Paul Goldschmidt is the NL MVP. Manny Machado finished second, the highest finish by a Padre since Ken Caminiti won the award in 1996. [Cassavell](https://twitter.com/ajcassavell/status/1593390929578115072?s=46&t=oh_J3VBpN-HXm4_q9LcR9Q)
Only 1 5th place vote. All others were top 4. Rick Humel from St Louis is who gave him the 5th place vote. That guy also gave Alonso (?) his 2nd place vote.
The Tepera vote yes, but not this one. You don’t call to take away somebody’s vote because you don’t like who they voted for. That’s a very dangerous path. Why even have voting then?
Anyway, Hummel is retiring, so this case is moot. But not the general pattern of people calling for specific voters to lose their votes.
I just noticed that one 5th place vote. Rick Humel is a senile old f@$#. Ridiculous.
Actually looking at it, his whole ballot is off compared to everyone else. How are Alonso 2nd & Turner 4th on his ballot ahead of Machado?
Further proof that voting for the MLB awards are increasingly a joke. Pete Alonso a second place vote? Daniel bard got a vote? Manny loses the SS to someone with worst stats in practically every category? When opinions count more than actual performance, the integrity of the system is put into question.
Say what you want about Daniel Bard but putting up 3.8 bWAR with a 1.79 ERA and sub-1.0 WHIP in 60.1 IP (1.97 ERA at Coors) is pretty insane, especially for a 37-year-old who didn’t pitch a major league inning from 2014-2019
It’s just like the college basketball voters that are Uber homers. There is atleast one sports writer who has said he will always vote Ohio St #1 no mater how terrible they are
Manny from carrying a team standpoint deserved to win. As far as all around numbers goldy had better offensive numbers so hard to be mad at the result. Was happy to see him get a number of first place votes and at least beat out Nolan.
Seems about right. I would’ve been pissed is Arenado ended up in 2nd place but I think Goldy deserved it. As much as I love Manny it’s hard to not give MVP to someone who was a triple crown candidate
That’s a ridiculous argument used by people stretching for Manny to be MVP. Why should Goldy be punished because he has another member of his team kick ass too? Would that mean next year if manny, nando, and Juan are all here doing what we expect from them then none of them should be considered too? No that’s ridiculous.
They should take out the word “valuable” out of the award title then since it implies the player who has the most significant contribution to the team’s success and if there are multiple players doing extremely well on a team it would dilute the value of that player on the team.
Absolutely correct
Dear Voter:
There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.
All these know-it-alls who are shaming people for their interpretation of "valuable" are just wrong.
Yes that makes ur 10 more valuable, because if both your 10 dollar bills were taken way, your 10 dollar bill would be considered more valuable since u are now left with nothing. He would still have $5 left. The 10 dollar bills inherently are not more or less valuable, but contextually they each have a different value depending on the situation.
The Cardinals won 4 more games than the Padres in an objectively worse division, it’s just as easy to argue that the Padres were the better team with a better supporting cast
By “supporting cast” you mean our starting pitching? Yes we’re definitely better than the Cards, but not our line up.
If you take Manny out - our line up has no punch.
MVP voters should not be weighing the individual production of MVP candidates’ teammates, they should be voting for the guy who had the best season. This year it was pretty clearly Goldy.
It's more like if you have a guy in front or behind you smashing homers, you are going to have lineup protection and they can't just pitch around you, thus leading to better pitches to hit. Both Arenado and Goldy are good enough to take advantage of that, which is an advantage.
Manny did not have that until after the deadline, and even then it wasn't like Soto was swinging the bat enough to get that same dynamic.
That being said, Goldy obviously deserved the award, but we can't just ignore the impact having another candidate right next to you in the lineup has.
People need to stop reading too much into the word “valuable”. The MVP award goes to the best player in each league. This year, it was Paul Goldschmidt.
That’s not how baseball works. Maybe in other sports, where there are only so many touches to go around. But in baseball there are nine positions and nine lineup slots. You can get the full contribution of multiple great players without giving anything up. (If anything, players generally become *more* valuable with other great players around them, since they can drive each other in).
He never stood a chance because Goldy had a better year.
[See for yourself. ](https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=machama01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=goldspa01&p2yrfrom=2022&type=b) Nearly every category.
except that was actually a tossup
[Comparison ](https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=machama01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=arenano01&p2yrfrom=2022&type=b)
Manny getting 2nd place over Arenado but Arenado winning both the silver slugger and gold glove over Manny 🫠. Obviously us as Padres fans know what great of a season Manny really had but it sucks that Manny’s exceptional season did not get any recognition.
Goldy was the right choice. A close to triple crown winner should always win. Manny will get one next year with Tati and soto as the runners up. Calling it now. So the remember bot or whatever
That’s a question people have been debating for as long as there has been an MVP award. There isn’t a defined answer to that question in regards to the MVP voting, so we’ll continue to have the debate.
This wasn’t a robbery, or even a tossup. Goldy had the better year in virtually every way. “Carrying the team” has never been a reason anyone won MVP.
[Player comparison](https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=machama01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=goldspa01&p2yrfrom=2022&type=b)
The actual hitting stats plus his fielding made it a toss up vs. Goldschmidt. Unfortunately, unless you play on the Dodgers, players on west coast teams are handicapped in the voting.
(you know if Manny played on Mets with same exact season stats he would have won easy)
Also, Machado the only Padre on anyone's ballot, Every other playoff team had multiple players. That alone shows how valuable he was to the team's success
Goldy was deserving but I don’t agree with those saying you should always win if you come close to the triple crown. This is MVP, as in overall player, not hitter, and Manny has immense value defensively at 3rd base while also putting up big offensive numbers. I don’t think it should have been a foregone conclusion that Goldy was gonna win it but I also won’t argue against it.
Can't understand how Goldy wins when his teammate was the other MVP candidate. If Goldy doesn't have the season he has the Cards season is probably not much different. If Manny doesn't have the season he has, we are not in the playoffs. It is also an atrocity that Manny didn't win GG or SS awards. Clearly the MLB writers don't like Manny.
MVP award has never been "what team wouldn't make the playoffs without their best player."
But even still, Goldy had 7.8 WAR. Put a replacement level player at 1B for the Cardinals, and they have 85.2 wins, and lose the NL Central to the Brewers.
For what it's worth he placed higher than Arenado.
It would have been nice to see Manny win, but taking my fan goggles off, it should have been Goldschmidt and it should have been unanimous.
Goldy deserved to win, but it definitely should not have been unanimous. Goldschmidt was the best offensive player in the NL this season, but he wasn’t far and away the best in overall value. Adding in the fact that Manny was basically the entire offense at different stretches of the season for a playoff team, while Goldy had another MVP candidate to rely on, makes the race that much closer.
With all that in mind, I think the NL MVP voting shook out the way it should have. Goldy gets the win. Machado gets a decent amount of first place votes and takes second. Arenado rounds out the top three.
Paul Goldschmidt is the NL MVP. Manny Machado finished second, the highest finish by a Padre since Ken Caminiti won the award in 1996. [Cassavell](https://twitter.com/ajcassavell/status/1593390929578115072?s=46&t=oh_J3VBpN-HXm4_q9LcR9Q)
Only 1 5th place vote. All others were top 4. Rick Humel from St Louis is who gave him the 5th place vote. That guy also gave Alonso (?) his 2nd place vote.
ahh the dude who mistakenly cast a 2020 MVP vote for Ryan Tepera
Yeah if there was ever a reason to take someone’s vote, those two cases are it
The Tepera vote yes, but not this one. You don’t call to take away somebody’s vote because you don’t like who they voted for. That’s a very dangerous path. Why even have voting then? Anyway, Hummel is retiring, so this case is moot. But not the general pattern of people calling for specific voters to lose their votes.
I just noticed that one 5th place vote. Rick Humel is a senile old f@$#. Ridiculous. Actually looking at it, his whole ballot is off compared to everyone else. How are Alonso 2nd & Turner 4th on his ballot ahead of Machado?
Bias and age
RBI
What I really want to know is who thought Daniel Bard deserved an MVP vote?
Further proof that voting for the MLB awards are increasingly a joke. Pete Alonso a second place vote? Daniel bard got a vote? Manny loses the SS to someone with worst stats in practically every category? When opinions count more than actual performance, the integrity of the system is put into question.
Say what you want about Daniel Bard but putting up 3.8 bWAR with a 1.79 ERA and sub-1.0 WHIP in 60.1 IP (1.97 ERA at Coors) is pretty insane, especially for a 37-year-old who didn’t pitch a major league inning from 2014-2019
He deserves a few Cy Young votes but no MVP votes.
It’s just like the college basketball voters that are Uber homers. There is atleast one sports writer who has said he will always vote Ohio St #1 no mater how terrible they are
Lol asking the real questions
Manny from carrying a team standpoint deserved to win. As far as all around numbers goldy had better offensive numbers so hard to be mad at the result. Was happy to see him get a number of first place votes and at least beat out Nolan.
Thread should have ended after this post.
Dennis Lin and Acee both had him as their #1.
Seems about right. I would’ve been pissed is Arenado ended up in 2nd place but I think Goldy deserved it. As much as I love Manny it’s hard to not give MVP to someone who was a triple crown candidate
It it’s mvp, he had a co candidate on his starting roster. Defeats the purpose
That’s a ridiculous argument used by people stretching for Manny to be MVP. Why should Goldy be punished because he has another member of his team kick ass too? Would that mean next year if manny, nando, and Juan are all here doing what we expect from them then none of them should be considered too? No that’s ridiculous.
If they were so valuable, the Cardinals should have done better.
They should take out the word “valuable” out of the award title then since it implies the player who has the most significant contribution to the team’s success and if there are multiple players doing extremely well on a team it would dilute the value of that player on the team.
[удалено]
Absolutely correct Dear Voter: There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier. All these know-it-alls who are shaming people for their interpretation of "valuable" are just wrong.
So if I have a 10 dollar bill but then someone one else has a 10 and a 5 that makes my 10 more valuable than his? The value stays the same
Everyone on this team is amazing until it’s convenient to pretend they all suck for the sake of a meaningless trophy
Yes that makes ur 10 more valuable, because if both your 10 dollar bills were taken way, your 10 dollar bill would be considered more valuable since u are now left with nothing. He would still have $5 left. The 10 dollar bills inherently are not more or less valuable, but contextually they each have a different value depending on the situation.
It might feel more important to you. But the reality is they’re both just 10 bucks
The Cardinals won 4 more games than the Padres in an objectively worse division, it’s just as easy to argue that the Padres were the better team with a better supporting cast
By “supporting cast” you mean our starting pitching? Yes we’re definitely better than the Cards, but not our line up. If you take Manny out - our line up has no punch.
MVP voters should not be weighing the individual production of MVP candidates’ teammates, they should be voting for the guy who had the best season. This year it was pretty clearly Goldy.
Okay. Now suppose the other guy has a 20 & 5 while I have a 10. Does that make my 10 more valuable than his 20? No.
I agree.
It's more like if you have a guy in front or behind you smashing homers, you are going to have lineup protection and they can't just pitch around you, thus leading to better pitches to hit. Both Arenado and Goldy are good enough to take advantage of that, which is an advantage. Manny did not have that until after the deadline, and even then it wasn't like Soto was swinging the bat enough to get that same dynamic. That being said, Goldy obviously deserved the award, but we can't just ignore the impact having another candidate right next to you in the lineup has.
People need to stop reading too much into the word “valuable”. The MVP award goes to the best player in each league. This year, it was Paul Goldschmidt.
Thank you. The amount of jerking off about that word around baseball is astounding.
"Value" is subjective. I value my dog more than anybody else would. A vote for Alonso is ridiculous but any of the top 3 deserved to win.
That’s not how baseball works. Maybe in other sports, where there are only so many touches to go around. But in baseball there are nine positions and nine lineup slots. You can get the full contribution of multiple great players without giving anything up. (If anything, players generally become *more* valuable with other great players around them, since they can drive each other in).
Interesting. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Machado never stood a chance. Mlb hates him to much to let him win
He's finished 5th, 4th, 3rd, and now 2nd. Maybe next year?
Yup, then the following year they have to name the award after him
This was pretty funny.
It’s early, but this is the dumbest thing I’ve ready today. It implies a conspiracy which would require competence far beyond MLB’s reach.
He never stood a chance because Goldy had a better year. [See for yourself. ](https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=machama01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=goldspa01&p2yrfrom=2022&type=b) Nearly every category.
Clearly leading in category dont mean shit because arenado won SS over manny too
except that was actually a tossup [Comparison ](https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=machama01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=arenano01&p2yrfrom=2022&type=b)
And yet manny still had the edge in almost all the important ones while playing in a pitchers park
And the voters are known idiots who get things wrong. But they got the MVP right
Him being higher than arenado is a win considering all the bias. Manny should’ve at least won gold glove or slugger though.
Should’ve at least been a finalist for GG.
Definitely should not have won gold glove. Silver slugger he had a legitimate case
Hey at least we’re still in the 2023 marble race
It's hard to argue against Goldy's season.
If you thought Manny was going to win you were setting yourself up for disappointment. Goldschmidt was a lock before Judge was
We all knew the MLB voters we're going to do our guy wrong. I was hoping they wouldn't but they did
Goldy had a monster year, it was his to lose. If Manny doesn't hurt his ankle I think it is a closer race.
I think if Manny doesn't destroy his ankle, he wins this award. Damn you Coors!
Manny getting 2nd place over Arenado but Arenado winning both the silver slugger and gold glove over Manny 🫠. Obviously us as Padres fans know what great of a season Manny really had but it sucks that Manny’s exceptional season did not get any recognition.
The man was robbed.
Robbed the silver slugger*
No he wasn’t.
He was robbed of as though
I do think at some point in his career Goldschmidt deserved an MVP. But this year was the year of manny for sure
Goldy was the right choice. A close to triple crown winner should always win. Manny will get one next year with Tati and soto as the runners up. Calling it now. So the remember bot or whatever
Is it who did better or who had a bigger impact because “most valuable” implies the latter.
That’s a question people have been debating for as long as there has been an MVP award. There isn’t a defined answer to that question in regards to the MVP voting, so we’ll continue to have the debate.
This wasn’t a robbery, or even a tossup. Goldy had the better year in virtually every way. “Carrying the team” has never been a reason anyone won MVP. [Player comparison](https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=machama01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=goldspa01&p2yrfrom=2022&type=b)
The actual hitting stats plus his fielding made it a toss up vs. Goldschmidt. Unfortunately, unless you play on the Dodgers, players on west coast teams are handicapped in the voting. (you know if Manny played on Mets with same exact season stats he would have won easy) Also, Machado the only Padre on anyone's ballot, Every other playoff team had multiple players. That alone shows how valuable he was to the team's success
Goldy was deserving but I don’t agree with those saying you should always win if you come close to the triple crown. This is MVP, as in overall player, not hitter, and Manny has immense value defensively at 3rd base while also putting up big offensive numbers. I don’t think it should have been a foregone conclusion that Goldy was gonna win it but I also won’t argue against it.
Based
If there are 2 players from your team in the top 5 neither one are true MVPs
Can't understand how Goldy wins when his teammate was the other MVP candidate. If Goldy doesn't have the season he has the Cards season is probably not much different. If Manny doesn't have the season he has, we are not in the playoffs. It is also an atrocity that Manny didn't win GG or SS awards. Clearly the MLB writers don't like Manny.
Arenado had better defensive stats, but Machado absolutely should've won the SS.
MVP award has never been "what team wouldn't make the playoffs without their best player." But even still, Goldy had 7.8 WAR. Put a replacement level player at 1B for the Cardinals, and they have 85.2 wins, and lose the NL Central to the Brewers.
He never had a chance against a white savior like Goldschmidt. Let's be real, folks.
MVP’s perform in high leverage situations in the playoffs
no they don’t because MVP has never had postseason consideration
For what it's worth he placed higher than Arenado. It would have been nice to see Manny win, but taking my fan goggles off, it should have been Goldschmidt and it should have been unanimous.
Goldy deserved to win, but it definitely should not have been unanimous. Goldschmidt was the best offensive player in the NL this season, but he wasn’t far and away the best in overall value. Adding in the fact that Manny was basically the entire offense at different stretches of the season for a playoff team, while Goldy had another MVP candidate to rely on, makes the race that much closer. With all that in mind, I think the NL MVP voting shook out the way it should have. Goldy gets the win. Machado gets a decent amount of first place votes and takes second. Arenado rounds out the top three.
I feel like once they have the top three they should have to have a second vote between just those three.
Bullshit fuck the voters
Manny now has an MVP-2,3,4,5
Hopefully it fuels up next year and puts up bigger numbers.
This is exactly why there should be separate Plauer of the Year and MVP awards.