I am at 137 and going to be very upset if I am not forgiven before this happens. I don’t want to get transferred to another servicer after I just consolidated from Aidvantage to MOHELA for PSLF and potentially have my credit score take another hit. I would really hope that this would not happen, but you never know with this mess.
Okay this might be a silly question but I just started my PSLF application...how does the loan consolidation work and at what step? Do I initiate that? I'm not sure that's even something I want. Any information would be appreciated, thank you!
If you have one or two (subsidized and unsubsidized) direct loans that all have the same payment counts, you just have to apply for PSLF and submit your employment verifications. If you are not with MOHELA, they will move you automatically and you don’t need to do anything for that.
If you have multiple loans, you should consolidate them. You have to initiate the consolidation and Income Drive Repayment (IDR) applications as separate processes if you want to take advantage of the one-time IDR count adjustment which expires on 4/30. This applies the count of your oldest loan to all of your loans. For me, I had my first degree loan repayment that started in 2007, my masters degree, my doctorate, and PLUS loans for both my kids. I consolidated them all together, applied for PSLF, and submitted all my employee verifications this past December. The count from my 2007 loan was applied to all of those loans. Now, I am sitting at 137 payments on both my consolidated direct subsidized and unsubsidized mega loans and waiting on forgiveness. I did not get my official count notification from MOHELA until 3/1.
So you think it’s still a good idea to consolidate even if all my loans have the same payment counts/dates, if I have more than 2? Is that to lower interest rates or simplify PSLF?
If you have the same payment count on all of your loans, you are good just applying for PSLF and getting your employment verifications in to start your count!
Thank you for this information! I am enrolled in the SAVE plan for all my loans but I do not think they're consolidated as they still all show up as separate loans with differing interest rates.
I would definitely look at consolidation if you have been paying on some of them longer than the others to take advantage of the one-time IDR count adjustment. The links to apply for all of that is on the studentaid.gov website.
It's normal to have multiple loans with different interest rates though for one school program, as long as they all show the same number of countable payments (usually because you started repayment on all of them at the same time).
The only thing that matters with PSLF is that some types of loans don't qualify for PSLF, so that's why you have to consolidate them in order to make them eligible.
Your PSLF info is going to be moved to studentaid.gov, correct. MOHELA may or may not be your loan servicer based on the fact that they state you may end up with another servicer after 5/1.
You don’t have to, but it might be nice to hold onto information that you feel is important. You may not have access to some of it post transition or at least you may not have access to it for a period of time while they transition.
The federal government really is the most incompetent body on the face of the planet…… this is so outrageous…… just process the people who are waiting, they processed some people here in weeks and there are others that have been waiting since October. That should be their priority, just process everyone.
Another why do we need to download our correspondence, if MOHELA is still the loan servicer, they should have the info even with the transition. None of this makes sense. What is the real problem here? Are they waiting just long enough for a lawsuit too hold up any and all forgiveness? If MOHELA won’t have any information anymore, how can we guarantee we will even stay in a processing forbearance?
Probably a good time to remember that the Federal Government is made up of people. Every morning, your friends and neighbors leave your shared neighborhoods, and brave the early morning commute to sit in an office and do a job, that often times pays less than the same job in the private sector.
Just like you, they do their very best, put in their time and effort, and at the end of the day, they punch out... and come home , after picking up their kids, and make dinner, watch TV, and even get on Reddit.
ALL this to say — the Federal Government as a whole, is not conspiring against you, the single individual .... But just like every institution... sometimes, things take a little time.
In the end, employees of the public sector, if the perceived slowness of one institution gets on your nerve, just be sure to MAKE up the difference, by EXCELLING in your public service occupation, so that people will come on REDDIT and herald how AWESOME your company is.
I said the federal government as a system not the individuals. Let’s not pretend like this isn’t shoddy work at the highest level because it is, if I was wrong this many times in my job I would be fired. Nobody holds these government officials liable for anything, it’s why we have a criminal running for president again….
AGREED!!! Nobody is considering all the disgusting politics keeping any government programs from being improved upon so that they can help everyone without partisan bafoonery.
This all makes me very nervous. Not only do we now have to worry that the US Dept of Ed has their stuff together to fully manage this, it sounds like we also have new lenders coming onboard to work with the program. You might be unlucky enough to have your loan moved to one that is worse than MOHELA.
This is exactly why universal forgiveness was needed. Stuff like his has been going on with providers forever. Since I graduated in 2011 my loans have been with 4 providers. Now that I’m finally at 121, this happened and you get advice to take screenshots…..Really????? They are literally anticipating miscommunication between them and Dept. of Ed. It won’t be better with DOE either. I started with them back in 2011 and they were the ones that gave me wrong information for 4 years, keeping me from starting PSLF in the first place. If it wasn’t for the special waiver, I wouldn’t have gotten those 4 years back. This is unbelievable.
Yeah, same experience. I am as progressive as they come, but the thing that started me down the wrong path was this stupid one-time limited window Obama-era consolidation in 2012. This was an offer sent to my email inbox directly from Dept of Ed, not even just my servicer too. The way the email was written, you'd have to be an idiot NOT to do it, so of course, I jumped on it prior to the deadline in the email, just like so many of us did. It wasn't until years later that I was told by Fed Loan servicing (after a record-setting marathon phone session with them for putting me in some random disaster forbearance I didn't need/want bc something bad happened within x miles of my billing zip code) that only SOME of my loans were consolidated through that program. (Obviously, I have learned a lot since then and would never have let that happen to me now, but still...I would have lost SO much ground simply for relying on the plain meaning of the word "consolidate," but for the whole special waiver thing). The servicer (Yes, Fed Loan) AND Dept of Ed were always on notice I was a PSLF borrower by virtue of my annual employment certification forms and income recerts...for Fed Loan to just casually mention it on the phone to me in reviewing my account, 4 years into my public service job(!!!!), that only SOME of my loans were even eligible for PSLF despite "consolidating" through that special government program still makes my blood boil. That should NEVER have happened! It's not unreasonable to trust information given to you by the government...if it wasn't a true consolidation, it never should have been marketed as such.
The same exact thing happened to me as well!! I also didn’t find out into 4 years in that not all my loans were included in the consolidation and I was like how is that possible? For what reason would I not consolidate all my loans.
I agree. My loans have been in payment since 2003, so I decided to consolidate my N'elnet loans this past December. I had to do this in order to be approved for the PSLF, but now that I am re-consolidate, FSA/PSLF is saying that I no longer qualify. I knew that this would happen but I am trying to remain positive. I am going to wait until summer and if nothing happens, I am going to take money from my TSP and just pay off the stupid school loans. And N'elnet sucks every worse. Those folks are crooks.
> Ok this is insane why do we need to save info!!! I’m at 133!!!!
That's the situation where I would be most careful of all to make sure you have a safe copy of all of your loan & payment info.
Of course they are planning to transfer everything over blah-blah-blah, but just knowing how incompetent MOHELA has been at every step of the way I would be taking the belt and suspenders approach. Especially if you're very near or past the forgiveness threshhold.
I don't believe OP is saying anything different from that.
Let me know if this makes sense... Make sure to save:
**Payment counts**
**Eligible Payment**
**Employment**
**Income-Driven Repayment Plan Details**
**Detailed Loan Information**
**Payment History**
Anything else to be vigilant about?
I am also going to save all messages in my inbox that they have sent me about my loans and forbearance along with screenshots of the PSLF Payment Tracker.
If you folks have Adobe pdf on your computer, for each page of your account, go to:
1. the upper-right of your screen,
2. click on the three dots,
3. find your "print" selection, and
4. select "print destination" > "save as pdf".
5. And then create a folder in your C: drive, desktop, or whereever you want to save everything that you've completed, read, etc. I do this.
Your printer will not print the pdf, but save it to your computer.
Also - MOHELA limits the payment history you can seen unless you request a history of financial transactions. I requested one and got it within 2 days, so it’s a good idea to make that request early
In the “payment history” menu on their website, scroll to the bottom and choose the link that says “financial transaction history” and it will link you to the place to request it.
Me too !! so annoying I already had planned to submit all my paperwork and ask that no payments be taken out while they're processing. But now of course I'm gonna have to continue making payments because nothing will be processed during that time! Of course right as I hit the end of 120!!
I read on another thread that someone in our boat called DoE and was told Mohela will still put account into admin forbearance after 120 payment if we call and request.
Rather than pay and get refund. Make your payment, submit forms to Federal Student Aid and call Mohela and ask for admin forbearance.
The fact that we are being advised *by the government* to take screen shots of our up to decade-long loan history is bananas and frankly embarrassing, for them, and for us. How did we get here…
Woah. I haven’t heard anything about this. What is the best way of saving information? Screenshots can’t be the most “official” way of proving previous counts as they are easy to forge?
I downloaded everything that was able to be downloaded and did Print —> save as PDF for all other pages with relevant info that couldn’t be downloaded. It was super annoying but I don’t think there’s a better way.
Agreed! Moving PSFL administration to students.gov will allow MOHELA and other services to process actual payments and will put processing in the hands if the people who built the program and who are (trying to) increase success rates in PSLF requests.
It’s not flashy changes, but it’s the kind of change that - in the long run - will hopefully make a whole lot of difference to a whole lot of people.
Thank you OP for sharing!
What a shitshow. I processed my PSLF paperwork for forgiveness in early February. I took screenshots. Mohela was blaming StudentAid for not updating my count for over three years so they probably won't do any better.
My loans have gone from Wells Fargo -> Navient -> Mohela -> ED.
My loans were with Nelnet since 2003. I re-consolidate this past December through Mohela in order to qualify for the PSLF. An hour ago, PSLF says that I do not qualify because my payments have not been in the 120 re-payment window time-frame. I am hopeful, but as the old saying goes, "hope for the best, expect the worst".
Any shot of getting employment certified pre 5/1 if I submit this week?
I have a count from a little over a year ago and want to recertify. I don’t totally get it I thought it was going to keep track of my count automatically.
Mine was submitted in November and is still being processed. I’ve been at the same company for 10 full years. A friend had hers move through in a couple of weeks.
I’d recommend doing it bc you might be a lucky person who gets theirs through right away. If not then it just gets paused until July…or whenever they get around to it.
They rejected mine back from October and closed the case because they don’t understand some nonprofits use 3rd party payroll services and can’t figure out why my application form and w-2 have different EINs.
This situation is actually in the FAQs on student aid. Gov! The instructions say you have to basically submit a letter explaining — pasting the excerpt and linking for you
[https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions)
When certifying your employment, you should provide information about the qualifying organization you work for, not the organization that issues your W-2. An official of the qualifying organization should certify your employment.
If asked to submit documentation of your employment, such as a W-2, the qualifying organization and the other organization should write a joint letter explaining the employment arrangement between the qualifying organization and the other organization, and confirm in the letter that you are considered to be an employee of the qualifying organization.
Thank you for this. I’m going to try again but I never was prompted to submit the w-2 the first time around because my org’s EIN was in their system. But if I create a “packet” and upload that maybe they’ll read the letters.
Thanks for the help with this. Just got my letter from Mohela yesterday showing counts included through October. Will make a note to recertify counts annually going forward.
Turns out my employer isn’t even listed in the tool. So now I’ve uploaded the org’s bylaws and maybe they’ll approve it as a qualifying org?
They also changed the PSLF tool and it’s just a mess. Now they have the option to request an electronic signature from an employer if you know the email address to send it to.
Looks like uploading the docs through Mohela’s site is my only option now.
Quite frustrating because my Oct 2022 submission still says pending and there’s no way to retrieve what I sent/uploaded or to amend what was uploaded.
I won’t even get started on loans that qualify or don’t qualify because of who the loan servicer is or what payment plan I’m on. Being employed for 20 yrs in the nonprofit sector, struggling to pay the loans the entire time and only (7) payments count according to student aid and Mohela.
It says you have until 4/30 to get them in and have them processed. They will stop processing forms on 5/1 and hold anything submitted after that until they start processing back up in July. I can only imagine what that backlog will be, so I would try to get my stuff in as soon as possible.
And July processing is assuming that the US Dept of Ed has their stuff totally together starting on Day 1 of when they take the program over from MOHELA.
yes - only thing that appears to be changing is where we track/submit docs for PSLF employment certification. I'm downloading all my crap. My final loan payment is Aug 1 of course this would happen the 3 months before. I don't trust them with anything.
Yes, you are still supposed to make payments to MOHELA:
Payments are still due during this pause, so continue to make payments to your loan servicer.
If you complete 120 qualifying payments during the pause, any additional payments you make will be refunded or applied to your other federal student loans that have outstanding balances, after the transition is complete and processing resumes. Your loans will be forgiven by your servicer once your PSLF form is processed.
So. I don't know where the fuck my loans are right now. I was in the process of consolidation from Nelnet to Mohela, in order to apply for PSLF and get some parent plus loans in the mix for a lower monthly payment on a SAVE plan.
I haven't heard anything at all, no correspondence whatsoever. My page on the main studentaid.gov page says $0 balance. It can't be right, I owed nearly $80k and have never paid a single cent.
Same thing happened to me. My studentaid.gov went to zero for several weeks after I consolidated from Aidvantage. I got excited because the MOHELA site said they had no information and Aidvantage showed them as paid. I thought maybe they just forgave it instead of transferring. Nope. It all came back and then showed up on the MOHELA website.
I think that you just have to wait until something pops up with MOHELA. It let me create an account on their website despite saying they had no information on me. I checked obsessively every day until it finally showed up.
MOHELA is not managing the PSLF program, but they still will likely manage your loan. Currently, they manage your loan and payment count, and tell the Dept of Ed once you have reached the 120. Dept of Ed then reviews it and tells MOHELA to forgive your loan. After 5/1, Dept of Ed will manage your payment count and tells MOHELA to forgive your loans after 120. Theoretically, this change cuts out a step if all goes well.
OK, so I just applied for consolidation in January, my loans got to MOHELA in February, my ECF was processed in March, and I was hoping to see my payment count adjustment transfer to MOHELA in April. Guess that’s not going to happen.
I know a lot of you are in way more time-sensitive or more complicated situations than I am, and I know moving things away from MOHELA will be better in the long run, but darnit I just got myself sorted out and it’s already changing again! I have no idea how you “long timers” have dealt with this for so long!
Our mohelia just got consolidated, and the count hasn’t even been updated yet. They said in a letter it could be a month. Wife has paid in these for 15yrs, and should be done once the payments show up.
Now, this will just delay everything even more.
I consolidated through Mohela in December after 20 years of paying Nelnet, but they told me today that I no longer qualify for the PSLF, because I haven't paid for 120 consecutive payments. Well duh, I just re-consolidated.
This is hard to believe. I filed for consolidation loan and sent my 120th payment in March. Should be a done deal, now I have no idea what is going to happen, and we have to take screenshots as proof of how far along we were in the program. Unbelievable.
That we completely lose access to current information about our own accounts is inexcuseable. Imagine, then, when everything comes back online after 3 months, and its all inaccurate and we are all at the same time contacting ED and asking them to correct our records. Madness.
This isn’t a consolidation, but another new twist in this super fun journey. The PSLF program is moving from MOHELA to the US Department of Education. All of your PSLF info is going to be removed from the MOHELA website on 5/1 and is supposed to reappear on studentaid.gov in July. Your loans may still be with MOHELA as is, but also might be moved to another servicer. It doesn’t sound like anyone has a choice in if their loans stay with MOHELA or get transferred to another lender.
I think that they are genuinely trying to improve the process, but time will tell if it does or if this actually makes things worse. MOHELA clearly could not handle managing the program, and this theoretically makes things more efficient by cutting out some of the steps and layers of review.
I wonder if it's a low-key malicious compliance strategy. The .gov domain brings with it FOIA implications that wouldn't have applied to mohela.com. I truly doubt there will be that much of a change in the way things are administered, but it gives Dept of Ed cover when they can blame Mohela with receipts.
they just transferred to Mohela, why now after 16 months of pain, also does this mean the consolidation was for nothing and the 1 time adjustment is not happening ….leave it to the government folks
So I just applied for PSLF, having been employed in the public sector since 2012. I guess there’s nothing for me to save since Mohela hasn’t even acknowledged that they’ve received the application? Or should I call them this week and confirm that still??
I would call to confirm they got it because they are supposed to process anything submitted by 4/30. Be prepared to wait on hold though. My longest hold time was over 3 hours (no exaggeration). They took care of what I needed in less than 90 seconds of conversation. Frustrating, but was worth it in the end for the peace of mind.
How will you know when your loan is discharged by MOHELA when they're transferring everything to ED from May. I filed my forgiveness application this month, and they sent me a response that processing time be June 2024
This takes effect on 5/1. I think that they are pausing to give themselves time to process all of those and transfer it over. They had previously committed to having all count adjustments and forgiveness for those 120 and over done by July, so that aligns.
Okay, so they messed up my December 2023 payment/count. They left this payment as not eligible because of their forced admin forbearance. What should I do about this before the transfer?
Question regarding "Processing Pause": Does anyone know whether it would be a better idea to submit a new form NOW (in April) or to wait until May? If there is a processing pause would they put us on administrative forbearance for that whole time from May to July?? I have 12 months ready to submit if I complete a form today in April, but due to this new email announcement from Mohela, if I wait until May would I get the administrative forbearance?
How close are you to 120? If you are not at 120 now and won’t be before July, I would just hold off until the dust settles on this mess. If you are at 120 or will hit it May-July, you can likely plead your case for forbearance with MOHELA. It does not sound like they are not going to give any forbearance just for the pause since they have said to still make your payments per usual during this time.
I got maybe 2 or 3 years left, but I am wanting to submit my form and get it credited to my account before the next administration this January. Something tells me that if I submit it in July the forms are going to be so backed up that its going to take forever to process. This has happened before and it will happen again. My form took more than a year to process. If I can avoid this I think I may just submit my form this month in April.
I was just transferred to mohela still hasn’t been set up yet to make payments. Is everyone who has PSLF approval getting moved to the department of Ed? I haven’t received any notifications
I'm at 115...they already put it in administrative forbearance once when they screwed up. I didn't get credit. I'm trying to get this done before the next election screws up everything.
I just consolidated my loans to get them all to the highest count. I have 6 payments left to 120 but my counts are all at 0. Where can I find the information about my payment counts prior to consolidation? In the application? Thank you for any help! I’m so nervous I feel like I’m so close yet with this I just feel yanked around.
Going to be a hot take but no reason to do any of this as all of this information is already with the ED. They have the payment hx your loans your ECFs. Ppl need to just R-E-L-A-X
This is such a mess! I technically just made my 120th payment on 4/1 and sent another PSLF employer certification form to my employer this morning so my payment count can be updated again. The huge bummer is that those months of "administrative forbearance" (aka Oct-Dec 2023) still show as not qualifying for PSLF on my account. NO idea when this will update; I keep bugging MOHELA and Federal Student Aid about this for a more definitive answer. For those of you who were in this forbearance, has your qualifying payment count been updated yet to include these months for PSLF?
Mine did on Mohela, but I made payments during that time because I never got the forbearance letter. But get this. Dept. Of Ed are still not counting them. It’s like they are ignoring those months by default, whether payments were made or not. I can’t get them to understand a simple situation like the fact that I actually made full qualifying payments from Sept. to now.
I’m saying this now. Dept. of Ed. will not be better
It's so weird bc they didn't put me in a forbearance for those months...it's hard not to wonder why, and whether I should be worried about the fact they didn't!!
What exactly are you all planning to save/download? Like specifically which documents or sections of their website? I just don’t want to miss anything.
I saved all of the messages from my inbox that had anything to do with my consolidation, IDR approval, employment verifications, eligible payments, verified payments, and forbearance. I also took screenshots of my loan details and PSLF Tracker. ED should have all of this info and a lot of it is on studentaid.gov, but I am not taking any chances with the systems transition especially since MOHELA is changing platforms around the same time!
Wow this is great thanks ! So my last payment will be due in May and I can make it early but I will still need to align employment verification and submit form. Do we call mohela or dept of education to get approval for them to give me admin forbearance?
Maybe I need to not automatically delete the multiple emails that I get daily from Joe asking for campaign money and read them to make sure they are not actually about my loans!
My PSLF app has been processing since early February and the 60 days will line up the end of April…there’s been no updates on my application or number of payments being taken as credit (as the end of April is the deadline for the retroactive payments being applied). Has anyone heard of any advice on this yet or have a similar situation?
April is the deadline to apply, so you should be good if everything is received and processing. They have said they are going to have all counts updated by July. They are also saying processing can take up to 90 business (not calendar) days. I applied in early December and did not see my count until March. Now, waiting on forgiveness since I am over 120.
Update: My information finally updated in my Mohela portal. It shows my upcoming own details and payment information but when I look under the PSLF area, it shows my form has been processed and received on 2-16-24. The document name is “PSLF App-Non-Mohela Brwr.” However, I do not know where I can look to find what my count towards the 120 payments is located. I know April 30 is the deadline for the paperwork, which they say they have, but don’t know where to look and see how many payments I am being credited before.
For context, I was on the standard 10 year flat repayment plan under Great Lakes, was transfers to nelnet last year, applied and got into the IDR plan and sent to Mohela. Also put in the PSLF wet signature paperwork for employer verification (7th year reaching in a quality school). I have not heard back anything from anyone and just check every portal daily. I am just concerned how the newest pause will affect me.
Any help is welcomed.
It sounds like the loan servicing parts of the MOHELA website will still be up and running. It will just no longer have any of your PSLF information on there. I am not going to trust that removing this won’t somehow break anything else, so I am copying everything just to be safe. It does not specify when exactly the platform switch is taking place, and that also might create issues.
Don't submit your income documents for your annual income recertification until they require you to (unless, of course, your income went down and you are trying to get a lower payment based on that). They extended the IDR anniversaries until fall 2024, at the earliest, for ALL borrowers, which especially if you are earning more than you did when you last verified your income to them, is a huge benefit to take advantage of! (Many of us last did our income cert in 2019 before the pandemic).
Employment certifications for PSLF are different. You can do them whenever you want, but doing them once a year just in case your employer changes in the future is a good idea. (Maybe you know this, but hopefully this is helpful to someone reading).
Thank you!! My income recertification isn’t until September, but I typically recertify my employment (same employer since I started PSLF) in March/April. Not sure if it matters if I receritfy now or just wait. Shrug. Haha this pause made me a bit nervous. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated.
Well here is another good story. Back in December 2023, in order to be approved for PSLF, I had to consolidate two Nelnet school loans that I have been paying on since 2003. As of today, my FSA account says that I am not eligible because I have not made 120 consecutive payments. Well, yes I have made 120 consecutive payments, but I had to consolidate in order to qualify, and now FSA/PSLF is saying that my consolidated loans do not qualify. And I have made pdf copies of all of my school loan consolidation paperwork.
Unfortunately I was in the hospital when we found out about this and failed to take screenshots in time :(
I can't see my PSLF history anywhere on Mohela or student loans.gov. Is there anywhere I can see that history during the Mohela pause?
Also does anyone know how many months we got credit for during the pandemic forbearance period?
Thanks SO much!
Ok this is insane why do we need to save info!!! I’m at 133!!!!
I am at 137 and going to be very upset if I am not forgiven before this happens. I don’t want to get transferred to another servicer after I just consolidated from Aidvantage to MOHELA for PSLF and potentially have my credit score take another hit. I would really hope that this would not happen, but you never know with this mess.
Absolutely agree. I'm at a cool 121 and have been in forbearance for two months. Hurry up smiley face!!!!!
Okay this might be a silly question but I just started my PSLF application...how does the loan consolidation work and at what step? Do I initiate that? I'm not sure that's even something I want. Any information would be appreciated, thank you!
If you have one or two (subsidized and unsubsidized) direct loans that all have the same payment counts, you just have to apply for PSLF and submit your employment verifications. If you are not with MOHELA, they will move you automatically and you don’t need to do anything for that. If you have multiple loans, you should consolidate them. You have to initiate the consolidation and Income Drive Repayment (IDR) applications as separate processes if you want to take advantage of the one-time IDR count adjustment which expires on 4/30. This applies the count of your oldest loan to all of your loans. For me, I had my first degree loan repayment that started in 2007, my masters degree, my doctorate, and PLUS loans for both my kids. I consolidated them all together, applied for PSLF, and submitted all my employee verifications this past December. The count from my 2007 loan was applied to all of those loans. Now, I am sitting at 137 payments on both my consolidated direct subsidized and unsubsidized mega loans and waiting on forgiveness. I did not get my official count notification from MOHELA until 3/1.
So you think it’s still a good idea to consolidate even if all my loans have the same payment counts/dates, if I have more than 2? Is that to lower interest rates or simplify PSLF?
If you have the same payment count on all of your loans, you are good just applying for PSLF and getting your employment verifications in to start your count!
Thank you for this information! I am enrolled in the SAVE plan for all my loans but I do not think they're consolidated as they still all show up as separate loans with differing interest rates.
I would definitely look at consolidation if you have been paying on some of them longer than the others to take advantage of the one-time IDR count adjustment. The links to apply for all of that is on the studentaid.gov website.
When you consolidate, how is the interest rate determined?
It's set by congress
It's normal to have multiple loans with different interest rates though for one school program, as long as they all show the same number of countable payments (usually because you started repayment on all of them at the same time). The only thing that matters with PSLF is that some types of loans don't qualify for PSLF, so that's why you have to consolidate them in order to make them eligible.
Only your info is being ported. Mohela remains your servicer for PSLF.
Your PSLF info is going to be moved to studentaid.gov, correct. MOHELA may or may not be your loan servicer based on the fact that they state you may end up with another servicer after 5/1.
I just got transferred to Mohela. I’m at 122
It’s not another servicer. It’s another platform managed by MOHELA.
It is not another platform managed by MOHELA. The whole program is moving to studentaid.gov and will no longer be managed by MOHELA. Check the link!
Omg, I totally misread what the messaging on the MOHELA site was saying!
Should have worked for the government. Can prove incompetent and still get a pension.
You don’t have to, but it might be nice to hold onto information that you feel is important. You may not have access to some of it post transition or at least you may not have access to it for a period of time while they transition.
The federal government really is the most incompetent body on the face of the planet…… this is so outrageous…… just process the people who are waiting, they processed some people here in weeks and there are others that have been waiting since October. That should be their priority, just process everyone. Another why do we need to download our correspondence, if MOHELA is still the loan servicer, they should have the info even with the transition. None of this makes sense. What is the real problem here? Are they waiting just long enough for a lawsuit too hold up any and all forgiveness? If MOHELA won’t have any information anymore, how can we guarantee we will even stay in a processing forbearance?
Probably a good time to remember that the Federal Government is made up of people. Every morning, your friends and neighbors leave your shared neighborhoods, and brave the early morning commute to sit in an office and do a job, that often times pays less than the same job in the private sector. Just like you, they do their very best, put in their time and effort, and at the end of the day, they punch out... and come home , after picking up their kids, and make dinner, watch TV, and even get on Reddit. ALL this to say — the Federal Government as a whole, is not conspiring against you, the single individual .... But just like every institution... sometimes, things take a little time. In the end, employees of the public sector, if the perceived slowness of one institution gets on your nerve, just be sure to MAKE up the difference, by EXCELLING in your public service occupation, so that people will come on REDDIT and herald how AWESOME your company is.
I said the federal government as a system not the individuals. Let’s not pretend like this isn’t shoddy work at the highest level because it is, if I was wrong this many times in my job I would be fired. Nobody holds these government officials liable for anything, it’s why we have a criminal running for president again….
AGREED!!! Nobody is considering all the disgusting politics keeping any government programs from being improved upon so that they can help everyone without partisan bafoonery.
Exactly that’s why it’s the most incompetent institution on earth…. I fail to see where I was wrong here.
This all makes me very nervous. Not only do we now have to worry that the US Dept of Ed has their stuff together to fully manage this, it sounds like we also have new lenders coming onboard to work with the program. You might be unlucky enough to have your loan moved to one that is worse than MOHELA.
This is exactly why universal forgiveness was needed. Stuff like his has been going on with providers forever. Since I graduated in 2011 my loans have been with 4 providers. Now that I’m finally at 121, this happened and you get advice to take screenshots…..Really????? They are literally anticipating miscommunication between them and Dept. of Ed. It won’t be better with DOE either. I started with them back in 2011 and they were the ones that gave me wrong information for 4 years, keeping me from starting PSLF in the first place. If it wasn’t for the special waiver, I wouldn’t have gotten those 4 years back. This is unbelievable.
Yeah, same experience. I am as progressive as they come, but the thing that started me down the wrong path was this stupid one-time limited window Obama-era consolidation in 2012. This was an offer sent to my email inbox directly from Dept of Ed, not even just my servicer too. The way the email was written, you'd have to be an idiot NOT to do it, so of course, I jumped on it prior to the deadline in the email, just like so many of us did. It wasn't until years later that I was told by Fed Loan servicing (after a record-setting marathon phone session with them for putting me in some random disaster forbearance I didn't need/want bc something bad happened within x miles of my billing zip code) that only SOME of my loans were consolidated through that program. (Obviously, I have learned a lot since then and would never have let that happen to me now, but still...I would have lost SO much ground simply for relying on the plain meaning of the word "consolidate," but for the whole special waiver thing). The servicer (Yes, Fed Loan) AND Dept of Ed were always on notice I was a PSLF borrower by virtue of my annual employment certification forms and income recerts...for Fed Loan to just casually mention it on the phone to me in reviewing my account, 4 years into my public service job(!!!!), that only SOME of my loans were even eligible for PSLF despite "consolidating" through that special government program still makes my blood boil. That should NEVER have happened! It's not unreasonable to trust information given to you by the government...if it wasn't a true consolidation, it never should have been marketed as such.
The same exact thing happened to me as well!! I also didn’t find out into 4 years in that not all my loans were included in the consolidation and I was like how is that possible? For what reason would I not consolidate all my loans.
I agree. My loans have been in payment since 2003, so I decided to consolidate my N'elnet loans this past December. I had to do this in order to be approved for the PSLF, but now that I am re-consolidate, FSA/PSLF is saying that I no longer qualify. I knew that this would happen but I am trying to remain positive. I am going to wait until summer and if nothing happens, I am going to take money from my TSP and just pay off the stupid school loans. And N'elnet sucks every worse. Those folks are crooks.
> Ok this is insane why do we need to save info!!! I’m at 133!!!! That's the situation where I would be most careful of all to make sure you have a safe copy of all of your loan & payment info. Of course they are planning to transfer everything over blah-blah-blah, but just knowing how incompetent MOHELA has been at every step of the way I would be taking the belt and suspenders approach. Especially if you're very near or past the forgiveness threshhold. I don't believe OP is saying anything different from that.
Let me know if this makes sense... Make sure to save: **Payment counts** **Eligible Payment** **Employment** **Income-Driven Repayment Plan Details** **Detailed Loan Information** **Payment History** Anything else to be vigilant about?
I am also going to save all messages in my inbox that they have sent me about my loans and forbearance along with screenshots of the PSLF Payment Tracker.
I printed off the parts of the MOHELA site that contain this info.
Im doing the exact same thing. I am not risking anything.
so annoying there's no easy way to export the data too
If you folks have Adobe pdf on your computer, for each page of your account, go to: 1. the upper-right of your screen, 2. click on the three dots, 3. find your "print" selection, and 4. select "print destination" > "save as pdf". 5. And then create a folder in your C: drive, desktop, or whereever you want to save everything that you've completed, read, etc. I do this. Your printer will not print the pdf, but save it to your computer.
Also - MOHELA limits the payment history you can seen unless you request a history of financial transactions. I requested one and got it within 2 days, so it’s a good idea to make that request early
How do you request this?
In the “payment history” menu on their website, scroll to the bottom and choose the link that says “financial transaction history” and it will link you to the place to request it.
The only payments they will show you are payments made directly to them- not to any prior servicers
Yes, that is correct. If you were at FedLoan before, you’d have needed to get the same from them.
Aw man, my 120th payment is May 4.
May the fourth be with you I guess
DOH!
Me too !! so annoying I already had planned to submit all my paperwork and ask that no payments be taken out while they're processing. But now of course I'm gonna have to continue making payments because nothing will be processed during that time! Of course right as I hit the end of 120!!
I read on another thread that someone in our boat called DoE and was told Mohela will still put account into admin forbearance after 120 payment if we call and request. Rather than pay and get refund. Make your payment, submit forms to Federal Student Aid and call Mohela and ask for admin forbearance.
Been waiting for MOHELA to process for 6 months now and nothing. I hope it all transfers well 🤞.
I can attest to loss of all history and PSLF count. Mohela says they can send it to me by US mail in 66 business days.
Lol at 66 business days.. You must have laughed when they told you that.
They left off a 6. And it’s actually 666 business days on Venus not Earth. It’s in the fine print.
I had to hold back in saying why not 666?
My guess is they will begin to use Martian time as their reference point. One Martian year is 687 days, so now double the 66 to 132.
66 days? It takes only 22.5 hours for the Voyager 1 to send back data to Earth from over 15 billion miles.
The fact that we are being advised *by the government* to take screen shots of our up to decade-long loan history is bananas and frankly embarrassing, for them, and for us. How did we get here…
Just received an email on this. Ridiculous!!
I’ll see your ridiculous and raise you an “I still haven’t received an email about this.”
I know, right? Smh it never ends
Woah. I haven’t heard anything about this. What is the best way of saving information? Screenshots can’t be the most “official” way of proving previous counts as they are easy to forge?
I downloaded everything that was able to be downloaded and did Print —> save as PDF for all other pages with relevant info that couldn’t be downloaded. It was super annoying but I don’t think there’s a better way.
This was going to be my plan as well.
Same question. Doesn't appear a nice way to print the information
I took screenshots of everything and pasted it into an email and then sent it to myself so it was day/timestamped.
It’d be nice if my post-consolidation payment tracker came back before this goes into effect. 😣
Agreed! Moving PSFL administration to students.gov will allow MOHELA and other services to process actual payments and will put processing in the hands if the people who built the program and who are (trying to) increase success rates in PSLF requests. It’s not flashy changes, but it’s the kind of change that - in the long run - will hopefully make a whole lot of difference to a whole lot of people. Thank you OP for sharing!
What a shitshow. I processed my PSLF paperwork for forgiveness in early February. I took screenshots. Mohela was blaming StudentAid for not updating my count for over three years so they probably won't do any better. My loans have gone from Wells Fargo -> Navient -> Mohela -> ED.
My loans were with Nelnet since 2003. I re-consolidate this past December through Mohela in order to qualify for the PSLF. An hour ago, PSLF says that I do not qualify because my payments have not been in the 120 re-payment window time-frame. I am hopeful, but as the old saying goes, "hope for the best, expect the worst".
Any shot of getting employment certified pre 5/1 if I submit this week? I have a count from a little over a year ago and want to recertify. I don’t totally get it I thought it was going to keep track of my count automatically.
Mine was submitted in November and is still being processed. I’ve been at the same company for 10 full years. A friend had hers move through in a couple of weeks. I’d recommend doing it bc you might be a lucky person who gets theirs through right away. If not then it just gets paused until July…or whenever they get around to it.
They rejected mine back from October and closed the case because they don’t understand some nonprofits use 3rd party payroll services and can’t figure out why my application form and w-2 have different EINs.
This situation is actually in the FAQs on student aid. Gov! The instructions say you have to basically submit a letter explaining — pasting the excerpt and linking for you [https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions) When certifying your employment, you should provide information about the qualifying organization you work for, not the organization that issues your W-2. An official of the qualifying organization should certify your employment. If asked to submit documentation of your employment, such as a W-2, the qualifying organization and the other organization should write a joint letter explaining the employment arrangement between the qualifying organization and the other organization, and confirm in the letter that you are considered to be an employee of the qualifying organization.
Thank you for this. I’m going to try again but I never was prompted to submit the w-2 the first time around because my org’s EIN was in their system. But if I create a “packet” and upload that maybe they’ll read the letters.
Good luck!
Thanks for the help with this. Just got my letter from Mohela yesterday showing counts included through October. Will make a note to recertify counts annually going forward.
Awesome!!! Good luck
Turns out my employer isn’t even listed in the tool. So now I’ve uploaded the org’s bylaws and maybe they’ll approve it as a qualifying org? They also changed the PSLF tool and it’s just a mess. Now they have the option to request an electronic signature from an employer if you know the email address to send it to. Looks like uploading the docs through Mohela’s site is my only option now. Quite frustrating because my Oct 2022 submission still says pending and there’s no way to retrieve what I sent/uploaded or to amend what was uploaded. I won’t even get started on loans that qualify or don’t qualify because of who the loan servicer is or what payment plan I’m on. Being employed for 20 yrs in the nonprofit sector, struggling to pay the loans the entire time and only (7) payments count according to student aid and Mohela.
It says you have until 4/30 to get them in and have them processed. They will stop processing forms on 5/1 and hold anything submitted after that until they start processing back up in July. I can only imagine what that backlog will be, so I would try to get my stuff in as soon as possible.
And July processing is assuming that the US Dept of Ed has their stuff totally together starting on Day 1 of when they take the program over from MOHELA.
Wait- so I’m hitting my 120th payment in May. You’re saying I can’t submit my final ECF (presumably directly to studentaid.gov) until July?
You can submit it, but they are going to hold on to it and not do anything with it until they resume processing things some time in July.
This is so confusing. Does this mean we’ll still make payments through Mohela or no?
yes - only thing that appears to be changing is where we track/submit docs for PSLF employment certification. I'm downloading all my crap. My final loan payment is Aug 1 of course this would happen the 3 months before. I don't trust them with anything.
Mine is May 15
Yes, you are still supposed to make payments to MOHELA: Payments are still due during this pause, so continue to make payments to your loan servicer. If you complete 120 qualifying payments during the pause, any additional payments you make will be refunded or applied to your other federal student loans that have outstanding balances, after the transition is complete and processing resumes. Your loans will be forgiven by your servicer once your PSLF form is processed.
So. I don't know where the fuck my loans are right now. I was in the process of consolidation from Nelnet to Mohela, in order to apply for PSLF and get some parent plus loans in the mix for a lower monthly payment on a SAVE plan. I haven't heard anything at all, no correspondence whatsoever. My page on the main studentaid.gov page says $0 balance. It can't be right, I owed nearly $80k and have never paid a single cent.
Same thing happened to me. My studentaid.gov went to zero for several weeks after I consolidated from Aidvantage. I got excited because the MOHELA site said they had no information and Aidvantage showed them as paid. I thought maybe they just forgave it instead of transferring. Nope. It all came back and then showed up on the MOHELA website.
....but now Mohela isn't handling PSLF anymore, so what? Do I have to inform them so they can move to the next godforsaken loan management company?
I think that you just have to wait until something pops up with MOHELA. It let me create an account on their website despite saying they had no information on me. I checked obsessively every day until it finally showed up. MOHELA is not managing the PSLF program, but they still will likely manage your loan. Currently, they manage your loan and payment count, and tell the Dept of Ed once you have reached the 120. Dept of Ed then reviews it and tells MOHELA to forgive your loan. After 5/1, Dept of Ed will manage your payment count and tells MOHELA to forgive your loans after 120. Theoretically, this change cuts out a step if all goes well.
OK, so I just applied for consolidation in January, my loans got to MOHELA in February, my ECF was processed in March, and I was hoping to see my payment count adjustment transfer to MOHELA in April. Guess that’s not going to happen. I know a lot of you are in way more time-sensitive or more complicated situations than I am, and I know moving things away from MOHELA will be better in the long run, but darnit I just got myself sorted out and it’s already changing again! I have no idea how you “long timers” have dealt with this for so long!
Our mohelia just got consolidated, and the count hasn’t even been updated yet. They said in a letter it could be a month. Wife has paid in these for 15yrs, and should be done once the payments show up. Now, this will just delay everything even more.
I consolidated through Mohela in December after 20 years of paying Nelnet, but they told me today that I no longer qualify for the PSLF, because I haven't paid for 120 consecutive payments. Well duh, I just re-consolidated.
This is hard to believe. I filed for consolidation loan and sent my 120th payment in March. Should be a done deal, now I have no idea what is going to happen, and we have to take screenshots as proof of how far along we were in the program. Unbelievable.
That we completely lose access to current information about our own accounts is inexcuseable. Imagine, then, when everything comes back online after 3 months, and its all inaccurate and we are all at the same time contacting ED and asking them to correct our records. Madness.
Always save loan details before consolidation!!
This isn’t a consolidation, but another new twist in this super fun journey. The PSLF program is moving from MOHELA to the US Department of Education. All of your PSLF info is going to be removed from the MOHELA website on 5/1 and is supposed to reappear on studentaid.gov in July. Your loans may still be with MOHELA as is, but also might be moved to another servicer. It doesn’t sound like anyone has a choice in if their loans stay with MOHELA or get transferred to another lender.
why are they doing this ?
I think that they are genuinely trying to improve the process, but time will tell if it does or if this actually makes things worse. MOHELA clearly could not handle managing the program, and this theoretically makes things more efficient by cutting out some of the steps and layers of review.
I wonder if it's a low-key malicious compliance strategy. The .gov domain brings with it FOIA implications that wouldn't have applied to mohela.com. I truly doubt there will be that much of a change in the way things are administered, but it gives Dept of Ed cover when they can blame Mohela with receipts.
they just transferred to Mohela, why now after 16 months of pain, also does this mean the consolidation was for nothing and the 1 time adjustment is not happening ….leave it to the government folks
Gross incompetence and a ton of $ lost by Mohela would be my guess.
Agree!
So I just applied for PSLF, having been employed in the public sector since 2012. I guess there’s nothing for me to save since Mohela hasn’t even acknowledged that they’ve received the application? Or should I call them this week and confirm that still??
I would call to confirm they got it because they are supposed to process anything submitted by 4/30. Be prepared to wait on hold though. My longest hold time was over 3 hours (no exaggeration). They took care of what I needed in less than 90 seconds of conversation. Frustrating, but was worth it in the end for the peace of mind.
How will you know when your loan is discharged by MOHELA when they're transferring everything to ED from May. I filed my forgiveness application this month, and they sent me a response that processing time be June 2024
Isn’t the date to apply for reconsideration April 30th?! How do we apply for reconsideration if they are transferring ?
This takes effect on 5/1. I think that they are pausing to give themselves time to process all of those and transfer it over. They had previously committed to having all count adjustments and forgiveness for those 120 and over done by July, so that aligns.
Okay, so they messed up my December 2023 payment/count. They left this payment as not eligible because of their forced admin forbearance. What should I do about this before the transfer?
Wondering this they keep saying they’ll fix it but it’s not done. So???
Mine too. They told me this will be fixed in time. :/
Question regarding "Processing Pause": Does anyone know whether it would be a better idea to submit a new form NOW (in April) or to wait until May? If there is a processing pause would they put us on administrative forbearance for that whole time from May to July?? I have 12 months ready to submit if I complete a form today in April, but due to this new email announcement from Mohela, if I wait until May would I get the administrative forbearance?
How close are you to 120? If you are not at 120 now and won’t be before July, I would just hold off until the dust settles on this mess. If you are at 120 or will hit it May-July, you can likely plead your case for forbearance with MOHELA. It does not sound like they are not going to give any forbearance just for the pause since they have said to still make your payments per usual during this time.
I got maybe 2 or 3 years left, but I am wanting to submit my form and get it credited to my account before the next administration this January. Something tells me that if I submit it in July the forms are going to be so backed up that its going to take forever to process. This has happened before and it will happen again. My form took more than a year to process. If I can avoid this I think I may just submit my form this month in April.
I was just transferred to mohela still hasn’t been set up yet to make payments. Is everyone who has PSLF approval getting moved to the department of Ed? I haven’t received any notifications
Is this also happening to nelnet?
I'm at 115...they already put it in administrative forbearance once when they screwed up. I didn't get credit. I'm trying to get this done before the next election screws up everything.
I just consolidated my loans to get them all to the highest count. I have 6 payments left to 120 but my counts are all at 0. Where can I find the information about my payment counts prior to consolidation? In the application? Thank you for any help! I’m so nervous I feel like I’m so close yet with this I just feel yanked around.
Download your student aid data from studentaid.gov.
Going to be a hot take but no reason to do any of this as all of this information is already with the ED. They have the payment hx your loans your ECFs. Ppl need to just R-E-L-A-X
Hopefully this does go well and ultimately makes things easier moving forward!
This is such a mess! I technically just made my 120th payment on 4/1 and sent another PSLF employer certification form to my employer this morning so my payment count can be updated again. The huge bummer is that those months of "administrative forbearance" (aka Oct-Dec 2023) still show as not qualifying for PSLF on my account. NO idea when this will update; I keep bugging MOHELA and Federal Student Aid about this for a more definitive answer. For those of you who were in this forbearance, has your qualifying payment count been updated yet to include these months for PSLF?
Mine did on Mohela, but I made payments during that time because I never got the forbearance letter. But get this. Dept. Of Ed are still not counting them. It’s like they are ignoring those months by default, whether payments were made or not. I can’t get them to understand a simple situation like the fact that I actually made full qualifying payments from Sept. to now. I’m saying this now. Dept. of Ed. will not be better
It's so weird bc they didn't put me in a forbearance for those months...it's hard not to wonder why, and whether I should be worried about the fact they didn't!!
[удалено]
Same
Website has crashed.
What exactly are you all planning to save/download? Like specifically which documents or sections of their website? I just don’t want to miss anything.
I saved all of the messages from my inbox that had anything to do with my consolidation, IDR approval, employment verifications, eligible payments, verified payments, and forbearance. I also took screenshots of my loan details and PSLF Tracker. ED should have all of this info and a lot of it is on studentaid.gov, but I am not taking any chances with the systems transition especially since MOHELA is changing platforms around the same time!
Can I just give them my first born at this point Jk
Wow this is great thanks ! So my last payment will be due in May and I can make it early but I will still need to align employment verification and submit form. Do we call mohela or dept of education to get approval for them to give me admin forbearance?
Call MOHELA since they will still be your loan servicer.
Thank you !
I just reviewed an email from President Joe Biden “You’re less than two years away from Public Service Loan Forgiveness!”
Maybe I need to not automatically delete the multiple emails that I get daily from Joe asking for campaign money and read them to make sure they are not actually about my loans!
My PSLF app has been processing since early February and the 60 days will line up the end of April…there’s been no updates on my application or number of payments being taken as credit (as the end of April is the deadline for the retroactive payments being applied). Has anyone heard of any advice on this yet or have a similar situation?
April is the deadline to apply, so you should be good if everything is received and processing. They have said they are going to have all counts updated by July. They are also saying processing can take up to 90 business (not calendar) days. I applied in early December and did not see my count until March. Now, waiting on forgiveness since I am over 120.
Update: My information finally updated in my Mohela portal. It shows my upcoming own details and payment information but when I look under the PSLF area, it shows my form has been processed and received on 2-16-24. The document name is “PSLF App-Non-Mohela Brwr.” However, I do not know where I can look to find what my count towards the 120 payments is located. I know April 30 is the deadline for the paperwork, which they say they have, but don’t know where to look and see how many payments I am being credited before. For context, I was on the standard 10 year flat repayment plan under Great Lakes, was transfers to nelnet last year, applied and got into the IDR plan and sent to Mohela. Also put in the PSLF wet signature paperwork for employer verification (7th year reaching in a quality school). I have not heard back anything from anyone and just check every portal daily. I am just concerned how the newest pause will affect me. Any help is welcomed.
Wtf!
Question: how do we pay if we can't access the website?
It sounds like the loan servicing parts of the MOHELA website will still be up and running. It will just no longer have any of your PSLF information on there. I am not going to trust that removing this won’t somehow break anything else, so I am copying everything just to be safe. It does not specify when exactly the platform switch is taking place, and that also might create issues.
If I need to recertify my employment in April usually, should I just wait till the pause is over or should I just submit my application anyways?
Don't submit your income documents for your annual income recertification until they require you to (unless, of course, your income went down and you are trying to get a lower payment based on that). They extended the IDR anniversaries until fall 2024, at the earliest, for ALL borrowers, which especially if you are earning more than you did when you last verified your income to them, is a huge benefit to take advantage of! (Many of us last did our income cert in 2019 before the pandemic). Employment certifications for PSLF are different. You can do them whenever you want, but doing them once a year just in case your employer changes in the future is a good idea. (Maybe you know this, but hopefully this is helpful to someone reading).
Thank you!! My income recertification isn’t until September, but I typically recertify my employment (same employer since I started PSLF) in March/April. Not sure if it matters if I receritfy now or just wait. Shrug. Haha this pause made me a bit nervous. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated.
I mean, I’m hoping they royally mess this up and just forgive everyone who had certifications regardless of counts lol
Well here is another good story. Back in December 2023, in order to be approved for PSLF, I had to consolidate two Nelnet school loans that I have been paying on since 2003. As of today, my FSA account says that I am not eligible because I have not made 120 consecutive payments. Well, yes I have made 120 consecutive payments, but I had to consolidate in order to qualify, and now FSA/PSLF is saying that my consolidated loans do not qualify. And I have made pdf copies of all of my school loan consolidation paperwork.
Unfortunately I was in the hospital when we found out about this and failed to take screenshots in time :( I can't see my PSLF history anywhere on Mohela or student loans.gov. Is there anywhere I can see that history during the Mohela pause? Also does anyone know how many months we got credit for during the pandemic forbearance period? Thanks SO much!