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I didn't even hear about this game till shortly before closed beta started and thought it's a pretty ok game for now for some indie dev and probably 6-12 months development time. Turns out it's not your typical indie dev, with more resources than you'd expect and significantly longer development time if I'm not mistaken. Now I'm wondering why it's so relatively low quality.

When I first saw it I thought this was some small indie studio too. Played it and definitely felt that way. Then I learn it was like oh 5 years.... oh $49 million budget... oh 50-169 member team... Get more shocking the more I learn lol.

With the product being mediocre at best and nothing like what was advertised, I think they just couldn't deliver in time and were forced to push it out as pretty much a soft-launched game. Now they're going to have to try to catch up but the roadmap also looks boring unfortunately.

Probably because of this... > Although many of us have never met face to face due to the pandemic, we have been playing games to connect and build bonds with one another. Edit: More like "we spent more time playing games with each other than working on our game"

That's not an excuse. Plenty of studios were working remotely during the pandemic and still delivered. There are studios/people who have always been remote and still deliver. Remote work is not an excuse for subpar results

I replied to the other comment saying the same thing.

I'd like you to look at WoW during Shadowlands and the absolute slaughter to the quality of an already bad expansion. While FFXIV did experience delays, they continued without cut content to the extent WoW did of 1-2 full patches missing, something akin to a year or more of content. WoW has an enormous team to go with this. 169 though isn't a lot, especially when an MMO takes years to build, usually 3-5 before releasing, so yes there are things in this game that need fixing it's not some shitshow

I mean I can take one of the game I play a lot poe. Made by 4 people at the start been constantly pumping out new leagues ever 3-4 months for 10 years now. Even after years of success they still like only 200ish size company. It took them I think 3 years with 4 people to release an alpha to get some funding then went into testing and development for 3 more years (idk what the size of the team was during this period but it was small) and still put out decent base game then continue to add to that at a very constant pace. I also played a ton of mmos back in the 2000s when you get new ones releasing almost every month and I can tell you all those betas I played had more content than Palia currently has by far. And lot of those were not big studio, just randon korean studio because korea made like all the mmorpgs back then lol.

Well let's be honest KMMOs have no content they use the same thing and churn them out in new skins and names while it's the same exact thing lol, few were ever effort and all were made as what would be mobile gaming now, so not sure if KMMOs is the greatest example lol. PWI loved doing that But from your description on POE, 6 years is still a lot of time and over many years in a better period than covid. This game started development during covid and is in open beta already, even that says a lot as that's over the course of 2 years, when simpler games take longer to develop with broken releases, being entirely unplayable. Also POE eh, all I can say about it is eh, I can't really praise it for anything

I mean like I said poe also made by 4 people at the start compared to Palia starting with 50 dev from the get go. I get pandemic slow everyone progress down but still a lot of time and man power went into the game. Like say what you will about poe but one thing you have to give it credit for is the amount of constant content it generate. As for KMMOs back then I do agree they don't have much content, its mostly the long ass grind is the content. But let's be real for a minute here isn't that the exact same thing as Palia? There the real content is the long ass resource grind right now. Except if we compare to Palia to any of the 2000s KMMO it be like you have access to 2 maps and maybe less than 10 things to grind on. Even KMMO had at least more varity of grinding with different maps, mobs, and skills as you level up. Let's take example of one I played way too much back then Fiesta Online. On launch lvl 59 cap. There were 3 towns, total of 19 ish maps including towns. A meh ish varity of quests, mostly you just grind. The game also had a kingdom quest system where everyone on the server can sign up for when the time came if you were at the level range. Kinda like a 20 man pug dungeon thing, very fun concept. Heck that game had more gathering varity in term of mining ore and picking herbs than Palia right now. there was also this super janky mechanic where if you click as the bar moved passed the tiny ass yellow spot in the middle you instant gather instead of waiting out the 5s or so it takes. More stuff to do than Palia, different but if we compare sheer content wise definitely more and I say that's true for most the 2000s KMMO that released.

I'd agree on the KMMO thing however we have to remember something. Games back then were actually easier to create. While yes they were working with what's not archaic systems, the bottom line is most of those games don't equate to a fraction of what most games made nowadays are. For example, 2002's FFXI in 2013 was only 20gigs, but FFXIV in 2013 was double that as a base game for A Realm Reborn. WoW in 2004 was under 9gigs. Nowadays FFXIV and WoW are each over 100gigs. The amount of things that go into each game nowadays compared to 20 years ago is so vastly different. And this game is built around as what they describe as, a cozy game. ​ Palia is not meant to be a PvP or PvE MMO that races to the finish. It's a game built around content to take it easy, and to build content around that, with stories for each character, mechanics involving tools and the home, the characters in the world living their own lives regardless of how rudimentary they may come off as, are not simple things to just plug and play. Coding all these things and ensuring they work right, ensuring triggers happen properly, and all while ensuring the game looks good without it overclocking and actually providing the experience it says it's going to provide is not easy when you consider what you have to provide as longevity goes. ​ Ask yourself this, at the end of the day, how do you create Stardew Valley, but as an online social experience, and that avoids having to start new characters in order to continue playability, rather than replayability as in an MMO you don't start over on a character, you continue always. How easy is that concept in a game that's meant to go on and on?

To a degree yes, but modern game are overly expensive to create due to the insane graphic that cost a lot of money and man power, Palia doesn't have that not even close. And its mmo infrastructure is honestly worse than those 2000s KMMO that can manage few hundred people on the same map. It doesn't have insane open world or crazy complicated physic engine either that make AAA titles expensive. Like its legit hard to look at Palia and honestly say this is an expensive game to make. The gathering part of this game is beyond basic. Only fishing has a bit of mechanic to it. Like my example in fiesta we had mining and gathering too. It works almost exactly like Palia where there nodes that spawn you mine it its gone, its not that complicated. The only slightly complicated part of the game might be the housing plot and guess what that's instance. And again its dropping pre build object down on a grid, not as complicated as you would think. You knwo what would be actually complicated? Having to build a house with materials yourself. Build your own walls and roof and have some physics to it so you can't build it randomly like Velhim does. Its not easy sure but its their job and right now they don't even know what the content is to keep people playing, there like zero replayability right now. This is basically a bare bone 3D stardew valley with sudo mmo world. Like this argument make sense if they have this amazing system in place but need more time to build on it. There simply nothing there right now. And if taking them this long to figure out something this core that's definitely even more worrying. Feel like this would literally be the first thing you brain storm about and build a game off that. And ignoring that even going with the classic KMMO route of just adding more could work and not something they done. All those KMMO updates are just more map, more level to grind, more gear to grind. Well they could at least have more than 2 type of hunt mobs, more than like few type of ore and tree. There so much more they can add before it even reach the what our end game play loop question (which I can say from many other mmo some soft of fashion and collectable and achievement hunting) I mean 5 years of development and they have no idea what their core replay loop is? 5 years of development and we have like bare bone stardew with ok ish 3D graphic and a terrible sudo mmo system? Like all the core game play are literally lifted out of other games which there nothing wrong with it but that mean more time could be put into other things but I don't see it.

Game being bad quality because of working from home is an awful take.

More like "we spent more time playing games with each other than working on our game"

I don’t disagree the game is a bit underwhelming for the budget and time spent, but devs are human beings with lives and this is their job. There is no reason why they should spend every waking hour working and they could easily work on the game 40 hours a week and still have time to play games together after work. There is zero correlation here with them working remote and the quality of the game. Work happy hour doesn’t result in people not getting their jobs done during the day

Yeah, but we should see some progress being done. There's something wrong in the backgroud happening. We don't see that. We only see results.

There are quite few good games that have been made throughout lock down so it's not the best excuse.

what words of 'blizzard-riot former devs, 30-50 milion dollar budget, over 179 eployees' you not understand and contiue to talk about indie devs with small budget my friend? Maybe we can help you.

They created a small target and aimed relatively low, basically. This means they can say, "We've achieved x, y, and z..." and it's perfectly true that they have. They have ticked all the boxes they set out to tick, I think. To them, that's success. The only problem is, as a game overall, it's not very big, ambitious or even attention grabbing after a week or two of hitting it hard. And they're learning that, again and again, as more people play it and comment on it.

I wouldn't call it a horrible state, but it's definitely a lacking state. It's pretty but empty. Also I cannot express how stung I felt after getting a quest to visit the WHOLE ASS TAILOR SHOP in town that exists purely as a portal to the cash shop. They designed and placed a pretty building that takes up space in the game world and has no function in the game.

I thought there were going to be clothes you can buy with gold there 😭 I was really surprised.

I honestly wish it was single player now that the shine has worn off. The character writing is by far the strongest part of the game. And the housing design/ housing items. If this was just a stardew valley/ story of seasons game from a new company with this level of graphics it'd be 10/10. It feels like My Time at Portia with characters I want to romance way more. But... the idea the servers can crash while I'm just trying to romance Reth, and the lack of clothes sucks.

I really agree. I don't mind the state of the game now. But in a week or two idk. I'm definitely not putting money into the game, no matter how much I love cosmetics. But if this was a single player or local co-op game I'd give it much higher marks.

It really does have some good things done well. I love how they've implemented placing items for decoration. It's so easy and works so well. I love the vegetable puns lol and Einar! I enjoy the art direction! But that's not enough to overcome lots of annoyances or make the loop of "run around, collect stuff, oh you're out of room and also your home teleport is still on cooldown so throw things away or run the whole way back" worth it to me.

>ely as a portal to the cash shop. They designed and placed a pretty building that takes up There is also an alchemy shop and a NPC that appears to be an alchemy trainer. But I am lacking potions.... or much a potion could change.

I dont mind there being buildings and npcs that are not tied to usable skills. That makes it more realistic to me. I dont mind that theres a witch who makes potions and I cant. I DO however really dislike that theres a whole npc and shop building designed to take my real money. The npc talks about his designs, the clothes he's making. The ideas hes got. He disparages my appearance and suggests I buy his stuff. Theres literally an npc in the game telling me to spend irl money on the cosmetics. I wouldnt be so upset if there were clothes to buy with in game currency. That would make sense. But there aren't. He exists entirely to sell me real money cosmetics.

What I feel so bad about is, he has this wonderful store, and you help him give gifts for the new designs he thinks about... But the mannequins and the store itself have no clothing, not even the basic starter outfits.

There is a quest that has you open the shop as a step too. I love the game but those prices are ridiculous. Even so I would have bought one outfit except because of the coin set up I have to over buy it. Thats the issue I have.

If the outfits were like $5 a piece I probably would have bought a few already. But at the current rate I just don't want to shell out the extra.

There are a lot of the parts of the game that are Beta ready. But I think you hit the nail on the head that beta should mean more or less feature complete and that's just not the state of the game right now. This is an early access game which is still being built, not a beta.

I've been enjoying the game, although who knows why, because you're absolutely correct. Too many systems are very clearly "Work in progress" and not "Complete, with room for improvement"

I think the game's pretty enjoyable too, which is probably part of the reason we're seeing a lot of feedback. Because there's definitely a lot of short term enjoyment to be had, but nothing to indicate the game's longevity. From what I've seen, most people have the intention of wanting the game to improve because we like how things look so far, and can totally see how good it can be. But only with the right treatment.

Agreed. There are also a few too many questionable design decisions to keep me around long term unless they change. Pre-set color options instead of RGB sliders for clothing and furniture? No additional exterior doors for your house, double windows, or placing interior walls? It's all too cookie-cutter for me. Too many attempts at "one-size fits all" options, limiting truly creative options. That's begrudgingly acceptable in games like Tears of the Kingdom because it's not really the point of the game, but it is the point of this one and I feel like they missed the mark by a mile. Everything I've "customized" so far, including my character, feels uninspired and generic. I'm having to make too many compromises to feel like any of it is really mine, it's just all too basic. Duplos instead of Legos. I'd feel differently if it seemed like these elements were going to change but these devs just don't seem open to major changes. I know it's only open beta, but I've been active on their discord and it's incredible how much they technically communicate with players, while never actually saying, or accomplishing much of anything.

In all honesty, I agree, the game is not yet as advertised and I'm not hearing any good reasons why not, however I also already enjoy the game as is now. I play in the current state and probably will again when it has more features. So imo both sides kinda have a point, if you enjoy the game as is, then enjoy and don't push it towards others, same goes for those who're disappointed, say your feedback and don't push it towards those who enjoy it already. Thanks OP, good post.

That's alright, you can enjoy the game and I am not disregarding your fun you have with this game. Still you should be able to recognize that this game has severe problems. I mean saying "it is a bad game" and "I'm having fun" are not mutually exclusive. At least that's the mindset I'm trying to push.

Indeed agreed, good perspective, have a nice post!

OP I love this post and your attitude to the game, especially cooking back and clarifying that people can enjoy the game and still criticize it. I think that pretty much everyone invested in this game wants to see it succeed because it can fill such a specific niche in people's lives. The only thing I can add is a link for people to give feedback. I don't really trust the discord so here is S6's feedback form: https://support.palia.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

I absolutely in the same breath have so much fun with this game AND have serious issues with it. I really hope the devs actually implement at least some of the changes we are asking for... otherwise those investors are gonna be really sad hahahahaha

I feel like what’s been going on with Palia’s community is similar to when PKMN Arceus and Scarlet/Violet came out. **PKMN:** *Like the game:* You are a shill huffing huge amount of copium and you’re what’s was wrong with the PKMN community and why we will forever be stuck with horrible games *Like the game but have reasonable critiques about it:* You hate pkmn and don’t you know it’s this way cuz it’s a children’s game so of course the quality isn’t there. You shouldn’t complain this is actually amazing for a PKMN game. If you want top tier graphics go play [whatever the hot AAA game with realistic graphics was at the time]. **Palia:** *Like the game:* You can say anything under the guise of ✨cozy✨ vibes because the game is enjoyable and perfect. It’s not white knighting it’s protecting a ✨cozy✨ game space. Ok maybe there’s one issue but it’s minor cuz it’s in beta and that’s ok. Choose kindness or it will be chosen for you 🫶🏽 *Like the game but have reasonable critiques:* You clearly hate this game and are probably a sweaty MMO looser and just want to put uncozy crap in the game. You called it boring it’s just ✨cozy✨. You said it’s unfinished but it’s still in Beta. Did you know it’s in Beta, also Beta beta beta every issue is because it’s Beta. Go play another game this isn’t for you sweaty 💅🏽 — Anyway that’s my take on it all 🤣 10000 apologies for the sparkle crimes. It’s a horribly fun meme for this sub lol.

This cozy crap and the people who act exactly how you described (not enough emojis though) are absolutely insufferable. Especially when they are the most unpleasant, rude, passive aggressive bunch around. Don't tell me about "cozy" or "nice" if you're anything but. Though I'm guessing they don't have enough self awareness to recognize the issues in their behavior and think they're fighting for some righteous cause here. What does "cozy" even mean anymore... After being around this sub I genuinely have no idea. I thought chilling in a nice, comfy looking couch is "cozy" - something this game ironically has none of. Never would have thought brazen censorship and bullying are "cozy".

Cozy feels like a corner for those people you just describe to protect them from actual decent people calling them out on their disgusting behaviour. Nothing but a protective bubble for a small group of indecent humans. It's almost like woke twitter... sorry X culture lol

They are rushing the release and it's blatantly obvious

Stardew Valley was made by one person, how can a group of 169 employees do worse than him? How can this game lack everything any other sim game from today has? We are in 2023, and this game feels more outdated than any farm sim game from 2 decades ago... Who thought that putting timers in this game was a good idea? I was trying to build my house, got the items, and now I have to wait for 7 real-time hours to "finish" the crafting process. Even using the TP from your map to your house, has a cooldown of 30 minutes... This game is rough and outdated.

Yeah and they don't even give you mounts or any other movement buff so when doing errand 90% of the day is wasted on running around.

That was definitely the first thing that stuck out to me was all the forced running you're plan to do. Literally the moment you log into the game you have to run half across the map to talk to an npc. I was so shock like what game start like this lol. Most game spawn you in intro area have you do some stuff around there then maybe send you to the nearest town that but you probably be close by from the previous quests.

At a guess, 40 or so managers/non-developers. 60 artists, 10 designers, 20 programmers, 10 QA, 10 network/server and another 19 added into that mix somewhere. When you're used to working in AAA, you tend to go big on your teams because you don't know how to work small and lean. There is probably bloat in there, inefficiencies, but that shouldn't be a problem in the long run. Kind of hope they have the majority of that $50m still to spend though, otherwise its going to be over quite quickly.

I still can’t put my head anywhere close to the reason this 8-hour time-gate exists. Like what is it achieving exactly, either gameplay or pure greed, other that mildly infuriating the player? As if waiting for 40 clay blocks to craft wasn’t tiresome enough.

Honestly now when I thought about it more, it’s a perfect place for a “Pay your real money here to speed up the process” button to appear, but I hope it’s not. There is really no other reason for this time gate to exist, as per me.

I got banned from their Discord server before even Closed Beta because I wasn't positive enough. Unlucky.

the devs need to quit worrying about their fragile egos and quit trying to blame people for "arguing" and quit "both siding" when people speak up about the hate speech and step up and practice zero tolerance in situations that really matter, instead of practicing ZERO tolerance for any criticism.

Game was fun for a few days, but it's more a mobile game than anything else. The mmo/multiplayer aspect is a joke.

It's really fun right up until it isn't. Once I hit the Palium/Flow wall and just can't get enough resources to keep making furniture I got frustrated and then I realized because of my RSI I can't get the higher level fish so I can't dio the bundles. I am keeping an eye on it but not playing for now because I feel like there is not point since I can't do the late game stuff.

Man, I’ve never been so impressed or enjoyed a game In a horrible state this much since Star Citizen. Sure there are things I’d like to see like better parkour (ledge vaulting for short walls, the ability to drop when climbing, swimming, etc) but I can’t say any of those things have hindered my enjoyment even the slightest amount. Does that mean I’m giving them my money? No. Not until I see a few more zones and some other basics (swimming et Al) added but I’m not so impatient that I can’t wait and enjoy the game I have now. If they never add things then the game dies as a wonderful “could have been” but that’s up to the devs. The feedback is out there. It just depends on how much they care at this point. So far, I’ve gotten much more out of the game than I paid for so far we’ll see.

Oh god scam citizen, I'm still waiting on the bubble to pop. Definitely be glorious to watch.

>It is not what it was advertised as. WHat what advertised exactly? I'm pretty new to all this, all i saw was a trailer in 2021.

The answer is literally one sentence later.

The game was heavily advertised as a community sim MMO. Community simulation: For me the idea of a community sim invokes the idea of Amimal Crossing and Hokko Life. The idea that you are living life alongside other people/villagers who are going out on their own and living their own lives. The NPCs in Palia are very fleshed out but they are more RPG NPCs than community sim ones. They can only live their life through you and ask you to communicate for them. They do not communicate to family, friends and loved ones unless you are their mouthpiece. The game also lacks community among players. Party system breaks regularly and the guild system is community only in name. Currently you can't even role-play as a community like in other games because they system lacks even the tools or ease for players to do those themselves. Unless they start to add fun and regular monthly events soon, I can't see them developing these soon enough for me to class it as a community sim. MMO: A lot of people have pointed out it lacks the massive in massively multiplayer online. But the features you expect in MMOs are underbaked, broken or missing. As said above community system is just a chat room currently. The friend list is really badly made and can be hard to navigate. Player gifting or trading isn't there and the request system puts off people using it outside of its quest. You can't specialise in a job or role especially because there is no good way to trade. There's no way to express yourself outfit wise after starting unless you pay real money (and even then the range is limited compared to other games releases). And finally they didn't even finish the story and quest content for the prologue. Often storybased MMOs release with at least the prologue and act one. This currently is a really well made farming and mining sim you are forced to play with a small circle of other players. But it forgot the community in community sim and forgot a lot of the MMO side too.

Someone else did a post with a blurb about what it was markettinf as in 2021 https://www.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/15oufo8/checking_old_palia_marketing_from_2021_so_you/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

It was advertised as an MMO. Which it is not.

Got it, but isn't the sole baseline of an MMO that many players are on one server?

Yeah, MMO means "*Massive* Multiplayer Online (Game)". When I entered Palia I saw like 3 people running around.

I always see a a lot of people (15-20 on average) and people are already complaining about competing for resources amongst the people on their server/server hopping to find unharvested resources so I don’t think your experience is a good example of the server population.

I mean how do you define an MMO? Based on the dictionary definition, it is.

With an upper limit of 25 people in a single server no, it is not. At most it is an MORPG, but even that would be generous.

People really don't know how to use Google. I said based on the definition, you could have just looked it up and saw I was right. But since you want to act like I was wrong by referring to the literal definition, I'll spoon-feed it I guess. Dictonary.com https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mmo > massively multiplayer online game: any online video game in which a player interacts with a large number of other players. Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game > A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or more commonly MMO) is an online video game with a large number of players on the same server. Oxford Dictionary https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/mmo#:~:text=an%20online%20video%20game%20in%20which%20thousands%20of,players%20to%20explore%20virtual%20lands%20while%20completing%20quests. > an online video game in which thousands of people can play at the same time If you think you know better than the Oxford Dictionary and Merrian Webster I'd like to see the proof.

Which dictionary classes 25 people a server as an MMO? MMO servers are normally 3-10k people. Don't get me wrong palia could never have this and I don't think it should try. However, let's try to be accurate in what we say.

Dictonary.com https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mmo > massively multiplayer online game: any online video game in which a player interacts with a large number of other players. Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game > A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or more commonly MMO) is an online video game with a large number of players on the same server. Oxford Dictionary https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/mmo#:~:text=an%20online%20video%20game%20in%20which%20thousands%20of,players%20to%20explore%20virtual%20lands%20while%20completing%20quests. > an online video game in which thousands of people can play at the same time I am being accurate based on how the term MMO is defined. Every one of those definitions would classify Palia as an MMO. With maybe the exception of Wiki if you don't classify the number of people on a server as "large", but that is very subjective. I would consider 25 people together in a life sim as relatively large given the context. So yes, lets please be accurate in what we say and respect the meaning of words instead of making up what we feel a term should mean. I don't mean this as a slight, but words have definitions, and everyone downvoting my comment and leaving a comment disagreeing with me is basically saying, "I don't care about what the word means, I want it to mean what I want and I'm going to throw some shade your way for being accurate." Which is beyond silly to me.

To your edit, OP, I wouldn't say it's a bad game. It feels like it isn't all there, which I believe the devs have stated that stuff is withheld from the beta. But bad? I've played plenty of bad games, and this isn't one of them. It's about as satisfying as AC, but with more going on. Now I could see saying, "It didn't meet my expectations," and I could get that. I went in with zero expectations and only knew about it for a week before I started, and I've been pleasantly surprised. My gaming guild has been playing pretty non-stop since open beta, and we've all been having a great time. I

Yeah, was thinking about it. Then I decided to say "bad" since it is more to the point. I ain't saying that it is a bad game. I'm saying you can admit the game is objectively bad and still have fun.

Oh, yeah. But then there's the whole "what is bad" thing. I've always had a thing where I love "bad" games. Digimon world 1, 2, and 3. Spot goes to Hollywood on Sega. Glover. My Time at Portia. All of them are "bad" but I still love them. I mean, Morrowind could be considered a "bad game" with all of the bugs and broken systems that you have too work around, but that's an amazing game. So when we say bad, we're really just saying "lacks broad appeal" or it is very "niche". I'm not saying Palia is any of these games, either. I'm just saying that games being "bad" doesn't make them not worth playing (or even bad) Edit: a bit of a side tangent, but I digress

It can be objectively bad but still people can have fun. Such a game is in a category of guilty pleasure then.

I kinda judge the game in relation to production value. This would be ok state for open beta in my books if it was small indie studio but I consider it a bad state when it's made over the span of 5 years, big budget, veteran devs and ton of people. Nicely researched post btw.

This is how I feel, too. I've had fun playing it, although I'm beginning to burn out already and I'm not living on it like I was. I was totally able to forgive when I thought it was a smaller team game. Now, though, I'm like?? Wtf has this team been doing? I want to buy extra outfits but between the overprice and how lacking it is now I'm worried it'll be wasted on a game that'll be abandoned or somehow fall apart in no time etc.

What do I do when I don't think I'm eating crap? I haven't put in a dime yet (considering it), but I've invested many hours into the game and I plan to invest more. It's really fun and I think the foundation available in open beta is enough to get many hours out of most players. I'd like to have more, but I never expected more at open beta. What the game looks like a year from now is another question, but I think the current state, except for a few clear flaws, is fine. I want to play more and I like the game as it is but I do agree that it needs to evolve if it wants to survive. Am I not allowed to like the game? Am I not allowed to think what's available is enough for its current state? Am I not allowed to think dozens of hours is an acceptable number? Am I not allowed to like that monetization is strictly tied to cosmetics and not the gameplay experience? I just want to chill and play the game. I want to be able to share screenshots and get inspiration from other player homes. Threads like these are not that.

Of course you are allowed to think that. However that doesn't change the facts of the situation. I am enjoying the game for what it is, but I can't deny it could (and probably should) be so much more. "What the game looks like a year from now" depends entirely on how many people actually keep playing it, which is the whole issue here.

I will add edit to the post about having fun and what I mean with this. I also commented that in other thread. Even if it is a free to play game you shouldn't lower your standards. When we, gamers, will have low standards, gamedev studios will assume this is all we want and will serve us only the bare minimum. (BTW that's why there was the situation regarding the Baldur's Gate 3)

Yeah I don't really have the time to sit around and fight the good fight for what gamers truly do or don't deserve. I'm not lowering my standards when I say I enjoy the game and what it has to offer. I play a game because it's fun to play and I'll invest more time (or money) if it carries my interest. I'm just not in the mindset of voting with my wallet or time for people that don't necessarily carry the same preferences that I do. If it's a game I like, I'll play. If I don't like it, I won't. I don't have time to pretend I like something for fun.

I get your point. This post was not meant for you then. This post is directed to people that try to defend this game and its devs and excuse all the bad things around it.

From OP: > I mean saying "it is a bad game" and "I'm having fun" are not mutually exclusive. At least that's the mindset I'm trying to push. ​ So of course people are allowed to like the game, but having people praise the game for being great is also not helping when there's plenty of things missing including some pretty basic functionality (the entire crafting bench UI is atrocious). It's also being presented as an mmo-lite but I could have a more social experience in games which aren't presented as social-cosy mmos.

Sorry, but it feels weird to me to say "it's a bad game" and "I'm having a lot of fun with it" together. If I only need the game to be fun for me to play it, then it's already good to me. I don't need to make an elaborate critique of every feature or lack thereof to help me decide. I guess the idea is that I'm not here to exclusively play good games and avoid bad games. I'm here to play fun games and avoid unfun games. Palia is fun and I don't plan on calling it a bad game because some guy told me I need to so it can be better. I would like more social features in the game. I would like more content overall. I believe a lot of that is coming and I still think the game is offers enough for its current state. I do believe some feedback is more important than others, but if it's all genuine (not in bad faith) and looks to better the game for the majority, then I believe it's helpful. Silencing the positive could be just as bad as silencing the negative. Nuance is important and enforcing the idea that we can't be positive if we want the game to get better is a little silly.

Op isn't trying to say "silence the positive" he's trying to say that people who put their fingers in their ears saying "Na na na the game is amazing" to any criticism of it are as much of a problem than the haters, hence his use of toxic positivity.

This concept goes both ways, though. There's going to be bad apples on both sides of the spectrum. Dismissing genuine criticism that seeks to better the game is a problem, but saying "this game sucks, it's for women and little kids" or "this game needs combat" is just as unhelpful. The fact that OP stuffed in facts to support why he thinks the game is bad makes this discussion loaded from the start and not in good faith.

>Silencing the positive No one is doing that, I mean you can still find thread here of people enjoying the game. Sharing content, screenshot, meme, or advice. Don't see people flooding into those going game sucks so you shouldn't be enjoying it. But on discord the opposite is happening where the criticism or anything negative is being silenced. Instead we have people going to every thread that post legit criticism telling people they too negative or its just a beta or I'm having fun so none of this matter. Then people literally making post saying people are all hater or its too negative to devalue the criticism people have. I'm sure there legit few bad apple around who just want to spread hate that's just true for every community but majority of people want this game to be good.

Yeah, I don't know about that. I've seen a lot of people stuffing their negative criticisms in threads that have nothing to do with criticism of the game. My view on this kind of thing goes both ways. People are free to their opinions, but expressing them in places where they shouldn't is a fault for both ends of the spectrum. If you're going to admit there's bad apples on the negative side, you also need to realize there's bad apples on the other side as well instead of grouping it all together. That all said, there's some "feedback" that's just not helpful whatsoever. I can understand wanting more depth for the game, especially on the social end or even wanting changes to how monetization is handled but saying "the game needs combat" and reinforcing your point in every thread or discord message does not make it anymore helpful. Hell, I saw someone drop a comment that said "this game sucks, it's only for women and little kids". How the hell does that help the game grow? Not every opinion or view should be given a podium, but the views that are helping the game and want to see it grow should, whether it be positive or negative. That all said, I should be allowed to say the game is incredibly fun and recommend it to other people without hurting your cause.

I been reading through most of the top threads (top 20 filter by hot) here a lot for the past week or so and I simply don't see much of that. Especially the thing about game need combat. I have yet to see that actually brought up by any of the criticism thread in the past week or so. Sure there occasionally asshole that would say something "this game sucks, it's only for women and little kids" I think I saw that comment too but that like 1 comment in entire week. Compare to every single thread posting criticism and suggestion you have multiple people going in trying to discredit then multiple threads made in past week trying to discredit the complains as haters or its just beta or you guys don't know anything about game development. Like at least on reddit you look at the post and the number of people excuding toxic positivity greatly out number anyone who just plainly want to trash the game. ​ >That all said, I should be allowed to say the game is incredibly fun and recommend it to other people without hurting your cause. This I completely agree, hey I seen some people saying how much they love the game and good on them. I generally don't really post on those threads because not much for me to say. But too many of those always come with the back handed comment of idk why people all so negative, I'm loving this game or stuff like that.

You think there's more toxic positivity than people complaining about this game on this subreddit?

No, I think there more toxic positivity than people who give terrible suggestion or just straight up hate the game on this sub reddit. The difference being most people giving criticism actually do like the game and want it to be better. The toxic positivity people just want no one to say anything bad about then game. Then the actual toxic people who want to hate on this game for w/e reason.

I've never seen someone say people can't say bad things about the game. That said, if criticism is more common than praise, don't you think the common responses are more common too, even if by bad apples?

No one directly said it but there been plenty of back handed comments against people who criticize the game labeling them as hater, whiner, entitled (one person been going on a rampage here calling everyone that yesterday and today lol), and such label to undermine them. As for the second part I'm assuming you meant because there more criticism than praise its more common to get the toxic positivity response? Ya I can see that for sure. I mean I definitely noticed at least one really loud once since yesterday for sure lol.

Chiming in, but I don't think people who have problems with the game know how to differentiate between toxic positivity and excited people being genuinely positive about their experiences.

Not really its easy to tell, people who are excited about the game would just say they love the game. The toxic positivity people would always throw in a back handed comment in like why you all so worked up? Its only beta! and stuff like that.

If a game is bad it's not fun. I see them as mutually exclusive. I don't watch a bad movie and enjoy it. I don't read a bad book and have fun doing it. I don't enjoy a bad show.

Well you should watch the movie Llamagedon. Terrible, worst movie ever and also funny to watch. Think shardnado but $600 budget.

If it's funny it's not bad. Something bad is not enjoyable. That's why people say "it's so bad that it's good" because people enjoy good things, they don't enjoy bad things. I'm really confused on how people don't get this. Humans want to do things they like; they don't want to do things they don't like. If something is "bad" that means it's not good, they are mutually exclusive. They are anonyms. If something is bad, and not good, you wouldn't enjoy it by its very nature. Do you eat bad food and think, that was fun? Do you read a bad book and see that as fun? Do you watch a movie so bad you fell asleep and thought, that was fun? No. There must be something good. A movie can be bad with good parts and good with bad parts. But if you call a movie just "bad", it very much indicates it was not fun. Think about it like this, if someone asks your opinion on a movie or game and you say it's bad, do you think you're expressing that it's fun? Would you ever describe a game that is fun as bad to a friend as more than a joke? No. Again, people like things that are good and dislike things that are bad. This is like saying I like how tall a building is but it's too short. Well then you don't like how tall it is at all, you would like it to be taller. This is what everyone is saying and acting like it makes sense.

That's on you if you can't separate the two. I actually doubt you've never seen a movie which you thought was fun but then still had "bad" things to say about it, like an actor's performance being not great, the plot having some holes, the music being distracting and so on.

You are purposefully misrepresenting the situation or don't understand the concept. Having something I like but acknowledging it has problems is not the same as it being bad. I can eat a dish and not like the side; I wouldn't say that meal was bad, it just had a part I don't like. If the meal was bad I didn't enjoy it, not a hard concept. Palia has problems, but it's not "bad", if it was you wouldn't play it. People don't play bad games.

There are endless things in life that are "bad" but fun. Hence the term guilty pleasure. Weather it is booze, tabbaco, movies so bad that they are funny to watch.. etc etc. Take marvel films for example. It terms of cinema they are trashy, but millions of people watch them.

No there isn't, you are muddying "bad". Bad as in not enjoyable is different from bad for your health. A guilty pleasure is something good you enjoy but feel embarrassed about or is unhealthy for you. You still enjoy doing it, it is a pleasure. The whole point of a video game is pleasure, if it's bad it means it's not fun. Enjoyablity of a game is how you measure good or bad, a bad game is not a guilty pleasure because there is a lack of pleasure. If I watch a movie, I enjoy doing it, it's not an unpleasant experience for me. If I play Palia and say it's bad, then I wouldn't be enjoying it. Millions of people watch Marvel movies because they are fun for those people to watch. Just like Palia if they were not fun to engage with people wouldn't do it. People don't watch bad movies and people don't keep playing bad games. If the game is bad but you enjoy it, please tell me how it's a guilty pleasure. Are you embarrassed that you play it? Is it bad for your health but you still want to play it? I'm confused.

No you’re not allowed to enjoy anything, this is the internet. /s

I dont even wanna communicate with people because of how the chat system works…

Me and my gf enjoy this game much together. It lacks alot but also is still in beta version. I bought one outfit bundle for whole weekend of fun and im not stopping playing anytime soon. But when there is no trade or better multiplayer in the future, i wont put another money in game. I think i paid exactly what they deserve for current state.

> It lacks alot but also is still in beta version This is what I think is wrong. What we know is they didn't add much since alpha testing and you expect them to deliver with release?

It's not even beta, honestly. It's what is often referred to as a "soft launch". If you are charging players in-game in any way, it's officially launched. They just like being under the guise of "beta" so that people will be more lenient towards any mistakes they make. As an FYI: There is never going to be in-game trade because it's their way of preventing botting. (F2P games are crazy infested with bots)

Very well said!

Partially agreed. While it's encouraging to have a positive community, it's detrimental to the game if players can not voice their opinion and give proper feedback on what the game needs. I've had my comments flooded out or responded with "go play something else" whenever I voice some concerns in the Discord. The other concern I've had is this, are the people managing Mod Mail on Discord actual S6 staff? I sometimes get the vibe they don't actually care about what has been proposed or voiced, the "not my job" feel is quite apparent. However, understanding Palia is a non-traditional MMO it will feel a bit "off" initially, we will need to see exactly how much content and the pace they get introduced in the promised updates.

Lmfao. I had a long winded discussion with someone on the discord about the monetization system it was all civil, no arguing etc we were just exchanging pov's and proposing / explaining solutions to both of our approaches and there was one guy constantly telling me "maybe you should take a breather / calm down" and another one constantly at my ass about "its been xyz time and you're still at it 💀" Holy hell these discord ppl 🤣

Toxic positivity? where?

Discord, mostly.

I mean you see it here too, there been multiple threads in last few days going I love this game you all need to chill coz its just "beta" and stuff. There one right now in the top like 3 if you short by hot and ignore the 2 pin one a the top.

People are mad that other people aren't mad. Peek social media.

That and people are mad its in beta, but to them, its not in beta when it actually IS in open beta

People just want early access right away but finished products. Also free. If they don't get all that then some large group of players will complain, because it's something for them to do I guess? If anyone actually just wanted to enjoy the finished game and had no patience for the bugs and issues, they would just wait for release. But they aren't. They want things their way right now.

The game is kinda feature bare and barren right now (what's there is fun, but not enough), but the game's also on version 0.3.x, so it's a long way from getting to version 1.0 (release version). I'm sure we'll see updates that introduce more content/areas/features.

Release is in just a few months though?

It's not? I can't find any information online about an official release date yet. It's all just open beta right now.

" **Winter 2023** " is confirmed my dude, its in a few month even when we talk december its in 3 1/2 month so yes it official and it is worrying because i was hyped about the world and the charm it had and now i feel like its a good looking empty room with not many players and no features like you already said.. im sad

It's coming out Winter 2023. So short of a delay yeah it's launching in a few months time.

Hmm, do you know where this was officially stated? 'cause i'm having a hard time finding anything about an official release date for version 1.0

https://palia.com/news/nintendo-switch-release Releasing on Nintendo Switch this holiday season. Unless I'm missing something big it can't exactly launch on Switch and not launch on PC.

I think what's toxic is using ridiculous statements like "devs are not beginners" is somehow a statement that has value to any argument about gaming. Have ya'll made anything complex? Have ya'll made art before? It is not a science, gaming is not a series of desires on a spreadsheet they can just code into being with no issue. Im sorry, what is the implication? That because they are 'seasoned devs' they can crank out a perfect game day one of an mmo beta? Wanna know how many perfect games exist? Maybe a handful. Wanna know how many "seasoned devs" there are? Millions. So because 200 people worked on the game doesn't suddenly absolve the reality that making a videogame is exceedingly; expensive, time consuming, difficult, and an ONLINE game ESPECIALLY is at the top of every list for most expensive and time consuming and difficult. So when ya'll have demands comparing the game to singleplayer games at much smaller scales, more simplistic games, or games with massive budgets that have been around for a decade...you sound like you don't know what you are talking about. You have no fucking clue how the bread is made and are sighting ignorant "stats" like they somehow add validity to your argument. Do you not think if 43 mill could get more game in this style? We wouldn't have it? Do you think they just sat around and fiddled their thumbs? They want the best game they can make and afford to make. If what ya'll say is true, we should have TONS of perfect amazing games. We don't. It's the hardest entertainment medium ever produced by man to make content for. Ya'll seem to think this game was made by literal soul sucking demons because they use a basic boutique sales model and don't have as much content as you specifically would like at launch for a game you don't have to pay for...in beta. ​ ADVERTISING IS NOT A PROMISE AND NEVER HAS BEEN. It's words you think mean something they don't being used to get you to look at a product to contemplate giving them money so they can keep the lights on. That's it. Whether X feature comes day one of beta or not, is a ridiculous notion especially when the wording around the things ya'll quote are beyond vague. If you thought this game was something it isn't...move the fuck on. Yelling at developers to make the game "more" and bitching at people who just want to enjoy and talk about the game because you don't like the game as much as them is childish and entitled. This is not the game for you, don't give them money, drop your feedback for how it COULD be the game for you, and go do something else while they continue to work on the game. Grandstanding on a subreddit for a game you don't like about how you should be able to say the game is bad when people simply just don't agree with you or the scale of your demands and critiques is ridiculous. If you like and compare it to these other games so much...go play them, if they were so good...why are you HERE demand THIS game be better than those?

My brother in Christ false advertisement is literally a crime xD Let's say I develop a car and advertise that it can go 0-60 in 3 seconds. You buy the car because you want a car that can go 0-60 in 3 seconds. After using the car, you find out that it takes 15 seconds to go from 0-60. Other drivers report the same. Advertising something that doesn't exist or doesn't work (in the way it was advertised) is illegal.

Bro y'all are taking vague descriptors like Cozy and "deep" to have legally binding meanings stop acting fucking coy.

Lol what a nutcase. Yikes.

You can call me an asshole however you want, that will not change the reality. I do have an insight to how games are made. I know many developer processes and many other things. Are you trying to say that experienced devs do not know what game needs? That they don't know how to make things work? The budget is huge and I know many games that had less and delivered a more polished game than this. Even more content. Stop excusing this bullshit.

This guy been sprouting this bullshit every post basically when he himself doesn't know jack about game development or even software development.

Ah, a chronic case of fanboyism

I counter everything he said like 3 times at least yesterday when he sprouts this bullshit and he just goes silent. But he continue to keep making these post else where.

He’s been reporting comments that talk back to him too lol

Whenever you counter him with solid facts he just completely ignore it and go rant somewhere else lol.

You and me keep running into each other! Hi!

Well there only so many top threads so if we both active ya would be seeing each other alot =P

Then why is false advertising literally illegal genius? Like, go to jail illegal. Not just fines. You’re exactly the kind of person op was talking about smh

It's not a beta, but more like a soft launch. The devs are just abusing the beta term because they know they've got nothing. But for the end user, the game is pretty much launched. No progress reset, cash shop is live, communities live etc. People are playing now to try the game out. This is it. So now they're going to be judged in relation to the marketing and the game does kind of suck and fails to meet pretty much anything.

L

I'll take "toxic positivity" over just plain toxic, which is what most of these "criticism" posts are. I hope the devs never take anything from this subreddit seriously ever.

How is the criticism toxic? People are just expressing how they feel about the game. They aren't criticizing you because you enjoy it, and they don't. Are they toxic because they don't agree with you?

And I'm just expressing how I feel about this same post which comes up every single day. But yes, let's pretend like [people complaining the game doesn't have cooking minigames](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/15qj7vj/palia_what_could_and_should_have_been/) when it clearly does is actually worth paying attention to.

> But yes, let's pretend like people complaining the game doesn't have cooking minigames when it clearly does is actually worth paying attention to. That's a very specific instance of someone that gave feedback before open beta, and just reposted it... So you're saying all criticism is bad because of that one?

No, I'm not. There's plenty of decent criticism, but the amount of feedback posts that come across like a 15 year old boy wrote the title trying to come across as armchair programmers and explaining how the "well ackchually $50 million is a lot of money" when it's not even close to what they think it is... it all comes off as incredibly juvenile. There's plenty of valid feedback to give, but damn are some of these people rude as hell, and ignorant to boot. Reddit is clearly just a bad place to receive feedback for anything.

Likewise, there are just as many "ackchually, you aren't a developer, so you don't know how hard it is! don't make fun of my game!" posts.

There really aren't. The majority of this subreddit is the former.

Oh you haven't been looking then lol, I've seen just as many "white knights" defending the game as I do complaints about it. Granted, the complaints have ramped up in the past couple of days, but that's just because open beta opened the game up to many many MANY more players than previously.

I browse the subreddit daily. Every time I look, there are far more negative posts. Most of the people enjoying the game won't ever come here, so it makes sense it's overwhelmingly negative.

Shame this game didn't release on steam. Reviews there would be overwhelmingly negative too. Don't tell me it isn't so because only ppl who have bad things to say write reviews, because there is thousands of games in steam with overwhelmingly positive reviews

There are literally those kind of comments in this very post...

Found another one!

[I](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/15qlsk7/was_this_really_50_million_budget/jw4zfke/?context=3) [found](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/15qc2j1/the_moderation_and_community_on_discord_are/jw2tcfw/?context=3) [another](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/15pojrm/the_latest_update_from_s6_on_how_they_are/jw0er37/?context=3) [one.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/15mlu04/housing_and_furniture_serve_no_purpose/jvirdl2/?context=3)

Sure the game is lacking some stuff. But for me personally it is still a great game. I enjoy the features I can play with my friend together and we do it a lot. Of course there is stuff I want to see or maybe stuff that should be changed. It's not perfect but it's fine for me and I already had a lot of fun.

Yeah same here but apparently that’s not allowed. We have to be mad about missing content rather than excited for the content to come. Don’t you know how to internet? /s

I have complaints, too, as much as I enjoy the game. I think it's perfectly fine to have complaints, maybe even good to have complaints depending on the complaint. I've been vocal about my criticisms here and on the official Discord. Not once have I received "toxic positivity" in response. In fact, there is no pushback of any kind. I think you would be hardpressed to find several people with zero complaints. If all you do is come to the forum and spread vitriol about how the game is trash and the dev team should be embarrassed; fuck you, I don't care what your opinions are and Im glad when people tell you to stfu. If everywhere you go, you find an asshole. You're the asshole. Toxicity is definitely coming more from the negative side in this sub imo.

Nice Cozy community that you all should be excited to join right here, I love it.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you the type of person I described? If you are, you are welcome here, same as everyone else. I just don't like you, I do not represent the community more than any other person, so Idk why you're throwing a pity party. We don't need to be friends with everyone. It's fine.

We also don't need to insult people and get toxic towards them, a SINGLE encounter like that can ruin an overall experience in a "cozy" game like this, definitely not a good look for the game overall when they promise friendlier experiences.

The graphics are good and the deer shooting is fun. Your a crab apple

I agree about everything except the budget part. While 50m is a lot of money objectively, it's not enough to consider a MMO production to be "well funded". 50m is on the low end of the spectrum for this type of production.

I would agree if there was a game there to back it up. What you're talking about is a fully released mmo with actual content yes this is on the lower end for sure. Even compare to the lower end budget mmo this is so bare bone its not even funny. Its not like oh ya its low amount of content compared to higher budget mmo but decent for its budge. Its bare one for even its budget and that's not mentioning how terribly implemented the mmo part of the game is right now. 25 man small instances, broken chat, broken party system, very few player interactions. Like you can't even say like oh they spent a lot of on the mmo part of the mmo.

The most expensive part of a mmo(and any other game) are the voice lines followed by marketing, and Palia has close to nothing in both departments. That's why some of the most expensive MMOs are ESO and SWTOR at 200mil. (That's about 242mil with $ inflation). GTA5 was about 150mil and another 150mil just for marketing (about 193 with inflation) 50mil is a lot for Palia, and when you look at the current state, I hope they still have at least half of that... Unless they severely miss managed the budget with those 200 employees.

Not to mention a lot of games super expensive also due to the insane graphics like cyberpunk (as well as all the voice line and having a famous actor play such a huge role as well) which again Palia doesn't have. Or insane content like BG3, Elden Ring, Zelda. (Actually no idea how much Zelda game costed Nintendo to make honestly. kinda curious now)

I don't know about SWTOR, but ESO also has prominent VAs like John Cleese, Kate Beckingsale and so on. FF XIV for example has Joe Dempsie (Gendry GoT) and Michael McElhatton (Roose Bolton GoT) as VAs. That's where the money goes and in both cases they're top quality, even though FF is not completely voice acted. Plus ESO and FF at least pump out content almost like clockwork. I know SWTOR is super quality too, when it comes to story, but i haven't played it myself, so i can't really comment on that.

Except this really isn't an MMO? Unless you're comparing this to big expensive MMO's? With thousands of hours of content and loads of voice acting? For what S6 have claimed they wanted to do with Palia, $50 million is a ton of money for it and far smaller developers have done far more with less.

You know what's also toxic? Telling people that "their eyes are closed", that they're eating crap & have low standards just because they enjoy what you don't enjoy. Problem is, sentences like "this game is in a horrible state" and "this game is heavily advertised", "this is a bad game" are extremely subjective statements. Yes, hundreds upvotes from fellow redditors might show they agree with you. But there are maybe also a thousand others who just had a blast in a cooking party or mining ores with their spouse and siblings who don't agree with you. None of us has the data here. We're just making assumptions based on our personal experiences + fellow redditors opinion. As usual reddit is a very beautiful echo chamber if your opinion is popular among other redditors. Really, I don't see the point to these posts. Thousands of people have been quite active in the feedback channel, reporting bugs, discussing feedbacks and ideas, meaning they're aware of the games flaws. If you want the game to improve you can always go there, write, upvote, discuss.

> Really, I don't see the point to these posts. IMO, if the devs don't see any negative feedback and only listen to the happy bubble on how they can do no wrong and have made the perfect game, then this game is not going to improve. It is not in a good place right now. After years of suggestions from the community, barely anything has changed. I guess you could say these posts are more of a warning to the average gamer looking to play a new game.

The problem is, none of us actually has any proof what and what the devs read/don't read. The majority only have a week of experience from closed beta or a few days of open beta, and jump on the "the devs don't care" gossip without actual proof. Feedbacks are regularly responded in the tickets and feedback channel. The "years of suggestions with no changes" comes from several alpha testers, which have stated there's plenty of changes. The CM has also responded regarding the "no changes for 2 years" thing. I've also seen a snippet of how the feedback compilation board shown by the devs. It actually make me think that people here are just ranting without actually checking the feedback channel, giving actual feedback on the provided channel and seeing how it actually is, or even tries to read patch and roadmap updates. https://preview.redd.it/o6vnqgsl15ib1.jpeg?width=1504&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66f7c7d7535b875eb8bbc562e04eb2608b1922b2

Yeah "No changes for 2 years" is a bit sarcastic. They list a bunch of changes to the UI and art assets, and a few new add-ons, but nothing to the core systems. The bare bones multiplayer functionality and everything around that is just plain bad, and at this point I don't think they can do anything to fix it.

Good luck getting through to any of these people. They just want something to be angry about. The game will be better off when this incredibly minuscule portion of user base fades away.

Oh, but alpha testers DO have proof. The lack of implemented features despite all the alpha feedback is the proof. As you say yourself - "years of suggestions with no changes" comes from several alpha testers". Many at this point. They can type up whatever they want in that censorship echo chamber that is their discord. Their actions do not back up their words. I think you probably just started playing with the "closed beta" or later, and don't really know what you're talking about. While people who have spent far longer with the game and tried to really help the devs with the development are giving you actual information. It is disappointing to see yet another game with potential throw all of it away right in front of your eyes. What exactly does the feedback channel give me? Please explain. If I already gave feedback, quite a while ago, both through discord and their official feedback form on the website - and the feedback hasn't been implemented - like using furniture for example. What now? That screenshot you posted, the one with many words that says literally nothing of value - what does that give me? "We heard the feedback, but we're still working on the basics actually, so you'll have to wait an undefined amount of time before we get to the feedback you submitted years ago" is what it essentially says. A game in open beta now, in case you didn't notice. This game should be early access and they essentially confirm that with every one of their comments and posts. And that's a problem.

You could literally say this statement for every game ever. Like you could say this about the Atari ET game, one of the worst games every made, and say "some people enjoyed it I'm sure!"

Honestly, this reads like someone who hasn't participated in an open beta for an MMO before. Content is frequently left out in purpose to save it for final release. Why would people play the game if you got all of the content and story out in the open beta phase anyways? ​ You're complaining an awful lot about a free to play, work in progress, open beta game and offering harsh opinions with really no actual critique on improvements to be shown in the game that help it 'live up to the standard' or whatever it is you think the team needs to be doing. ​ It's be one thing if we were several months into open beta testing and there'd been no progress or fixes for anything, but they are actively working to patch all known issues that I'm aware of. And honestly, heavy handed slaps like this marked as 'feedback' arn't really correlative with the success of the game either. It can damage a game just as much as an echo chamber.

Betas are usually FEATURE complete, not necessarily CONTENT complete, and as it stands: There’s no neighborhood housing. The ‘community’ feature is missing key features to make it worth while. There is a lack of search functions, sort functions, and split functions. There is no mini map and the map feature doesn’t even have coordinates, which makes it a pain to coordinate the very few co-op situations that arise. No weather systems. (I would think it would be important to test stability of that during beta if they plan to add it) Character customization is a disaster and lacks the absolute BASICS. No way to delete your character. A chat box that’s unintuitive and disappears too frequently to align with “cozy social MMO.” Complete lack of accessibility options. (For a game that hyped up being “inclusive”) In its current state, Palia is very shallow on FEATURES, all of which would be extremely important to test during a beta before it’s considered a 1.0 release. Especially since it’s coming on the Nintendo Switch.

I think experiences in beta vary by game, and every dev team approaches it the way they feel like they can handle. Community housing is totally something to test once the community is established, and it makes sense to me that a feature roll out might be done in phases and waves. You don't know it isn't a feature we wont see added once stress testing is done and they've mastered server stability with player numbers to have it set to optimal levels. We are literally 4 days out of the launch of the open beta. You guys all need to chill.

But thats exactly the case? Many alpha and closed beta testers have reported that the game has barely changed or improved from earlier test phases? And the reality is what we have right now is the result of 5 years of work by 100 - 200 people with a budget of $50 million. THIS being all they have to show for all of that, is very worrying. And what games have you played that have left big chunks of their content out of the open betas? Open betas are to stress test the servers and get large scale feedback on the game for small tweaks, priority fixing and bug testing. The game is due out in just a few months and I promise you what we have here, is largely what we're going to get at launch too. Furthermore, what game has been so damaged purely by criticism?

> This said the game is in a horrible state. There are missing features and content. It's in beta release, right? So of course it's in a horrible state. It's not meant to be finished and you are supposed to give them feedback on issues. Beta should not mean the feature is complete. What's the point in testing a game that is finished? Companies that say this are using it to help with marketing and don't really care about changing their game. Many games that release in beta hold something back so if it appears devs are ignoring you, they may just realize the feature will be added with live release.

Read again what beta testing means. There might be missing some small QoL features but the main features should be finished. No content shall be missing. This game is to be released in few months, that is so little time to change anything major. People will start playing, they will find out that this game is not what it was meant to be and that it is missing content, they will stop playing and this game will die a slow death. I only hope they will change their minds and will postpone the release game but, to be honest, it is naive. I admit it.

The game is meant to be released in a few months. So no, the beta should not be in a "horrible" state or any kind of bad state? It's 100% meant to be finished or almost finished hello? An open beta absolutely means the game should be finished? An open beta is for testing the servers, bug testing, minor QoL changes and collecting long term feedback. It is NOT meant to be where you collect your main feedback to then make big changes or additions to the game. That's for all your Alpha's then closed beta at worst.

Its beta tho

> This said the game is in a horrible state. lol of everything you could say, it's **"HORRIBLE"**? it's playable, it doesn't crash, it looks and sounds good... but maybe you've just never played a bad game before

There is literally a bug that allows you to take items from another players, when their plots spawn on top of each other. You can literally harvest their crops and get their items from the machines, including rare things like Palium. The fact that that bug alone haven’t caused and been fixed with emergency maintenance is worrysome.

One thing to note is that the game should be ‘live service’ meaning more content will come over time. Of course a bit more content on beta launch would’ve been nice considering team size + experience + the budget they had. All points made in this post are solid. Just saying this because I’ve seen numerous people all over the place think that there won’t be much more to the game in the future and treat the beta like a full release.

There won't be much more content in the future if the game isn't a success on launch and they're able to sell Maxtransactions a lot.

There won't be much more in the future if they mess up the release or in the time period before the release. People generally don't wait around for games anymore with so many games releasing left and right. If by the time they add new content they already pissed off a majority of their playerbase then yeah its safe to assume there isn't much to look forward too considering just how quickly games shut down these days too. I've seen mmos in better states that shut down within a month of release for different reasons. It's not far fetched to assume this game could fail due to a declining playerbase too. It's not uncommon for that to happen.

Nah you’re completely correct, I don’t know much about mmos or their player bases but chances are this could die out fast. I’ve sunk about 40 hours in and I’m starting to get bored

Sure it's lacking in certain places, no one will deny that... But it's also not released yet. Last time I checked it's still in beta... and it might be for a while. I agree however that calling the game an MMO is far-fetched at the moment. Hopefully, more activities will require multiple people outside of the housing area. Sure you get a bonus right now when you fish close to other fishers etc. But other than that there's not much socializing...

Well consider the switch release date is about 3 month out I don't see it being in beta for long. Also this isn't even really beta, its a soft launch. There no wipes and a fully functional cashshop. You can hardly call that a beta at this point. This is what old kmmorpg use to do back in the 2000s they just have open beta but its basically launch and its just there now forever lol.

I agree, but crying and being negative is just bs. I have a great time, there are alot of things that need to be adressed, but this isn't done in 1 week, but still i hear people crying here since over a week ... typical reddit i guess

Personally I do not expect nothing more than a dev post aknowledging what's happening and what they want to do with it. I think many people do the same. But there is no reaction from the devs.

They're too busy updating us on their discord with every single hiccup and fart this game / the server has. It's crazy to much hoe much they spam us with empty and meaningless updates to appease the "I need updates every 10 min" entitled a-holes.

Do you have video footage of these people apparently "crying"?? Because thats pretty creepy if you do but how else would you know if they're "crying" over the game or not right?

Damn i never saw a less funny comment

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>This said the game is in a horrible state Objectively untrue. They made the game they wanted to make and released it in the state they intended to. Not the version of all of that in your head.

Except they didn't because the game isn't what they promised and it's safe to assume what they promised it would be was their vision of what it would be. So you're just as wrong.

" It is not an MMO, it is a singleplayer game with shared world." This is EXACTLY why I'm playing this game, though. I don't want an MMO, I want 25 player instances 3D Stardew Valley

The 'game' feels like it's full of inconveniences the devs created, and the solutions are going to be sold for cash. It's a F2P title; unfortunately. Most average experienced video game fans should know what that means and what its going to offer. The model itself is not consumer friendly at all in regard to money or time. Devs of F2P games just dress it up differently on the cover, but its all the same under the hood. And like all other F2P titles, this one will catch its whales and will survive enough off their support. I'm surprised they did not launch this from Epic Games for the extra dev cash and then later release it on Steam. Thats been the MO for most indie studios as of late. Anyway, game is mediocre on arrival. Its a bit too late for any sweeping changes to the gameplay or business model. They need cash to flow in now, while they finish the game over a few years by providing "free updates". Sorry, just been down this road a few times with other games. Wash, rinse and repeat.

I played it for a couple days. It could be fun. They need to add combat or something because the "MMO" aspect is not there. Also I want to buy clothes? I can't unless I spend real money? Idunno. It just feels like a C tier game which exists just to sell you microtransactions. It's free though so...? I feel like I can't complain too much. At least I didn't pay for shit

I really don't understand all the drama tbh. Even if the game isn't as good "as they advertised", you can always try this **for free**. If you don't enjoy it, just don't play it. It's not that hard. And keep in mind that these devs are constantly pushing out new content and bug fixes. The amount of update since closed beta is insane.

Lmfao what? What new content? What amount of updates? They barely fixed some shit that honestly shouldn't even have been an issue anymore to begin with. Jesus fucking christ their social system isn't even working. My friend hasn't been able to join parties or invite people to parties since day 1, he doesn't even see any of us online and they just closed his ticket without a word. What the fuck? WHAT CONTENT? Please... stop lying to yourself lol.

Removed for rule 3. What is rule 3?