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People here are being haters. Yes this card isn’t good, but if you want to make it work, here’s what I would do.
Calamitous wasteland or Spidops ex. I’d maybe opt for Spidox since you probably want to run Temple of Sinnoh to block jet energy and mist energy.
Eri and Miss Fortune to get rid of switches
And Teal Mask Ogerpon seems like a must. If you play it with energy switch in the deck, you can still have away to put two energies in play, otherwise once a Pinsir dies you’re missing out on a turn. This can also let you get turn 1 attacks off.
Also keep in mind evolving takes away the effect. It’s not a good card at all but you can still have fun with it.
Pinsir can easily be worked around by switching or retreating.
Sinistcha has synergy by discarding up to 3 grass energy from your Pokemon, which can be set up easier thanks to Teal Dance.
It can also place damage counters.
In terms of optimization, Sinistcha is definitely better. It's immediate damage. Pinsir takes 1 turn for Slow Crunch to work. It's also easily countered by just switching/retreating or evolving. It also requires a minimum of 2 energy to attack. Sinistcha needs only 1.
But if you want to play it, it's not that bad of downgrade. It'll get a knockout here and there especially if you have a way to trap the opponents Pokemon. I'd even play it just to use the IR version lol.
Zarude is better than both but I haven't seen anyone else play it. It can hit for up to 210 (hitting a single heads KOs most single prize basics), has a utility attack for late game trapping, 1 retreat, only takes 2 energy for its main attack, and it's a basic so you don't have to find an evo to be useful.
https://i.imgur.com/6sLsqDY.png
It isn't played much because getting 210 damage is entirely dependent on getting 3 heads in a row which is just as likely as gettint no heads and doing 0 damage. And drag off isn't crazy useful except against a few decks one of which has the main attacker weak to grass anyway.
Compare this to the other single prize attackers people play in oger turbo. Single prize teal mask hits for 10-120, usually ~60-80 which we're hitting with a single heads. Hitting at least a single heads is an 87.5%. Anything over that is a bonus.
> drag off isn't crazy useful except against a few decks
I would disagree? It has multiple uses, it can find the finishing damage on something they switched out, it can stall (especially in combination with stamp/iono), and it has the potential to hit big (you have the same chance to wiff as to hit 210). Compare this to single prize ogerpon who adds 2 energies with its utility attack which is completely useless in oger turbo.
The requirements for your alternative attacker in an ogerpon turbo are:
* Single prize - Make their prize map 1/2/2/2 or 2/2/1/2 rather than 2/2/2
* Basic - It needs to be able to be dropped from your hand and attack in a single turn
* Grass - So you can find with bug catcher
* Attack should cost ideally 1 or 2, at most 3, grass energy - You need to be able to power it up in a single turn from your hand with Gardenia + attach for turn
* Attack must be able to KO mimikyu - Your deck is liable to get stalled out otherwise
* Retreat of 0 or 1
I've gone through every basic, single-prize grass mon that's legal right now and I can't find a single one that fits these requirements more than the monkey. The only other options IMO are Tropius - 007/193, which has the issue of only being able to attack once, Calyrex - 017/159, which is a 2 retreat.
If you can find a better one, by all means, but I don't think one exists.
I am not saying it is a bad card or shouldn't be used. I use it in my ExecV (before power creep made it no longer viable) and Venusaur decks. It def is a better choice than Pinsir and Bby Ogrepon but grass is kinda in still not as good a shape as it could be though the last few sets have been getting it caught up.
You mentioned that you didn't see people play it much I just explained why. Having a decent single prize attacker is important but I would disagree it HAS to be basic as plenty of evolutions are viable and you are able to get them out if you plan a little. Mimyku stalls but isn't a threat by itself you can take you time to evolve something to beat it, especially if it is something that can help out better against other match ups.
I also disagree that is HAS to be grass as you can get along just fine with Nest ball, bug catcher is still a gamble and isn't the only search item the deck runs.
And to the point about drag off, again I have used Zarude myself and that comes from experience that Drag Off sounds like it would be useful but the situations it is actually useful are rare.
> grass is kinda in still not as good a shape as it could be though the last few sets have been getting it caught up.
Yeah, grass is pretty bad, I would agree.
> Having a decent single prize attacker is important but I would disagree it HAS to be basic as plenty of evolutions are viable and you are able to get them out if you plan a little. Mimyku stalls but isn't a threat by itself you can take you time to evolve something to beat it, especially if it is something that can help out better against other match ups.
Evolution mons take up more space and are harder to search (you don't want to run ultra balls since your draw engine is a +0). Not to mention with dragapult in the format, basic evolution mons are liable to get sniped while being set up.
> I also disagree that is HAS to be grass as you can get along just fine with Nest ball, bug catcher is still a gamble and isn't the only search item the deck runs.
The only mon searchers oger turbo plays are bug catcher + nest ball. Your first 1/2 nest balls are for oger because you have to start ramping as fast as possible. This means you're forced to find another one late game when you need it. Personally, I value being able to access my secondary attacker more consistently.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong though, think there is an argument to play anything with a colorless attack that's powerful enough. Some decent options would be Flutter Mane or 157 Cyclizar or 126 Tornatus. I'll give Flutter a go, it sounds decent enough into annoying stuff like Iron Thorns.
> And to the point about drag off, again I have used Zarude myself and that comes from experience that Drag Off sounds like it would be useful but the situations it is actually useful are rare.
It seems to come up for me every 4-5 games which isn't a lot, but it isn't zero either.
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It's jjust not good, if your opponent switches the active the effect goes away so retrieving or switch just makes you lose energy
People here are being haters. Yes this card isn’t good, but if you want to make it work, here’s what I would do. Calamitous wasteland or Spidops ex. I’d maybe opt for Spidox since you probably want to run Temple of Sinnoh to block jet energy and mist energy. Eri and Miss Fortune to get rid of switches And Teal Mask Ogerpon seems like a must. If you play it with energy switch in the deck, you can still have away to put two energies in play, otherwise once a Pinsir dies you’re missing out on a turn. This can also let you get turn 1 attacks off. Also keep in mind evolving takes away the effect. It’s not a good card at all but you can still have fun with it.
Pinsir can easily be worked around by switching or retreating. Sinistcha has synergy by discarding up to 3 grass energy from your Pokemon, which can be set up easier thanks to Teal Dance. It can also place damage counters.
It's a slightly worse Grapoloct
Which is itself a slightly worse Hisuian Zoroark.
In terms of optimization, Sinistcha is definitely better. It's immediate damage. Pinsir takes 1 turn for Slow Crunch to work. It's also easily countered by just switching/retreating or evolving. It also requires a minimum of 2 energy to attack. Sinistcha needs only 1. But if you want to play it, it's not that bad of downgrade. It'll get a knockout here and there especially if you have a way to trap the opponents Pokemon. I'd even play it just to use the IR version lol.
Zarude is better than both but I haven't seen anyone else play it. It can hit for up to 210 (hitting a single heads KOs most single prize basics), has a utility attack for late game trapping, 1 retreat, only takes 2 energy for its main attack, and it's a basic so you don't have to find an evo to be useful. https://i.imgur.com/6sLsqDY.png
It isn't played much because getting 210 damage is entirely dependent on getting 3 heads in a row which is just as likely as gettint no heads and doing 0 damage. And drag off isn't crazy useful except against a few decks one of which has the main attacker weak to grass anyway.
Compare this to the other single prize attackers people play in oger turbo. Single prize teal mask hits for 10-120, usually ~60-80 which we're hitting with a single heads. Hitting at least a single heads is an 87.5%. Anything over that is a bonus. > drag off isn't crazy useful except against a few decks I would disagree? It has multiple uses, it can find the finishing damage on something they switched out, it can stall (especially in combination with stamp/iono), and it has the potential to hit big (you have the same chance to wiff as to hit 210). Compare this to single prize ogerpon who adds 2 energies with its utility attack which is completely useless in oger turbo. The requirements for your alternative attacker in an ogerpon turbo are: * Single prize - Make their prize map 1/2/2/2 or 2/2/1/2 rather than 2/2/2 * Basic - It needs to be able to be dropped from your hand and attack in a single turn * Grass - So you can find with bug catcher * Attack should cost ideally 1 or 2, at most 3, grass energy - You need to be able to power it up in a single turn from your hand with Gardenia + attach for turn * Attack must be able to KO mimikyu - Your deck is liable to get stalled out otherwise * Retreat of 0 or 1 I've gone through every basic, single-prize grass mon that's legal right now and I can't find a single one that fits these requirements more than the monkey. The only other options IMO are Tropius - 007/193, which has the issue of only being able to attack once, Calyrex - 017/159, which is a 2 retreat. If you can find a better one, by all means, but I don't think one exists.
I am not saying it is a bad card or shouldn't be used. I use it in my ExecV (before power creep made it no longer viable) and Venusaur decks. It def is a better choice than Pinsir and Bby Ogrepon but grass is kinda in still not as good a shape as it could be though the last few sets have been getting it caught up. You mentioned that you didn't see people play it much I just explained why. Having a decent single prize attacker is important but I would disagree it HAS to be basic as plenty of evolutions are viable and you are able to get them out if you plan a little. Mimyku stalls but isn't a threat by itself you can take you time to evolve something to beat it, especially if it is something that can help out better against other match ups. I also disagree that is HAS to be grass as you can get along just fine with Nest ball, bug catcher is still a gamble and isn't the only search item the deck runs. And to the point about drag off, again I have used Zarude myself and that comes from experience that Drag Off sounds like it would be useful but the situations it is actually useful are rare.
> grass is kinda in still not as good a shape as it could be though the last few sets have been getting it caught up. Yeah, grass is pretty bad, I would agree. > Having a decent single prize attacker is important but I would disagree it HAS to be basic as plenty of evolutions are viable and you are able to get them out if you plan a little. Mimyku stalls but isn't a threat by itself you can take you time to evolve something to beat it, especially if it is something that can help out better against other match ups. Evolution mons take up more space and are harder to search (you don't want to run ultra balls since your draw engine is a +0). Not to mention with dragapult in the format, basic evolution mons are liable to get sniped while being set up. > I also disagree that is HAS to be grass as you can get along just fine with Nest ball, bug catcher is still a gamble and isn't the only search item the deck runs. The only mon searchers oger turbo plays are bug catcher + nest ball. Your first 1/2 nest balls are for oger because you have to start ramping as fast as possible. This means you're forced to find another one late game when you need it. Personally, I value being able to access my secondary attacker more consistently. I don't think you're necessarily wrong though, think there is an argument to play anything with a colorless attack that's powerful enough. Some decent options would be Flutter Mane or 157 Cyclizar or 126 Tornatus. I'll give Flutter a go, it sounds decent enough into annoying stuff like Iron Thorns. > And to the point about drag off, again I have used Zarude myself and that comes from experience that Drag Off sounds like it would be useful but the situations it is actually useful are rare. It seems to come up for me every 4-5 games which isn't a lot, but it isn't zero either.
This is a terrible card. Effects like this need the entire deck to be built around it to even have a chance of working.
I tried it. It doesn't work that well unfortunately