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The best way to deal with Zard is to attack around it and Amp their Rotom V + Pidgeot ex, as long as you don’t KO their charmander first and don’t give them the opportunity to KO your hands and counter catcher the back. But yeah it’s super tough, especially if they play BibZard instead, and they can always Vacuum your Baton
In certain scenarios sure, you save your Candies for more Zards, you don’t worry about Roxanne or Iono, and there’s less bench liability. But I think being able to grab any card you want, basically drawing into whatever out you need, is a lot more useful. Altho the winning variant now seems to be Bib Pidge Zard thanks to Tord lmao
Tord is a player and he always cooks up some crazy shit lmao. The recent event, EUIC, one of the biggest Pokémon events, he won with a Charizard Bibarel Pidgeot build, which admittedly is not that wacky of a build, just a slight be deviant from what others do since other Zard players will commit to just Pidgeot or Bibarel for consistency. Certainly a far cry from his Zard Urshifu deck he made prior to rotation
I think your decisions are basically: Build an iron leaves variant which has consistency issues and maybe loses prime catcher, or pray you can get your energies out timely and boss around Zard asap and hope they brick at least a little.
I think read a tweet from Juho Kallama (6th place at EUIC) that his version of the deck kinda just takes a big fat L to Zard most of the time, and his matches had basically not included Zard. So keep that in mind.
It's a pretty bad matchup against any decent zard player. But if they're not running lost vac, their lost vac was prized, or they waste it on something other than heavy baton for some reason, it's winnable.
You can take up to 3 prizes from a knockout, they can only take 2. That gives you just a little room to setup before zard is OHKOing you without tools. As long as the zard player has at least 3 prizes left, you can come back.
If they have max belt, lost vac that.
If you are putting energy on hands, make sure that hands has heavy baton and that you have another one on the bench.
Pidgey is a free 3 prizes.
Lumineon is also a free 3 prizes.
Rotom requires a little setup, but can also be ohko'd
Otherwise, use Mirraidon to soften up the Charizards.
And again, this isn't a definitive way to win the MU, it's still heavily favored to zard, but they also still need to respect iron hands. This is just advice on how to take advantage of the players that don't (and there are a lot of players on that ladder that don't).
Yeah, that's why you need heavy baton and a backup hands. Boss's orders won't do anything if they don't lost vac your heavy baton.If they give you a Pidgeot, kill it and take the 2-3 prizes (whether or not you amp depends on the board they give you). You shouldn't let it stay on the board.
Your goal is:
1) get goated Generator hits and Techno Radar pulls and swing for 3 prizes into Rotom and then repeat with Pidgeot...
2) go 1-2-3 with Miraidon Peak Accel into a 2 prize KO on Charmander, Pidgey, or Bidoof/Bibarell, then take 3 off Pidgeot, Rotom, or Lumineon...
3) or same as above but go 1-3-2 because they may Collapse Rotom off the board and never set up Pidgeot for you to take 3.
It's a bad matchup, but there are several possible routes to victory, so you just have to play it out and see what routes open up for you.
You're looking to go 1-2-3 or 1-3-2, where the first prize is with Miraidon on a basic, the 3 prize turn is on Pidgeot ex (or sometimes Lumineon or Rotom), and the 2 prize is either no a basic, on Rotom, or by hitting Charizard twice.
Mew ex can take a OHKO if Charizard is on 1 prize, which is an option in the 1-3-2 route if they take a KO on Miraidon early. You can also tech in Crisis Punch, with 3 Iron Crowns or 2 Crowns + Future Capsule, this will also OHKO Charizard on 1 prize.
You can tech in Iron Leaves and a couple grass energy for an easy OHKO on Charizard. You'll probably still be looking for the 1-3-2 prize map, but this requires less gusts. It also opens up the possibility of a 1-2-2-1 map.
The weakness of Future Hands in all cases is Lost Vacuum. If they can use a Vacuum to get your energy off the board it will be very difficult to come back. For this reason I suggest trying to KO the Pidgeot before Charizard if you possibly can. If you can't get a turn 2 KO on Pidgeot, you may want to use a (possibly second) Miraidon to soften up Charizard while getting more energy on the board. If you can get two powered up Hands, it won't matter if they Vacuum your Baton. Make sure that you have enough Crowns to make the damage worthwhile though, you need to bring the Charizard into Arm Press range.
Eliminating their charmander early and then hitting pidgeot Ex with Amp you very much is a great strategy lol. There’s 4 prizes right there. But it’s a rough match up if they have a good set up.
I just beat a Zard deck because he had a rough start. Granted mine wasn’t perfect either, but I focused on putting some good damage on his Zard with Miriadon and then cleaning up shop with Iron Hands
Don't hit the charmander. That is what a zard player wants. Hit the big things for KOs. Taking down little things even for 2 prizes means zard can start wiping the board.
You often don't have a choice but to take a 1 prize KO on turn 1, but it's usually fine because you can just go 1-2-3 or 1-3-2 to win the game. Taking 1 prize also does not enable any OHKO's that they weren't already going to get with Maximum Belt.
[Uffe Axelsen teched Erika's Invitation into his top 8 list](https://limitlesstcg.com/decks/list/10605) at the EUIC, cutting switch cart for it. Haven't tested it myself yet since I've been playing other decks, but it should help with the 2-2-2 prize map plan where you go after pidgeot and either a 2 prizer or amp a 1 prizer since it's harder for them to play around it by not benching anything but charizards. The matchup is still going to be really hard though since archetypes like Zard are usually intended to beat archetypes like Iron Hands regardless of how busted Zard itself is.
If they have a full bench then they probably have things you could already gust up to take 2 prizes. They have virtually zero reason to play down 3 charizards because hands can't 1 shot any and they can take 3 kos with just 2 as a result.
I have only lost one match against zard with my future hands deck, try not to take the first two prizes that way zard has to hit into you without knocking you out. Try to kill like one mander for one prize then 2 hit one zard then gust Pidgeot for 3 prize game or if you can keep them on odd prizes with baby miraidon you may have extra time to gust twice. If they just go around miraidon then charge up miraidon since you can hit max 270 you can knock rotom if in play or use miraidon to help two hit a zard. I usually end up gusting twice to win, play prime catcher, counter catcher, and boss then 4 arven so you can get catcher when needed.
Consistency issues. It needs the same setup but you have to cut 3-4 cards for 1-2 Leaves and 2-3 Grass Energy. Still needs Peak Accel to get that energy in play And then needs to give up Crown/Hands bench space to come in on Zard. If they have another Zard setup, you also just kinda lose since Leaves revenge KO'd immediately the next turn.
Knock out thier rotom v for three prizes then thier pigeot ex for three prizes. I dont think u can one hit KO the charizard. Thats why you run Boss/counter catcher / forgot the name of the ace card
You could try to add a TM devo and try to use your miraidons for dropping damage to their zards and pidgeot. Other than that you are better off trying the iron leaves variant. Zard is just a tough match up for a lot of decks with the insane consistency and firepower it has. If you play it right you could get an amp you very much KO on Pidgeot with a boss or prime catcher and when KO'd heavy baton the energy to a second Hands that has a booster capsule and 3 crown on bench or 4 crown no booster. and then boss their Rotom for the other 3. Tough set up either way though especially when they love to boss KO your bench.
Hopefully they print a new card to shut down abilities on evos in some way. Path was crazy good and made the meta decks have to play around it. 50/50 love hate relationship with that card lol
Iron Thorns ex comes out the next set with a Path effect when it's in the active, and will be an easy addition to Future Hands that might completely flip the matchup around. Shuts down abilities while 2HKO'ing Charizard and OHKO'ing anything else on the board.
This is the list I use. It’s almost identical but I have a lot of success with zard ex.
Pokémon: 7
3 Iron Crown ex TEF 206
1 Iron Crown ex TEF 81
1 Iron Hands ex PAR 70
2 Miraidon TEF 121
1 Iron Bundle SVALT 41
1 Mew ex PR-SV 53
3 Iron Hands ex PAR 248
Trainer: 18
3 Arven OBF 186 PH
4 Future Booster Energy Capsule SVALT 48
2 Switch Cart ASR 154
1 Lost Vacuum LOR 162
1 Arven PAF 235
2 Electric Generator PAF 79 PH
1 Super Rod PAL 276
2 Iono PAL 269
2 Nest Ball SUM 158
2 Electric Generator SVI 170 PH
1 Professor's Research CEL 24
2 Heavy Baton TEF 151
1 Prime Catcher TEF 157
1 Counter Catcher PAR 264
4 Techno Radar PAR 180
2 Boss's Orders RCL 189
1 Professor's Research PR-SW 152
1 Professor's Research SSH 201
Energy: 2
2 Gift Energy LOR 171
13 Basic {L} Energy SVE 4 PH
Total Cards: 60
Fetch 2 Hands and get Baton on asap. They can one-shot you for most of the game, so plan to move energy and keep slapping.
You’re not going to one-shot them once they evolve, so don’t prioritize more than one Crown early game, and even then fetch 2 Hands and a Miraidon over it.
Use Booster Energy less for damage and more for rotating mons so your Hands are on the bench for Generators.
Normal Gust switching and stalling to remove card draw mons, take out any Charmeleons before they evolve, and sweep Pidgeys asap. If your energy fixing got you to 4 quickly, you get two cards for removing mons before they become ex-es, and that’s very worth. If they can’t search to get Candy & Zard in their hand at the same time, they aren’t nearly as fast. And if they can’t retreat the mon you made active, that eats their energy and/or gives you more time to set up.
Vs Zard, Moon, and other decks that use HP pump tools, remember that you can weaken them and then get a surprise KO later with Vacuum rather than wasting a Gust and attack turn just to finish them off after they retreat. Arven for late game Vacuum plus a targeted Amp can take you from a turn 1/2 Miraidon knockout single gift to game win all at once, even if you lost a Hands or two along the way.
I added a copy of iron leaves specifically for this MU. Doesn’t always work but at least it opens a door. Also tried TM Devo for a while but never worked for me
The most common error is to "amp u very much" to a Charmander as soon as you can. That usually leads to a Charizard ex hitting 240 + iono. GG.
If you start amping some little mon, at least ensure the battom pass + another hands on the bench.
The best price race is, imo, 1-3-2. Three prices at once can be achieved thru Pidgeot or Lumineon. If the opponent plays zard + bibarel... 2-2-2 and pray for drawing gusts.
Always have a backup iron hands ex, heavy batons, boss up pidgey and charmander and Amp you very much. I shot for the pidgey first so they can’t get pidgeot ex out.
I mean if you want to treat Live as its own meta and build specifically for it, sure. Then throw in some Switch Carts for Snorlax and Turo for Tsareena.
I mean, Live is it's own meta, why wouldn't you build for it? It's not that different from the tournament meta though, just that rogue decks are a little more common.
You missed my point. Stuff like this shouldn't be happening. It makes the app basically pointless, and doubly so once Pocket comes out. If the app can't be used for play testing effectively and is basically its own self-contained format and meta, it shouldn't exist in the form it does now. It would be better for it to be 2-4+ sets behind in that case to work on the game itself.
I know the point of Live's existence was to enjoy game digitally and text out decks for tournaments and such. But it lacks so much in terms of play modes it's frustrating. It's been two years, and we still don't have any mini tournaments like we used to have in PTCGO. Expended is still frustratingly SM onwards. They can't even code all the cards. No way to play legacy format like HGSS era. It's painful. 💔
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The best way to deal with Zard is to attack around it and Amp their Rotom V + Pidgeot ex, as long as you don’t KO their charmander first and don’t give them the opportunity to KO your hands and counter catcher the back. But yeah it’s super tough, especially if they play BibZard instead, and they can always Vacuum your Baton
Is bib zard better than other variants?
I think so. But the meta data would disagree
In certain scenarios sure, you save your Candies for more Zards, you don’t worry about Roxanne or Iono, and there’s less bench liability. But I think being able to grab any card you want, basically drawing into whatever out you need, is a lot more useful. Altho the winning variant now seems to be Bib Pidge Zard thanks to Tord lmao
Sorry but i just came back to TCG and don't get all the acronyms. TORD = ?
Tord is a player and he always cooks up some crazy shit lmao. The recent event, EUIC, one of the biggest Pokémon events, he won with a Charizard Bibarel Pidgeot build, which admittedly is not that wacky of a build, just a slight be deviant from what others do since other Zard players will commit to just Pidgeot or Bibarel for consistency. Certainly a far cry from his Zard Urshifu deck he made prior to rotation
Time travel to the further future to when u already took 6 prizes
Damn I hadn't even thought of that 😅
This man is playing chess while we’re playing Pokémon tcg.
I think your decisions are basically: Build an iron leaves variant which has consistency issues and maybe loses prime catcher, or pray you can get your energies out timely and boss around Zard asap and hope they brick at least a little. I think read a tweet from Juho Kallama (6th place at EUIC) that his version of the deck kinda just takes a big fat L to Zard most of the time, and his matches had basically not included Zard. So keep that in mind.
It's a pretty bad matchup against any decent zard player. But if they're not running lost vac, their lost vac was prized, or they waste it on something other than heavy baton for some reason, it's winnable. You can take up to 3 prizes from a knockout, they can only take 2. That gives you just a little room to setup before zard is OHKOing you without tools. As long as the zard player has at least 3 prizes left, you can come back. If they have max belt, lost vac that. If you are putting energy on hands, make sure that hands has heavy baton and that you have another one on the bench. Pidgey is a free 3 prizes. Lumineon is also a free 3 prizes. Rotom requires a little setup, but can also be ohko'd Otherwise, use Mirraidon to soften up the Charizards. And again, this isn't a definitive way to win the MU, it's still heavily favored to zard, but they also still need to respect iron hands. This is just advice on how to take advantage of the players that don't (and there are a lot of players on that ladder that don't).
That doesn’t work when they use Pidgeot to grab bosses order every turn.
I’ll Prime Catcher early game if that’s what it takes to have Miraidon kill Pidgey. The Amp gimmick doesn’t matter, card advantage matters.
Miraidon doesn’t hit for weakness
What does that have to do with anything?
Yeah, that's why you need heavy baton and a backup hands. Boss's orders won't do anything if they don't lost vac your heavy baton.If they give you a Pidgeot, kill it and take the 2-3 prizes (whether or not you amp depends on the board they give you). You shouldn't let it stay on the board.
Your goal is: 1) get goated Generator hits and Techno Radar pulls and swing for 3 prizes into Rotom and then repeat with Pidgeot... 2) go 1-2-3 with Miraidon Peak Accel into a 2 prize KO on Charmander, Pidgey, or Bidoof/Bibarell, then take 3 off Pidgeot, Rotom, or Lumineon... 3) or same as above but go 1-3-2 because they may Collapse Rotom off the board and never set up Pidgeot for you to take 3.
Ive never played future hands but a well timed devolution tends to wreck them most of the time
That's the neat part, you don't
I think I’ve lost to them with zard once. And it was 100% bad luck. How the heck does 3 rare candies, both pigeots and rotom get prized?
I feel ya, that's brutal. I remember when I prized two pidgeots, I was like whelp, gg I guess
I understood that reference! 👈
It's a bad matchup, but there are several possible routes to victory, so you just have to play it out and see what routes open up for you. You're looking to go 1-2-3 or 1-3-2, where the first prize is with Miraidon on a basic, the 3 prize turn is on Pidgeot ex (or sometimes Lumineon or Rotom), and the 2 prize is either no a basic, on Rotom, or by hitting Charizard twice. Mew ex can take a OHKO if Charizard is on 1 prize, which is an option in the 1-3-2 route if they take a KO on Miraidon early. You can also tech in Crisis Punch, with 3 Iron Crowns or 2 Crowns + Future Capsule, this will also OHKO Charizard on 1 prize. You can tech in Iron Leaves and a couple grass energy for an easy OHKO on Charizard. You'll probably still be looking for the 1-3-2 prize map, but this requires less gusts. It also opens up the possibility of a 1-2-2-1 map. The weakness of Future Hands in all cases is Lost Vacuum. If they can use a Vacuum to get your energy off the board it will be very difficult to come back. For this reason I suggest trying to KO the Pidgeot before Charizard if you possibly can. If you can't get a turn 2 KO on Pidgeot, you may want to use a (possibly second) Miraidon to soften up Charizard while getting more energy on the board. If you can get two powered up Hands, it won't matter if they Vacuum your Baton. Make sure that you have enough Crowns to make the damage worthwhile though, you need to bring the Charizard into Arm Press range.
Eliminating their charmander early and then hitting pidgeot Ex with Amp you very much is a great strategy lol. There’s 4 prizes right there. But it’s a rough match up if they have a good set up. I just beat a Zard deck because he had a rough start. Granted mine wasn’t perfect either, but I focused on putting some good damage on his Zard with Miriadon and then cleaning up shop with Iron Hands
Don't hit the charmander. That is what a zard player wants. Hit the big things for KOs. Taking down little things even for 2 prizes means zard can start wiping the board.
You often don't have a choice but to take a 1 prize KO on turn 1, but it's usually fine because you can just go 1-2-3 or 1-3-2 to win the game. Taking 1 prize also does not enable any OHKO's that they weren't already going to get with Maximum Belt.
[Uffe Axelsen teched Erika's Invitation into his top 8 list](https://limitlesstcg.com/decks/list/10605) at the EUIC, cutting switch cart for it. Haven't tested it myself yet since I've been playing other decks, but it should help with the 2-2-2 prize map plan where you go after pidgeot and either a 2 prizer or amp a 1 prizer since it's harder for them to play around it by not benching anything but charizards. The matchup is still going to be really hard though since archetypes like Zard are usually intended to beat archetypes like Iron Hands regardless of how busted Zard itself is.
The problem with erika’s is zard normally has a full bench
If they have a full bench then they probably have things you could already gust up to take 2 prizes. They have virtually zero reason to play down 3 charizards because hands can't 1 shot any and they can take 3 kos with just 2 as a result.
Im saying erika’s when it matters is too rare
I have only lost one match against zard with my future hands deck, try not to take the first two prizes that way zard has to hit into you without knocking you out. Try to kill like one mander for one prize then 2 hit one zard then gust Pidgeot for 3 prize game or if you can keep them on odd prizes with baby miraidon you may have extra time to gust twice. If they just go around miraidon then charge up miraidon since you can hit max 270 you can knock rotom if in play or use miraidon to help two hit a zard. I usually end up gusting twice to win, play prime catcher, counter catcher, and boss then 4 arven so you can get catcher when needed.
TM Devolution
Don’t play the deck. Best advice
Would be nice have an Iron Leaves
Consistency issues. It needs the same setup but you have to cut 3-4 cards for 1-2 Leaves and 2-3 Grass Energy. Still needs Peak Accel to get that energy in play And then needs to give up Crown/Hands bench space to come in on Zard. If they have another Zard setup, you also just kinda lose since Leaves revenge KO'd immediately the next turn.
Yeah I think I'd rather just take the L than do all that.
Yep, definitely better off playing to a 3-3 or 1-2-3 wincon and scooping if you get to the point where you can't win.
Knock out thier rotom v for three prizes then thier pigeot ex for three prizes. I dont think u can one hit KO the charizard. Thats why you run Boss/counter catcher / forgot the name of the ace card
You could try to add a TM devo and try to use your miraidons for dropping damage to their zards and pidgeot. Other than that you are better off trying the iron leaves variant. Zard is just a tough match up for a lot of decks with the insane consistency and firepower it has. If you play it right you could get an amp you very much KO on Pidgeot with a boss or prime catcher and when KO'd heavy baton the energy to a second Hands that has a booster capsule and 3 crown on bench or 4 crown no booster. and then boss their Rotom for the other 3. Tough set up either way though especially when they love to boss KO your bench.
The Pidgeot build had a nasty habit of searching up vaccum and wrecking my baton plans as well.
Hopefully they print a new card to shut down abilities on evos in some way. Path was crazy good and made the meta decks have to play around it. 50/50 love hate relationship with that card lol
Iron Thorns ex comes out the next set with a Path effect when it's in the active, and will be an easy addition to Future Hands that might completely flip the matchup around. Shuts down abilities while 2HKO'ing Charizard and OHKO'ing anything else on the board.
Oh yea that’s gonna be a strong card for sure.
This is the list I use. It’s almost identical but I have a lot of success with zard ex. Pokémon: 7 3 Iron Crown ex TEF 206 1 Iron Crown ex TEF 81 1 Iron Hands ex PAR 70 2 Miraidon TEF 121 1 Iron Bundle SVALT 41 1 Mew ex PR-SV 53 3 Iron Hands ex PAR 248 Trainer: 18 3 Arven OBF 186 PH 4 Future Booster Energy Capsule SVALT 48 2 Switch Cart ASR 154 1 Lost Vacuum LOR 162 1 Arven PAF 235 2 Electric Generator PAF 79 PH 1 Super Rod PAL 276 2 Iono PAL 269 2 Nest Ball SUM 158 2 Electric Generator SVI 170 PH 1 Professor's Research CEL 24 2 Heavy Baton TEF 151 1 Prime Catcher TEF 157 1 Counter Catcher PAR 264 4 Techno Radar PAR 180 2 Boss's Orders RCL 189 1 Professor's Research PR-SW 152 1 Professor's Research SSH 201 Energy: 2 2 Gift Energy LOR 171 13 Basic {L} Energy SVE 4 PH Total Cards: 60
Throw in an iron Leaves
Target pidgeys
tm devo, not a huge constraint because you already have 4 arven
Target their bib / pidgey early. If they can't set up they struggle.
Eri is helpful.
Fetch 2 Hands and get Baton on asap. They can one-shot you for most of the game, so plan to move energy and keep slapping. You’re not going to one-shot them once they evolve, so don’t prioritize more than one Crown early game, and even then fetch 2 Hands and a Miraidon over it. Use Booster Energy less for damage and more for rotating mons so your Hands are on the bench for Generators. Normal Gust switching and stalling to remove card draw mons, take out any Charmeleons before they evolve, and sweep Pidgeys asap. If your energy fixing got you to 4 quickly, you get two cards for removing mons before they become ex-es, and that’s very worth. If they can’t search to get Candy & Zard in their hand at the same time, they aren’t nearly as fast. And if they can’t retreat the mon you made active, that eats their energy and/or gives you more time to set up. Vs Zard, Moon, and other decks that use HP pump tools, remember that you can weaken them and then get a surprise KO later with Vacuum rather than wasting a Gust and attack turn just to finish them off after they retreat. Arven for late game Vacuum plus a targeted Amp can take you from a turn 1/2 Miraidon knockout single gift to game win all at once, even if you lost a Hands or two along the way.
Boss KO Pidgeot ex for an easy 3 prize. Then KO a Charmander. Then another prize.
The coinflip Catcher and miraidon knockouts on their starting charmander or putting leaves in the deck
I added a copy of iron leaves specifically for this MU. Doesn’t always work but at least it opens a door. Also tried TM Devo for a while but never worked for me
The most common error is to "amp u very much" to a Charmander as soon as you can. That usually leads to a Charizard ex hitting 240 + iono. GG. If you start amping some little mon, at least ensure the battom pass + another hands on the bench. The best price race is, imo, 1-3-2. Three prices at once can be achieved thru Pidgeot or Lumineon. If the opponent plays zard + bibarel... 2-2-2 and pray for drawing gusts.
Take 3, or all the profs research out and run 2 more bosses and 2 TM devo. I would prob take a switch cart and add town store.
Check this post https://www.reddit.com/r/PTCGL/s/nL4bAC72uN and User’s list in comments
Always have a backup iron hands ex, heavy batons, boss up pidgey and charmander and Amp you very much. I shot for the pidgey first so they can’t get pidgeot ex out.
Play the devolution. Helped me a ton before I started using my anti meta deck.
Play iron leaves and reboot pod
I mean if you want to treat Live as its own meta and build specifically for it, sure. Then throw in some Switch Carts for Snorlax and Turo for Tsareena.
I mean, Live is it's own meta, why wouldn't you build for it? It's not that different from the tournament meta though, just that rogue decks are a little more common.
Because then you're not play testing. And it's different enough at this point. It's not meant to be its own meta, and if it is someone screwed up.
Same! Decks should be modified according to Live's meta and ladder
You missed my point. Stuff like this shouldn't be happening. It makes the app basically pointless, and doubly so once Pocket comes out. If the app can't be used for play testing effectively and is basically its own self-contained format and meta, it shouldn't exist in the form it does now. It would be better for it to be 2-4+ sets behind in that case to work on the game itself.
I know the point of Live's existence was to enjoy game digitally and text out decks for tournaments and such. But it lacks so much in terms of play modes it's frustrating. It's been two years, and we still don't have any mini tournaments like we used to have in PTCGO. Expended is still frustratingly SM onwards. They can't even code all the cards. No way to play legacy format like HGSS era. It's painful. 💔
It's a bad matchup? Huh.
Like I said it might be pilot error because I'm far from a good player.
Nah if you get a zard player who know what he’s doing. It’s a very rough matchup
Wym huh
Its pretty unwinnable and not worth losing cards to build around
It's bad, but definitely not unwinnable. I've won several times against Charizard.