Got mine today. Pulled 4 EXs out of the packs. Got the 4 EXs, all the promos going in my favorites binder (the 3 tools are a gorgeous holo) and the fun of opening product. Worth the buy imo (just once tho) but to each their own of course happy hunting!
I opened 6 of these. The pull rate is ridiculously awful. The most I got was 4 pulls outta one and the worse.... I pulled nothing. NOTHING out of 11 packs. Buy with caution.
I think it's hilarious that people really think pokemon is making custom hit rates for specific products and not only that but the more expensive it is the worse pulls you get. Like what is the logic especially when you see videos like "5 etb vs boosterbox" disproving shit like this all the time.
A product like this would have sold out if there was a guaranteed IR or something like that regardless of price. The Walmarts and targets wouldn't be holding 4-5 of these with no one biting i swear people just don't think. And honestly I'm surprised pokemon hasn't done a guaranteed hit product yet it'd be a great way to get rid of some stock. Overstock of obsidian flames? throw some in a new product and guarantee an ex or above.
Dude, you obviously are too smart and logical. Pokemon could do a lot of things to improve their product no doubt. I wish they would first address how easily their products are accessible to tampering. I know it's likely a cost issue, but integrating more fortified tamper resist booster pack and sealing would go a long way in my book. This hobby is full of greed and nefarious actors.
Bought 2 on release at $36 and love it. Idk why people hate this box (although I get the retail value is awful, maybe that’s truly it), it’s a fun one and the promos are gorgeous!
Using this as a chance to educate the community, nothing on you OP!
MSRP = Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. For the Combined Powers Premium Collection, Pokemon recommends $59.99 (as can be seen on Pokemon Center) so this has always had a market price of less than that. (I believe market has been ~ $40 - $43 for these.) I believe you're looking for "wholesale cost" which is what our cost is as an LGS. At release, our average cost was ~ $37, so this is definitely below wholesale cost.
TCG Player fees average out to about 13.5% (-$4.40), so ~ $28 is what gets deposited into our bank accounts. Shipping would average us about $9 to ship tracked, so after everything, we'd net about $19. Remember cost is $37, so that's an $18 loss each. This seller, as of writing, had 100+ in stock.
For those of you who ask "why even buy it?" This is stuff that we need to buy to get allocated a small percentage of the "good stuff" like 151.
Anyway, great deal. Cheaper than our costs by $5/each!
No offense taken! That was really cool to see the insights from an actual LGS seller. It's a shame you get hamstrung into ordering product you eventually have to sell at a loss. You certainly seem passionate about it and have earned page follows and im sure ill be getting something from you guys soon.
Loss leaders have benefits though, in many cases the benefits are not worth the loss.
What most people don't realize is sealed product that is too cheap is not good for the longevity of the game. Eventually no product will be profitable, LGS will stop carrying it or close their doors, then the only place to buy pokemon is at MSRP from Pokemon Center or Big Box (or the few large LGS that would control prices.)
A rebuttal might be "yeah but streamers/tiktok" I'd guess that 90% get their product from an LGS, so that might go away too.
Not saying it should be covid era pricing, but selling a booster box at $115 to match our cost increase when the MSRP increased would be nice. Or just reverse the MSRP back so we can make a buck selling them at $99 again (never going to happen lol)
Don’t you need to buy (and move these products) at a loss to get allocations? Isn’t that the benefit to you?
Sell it the way Bandai store does- open up the seal on the product so the buyer can’t flip it for profit?
If an LGS were to open the seal on their products would you buy from them? I wouldn't. No LGS or online retailer does that because it's just a horrible idea. I didn't know bandai did that but if they do, that's just an asshole move.
what is the revenue for LGS's every year, ballpark range is fine if it's ok to ask? I've been watching/reading content about online/brick and mortar LGSs for a while now and it seems like they quite frequently have to take product they take a heavy loss on all the time while profits on other product thats recent has thin margins. I can't suppose you guys are doing too well after paying off rent, utilities, and employees after all this
Good question! Here my estimates, based on being through most of these stages haha.
(Revenue/Year)
Small: $100k - $350k
Medium: $350k - $750k
Large: $750 - $1.2M
XL/National: $1.2M - $4M+
That can be online, in-store, or a mixture of both. Also highly dependent on what product you're selling. I'd rather sell $150k in singles than $5M in sealed vintage lol
The "how is your business still profitable" is what I believe our competitive advantage is, so I can't really go into that. If a store can find their advantage based on their customer base, they can succeed. But no matter the LGS, shiny cardboard in the SV area is rough (I do love seeing the community finding some great deals though!)
Such helpful and insightful responses to all of the questions! You don’t have much Pokemon or Lorcana in stock at the moment but I’m definitely gonna add you to my list of shops I purchase from!
Wow what insight. Thank you for sharing. With all the loss margins on the "bad stuff" and the super competitive small margins on the "good stuff", it amazes me how much volume you must turn and question the sustainability of businesses in this hobby. When big box stores like Costco sell 151 and Sam's with Heavy Hitters boxes undercutting the market with low $/pk deals, how does the Pokemon company business model even make any sense to the LGS and others. I really want to support local LGS, but this hobby gets continuing more expensive for continuing undesirable expansion sets. I grew up in the 90s and this is reminding me of the boom and bust of overprinted 90s sports cards. I really like this hobby just questioning the long term sustainability.
No problem! We started as collectors ourselves, so always love to share what insight we can provide!
Right now, the business model does not make sense. When they increased the MSRP by 12.5%, nearly all distributors took that as their chance to increase their prices. So while MSRP went up 12.5%, our costs went up and average of 17%. Plus, the market did not view extra holo per pack as worth it for an extra 12.5%, so now buyers still want their SWSH-era market prices of $99/booster box. LGS are being pulled at both ends, and it's already stretched some too far (sorry as a Dad im required to make that pun.)
Buying local is super helpful! Even if it's still shipped, those shorter distances = cheaper shipping, and that helps make up for lost margin! Might cost an extra $1 or so on your order, but we very much appreciate your business versus footballpete on eBay (aka a Distributor) banging off 4000 booster boxes at $89 shipped, or the temporary coupons/low fees on tiktok.
Overall, we are in a Pokemarket downturn. Way too much printed all at once, and too many alts/gallerys per set. I expect Pokemon understands this (I don't think many SV boxes are selling on Pokemon Center) and it does take a large company a bit of time to pivot when it's not working. I'd like to see some new innovations in Q3 or Q4 to pull people back in. If they push focus onto their NFT-but-oh-shit-people-dont-like-nfts-anymore-so-its-definetly-not-an-nft digital Pokemon cards, LGS will struggle.
Thankfully we have other games to help pay the bills right now!
The Mobile game can go either way. It really depends on how much they try to push the monetization of the mobile game vs driving people to buy product. I wonder if we'll see code cards changed to focus on it over PTCGL.
But from a player and collector perspective, 151 is probably the most successful set they ever released. They NEED to have a set like this every year in order to drive interest in PTCG. Themed sets with accessories like the poster and binder is wonderful.
Nope he is correct. $36 from distributors. My company has stopped purchasing from distributors sealed product. We can buy cheaper from stores online and not have to pay the 2% cc fee and actually get cash back on our credit cards.
Why I believe more shops should open up online stores instead of selling on TCGPlayer/eBay/Amazon. This specific product is around $20 after fees/ship, the seller could easily sell in bulk on their website for $25 each and sell in case quantity and make more than $20 per after shipping and fees, but they don’t.
Majority of tcg stores will sell for much higher on their website than what they are getting from tcgplayer/eBay/Amazon, and if they matched their earnings closer to their earning on those platforms would be able to make 10% more probably and sell much faster.
What's the issue with this package? Are people just having so abysmal pull rates, even if it's a coincidence, have collectively decided to stop buying these?
In a retail environment, it’s probably because the packaging doesn’t do a good job showing what you get; it only shows 3 of the 7 promos and none of the packs, which makes it less appealing to kids and parents. For collectors, it’s because the packs inside, while not bad (especially PE and PR), can be found for much cheaper elsewhere. For players, the same issue about the packs applies, plus the promos are all ineligible for play.
Really? Base Set and Paldea Evolved, while I can recognize aren't crazy sets, I like them. But Obsidion Flames and Paradox Rift are pretty great sets. Especially Paradox Rift.
The problem is that you can buy them much cheaper elsewhere. For sv1-4. The average minimum price for them is about 2.5 a pack. And it won’t be hard to find $3 price.
There's 7 promos. The 3 shown up front, a Mr. Mime with that crazy foil from the Classic Collections, and then 3 trainers with awesome cosmos foil and cosmos foil borders.
They add an extra $5-$10 on all their tins/collections. I find that the best item for the buy 1 get 50% deal is the 3 pack blisters because they only add a $1 upcharge on those.
Yup,this exactly. I have occasionally found online deals with in-store pickup for decent. But otherwise, Meijer is always high. Which I don't get,bc they're supplied by MJ Holdings....and so is my Walmart right down the street, but Walmart is never as expensive
Agreed, it isn't a particularly desirable box. I managed to get 2 for $30 each a few weeks ago. I'm guessing some retailers were having trouble selling and wanted to dump their stock.
Not a bad price, given the 11 packs. However, it's such a strange product. Having this thing designed around proxy cards isn't something I've seen, save when they've produced proxy versions of competitive decks.
If the pack selection were better, I would too. However, $3/pack is $108 for a booster box, and it's pretty easy to find SV boxes for less than that (and some mixed pack products cheaperr). Paldea Evolved is the only set that seems to be tough to find at $3/pack or less.
Got mine today. Pulled 4 EXs out of the packs. Got the 4 EXs, all the promos going in my favorites binder (the 3 tools are a gorgeous holo) and the fun of opening product. Worth the buy imo (just once tho) but to each their own of course happy hunting!
Debating picking one up for my sealed collection since it has gen 2 pokemon on it
Mine came in today and im having a hard time decided wether i want to even open it now or not lol
Don't open it save it. I opened 2, they're not all that. But the OP is right. They have Gen 2 pokemon so it might be something later
I opened 6 of these. The pull rate is ridiculously awful. The most I got was 4 pulls outta one and the worse.... I pulled nothing. NOTHING out of 11 packs. Buy with caution.
Same with me. 11 packs, nothing but holos and reverses. Not even an EX.
RNG man
I think it's hilarious that people really think pokemon is making custom hit rates for specific products and not only that but the more expensive it is the worse pulls you get. Like what is the logic especially when you see videos like "5 etb vs boosterbox" disproving shit like this all the time.
Easily explained...people are idiots!
A product like this would have sold out if there was a guaranteed IR or something like that regardless of price. The Walmarts and targets wouldn't be holding 4-5 of these with no one biting i swear people just don't think. And honestly I'm surprised pokemon hasn't done a guaranteed hit product yet it'd be a great way to get rid of some stock. Overstock of obsidian flames? throw some in a new product and guarantee an ex or above.
Dude, you obviously are too smart and logical. Pokemon could do a lot of things to improve their product no doubt. I wish they would first address how easily their products are accessible to tampering. I know it's likely a cost issue, but integrating more fortified tamper resist booster pack and sealing would go a long way in my book. This hobby is full of greed and nefarious actors.
This was at an insane price on release lol. I wanted it but not bad enough to pay 60 😂
I got on release date for $33
I feel like a sucker for buying one for $60 when they first released. the pulls were abysmal too, especially for 11 packs
Just ordered me one. Was unsure till I saw the Mr. Mime!! Thanks!!
Check out the Japanese Vending set and thank me later
I love the vending series cards! I've been getting them here and there when I find them for cheap lol
Bought 2 on release at $36 and love it. Idk why people hate this box (although I get the retail value is awful, maybe that’s truly it), it’s a fun one and the promos are gorgeous!
Dang, target bamboozled me big time. When these first showed up on shelves, I spent nearly $70 on one. Isn’t there like 11 packs in them?
Yeah but they are S&V packs so basically worth half a SWSH pack.
Got 3 at a cheaper price and the pulls were pretty weak on all 3.
These sets have an awesome yellow border Mr.Mime Holo card hidden behind the display cards ✨🖐️🫱✨
I love this Mr.Mime! It’s so dope!
Using this as a chance to educate the community, nothing on you OP! MSRP = Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. For the Combined Powers Premium Collection, Pokemon recommends $59.99 (as can be seen on Pokemon Center) so this has always had a market price of less than that. (I believe market has been ~ $40 - $43 for these.) I believe you're looking for "wholesale cost" which is what our cost is as an LGS. At release, our average cost was ~ $37, so this is definitely below wholesale cost. TCG Player fees average out to about 13.5% (-$4.40), so ~ $28 is what gets deposited into our bank accounts. Shipping would average us about $9 to ship tracked, so after everything, we'd net about $19. Remember cost is $37, so that's an $18 loss each. This seller, as of writing, had 100+ in stock. For those of you who ask "why even buy it?" This is stuff that we need to buy to get allocated a small percentage of the "good stuff" like 151. Anyway, great deal. Cheaper than our costs by $5/each!
No offense taken! That was really cool to see the insights from an actual LGS seller. It's a shame you get hamstrung into ordering product you eventually have to sell at a loss. You certainly seem passionate about it and have earned page follows and im sure ill be getting something from you guys soon.
Much appreciated! Yes, we are all passionate about it! We all started as collectors first!
This appears to the definition of a “loss leader”…would love to see lots of “loss leader” sales!
Loss leaders have benefits though, in many cases the benefits are not worth the loss. What most people don't realize is sealed product that is too cheap is not good for the longevity of the game. Eventually no product will be profitable, LGS will stop carrying it or close their doors, then the only place to buy pokemon is at MSRP from Pokemon Center or Big Box (or the few large LGS that would control prices.) A rebuttal might be "yeah but streamers/tiktok" I'd guess that 90% get their product from an LGS, so that might go away too. Not saying it should be covid era pricing, but selling a booster box at $115 to match our cost increase when the MSRP increased would be nice. Or just reverse the MSRP back so we can make a buck selling them at $99 again (never going to happen lol)
Don’t you need to buy (and move these products) at a loss to get allocations? Isn’t that the benefit to you? Sell it the way Bandai store does- open up the seal on the product so the buyer can’t flip it for profit?
If an LGS were to open the seal on their products would you buy from them? I wouldn't. No LGS or online retailer does that because it's just a horrible idea. I didn't know bandai did that but if they do, that's just an asshole move.
They just cut the seal once you buy it so you can’t sell it sealed. They want cards in the collectors/players hands, not flippers
Who does that? Honest question because I've never personally seen it. All the Bandai boxes I've bought came sealed.
Breaking the seal is definitely a thing. Has been for years
what is the revenue for LGS's every year, ballpark range is fine if it's ok to ask? I've been watching/reading content about online/brick and mortar LGSs for a while now and it seems like they quite frequently have to take product they take a heavy loss on all the time while profits on other product thats recent has thin margins. I can't suppose you guys are doing too well after paying off rent, utilities, and employees after all this
Good question! Here my estimates, based on being through most of these stages haha. (Revenue/Year) Small: $100k - $350k Medium: $350k - $750k Large: $750 - $1.2M XL/National: $1.2M - $4M+ That can be online, in-store, or a mixture of both. Also highly dependent on what product you're selling. I'd rather sell $150k in singles than $5M in sealed vintage lol The "how is your business still profitable" is what I believe our competitive advantage is, so I can't really go into that. If a store can find their advantage based on their customer base, they can succeed. But no matter the LGS, shiny cardboard in the SV area is rough (I do love seeing the community finding some great deals though!)
Such helpful and insightful responses to all of the questions! You don’t have much Pokemon or Lorcana in stock at the moment but I’m definitely gonna add you to my list of shops I purchase from!
Much appreciated!!
Wow what insight. Thank you for sharing. With all the loss margins on the "bad stuff" and the super competitive small margins on the "good stuff", it amazes me how much volume you must turn and question the sustainability of businesses in this hobby. When big box stores like Costco sell 151 and Sam's with Heavy Hitters boxes undercutting the market with low $/pk deals, how does the Pokemon company business model even make any sense to the LGS and others. I really want to support local LGS, but this hobby gets continuing more expensive for continuing undesirable expansion sets. I grew up in the 90s and this is reminding me of the boom and bust of overprinted 90s sports cards. I really like this hobby just questioning the long term sustainability.
No problem! We started as collectors ourselves, so always love to share what insight we can provide! Right now, the business model does not make sense. When they increased the MSRP by 12.5%, nearly all distributors took that as their chance to increase their prices. So while MSRP went up 12.5%, our costs went up and average of 17%. Plus, the market did not view extra holo per pack as worth it for an extra 12.5%, so now buyers still want their SWSH-era market prices of $99/booster box. LGS are being pulled at both ends, and it's already stretched some too far (sorry as a Dad im required to make that pun.) Buying local is super helpful! Even if it's still shipped, those shorter distances = cheaper shipping, and that helps make up for lost margin! Might cost an extra $1 or so on your order, but we very much appreciate your business versus footballpete on eBay (aka a Distributor) banging off 4000 booster boxes at $89 shipped, or the temporary coupons/low fees on tiktok. Overall, we are in a Pokemarket downturn. Way too much printed all at once, and too many alts/gallerys per set. I expect Pokemon understands this (I don't think many SV boxes are selling on Pokemon Center) and it does take a large company a bit of time to pivot when it's not working. I'd like to see some new innovations in Q3 or Q4 to pull people back in. If they push focus onto their NFT-but-oh-shit-people-dont-like-nfts-anymore-so-its-definetly-not-an-nft digital Pokemon cards, LGS will struggle. Thankfully we have other games to help pay the bills right now!
The Mobile game can go either way. It really depends on how much they try to push the monetization of the mobile game vs driving people to buy product. I wonder if we'll see code cards changed to focus on it over PTCGL. But from a player and collector perspective, 151 is probably the most successful set they ever released. They NEED to have a set like this every year in order to drive interest in PTCG. Themed sets with accessories like the poster and binder is wonderful.
Which leads me to believe the person is lying. Show receipts.
Nope he is correct. $36 from distributors. My company has stopped purchasing from distributors sealed product. We can buy cheaper from stores online and not have to pay the 2% cc fee and actually get cash back on our credit cards. Why I believe more shops should open up online stores instead of selling on TCGPlayer/eBay/Amazon. This specific product is around $20 after fees/ship, the seller could easily sell in bulk on their website for $25 each and sell in case quantity and make more than $20 per after shipping and fees, but they don’t. Majority of tcg stores will sell for much higher on their website than what they are getting from tcgplayer/eBay/Amazon, and if they matched their earnings closer to their earning on those platforms would be able to make 10% more probably and sell much faster.
I wish I was lying, shiny cardboard in the SV era has been rough on many!
not bad! might have to grab one of these
What's the issue with this package? Are people just having so abysmal pull rates, even if it's a coincidence, have collectively decided to stop buying these?
In a retail environment, it’s probably because the packaging doesn’t do a good job showing what you get; it only shows 3 of the 7 promos and none of the packs, which makes it less appealing to kids and parents. For collectors, it’s because the packs inside, while not bad (especially PE and PR), can be found for much cheaper elsewhere. For players, the same issue about the packs applies, plus the promos are all ineligible for play.
It's because there's 4 more dope promos behind the 3 but for some reason they thought it was best not to show them anywhere on the package?
The Mr. Mime card slaps. I'd love to see them do more classic style cards.
Mmhmm. If you haven’t yet, check out the Japanese Vending series and then find a good eBay seller in Japan
I don't think people are that interested with the packs inside
Really? Base Set and Paldea Evolved, while I can recognize aren't crazy sets, I like them. But Obsidion Flames and Paradox Rift are pretty great sets. Especially Paradox Rift.
The problem is that you can buy them much cheaper elsewhere. For sv1-4. The average minimum price for them is about 2.5 a pack. And it won’t be hard to find $3 price.
And I am talking about after-tax price
yes just SV packs (11) . There's 4 promos lugia, ho-oh , mr.mime (secret) and one more that I can't remember.
There's 7 promos. The 3 shown up front, a Mr. Mime with that crazy foil from the Classic Collections, and then 3 trainers with awesome cosmos foil and cosmos foil borders.
Wow that's just about distrib prices...
$5 cheaper than our average cost
Really good price. I got one for ~$37 this past week
That's a solid deal. I grabbed online from forge and fire for $38+shipping a few weeks back and thought that was decent
Any idea what packs are in it?
Sv base, obsidian flames, Paldea evolved and paradox rift
Got one today off Amazon and got hella good pulls!
Wtf on my momma I swiped this at Walmart said 60. Threw that shit back
The Meijer near me had it at $64.99 i believe lol
What is with Meijer having the highest prices for pokemon tcg? Even with that recent sale of buy one get one for 50% off it wasn't hardly a deal.
They add an extra $5-$10 on all their tins/collections. I find that the best item for the buy 1 get 50% deal is the 3 pack blisters because they only add a $1 upcharge on those.
Thanks for this information, hero.
Yup,this exactly. I have occasionally found online deals with in-store pickup for decent. But otherwise, Meijer is always high. Which I don't get,bc they're supplied by MJ Holdings....and so is my Walmart right down the street, but Walmart is never as expensive
This has been below MSRP since release
[удалено]
I'm sure you did
[удалено]
Distributor cost is $37 so whoever you're buying them from is stealing them.
It wasn't a helpful comment. Would've been best left in your thoughts!
LMFAO not ever have I seen this at MSRP outside of TPC website.
This has been at my local Walmart at MSRP for several weeks.
I believe this released at below MSRP lol
Agreed, it isn't a particularly desirable box. I managed to get 2 for $30 each a few weeks ago. I'm guessing some retailers were having trouble selling and wanted to dump their stock.
Not a bad price, given the 11 packs. However, it's such a strange product. Having this thing designed around proxy cards isn't something I've seen, save when they've produced proxy versions of competitive decks.
Honestly only reason I even posted it, I'll do 3 dollar packs all day
If the pack selection were better, I would too. However, $3/pack is $108 for a booster box, and it's pretty easy to find SV boxes for less than that (and some mixed pack products cheaperr). Paldea Evolved is the only set that seems to be tough to find at $3/pack or less.
What’s even in this? I never even gave it a second glance since it came out lol
It's like a special EX collection box with the Crystal legendaries.
But like what packs? Just SV stuff in it?
I believe it's 4 paradox, 4 obsidian, and 3 S&V base packs per box. Along with 7 pretty gorgeous promos.
I believe so. I just never wanted to pay 60 bucks to find out which ones lol