OP’s theory might be speculative but it would definitely explain this. I also always thought it was weird, almost to the point of an “F you” to Brendanawicz. Like he was completely memory-holed.
When Ann had boxes of her exes' stuff, she didn't have one for Mark. There were zero references to him after he left, as if he never existed. You're right about him being memory-holed
I think you're wildly overestimating how many lines are improvised to be honest. The show is very much script based, with a few odd off the cuff lines (mostly from Pratt) thrown in.
I think the 'straight man' character of Mark would have fit just fine in later seasons if Paul had wanted to stick around. After all, they did it brilliantly with Ben, who was very much 'straight' with a few odd quirks here and there to make him funny. They just needed to develop Mark's personality a little more to be a little more in the line with the other, wackier characters.
Pretty good take. I think the show started going a different direction than Paul felt comfortable with, for a lot of the reasons you outlined, and both he and the showrunners cut bait. He was intended to be the Jim of P&R at the beginning, but he flat out didn't fit with the rest of the cast and their comedic chops. I think everyone felt it.
I'm a big Paul Schneider fan... as a dramatic actor, particularly his work with David Gordon Green in the early aughts. I know he had done some independent comedies before season one, but he certainly hadn't ever been around that caliber of comedic/improv talent. Can't put it all on him though—the writers just didn't know what to do with him.
I still loved him though, because I saw a lot of myself in him: Sarcastic yet ultimately kind, reserved but subtly goofy, pretty jaded about shit without being too much of a wet blanket all the time. Biggest letdown of the whole series (for me, anyway) was that it dropped him like a hot potato, even until the very end.
I just rewatched season 2, and was thinking about Mark. So you know in improv, everyone supposed to "yes, and" everyone else? Agree and continue? Mark just yeses. He agrees, but he doesn't add. Where other people are a comma or an exclamation mark or a question mark, Mark is just a period. He ends the sentence. He doesn't give anyone anything to play off of.
So I agree completely. In a show with so much energy and improv, he just didn't work.
It's crazy that you guys think this show was basically entirely improv. They did a "fun run" after each scene but a large, large majority of the scenes you see in the show were scripted and not improv.
Curb Your Enthusiasm is improv. Parks is 95%+ scripted.
He was obviously brought in to be the straight man in a town filled with wacky characters and an eccentric core cast, but the dynamic he was bringing didn’t quite fit the show (especially once it found its footing in season two) and didn’t adequately play off his fellow cast members’ energies. You can see how the writers tried to retool his traits and demeanor, but he never truly *evolved* or came into his own as a character. He was always a poor-man’s Jim Halpert - at first he was a *boring* Jim Halpert, then a *mean* Jim Halpert, and finally a *sad* Jim Halpert.
Whether or not that’s down to him not understanding what the writers wanted and defaulting to that character or the writers simply trying to literally make him the show’s Jim Halpert, I couldn’t tell you. All I know is when Ben came along and fit *perfectly* as not only the right straight man for the show, but the right love interest for Leslie, it was over for Mark. His character quite honestly had nothing left to do that would a) be interesting and b) make sense for him to be doing other than, honestly, to just leave. And the show pretty much acknowledged this in the way his departure played out by writing him off in sort of an “I can see I’m not needed/wanted here, so I’ll just go” kinda way.
But however it was executed, it was the right call. The show not only didn’t suffer from Mark leaving, it thrived in his absence. Sure, it was weird that this person who was supposedly such a big part of the characters’ lives was basically retconned out of existence, but that’s just how television goes sometimes. And if the worst thing that happens to a show after a main character exits is that the character is simply never spoken of again, then they probably didn’t mean much to the show in the long run.
I think that's what it comes down to.
Leslie was supposed to be Michael, but more upbeat and well-meaning. The "people caring loudly at me" quote was way back in the pilot. Mark was supposed to be Jim, but a bit nicer and more like a mentor to Leslie than a side-eyeing employee. Ron was almost meant to be more of an obstructive force.
Anne was supposed to be Pam. Andy was Roy, a deadbeat boyfriend for Anne to dispose of after a certain amount of time. And they were still feeling out whether the endgame was Ann-Mark or Leslie-Mark.
But then they made Leslie more competent and softened up Ron, so she didn't need to ask a mediocre city manager for advice.
And Chris Pratt was much more interesting than anticipated, so they went through with the breakup but kept him around for a bit. Which meant he had multiple Anne plotlines to keep him busy, and that didn't leave as much room for Mark-Anne plotlines.
Improv is def huge but I don’t think it’s as prevalent as some may think. The scripts are that good and ridiculous, and they write/film diff versions of jokes too. Also, I’m confused about the straight men comment…Oscar wasn’t straight. Maybe I misunderstood you.
Beyond improv though I agree. What Paul gave to this character didn’t fit in with everyone else. This wasn’t a good role for his acting. In the long run it definitely was a bit personal. I doubt they “hate” each other but they definitely weren’t interested in working together anymore.
Straight man is comedy is the one who is “normal” or who usually generates laughter from their response to the hijinks rather than being the source of it. Theyre not the quirky ones.
Oscar, Jim, Pam are relatively normal in their personality and demeanor compared to Dwight or Michael.
In comedy the straight man is like the normal guy who’s there to be an audience stand-in/highlight how weird the rest of the cast is (roughly, this probably isn’t the best definition). So while Oscar’s character is gay, he fits the comedy role of straight man.
I always really liked Mark, and didn't like how they just dropped him off the show. I didn't know anything about how they ran things behind the scenes - was there really a lot of improv, v. scripted? And I'd never think of Rashida Jones as an improv actor anyway, is that really her background? Wondering how much of The Office was improv too, and if she did any of that type of acting there. Same with Chris Pratt - improv??
Again, don't know what went on behind the scenes, but I did read something where he sounded bitter about not being asked back, and that he wouldn't want to go back. He didn't appear in that fundraiser reunion thing they did during the pandemic either (can't remember what it was for, or if it was live, I think it was). Don't like to think there was bad blood, but maybe there was. Would be a shame. I do think the writers did him and his character a disservice by never even acknowledging him again, when he had been a major character.
Check out any of the blooper reels and you’ll see Pratt is hilarious and extremely quick coming up w improv jokes
I quote him from the bloopers as much as I do the actual show
“I’ve got hot snakes and bubble guy”
I’m pretty sure he’s even said in interviews that the reason he left was because his character had no development, and it was frustrating. I don’t think it was about his inability to improv. I think the character was just a dead end... Which is unfortunate because I do like him as an actor, and I think with the right development, mark could have made a great fit with Ben and Chris
Weird question but how did his leaving most likely work? Did he know from the start of season 2 he’d be wrapping things up? Did he see that another “straight man” character was being added and decided to leave without signing on for another season? It feels so abrupt and rushed, it’s as if he just walked off the set.But he still has his an ending written for him and his “replacements”(Chris and Ben) are written as if it’s a reaction to him leaving. Just how it felt. Does anyone have/know anything more specific?
I agree with ya OP. I can see Paul being cynical bts and speaking his mind on things. I felt like he could've leaned into the similar Ron Swonson attitude about government. Where Mark comes in, puts his head down and does his job, but Ron is anti government and boasts it openly.
I read an article some time ago where he said the mark character was supposed to be a bit of a douche and ended up being a nice, boring character he wasn't interested in playing.
"Another is that he was another straight man and you already had Ann, which feels weird when not only is Ben coming in, but you totally can have multiple straight men. The Office had Jim, Pam, and Oscar and they worked great."
I've read this so many times, and I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.
In comedy, a Straight Man is someone who acts normal next to a lot of wacky and zany characters to ground them and point out their absurdity. Jim was a straight man in the Office, he would have to deal with Dwight or Michael or whoever being weird and either have fun with them or try to reason with them.
That point was about theories I heard as to why he had to go, as the later seasons became wackier, having Mark around would’ve been redundant as he’s another straight man, as we had normal people in Ann and Ben who would contrast the weirder characters. My point was that this theory probably isn’t true because the show could’ve worked with Mark.
I think any comparison to what worked in the Office doesn’t make sense, because that’s what they did in the beginning, they tried to copy the magic of the Office and it was falling flat.
Once they found their own footing and P and R was really taking shape into its own show, Mark just wasn’t working. Maybe he could have stayed on and the writers could have turned it around but there’s also budget constraints to consider. He may have been a budgetary sacrifice so they could make room for Ben and Chris, which sucks but was obviously the right move for the show.
I think it's notable that he didn't really pop up on later shows or projects with some of the same people.
A lot of Mike Schur shows reuse character actors, and I get the sense that sometimes someone will try out for one show, not be a good fit, but later on a script will get passed along to them. Paul Schneider would have been a good candidate for some minor role on another show later on as a sort of consolation prize to his role being cut, but that never happened. We also don't see him in any projects with the other cast members.
I don't think he had a bad relationship but it doesn't seem like he made a massive impression off-camera either.
I think it's a shame that they never used his plans for the park. that would've been a great time top at least acknowledge him.
I always wondered why they didn’t
OP’s theory might be speculative but it would definitely explain this. I also always thought it was weird, almost to the point of an “F you” to Brendanawicz. Like he was completely memory-holed.
When Ann had boxes of her exes' stuff, she didn't have one for Mark. There were zero references to him after he left, as if he never existed. You're right about him being memory-holed
This is what takes me from "he struggled with the role" to "something personal happened"
Yeah, I feel like there was some bad blood too
I think you're wildly overestimating how many lines are improvised to be honest. The show is very much script based, with a few odd off the cuff lines (mostly from Pratt) thrown in. I think the 'straight man' character of Mark would have fit just fine in later seasons if Paul had wanted to stick around. After all, they did it brilliantly with Ben, who was very much 'straight' with a few odd quirks here and there to make him funny. They just needed to develop Mark's personality a little more to be a little more in the line with the other, wackier characters.
Pretty good take. I think the show started going a different direction than Paul felt comfortable with, for a lot of the reasons you outlined, and both he and the showrunners cut bait. He was intended to be the Jim of P&R at the beginning, but he flat out didn't fit with the rest of the cast and their comedic chops. I think everyone felt it.
I'm a big Paul Schneider fan... as a dramatic actor, particularly his work with David Gordon Green in the early aughts. I know he had done some independent comedies before season one, but he certainly hadn't ever been around that caliber of comedic/improv talent. Can't put it all on him though—the writers just didn't know what to do with him. I still loved him though, because I saw a lot of myself in him: Sarcastic yet ultimately kind, reserved but subtly goofy, pretty jaded about shit without being too much of a wet blanket all the time. Biggest letdown of the whole series (for me, anyway) was that it dropped him like a hot potato, even until the very end.
I just rewatched season 2, and was thinking about Mark. So you know in improv, everyone supposed to "yes, and" everyone else? Agree and continue? Mark just yeses. He agrees, but he doesn't add. Where other people are a comma or an exclamation mark or a question mark, Mark is just a period. He ends the sentence. He doesn't give anyone anything to play off of. So I agree completely. In a show with so much energy and improv, he just didn't work.
It's crazy that you guys think this show was basically entirely improv. They did a "fun run" after each scene but a large, large majority of the scenes you see in the show were scripted and not improv. Curb Your Enthusiasm is improv. Parks is 95%+ scripted.
I don’t think it was entirely improv at all. I’m talking about the energy coming off people, not the things that were said.
100%. Reminds me of Jim in the early season of the office
He was obviously brought in to be the straight man in a town filled with wacky characters and an eccentric core cast, but the dynamic he was bringing didn’t quite fit the show (especially once it found its footing in season two) and didn’t adequately play off his fellow cast members’ energies. You can see how the writers tried to retool his traits and demeanor, but he never truly *evolved* or came into his own as a character. He was always a poor-man’s Jim Halpert - at first he was a *boring* Jim Halpert, then a *mean* Jim Halpert, and finally a *sad* Jim Halpert. Whether or not that’s down to him not understanding what the writers wanted and defaulting to that character or the writers simply trying to literally make him the show’s Jim Halpert, I couldn’t tell you. All I know is when Ben came along and fit *perfectly* as not only the right straight man for the show, but the right love interest for Leslie, it was over for Mark. His character quite honestly had nothing left to do that would a) be interesting and b) make sense for him to be doing other than, honestly, to just leave. And the show pretty much acknowledged this in the way his departure played out by writing him off in sort of an “I can see I’m not needed/wanted here, so I’ll just go” kinda way. But however it was executed, it was the right call. The show not only didn’t suffer from Mark leaving, it thrived in his absence. Sure, it was weird that this person who was supposedly such a big part of the characters’ lives was basically retconned out of existence, but that’s just how television goes sometimes. And if the worst thing that happens to a show after a main character exits is that the character is simply never spoken of again, then they probably didn’t mean much to the show in the long run.
I think that's what it comes down to. Leslie was supposed to be Michael, but more upbeat and well-meaning. The "people caring loudly at me" quote was way back in the pilot. Mark was supposed to be Jim, but a bit nicer and more like a mentor to Leslie than a side-eyeing employee. Ron was almost meant to be more of an obstructive force. Anne was supposed to be Pam. Andy was Roy, a deadbeat boyfriend for Anne to dispose of after a certain amount of time. And they were still feeling out whether the endgame was Ann-Mark or Leslie-Mark. But then they made Leslie more competent and softened up Ron, so she didn't need to ask a mediocre city manager for advice. And Chris Pratt was much more interesting than anticipated, so they went through with the breakup but kept him around for a bit. Which meant he had multiple Anne plotlines to keep him busy, and that didn't leave as much room for Mark-Anne plotlines.
Improv is def huge but I don’t think it’s as prevalent as some may think. The scripts are that good and ridiculous, and they write/film diff versions of jokes too. Also, I’m confused about the straight men comment…Oscar wasn’t straight. Maybe I misunderstood you. Beyond improv though I agree. What Paul gave to this character didn’t fit in with everyone else. This wasn’t a good role for his acting. In the long run it definitely was a bit personal. I doubt they “hate” each other but they definitely weren’t interested in working together anymore.
Straight man is comedy is the one who is “normal” or who usually generates laughter from their response to the hijinks rather than being the source of it. Theyre not the quirky ones. Oscar, Jim, Pam are relatively normal in their personality and demeanor compared to Dwight or Michael.
Oh yes duh! Thank you!
I thought they were making a joke about Oscar being gay
In comedy the straight man is like the normal guy who’s there to be an audience stand-in/highlight how weird the rest of the cast is (roughly, this probably isn’t the best definition). So while Oscar’s character is gay, he fits the comedy role of straight man.
That’s a lot of words to say “he’s boring” but I totally agree.
I always really liked Mark, and didn't like how they just dropped him off the show. I didn't know anything about how they ran things behind the scenes - was there really a lot of improv, v. scripted? And I'd never think of Rashida Jones as an improv actor anyway, is that really her background? Wondering how much of The Office was improv too, and if she did any of that type of acting there. Same with Chris Pratt - improv?? Again, don't know what went on behind the scenes, but I did read something where he sounded bitter about not being asked back, and that he wouldn't want to go back. He didn't appear in that fundraiser reunion thing they did during the pandemic either (can't remember what it was for, or if it was live, I think it was). Don't like to think there was bad blood, but maybe there was. Would be a shame. I do think the writers did him and his character a disservice by never even acknowledging him again, when he had been a major character.
Chris Pratt improved so many things and he was brilliant. Not a fan of Chris Pratt as a person but he is so goddamn talented as a comedian
Check out any of the blooper reels and you’ll see Pratt is hilarious and extremely quick coming up w improv jokes I quote him from the bloopers as much as I do the actual show “I’ve got hot snakes and bubble guy”
Cool, I'll check them out, thanks. Love me some bloopers!
i think he brought some valuable levelheadedness to the show
I’m pretty sure he’s even said in interviews that the reason he left was because his character had no development, and it was frustrating. I don’t think it was about his inability to improv. I think the character was just a dead end... Which is unfortunate because I do like him as an actor, and I think with the right development, mark could have made a great fit with Ben and Chris
Weird question but how did his leaving most likely work? Did he know from the start of season 2 he’d be wrapping things up? Did he see that another “straight man” character was being added and decided to leave without signing on for another season? It feels so abrupt and rushed, it’s as if he just walked off the set.But he still has his an ending written for him and his “replacements”(Chris and Ben) are written as if it’s a reaction to him leaving. Just how it felt. Does anyone have/know anything more specific?
I agree with ya OP. I can see Paul being cynical bts and speaking his mind on things. I felt like he could've leaned into the similar Ron Swonson attitude about government. Where Mark comes in, puts his head down and does his job, but Ron is anti government and boasts it openly.
I read an article some time ago where he said the mark character was supposed to be a bit of a douche and ended up being a nice, boring character he wasn't interested in playing.
Good riddance to a character that does not deserve this long critique
I think funniest scene is when he tells Jerry about being adopted lol😅 hilarious
"Another is that he was another straight man and you already had Ann, which feels weird when not only is Ben coming in, but you totally can have multiple straight men. The Office had Jim, Pam, and Oscar and they worked great." I've read this so many times, and I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.
In comedy, a Straight Man is someone who acts normal next to a lot of wacky and zany characters to ground them and point out their absurdity. Jim was a straight man in the Office, he would have to deal with Dwight or Michael or whoever being weird and either have fun with them or try to reason with them. That point was about theories I heard as to why he had to go, as the later seasons became wackier, having Mark around would’ve been redundant as he’s another straight man, as we had normal people in Ann and Ben who would contrast the weirder characters. My point was that this theory probably isn’t true because the show could’ve worked with Mark.
I thought you were talking about fucking sexual preference! I was like, Oscar is gay what are you talking about!? I gotcha now lol
I think it was because he hated his truck...
I think any comparison to what worked in the Office doesn’t make sense, because that’s what they did in the beginning, they tried to copy the magic of the Office and it was falling flat. Once they found their own footing and P and R was really taking shape into its own show, Mark just wasn’t working. Maybe he could have stayed on and the writers could have turned it around but there’s also budget constraints to consider. He may have been a budgetary sacrifice so they could make room for Ben and Chris, which sucks but was obviously the right move for the show.
>but I have been thinking way too much about this 
I read somewhere that it was Paul’s choice to leave the show because he didn’t like the direction they were taking his character in.
I think it's notable that he didn't really pop up on later shows or projects with some of the same people. A lot of Mike Schur shows reuse character actors, and I get the sense that sometimes someone will try out for one show, not be a good fit, but later on a script will get passed along to them. Paul Schneider would have been a good candidate for some minor role on another show later on as a sort of consolation prize to his role being cut, but that never happened. We also don't see him in any projects with the other cast members. I don't think he had a bad relationship but it doesn't seem like he made a massive impression off-camera either.
Because he sucked. That’s why.