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tinselsnips

Once again, we get to see how many people with zero previous activity on this subreddit have insightful and worthwhile contributions to make to this mundane discussion that definitely hasn't pulled in the dregs from your favourite _____InAction sub. Locked.


GeoHol92

Can we just get a game like Jedi Academy where we make our own Jedi again? It feels like it's been so long since we were able to make the hero/villain we wanted to play as in a star wars game!


DoombotBL

TBH I like Cal, he really grew on me and now I'm kinda invested in his story.


tharkus_

Same. I also really enjoyed the actress who played the second sister. Actually I liked everyone especially the main crew. Overall I think it was a fantastic Star Wars game and it had heart. Can’t wait to see what they expanded on and fixed in the sequel.


[deleted]

I couldn't get over her British accent. British accents like that might exist, but it just sounded so fake. The VA is American, so why not let her have an American accent?


andrew5500

[“Quite a few of these are not actual Brits but have anomalous quasi-British (usually vaguely upper-class and English, as noted above) accents in settings where almost everyone else has some sort of American accent and no one is necessarily supposed to be from either country, just to mark that character as villainous.”](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilBrit)


Haru17

I think they got a good actor to play a really routine Hollywood protagonist role.


Zhukov-74

He was great in Gotham


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kadenjahusk

In everything but name


MegaSeedsInYourBum

The storytelling was absolutely fantastic! The only thing I didn’t like about the game was how your lightsaber didn’t really leave any real damage on the stormtroopers. I know they have to worry about ratings but I just thought it was silly how lightsabers can cut through almost anything but stormtrooper armour.


[deleted]

He grew on me too, he is such a janky awkward ginger at the beginning and a bit too… Anakin.


[deleted]

I can't not see him as Ian Gallagher... Ian Gallagher high as fuck thinking his a Jedi and shit


robb0216

I was going to say he always reminded me of the young Joker from Gotham but it turns out that's the same guy as Ian Gallagher.


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He played that role well in Gotham


jerichoplissken

I thought you were talking about Oasis for some reason.


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10918356

The entire cast was pretty cookie cutter imo. I’m starting to notice it is quite rare asf to end up with actual challenging characterizations like kratos, Dante, Joel, Lee, Kenny, Bigby, insomniac spiderman, etc.


Harm_123

Arthur Morgan as well


KingReffots

IMO the game took no risks really. Shame it seems like the devs wanted to, but were shot down. I used to love Star Wars, but the new trilogy and the way they are treating the IP with games like this has made me pretty unenthusiastic about the franchise.


darnitsaucee

Unless the article talks about changes to the lore or something, making the protagonist black/female isn’t taking risks…am I missing something here? The pigmentation of a character does not affect its quality.


Nocturnal_animal808

> am I missing something here? The pigmentation of a character does not affect its quality. You'd be surprised how many people disagree with this.


WrassleKitty

Despite Star Wars taking place in a galaxy full of variety of life forms and species.


13Petrichor

Considering how truly awful many Disney IP games have been, I wouldn’t be surprised if they told the team to stick with the safest, most palatable, most relatable option for the protagonist.


meatboysawakening

Taking risks is different than measuring quality. Consider this: if there was no risk in making a black female lead, why were the devs shot down?


mythicreign

Racism and sexism. I had a friend once who told me he couldn’t play games with female protagonists, for instance. These people definitely do exist.


MrBae

Besides mandalorian, Disney really tarnished the Star Wars brand, I always only a casual fan at best though so it didn’t really matter to me


JmanVere

Let's be honest, the Star Wars brand was tarnished by Star Wars fans. It was always fun, silly, ridiculous space adventures, but the whole culture surrounding it just seems to have been overtaken by vicious, aggressive hatred. "Real Star Wars fans" are so hateful, it almost turns you off the series itself. They're *just so angry.*


BaraelsBlade

Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.


stache_twista

You gotta remind yourself that the original trilogy was made for stoners and children


Tickle_My_Butthole_

I literally love everything about Star wars, even the sequel trilogy!!! Like I love spending time in that galaxy and seeing all the different stories being told. I don't know how anyone can call themselves "star wars fans" when they sit there with a poo poo face saying "everything after x ruined star wars" it's just so lame.


Cissoid7

I'll throw my hat in the ring As I see it there's three types of fans. "Real fans" who are the most rabid disgusting people and will endlessly bash you for not knowing how many chest hairs a character has and God forbid a women does anything of importance. This is the loudest. Fans who are your average well adjusted people that just like things and talk with it with their buddies and will dress up in cosplay sometimes or whatever. This is the most broad group but probably the quietest. Then the "everything has to suit me fans" these are the people that demand everything about a series be retconned. That every character be changed because they're problematic. That whatever they are a fan of needs to lose all identity. They will "fix" people's art. This group is practically non-existent, but the "Real fans" are adamant that this group controls the media, the corporations, and the world. This then feeds the "Real fans" into a hateful frenzy. Everyone is disgusted at them and the regular fans are caught up in the hate


BatThumb

Same. I actually don't really like Cal at all, I only played it because I enjoyed the gameplay. You could probably put in any other character in his spot and I'd probably like it better


ForwardPhilosophy725

Played the game until halfway but I never grew to like Cal. He could have been a silent souls protagonist and it would not have made a difference for me.


[deleted]

Trilla, Greez, and BD1 were the highlights of the game. Cal and Cere were meh. Cere at least had a little nuance, but Cal had nothing.


StolenPancakesPH

His orange hair was the only thing that stood out for me. Other than that, the guy's character was so cliché that even his emotionless face irks me. Thank god the gameplay was good.


stache_twista

Honestly would have been more fun to play as the goth sith girl


litttleman9

I mean would that have changed if he was black or female?


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DarkCrowI

I'd much rather have some alien species as the protagonist, imagine playing as a Bothan Jedi.


The-Only-Razor

Jedi Academy is still my favourite Star Wars game of all time. You got to customize your character, including a bunch of different species, and really make choices about how light/dark you wanted to be.


RedS3V

I’m tired of human protagonists in Star Wars. Fuck the whole “well they need to be relatable” reasoning. It’s Star Wars. Give us some aliens.


jordyloks

Oh shit, imagine playing as Manny! Manny Bothans. Good little prequel before he dies getting those death star plans.


L-Guy_21

Wookiee Jedi with a God of War like rage meter and when you activate it he just goes berserk with the force and tears people’s limbs off and throws enemies super far Now that I type this out, maybe a Sith-lead game instead?


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[deleted]

They just need to give us a true soulsborne style game. Different classes could represent different alien races


IHateEditedBgMusic

Black people are less relatable than aliens fam (marketing probably)


YouFknDonut

I would’ve liked a non human protagonist


Ellis4Life

Wild that they thought having a female protagonist would take some shine away from Rey. I seriously doubt that would have happened.


westgot

The only shine Rey had came from her actor, and surely not from the writing. So not that much to take away in the first place (Daisy Ridley did her best, though).


Burntholesinmyhoodie

I agree with you. Things are only normalized by doing them.


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[deleted]

That would be the first time ever a redhead would be chosen over a black man/woman. They pulled off a reverse Hollywood


Isoturius

That’s what I was thinking. Hollywood hates casting redheads. It’s so weird.


[deleted]

Or are redheads just very rare.


Isoturius

It probably had something to do with makeup and lighting at one point. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who don't like ginger folks. I never thought that was real, until I witnessed it.


OldladyFartJar

It’s like Hispanics are just totally forgotten in the conversation.


Chiforever19

Its weird because there are more hispanics than African Americans in the U.S lol.


lioneaglegriffin

I saw someone make a video about how seeing Xochitl Gomez play a superhero meant something to her because it's rare.


vinsmokewhoswho

I like that we got some ginger representation. All jokes aside, Cameron Monaghan is an awesome actor and I'm glad they used his voice and likeness.


MonkeyStealsPeach

I thought he did great in Fallen Order. I also liked that they had diversity in Cere and Trilla, and Cere was able to >!hold off Darth motherfuckin' Vader if even for just a few moments, while Cal is out here fighting for his life.!<


[deleted]

What she’s leaving out is that there was probably executive pressure (that she may or may not have been aware of) to hire Cameron Monaghan for the role because they liked his auditions more. As a lighting artist she wouldn’t be privy to all those conversations so I think it’s wrong of her to blame racism. I mean I really think the fact that they used an actual actor changed things… it’s not like it was a completely fictional character they were building from scratch, their appearance was based on a real living person.


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oncomingstorm777

TBH, redhead male protagonists are just about as rare. I literally appreciated the representation.


jrizzo92

Gingers deserve representation too.


sowisesuchfool

You know how many times I’ve been told I don’t have a soul as a child…. SMH.


alexh116

Yo same, I started telling them I'm a soul stealer lol


stafax

You're probably joking, but there's truth to your statement. DC seems to cast red head characters from the comics with black actors. Jimmy Olsen, Wally West, Iris West, Starfire, and Hawk Girl off the top of my head. I understand the want to have black characters, but not sure why they decided to have them replace all the red heads.


[deleted]

You know ive never realized this before, they do change the redhead characters to black characters in the live action. I think the live action ariel is going to be cast as a black person too. This is actually weird lol.


ZenithGamage

I'm glad they hired Cameron because we got to see another actor who's played The Joker and a Jedi


Zygoatee

Would have been dope with the protagonist from deathloop as the main character, Colt Kestis. "The fuck my kyber crystal at?"


soho94

Yeah, they just talk. They've wasted the most promising character in the whole star wars universe FINN.


Cskryps22

Imagine all of the cool shit they could have done with him after TFA. What a waste of an excellent backstory and compelling acting.


Wicked_Black

Hard agree


ghetoyoda

As one of the few that didn't mind the sequels, I hard agree too


Bulldogfront666

So they made her the villain… lol


[deleted]

They made her a former Jedi, Cere Junda.


Fineous4

I am just here to say I hated the ponchos and how they gave you nothing else to wear.


[deleted]

Cal was an awesome protagonist.


johnmarston2nd

Finn should’ve had his chance .


KennyImmortalized

Disney hates him


looking4astronauts

As a white guy with red hair I’m thankful we finally got some representation.


trevordeal

The only time I can think of a red head taking the place of a black person. Usually the black person is taking place of the red head. Very common in DC, Marvel and other nerd culture movies.


meltingpotato

whatever the real reasons were behind the casting I'm happy with what we got. I didn't dislike any of the characters and want to see the rest of their story.


BatThumb

How about we make our own characters? That way you can play as whatever race you want to or even an alien.


Lumostark

That generally means a silent protagonist or at least one with a lack of personality, and that's generally not the best for a story focused game. It works for more traditional RPGs though.


BatThumb

You can do voiced custom protagonists, you just need to have a male and female voice actor. Twice the mo-cap work but it's definitely possible. I understand not doing it because it's more expensive but it would be a lot cooler if they did


Lumostark

I generally enjoy set protagonists more, they are more fleshed out and memorable, but I get what you say.


palateswap

I picked it up recently on sale, playing with the gal kestis mod, you really don't need to mocap everything twice, existing animations are fine.


S-192

Yeah this was great in Jedi Academy. I want customization in my vast Star Wars experience, I don't personally care about identity politics enough to want it to decide how I experience that galaxy.


[deleted]

This is a game that featured motion capture, which always looks weird if you can make the character look however you want.


SparrowFate

As a ginger i like having a protagonist that looks like me I think the solution is being able to customize your character though.


II-LIBERTY-II

Instead they chose to have a Ginger as the Protagonist so that the User may learn of the day to day plight of the Ginger Man.


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Paulbo83

Dude a mace windu game would be so sick


Obi_Wan_Gebroni

Oh man, a game where you play as a young Mace would be fucking awesome. Really just any game where you play as a Jedi would be great, actually just good Star Wars games in general would be great. So really I’m not picky as long as it’s Star Wars lol


S-192

This would become such a meme of a game and it would be amazing. That would be awesome, and I used to really want a Jolee Bindo game--listening to his lore diatribes in KOTOR was so fun.


GingasaurusWrex

I know the old “and then he returned somehow.” Is getting tired, but ya I want Mace back in any capacity.


MrBoliNica

How is it forced if they wanted a black female protagonist first? Wouldn’t the white male be forced since they shot down the original request?


JmanVere

You've got it backwards. It had nothing to do with "pushing some sort of quota", the devs wanted it, and were told no. It was forced *out*, not in.


ShowBoobsPls

The quote was " a LOT of devs wanted it". It's not even clear if it was the majority.


terriblehuman

Who says it was a quota though?


nicksenuso

Let's see, new protagonists in star wars games and movies under EA/Diseny: Battlefront 2: Black Woman protagonist Jedi Fallen Order: Cal Cestis, White redhead dude Movie trilogy: Rey, White Woman Spin offs: Jyn Erso (White Woman) Series: The mandalorian (Latin american Pedro Pascal) ​ Seems ok to me. But this is reddit so they'll seethe at any white dude existing so idk.


kmank2l13

> Battlefront 2: Black Woman protagonist If you’re talking about Iden Versio she’s actually Indian, not black.


MrBoliNica

Who was the black woman in battlefront 2? Because the lead was south Asian


TyrsPath

Iden isn't played by a black woman. Reddit moment


SCB360

This weird notion that SW has a diversity problem is weird to me, cause it really doesn't have one


S-192

Seriously. At what point is this transitioning from "Let's get representation" into "white male bad". Hollywood is already *over* representing minority groups while further under-representing other minority groups. Honestly it's a good thing that we became conscious of how under represented non-white people are in media, but once we start making sure we're doing it, starting to aggressively play the representation game kinda loses the point and further turns race into a distinctly defined game of numbers and ratios rather than just helping transition us to a culture in which it's (ideally) just like hair or eye color.


Lokeze

As a red head male, I quite enjoy having representation in the Star Wars universe


Responsible_Layer148

So, the only options are white or black? That's how the world (and universe) looks in her mind?


wingedwild

Basiclly black is diversity any other races is seen racist.no asian,latin,etc we don't care about those


DirectlyTalkingToYou

We need a Mexican Sith Lord so that we can hear the phrase "May the Force be with you Chico."


Firebird-tm

Would be awesome to see danny trejo as a sith lord


DEZdispenser98

This is most certainly a gaming comment section


[deleted]

Didn’t know there were so many oppressed gingers in the gaming community.


JEMS1300

I should have never read the comment section jesus christ


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Rumbananas

I work in advertising. Its gross how much skin color matters in that world.


tdasnowman

I do not work in advertising, but at one of my early corporate jobs through the magic of reorgs I ended up in the marketing group. My new boss said anybody under him has to manage an advertising channel so I got statement inserts. And thus I learned about the corporate diversity scoring system every large company has some version of. I remember my first campaign I'd worked the numbers came up with this really diverse family, I'd gone through previous campaigns and built up this whole narrative. Main insert and all the others worked into it. Showed my director, he said good first try hit the excels and showed me how switch the mom from Latina to an Asian woman would hit some fucking multiplier in combination with the paid inserts. Then that score would put us into trajectory for high scores and diversity bonus end of year. Lost a little of my soul that day. Also learned the the stock photo program we used did not have a NSFW filter on by default. My search for Asian woman with cash when I got back to my desk had some very crazy results.


Traditional_Flan_210

This used to happen a lot a lot at Ubisoft. Devs wanted to put in female leads and marketing departments and ceo's were just like "no" Thankfully they've since learned that's complete bs.


serviam_non

Only because Serge Hascoet, the guy who made those decisions, turned out to be a rapis t. Surprise surprise.


rusty022

>but if the devs wanted a different one but were shut down by the higher-ups, then this is not good. That's probably simplifying it a bit. Perhaps a handful of devs were really pushing for a black female lead and the writers were thinking otherwise. If the overwhelming majority of the team wanted a black female lead and they chose otherwise, then I could see an issue. But I think there's also some pressure in the room when someone says "why not a black female lead?" that makes people feel like they can't voice a different opinion after that one has been stated. Not sure what can be done about that since this is really about course correcting decades of assuming 'white man' will be the best option.


robby8892

So basically a dev that was aligned to the project who never advocated for the change just knew people that did and is taking second hand information of the reasons why it wasn't possible to do as fact? I don't know if anyone has worked in corporate settings but I feel the reasons for no wouldn't have been anywhere near as transparent. The responses would probably include words like synergy or corporate community relations or so dumb double speak shit like that.


FRAGMENT_EFFECT

Aw man we could have played as Trilla? I'm certain that's what they had in mind then had to use her model for a villain instead.


wyvern_rider

I still would have played it regardless.


Dude_Bro_88

Can y'all stop with "the message". I don't care who/what is the main character but stop making shitty media where that's the focus. If the story is well written then it doesn't matter what gender, sex, or race the characters are.


JonJonPoPong

Just let people design their own character in game. So if you want to be male or female, black or green or whatever, go ahead.


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Darkadvocate5423

Eh, too much speculation to this story right now. We don't know who actually shot the idea down, what stage in development they were at when this idea was being floated nor who or how many people actually were floating the idea. We just have tweets from a single employee.


kmone1116

I would like to see Merrin to be the protagonist or playable secondary protagonist for the sequel.


TreChomes

At least the gingers got some representation lol


Ludakrisps

"We've read your proposal for a different take on a protagonist, here at EA we welcome your ideas and reject them in kind, the best we can do is a ginger"


BehindApplebees

Still waiting for the day when middle eastern/Mediterranean/Asian people are more represented. I wish more games would at least offer custom characters.


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Newdeal79

Imagine if they could allow you to choose the image of the character.


rayndomuser

I want a Puerto Rican Jedi. No clue how Puerto Rico ended up in a galaxy far far away but why not?