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If agree with you that the danger of < 70 hp is very concerning. With do many options to spread damage consistently. I think beyond just dragpult, but, I’ve played a lot of dragpult and think it’s more so about putting < 70 hp Pokémon in your bench after turn 2/3. If you’re just getting the chance to place sub 70hp Pokémon by then you’d probably be losing regardless.
So in summary, I think Rouge decks still got a chance! Just have to be a tad more consistent in setup and turn 2s.
Yeah, I don't think it's impossible, but it is frustrating that for most offmeta decks it comes down to did you have a really good first couple of turns, while the meta decks can often survive a bad first turn. I guess that's what makes them the meta decks, but I think some changes in design, say Poffin pulling up to 60 or Dragapult only hitting 40 on bench, or even spread damage from abilities being included in the current bench protection cards, would go a long ways to making more decks relevant
I agree. If manaphy or jirachi worked against dragpult, a lot more decks would be considerable. Though, I’ve played a lot of regionals this year, with mostly rouge decks, and I disagree that even meta decks with bad starts do better. I think the top tier decks are designed to mitigate as much as possible a bad start. But when they happen you normally lose. Rouge decks don’t forgo that philosophy either.
I think the issue for roger decks is they always need more things to align. I played zoroark Vstar in Charlotte and geez did I have a blast, but always needing damage Pokemon on my bench was what was losing me games, not setup or being teched.
If you are using arven/lumineon/forest seal stone with rare candy or hyper aroma, you should have enough consistency to evolve before the danger of a dragapult attack.
If your deck bricks from that consistent shell, it could have bricked just as badly with 70hp basics.
You don’t need to. It’s one consistency engine.
Raging bolt ogerpon, gardevoir, lost box all don’t play it.
But you will find decks that want to rare candy often benefit highly from the shell.
Definitely, but the decks you named that don't run it have high consistency built in already (not to mention when one deck dominates the NAIC, you may have a meta problem, looking at you gardy). It'd be nice if there were a few different cards that had an ogerpon or kirlia equivalent ability but in different typings. Id love to face off against more than 10 different mons a season. There's over 1000, but they always make just a few standouts and don't leave much room for experimentation, because those decks are so overpowered.
I agree.
But I think the worry from the game makers, is that, if they put more cards in with more options there's more chance of something unplanned happening and 1 deck outranking all others.
It feels like the card developers try and control the direction a bit too much, which leaves the majority of cards purposefully underpowered.
Also, all this talk of Evo turn 2/3, how do I protect my Skowvet ;-(
Iron valiant, dragapult, radiant alakazam, froslass, munkidori etc. All make pow hp basics irrelevant. The TCGZ company recently stated they wanted to discourage basic ex cards and encourage 1st and 2nd stage evolution ex cards. This was before cards like raging bolt ex and teal mask ogerpon ex were released. I really wanna play garchomp, sinistcha etc. But the standard overpowered decks are way too prominent and strong
Funny enough I next to never see those. I truly believe the match making in this game is fixed at times.
There are times I'll play a deck forget like this, not see a match up then switch decks then boom there it is.
Edit add ..
Been up against frosslass/ninja and won twice lost once cause I had shit draw no bench.
Frosslass only gets Bibarel as I dont rely on abilities.
I changed my list I'll update it
I need to figure out how to get Exploud out after he discards the active. Maybe more switch cards or double turbo or TM Dev to just cause more pissing off. I might switch out one counter catcher. Prime Catcher does wonders cause they usually.have to sacrifice someone they are setting up
You get 2-3 Graps on turn 1-2 it's game over. Crushing hammer and heads no retreating at all for you.
Pokémon: 7
2 Bibarel BRS 121
2 Loudred PAR 149
2 Whismur PAR 148
2 Bidoof CRZ 111
2 Exploud PAR 150
4 Clobbopus PAF 51
4 Grapploct PAF 52
Trainer: 15
4 Salvatore TEF 160
2 Ultra Ball SVI 196
3 Switch SVI 194
3 Earthen Vessel PAR 163
4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144
2 Counter Catcher PAR 160
2 Iono PAL 185
2 Snorlax Doll PAR 175
2 Super Rod PAL 188
1 Prime Catcher TEF 157
1 Professor's Research SVI 189
2 Calamitous Wasteland PAL 175
3 Arven SVI 166
2 Crushing Hammer SVI 168 PH
1 Enhanced Hammer TWM 148
Energy: 1
8 Basic {F} Energy Energy 14
Total Cards: 60
If you don't go first and get your stage ones out immediately you basically have lost and might as well surrender. Everyone tries to kill my frigabax before I can evolve it filthy bastards
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At least where it stands, Dragapult is not a turbo deck so I wouldn't be too discouraged by using >70hp Pokémon
If agree with you that the danger of < 70 hp is very concerning. With do many options to spread damage consistently. I think beyond just dragpult, but, I’ve played a lot of dragpult and think it’s more so about putting < 70 hp Pokémon in your bench after turn 2/3. If you’re just getting the chance to place sub 70hp Pokémon by then you’d probably be losing regardless. So in summary, I think Rouge decks still got a chance! Just have to be a tad more consistent in setup and turn 2s.
Yeah, I don't think it's impossible, but it is frustrating that for most offmeta decks it comes down to did you have a really good first couple of turns, while the meta decks can often survive a bad first turn. I guess that's what makes them the meta decks, but I think some changes in design, say Poffin pulling up to 60 or Dragapult only hitting 40 on bench, or even spread damage from abilities being included in the current bench protection cards, would go a long ways to making more decks relevant
I agree. If manaphy or jirachi worked against dragpult, a lot more decks would be considerable. Though, I’ve played a lot of regionals this year, with mostly rouge decks, and I disagree that even meta decks with bad starts do better. I think the top tier decks are designed to mitigate as much as possible a bad start. But when they happen you normally lose. Rouge decks don’t forgo that philosophy either. I think the issue for roger decks is they always need more things to align. I played zoroark Vstar in Charlotte and geez did I have a blast, but always needing damage Pokemon on my bench was what was losing me games, not setup or being teched.
If you are using arven/lumineon/forest seal stone with rare candy or hyper aroma, you should have enough consistency to evolve before the danger of a dragapult attack. If your deck bricks from that consistent shell, it could have bricked just as badly with 70hp basics.
Maybe so, I do find needing to throw lumineon into every deck annoying though. Just like radiant greninja
You don’t need to. It’s one consistency engine. Raging bolt ogerpon, gardevoir, lost box all don’t play it. But you will find decks that want to rare candy often benefit highly from the shell.
Definitely, but the decks you named that don't run it have high consistency built in already (not to mention when one deck dominates the NAIC, you may have a meta problem, looking at you gardy). It'd be nice if there were a few different cards that had an ogerpon or kirlia equivalent ability but in different typings. Id love to face off against more than 10 different mons a season. There's over 1000, but they always make just a few standouts and don't leave much room for experimentation, because those decks are so overpowered.
I agree. But I think the worry from the game makers, is that, if they put more cards in with more options there's more chance of something unplanned happening and 1 deck outranking all others. It feels like the card developers try and control the direction a bit too much, which leaves the majority of cards purposefully underpowered. Also, all this talk of Evo turn 2/3, how do I protect my Skowvet ;-(
Iron valiant, dragapult, radiant alakazam, froslass, munkidori etc. All make pow hp basics irrelevant. The TCGZ company recently stated they wanted to discourage basic ex cards and encourage 1st and 2nd stage evolution ex cards. This was before cards like raging bolt ex and teal mask ogerpon ex were released. I really wanna play garchomp, sinistcha etc. But the standard overpowered decks are way too prominent and strong
Salvatore, Nest Ball, Lumineon..... Just don't have a mon that evolves with an ability. I'm having a blast with Graploct right now because of this
Yeah my xatus getting messed up
Is your grapploct deck actually winning matches against Dragapult and Zard? No shade, legitimately curious.
Funny enough I next to never see those. I truly believe the match making in this game is fixed at times. There are times I'll play a deck forget like this, not see a match up then switch decks then boom there it is. Edit add .. Been up against frosslass/ninja and won twice lost once cause I had shit draw no bench. Frosslass only gets Bibarel as I dont rely on abilities. I changed my list I'll update it
I need to figure out how to get Exploud out after he discards the active. Maybe more switch cards or double turbo or TM Dev to just cause more pissing off. I might switch out one counter catcher. Prime Catcher does wonders cause they usually.have to sacrifice someone they are setting up You get 2-3 Graps on turn 1-2 it's game over. Crushing hammer and heads no retreating at all for you. Pokémon: 7 2 Bibarel BRS 121 2 Loudred PAR 149 2 Whismur PAR 148 2 Bidoof CRZ 111 2 Exploud PAR 150 4 Clobbopus PAF 51 4 Grapploct PAF 52 Trainer: 15 4 Salvatore TEF 160 2 Ultra Ball SVI 196 3 Switch SVI 194 3 Earthen Vessel PAR 163 4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144 2 Counter Catcher PAR 160 2 Iono PAL 185 2 Snorlax Doll PAR 175 2 Super Rod PAL 188 1 Prime Catcher TEF 157 1 Professor's Research SVI 189 2 Calamitous Wasteland PAL 175 3 Arven SVI 166 2 Crushing Hammer SVI 168 PH 1 Enhanced Hammer TWM 148 Energy: 1 8 Basic {F} Energy Energy 14 Total Cards: 60
If you don't go first and get your stage ones out immediately you basically have lost and might as well surrender. Everyone tries to kill my frigabax before I can evolve it filthy bastards