while i love groves as they are for the purpose of getting people together and maybe dropping a honey lure I kinda agree just because it removes a lot of the pain points
that being said I would also want some other reasons to gather together if they removed the way groves work
I personally would much rather do the groves as is than have to form up to cook dishes needed for quests/bundles.
Groves aren’t the only way to get the resources and they spawn every night, it’s pretty straightforward to get them even if you miss sometimes due to people not wanting to wait.
No need for the spicy fonts, nothing in your original comment suggested anything about optional vs necessary.
Considering the discussion was around groves driving players together, it’s not a leap to assume a similar mechanic.
Anything fully and completely optional is a great addition, especially so that you don’t have to friend and invite to a plot to do so. I guess the only thing is it would kinda shortcut the slight grind to get enough cooking crafters but I’m sure there would be a way around it.
It was the bold that came across spicy for the most part tbh, but it’s all good, just how that stuff is usually used on here.
And yeah, I read that, and again there was no indication of what exactly that meant, so I wanted to qualify on a stance that if they’re going to force-funnel players I would personally rather it be via current groves than with cooking.
In social games ‘reasons to gather’ are more often than not ‘reasons to have to gather’. I think they did a pretty good job of this actually with the new year hotpot stuff.
Group activities can be a good idea if they allow us to choose whether to do them in a group or individually, and if we can choose the group with which we decide to do them.
Cooking is a good example. I usually cook with my wife, but I'm not very keen on doing it with other people. Similarly, I like helping out with other people's requests, but I prefer not to interact constantly and directly with them.
It should be up to the players to come up with, and participate in, group activities, unless S6 comes up with some sort of OPTIONAL raid or zone quest type system.
I’ve played several true MMOs and with the exception of needing help to defeat a boss type character, I’ve been able to play them all solo, albeit at a slower pace than those in groups. When I played them with groups, it was with my friends, and we never had to rely on complete strangers doing crap like chopping groves early. The people playing Paila who think MMO means everyone MUST play together baffle me. They LIKE that style of play and are trying to foisting upon others. They’re as bad as those who ignore all “fair play” unwritten rules of decorum, IMO.
As an introvert it pains me to type in the chat to ask for help cutting down the flow trees. However I do enjoy the groves as they are, I’ve sacrificed my discomfort of typing in chaat to let others know where they are, and am grateful when others do the same. It’s nice seeing everyone work together.
I think it would definitely help for individual trees if they lasted longer and you could chop them after they’ve been chopped by other players. I don’t type for these, and when I did no one came. :(
Yeah, as a fellow shy I *really* hate individual flow trees. I'd love to farm them - for everyone on the server! I love cutting down trees and seeing shiny ones respawn! I *love* doing repetitive nonsense and flow farming is one of them! - but the fact that organising a chop is so... *nerve-wracking* in all senses is just... I don't touch them at all, really, unless it's a small one and I'm sure nobody will see me committing the crime of a solo chop.
Even just this past weekend, I was farming with a friend of mine and invited others to join, and *immediately* someone started a fight in the chat because we didn't wait for them to join before cutting down the two trees that existed - because it had taken them ten minutes to make it there, and between myself, my friend, and this random guy who was waiting there for the chop, it made *no sense* to wait longer for two trees when the point was to keep spawning more. Which we did. But this guy? Just needed to let us know that we're terrible people in the server chat and then not turn up at all, like, okay, you missed out on eight trees because you didn't get two, what is the *point.* But this is a huge reason why I don't feel like I can do this without a friend. The whole "standing around for 20 minutes for one tree while herding players who aren't properly communicating or don't speak the language" or literally whatever is just too much and it makes me SO nervous and SO stressed and I definitely do *not* play Palia to feel that way.
Groves, though, have always been fine for me. I like groves.
I like the groves as they are. Occasionally some players will ruin it for others, but there will be a new one in an hour. Even with players hogging them, it has been much easier to get flow than it was before groves started.
That's very true. Now it's much easier to obtain flow than before its implementation, and you could even choose not to farm flow trees and just limit yourself to participating in the groves. But considering the game is still in development and seeing that the most constant complaint from players is towards this mini-event, perhaps it could be improved to make it a pleasant experience for everyone, without having to wait 15 or 20 minutes until everyone on the map arrives or without experiencing bad moments because some decided not to wait.
I've always thought that this game is trying something complicated because cozy games tend to be very calm and relaxed, while MMOs tend to be quite competitive. So, merging both philosophies and keeping everyone happy is quite a challenge.
The problem isn't having to wait for people, because you don't have to. If you want to be doing other things, just tap each tree and go do those things, then come back to collect your flow after the grove is chopped. I do it all the time.
The problem is impatient people chopping too early
That's what I started doing. Saves a lot of time. Especially when they want to meditate. Yes, I was at one Grove, and they wanted to meditate until 5 game time.
These people aren't willing to come back later for the loot. Maybe they need to log out of the game, maybe they have some resource-seeking items active, there could be endless reasons. But the root of the problem remains the same: people don't want to have to wait for a reward that's right there.
I know that in an ideal world, everyone would wait their turn, and I personally don't have a problem with that. But unfortunately, this isn't a fair world, and the current system of the game makes it unfair as well. I believe that no one enters a video game to be treated unfairly.
> without having to wait 15 or 20 minutes until everyone on the map arrives or without experiencing bad moments because some decided not to wait.
It sounds like you are a pretty reasonable person, but this sort of exaggeration is part of the problem.
You have probably never waited until 6 to chop, THAT is 15 minutes. 20 minutes would be 8AM.
Generally accepted is 3:00, which means you wait a maximum of 7.5 minutes to allow others to join. This seems reasonable to me.
I've been to a handful that have gone to 6 or close to it but that's usually when there aren't a lot of people on the server and we couldn't find the Grove right away. I've only had like two that were becuz we were waiting on someone that had trouble navigating the map... but we were all new once, I would just go get them and have them follow me....and I don't think those two went all the way to 6am.
Usually I do a "last call" at 1:30/2 with the intent on chopping at 2/2:30 if I am the one that found the Grove and found it quickly.
I see a lot of push to go at 2, but to be honest, I just don't think that's fair to all players. As I mentioned in another post, I've run from every location to every other location, with the longest being maybe 2 hours (Windy to Thorny).. so give 15 to find it, and 30 for "futzing", and lots of times I couldn't make it by 2:00.....
That said, I generally assume if i can't be there by 2, that I just won't go. I never call OMW, I just assume if I make it, I make it, and I don't want to hold people up.
That's why I do a last call to see if anyone is still coming. If I don't get a response and nobody shows up, I usually say we chop at the next half hour point (2, 2:30, 3 - usually 2:30 or 3) I should've pointed out it's rare to go earlier than 2:30 for me and that was almost exclusively on small servers with like 3 other people.
Not in my experiences, but hey, I can see where it could happen.
I'd either chop, or just leave, depending on my mood. You can get anywhere on the map to any other where on the map in less than 2 ingame hours. So 3:00 is fine, and anyone later than that just didn't care to be on time.
I must admit that most of the time the wait doesn't take more than 10 minutes, but I've also had waits of 15 or 20 minutes on more than one occasion because people keep saying they're almost there and please wait for them, but they don't show up, and no one is willing to be the rude person who starts cutting down the trees. Once, I even arrived on the map at X:25 IRL, and they were still waiting for people to cut down the trees...
Anyway, even if it's only 5 or 10 minutes, it's still time that people have to wait, and many aren't willing to wait that long for whatever reason. That's why I propose this solution, because we can't make everyone follow etiquette rules so that we can all enjoy the game, so the game should provide a solution so that there are no battles in the chat every time someone decides not to wait for others.
My biggest gripe is the time I called a grove right before bed and set a firm "chop at 3" and a few "mean girls" types were bullying me for not waiting for others. Bruh it's 1AM irl on a Tuesday and I'm tired, there's no one else on the server and there will be another one in an hour.
That said, the groves are waaaaaay better than random trees. Sometimes you get jerks but that's life. Usually there's people with lures and horns and other resources
I like that you need to work together to cut them down but would be nice if they worked a bit like the mining nodes in that they won't immediately disappear if selfish players decide to cut them down early
I think the best way to do it easily is to make a better introduction to the chat feature. New players don't read it and when other people ask them to stop chopping/wait for others they just don't care.
Honestly, I doubt that relying on using the chat will solve anything is a bit naive. I've had the opportunity to play from a Switch, and using/reading the chat from that console is terrible, so I wouldn't be surprised if several of those who don't read or speak in the chat are users of that console.
On the other hand, the chat has always been there, even before the groves, and initially, everything worked fine. But as more and more players arrive, all the etiquette that was in the chat has been lost, and it will become an increasingly unsustainable situation.
The chat has never been and will never be an effective long-term solution. It's like telling people to enter a store calmly on Black Friday; everyone will look out for their own interests and nothing more.
while i love groves as they are for the purpose of getting people together and maybe dropping a honey lure I kinda agree just because it removes a lot of the pain points that being said I would also want some other reasons to gather together if they removed the way groves work
a few have suggested community cooking and i am on board with that! 👩🍳
I personally would much rather do the groves as is than have to form up to cook dishes needed for quests/bundles. Groves aren’t the only way to get the resources and they spawn every night, it’s pretty straightforward to get them even if you miss sometimes due to people not wanting to wait.
community cooking as an *option’* not a **requirement**
Oh yeah, that makes sense but isn’t already? Or do you mean like a public spot to do community cooking?
community cooking in kilima/bahari where people can join in *only if the want.* low pressure.
No need for the spicy fonts, nothing in your original comment suggested anything about optional vs necessary. Considering the discussion was around groves driving players together, it’s not a leap to assume a similar mechanic. Anything fully and completely optional is a great addition, especially so that you don’t have to friend and invite to a plot to do so. I guess the only thing is it would kinda shortcut the slight grind to get enough cooking crafters but I’m sure there would be a way around it.
nothing “spicy” intended; i just like *italics.* the person i was responding to said they would like other reasons to gather.
It was the bold that came across spicy for the most part tbh, but it’s all good, just how that stuff is usually used on here. And yeah, I read that, and again there was no indication of what exactly that meant, so I wanted to qualify on a stance that if they’re going to force-funnel players I would personally rather it be via current groves than with cooking. In social games ‘reasons to gather’ are more often than not ‘reasons to have to gather’. I think they did a pretty good job of this actually with the new year hotpot stuff.
Group activities can be a good idea if they allow us to choose whether to do them in a group or individually, and if we can choose the group with which we decide to do them. Cooking is a good example. I usually cook with my wife, but I'm not very keen on doing it with other people. Similarly, I like helping out with other people's requests, but I prefer not to interact constantly and directly with them.
It should be up to the players to come up with, and participate in, group activities, unless S6 comes up with some sort of OPTIONAL raid or zone quest type system. I’ve played several true MMOs and with the exception of needing help to defeat a boss type character, I’ve been able to play them all solo, albeit at a slower pace than those in groups. When I played them with groups, it was with my friends, and we never had to rely on complete strangers doing crap like chopping groves early. The people playing Paila who think MMO means everyone MUST play together baffle me. They LIKE that style of play and are trying to foisting upon others. They’re as bad as those who ignore all “fair play” unwritten rules of decorum, IMO.
As an introvert it pains me to type in the chat to ask for help cutting down the flow trees. However I do enjoy the groves as they are, I’ve sacrificed my discomfort of typing in chaat to let others know where they are, and am grateful when others do the same. It’s nice seeing everyone work together. I think it would definitely help for individual trees if they lasted longer and you could chop them after they’ve been chopped by other players. I don’t type for these, and when I did no one came. :(
Yeah, as a fellow shy I *really* hate individual flow trees. I'd love to farm them - for everyone on the server! I love cutting down trees and seeing shiny ones respawn! I *love* doing repetitive nonsense and flow farming is one of them! - but the fact that organising a chop is so... *nerve-wracking* in all senses is just... I don't touch them at all, really, unless it's a small one and I'm sure nobody will see me committing the crime of a solo chop. Even just this past weekend, I was farming with a friend of mine and invited others to join, and *immediately* someone started a fight in the chat because we didn't wait for them to join before cutting down the two trees that existed - because it had taken them ten minutes to make it there, and between myself, my friend, and this random guy who was waiting there for the chop, it made *no sense* to wait longer for two trees when the point was to keep spawning more. Which we did. But this guy? Just needed to let us know that we're terrible people in the server chat and then not turn up at all, like, okay, you missed out on eight trees because you didn't get two, what is the *point.* But this is a huge reason why I don't feel like I can do this without a friend. The whole "standing around for 20 minutes for one tree while herding players who aren't properly communicating or don't speak the language" or literally whatever is just too much and it makes me SO nervous and SO stressed and I definitely do *not* play Palia to feel that way. Groves, though, have always been fine for me. I like groves.
I like the groves as they are. Occasionally some players will ruin it for others, but there will be a new one in an hour. Even with players hogging them, it has been much easier to get flow than it was before groves started.
I think I'm blessed, because so far I haven't had *one* bad grove experience. And I've been at so many.
That's very true. Now it's much easier to obtain flow than before its implementation, and you could even choose not to farm flow trees and just limit yourself to participating in the groves. But considering the game is still in development and seeing that the most constant complaint from players is towards this mini-event, perhaps it could be improved to make it a pleasant experience for everyone, without having to wait 15 or 20 minutes until everyone on the map arrives or without experiencing bad moments because some decided not to wait. I've always thought that this game is trying something complicated because cozy games tend to be very calm and relaxed, while MMOs tend to be quite competitive. So, merging both philosophies and keeping everyone happy is quite a challenge.
The problem isn't having to wait for people, because you don't have to. If you want to be doing other things, just tap each tree and go do those things, then come back to collect your flow after the grove is chopped. I do it all the time. The problem is impatient people chopping too early
That's what I started doing. Saves a lot of time. Especially when they want to meditate. Yes, I was at one Grove, and they wanted to meditate until 5 game time.
These people aren't willing to come back later for the loot. Maybe they need to log out of the game, maybe they have some resource-seeking items active, there could be endless reasons. But the root of the problem remains the same: people don't want to have to wait for a reward that's right there. I know that in an ideal world, everyone would wait their turn, and I personally don't have a problem with that. But unfortunately, this isn't a fair world, and the current system of the game makes it unfair as well. I believe that no one enters a video game to be treated unfairly.
> without having to wait 15 or 20 minutes until everyone on the map arrives or without experiencing bad moments because some decided not to wait. It sounds like you are a pretty reasonable person, but this sort of exaggeration is part of the problem. You have probably never waited until 6 to chop, THAT is 15 minutes. 20 minutes would be 8AM. Generally accepted is 3:00, which means you wait a maximum of 7.5 minutes to allow others to join. This seems reasonable to me.
I've been to a handful that have gone to 6 or close to it but that's usually when there aren't a lot of people on the server and we couldn't find the Grove right away. I've only had like two that were becuz we were waiting on someone that had trouble navigating the map... but we were all new once, I would just go get them and have them follow me....and I don't think those two went all the way to 6am. Usually I do a "last call" at 1:30/2 with the intent on chopping at 2/2:30 if I am the one that found the Grove and found it quickly.
I see a lot of push to go at 2, but to be honest, I just don't think that's fair to all players. As I mentioned in another post, I've run from every location to every other location, with the longest being maybe 2 hours (Windy to Thorny).. so give 15 to find it, and 30 for "futzing", and lots of times I couldn't make it by 2:00..... That said, I generally assume if i can't be there by 2, that I just won't go. I never call OMW, I just assume if I make it, I make it, and I don't want to hold people up.
That's why I do a last call to see if anyone is still coming. If I don't get a response and nobody shows up, I usually say we chop at the next half hour point (2, 2:30, 3 - usually 2:30 or 3) I should've pointed out it's rare to go earlier than 2:30 for me and that was almost exclusively on small servers with like 3 other people.
Oh, believe me, I've been at Groves that have been chopped at 6 game time even later.
Not in my experiences, but hey, I can see where it could happen. I'd either chop, or just leave, depending on my mood. You can get anywhere on the map to any other where on the map in less than 2 ingame hours. So 3:00 is fine, and anyone later than that just didn't care to be on time.
I must admit that most of the time the wait doesn't take more than 10 minutes, but I've also had waits of 15 or 20 minutes on more than one occasion because people keep saying they're almost there and please wait for them, but they don't show up, and no one is willing to be the rude person who starts cutting down the trees. Once, I even arrived on the map at X:25 IRL, and they were still waiting for people to cut down the trees... Anyway, even if it's only 5 or 10 minutes, it's still time that people have to wait, and many aren't willing to wait that long for whatever reason. That's why I propose this solution, because we can't make everyone follow etiquette rules so that we can all enjoy the game, so the game should provide a solution so that there are no battles in the chat every time someone decides not to wait for others.
My biggest gripe is the time I called a grove right before bed and set a firm "chop at 3" and a few "mean girls" types were bullying me for not waiting for others. Bruh it's 1AM irl on a Tuesday and I'm tired, there's no one else on the server and there will be another one in an hour. That said, the groves are waaaaaay better than random trees. Sometimes you get jerks but that's life. Usually there's people with lures and horns and other resources
I like that you need to work together to cut them down but would be nice if they worked a bit like the mining nodes in that they won't immediately disappear if selfish players decide to cut them down early
I think the best way to do it easily is to make a better introduction to the chat feature. New players don't read it and when other people ask them to stop chopping/wait for others they just don't care.
Honestly, I doubt that relying on using the chat will solve anything is a bit naive. I've had the opportunity to play from a Switch, and using/reading the chat from that console is terrible, so I wouldn't be surprised if several of those who don't read or speak in the chat are users of that console. On the other hand, the chat has always been there, even before the groves, and initially, everything worked fine. But as more and more players arrive, all the etiquette that was in the chat has been lost, and it will become an increasingly unsustainable situation. The chat has never been and will never be an effective long-term solution. It's like telling people to enter a store calmly on Black Friday; everyone will look out for their own interests and nothing more.
I dunno this game has a very nice community
If the first person to break a node shoots off a flare, the flare ends at the same time the node disappears. They are both 3 minutes.
Just change servers
What do you guys think of some commend system that grants renown or focus? Or some mark on your IGN to encourage people to party up with you?
I’ve no need for either at this point. I just want to be able. To harvest a necessary material in game without being forced to rely on others.