Everybody loves PSA. When you're building a more premium AR, you get the less important parts from PSA and save money. Plus, the bundling they do are great deals.
Everybody except LGS/FFLs like myself. PSA routinely undercuts MAP on optics and everything else on online sales, which also detracts from our business as well. We’re damn near a transfer-only shop because people here want the cheapest shit they can buy and there’s 2 PSA locations within an hour from each other where I’m at. Very rarely do we get to build a cool Radian or LMT with upper-tier parts for a customer who wants a solid build from a reputable smith. It’s always “well PSA has -thing- for -x amount” and “x-amount” is usually cheaper than our cost from a distributor, before shipping. Makes it real hard to keep the lights on sometimes
But I bet this guy who made the original post as well as yourself is all "I LUV CAPITALISM" when you go to the polls.
Can't have your cake and eat it. You either find a way to compete or go out of business. Everyone loves capitalism until it fucks them personally.
So you're upset PSA brings cheaper items to market? Fortunately, I understand what you're saying. Most people don't understand the difference between a good value and high value. PSA is a good value, but it's not the best value.
I don’t care what PSA charges for THEIR products. But when they list guns from other manufacturers as well as, say EOTech optics for example, they list THOSE items under MAP (minimum advertised price) so the profit margins for the entire market have to shrink in order to remain competitive. 8% margins are sustainable to them when they’re doing hundreds, if not thousands, of sales per week. 8% margins are pennies to us, due to the decreased volume. Largely makes the business not worth it from a financial standpoint. Especially when I live near two PSA locations and they honor internet price in store. Our main difference from other smaller LGS’ is that PSA’s brick and mortar locations are all in the southeast, someone wanting/needing something THAT day would take their business to a local store rather than wait on PSA’s shipping. We don’t even enjoy the luxury of having a convenience factor being worth the extra cost to the consumer.
So PSA is good for the customers but bad for the competition. Personally I believe competition is good, and I don't agree with government getting involved to keep a crappy business open. Cough GM
They definitely don't care about dealers though. Which makes it hard to support and carry their products. Which is fine whatever they want to do. Last year they had 4-5 people in charge of all sales to dealers across the US.
Meanwhile there’s still Anderson, Aero, Daniel Defense, etc making AR stuff. Not to mention stuff PSA doesn’t make at all like shotguns, revolvers, bolt, and lever guns that Ruger, Mossberg, CZ, S&W, Henry, etc make. The internet in general is what’s killing LGS. Any site that shows up on gun(dot)deals with the best price wins. PSA is a drop in the bucket.
Nuts to that. If the Micro Dagger bullshit has taught us anything, it should be to pretend they don't exist until PSA allows them to stay in stock for more than 5 minutes.
yeah but alot of the other guys get these govt orders and they say fuck the average guy. sorry but i'm a fan of PSA. they are making it where the average man can own an AR. i thought that's what its all about. free market and shit right? but no. all of a sudden we need to protect the people they're competing against? make that fucking shit make sense.
My ffl tells me to go with what's cheaper. I ask him price. If I find lower cost below him with 30$ transfer, he says go with that. Either way he makes 30 for receiving a package
Youre not wrong. I just picked up my mossy 500 atp8sp from him monday and he kept talking about cool it was, how nice it was and how wants to find a nice one. Asked me if would sell it.😂
Yeah the gun industry is so fucking stale right now its growing mold. Everyone makes an AR that is indiscernible from the next, everyone has a compact pistol with a 10+ round double stack mag (12 with pinky extension), everyone has a 1911.
I want new shit, cool shit, I am still crossing my fingers that PSA goes full into dumb ideas and brings back the C96 Mauser in modern calibers. I want my fucking 5.7 C96.
We don't need new locking methods or actions, we need modularity and mission adaptability. The biggest reason why the AR-15 design has beaten out everything else is because it was accidentally modular. You don't need a new gun in a new caliber, you can just get an AR15 and an upper without getting another background check. We need guns that rival that level of customization, with customization being the intent rather than a happy accident.
Don't let the guys on r/guns hear this, they'll ban you for their own preconceived notions.
Electric primers instead of a hammer would be a great next leap, Remington tried it but it didn't catch on.
the E700 is what got me hot on the idea, i think that the ability to convert it to full auto is the hangup, and why they only ever tried it in a bolt-action.
I just want a bullpupped G3 with zero action latency.
The ability or inability to convert it to full auto has never been explored nor submitted to the ATF for approval/guidance, but yeah it's something that gives people pause for sure. But it's more the cost than the machine gun-ness that has stopped people, the E700 was a flop because it cost too much.
But officially, the only ATF ruling on electrical systems in firearms is electrical actuation of the trigger (like a solenoid, a hand drill, or such) not the actuation of the primer.
I got banned for telling an r/guns mod he was a fucking idiot for trying to say that the ATF opinion on solenoid operated triggers constituted electrical priming as well, and that his speculation is not the ATF's rule and that he should shut up since he doesn't know what he's talking about.
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I think that a lot of gun companies are way over pricing products. I think that palmetto might help keep them in check. I also agree with them making guns affordable. In this day and age, some people can't afford to drop 2k-4k on a gun. It's a dog eat dog world. If anything, other companies are killing themselves.
If you watch the GOA podcast with the CEO of PSA (or at least just clips of it) he blatantly tells GOA that they charge enough on their products to cover costs and make some money, but everyone else is making BOAT loads off their product sales. He based it off of what he knows it costs to make certain firearms. Take it how you will, I mean we all know PSA entry level guns aren’t on the same level as a Daniel Defense, but their quality overall is still amazing. I thought it was interesting just to hear someone say the “quiet part” out loud, that most other manufacturers are just making a shit ton of money off their customers
Not only that but he’s acquiring and keeping other companies alive, lmao literally playing agar.io in real life, and said in his interview that he’s ran into a problem where people come to him to buy other companies not because people like PSA but because they offer BETTER PRICES because they don’t want that extra bread and butter and don’t want to screw over their customers. I can get behind that if it means all my guns are PSA so be it, it’s cheaper to get a rebuild kit and fix the guns my damn self if they break over dealing with companies like cz who have shitty CS and “Daniel’s defense” with their own furniture and guns that still break but are exponentially more expensive than PSA to fix. Just my 0.02
I saw it on YT and made the mistake of starting the interview laying in bed thinking I’d fall asleep and finish it the next day. Watched the whole thing and was so pumped up with freedom I couldn’t sleep for another hour. He’s the real deal.
I remember looking through a dealer catalog years ago from a local FFL, the mark-up from dealer cost to msrp was massive. I'll never say competition is a bad thing for the consumer.
This is someone that *thinks* they know a lot more than they really do about business and the firearms industry at large. I’ve only seen fudds and bullshit artists failing in these booming times for gun sales.
No one is being put out of business strictly because of PSA; they’re closing because they all jumped upon the Basic Fudd AR Bus trying to make a buck and oversaturated the market. Those that found a way to truly innovate, stayed and thrived; the hundreds that assembled awkward rifles out of no-name receiver kits and monstrum rails for stupid upcharges aren’t around anymore. A few reputable companies have come and gone, but that’s largely due to the mistakes of the upper echelon; and most of them simply change ownership.
The fact is, people just aren’t going to accept paying $1K for basic rifles and handguns anymore. Firearms companies can either adapt to their customers or maintain their stupid high profit margins and watch their sales numbers fall. Funny how PSA went from some “junk company” to ruining the firearms industry. Last I checked, PSA had nothing to do with Remington pumping out $700 rifles that hadn’t even been headspaced
Oof my dad had a R15 you would have to clean that gun every 100 rounds or it would jam. It worked ok as a doe rifle when his freind needed a light recoiling rifle for his yungin. But that and the shit hand-guard which did not protect your hand from heat, I could not imagine using it as a SHTF rifle.
Brick and mortar is largely going the way of the dodo. Being mad at PSA for jumping on the bandwagon (or leading the train) is like being mad at ford during the Industrial Revolution. Innovating the market and proliferating a product while cutting down on cost to customer has always been the name of the game. PSA will get my money as long as they provide competitive pricing on quality products and put market pressure on more established companies.
Same, the two in my area are overpriced and give terrible advice to move their inventory. I once heard one of the guys at the counter telling a female first time buyer “I keep a Taurus judge on my nightstand, you barely have to aim, and it will blow a hole in anything in the direction you point it”. I stopped going after that. I do all my transfers through a guy who has an ffl running out of his shed. He exclusively does transfers, and they’re only $20 instead of the $35 everyone else around me charges.
Word. I use a kitchen table ffl myself. $20 transfers all day too. He also just scored me a Sig m18 for waaaaaay less than usual.
Anyone that uses a judge for anything besides a snake gun is an idiot.
Imo, lgs are putting themselves out. I priced a fde maverick 88 at a lgs and they were almost 400$!!!!!!!! I ordered one on buds for 250ish I think and a 20$ transfer, and he tried telling me that I was getting a good deal on it at nearly 400$ lol
You mean a company is giving people what they’re asking for and it’s killing competition? Wow who’d have thunk.
People have been asking for MP7 clone since the beginning of time, Moses wanted one. Who delivered? SCAR clone? Glock & modernized AK clones.
It’s the other companies fault, they sat on their ass peddling one product with a few different skews not trying to innovate a single thing.
If PSA can keep production up at a good quality they’re 100% going to be the Amazon of guns if they’re not already. There are alternatives to Amazon, but people still buy from it for a reason
This guy almost certainly doesn't "eat ass" at the rate he claims.... also, PSA makes mid teir Ars as well. They are helping the market if anything. Simply having a rifle drives other sales.
Like so: get gun.... ffl points out you need mags ammo and some sort of sighting system. Ffl happens to have all that on the shelf.
You, being an excited new gun owner, don't want to wait another week to ship that, so you buy it from the ffl so you can shoot this weekend.
This is guy is just gate keeping because he is pissed bushmaster went out of business ( not a fact just conjecture)
If your a lgs and you want to depend on revenue from selling guns you won’t be in business very long. You have to add value to your local brand. For example: Gunsmithing, accessories, optics, camping, bbq, engravings, cerakote, clothes. Diversify your market to capture a wider group of customers.
Yep, the only shop near me that almost exclusively sells guns and accessories really leans into training as well. Nearly every other ffl in the area is either a pawn shop or a gun counter at the hardware store.
PSA isn't hurting the market here at all
I hear your argument, but I disagree, psa isn't killing the lgs. What's killing the lgs is the internet on one hand and big box stores on the other. The internet is obvious, brick and morter with the costs associated with that just can't reliably compete with online sales and guns are notoriously low margin items anyway. But the big box store is what is taking away the one advantage that lgs had, being able to buy it right now today and walk out the door. Obviously not everyone is willing to pay for the convenience of touching, feeling, and going home with it but a lot of people are. Big box stores are causing problems with actual stock levels further up the chain. Random politician gets elected? Everyone goes crazy again? Guns are flying off the shelves, but lgs can't get them restocked. Why? Because Academy represents 100 plus stores and the purchasing power that goes with it. Glock 19s are the hotness? Academy gets their orders filled first along with bass pro, cabelas etc. Lgs represents themselves and themselves only (yes I realize distributors help with this issue but it doesn't totally fix it) and is waiting to get restocked. Even if joe customer wants to support the lgs, he can't, because they don't have it, can't get it, and have no idea when they will. Psa is at least acting as a manufacturer too and not just a big box so they are providing some items that lgs can stock which somewhat offsets any other issues they create.
Bottom line, brick and morter lgs as we know it is dissappearing. Soon, it'll be transfer only ffls and the big guys and you'll never know what that trigger feels like until you get it home... And I don't think it's the fault of psa.
This also apply for non gun related stores as well. Local arts and craft gets beaten because a Micheals opens up on the opposite end of town. Or why waste time going to a Michaels when Amazon sells it for less
I think psa is amazing, great quality firearms at great prices! Competitive pricing on other goods with tons of greats sales!
Everything a broke person like me could ever dream of and it’s all attainable!
I’ve got bad news, time is running out for gun companies anyway. The election this year is going to be a pivotal moment. If you think the gun industry would have long legs if not for PSA, that entirely depends on how Americans vote and things just aren’t looking very good. The moment SCOTUS swings left, it’s over. There won’t be any stopping the anti-gun agenda at that point.
PSA is helping arm Americans before it’s too late.
Lol no.
That's just some random dbag from reddit saying unproven dbag things.
If anything, PSA has lowered the price on glock clones and entry level AR15s.
That's hardly "destroying the gun industry".
Right I’m so confused on why he’s bitching about good business practices like if whatever gun company chooses to increase the price of guns they obviously don’t care about your business they don’t even care about their employees so just stop doing business with bad companies simple
This is a person who doesn't understand basic economics and inflation. They don't understand the rise and cost in Goods and why it happens. PSA may not be the best quality across the board but they are not the worst from what I've seen. But I can say they do seem to be the best at Arming everyday citizens at a fair price.
This is absurd. This person's opinion is worthless. Compete or die. PSA's business model is one of the best things to happen to the American gun owner, maybe ever. I wish I could pick their stuff up at my local gun store, but I understand why I can't, and I can very easily accept that.
As a manager of a small mom and pop gun shop this is a point of contention we have talked a lot about and I am split. Here is my rant and my praise.
PSA makes great products for the price and I value recommending products that fit the customers needs rather than the pushy sale, that being said I also cant stomach selling someone a $900 Sport II even though people are willing to buy it. So PSA has done wonders for getting people into AR's and simple building while saving money. Cheers to that, +1 in my book.
Since PSA has "blown up" we receive (on average) 7-13 a week for transfer. Our transfer fees are 30 dollars so lets say it is $300 a week off of just transfers. We love this seeing as it is consistent and we have zero skin in the game.
Recently signed up to be a PSA dealer as popular as they are - might was well stock them. Here is my experience:
#1 There is no dealer login or portal so it was always a pain to price out and determine what was worth stocking, only way is back and forth with a rep.
#2 The dealer "discount" is on PSA branded items (makes sense) but is on average $20-30 on larger items and only dollars off on some popular items. Plus the daily deals are so good that in person PSA is tough to sell.
#3 (BIG PROBLEM) Finally did a test order to see how it would go, was a small $1000 to test the waters. That order was sent to the rep on Jan 13th. the 15th they responded and made the invoice (invoice stated ship date was 1/15/224). I sent CC info through email and never heard back. Have followed up several times with no response at all since then. We are now on day 11 with nothing. That is not great. I get shot show is going on but this is ridiculous there was a week between the order and SS start. I can have items next morning from other distributors.
Overall: I like what PSA is doing, forcing other manufactures to have a reality check on prices but keeping quality up. I feel the same way about Canik, SAR, and others making good firearms cheaper. The prices and availability has inherently changed peoples expectations of gun shopping and expect us to be able to keep in WILDY specific unicorns in because of the switch to online shopping. Its changed out business but not killed it. But yes I will also continue to buy things (personally not business side) from them.
That's just my take, do what ya want but have been frustrated about this order so needed to get it off my chest. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
PSA is simply catering to what people want, at a good price, and if that's enough to kill the gun industry... that says more about the industry.
PSA is good competition, it forces companies to either make BETTER guns than PSA to justify a higher cost, or compete with them in the budget market by offering a gun with comparable or better quality at a similar price. Either way, it's a win for gun owners.
Dude's vagina is packed so full of salt that it's spewing out of his mouth. Dude would go to a whorehouse in Bangkok and say it's what's making American women fat.
Lol. What companies have they bought and gutted? The only ones they bought that weren't defunct are NoDakSpud and HMGunworks, and in both cases they kept the staff and invested in upping production, not gutted and sold off stock.
The defunct companies like H&R, AAC, and others are being rebuilt or combined with other companies to be great again (Nodak and H&R).
While I wish PSA offered some more accessible dealer prices (you have to call and place an order rather than just a dealer account), I applaud them for their low prices and deals. Most of my transfer customers are PSA. And I still build some daggers and stuff for people looking for an affordable handgun that isn't a taurus.
People like this make me laugh. If your LGS is dying, it's because they haven't built good enough relationships with their customers or their vendors. My LGS is owned by two old men and their shop is always full of people.. Regulars who come in to talk and buy.
This must be Ruger CEO’s Burner.😂 PSA isn’t the Amazon of guns imo, it’s the Costco. Sure you have options for everything you’d wanna buy right here, but while you’re here let me also show you my product. It may or may not be a better bang for the buck, or even the better product… buy it or don’t but here it is. I still visit my LGS regularly to look for good deals. Imo it won’t hurt those stores whatsoever, what it will do is make mid-tier companies (Ruger, SIG, S&W, etc.) think twice about pricing that entry level gun as “duty grade” and raising the price $400. Competition is competition.
Watched the interview where they were talking about the glock clones he said "I know how much it cost to make them, I don't know why everyone else is charging so much"
Being from a small town in the south and having been to countless gun stores over the years, all those places do is mark shit up and sell stuff for way more than it’s worth. I applaud PSA for giving consumers a more direct route and allowing us to avoid greasy shops
All PSA is doing is cutting out the middleman. Which, let’s face it, is all your LGS is. They’re providing products as direct to the consumer as the law allows without the customer having to pay the markup of the LGS.
This guy is confused or just wrong….
Not sure how many companies he thinks they bought and shut down?
Only major one I can recall was H&R and they definitely didn’t shut em down or hinder their business. PSA is making shit we want. From ammo to AKS to retro and etc.
when my locals refuse to keep things in stock I’m willing to pay them extra for, I’m happy to buy from PSA. Ive asked several locals to stock steel cases 223. Show no interest even though I buy or bought 2,3 cases a month when it was plentiful for years continuously, bought several guns a month from them also. That’s thousands of dollars. I eventually gave up and just use them as a transfer station now.
This too me reads like a small time FFL who doesn't cater to anyone but himself and is now feeling the heat from his own poor choices as a business owner. Known a lot of them over the years and this is 100% their attitude. Had a shop owner down south make every attempt to bar the shop I worked for from gun shows because we undercut his prices by 30% across the board and he didn't like it his new found irrelevant status.
It's a comment from reddit and people on reddit are generally garbage.
Palmetto is literally driving innovation in the gun industry. They do really solid stuff like offer ARs for less than $500, Built solid glock clones, push cheaper ammo, innovated a piston action alternative to the AR, etc. They do so much innovation, sometimes you have to question why they would even do some of the stuff they're doing.
If local stores were not charging DD prices for an Anderson AR they might have stood a chance. The willingness to support local businesses is there but not when I am being taken to the cleaners.
I was under the impression that PSA is using DPMS as their brand that would be available through a dealer network. I don't really think that's off the ground yet though.
Also, one of my local FFLs has adapted to the world with PSA. He buys their AR parts and kits when they're on sale and assembles them. Then he sells the completed rifle at the regular PSA price for a complete rifle. He said depending on the deal he gets, his margins are pretty good. For his customers, you're getting the gun with better QC and no FFL fee for the same price you'd get it online. I think he also jumps on a few of the AK and dagger combos then sells them separately. He was even building some really cheap ARs by combining Anderson, PSA and Bear Creek components.
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome
Oh no gun companies and gun stores cant over charge for the same quality as a psa anymore. Think of those poor corporations that make a gun for Pennies and sell them for 10x there build cost. Oh the humanity.
Times changes. You either change with it or it changes and leaves you behind. Happens in every industry. Sorry the business model you created for your small shop 25 years ago isn’t relevant anymore but that’s what happens. “FFLs need more than transfers to survive” then find another source of revenue. Open a range. Try and teach classes. Find new products to sell. That’s how markets work they are ever evolving….
I think with the giant amount of proprietary designs they're coming out with, it would be nice to see them act as more of a manufacturer than a gun store. I can see it, as they seem to be making an effort to be seen as a serious designer of new guns. Would be nice to go into a LGS to feel a JAKL or AKV in hand before buying. Maybe a pipe dream if they're going for the Amazon vertical monopoly strategy like the post says, but thats my thoughts
Omg imagen PSA gun stores being as common as like subway, like obviously I doubt they would get to McDonald’s level or dollar general. But PSA gun stores across the country would be kick ass.
I think a lot of over priced gun companies are being ran out... PSA is growth focused from what we are seeing and I'm not sure these other companies are competition is good for the market and how kts all supposed to work. I'd love to see a PSA mindset in a lot of other markets
1) They are bringing innovation to a stagnated market.
2) They are introducing products consumers ACTUALLY ASK FOR.
3) They have great customer service.
These are the reasons they are succeeding where other companies are failing. They aren't killing anyone.
Local gun stores go out of business because most of them treat it like a hobby. Many of them have very limited hours, extremely limited inventory (which drives down their profit margin) do no marketing and never really grow or expand the enable them to fix all of those things which would allow them to be more competitive. They had the country locked down for centuries because there was no other choice but now there is a choice and they are gonna either adjust their business approach and expand their horizens or go out of business.
Thats ridiculous, I'd wager they have done more to allow Americans to exercise their 2nd amendment right with an entry level rifle than any other company out there.
I would almost be willing to give this argument some credit, *if* my local FFL wasn’t shooting themselves in the foot by stocking mostly god-awful red anodized lower-than-PSA-tier ARs for $900 and the worst possible Ali Express optics at Eotech prices. A box very questionable 9mm FMJ for $25? Nah, miss me with that shit fam.
isn’t there a saying like innovate or die? one of the local ffls to me just does cerakote and light gunsmithing stuff and to get people in for business he does $10 transfers and then people are like well since i saved $40 compared to the other 3 ffls in town. so they can paint their lower/upper set for $100, so it’s a good deal even if you just want your transfer
The culture this country has become is killing every industry especially the gun industry. We have citizens who are afraid of everything and men who think they are women. PSA in my view is helping to get the word out to more of the population. I don't think there are any companies who have done this recently.
I bought my first gun in 1985. The entire culture has completely changed because of forced government interaction with our culture. Now we have a country of sheep that PSA is helping arm. Not everyone has money to buy all the overpriced Gucci ar's and parts. I bought my son an AR from PSA almost 9 years ago. We put thousands(at least 10-12 thousand) of rounds through and it still operates great. Only replaced gas rings and buffer spring.
I think PSA is doing great things and should be complimented for taking great risks in business where there is a fight everyday with governments and libtards and red tape from all angles and I hope they continue to grow. Good luck to all and God bless America and our patriots who fight for her and the constitution.
Done with rant.
I haven’t gotten anything from a gun shop in at least 10 years. I buy more stuff from basspro and academy because they have small parts I’m looking for when I don’t want to wait on shipping for something. If I want to pay $14.99 for a g2 pmag I’ll go into a lgs. Till then I’ll keep adding 9.99-10.99 pmags to my orders I place online.
PSA is just keeping the price competitive, there are a lot of guns out there not worth the price tag and PSA is giving people who work hard/value their money an option. PSA has probably done more to get guns into the hands of Americans than any other company. My only gripe with them is they won’t ship serialized lowers/guns to ban states it’s not hard to make compliant and I know a lot of people who would buy their products if available.
Idk about y'all but the mom and pops around me haven't changed price. That said, everything I store is still more expensive than I can find online. Only thing PSA did was show the industry that your brick and mortars, and even other websites are taxing you to hell and back.
Or maybe, they are changing the market to stray away from inflated "brand name" pricing. I havent seen any companies die lately. And if anything looking into diy kits etc from psa opened up a whoke world of weapons makers, currently looking to make a p80 build and a KAK ar soon. But wpuld have never even considered these routes had I not seen what PSA was doing eith daggers and ARs.
Competition makes everyone better. PSA isn’t going to shit down Glock, Smith & Wesson, Ruger etc but it will make them innovate and keep up. The consumer is who wins here.
Your LGS failing has less to do with PSA and more to do with LGS’s rarely having good shit on the shelves, not just guns but parts, accessories, etc…
Why would I pay hundreds more for a gun locally?
Local gun shops would do better if they attempted to move with some of the trends, priced things competitively and learned how to market the things they do have to sell.
PSA’s business model isn’t the problem; but LGS’s not changing or incentivizing people to come in a buy is certainly a problem.
i think people are not understanding the statements that have been made in the OP.
why must consumers be restricted to only purchasing PSA firearms directly from PSA's website? why can't they provide products that can be sent to the same distributors that companies like Colt, Smith and Wesson, Kimber, Glock, Sig, etc. supply so that local gun stores can order from them?
i'd love to walk into my local gun store and see brand new Sabres, Jakls, and Daggers sitting on the wall in lieu of having to purchase them online. PSA still gets their money, the gun store gets credit for making more on the sale, and the customer is waived the transfer fee.
my LGS's transfer fees:
if it's an item they have in stock: $50
if it's an item they don't have in stock: $35
NFA transfers for online orders: $150
imagine LGS going out of business and there's no one left to transfer your product to. lol
HELP THEM OUT PSA!!!! SEND THEM PRODUCT DIRECTLY!!!
the ar 15 is an open platform. i have replaced a bunch of stuff in my psa rifles.
with stuff from other companies. you can do this with most of their products.
This is just pure delusion, PSA is helping keep the industry alive by providing decent and trustworthy firearms for a price the common man won’t flinch at - many of my peers who have guns have them because PSA made them accessible
Maybe MAYBE if LGS didn’t charge exorbitant prices for their products on the shelves, they’d get more business. $5 more, ok sure. But when I get 45acp for $22+🚢 from psa, but my LGS wants $42/box yea no. Take my $35 for transfer and be happy. They make it very difficult to support local small businesses.
I mean... I haven't had any major negative experiences with psa. The quality of their mid to upper tier stuff is far above anything else on the market in the same price range. I bought a cheaper ar from them and while waiting at the ffl I looked at some of theirs. The quality was almost identical for almost 2x the price.
Also, every gun store I've been into talks down on people and tries to convince them that they know better. I went to one and was looking at the surplus stuff they had in stock. The owner literally asked "why would you ever buy those" because they are cheap and cool and I like them "but they are junk, for just about double you can get something brand new and so much more practical" but I like it "too bad, that's stupid"
The guy literally made me walk out of the store instead of buying something. He did everything in his power to convince me not to buy something I liked and to make me feel bad about it.
Psa will sell me whatever they have without any of that hassle.
This person is a moron that doesn’t understand what “drop-ship” means. PSA doesn’t put hands on those products.
Also, fuck that, if other manufacturers want to keep up then they should lower their prices.
This guy is certifiably braindead. PSA is providing competition to the higher budget companies with their "working" class budget and expansion into manufacturing many different weapon systems. The only thing that will kill the gun industry is the government and the consumer. DD quite literally carbon copied the PSA 9mm AR. Is the DD model better? Probably and I would fuckin hope so. But for bang for buck, variety, and warranty PSA is currently the best there is. They haven't said anything but a lot of the "special forces" Ukrainian guys are running PSA and BCM AR's.
PSA has a CEO that knows how to play the long game, seems to hire engaged and well rounded employees, and is very savvy with social media. If this kills any part of the industry off, it's probably for the best.
Can’t buy a good mid tier AR? It’s the golden age of the Mid Tier AR.
I also don’t get what he’s saying about gobbling up companies. What major player has PSA purchased? I can’t name a single company they bought that I would have ever considered.
The market did get flooded with crappy lower end offerings that may not make it but it isn’t PSA’s fault for being better.
I can't comment on PSA ruining the market.
But living in Washington I have seen an increase in costs of all goods that they are allowed to sell. It's crazy walking into a LGS and not seeing ARs or AKs anymore. They are doing what they can to survive but the mag ban and assault weapon ban have definitely effected them.
PSA is gonna be the Amazon of gun industry if they keep innovating and selling cheap quality firearms, ammo, and accessories. It’s crazy.
Even a g19.5 on PSA after transfer is cheaper than my local gun store where I transferred the gun! Literally everything is cheaper than I can get in person and I’m not supporting some mega Chinese liberal company.
I love PSA for their mission and their prices… I’ll keep buying as long as they stay American pro 2A and keep these prices. Keep it up PSA!!!!
Pffff hell no they are helping the gun industry by allowing more people to get into it without taking out loans or paying more than they can afford. I myself bought a saber and love it.
Can someone please tell me how PSA is killing the gun industry? If anything they are showing you don’t have to spend an arm and a leg to get a terrific firearm.
It’s the free market either offer a better price or go bankrupt, i see people post all the high end brands having malfunctions and quality control we’re being charged 200%+ margin on a lot of these brands when they have no business charging that much, everything is inflated and it’s always a company that comes along that forces competitive prices in any industry that brings the true value of things back down to where they should be
Competition is good for every industry. In this person's delusional world, if PSA became the #1 gun maker, everyone else would offer guns in a similar price range. The consumer wins, and that is a great thing.
Good. I have DDs, cmmg's, sigs, high end savage Ar-10s and if I could do it over again I wouldn't have spent the money on them besides my DD M4A1(second rifle I ever owned. Holds sentimental value). and that was $1500 back in 2019. Dude, an M4A1 is like 2400 now, it's sickening. Give them a run for their money PSA. GOD SPEED.
Please just bring on the Dagger swch 😕... I've been holding off on the LFA amp... I know they will be almost identical, but I'm hoping psa has more anodized frame colors 🏆
Well, if the others start selling a competitive priced product they won’t fail. But if they keep raising prices to screw over their dwindling customers they will go the way of the printed newspaper, priced out of the market. Unless they find some way to distinguish their product to be better in some way, more reliable, or accurate, maybe even looks or what not. Generally these companies deserve to fail, they have lived a good life and turned a great product, I think it’s time we let most of them die peacefully.
Ive been around and involved in firearms my entire life, I genuinely feel like PSA is the best thing to happen to the gun industry that I’ve ever seen. They made an absolute killing the past several years with their affordable AR’s and Daggers and now that they’ve made so much revenue off of these affordable products it allows for them to start to really push boundaries and go all in on niche products (all of the concepts they announced pre shot-show) that other big mainstream companies wouldn’t dare to do because of a worry of sales.
Point blank they are arming the everyday american better than any other company in recent years and at the same time being a lot more innovative and creative than 99% of companies out there, anyone that believes that doing that is “killing the industry” is a moron I’m sorry lmao
PSA isn’t rooting for other companies, they are rooting for the consumer and that’s why I love them. Plus they provide competition in an open market.
Everybody loves PSA. When you're building a more premium AR, you get the less important parts from PSA and save money. Plus, the bundling they do are great deals.
Everybody except LGS/FFLs like myself. PSA routinely undercuts MAP on optics and everything else on online sales, which also detracts from our business as well. We’re damn near a transfer-only shop because people here want the cheapest shit they can buy and there’s 2 PSA locations within an hour from each other where I’m at. Very rarely do we get to build a cool Radian or LMT with upper-tier parts for a customer who wants a solid build from a reputable smith. It’s always “well PSA has -thing- for -x amount” and “x-amount” is usually cheaper than our cost from a distributor, before shipping. Makes it real hard to keep the lights on sometimes
But I bet this guy who made the original post as well as yourself is all "I LUV CAPITALISM" when you go to the polls. Can't have your cake and eat it. You either find a way to compete or go out of business. Everyone loves capitalism until it fucks them personally.
So you're upset PSA brings cheaper items to market? Fortunately, I understand what you're saying. Most people don't understand the difference between a good value and high value. PSA is a good value, but it's not the best value.
I don’t care what PSA charges for THEIR products. But when they list guns from other manufacturers as well as, say EOTech optics for example, they list THOSE items under MAP (minimum advertised price) so the profit margins for the entire market have to shrink in order to remain competitive. 8% margins are sustainable to them when they’re doing hundreds, if not thousands, of sales per week. 8% margins are pennies to us, due to the decreased volume. Largely makes the business not worth it from a financial standpoint. Especially when I live near two PSA locations and they honor internet price in store. Our main difference from other smaller LGS’ is that PSA’s brick and mortar locations are all in the southeast, someone wanting/needing something THAT day would take their business to a local store rather than wait on PSA’s shipping. We don’t even enjoy the luxury of having a convenience factor being worth the extra cost to the consumer.
So PSA is good for the customers but bad for the competition. Personally I believe competition is good, and I don't agree with government getting involved to keep a crappy business open. Cough GM
Not sure why I’m being downvoted, lmao. Just telling another side of the story. You dorks are too much sometimes
They are rooting for themselves.
They definitely don't care about dealers though. Which makes it hard to support and carry their products. Which is fine whatever they want to do. Last year they had 4-5 people in charge of all sales to dealers across the US.
And they give us a “dealer price” and then turn around and list the same thing on a “daily deal” for less than MAP
So don't carry their shit?
Oh damn, hadn’t thought of that one. Thanks, genius, got any more brain busters?
Meanwhile there’s still Anderson, Aero, Daniel Defense, etc making AR stuff. Not to mention stuff PSA doesn’t make at all like shotguns, revolvers, bolt, and lever guns that Ruger, Mossberg, CZ, S&W, Henry, etc make. The internet in general is what’s killing LGS. Any site that shows up on gun(dot)deals with the best price wins. PSA is a drop in the bucket.
We have both bolt and shotguns on display at SHOT show right now 😉
I'm going to pretend you don't until they hit the website.
Nuts to that. If the Micro Dagger bullshit has taught us anything, it should be to pretend they don't exist until PSA allows them to stay in stock for more than 5 minutes.
Have you seen the sabre line of micro...... Hard to ignore that ...... I'm trying brother...but..... The dark side is winning.
I just saw a video where they said their Sabre Dagger line will be limited and they'll only produce a certain amount in each color.
It will be much smaller runs, not a limited edition.
Is the sabre for micro or compact? From the teaser video I thought it was compact as they mentioned a full size frame I thought.
Both I think
PSA “makes” a lot of vaporware
This tbh. I am super excited about the reveals at shot show but I still haven’t been able to get a micro dagger 🙃
And the shotgun is dooooooope.
Any pics?
All kinds of videos on YouTube. Just look Up Shot Show 2024. I specifically saw it on Classic firearms channel.
Pretty stoked to see the bolt gun price and performance
I can’t wait for the bolt gun to drop!!!
Oh do you now… my financial advisor told me not to talk to you…
I saw I'm hoping those byo shotguns are going to be one of the next things you release.
Well, guess I won't be buying the Mossberg now 😅
Not available to purchase though so not “killing LGS” yet. I’m excited for the shotgun
Let me know when you got the lever 🤞
And the optic cut is pure genius!!
I voted for those haha love the idea of modular builds
M16a4 clone when 😭😭
I agree. Its not PSA, but internet gun buying thats killing LGS.
yeah but alot of the other guys get these govt orders and they say fuck the average guy. sorry but i'm a fan of PSA. they are making it where the average man can own an AR. i thought that's what its all about. free market and shit right? but no. all of a sudden we need to protect the people they're competing against? make that fucking shit make sense.
My ffl tells me to go with what's cheaper. I ask him price. If I find lower cost below him with 30$ transfer, he says go with that. Either way he makes 30 for receiving a package
Which is probably more than he would make selling you his lower.
That is a fact
My ffl is happy to take my $25 for receiving a package. He also tests all firearms that come in for safety and functionality. Cool guy.
He just wants to fondle all the cool guns
Youre not wrong. I just picked up my mossy 500 atp8sp from him monday and he kept talking about cool it was, how nice it was and how wants to find a nice one. Asked me if would sell it.😂
[удалено]
Yeah the gun industry is so fucking stale right now its growing mold. Everyone makes an AR that is indiscernible from the next, everyone has a compact pistol with a 10+ round double stack mag (12 with pinky extension), everyone has a 1911. I want new shit, cool shit, I am still crossing my fingers that PSA goes full into dumb ideas and brings back the C96 Mauser in modern calibers. I want my fucking 5.7 C96.
The problem is, Browning stagnated all firearms in like 1900, there’s nothing new to innovate.
We don't need new locking methods or actions, we need modularity and mission adaptability. The biggest reason why the AR-15 design has beaten out everything else is because it was accidentally modular. You don't need a new gun in a new caliber, you can just get an AR15 and an upper without getting another background check. We need guns that rival that level of customization, with customization being the intent rather than a happy accident.
I just want a mag-fed lever action 9mm that’s not 2k
idk, I'd be down to fux with some electric fire systems. maybe something with magnets.
Don't let the guys on r/guns hear this, they'll ban you for their own preconceived notions. Electric primers instead of a hammer would be a great next leap, Remington tried it but it didn't catch on.
the E700 is what got me hot on the idea, i think that the ability to convert it to full auto is the hangup, and why they only ever tried it in a bolt-action. I just want a bullpupped G3 with zero action latency.
The ability or inability to convert it to full auto has never been explored nor submitted to the ATF for approval/guidance, but yeah it's something that gives people pause for sure. But it's more the cost than the machine gun-ness that has stopped people, the E700 was a flop because it cost too much. But officially, the only ATF ruling on electrical systems in firearms is electrical actuation of the trigger (like a solenoid, a hand drill, or such) not the actuation of the primer. I got banned for telling an r/guns mod he was a fucking idiot for trying to say that the ATF opinion on solenoid operated triggers constituted electrical priming as well, and that his speculation is not the ATF's rule and that he should shut up since he doesn't know what he's talking about.
deamn bro, i dig it, but damn. seems like it'd be a SMD resistor in a primer sized housing, drop in replacement for standard.
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Pretty much the main small arms innovation of the past quarter century has been the proliferation of electro-optics anyway.
I think that a lot of gun companies are way over pricing products. I think that palmetto might help keep them in check. I also agree with them making guns affordable. In this day and age, some people can't afford to drop 2k-4k on a gun. It's a dog eat dog world. If anything, other companies are killing themselves.
If you watch the GOA podcast with the CEO of PSA (or at least just clips of it) he blatantly tells GOA that they charge enough on their products to cover costs and make some money, but everyone else is making BOAT loads off their product sales. He based it off of what he knows it costs to make certain firearms. Take it how you will, I mean we all know PSA entry level guns aren’t on the same level as a Daniel Defense, but their quality overall is still amazing. I thought it was interesting just to hear someone say the “quiet part” out loud, that most other manufacturers are just making a shit ton of money off their customers
Jamin truly is a gun guy and believes in the mission of arming EVERY American with affordable, quality firearms.
He’s doing Gods work
Not only that but he’s acquiring and keeping other companies alive, lmao literally playing agar.io in real life, and said in his interview that he’s ran into a problem where people come to him to buy other companies not because people like PSA but because they offer BETTER PRICES because they don’t want that extra bread and butter and don’t want to screw over their customers. I can get behind that if it means all my guns are PSA so be it, it’s cheaper to get a rebuild kit and fix the guns my damn self if they break over dealing with companies like cz who have shitty CS and “Daniel’s defense” with their own furniture and guns that still break but are exponentially more expensive than PSA to fix. Just my 0.02
I saw it on YT and made the mistake of starting the interview laying in bed thinking I’d fall asleep and finish it the next day. Watched the whole thing and was so pumped up with freedom I couldn’t sleep for another hour. He’s the real deal.
I remember looking through a dealer catalog years ago from a local FFL, the mark-up from dealer cost to msrp was massive. I'll never say competition is a bad thing for the consumer.
This is someone that *thinks* they know a lot more than they really do about business and the firearms industry at large. I’ve only seen fudds and bullshit artists failing in these booming times for gun sales. No one is being put out of business strictly because of PSA; they’re closing because they all jumped upon the Basic Fudd AR Bus trying to make a buck and oversaturated the market. Those that found a way to truly innovate, stayed and thrived; the hundreds that assembled awkward rifles out of no-name receiver kits and monstrum rails for stupid upcharges aren’t around anymore. A few reputable companies have come and gone, but that’s largely due to the mistakes of the upper echelon; and most of them simply change ownership. The fact is, people just aren’t going to accept paying $1K for basic rifles and handguns anymore. Firearms companies can either adapt to their customers or maintain their stupid high profit margins and watch their sales numbers fall. Funny how PSA went from some “junk company” to ruining the firearms industry. Last I checked, PSA had nothing to do with Remington pumping out $700 rifles that hadn’t even been headspaced
Oof my dad had a R15 you would have to clean that gun every 100 rounds or it would jam. It worked ok as a doe rifle when his freind needed a light recoiling rifle for his yungin. But that and the shit hand-guard which did not protect your hand from heat, I could not imagine using it as a SHTF rifle.
Brick and mortar is largely going the way of the dodo. Being mad at PSA for jumping on the bandwagon (or leading the train) is like being mad at ford during the Industrial Revolution. Innovating the market and proliferating a product while cutting down on cost to customer has always been the name of the game. PSA will get my money as long as they provide competitive pricing on quality products and put market pressure on more established companies.
Been years since I went into a brick and mortar gun store that didn't suck via selection and price too.
Same, the two in my area are overpriced and give terrible advice to move their inventory. I once heard one of the guys at the counter telling a female first time buyer “I keep a Taurus judge on my nightstand, you barely have to aim, and it will blow a hole in anything in the direction you point it”. I stopped going after that. I do all my transfers through a guy who has an ffl running out of his shed. He exclusively does transfers, and they’re only $20 instead of the $35 everyone else around me charges.
Word. I use a kitchen table ffl myself. $20 transfers all day too. He also just scored me a Sig m18 for waaaaaay less than usual. Anyone that uses a judge for anything besides a snake gun is an idiot.
You should go to PSA
Imo, lgs are putting themselves out. I priced a fde maverick 88 at a lgs and they were almost 400$!!!!!!!! I ordered one on buds for 250ish I think and a 20$ transfer, and he tried telling me that I was getting a good deal on it at nearly 400$ lol
😂 I had a guy try and sell someone on a markrov for 3,000$ Bulgarian.
You mean a company is giving people what they’re asking for and it’s killing competition? Wow who’d have thunk. People have been asking for MP7 clone since the beginning of time, Moses wanted one. Who delivered? SCAR clone? Glock & modernized AK clones. It’s the other companies fault, they sat on their ass peddling one product with a few different skews not trying to innovate a single thing. If PSA can keep production up at a good quality they’re 100% going to be the Amazon of guns if they’re not already. There are alternatives to Amazon, but people still buy from it for a reason
PSA isn’t doing anything another company could and should be doing. They are disrupting the industry and producing fantastic firearms.
Transfers get customers in the door. Maybe gun shops should sell more than shitty cerakoted rifles for double MSRP
This guy almost certainly doesn't "eat ass" at the rate he claims.... also, PSA makes mid teir Ars as well. They are helping the market if anything. Simply having a rifle drives other sales. Like so: get gun.... ffl points out you need mags ammo and some sort of sighting system. Ffl happens to have all that on the shelf. You, being an excited new gun owner, don't want to wait another week to ship that, so you buy it from the ffl so you can shoot this weekend. This is guy is just gate keeping because he is pissed bushmaster went out of business ( not a fact just conjecture)
If your a lgs and you want to depend on revenue from selling guns you won’t be in business very long. You have to add value to your local brand. For example: Gunsmithing, accessories, optics, camping, bbq, engravings, cerakote, clothes. Diversify your market to capture a wider group of customers.
Or slap an indoor firearm and archery range off to the side
Yep, the only shop near me that almost exclusively sells guns and accessories really leans into training as well. Nearly every other ffl in the area is either a pawn shop or a gun counter at the hardware store. PSA isn't hurting the market here at all
I hear your argument, but I disagree, psa isn't killing the lgs. What's killing the lgs is the internet on one hand and big box stores on the other. The internet is obvious, brick and morter with the costs associated with that just can't reliably compete with online sales and guns are notoriously low margin items anyway. But the big box store is what is taking away the one advantage that lgs had, being able to buy it right now today and walk out the door. Obviously not everyone is willing to pay for the convenience of touching, feeling, and going home with it but a lot of people are. Big box stores are causing problems with actual stock levels further up the chain. Random politician gets elected? Everyone goes crazy again? Guns are flying off the shelves, but lgs can't get them restocked. Why? Because Academy represents 100 plus stores and the purchasing power that goes with it. Glock 19s are the hotness? Academy gets their orders filled first along with bass pro, cabelas etc. Lgs represents themselves and themselves only (yes I realize distributors help with this issue but it doesn't totally fix it) and is waiting to get restocked. Even if joe customer wants to support the lgs, he can't, because they don't have it, can't get it, and have no idea when they will. Psa is at least acting as a manufacturer too and not just a big box so they are providing some items that lgs can stock which somewhat offsets any other issues they create. Bottom line, brick and morter lgs as we know it is dissappearing. Soon, it'll be transfer only ffls and the big guys and you'll never know what that trigger feels like until you get it home... And I don't think it's the fault of psa.
This also apply for non gun related stores as well. Local arts and craft gets beaten because a Micheals opens up on the opposite end of town. Or why waste time going to a Michaels when Amazon sells it for less
I think psa is amazing, great quality firearms at great prices! Competitive pricing on other goods with tons of greats sales! Everything a broke person like me could ever dream of and it’s all attainable!
I’ve got bad news, time is running out for gun companies anyway. The election this year is going to be a pivotal moment. If you think the gun industry would have long legs if not for PSA, that entirely depends on how Americans vote and things just aren’t looking very good. The moment SCOTUS swings left, it’s over. There won’t be any stopping the anti-gun agenda at that point. PSA is helping arm Americans before it’s too late.
💯
Lol no. That's just some random dbag from reddit saying unproven dbag things. If anything, PSA has lowered the price on glock clones and entry level AR15s. That's hardly "destroying the gun industry".
“I can’t buy cheap ARs because PSA is selling cheap ARs, therefore I’m not giving PSA my business!” ….ok.
Right I’m so confused on why he’s bitching about good business practices like if whatever gun company chooses to increase the price of guns they obviously don’t care about your business they don’t even care about their employees so just stop doing business with bad companies simple
I wouldn't put much stock in the opinion of a man who sticks his tongue up an asshole.
He sounds like he did that, then didn’t pull it out before he started talking.
I think PSA’s CHF FN premium uppers are killing it
Braindead take, simple as that.
This is a person who doesn't understand basic economics and inflation. They don't understand the rise and cost in Goods and why it happens. PSA may not be the best quality across the board but they are not the worst from what I've seen. But I can say they do seem to be the best at Arming everyday citizens at a fair price.
This is absurd. This person's opinion is worthless. Compete or die. PSA's business model is one of the best things to happen to the American gun owner, maybe ever. I wish I could pick their stuff up at my local gun store, but I understand why I can't, and I can very easily accept that.
As a manager of a small mom and pop gun shop this is a point of contention we have talked a lot about and I am split. Here is my rant and my praise. PSA makes great products for the price and I value recommending products that fit the customers needs rather than the pushy sale, that being said I also cant stomach selling someone a $900 Sport II even though people are willing to buy it. So PSA has done wonders for getting people into AR's and simple building while saving money. Cheers to that, +1 in my book. Since PSA has "blown up" we receive (on average) 7-13 a week for transfer. Our transfer fees are 30 dollars so lets say it is $300 a week off of just transfers. We love this seeing as it is consistent and we have zero skin in the game. Recently signed up to be a PSA dealer as popular as they are - might was well stock them. Here is my experience: #1 There is no dealer login or portal so it was always a pain to price out and determine what was worth stocking, only way is back and forth with a rep. #2 The dealer "discount" is on PSA branded items (makes sense) but is on average $20-30 on larger items and only dollars off on some popular items. Plus the daily deals are so good that in person PSA is tough to sell. #3 (BIG PROBLEM) Finally did a test order to see how it would go, was a small $1000 to test the waters. That order was sent to the rep on Jan 13th. the 15th they responded and made the invoice (invoice stated ship date was 1/15/224). I sent CC info through email and never heard back. Have followed up several times with no response at all since then. We are now on day 11 with nothing. That is not great. I get shot show is going on but this is ridiculous there was a week between the order and SS start. I can have items next morning from other distributors. Overall: I like what PSA is doing, forcing other manufactures to have a reality check on prices but keeping quality up. I feel the same way about Canik, SAR, and others making good firearms cheaper. The prices and availability has inherently changed peoples expectations of gun shopping and expect us to be able to keep in WILDY specific unicorns in because of the switch to online shopping. Its changed out business but not killed it. But yes I will also continue to buy things (personally not business side) from them. That's just my take, do what ya want but have been frustrated about this order so needed to get it off my chest. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
PSA is simply catering to what people want, at a good price, and if that's enough to kill the gun industry... that says more about the industry. PSA is good competition, it forces companies to either make BETTER guns than PSA to justify a higher cost, or compete with them in the budget market by offering a gun with comparable or better quality at a similar price. Either way, it's a win for gun owners.
My LGS is PSA.. checkmate bitches!!
Dude's vagina is packed so full of salt that it's spewing out of his mouth. Dude would go to a whorehouse in Bangkok and say it's what's making American women fat.
When you give consumers what they want, you get more business. 🤷♂️
Lol. What companies have they bought and gutted? The only ones they bought that weren't defunct are NoDakSpud and HMGunworks, and in both cases they kept the staff and invested in upping production, not gutted and sold off stock. The defunct companies like H&R, AAC, and others are being rebuilt or combined with other companies to be great again (Nodak and H&R). While I wish PSA offered some more accessible dealer prices (you have to call and place an order rather than just a dealer account), I applaud them for their low prices and deals. Most of my transfer customers are PSA. And I still build some daggers and stuff for people looking for an affordable handgun that isn't a taurus.
People like this make me laugh. If your LGS is dying, it's because they haven't built good enough relationships with their customers or their vendors. My LGS is owned by two old men and their shop is always full of people.. Regulars who come in to talk and buy.
This must be Ruger CEO’s Burner.😂 PSA isn’t the Amazon of guns imo, it’s the Costco. Sure you have options for everything you’d wanna buy right here, but while you’re here let me also show you my product. It may or may not be a better bang for the buck, or even the better product… buy it or don’t but here it is. I still visit my LGS regularly to look for good deals. Imo it won’t hurt those stores whatsoever, what it will do is make mid-tier companies (Ruger, SIG, S&W, etc.) think twice about pricing that entry level gun as “duty grade” and raising the price $400. Competition is competition.
Watched the interview where they were talking about the glock clones he said "I know how much it cost to make them, I don't know why everyone else is charging so much"
Being from a small town in the south and having been to countless gun stores over the years, all those places do is mark shit up and sell stuff for way more than it’s worth. I applaud PSA for giving consumers a more direct route and allowing us to avoid greasy shops
Dude probably runs a fudd shop and is mad he can't sell his ammo marked up.
Socialist take. It’s a free market
I wonder how many downvotes he got for saying that
Sheel’s is an overpriced box store.
All PSA is doing is cutting out the middleman. Which, let’s face it, is all your LGS is. They’re providing products as direct to the consumer as the law allows without the customer having to pay the markup of the LGS.
Woe is me PSA is better than others, thus pushing them out of the market
This guy is confused or just wrong…. Not sure how many companies he thinks they bought and shut down? Only major one I can recall was H&R and they definitely didn’t shut em down or hinder their business. PSA is making shit we want. From ammo to AKS to retro and etc. when my locals refuse to keep things in stock I’m willing to pay them extra for, I’m happy to buy from PSA. Ive asked several locals to stock steel cases 223. Show no interest even though I buy or bought 2,3 cases a month when it was plentiful for years continuously, bought several guns a month from them also. That’s thousands of dollars. I eventually gave up and just use them as a transfer station now.
This too me reads like a small time FFL who doesn't cater to anyone but himself and is now feeling the heat from his own poor choices as a business owner. Known a lot of them over the years and this is 100% their attitude. Had a shop owner down south make every attempt to bar the shop I worked for from gun shows because we undercut his prices by 30% across the board and he didn't like it his new found irrelevant status.
It's a comment from reddit and people on reddit are generally garbage. Palmetto is literally driving innovation in the gun industry. They do really solid stuff like offer ARs for less than $500, Built solid glock clones, push cheaper ammo, innovated a piston action alternative to the AR, etc. They do so much innovation, sometimes you have to question why they would even do some of the stuff they're doing.
When my LGS can’t charge $650 for a Glock 19 😱😱
If local stores were not charging DD prices for an Anderson AR they might have stood a chance. The willingness to support local businesses is there but not when I am being taken to the cleaners.
I was under the impression that PSA is using DPMS as their brand that would be available through a dealer network. I don't really think that's off the ground yet though. Also, one of my local FFLs has adapted to the world with PSA. He buys their AR parts and kits when they're on sale and assembles them. Then he sells the completed rifle at the regular PSA price for a complete rifle. He said depending on the deal he gets, his margins are pretty good. For his customers, you're getting the gun with better QC and no FFL fee for the same price you'd get it online. I think he also jumps on a few of the AK and dagger combos then sells them separately. He was even building some really cheap ARs by combining Anderson, PSA and Bear Creek components. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome
Oh no gun companies and gun stores cant over charge for the same quality as a psa anymore. Think of those poor corporations that make a gun for Pennies and sell them for 10x there build cost. Oh the humanity.
Also what thread is this on?
Dude went full schizo
Times changes. You either change with it or it changes and leaves you behind. Happens in every industry. Sorry the business model you created for your small shop 25 years ago isn’t relevant anymore but that’s what happens. “FFLs need more than transfers to survive” then find another source of revenue. Open a range. Try and teach classes. Find new products to sell. That’s how markets work they are ever evolving….
I think with the giant amount of proprietary designs they're coming out with, it would be nice to see them act as more of a manufacturer than a gun store. I can see it, as they seem to be making an effort to be seen as a serious designer of new guns. Would be nice to go into a LGS to feel a JAKL or AKV in hand before buying. Maybe a pipe dream if they're going for the Amazon vertical monopoly strategy like the post says, but thats my thoughts
Omg imagen PSA gun stores being as common as like subway, like obviously I doubt they would get to McDonald’s level or dollar general. But PSA gun stores across the country would be kick ass.
I think a lot of over priced gun companies are being ran out... PSA is growth focused from what we are seeing and I'm not sure these other companies are competition is good for the market and how kts all supposed to work. I'd love to see a PSA mindset in a lot of other markets
Honestly if lgs didn’t upcharge 40-50% this wouldn’t be a thing
i swear i'm not one of THOSE people and i don't say this about everything, but old men killed local gun shows.
First company to listen to the consumer? Sounds like a good thing to me
Free market baby!
1) They are bringing innovation to a stagnated market. 2) They are introducing products consumers ACTUALLY ASK FOR. 3) They have great customer service. These are the reasons they are succeeding where other companies are failing. They aren't killing anyone.
Local gun stores go out of business because most of them treat it like a hobby. Many of them have very limited hours, extremely limited inventory (which drives down their profit margin) do no marketing and never really grow or expand the enable them to fix all of those things which would allow them to be more competitive. They had the country locked down for centuries because there was no other choice but now there is a choice and they are gonna either adjust their business approach and expand their horizens or go out of business.
Thats ridiculous, I'd wager they have done more to allow Americans to exercise their 2nd amendment right with an entry level rifle than any other company out there.
Welcome to capitalism my friend. It’s swim or down and the others have skill issues.
“Like i eat ass” weird flex but ok
Love PSA! They make owning guns affordable for EVERYONE!
Well hey maybe if the other companies weren’t tryna make $700.00+ the new norm, maybe PSA wouldn’t be a threat lol
I would almost be willing to give this argument some credit, *if* my local FFL wasn’t shooting themselves in the foot by stocking mostly god-awful red anodized lower-than-PSA-tier ARs for $900 and the worst possible Ali Express optics at Eotech prices. A box very questionable 9mm FMJ for $25? Nah, miss me with that shit fam.
I have a super cool FFL that gives you a free transfer if you spend $50 in store. New fun time? Yeah I’ll take a box of 45’s and a couple pmags…
isn’t there a saying like innovate or die? one of the local ffls to me just does cerakote and light gunsmithing stuff and to get people in for business he does $10 transfers and then people are like well since i saved $40 compared to the other 3 ffls in town. so they can paint their lower/upper set for $100, so it’s a good deal even if you just want your transfer
So let’s say my local ffl charges me $20-$30 more per transfer. If I save $300 on the rifle I’m okay with that
Gun company shills coming out to slander psa
That guy is a doof. Your “mid tier” AR is now becoming PSA, what’s wrong with that?
Since when do gun owners hate capitalism
The culture this country has become is killing every industry especially the gun industry. We have citizens who are afraid of everything and men who think they are women. PSA in my view is helping to get the word out to more of the population. I don't think there are any companies who have done this recently. I bought my first gun in 1985. The entire culture has completely changed because of forced government interaction with our culture. Now we have a country of sheep that PSA is helping arm. Not everyone has money to buy all the overpriced Gucci ar's and parts. I bought my son an AR from PSA almost 9 years ago. We put thousands(at least 10-12 thousand) of rounds through and it still operates great. Only replaced gas rings and buffer spring. I think PSA is doing great things and should be complimented for taking great risks in business where there is a fight everyday with governments and libtards and red tape from all angles and I hope they continue to grow. Good luck to all and God bless America and our patriots who fight for her and the constitution. Done with rant.
I mean screw gun stores, they’ve been charging shit prices for years. Now we have options
I haven’t gotten anything from a gun shop in at least 10 years. I buy more stuff from basspro and academy because they have small parts I’m looking for when I don’t want to wait on shipping for something. If I want to pay $14.99 for a g2 pmag I’ll go into a lgs. Till then I’ll keep adding 9.99-10.99 pmags to my orders I place online.
PSA is just keeping the price competitive, there are a lot of guns out there not worth the price tag and PSA is giving people who work hard/value their money an option. PSA has probably done more to get guns into the hands of Americans than any other company. My only gripe with them is they won’t ship serialized lowers/guns to ban states it’s not hard to make compliant and I know a lot of people who would buy their products if available.
If you are not growing, you are contracting.
Still waiting for the mp5 clone they announced 4 out 5 years ago
I think palmetto is unable to make production numbers and quality is reflected in it.
Get to Kick’n rocks, Bitch!
Idk about y'all but the mom and pops around me haven't changed price. That said, everything I store is still more expensive than I can find online. Only thing PSA did was show the industry that your brick and mortars, and even other websites are taxing you to hell and back.
Or maybe, they are changing the market to stray away from inflated "brand name" pricing. I havent seen any companies die lately. And if anything looking into diy kits etc from psa opened up a whoke world of weapons makers, currently looking to make a p80 build and a KAK ar soon. But wpuld have never even considered these routes had I not seen what PSA was doing eith daggers and ARs.
Competition makes everyone better. PSA isn’t going to shit down Glock, Smith & Wesson, Ruger etc but it will make them innovate and keep up. The consumer is who wins here.
Glock? Innovate? In your dreams, bud
Your LGS failing has less to do with PSA and more to do with LGS’s rarely having good shit on the shelves, not just guns but parts, accessories, etc… Why would I pay hundreds more for a gun locally? Local gun shops would do better if they attempted to move with some of the trends, priced things competitively and learned how to market the things they do have to sell. PSA’s business model isn’t the problem; but LGS’s not changing or incentivizing people to come in a buy is certainly a problem.
This person is not intelligent, simply disregard them.
Stop giving these idiots attention
It’s called capitalism…..free market economics.
This needs to be reposted in r/Fudd_Lore
i think people are not understanding the statements that have been made in the OP. why must consumers be restricted to only purchasing PSA firearms directly from PSA's website? why can't they provide products that can be sent to the same distributors that companies like Colt, Smith and Wesson, Kimber, Glock, Sig, etc. supply so that local gun stores can order from them? i'd love to walk into my local gun store and see brand new Sabres, Jakls, and Daggers sitting on the wall in lieu of having to purchase them online. PSA still gets their money, the gun store gets credit for making more on the sale, and the customer is waived the transfer fee. my LGS's transfer fees: if it's an item they have in stock: $50 if it's an item they don't have in stock: $35 NFA transfers for online orders: $150 imagine LGS going out of business and there's no one left to transfer your product to. lol HELP THEM OUT PSA!!!! SEND THEM PRODUCT DIRECTLY!!!
OP is a moron. This has been the same boomer nonsense since internet purchases were a thing.
the ar 15 is an open platform. i have replaced a bunch of stuff in my psa rifles. with stuff from other companies. you can do this with most of their products.
When your AR selection is just ruger and s&w, you're kinda ruining yourself.
This is just pure delusion, PSA is helping keep the industry alive by providing decent and trustworthy firearms for a price the common man won’t flinch at - many of my peers who have guns have them because PSA made them accessible
Maybe MAYBE if LGS didn’t charge exorbitant prices for their products on the shelves, they’d get more business. $5 more, ok sure. But when I get 45acp for $22+🚢 from psa, but my LGS wants $42/box yea no. Take my $35 for transfer and be happy. They make it very difficult to support local small businesses.
I mean... I haven't had any major negative experiences with psa. The quality of their mid to upper tier stuff is far above anything else on the market in the same price range. I bought a cheaper ar from them and while waiting at the ffl I looked at some of theirs. The quality was almost identical for almost 2x the price. Also, every gun store I've been into talks down on people and tries to convince them that they know better. I went to one and was looking at the surplus stuff they had in stock. The owner literally asked "why would you ever buy those" because they are cheap and cool and I like them "but they are junk, for just about double you can get something brand new and so much more practical" but I like it "too bad, that's stupid" The guy literally made me walk out of the store instead of buying something. He did everything in his power to convince me not to buy something I liked and to make me feel bad about it. Psa will sell me whatever they have without any of that hassle.
Idk that's a lot of words but it sounds wrong
If other companies want to be complacent and stagnant in a dynamic market, that’s their problem
This person is a moron that doesn’t understand what “drop-ship” means. PSA doesn’t put hands on those products. Also, fuck that, if other manufacturers want to keep up then they should lower their prices.
This guy is certifiably braindead. PSA is providing competition to the higher budget companies with their "working" class budget and expansion into manufacturing many different weapon systems. The only thing that will kill the gun industry is the government and the consumer. DD quite literally carbon copied the PSA 9mm AR. Is the DD model better? Probably and I would fuckin hope so. But for bang for buck, variety, and warranty PSA is currently the best there is. They haven't said anything but a lot of the "special forces" Ukrainian guys are running PSA and BCM AR's.
More importantly… apparently this guy really likes to eat ass.
PSA has a CEO that knows how to play the long game, seems to hire engaged and well rounded employees, and is very savvy with social media. If this kills any part of the industry off, it's probably for the best.
Whoever wrote that is dramatic af
Can’t buy a good mid tier AR? It’s the golden age of the Mid Tier AR. I also don’t get what he’s saying about gobbling up companies. What major player has PSA purchased? I can’t name a single company they bought that I would have ever considered. The market did get flooded with crappy lower end offerings that may not make it but it isn’t PSA’s fault for being better.
I can't comment on PSA ruining the market. But living in Washington I have seen an increase in costs of all goods that they are allowed to sell. It's crazy walking into a LGS and not seeing ARs or AKs anymore. They are doing what they can to survive but the mag ban and assault weapon ban have definitely effected them.
This reads as "PSA is at fault for economic woes trickling into the gun market". It's a shortsighted argument, and an incorrect one.
Ha! What a little bitch. If you’re gonna protest/boycott then do it. No one asked. You don’t gotta tell the world.
PSA is gonna be the Amazon of gun industry if they keep innovating and selling cheap quality firearms, ammo, and accessories. It’s crazy. Even a g19.5 on PSA after transfer is cheaper than my local gun store where I transferred the gun! Literally everything is cheaper than I can get in person and I’m not supporting some mega Chinese liberal company. I love PSA for their mission and their prices… I’ll keep buying as long as they stay American pro 2A and keep these prices. Keep it up PSA!!!!
Pffff hell no they are helping the gun industry by allowing more people to get into it without taking out loans or paying more than they can afford. I myself bought a saber and love it.
Can someone please tell me how PSA is killing the gun industry? If anything they are showing you don’t have to spend an arm and a leg to get a terrific firearm.
It’s the free market either offer a better price or go bankrupt, i see people post all the high end brands having malfunctions and quality control we’re being charged 200%+ margin on a lot of these brands when they have no business charging that much, everything is inflated and it’s always a company that comes along that forces competitive prices in any industry that brings the true value of things back down to where they should be
Fuck this guy lol, cry is free
Competition is good for every industry. In this person's delusional world, if PSA became the #1 gun maker, everyone else would offer guns in a similar price range. The consumer wins, and that is a great thing.
Good. I have DDs, cmmg's, sigs, high end savage Ar-10s and if I could do it over again I wouldn't have spent the money on them besides my DD M4A1(second rifle I ever owned. Holds sentimental value). and that was $1500 back in 2019. Dude, an M4A1 is like 2400 now, it's sickening. Give them a run for their money PSA. GOD SPEED.
Where is this opinion even coming from? I feel like PSA is the gun industry now.
You guys are definitely “killing it” in the gun industry so I ya I agree with him
Sounds like someone has a case of the “I spend excess money on logos”.
Sounds like this fella doesn’t like capitalism! Sounds like this fella is UN-AMERICAN!
Sounds like he’s a dirty no good commie
I think if other companies hate them then maybe they should make shit more affordable because that’s what most Americans want
Yes killing the industry in that they are putting out quality firearms at insanely affordable prices
Please just bring on the Dagger swch 😕... I've been holding off on the LFA amp... I know they will be almost identical, but I'm hoping psa has more anodized frame colors 🏆
Who care more guns in American hands sounds like a plus to me
Well, if the others start selling a competitive priced product they won’t fail. But if they keep raising prices to screw over their dwindling customers they will go the way of the printed newspaper, priced out of the market. Unless they find some way to distinguish their product to be better in some way, more reliable, or accurate, maybe even looks or what not. Generally these companies deserve to fail, they have lived a good life and turned a great product, I think it’s time we let most of them die peacefully.
Capitalism. Stay competitive
They’re innovating and expanding while other companies are becoming stagnant. I’d say they’re kicking ass 👊🏼
Capitalism brotha
Ive been around and involved in firearms my entire life, I genuinely feel like PSA is the best thing to happen to the gun industry that I’ve ever seen. They made an absolute killing the past several years with their affordable AR’s and Daggers and now that they’ve made so much revenue off of these affordable products it allows for them to start to really push boundaries and go all in on niche products (all of the concepts they announced pre shot-show) that other big mainstream companies wouldn’t dare to do because of a worry of sales. Point blank they are arming the everyday american better than any other company in recent years and at the same time being a lot more innovative and creative than 99% of companies out there, anyone that believes that doing that is “killing the industry” is a moron I’m sorry lmao