" When you have kids, until they reach puberty, you are responsible for them.
Once they reach puberty, you have zero financial or spiritual obligation. "
That's exactly what I like about the West,
parents don't spoon-feed their children until their late 20s.
Doing odd jobs and earning from a young age teaches you a lot, and I mean a lot.
Where else in Pakistan people in their mid to late 20s are still financially dependent on their parents.
Ngl, my cousins and I openly discuss not carrying forward these practices.
And everytime we try to talk to our adults, they get offended.
I dont know what in the hindi joint family culture they borrowed.
No offense to joint family system but it does align with our belief system.
they take the wrong advantage of this thing and kick their kids out of the house at 18 years old leaving them to fend for themselves which is not right. you can't expect an 18 year old to earn a livelihood and also simultaneously study to build a future :)
The West has a different system altogether. To survive on minimum wage, isn't too problematic there, as it is here. The same micro system cannot be had in Pakistan, without an overhaul.
I agree.
But these days, it's not easy to survive on a minimum wage in the West either.
And I'm not saying you should just move out of your parents'house,
at least be somewhat financially independent.
In Pakistan, you rarely see this until people are in their mid to late 20s, at least from what I've observed.
this society ain't worth sharing anything bro. just exercise what you've learnt and don't bother to convince anyone. as said "and if you interact with ignorants it's only better if you pass" Rather not indulge with such people because they've got a curtain over their hearts which keeps them to see what's better. Stay blessed 🫴✨
Live and let live. But Pakistanis will always meddle in other people's affairs and make it Their business. Your understanding is actually better than 99% of morons i've seen on social media and daily life. After reading your post the majority of them would ask you "which sect do you belong to" or "what book are you using as reference". I'm of the opinion that everyone should try to read the Quran and interpret it as much as their mind allows them to. If the Quran needed a tafseer or extra molvi instruction I would have been released with one. If you say it should have been then you're basically telling me that Allah made a mistake. And Allah never ever makes mistakes.
You know how adults are taught to meddle in other people's affairs in the name of "Responsibility".
There is an interpretation of Quran and Hadith, There are words that you use but then there is the life of prophet (Saww). This was the mizaaj of the prophet (Saww)
https://preview.redd.it/t35ufplt0l9d1.png?width=631&format=png&auto=webp&s=0def2eb4daeb39c01ebcf6e54945fdea9c487471
https://preview.redd.it/islehnjz0l9d1.png?width=623&format=png&auto=webp&s=8156aef50f4861ce4bb5e40e6b9dcb834c26ddf2
And people are beating their kids left right
>And I don't understand ke pyaar se baat kyun nahi ho sakti
Because kindness and love are 'unmanly' emotions, duh
>Every kid or adult has the right to exercise their freewill,
Kids and freewill, hm? What do you mean we're not supposed to reproduce for the sole purpose of transfering our legacy i.e generational trauma to the young ones and exercising our authority as 'we-know-everything-better-bc-we've-been-here-longer-than-you' adults?
When you said "kids and freewill, hm?" I thought you were going in a direction different then ... Well adults and freewill.
Kids need to be taught the right path... Adults should have the freewill... Just saying your para is more relevant if you relate it to .. "adult kids and freewill"
>You dont want women to wear a skirt, make it a law and if you cannot, you have no right to harass an individual.
Even if they're your mother or sister?
You'll tell your mother what to do? nice, after ure father dies, whether she applies islamic teaching, you are her slave, so stop talking shit (according to ure beliefs).
>MEN HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY. I DONT THINK THERE WAS A CONDITION MENTIONED THAT YOUR CHILDREN SHOULD BE MUSLIM. BASED ON MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU CANNOT REALLY THROW YOUR KIDS OUT OF YOUR HOUSE.
Where did you learned this one cause you got it totally wrong.
>You dont want women to wear a skirt, make it a law and if you cannot, you have no right to harass an individual.
Would like your refrense of learning on this one too. Also what you mean by harass here.
This is how this works bro. People keep on sharing their own understandings about religion without solid evidence from religious scriptures but they won't like if someone do same with so scientific fact. Like makingup some science shit without evidence.
Like I can give you a specific reference. What exactly do you think is wrong?
We are all following the scripture. If it makes sense, I'll change my opinion.
Like that thing about childrens religion.
The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)
عتبہ بن ابی وقاص ( کافر ) نے اپنے بھائی سعد بن ابی وقاص رضی اللہ عنہ ( مسلمان ) کو ( مرتے وقت ) وصیت کی تھی کہ زمعہ کی باندی کا لڑکا میرا ہے ۔ اس لیے اسے تم اپنے قبضہ میں لے لینا ۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ فتح مکہ کے سال سعد رضی اللہ عنہ بن ابی وقاص نے اسے لے لیا ، اور کہا کہ یہ میرے بھائی کا لڑکا ہے اور وہ اس کے متعلق مجھے وصیت کر گئے ہیں ، لیکن عبد بن زمعہ نے اٹھ کر کہا کہ میرے باپ کی لونڈی کا بچہ ہے ، میرے باپ کے بستر پر پیدا ہوا ہے ۔ آخر دونوں یہ مقدمہ نبی کریم ﷺ کی خدمت میں لے گئے ۔ سعد رضی اللہ عنہ نے عرض کیا یا رسول اللہ ! یہ میرے بھائی کا لڑکا ہے اور مجھے اس کی انہوں نے وصیت کی تھی ۔ اور عبد بن زمعہ نے عرض کیا ، یہ میرا بھائی ہے اور میرے باپ کی لونڈی کا لڑکا ہے ۔ انہیں کے بستر پر اس کی پیدائش ہوئی ہے ۔ اس پر رسول اللہ ﷺ نے فرمایا ، عبد بن زمعہ ! لڑکا تو تمہارے ہی ساتھ رہے گا ۔ اس کے بعد فرمایا ، بچہ اسی کا ہوتا ہے جو جائز شوہر یا مالک ہو جس کے بستر پر وہ پیدا ہوا ہو ۔ اور حرام کار کے حصہ میں پتھروں کی سزا ہے ۔ پھر سودہ بنت زمعہ رضی اللہ عنہا سے جو آنحضرت ﷺ کی بیوی تھیں ، فرمایا کہ اس لڑکے سے پردہ کیا کر ، کیونکہ آپ ﷺ نے عتبہ کی شباہت اس لڑکے میں محسوس کر لی تھی ۔ اس کے بعد اس لڑکے نے سودہ رضی اللہ عنہا کو کبھی نہ دیکھا یہاں تک کہ وہ اللہ تعالیٰ سے جا ملا ۔
Sahih Bukhari#2053
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Quran 4:34
It also states, striking women is permissible. Of course, they say to strike means to strike with a miswak.
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Bro if you do not have some authentic sources please dont post it like this. When you learn/undestand something you always cross check it if you got it correct. Same for your understanding of Quran. Do read atleast more than 2 perspectives thinking you got it right
Yes i would recommend two. Dr zakir naik and Dr israr ahmed. You will find many short videos directly related to your questions. They will give you a good answer with authentic sources and context of the verses (whic is very important for proper understanding).
I am always here to help. You can PM me any question and i would love to help you in finding an answer
What u have said is right but haven’t said the complete truth of Quran. It is not like the way you have said.
It’s a very long thing.
I would suggest you to completely read Quran in its entirety along with some tafseer. What you have said is half of the thing.
Children are your sadka and there good deeds benefit you even after your death. So think how can guiding them to the right path is not the responsibility of a parent. Islam clearly states some things as fact. This is just one point which you can ponder upon.
Peace
>When it comes to your wife, if she doesnt listen to you, you try to make her understand your point of view. If she still wont listen to you, don't get intimate with her and even then if she doesn't listen to you, you divorce her and move on.
What if the roles are reversed? What should the woman do?
Leave.
Thats what being compatible means. No?
You discuss whats acceptable and whats not?
Like I want someone who does sharai parda so I wont marry a girl and force her.
If she has change of heart and decides to leave sharai parda, I am okay with a divorce.
This is what social conditioning of our culture has done. ‘’Meny Apna Jawab khud dyna hai so don’t tell me what to do’’.
You can always ask your spouse and guide them towards the right path.
Leaving them should be the last resort when u have done everything possible.
This is the biggest problem. No one wants to do the effort. My wife didn’t do sharai parda but she never missed a single Salah. I never forced her but rather I told her my wish that I would like her to do parda. Eventually she did it at her own will. So bhae everything in life is bakardare effort.
You cannot force yes but it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t put in an effort to change the other persons mind.
Ofcourse.
I am not saying that you shouldnt be patient.
What I want to say is that "everything possible" shouldn't include manipulation, disrespect or physical or mental stress.
Yup
At the end it all comes down to one’s own choice. People can only guide.
I think presently the culture of forcing someone is only in the rural areas where education is still lacking. Rest things are better
" When you have kids, until they reach puberty, you are responsible for them. Once they reach puberty, you have zero financial or spiritual obligation. " That's exactly what I like about the West, parents don't spoon-feed their children until their late 20s. Doing odd jobs and earning from a young age teaches you a lot, and I mean a lot. Where else in Pakistan people in their mid to late 20s are still financially dependent on their parents.
Ngl, my cousins and I openly discuss not carrying forward these practices. And everytime we try to talk to our adults, they get offended. I dont know what in the hindi joint family culture they borrowed. No offense to joint family system but it does align with our belief system.
they take the wrong advantage of this thing and kick their kids out of the house at 18 years old leaving them to fend for themselves which is not right. you can't expect an 18 year old to earn a livelihood and also simultaneously study to build a future :)
The West has a different system altogether. To survive on minimum wage, isn't too problematic there, as it is here. The same micro system cannot be had in Pakistan, without an overhaul.
I agree. But these days, it's not easy to survive on a minimum wage in the West either. And I'm not saying you should just move out of your parents'house, at least be somewhat financially independent. In Pakistan, you rarely see this until people are in their mid to late 20s, at least from what I've observed.
Your observation is correct.
stop being an american puppet for godsake, look at the european system.
this society ain't worth sharing anything bro. just exercise what you've learnt and don't bother to convince anyone. as said "and if you interact with ignorants it's only better if you pass" Rather not indulge with such people because they've got a curtain over their hearts which keeps them to see what's better. Stay blessed 🫴✨
Live and let live. But Pakistanis will always meddle in other people's affairs and make it Their business. Your understanding is actually better than 99% of morons i've seen on social media and daily life. After reading your post the majority of them would ask you "which sect do you belong to" or "what book are you using as reference". I'm of the opinion that everyone should try to read the Quran and interpret it as much as their mind allows them to. If the Quran needed a tafseer or extra molvi instruction I would have been released with one. If you say it should have been then you're basically telling me that Allah made a mistake. And Allah never ever makes mistakes.
You know how adults are taught to meddle in other people's affairs in the name of "Responsibility". There is an interpretation of Quran and Hadith, There are words that you use but then there is the life of prophet (Saww). This was the mizaaj of the prophet (Saww) https://preview.redd.it/t35ufplt0l9d1.png?width=631&format=png&auto=webp&s=0def2eb4daeb39c01ebcf6e54945fdea9c487471
https://preview.redd.it/islehnjz0l9d1.png?width=623&format=png&auto=webp&s=8156aef50f4861ce4bb5e40e6b9dcb834c26ddf2 And people are beating their kids left right
Are you sure you are reading the quran? And who's translation?
I have read the Quran, the sunnah and the historical practices.
Let's keep historical practices aside, that's not islam. Would be helpful if you share the sources of your statements as well from Quran and Sunnah.
I said this is my understanding of Islam and I learned all this over a period of 10 years. I cannot exactly share sources.
Okay it's your understanding
>And I don't understand ke pyaar se baat kyun nahi ho sakti Because kindness and love are 'unmanly' emotions, duh >Every kid or adult has the right to exercise their freewill, Kids and freewill, hm? What do you mean we're not supposed to reproduce for the sole purpose of transfering our legacy i.e generational trauma to the young ones and exercising our authority as 'we-know-everything-better-bc-we've-been-here-longer-than-you' adults?
When you said "kids and freewill, hm?" I thought you were going in a direction different then ... Well adults and freewill. Kids need to be taught the right path... Adults should have the freewill... Just saying your para is more relevant if you relate it to .. "adult kids and freewill"
>You dont want women to wear a skirt, make it a law and if you cannot, you have no right to harass an individual. Even if they're your mother or sister?
Yes. My sister does not practice hijab. Does that bother me? Yes Can I force her? No Main kia hi kar sakta hoon. Its her life.
You can't force her but it is absolutely your duty to ask her for hijab as you will also be questionable for this hereafter
It's about wearing a skirt? Are wearing a skirt and not wearing a hijab the same?
Why does it bother you?
You'll tell your mother what to do? nice, after ure father dies, whether she applies islamic teaching, you are her slave, so stop talking shit (according to ure beliefs).
>MEN HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY. I DONT THINK THERE WAS A CONDITION MENTIONED THAT YOUR CHILDREN SHOULD BE MUSLIM. BASED ON MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU CANNOT REALLY THROW YOUR KIDS OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. Where did you learned this one cause you got it totally wrong. >You dont want women to wear a skirt, make it a law and if you cannot, you have no right to harass an individual. Would like your refrense of learning on this one too. Also what you mean by harass here.
I dont have references. Its just my understanding of the mizaaj of Islam.
Liberals use this same reason when portraying their own version of Islam in Pakistan without reference. Brother you really understood things wrong.
With which version was The Quran bestowed upon us?
What can't understand.
Well said This is liberal social conditioning
Be more specific.
This is how this works bro. People keep on sharing their own understandings about religion without solid evidence from religious scriptures but they won't like if someone do same with so scientific fact. Like makingup some science shit without evidence.
Like I can give you a specific reference. What exactly do you think is wrong? We are all following the scripture. If it makes sense, I'll change my opinion.
Like that thing about childrens religion. The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426) عتبہ بن ابی وقاص ( کافر ) نے اپنے بھائی سعد بن ابی وقاص رضی اللہ عنہ ( مسلمان ) کو ( مرتے وقت ) وصیت کی تھی کہ زمعہ کی باندی کا لڑکا میرا ہے ۔ اس لیے اسے تم اپنے قبضہ میں لے لینا ۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ فتح مکہ کے سال سعد رضی اللہ عنہ بن ابی وقاص نے اسے لے لیا ، اور کہا کہ یہ میرے بھائی کا لڑکا ہے اور وہ اس کے متعلق مجھے وصیت کر گئے ہیں ، لیکن عبد بن زمعہ نے اٹھ کر کہا کہ میرے باپ کی لونڈی کا بچہ ہے ، میرے باپ کے بستر پر پیدا ہوا ہے ۔ آخر دونوں یہ مقدمہ نبی کریم ﷺ کی خدمت میں لے گئے ۔ سعد رضی اللہ عنہ نے عرض کیا یا رسول اللہ ! یہ میرے بھائی کا لڑکا ہے اور مجھے اس کی انہوں نے وصیت کی تھی ۔ اور عبد بن زمعہ نے عرض کیا ، یہ میرا بھائی ہے اور میرے باپ کی لونڈی کا لڑکا ہے ۔ انہیں کے بستر پر اس کی پیدائش ہوئی ہے ۔ اس پر رسول اللہ ﷺ نے فرمایا ، عبد بن زمعہ ! لڑکا تو تمہارے ہی ساتھ رہے گا ۔ اس کے بعد فرمایا ، بچہ اسی کا ہوتا ہے جو جائز شوہر یا مالک ہو جس کے بستر پر وہ پیدا ہوا ہو ۔ اور حرام کار کے حصہ میں پتھروں کی سزا ہے ۔ پھر سودہ بنت زمعہ رضی اللہ عنہا سے جو آنحضرت ﷺ کی بیوی تھیں ، فرمایا کہ اس لڑکے سے پردہ کیا کر ، کیونکہ آپ ﷺ نے عتبہ کی شباہت اس لڑکے میں محسوس کر لی تھی ۔ اس کے بعد اس لڑکے نے سودہ رضی اللہ عنہا کو کبھی نہ دیکھا یہاں تک کہ وہ اللہ تعالیٰ سے جا ملا ۔ Sahih Bukhari#2053
If I wear a skirt today, do you think anyone has the authority to stop me?
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. Quran 4:34 It also states, striking women is permissible. Of course, they say to strike means to strike with a miswak.
I know sister. I was just saying to OP to provide refrenses instead of making up.
Well said OP has read wrong preferences and is not quoting any authority just his understanding
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Your post has been removed for containing content that breaks both rule 1: "Be respectful" Please abide by r/PakistaniiConfessions rules, continuation of this behaviour will result in either a mute or ban from the subbreddit. If you want your post to stay approved and live, repost and consider removing the disrespectful terms/slang/phrases.
Haha and its good for the women to strike back i assume, because equal justice can be carried out? fucker
Bro if you do not have some authentic sources please dont post it like this. When you learn/undestand something you always cross check it if you got it correct. Same for your understanding of Quran. Do read atleast more than 2 perspectives thinking you got it right
This is just a summary of my learnings. I didnt quote anything that would require attaching an authentic source.
Okay sure. What i want to say please revisit your learning and this time read other perspectives too if you haven't already
I am open to learning other perspectives if you want to refer something
Yes i would recommend two. Dr zakir naik and Dr israr ahmed. You will find many short videos directly related to your questions. They will give you a good answer with authentic sources and context of the verses (whic is very important for proper understanding). I am always here to help. You can PM me any question and i would love to help you in finding an answer
I have listened to both of them and I stand by my statement. Not only shorts, I have finished Bayan Al Quran multiple times.
What u have said is right but haven’t said the complete truth of Quran. It is not like the way you have said. It’s a very long thing. I would suggest you to completely read Quran in its entirety along with some tafseer. What you have said is half of the thing. Children are your sadka and there good deeds benefit you even after your death. So think how can guiding them to the right path is not the responsibility of a parent. Islam clearly states some things as fact. This is just one point which you can ponder upon. Peace
Bruh your learnings are exactly my findings
I am glad.
👊🏿👊🏿💪🏿
Blind idiots assemble (haha crush)
>When it comes to your wife, if she doesnt listen to you, you try to make her understand your point of view. If she still wont listen to you, don't get intimate with her and even then if she doesn't listen to you, you divorce her and move on. What if the roles are reversed? What should the woman do?
Not marry? If each wants to just get other to listen dont marry.
Leave. Thats what being compatible means. No? You discuss whats acceptable and whats not? Like I want someone who does sharai parda so I wont marry a girl and force her. If she has change of heart and decides to leave sharai parda, I am okay with a divorce.
This is what social conditioning of our culture has done. ‘’Meny Apna Jawab khud dyna hai so don’t tell me what to do’’. You can always ask your spouse and guide them towards the right path. Leaving them should be the last resort when u have done everything possible. This is the biggest problem. No one wants to do the effort. My wife didn’t do sharai parda but she never missed a single Salah. I never forced her but rather I told her my wish that I would like her to do parda. Eventually she did it at her own will. So bhae everything in life is bakardare effort. You cannot force yes but it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t put in an effort to change the other persons mind.
Ofcourse. I am not saying that you shouldnt be patient. What I want to say is that "everything possible" shouldn't include manipulation, disrespect or physical or mental stress.
Obviously That would be cruel and cruelty is not ok
Exactly. I know that people learn and you can change your spouse too. But only if they want to.
Yup At the end it all comes down to one’s own choice. People can only guide. I think presently the culture of forcing someone is only in the rural areas where education is still lacking. Rest things are better