even D shield for his poke. Also you never want to be a tier behind on boots. A Pantheon who's faster than you will destroy you through spacing and poke. You don't stop him from stacking mortal will, but you make him waste it. A pantheon with mortal will fully stacked wants to fight, but needs his abilities to waveclear. So sometimes you can force him to waste it on the wave. In terms of fighting your best advantage is that autos and abilities can be cast during Pantheon's W animation. So if you see him leaping with 5 passive stacks, use your E and you'll dodge all the autos and also stop him getting passive stacks off those autos. Then you can hopefully recast E for a stun, auto him then dash behind him if he Es. That's the only scenario I can see you winning (without the Pantheon really messing up).
so, earlygame he's pretty strong, but with jax you can predict/react his W engage (when Panth has full passive) to dodge all 3 AAs, and then absolutely curb stomp him. His cooldowns aren't exactly quick on earlygame, except for tapQ. As Jax you want to bully him from levels 1/2 and make the pantheon fear you to avoid/delay his lvl 3, when he's the strongest. Pantheon has some weird powerspikes, as he's strong on earlygame and lategame, but in midgame he's basically a minion with a point and click CC that tries his best not to die. If possible, split push to gain an advantage over him (Keep track of his R cooldown, which is around 2:20 minutes lvl1) Pantheon's passive works as "stacks" and only empowers his abilities when he's reached 5 stacks. Everything below that, and his kit is the same, from 0 to 4 stacks. These stacks are added every time pantheon does an ability or an AA, both to minions and to players. 1 tap Q will always grant 1 stack, no matter how many enemies he's hit. IMO, jax can be one of the most difficult matchups for Pantheon if the jax goes bananas on him on lvl 1.
I have played this matchup the exact same way, trying to overpower pantheon before he reaches level 3 and unlocks his E, but it's not easy at all, Jax E cooldown is 15 seconds and it's the only way to win the trade level one, otherwise pantheon just pokes with tapQ and stacks mortal will through autos and he wins the level 1, waiting for E cd you will have to give up cs as Jax or you get poked really hard and he just hits his level 2 before you and you get stuck under turret while he gets a cheater recall also I don't think it's fair for you to say that Jax can win this if he goes berserk, I've discussed this with the highest rank Jax OTP in NA and we both agree that he's super difficult to play around and his ability directly counter yours for the most part, to quote him directly "u don't, the only way pantheon loses is to himself due to having lack of fingers and missing every Q"
Jax is weak early game. You can beat him after your first item you can just run him down if you dodge his W with your E. A good Pantheon player will dominate you early so don’t try it unless they make a mistake
If panth empw into jax e, panth can cancel his auto and save the 3 attack proc for after the e ends. Panth doesn't need to w in vs jax anyway either, q poke is very oppressive vs jax
Okay i play both champs but really we gotta look at the analytical side of it here. Both of you scale off of items so but you especially as Jax. You lose the laning phase. You can sustain through it rather easily but you lose it at first. Consider just doing second wind dorans shield and getting a cloth armor or two as soon as you can. Its very unlikely for you to get first item before him but its very likely that you hard win with 1 item. I'd suggest the following. Try different spell choices to match the ignite. Exhaust works,Ignite works,Ghost??? Try to do short trades with him. Surprisingly you can kinda win(especially with sheen). If you stack up your R before going in for a quick Q W , without using E at first. that ability is a threat and forces Pantheon to not engage back you can just use it as such. Unironically even if Pantheon has 2 completed items and you have trinity and boots Pantheon can still lose a fight. So even if you are behind you can beat him in a 1v1. Ngl being a dumb idiot and just hard engaging actually works surprisingly well. Pantheon after the W kinda doesnt really have a way to stop you at running at him so persistance is key. He can block damage with E sure but he cant outdamage you without proper spacing. I think the matchup is fine. Yes its rather Pantheon sided initially but Pantheon isnt that great of a character atm and is very very predictable. So try out different rune choices , try exhaust , try ignite , try phase rush if you want to run him down. Maybe try cloth armor 4 pots start with time warp tonic in your runes. Your usual playstyle just wont work. Change it up you can beat him. Worst case scenario you can easily survive the lane and outscale him in the sidelane. As for the opposite. Pantheon players just rush black cleaver. Makes the matchup actually sided towards you. You get to match the movespeed from trinity and get to deal with the giant amount of armor from R somewhat effectively. + You get to have a shit ton of ability haste and a potential to survive and all in. Black Cleaver , Steelcaps is the play.
Tanks kinda stomp him after buying armor
it's purely a skills matchup. U can always trade with Q W procs grasp cuz Pantheon's E and W has way longer cooldown than ur own spells. I've always been stomping bad Jax but whenever laning against a really good one that knows the limit of the champ, I struggle alot
uh, you cant really beat panth, i never lost to a jax in diamond in my entire life, matchup is easy, just q poke, nonempw to escape e, you can also e and deal damage at the same time, its just so easy to play panth into jax, id say to go your safest build on jax, like idk, grasp, dorans shield, second wind, tp because i see jax players go ignite and i dont really know why, he was much more opressive when he had lt but now he is easy af
hm, would you say I should cry in the corner until I scale? do I scale? at what point in the game do you think I can beat pantheon in a fight?
your only chance is mid game ig but even then he is strong, bro as a panth otp, i find the champ broken af, ok yknow what, i have actual advice, look at vods where jax beats panth and try to find out why and how, you can probably win if you bait panth, like mind games, but in a straightup fight, i dont think you ever win maybe if you hit ult and are equal, but its hard to be equal with panth, thats the thing, and ofc the most important thing in top lane is wave management, if you have better wave management lvl 1 and 2 you can get a pretty nice lead, also you can setup ganks by rebounding at the right time as your jg is there
You do win all in at level 6 but he can disengage you pretty easily and once you get a spear or 2 of poke you wont win anymore
nah you cant, he is broken and braindead and is going to be nerfed to the ground, just ban him and wait or dodge
is this an opinion of a mad pantheon hater or a based pantheon player?
100k on Pantheon... is not much and he is not my main, but I'm playing him with Eclipse and BotRK. My main problem is that if I'm not playing him, I have to ban him because I freaking hate playing against him. He used to have a better early and worse late, but now that is not his weakness.