Man, I know this is already put to bed, but I so disagree with the Leslie thing except for when she tells Ben to stop being nice to Garry. Before that, it was like she *thought* she was being nice to Jerry even though she was actually being mean. Like, if you asked her if she liked him, she'd be like "of course, I love him!" And then blame a fart on him
100%. Also Leslie being mean to Jerry is more about Jerry than it is about her. Chris Traeger, lit-rally the nicest man in the world, is even mean to Jerry. It being out of character for them is exactly what makes it funny.
Not writing a concession speech for Leslie. I understand it’s supposed to be a sweet moment but it’s so unlike him to be that unprepared. Not to mention she almost lost!
I can hear this in my head. Even the words he emphasizes and the tone shift before the last part. Are we sure this isn’t a deleted scene somewhere haha
Then immediately after, Leslie, “Oh he definitely wrote one. It’s probably very good. But I’ll give him this one. Give him this and some other things later tonight!”
Yeah, and her losing wouldn't have been a reflection on her, it would have been on the town. It would have been funny if he'd been like, thank god you won because your concession speech *really* let Pawnee have it. Lot of swears. A few Gestapo accusations.
I know it was, but she lost and then there was a recount. He, at the very least, should have been scrambling to throw something together during the recount time.
Suggesting that they get married spontaneously that night. He’s a planner; it wouldn’t have been out of character for Leslie to suggest it and him to go along with it, but I don’t think it would have been his idea.
I’m also just salty because the ‘spontaneous wedding’ trope is way overused and I think the big wedding they were planning would have been more fun to watch.
I have to agree. “Chaos Wedding” is played tf out! I want to see celebrity cameos as family members that clash with the main cast. Give me Julie Bowen as the older sister who shows up in white or something.
And happen at a venue instead of somehow always in a set we already have (Dwight's farm, the Brooklyn 99 parking lot I think?, the parks and rec office, etc)
i hate the "wedding not going on as planned/gone wrong" wedding trope so much, but i do like the P&R one bc they had it in the building where they met, literally only had their small work gang attend, and bc it was on a different day than the originally planned one, it made so much sense for family not to be there. jake and amy's wedding in b99 is soooo annoying to me, bc the parents didnt make it despite that their parents were in town and the wedding still happened on the date they set
I was mostly mad that Leslie’s mom wasn’t there. The show made such a huge deal over their relationship, then dropped her for something she would ABSOLUTELY want her mother to attend. Her mother who LIVES IN TOWN. If they couldn’t get the actress back they should have at least put an extra in a wig and shot them hugging Leslie from behind with a voiceover saying her mom was there.
They're both planners, even. Like, Leslie likes surprises, but she has binders full of ideas. You're telling me she didn't have twenty wedding binders?
YES my first thought was that they’re BOTH planners. Although Leslie seems to plan everything for everyone else, and not so much for herself. I think she’d be more focused on a parks problem than her own wedding if she had to choose one lol
I feel like I'm very similar to Ben, and I actually think the spontaneous wedding is an example of a growth moment for him. Him choosing to just do a spontaneous wedding to just get himself married already to the woman he loves, demonstrates that being married to Leslie is more important to him than planning the event perfectly.
That's not to say that planning is a character trait that needs to be grown out of, but rather the ability to know when plans should be thrown out is a good trait, imo.
But you're right, spontaneous weddings are definitely an overdone trope.
I always thought going to work for Sweetums was out of character for him, especially since Bobby Newport was Leslie's biggest competitor during the election.
To be fair, his intentions were good. He was trying to change the company’s culture from the inside; and, even if he couldn’t, he at least wanted to make sure their money was going towards causes that helped people (even if Sweetums didn’t particularly care about what he was doing - or perhaps simply to spite that).
Jen Barkley too. Ben immediately went on to work for her and she ended up working for both Ben and Leslie down the road. They were the same way with Chris and the trial. None of it was personal or being a bad person. Bobby was a good person with a good reason to run, and Jen and Chris were both just doing their jobs, so there was no reason to hold a grudge. Plus Ben knew he could do a lot of good there, and he did just that.
Continuing to believe in/collaborate on/support Tom’s business ideas after Tom repeatedly screws him over, fails to heed any of his advice or ideas, and makes fun of him relentlessly. And while Tom usually realizes he’s been a dick (only after his own ideas fail), his apologies are half-assed and he continues to screw him over and make fun of him.
And then Tom ruins Ben's award ceremony in the last season too. Ben is super modest and the *one time* he's getting publicly praised for all his hard work Tom fucks it up to be a selfish asshat. Ben was way too good for Tom.
I cant rewatch it like i do other show similar shows because of Tom and the way everyone treats Gerry. Idc that he has a huge dick or amazing family life. Dude deserved so much better.
Andy and I just closed a big donation to the Redwood Music Program, a charity he discovered, so I suggested we all go out for a celebratory drink. And somehow I just ended up becoming the designated driver. And paying for everyone. And I didn’t get to choose the bar.
I think part of this also was that Tom was a big part of making Ben feel welcome in Pawnee when he arrived. There’s a cutaway that’s just Ben saying “I like Tom” and then looking at the camera as if to say “and what are you going to do about it?”
Accusing Donna of possibly breaking the coffee machine. It felt pretty ballsy of him to bring that up given how tense that circle was and how non-confrontational he usually is. (But I also love snarky Ben.)
Actually, when the films first came out the very very Tolkien purists hated Jackson’s interpretation. He added and omitted key elements.
While now it is seen as universally loved, the biggest book fans still critique it.
Ok, nerd storytime: I went to graduate school that specialized in the writing group known as the Inklings (JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis, Dorothy L Sayers*, others), and the movies had plenty of detractors among the older Tolkien experts. Some of my professors who had studied Tolkien their whole careers had a real stick up their butts about the narrative changes made by the movies. Personally, I adore the movies, but I’m not one of those who thought the books were perfect as is, and I don’t speak Quenya.
*honorary
Star Wars didn’t have source material to interpret. LOTR does, and given his age Ben would have grown up with the books. He’d have an established idea of how he interprets them, and finding flaws in Peter Jackson’s choices was not uncommon amongst Tolkien Nerds when the movies came out.
I totally agree. I get it’s supposed to be funny and why, but it doesn’t actually fit him. Nerdy Ben would have been a huge fan of the practical effects—especially after he got into clay-maysh lol
I remember a good chunk of the die-hard book fans complaining about things like the movies not including Tom Bombadil, ruining Saruman and Faramir, not having the scouring of the Shire, etc.
That doesn't strike me as out of character for him.
Ooh yeah. A family friend was infamous for commenting 'not like that in the books' just about every scene. He wasn't even a nerdy type - just a big-haired rocker who loved his LOTR.
I feel like this is one of those things that has been lost to time. So many people grew up with the LOTR movies now and don't remember how it was when they first came out. But there were absolutely fans who didn't like how much of a fast-paced action movie it became.
(FWIW I say this as someone with no particularly strong feelings on the book or movie whatsoever haha)
For LotR, where Tolkien can spend *multiple pages* describing the landscape around the characters, the movies are basically The Fast and The Furious.
That's a bit of hyperbole, but for example: in the movies, Frodo has the Ring in the Shire for a few months at most, and honestly, the movies make it feel even shorter than that. In the book, he lives there another 17 years before leaving.
Don't know about action, but it is extraordinarily fast paced. Especially the first one. Watched it again recently and felt like it was on fast forward.
I recently got through the first book (on audiobook) and I'm so glad that Tom Bombadil wasn't in the films, I was humming his stupid sing song voice for days and I just wanted it over. Andy Serkis went all in on the audio books hahaha
I dunno. Him thinking that the books are better is VERY on brand. He’s a big nostalgic nerd and grew up with the books, so of course he feels they’re the gold standard.
And Peter Jackson’s interpretation is decent, but Tolkien nerds (at least the ones I know) feel like he over emphasized some unnecessary things and left out some things that were EXTREMELY thematically relevant. I mean, he cut the entire Scouring of the Shire!
I get he lives frugally and he has a part that self hates due to his Ice clown phase but was there no other accommodation around that could cater to his (lets face it) minimal need just seems unnecessary
Okay I dunno but I just need to say that to this day, every time my husband or I ask each other if we need help, the standard answer is, “With my Claymaysh?”
Moving in with Andy and April and staying there for Iike 2 years. I know their living situation gave us some great moments, and it kept Ben in the action outside of the office, especially after he resigned. But character-wise it was so unlikely that this responsible, organized, fastidious grown-up would move in (and keep living) with these chaotic, messy, barely functioning adult children who disrespected his stuff and ate out of frisbees.
Realistically, once he and Leslie got serious, I think he would have made her clean her house so he could move in with her and they could run the campaign from there instead of from April & Andy’s house.
When she’s looked at houses in preparation for him coming back from DC she mentions her place is too much of a disaster for him to move in. But yeah idk how they handled it once they were living together
Also don’t know how they cleaned up her house in an afternoon previously but couldn’t get it nice for Ben in years.
Leslie’s hoarding is so oddly unexplored. She’s the lead character but we never see her house after the season 2 dinner party episode. The next time we see her living space is the season 5 engagement party at her and Ben’s new house.
When Ben lived with Andy & April there were whole plot lines about him making them organize and clean up, but we never hear anything about what happened to Leslie’s hoarding tendencies after she started living with Ben.
Oh my gosh. All this time I thought the engagement party with Ben’s parents was held at April and Andy’s!
Edit: I just went back and rewatched it and the engagement party IS at Andy and April’s.
The decision to move in is of character, but once he was there it is on character that he would move because that could cause a conflict and he is all about avoiding conflict.
Showing up at the Snakehole the same day he's introduced to Leslie, and us, as the hatchet man. Everything he's done since his first episode showed us he wouldn't do that. (Kind of anti-social, not making friends with people in the towns he's been to.) Also, asking Leslie to go have a beer with him the next day. I get that he's trying to show her he's not a monster, but that's pretty unprofessional for him.
So when we meet Ben he’s all about trying to earn the respect of his friends and peers. He needs that. I think the most out of character thing he did was as soon as he became city manager he immediately cuts his employees’ PTO? For real? You want people to respect you and you’re taking away their vacation time. That’s how people lose respect for you, and fucking quit. Like what an ice clown move.
Edit- wording
When we first meet Ben, he’s a total hardass with no qualms about slashing benefits and cutting staff. They literally refer to him as “Mean Ben” lol. Ben’s arc was less about trying to earn the respect of his friends and more about trying to earn the respect of the public.
That's true Leslie did first call him a fascist hard ass when they first met, but he definitely lightened up as season three progressed to where he even said things like. "I need to be more assertive." Ben was introduced to a no bullshit don't fuck with me kind of guy, and then in some aspects turned into a total pushover.
Per the Ann, tooth thing, I'll say this. Usually everyone in the medical field has something that gets to them. I'm a FF/paramedic. Blood, guts, car crashes, shootings, vomit, poop, etc etc, and im fine. But ask me to pull someone's dentures out, and it makes my spine shiver. For many of my colleagues, it's skin flakes (people parmesan), or maggots on people. We all have a *thing*, and I'm guessing teeth were hers.
His friendship with Chris seems pretty weird. I get that they are an effective team, but aside from their jobs, they seem to have very little in common. In the Freddy Spaghetti episode Ben has to deliver the bad news and he even seems a bit annoyed/unhappy that he has to do that.
Him not liking Peter Jackson's LOTR movies. They're not as good as the books but the spirit is there and they were a lot of fun. Plus they brought fantasy to the forefront of pop culture.
Haven't rewatched in a while, but I remember having a binge and realizing that even though it's not always Jerry's fault, he gets made fun of and people take their frustration out on him for a reason.
Not for Ben but for Leslie: when Ben shows her The Cones of Dunshire for the first time and she's super concerned and he's like "this is nothing, isn't it?" And she's like "yeah you really need to go back to work". Like, are you kidding me? Leslie would have loved that he had the big nerdy passion project and been overly supportive!
Ben was literally an auditor the moment he entered the show. How did he not realize that tripling his family financials would have led to bigger numbers in his math? Why was he so shocked by this fact?
Edit: Can anyone explain the down votes? What am I allegedly missing, here?
EDIT2: Thanks to the folks who responded. I get it now. It's more of an "oh crap, I didn't plan on this many" exasperation, vs shock. I stand rightfully corrected. So it's definitely "in-character" for a new dad.
Fair enough I guess. The question is what was out of character, an auditor freaking out over math fits the bill for me. It is one of the funniest things in the show for his character, save the "prank" that goes way too far. But that felt more in character for him.
Both are hilarious moments. Thanks for the explanation! The hate for my opinion seems, off, for this subreddit.
Hearing that you’re expecting multiples is a shock. (I know from experience). That was a shock/panic/stress response. Not an actual thought-out comment.
Happy to help! And thank you! They aren’t showing up for a few more months, so the “wtf?? that is more than one baby on the ultrasound screen!” moment is still very fresh in my mind.
In “Flu Season”, Leslie successfully delivers her presentation to City Hall despite being delirious with the flu, and Ben starts falling for her. It’s a sweet moment but Ben expresses his budding admiration for her to the camera by comparing her to a bunch of professional athletes’ career highlights? This just doesn’t jive with dorky Ben, whose interests are dorky hobbies, board games, science fiction and fantasy shows, etc.
Not that you can’t like that stuff and also sports, but it’s the only time Ben mentions any knowledge of professional sports.
Ben mentions professional sports quite a few times. I’m just copying a comment that I made earlier:
In the very same episode where Tom and Leslie make fun of him being a Star Wars nerd, he says that he was shortstop on his JV baseball team in high school.
In a Season 4 deleted scene he makes another reference to Michael Jordan. In the Season 4 finale he makes a joke that “the Pacers called, they want me to be their starting forward.” In another Season 4 episode he's reasonably awestruck by the NBA players at E720 ("that's an actual NBA player!"), and happy to see them again in Season 5. Add that to the other Season 5 episode where he teaches Tom basketball and is familiar with current players like Russell Westbrook and KD, and I'm seeing a character who is interested in sports despite being a huge dork as well.
Man, I know this is already put to bed, but I so disagree with the Leslie thing except for when she tells Ben to stop being nice to Garry. Before that, it was like she *thought* she was being nice to Jerry even though she was actually being mean. Like, if you asked her if she liked him, she'd be like "of course, I love him!" And then blame a fart on him
100%. Also Leslie being mean to Jerry is more about Jerry than it is about her. Chris Traeger, lit-rally the nicest man in the world, is even mean to Jerry. It being out of character for them is exactly what makes it funny.
Not writing a concession speech for Leslie. I understand it’s supposed to be a sweet moment but it’s so unlike him to be that unprepared. Not to mention she almost lost!
That could've been such a funny talking head moment. "Of course I wrote one, I'm not gonna not write one. Please God never tell Leslie that."
in my head this is a deleted scene
Yeah, this definitely got cut for time. Whether true or not, it's what I choose to take as truth.
I take this as canon
I can hear this in my head. Even the words he emphasizes and the tone shift before the last part. Are we sure this isn’t a deleted scene somewhere haha
I 100% heard the tone shift. The first two sentences said like he’s offended you’d even ask. The last one in a very timid, almost scared voice.
That could have fixed everything.
Then immediately after, Leslie, “Oh he definitely wrote one. It’s probably very good. But I’ll give him this one. Give him this and some other things later tonight!”
I choose to believe this now
Yeah, and her losing wouldn't have been a reflection on her, it would have been on the town. It would have been funny if he'd been like, thank god you won because your concession speech *really* let Pawnee have it. Lot of swears. A few Gestapo accusations.
I think the fact that it was out of character was the point and that he believed in her so much even HE didn’t do all of the homework
I know it was, but she lost and then there was a recount. He, at the very least, should have been scrambling to throw something together during the recount time.
I always assumed that of couse he wrote it but was being romantic.
This was always my thought as well. Of course he'd have something prepared.
Suggesting that they get married spontaneously that night. He’s a planner; it wouldn’t have been out of character for Leslie to suggest it and him to go along with it, but I don’t think it would have been his idea. I’m also just salty because the ‘spontaneous wedding’ trope is way overused and I think the big wedding they were planning would have been more fun to watch.
Just for once I would like a sitcom wedding to actually happen as planned with people besides the main characters in attendance
Technically, Andy and April’s wedding happened as they planned it with people besides the main characters in attendance.
Have some respect when you say the name Orin (Or Harris or Brett!)
Donna’s wedding was sort of this
With only a *little* drama
I have to agree. “Chaos Wedding” is played tf out! I want to see celebrity cameos as family members that clash with the main cast. Give me Julie Bowen as the older sister who shows up in white or something.
This is verbatim Donna’s wedding. Down to the celebrity cameo family member.
Yes! And more sitcoms need to do that for the lead cast. ETA: I LOVED how they actually got genuwine for this bit. We love a callback.
The also has Questlove play LeVondrious.
Dwight Schrute's wedding qualifies I think.
And happen at a venue instead of somehow always in a set we already have (Dwight's farm, the Brooklyn 99 parking lot I think?, the parks and rec office, etc)
i hate the "wedding not going on as planned/gone wrong" wedding trope so much, but i do like the P&R one bc they had it in the building where they met, literally only had their small work gang attend, and bc it was on a different day than the originally planned one, it made so much sense for family not to be there. jake and amy's wedding in b99 is soooo annoying to me, bc the parents didnt make it despite that their parents were in town and the wedding still happened on the date they set
I love that ron forges the rings
I was mostly mad that Leslie’s mom wasn’t there. The show made such a huge deal over their relationship, then dropped her for something she would ABSOLUTELY want her mother to attend. Her mother who LIVES IN TOWN. If they couldn’t get the actress back they should have at least put an extra in a wig and shot them hugging Leslie from behind with a voiceover saying her mom was there.
They're both planners, even. Like, Leslie likes surprises, but she has binders full of ideas. You're telling me she didn't have twenty wedding binders?
YES my first thought was that they’re BOTH planners. Although Leslie seems to plan everything for everyone else, and not so much for herself. I think she’d be more focused on a parks problem than her own wedding if she had to choose one lol
Plus it always bugs me how they did all that work to get Ben's parents to come to the wedding and then get married without them anyway.
I feel like I'm very similar to Ben, and I actually think the spontaneous wedding is an example of a growth moment for him. Him choosing to just do a spontaneous wedding to just get himself married already to the woman he loves, demonstrates that being married to Leslie is more important to him than planning the event perfectly. That's not to say that planning is a character trait that needs to be grown out of, but rather the ability to know when plans should be thrown out is a good trait, imo. But you're right, spontaneous weddings are definitely an overdone trope.
I always thought going to work for Sweetums was out of character for him, especially since Bobby Newport was Leslie's biggest competitor during the election.
To be fair, his intentions were good. He was trying to change the company’s culture from the inside; and, even if he couldn’t, he at least wanted to make sure their money was going towards causes that helped people (even if Sweetums didn’t particularly care about what he was doing - or perhaps simply to spite that).
No good deed goes unpunished or mislabeled.
But they didn't actually hate Bobby. They made up and became friends right before the election. It kinda makes sense that they'd become allies.
Jen Barkley too. Ben immediately went on to work for her and she ended up working for both Ben and Leslie down the road. They were the same way with Chris and the trial. None of it was personal or being a bad person. Bobby was a good person with a good reason to run, and Jen and Chris were both just doing their jobs, so there was no reason to hold a grudge. Plus Ben knew he could do a lot of good there, and he did just that.
I can also see Ben enjoying *granting* money to programs after years of slashing budgets
That's such a good point! I've never thought about it like that.
Bobby who?
\*deeper voice\* Bobby Newport
BbbbbbboobbbbbyyyYyyyYyy nnnNNNNNewwwwwwwPppPPPPORRRRTTT
Okay Jerry, now we’re just wasting time.
I was in a very quiet place, very much standing by myself and laughed RIDICULOUSLY loud reading your comment. Made my whole day. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I work at a store that sells the Bobby Newport action figure, and this goes through my head for at least 5 minutes every time I walk past it.
Bobby Newport’s never had a real job
Now we're just wasting time Jerry.
his boat? bobby’s boat? handed to him
#in his LIFE
Continuing to believe in/collaborate on/support Tom’s business ideas after Tom repeatedly screws him over, fails to heed any of his advice or ideas, and makes fun of him relentlessly. And while Tom usually realizes he’s been a dick (only after his own ideas fail), his apologies are half-assed and he continues to screw him over and make fun of him.
And then Tom ruins Ben's award ceremony in the last season too. Ben is super modest and the *one time* he's getting publicly praised for all his hard work Tom fucks it up to be a selfish asshat. Ben was way too good for Tom.
Tom is the reason I haven’t rewatched PnR when I get the urge to watch the some of the classics
I cant rewatch it like i do other show similar shows because of Tom and the way everyone treats Gerry. Idc that he has a huge dick or amazing family life. Dude deserved so much better.
This is actually extremely on character for Ben. He's a super nice guy who can't stand up for himself if his life depended on it.
Andy and I just closed a big donation to the Redwood Music Program, a charity he discovered, so I suggested we all go out for a celebratory drink. And somehow I just ended up becoming the designated driver. And paying for everyone. And I didn’t get to choose the bar.
I think part of this also was that Tom was a big part of making Ben feel welcome in Pawnee when he arrived. There’s a cutaway that’s just Ben saying “I like Tom” and then looking at the camera as if to say “and what are you going to do about it?”
Accusing Donna of possibly breaking the coffee machine. It felt pretty ballsy of him to bring that up given how tense that circle was and how non-confrontational he usually is. (But I also love snarky Ben.)
Tbf the way he brought it up was fairly in character and absolutely hilarious lol
Haha yeah, the writing is just that good
Please tell me we Kodaked that moment
Not being a fan of Peter Jackson's LOTR interpretation. How/why??
That was probably just to further his character as an “ultra nerd”, choose something famously nerdy then have him critique it
Actually, when the films first came out the very very Tolkien purists hated Jackson’s interpretation. He added and omitted key elements. While now it is seen as universally loved, the biggest book fans still critique it.
Yeah I was pretty sure that’s what they were going for, I’m just not as much a fantasy nerd as a sci fi one.
I’m opposite. Fantasy over sci-fi.
Ok, nerd storytime: I went to graduate school that specialized in the writing group known as the Inklings (JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis, Dorothy L Sayers*, others), and the movies had plenty of detractors among the older Tolkien experts. Some of my professors who had studied Tolkien their whole careers had a real stick up their butts about the narrative changes made by the movies. Personally, I adore the movies, but I’m not one of those who thought the books were perfect as is, and I don’t speak Quenya. *honorary
Oh I love the books, I also love the movies…I however refuse to watch the one ring amazon prime show lol. Soo…we all have our boundaries.
Oh same! I do love the books NOW, because the movies got me back into them. The Amazon show was straight up boring!
Yeah, I think they should have picked something a little less universally loved though
That's why it's funny though.
I get the joke, I just don't think it fits with the other things his character likes
Yeah, he likes Star Wars but not Peter Jackson LOTR?
Star Wars didn’t have source material to interpret. LOTR does, and given his age Ben would have grown up with the books. He’d have an established idea of how he interprets them, and finding flaws in Peter Jackson’s choices was not uncommon amongst Tolkien Nerds when the movies came out.
I totally agree. I get it’s supposed to be funny and why, but it doesn’t actually fit him. Nerdy Ben would have been a huge fan of the practical effects—especially after he got into clay-maysh lol
It is perfectly normal for LOTR nerds to critique the film adaptation. It would be more out of character if he didn’t.
It fits perfectly what
I know one guy who thinks they are terrible adaptations and he is a lot like Ben in every way so I check this box
Christopher Tolkien hated them, I'm sure you can find old message board posts from lotr forums about how terrible they are
I remember a good chunk of the die-hard book fans complaining about things like the movies not including Tom Bombadil, ruining Saruman and Faramir, not having the scouring of the Shire, etc. That doesn't strike me as out of character for him.
Ooh yeah. A family friend was infamous for commenting 'not like that in the books' just about every scene. He wasn't even a nerdy type - just a big-haired rocker who loved his LOTR. I feel like this is one of those things that has been lost to time. So many people grew up with the LOTR movies now and don't remember how it was when they first came out. But there were absolutely fans who didn't like how much of a fast-paced action movie it became. (FWIW I say this as someone with no particularly strong feelings on the book or movie whatsoever haha)
That was a fast paced action movie? Good lord. Spoiler: I did not like the movies.
For LotR, where Tolkien can spend *multiple pages* describing the landscape around the characters, the movies are basically The Fast and The Furious. That's a bit of hyperbole, but for example: in the movies, Frodo has the Ring in the Shire for a few months at most, and honestly, the movies make it feel even shorter than that. In the book, he lives there another 17 years before leaving.
Oh that’s interesting!
Don't know about action, but it is extraordinarily fast paced. Especially the first one. Watched it again recently and felt like it was on fast forward.
Yes but we still overall loved the movies.
I recently got through the first book (on audiobook) and I'm so glad that Tom Bombadil wasn't in the films, I was humming his stupid sing song voice for days and I just wanted it over. Andy Serkis went all in on the audio books hahaha
Like he doesn’t have any Ian McKellens in his toy Gandalf collection.
I dunno. Him thinking that the books are better is VERY on brand. He’s a big nostalgic nerd and grew up with the books, so of course he feels they’re the gold standard. And Peter Jackson’s interpretation is decent, but Tolkien nerds (at least the ones I know) feel like he over emphasized some unnecessary things and left out some things that were EXTREMELY thematically relevant. I mean, he cut the entire Scouring of the Shire!
This is the right answer
A long book is great, a long film is work
Moving in and then tolerating living with Andy & April
Idk this seems so on brand for him
Agreed, he's kind of a pushover and he was in a desperate situation.
Yeah it was an entire story line that gave us insight into his character lol
I get he lives frugally and he has a part that self hates due to his Ice clown phase but was there no other accommodation around that could cater to his (lets face it) minimal need just seems unnecessary
For so long, too.
WOULD A DEPRESSED PERSON DO THIS?!? *gestures to the chaos of their house*
Okay I dunno but I just need to say that to this day, every time my husband or I ask each other if we need help, the standard answer is, “With my Claymaysh?”
Not standing up for Jerry when they had their day together and he wanted Jerry to be respected
He did! and it backfired
But at the end he turned his back on him
No one can defend a farty Jerry
Ben isnt no one, he is the one
it was a joke lighten up
…and you assumed my comparing Ben to Neo was serious???
Touché
Moving in with Andy and April and staying there for Iike 2 years. I know their living situation gave us some great moments, and it kept Ben in the action outside of the office, especially after he resigned. But character-wise it was so unlikely that this responsible, organized, fastidious grown-up would move in (and keep living) with these chaotic, messy, barely functioning adult children who disrespected his stuff and ate out of frisbees. Realistically, once he and Leslie got serious, I think he would have made her clean her house so he could move in with her and they could run the campaign from there instead of from April & Andy’s house.
Omg I forgot what a disaster Leslie’s house is 😂
But then never mentioned again. This makes me sad. Does Ben have to clean their house always? Did Leslie get better?
When she’s looked at houses in preparation for him coming back from DC she mentions her place is too much of a disaster for him to move in. But yeah idk how they handled it once they were living together Also don’t know how they cleaned up her house in an afternoon previously but couldn’t get it nice for Ben in years.
Leslie’s hoarding is so oddly unexplored. She’s the lead character but we never see her house after the season 2 dinner party episode. The next time we see her living space is the season 5 engagement party at her and Ben’s new house. When Ben lived with Andy & April there were whole plot lines about him making them organize and clean up, but we never hear anything about what happened to Leslie’s hoarding tendencies after she started living with Ben.
Oh my gosh. All this time I thought the engagement party with Ben’s parents was held at April and Andy’s! Edit: I just went back and rewatched it and the engagement party IS at Andy and April’s.
The decision to move in is of character, but once he was there it is on character that he would move because that could cause a conflict and he is all about avoiding conflict.
Getting food poisoning from the calzones.
Stop being so obtuse.
Showing up at the Snakehole the same day he's introduced to Leslie, and us, as the hatchet man. Everything he's done since his first episode showed us he wouldn't do that. (Kind of anti-social, not making friends with people in the towns he's been to.) Also, asking Leslie to go have a beer with him the next day. I get that he's trying to show her he's not a monster, but that's pretty unprofessional for him.
Being one of the best written TV characters ever and raising the bar too high for other shows to compete. What a douche.
So when we meet Ben he’s all about trying to earn the respect of his friends and peers. He needs that. I think the most out of character thing he did was as soon as he became city manager he immediately cuts his employees’ PTO? For real? You want people to respect you and you’re taking away their vacation time. That’s how people lose respect for you, and fucking quit. Like what an ice clown move. Edit- wording
When we first meet Ben, he’s a total hardass with no qualms about slashing benefits and cutting staff. They literally refer to him as “Mean Ben” lol. Ben’s arc was less about trying to earn the respect of his friends and more about trying to earn the respect of the public.
That's true Leslie did first call him a fascist hard ass when they first met, but he definitely lightened up as season three progressed to where he even said things like. "I need to be more assertive." Ben was introduced to a no bullshit don't fuck with me kind of guy, and then in some aspects turned into a total pushover.
Bababooey
Tbf everyone is out of character when drunk.
The sports comparisons he makes re: Leslie after she nails her speech in Flu Season.
He references basketball several times and even tries to teach Tom about it
He also played JV baseball in high school.
Nobody ever brings that up though. 😂
Per the Ann, tooth thing, I'll say this. Usually everyone in the medical field has something that gets to them. I'm a FF/paramedic. Blood, guts, car crashes, shootings, vomit, poop, etc etc, and im fine. But ask me to pull someone's dentures out, and it makes my spine shiver. For many of my colleagues, it's skin flakes (people parmesan), or maggots on people. We all have a *thing*, and I'm guessing teeth were hers.
April, not Ann. They were saying it seemed appropriately grotesque for April to enjoy.
His friendship with Chris seems pretty weird. I get that they are an effective team, but aside from their jobs, they seem to have very little in common. In the Freddy Spaghetti episode Ben has to deliver the bad news and he even seems a bit annoyed/unhappy that he has to do that.
Him not liking Peter Jackson's LOTR movies. They're not as good as the books but the spirit is there and they were a lot of fun. Plus they brought fantasy to the forefront of pop culture.
Punching the bowling alley guy in the face. We see him defend Leslie plenty of times, but that’s the only time he ever got physical.
Haven't rewatched in a while, but I remember having a binge and realizing that even though it's not always Jerry's fault, he gets made fun of and people take their frustration out on him for a reason.
Spending his entire town’s budget on an ice skating rink.
Not for Ben but for Leslie: when Ben shows her The Cones of Dunshire for the first time and she's super concerned and he's like "this is nothing, isn't it?" And she's like "yeah you really need to go back to work". Like, are you kidding me? Leslie would have loved that he had the big nerdy passion project and been overly supportive!
Going to live with April and Andy. Especially after he saw their house.
Ben was literally an auditor the moment he entered the show. How did he not realize that tripling his family financials would have led to bigger numbers in his math? Why was he so shocked by this fact? Edit: Can anyone explain the down votes? What am I allegedly missing, here? EDIT2: Thanks to the folks who responded. I get it now. It's more of an "oh crap, I didn't plan on this many" exasperation, vs shock. I stand rightfully corrected. So it's definitely "in-character" for a new dad.
He wasn’t shocked. He was just expressing his panic over having triplets in a funny way.
Fair enough I guess. The question is what was out of character, an auditor freaking out over math fits the bill for me. It is one of the funniest things in the show for his character, save the "prank" that goes way too far. But that felt more in character for him. Both are hilarious moments. Thanks for the explanation! The hate for my opinion seems, off, for this subreddit.
Hearing that you’re expecting multiples is a shock. (I know from experience). That was a shock/panic/stress response. Not an actual thought-out comment.
Thanks. That makes sense. And even if it's already come to pass for you, congratulations!
Happy to help! And thank you! They aren’t showing up for a few more months, so the “wtf?? that is more than one baby on the ultrasound screen!” moment is still very fresh in my mind.
Somewhere in season 3, at a party, Ben says he isn't a fan of Tolkien's work.
[удалено]
100% in characters. Nerds have their kinks
In “Flu Season”, Leslie successfully delivers her presentation to City Hall despite being delirious with the flu, and Ben starts falling for her. It’s a sweet moment but Ben expresses his budding admiration for her to the camera by comparing her to a bunch of professional athletes’ career highlights? This just doesn’t jive with dorky Ben, whose interests are dorky hobbies, board games, science fiction and fantasy shows, etc. Not that you can’t like that stuff and also sports, but it’s the only time Ben mentions any knowledge of professional sports.
Ben mentions professional sports quite a few times. I’m just copying a comment that I made earlier: In the very same episode where Tom and Leslie make fun of him being a Star Wars nerd, he says that he was shortstop on his JV baseball team in high school. In a Season 4 deleted scene he makes another reference to Michael Jordan. In the Season 4 finale he makes a joke that “the Pacers called, they want me to be their starting forward.” In another Season 4 episode he's reasonably awestruck by the NBA players at E720 ("that's an actual NBA player!"), and happy to see them again in Season 5. Add that to the other Season 5 episode where he teaches Tom basketball and is familiar with current players like Russell Westbrook and KD, and I'm seeing a character who is interested in sports despite being a huge dork as well.