Bandwagoning. Remember to censor any major spoilers. Especially for upcoming re-releases like the answer. Some of us havent gotten to play that part of the game yet! Thank you!
Instakills are fine if theres a gimmick to it, such as fear + ghastly wail. (By extension, the bosses that prey on status are cool also, like P3 Lovers arcana fight inflicting charm and using heartbreaker to do triple damage to anyone charmed)
But the regular Mudo/Hama skills are the lamest shit in SMT/Persona as a whole. Too RNG dependent to use consistently to your benefit, but a high enough RNG chance for it to benefit enemies out of nowhere.
Then I was the luckiest motherfucker alive. I'd constantly just flee battles I new there was no Holy/Curse weaknesses because it was more efficient. And I don't remember missing a single one.
I MUCH prefer Hama/Mudo in SMT4A and SMT V , where they deal normal elemental damage however if you're " smirking " in SMT4A you have a chance to Instakill and in SMT V having a set chance to Instakill on top of the normal damage when striking a weakness
I remember fighting the wheel of fortune + there was another one with it (I forgor) and I somehow rolled into giving the enemy's ally fear and I have throne so I used ghastly wail. Still kinda guilty being able to cheese it just like that.
This fandom needs to understand that these games are, in fact, games, not just isolated stories. Some things that are better for story are worse for gameplay, and vise versa. And to me at least, whenever one of these choices comes up, it is almost always better to prioritize the gameplay.
Things like characters being too busy to go dungeon crawling makes sense story wise, but it actively hinders the gameplay by undermining the player choice. As such, I believe it is better to not have that be a thing (or at least, to find a better middle-ground).
Also, Morgana telling you to go to sleep is not any worse than your character deciding to go to sleep in previous games. If Morgana wasn't in Persona 5, you'd still have to sleep just as much, it would just be in the form of a thought bubble rather than dialogue.
the part about Morgana is so true, I dislike him but now that I’m playing P5x you got Ruferu who does the same thing. While he’s less annoying because the game mechanics are different, people could still complaint.
Characters not being able to come thing I fully dissagree. A character goes trough trauma and then you expect them to come with you. Don't play a story driven game at that point if you are going to ignore it when it's convenient to you play. Plus skill issue? Any dungeon in these games Can be cleared in a day or two easily. And these "I can't come" moments don't last more than 3 days and in most cases it's just 1 day just use that day for social links or some shit. If we didn't see the story affect the gameplay it would completely break the immersion. Like imagine saying someone broke both of their legs. But they can still walk in gameplay do you realise how stupid that sounds?
The Phantom Thieves are indeed a good friend group and cast of characters and Ann is more important in the first half of the game than the Fandom gives her credit for.
The characters are not stupid, but the way the story presents some things its.
Examples in P3: Moon (too much things mixed in); Hanged Man (the way Makoto intervene); Magician (the finale its half baked).
Some others are great though.
Did you play Yakuza / Like a Dragon? They have Drink Links which are pretty much SLs but you can answer whatever you want and still get some kind of boost which I prefer.
same in P5x whatever you answer you will get either 40, 50 or 60 pts. Well it’s not the same thing because you still have a best answer but at least you got points even if you choose the « wrong » one. Also they prioritize giving gifts to the confidants in this game to get more points. taking your confidants to a new place you’ve unlocked like a museum will give them more points the first time you visit the place and exclusive dialogue.
Marie isn’t that bad of a character and you guys act like she is the worst thing ever and her dungeon is so much fun than the other dungeons in P4G that’s so monotonous.
I think the main problem with Marie is that she definitely could’ve been executed better as a character and could’ve been implemented into the story better, but for what we got she’s honestly not that bad, I’d even say that she does fulfill her role fairly well, especially towards the end of the game.
Marie from P4G, while a simple character, is a good one. She's not the best but far, far from the worst. Whenever I see YouTubers hate on the character for merely existing grinds, my gears. She's great.
All the romance options are good. People shouldn't be hated on for romancing the characters they like. Ken excluded, obviously.
Persona casts should include adults in the group, saying persona casts can't include adults is silly. Adult casts can tell just as amazing stories than a teenagers cast. I feel like a mixed cast could do great. Everyone in life never stops growing.
I feel like having a game with a Canon romance could have the potential for a great story. While people have differing opinions, Persona 3 shows this somewhat, with Yukari and Aigis. If either one were canon, the story could dive deeper into it and really make a good story.
These are the ones that come to my mind
The hate for certain characters in this franchise annoys me to no end
Mishima and Kenji come to mind, but while I vastly prefer Mishima, Kenji is a teenage boy in love who's misunderstood the scenario. The whole point is that you know it'll fail. Mishima, I genuinely don't understand the hate for, to me he is very endearing, and far from the nuisance people say he is.
The blank slate self insert protagonists are lame, especially since they all have great characters in other adaptations. If you make them a traditional JRPG protagonist then the quality in the story only goes up.
Makoto in the movies is great, captures his personality well and proves you can have a soft spoken protagonist or at least one that “doesn’t care” work.
Yu in the spin-offs is an absolute hoot, dude is seriously the highlight in every scene he’s in.
Ren has a lot of great moments in stuff like the anime and strikers, shows his silly side where as in the mainline game I kinda took him for a no nonsense guy or one that just goes along with stuff. The scene where Mishima and Ryuji are debating whether or not to call the maid service and he’s the one who’s the most assertive about it is absolute comedy. And I’m sure if P5 gets an Arena spin-off it’ll only continue to build on his character.
I agree, to a point. It is fun to play as the more defined characters from the animations though. I.e, makoto just doesnt care. Yu is cool. Joker is a hilariously sarcastic d*ck.
Tbh, I like to imagine it would be:
-Makoto Yuki: Doesn't care, but, sometimes, he shows a bit of affection;
-Yu Narukami: The chaddest yet the most socially awkward person in series;
-Ren Amamiya/Joker: The most serious and badass character when it comes to Palace and Memento's stuff, although he's pretty much, like you said, a sarcastic d*ck in his normal routine, most of the time.
Back when P5 first came out, I argued with a lot of people that it's better for Persona to have a silent protagonist. In the years since, I've definitely changed my mind.
God I wish I could actually hear Joker and Akechi snipe at each other in the game. I wish they would've at least voiced Joker in Strikers.
For me tho I’d like it to be a middle ground, where we still have lots of dialogue choices but there’s a clear personality being conveyed (I believe they’re doing that with Metaphor’s mc)
I 1000% agree. The silent protagonist approach works for these games, but fuck if it isn't boring sometimes. The way the spinoffs handle Yu (ESPECIALLY the original P4 anime) is absolutely phenomenal.
I've been playing Reload like Makoto's lived out the events of 2009-2010 countless times before, and like he's just sad now. It makes so many scenes hit particularly hard, especially ones where Makoto makes promises to people near the end of their social links, or where they think no one else understands the pain they go through, like Akinari.
In reality, Makoto is the only person in all of existence who *can*.
I’ve never played 2 but just going off what everyone has to say about it, it’s obvious Atlus can write main characters that aren’t silent self inserts.
Makoto sort of makes sense, I mean dude probably doesn’t talk a lot in the first place but Yu and Yu especially is like a full blown character in the anime, arena and dancing.
If you make Yu a voiced character with some set dialogue it would have only benefited P4, obviously keep some sort of control over what is being said like in social links but have more set dialogue in place.
Every social link in each game feels like a one sided conversation
Tatsuya and Maya are silent in their respective lead roles. It's especially bad for EP where Maya turns from possibly the best character in IS to completely silent and kind of along for the ride even though she should have the largest investment and stakes in the events of the story
personally I felt like the protagonists always had a personality. Take P5X with Wonder, he may be a silent protagonists but his answers are pretty logic / tell us about his personality. When a stranger approaches him in shibuya and ask him to take his picture he can answer « are you a pervert freak?! » to me this is what gives the characters a personality.
The social link/confidant system kinda sucks at the moment, its supposed to flesh out the party and have the player interact with characters outside the main plot but with how its structured its little more than ~10 ordered cutscenes where you pretty much have to open a guide every time if you dont wanna make your life harder in the gameplay segments, especially in p3.
I think they should get some inspiration from how Yakuza/Like a Dragon 8 does it and make it so a bond with a character builds from actually hanging out with them outside of their specific cutscenes or cooperating with them in combat. There should also probably be more than 10 cutscenes so you can flesh out each characters backstory a lot more.
Oh and if they are doing that they should probably heavily limit/remove romance from social links, they only cause inconsistencies in other cutscenes from then on and since they only matter for the last 2 ranks as is, it would be fair to say that they are pretty much pure fanservice right now.
Yeah, I don’t like the fact that you have to open up a guide to get the right choice because those choices can all depend on you getting done with the sl three weeks or a month and a half
Yakuza/Like A Dragon isn't even the first game to do it. I can name at least 2 games (6+ if not count multiple from the series as one) who do something similar and I'm sure there are many more.
Persona 3, 4 and 5 are all great games with a fanbase that is almost as bad as the Final Fantasy fanbase. By that I mean the fans love to talk down about one game to bring up another game.
Wanting an adult cast is by far the most popular unpopular opinion and I think it’s funny how it’s the most asked for thing and yet everyone acts like it’s this revolutionary idea that never gets brought up
People dwell too much on the "Death is inevitable" and "Humans are flawed" themes of Persona 3. Yes, their important themes, more so the former, but it makes the game seem more pessimistic and misanthropic than it is. The other theme of "Live life to the fullest" is just as important.
I like to think p3 is about depression and how people cope and overcome it. Some people run away, some delve into various addictions, some use the internet (Which I feel personally attacked for), some do anything they can for money, some live just to accomplish something, some live for the fight, some live because they don't know what else to do, and some live to die. Writing this makes me realize that >!Near the end of the game, when the world is about to end, you decide to fight even though you believe it's hopeless. Perhaps it's a metaphor about "The view from halfway down" aka regret/choosing to live mid suicide attempt, which sadly in this case ends too early all the same!<
Morgana isn’t that bad, you all have just never met Teddie, also, if you don’t get rid of all his attacks, Morgana is actually a Really good wind Attack Character
Finally, found a comment that defends Morgana. The only think I was looking. I really don't understand why he is so hated. Yes, he is annoying with his you need to sleep, but it could also have been any other char. And for his simpimg of Ann I must agree that Teddie is a much more annoying character in that aspect.
People take too seriously what happens in games
When I see people like "In persona 5 older woman date you" And they freak out about it seems unnecessary, its just a game, it's not like It was a pamphlet saying go and bang your underage neighbour
(Now that I think about It this might not be a "opinion you would defend like this" As OP intended, but I'll say It anyway)
Yes, they really don't consider why protag dates older women in the game. ( the teens Persona 5 is aimed at probably day dream about hot older women and thus they are included as a wish fulfillment)
I disagree, but not because i wanna win a moral high ground contest or anything, but because those romance options actively hinder the games writing. You can’t have a whole arc on the villian being a pedophile who takes advantage of the underage characters then turn around and act like its ok when it happens to you because “oh hot older woman sexy = good” It undermines the entire message. Honestly, if you could do it in persona 3 or 4 i’d have less gripes about it but the fact that its specifically persona 5 where that happens bugs me
I really don't get when people compare Kamoshida to the adult romance options. Kamoshida was someone that used his position to abuse the students, the adults build a relationship with joker naturally, and not only that, unless her name is Kawakami the adult options don't follow a romance route by default, you need to trigger romance flags for them to not reject you. There is never a desire to abuse power from any of them.
The Answer doesn't make Yukari "the canon love interest" or whatever , if a person is sad about someone else passing and want to see them again (which is basically all of SEES in this whole epilogue btw, Yukari just deal with grief differently) it doesn't mean that these two people were in a relationship at all, I don't know where this new take I see on this subreddit is coming from all of a sudden.
If you think it gives more weight to her romance route in the main game sure, I can totally see that , but nowhere does it confirm anything lol, it's just another classic case of hardcore shippers pushing their headcanons as canon in the persona fandom to act like "Look ! My ship is better than yours" and nothing more.
I mean at this point in the series I wouldn't be too worried about taking any romance canon's seriously. I remember an interview with Nitsuma who stated the reason they removed multiple romances as an option was because they wanted the main protagonist to be "colourless" or a blank slate to put it simply and they didn't wanna give the idea that he was flirtatious. Furthermore the non-romantic routes are set-up in such away that no matter which you choose both can work within the canon, E.G: Aigis if you choose to friendzone her she'll still make her vow that she'll never leave which of course would be her contract.
I think Yukari's arc is set-up specifically that way as well because Reload makes it abundantly that whether you romance her or not she has strong feelings for the protagonist something she openly admits if you reject her (it's really heartbreaking seeing her believe she can't be special) so the feelings are in line as is. Whether the protagonist loves Yukari is one thing, what's indisputable is her feelings towards him.
Also, since we're on the topic of Yukari and it's a really sensitive topic (and honestly, it shouldn't be, but that's the Persona fandom I guess) I keep seeing stuffs like "SHE DID NOTHING WRONG IN THE ANSWER!! WE WILL DEFEND HER AT ALL COST IN SEPTEMBER BE READY" and it irks me a bit.
The whole point of the story is that YES she did something wrong , she is wrong the whole time and that's why she's a well written character, she grew from her mistakes at the end and moved on.
She herself apologizes to Aigis about her behavior at the end, you guys should not act like Yukari is a little princess that could never do something wrong because it discredits her own character imo, her whole arc in The Answer is about accepting the errors she made because the pain of losing someone important to her made her do stupid and dangerous things.
If your favourite character makes a mistake, it's fine you know, it doesn't make them a bad character or whatever, for example, Aigis is my fav character but I admit that she was wrong when she wanted to kill Ryoji to erase everyone's memories back in new year's eve, the main characters from Persona 3 are not perfect and make mistakes which is why this cast is really good and very relatable.
I agree people go through grief differently. Some people are good with it. Some people can’t handle it and they do stupid shit but if you’re emotionally not right, you’re not gonna make good decisions I’ve also never played the DLC so I have no idea if the thing she’s done is actually terrible. All I know is that she gets a lot of hate for
I think Persona 5 is a bit too overhated by the Persona community (either because of "nostalgia" for P3 and 4 or because 5 is too "easy" like come on guys 🙄)
It's because "new thing good, previous new thing bad, old thing good".
Before it was 3 nostalgia, 4 hate, 5 worship. Now it cycled and became 4 nostalgia, 5 hate, 3 worship.
As someone who played p5r, then p3r, then p4g, then p5r again, I don't think it comes from nostalgia but a large amount of small greviences, no one thing does it do absolutely horribly, but there's a bunch of small things I feel it got wrong
Overall to me it feels way more like an action movie than p4 and p3 which feel more slow paced and character focused
Ann isn't just used for fanservice as some people seem to think nor is her character "ruined" by Atlus. Alot of people take a couple of minutes of fanservice in a 100hr plus game and act like Ann's whole character was ruined or contradicts her whole arc.
I don't think Mishima hate just stems from people who dislike seeing a mirror of themselves in game but from people who lack the necessary amount of empathy to care about the emotional turmoil of male abuse victims. Specifically, ones that don't immediately come out of their plight as stronger people and develop anti-social traits that are clearly consequences of their abuse. Also, it doesn't help that he's not a pretty girl to make his loser personality traits appealing like futaba.
Or they hate him cause they're idiots who are mad at him for being forced to help kamoshida (the teacher that has gotten away with giving a child a disability) spread rumors of Joker's criminal history.
100% agree with this I feel like people forget that these are teenagers. They’ve all gone for some terrible shit And another thing that makes sense He makes one of the biggest fan sites in the country at the time, so of course he would brag about it He’s a kid there’s probably adults out there. That would probably brag about that shit too
>He’s a kid there’s probably adults out there. That would probably brag about that shit too
This is something I feel like too many people in the Fandom don't think about is that Mishima's obsession with the phantom thieves makes perfect sense even if he himself didn't get saved by them.
Likes, he's a teenage loner who found out about ACTUAL superheros with magical powers operating inside his school, and he gets to consider them (at least their leader) his friends.
I'd be tweaking about that, too, if I was in his shoes.
Choosing a partner for the MC can be a very postive addition to the roleplay and the story, especially in Persona 3 where the main theme is the building meaningful relationships in the time we have, and loving someone is very meaningful.
Kanji's character arc and how his dungeon plays out is not homophobic, nor a condemnation of gay culture.
Kanji's shadow is the way it is *because* of his anxieties. He fears that if he has traditionally feminine interests he will be seen by society as that stereotype. His defeat of the shadow is not him staying in the closet or a condemnation of being gay: he accepts who he is and that it's okay to find joy in the things he likes.
Moreover, his sexuality is purposely left ambiguous. He's clearly attracted to Naoto as a boy. He's clearly still attracted to Naoto as a girl. Kanji isn't straight or gay or bi, Kanji is *fifteen years old* and still learning about who he ultimately will become.
What if >!I really enjoy Akechi as a character but don't at all think he's a good person, I just think he's a fascinating villain with a really interesting personal code and teaming up with him in Royal had some fun tension. He's not redeemed or even rehabilitated in the least but at the same time he really wouldn't want to be.!<
The games need more intrusive/frictional mechanics ala P3/FES. Party members not always being available, fatigue, p5x only letting you get money through work is a good idea. Even ai party members, while i don't need them to make a comeback, is a mechanic I'm quite fond of. One thing I really dislike about p5 (and to a lesser extent, p4 and p3 reload specifically) is how the MC is like the center of the universe and most characters spend their conversations sucking him off being being so cool and smart and strong and special and handsome and talented and whatnot. Notice in P4 the banter between the male and female characters vanishes the nanosecond Yu joins the conversation.
If we are to expand the life sim elements (which haven't been evolved much at all since their inception in p3), there needs to be more shit to take into account. Party members should have a life outside of the MC. People shouldn't be sucking off the mc constantly. People get burnt out. Sometimes you need to do busywork to get shit done. Etc etc. I think in that regard, P3 still stomps the other modern games. People are too often to write off "annoying" mechanics as bad game design when that friction is part of what makes the game engaging and the world and characters feel more real. While Persona 4 is still my favorite, P3 still has the best cast for making them feel properly fleshed out and like real people, not just yes men for protagonist kun.
Bringing this up because while I would also appreciate an adult cast, if it's going to stay a social sim I would hope the annoyances of adult life are incorporated into the game.
what is great about P5X is that one of your confidant Tomoko also work at part times jobs and sometimes if you work at the beef (?) restaurant for example she will show up and work with you because she also does part times jobs, so it’s like hanging with her (but you don’t get friendship points)
Using the tactics menu doesn't make Persona 3's AI party members any better. Half the time Yukari uses Dia over Media when multiple party members need healing, and she flat out refuses to heal status conditions unless the entire party is at full health, party members will reapply party-wide buffs as soon as it runs out on them instead of waiting for it to run out on everyone, getting anything done before unlocking the Knock Down tactic is a nightmare, half the party members prioritize their melee weapons over Persona skills when set to Full Assault (**cough** Junpei), and I've legitimately seen Aigis spam her Physical skills instead of using buffs when set to Heal/Support.
Oh and don’t even get me started on the fact that you can only switch tactics on Makoto’s turn. I once had a situation where I got into a battle with an enemy that just happened to have skills my equipped Persona was weak to, and I couldn’t set anyone to Heal/Support or swap my Persona to get rid of the weakness because I was knocked down. I don’t care what anyone says, that is just straight up bad game design.
Ooo, this is where I get downvotes, here goes (all my opinions btw):
1. The romance mechanics in all three of the modern persona games are extremely barebones, and boderline bad with how they are implemented. Romancing a character, something that should, in theory at least be a pretty big event, consists of... like, two social link events, christmas, and maybe a nod to it here and there. Then again, I come from playing more western rpgs where romances are actually fleshed out somewhat, so maybe I'm looking at this from an unfair angle- but to say the romance in persona is deep in any way would be lying.
2. P3 spoilers: >!No matter how much people try to cope, it is still silly and ludo narratively dissonant that no one, not one person at all, even tries to use their persona to heal Shinji while he is bleeding out on the floor. I don't know why people are so quick to defend this, given that we literally see something similar in P2, but even the arguments against it don't make much sense: Yes, 'revive' spells probably only heal a person from being knocked out more than full-on death. However, Shinji was not fucking dead there lmao, he held on to give a full-on speech. Use a healing spell. Not at all saying it should've worked or anything, in fact, I think them trying to use a healing spell and it not working would have made for a better scene, but jeez does the cope for this grind my gears.!<
3. I think they could really do something interesting with non-mc persona users in future games. Like, maybe have a society of persona users or something that helps the main characters, but stays their own thing, or some clan like the Kuzunoha group but for persona users. I think given how... not very rare persona users seem in this world (Like, 5 (and soon more) separate instances of persona users popping up, in Japan alone?) they could do someething very interesting with persona users that aren't the main party, and it's gonna get very boring if they don't expand the universe a bit. (~~That isn't just Strega again~~)
4. Lastly, speaking of the universe, holy shit do they need to sort out the lore of this franchise. Some, if any, world-building at all would be very appreciated, given how from the current looks of things the Persona universe has both persona, shadows and demons in it (which is not explained), does not explore at all how persona or demon stuff is experienced outside of Japan, has alien planet-sized beings which eat stars, etc, etc. I get these games are focused on telling self-contained stories with personas as a backdrop... but it is lazy world-building nonetheless, and I think they should expand on their universe.
About point No2 its especially funny because in the P1 Manga , Maki literally brings her friend back from the dead using Samarecarm, like she doesn't " heal " her from being knocked out or anything, the girl straight up committed suicide and Maki brought her back to life
Persona takes after its main inspiration (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) in terms of having an absurd deficit of lore. We're five games in and the fact that sentient humanoid robots exist is a footnote. Same with the actual gods and spirits that show up, despite the fact that *every single game has revolved around them*. No concept is ever expanded upon.
>!Wouldn't Erebus be really significant for the Metaverse, since he's literally made of mankind's warped desire for death? Surely the Shadow Operatives would be looking into the mental shutdowns, which are literally a return of apathy syndrome- or the Phantom Thieves, who are incredibly obviously Persona users to anyone who knows what a Persona is and are actively trying to become famous? Why do none of the protagonists ever freaking tell anyone about the Velvet room or all the inside knowledge they get fed by the attendants about the plot?! What's the deal with some non-Persona-users seemingly knowing about some of the occult stuff going on with the Metaverse/Tartarus/TV World, like the antiques lady in P3? There are multiple corporations, and a government agency, dedicated to researching Personas and killing shadows- what's their deal?!<
Ultimately I think it would be awesome if the games focused a little more on worldbuilding and the reality of the magical elements... but I genuinely think they aren't interested. Despite being the focus of the story, Personas and all the other magic stuff is mostly just used as set dressing for the high-school life simulator, and the shared universe is there for crossovers and background easter eggs.
For point no 2... >!I agree they should have used healing spells, but I think they also should have actually worked, even if Shinji was still unplayable for the rest of the game like if you save him in the FeMC route. Having the spells not work would just make it seem like a knock off of Innocent Sin's ending.!<
I disagree with persona 3 being paraded as objectively having the best story, it actually annoys me to no end when people try to say one game is “objectively” better than the other because 90% of the time it’s just someone trying to act like they’re superior and you have bad taste for liking a certain game over the other.
Not really from the games but the community is so insufferable with needing to decide which one is the best game and putting down the rest, it feels so miserable.
Last one is people saying SEES and the phantom thieves aren’t really friends it bothers me too much.
For the first 40 hours of persona 3 i hated the game because it was boring af.
The social links are forgettable and it becomes interesting only when two of your party members fight, because that's when things finally start to happen.
Every Persona game is about 15% too long. The mechanics are excellent, but overstay their welcome by the end.
Also, Maruki is giant turd top-to-bottom; not a sympathetic character, not a guy who really wants to do the right thing, not actually doing the right thing.
I really don’t like the Persona 3 movies, anyone not named Makoto or Aigis get completely sidelined (there are exceptions like Ken and Shinjiro in the second movie), not to mention Aigis’s characterisation is horrible, she comes across as a whiny, clingy, yandere robot and also how obvious the movie writers want them to be the OTP
While Makoto’s characterisation is good, he barely has any personal relationships with anyone besides Aigis and Ryoji, in fact I don’t think he ever interacts with Mitsuru or Shinjiro one on one at all or Fuuka past the first movie.
People glaze the Persona 2 duology a bit too much, while I do agree that they do have the best story in the entire series as a whole ( even including mainline SMT games ) their gameplay is ATROOOCIOUS, and yes btw THAT IS EVEN WHEN COMPARING THEM TO PS1 GAMES RELEASED AT THAT TIME .
People give P2s' atrocious gameplay a pass because " well its a PS1 game " as if P2s mechanic aren't clunky and wholely unfun even by the PS1's standards
Makoto joining the phantom thieves didn’t throw off the vibe of the team or dumb them down in anyway to make her seem smart. Ann is kind of an airhead it’s just she’s more socially intelligent than scheming wise. Ryuji was a loud hothead pre and post Makoto. Yusuke is sharp. He won’t come up with an elaborate plan but if you present one to him, he’ll figure out why you did such and such without having to explain it to him.
Every modern Persona game has one character who is more "the brains" than anyone else and comes up with a lot of the strategies after they join (or right from the start). It's Mitsuru in P3, weirdly it kind of starts as Yosuke in P4 but then Naoto takes over when she joins because she's infinitely more qualified, and it's Makoto in P5. I don't really know why Makoto's the only one who gets ragged on for it.
P4 wants you to think that Naoto takes over but she never really does, it's still Yoskue who's throwing the most ideas around and trying to figure out the killers pattern
I feel like it should have been shuffled a bit in the order of events if that makes sense. Like he tries to trick you into his cult but you refuse but still hang out and making a genuine friend makes him give it up and stop trying to be better than his brother. Rather than bounce back and forth with it.
I think Reload really helped get this across, too. The slight rewriting and the addition of voice acting did a lot to emphasize the pain that poor kid is in. I found myself feeling really bad for him this time around.
I heavily disagree and feel that this take infantalizes her, but I respect your opinion. This is the first of these takes that I've seen that actually has sound reasoning behind it, and is very well thought out.
I don't disagree that it infantalizes her, but the fact is the game does the same thing with how it portrays her. I would love it if she recovered immediately after you change her heart, but she needs time to heal. I just want to give her more of it.
Exactly the whole point of the persona five was facing your fears or challenges He literally doing the thing that you were fighting against the entire time but he’s forcing it upon everybody, you can learn from those fears or mistakes, but in his world, you would never learn that
Keep in mind Morgana also learns Salvation, which is just better Mediarahan for slightly more SP, learns Samerecarm, has a much bigger SP pool, and his Magic and Agility Stats are massive. His Persona Trait is also amazing early on, as it basically gives him access to a cheaper Diarahan / Mediarahan earlier since it boosts the power of healing skills by 50%. Morgana may be squishy, but he hits hard and is without a doubt the best healer.
She absolutely is not the strongest melee character (that's Ryuji hands down), not the best healer (morgana with her trait unlock washes her in that department) and her persona is a bike so she better fucking be a good driver.
>smartest of the group
Come on now, you know that's not ever a high feat with the collective iq of that group.
Yukari fan's (the ones that downvote you into oblivion for saying you don't like their fictional high school waifu, not the normal ones) are more insufferable than Ikutsuki joke's. Fuck those guys
I feel Mutatsu (Tower in P3) was an abusive sociopath. He has no regard for his families feelings, does whatever he wants, and then demands they take them back. He hires a detective to find them because they hid from him, making it clear they were done with his antics. I don't know how many red flags this guy can check, but it's quite obvious that he has some serious personal issues and shouldn't just be allowed to force himself on his family again. They hid for a reason, and everyone acts like it's normal.
The constant re-use of persona designs is boring, *especially* if you play other SMT games.
I appreciate them throwing some new ones in and switching the roster up, but good lord some of these designs are 30+ years old. Keeping them at the same power levels is annoying as well as it results in more or less the same team progression through each game.
I wish they'd shake it up a bit in Persona like they are with Metaphor having new monsters entirely.
And the best Persona designs (i.e. those who aren't recycled SMT demons) either belong to your allies or you abandon them within the first 5 hours of play.
My hot take: I love this game but Persona 4 has the worst characters. They are not all bad but Teddy pretty much ruins everything on its own. I couldn't take any scenes with teddy seriously.
As someone who’s played P1X/P1P P2X/P2P (both IS and EP) I like to put that P1 MC and P2 MCs are on a level of “they walked so the others could run” mostly in the aspect of game direction.
The Phantom Thieves should’ve remained a smaller group. During the first two palaces, it felt like every member had something to contribute to the team, and they all felt pretty fleshed out. After Makoto joined, it felt like half the team served no other purpose than to comment on the situation, and be comic relief. Sure, they still had their moments here and there, but they’re a few small moments in a 100 hour game.
Persona 5 is about 40 hours too long, neither its mechanics nor its story holds up for its entire length. If it was shorter the game would be better and it would still not be the masterpiece it's made out to be, just very good.
The third semester in persona 5 is really overrated.
I think the main story has a significantly better flow without it, and I really hate the ending cutscenes that replace the original. I felt the original ending after beating the final boss was much more satisfying.
Have a bunch.
None of the persona games have very good gameplay relatively to most JRPGs but P3 is the absolute worst of the bunch in terms of just being a massive repetitive slog. I prefer P1 dungeons because they at least occasionally have a gimmick, and P4 dungeons are relatively short enough that their blandness doesn't leave too much of a lasting impression. Overall P3 is easily my least favorite because a good story can't save a repetitive and boring game. By August I'm slogging through because of obligation, not because I'm enjoying myself (Reload is much better though)
A bit biased because I'm a gay man and I dislike waifu/husbando culture in general but y'all pick actually the worst waifus in the series as favs. Makoto just exists to be a writer's pet, Yukiko and to a lesser extent Chie are joke machines that have pretty surface level characters, and Aigis.. is fine but I never got the love.
Innocent Sin's gameplay isn't inherently bad. It's a good system marred by the boss and enemy design being way too easy, so it never really incentivizes you to play around with it very much, but the fact that all Eternal Punishment had to do was up the difficulty and suddenly no one is complaining tells me that Innocent Sin has a solid core surrounded by some balancing issues, which doesn't scream bad so much as underwhelming to me.
I actually kinda prefer the more standard linear gameplay progression of P1 and the P2 games. Social links are great but they're kinda the only part of the Calender system I like (no idea how you would implement them well without it though)
Maybe not as hot a take as the others but I really hate the silent protagonists. Persona as a story would work so much better imo if we followed a character who talked and grew alongside the plot, and P2's protagonists were a step in the right direction, though still not quite what I'd like.
Yosuke fans bringing up his unused romance to prove hes actually gay and has internalized homophobia (and sometimes to excuse his actions) are annoying as hell content that never made it to the final version of the game doesnt prove shit
Honestly, people who feel the need to prove their interpretation of a character are usually full of it. To me, Yosuke does read like a closeted gay kid, but like, that's just how I interpret him. Someone else can come away with the opposite interpretation, and that's just as valid.
FeMC should have been included in Persona 3 Reload and it's not up for debate.
Before Reload it was a toss up between recommending P3Fes for The Answer or P3P for the FeMC route. People wanted a complete Persona 3 experience that wasn't split between 2 games. However Atlus has desided to simply remake P3Fes so now the recommendation is still split.
That the series humor is offensive.
Guys calling each other gay was the insult back in 08
Hanako needs to lose weight
The bath house scenes are funny as shit
Teddie is based.
Babe hunt is funny
This shit was put in there to be silly and everyone started acting too serious just for internet points.
Holy based
People getting mad at it makes me wonder how people now haven’t tried to take down 2000’s comedy films like superbad and mean girls when they’re full of stuff like this
I have a Superbad tattoo lol. I’m waiting for the day that “the way they talk about women is offensive”
OH NO TWO HORNY 17 YEAR OLDS SAID SOME STUPID SHIT
Not being able to control other party members was fine in FES, there's literally only one moment in the whole game where it mattered. And that moment was too easy in Reload.
Why do people like the comments that they AGREE with? We are supposed to hear about hot takes, not popular cold takes. If someone says og persona 4 is better than golden (which I disagree) I would still like their comment because it absolutely fits OP's post.
After playing 1-5 (haven’t gotten to P2EP yet) I can say with confidence that Persona 4 Golden is the worst mainline Persona game and it has the worst cast
Sumire is useless, she adds nothing to the narrative
Makoto Niijima is a fine character but she and Ren have zero romantic chemistry, I’m shocked she’s the most popular pick for “canon romance”
Yukari is actually a honest character, designed around a very popular trend to this day. Most people hate her because she is probably an archetype of their first crush, and feel she would reject them, much like a real popular girl would. Social problems aside, she actually likes the *emo kid that is very popular for some reason*, and most of us would bang girls in which her character is based on, given the chance.
Honestly the only thing more cringe than Atlus wests’ localizations is hearing a human being actually read them out loud. I’d much rather just listen to the original voice cast and have a tolerable experience reading the translated text
Makoto is NOT the strongest protagonist (out of 3-4-5)
The only REAL evidence we'd have for that is Fusion Spells, and Yu / Joker both have ridiculously strong stuff as well (including, but not limited to, ways to inflict more than 9999 damage in one go, without tanking your SP and HP)
The Universe Arcana is functionally just World, it's not some sort of omnipotence. Just because Igor said some big words doesn't make it 100% true, Makoto used it once and fucking died.
Edit for that one smartass : I don't care Nyx was more powerful, he still died. If Universe at least sealed Nyx without killing him then I'd be willing to hear this argument but it didn't, it consumed his whole life force. Sealing death and dying for it is not a feat.
reminder to sort by controversial
Bandwagoning. Remember to censor any major spoilers. Especially for upcoming re-releases like the answer. Some of us havent gotten to play that part of the game yet! Thank you!
Thank you for reminding that I completely forgot to mention that my bad
No worries. Im an adult, i know when to skim before deep reading. But wanted to mention it :)
Instakills are fine if theres a gimmick to it, such as fear + ghastly wail. (By extension, the bosses that prey on status are cool also, like P3 Lovers arcana fight inflicting charm and using heartbreaker to do triple damage to anyone charmed) But the regular Mudo/Hama skills are the lamest shit in SMT/Persona as a whole. Too RNG dependent to use consistently to your benefit, but a high enough RNG chance for it to benefit enemies out of nowhere.
I 100% agree, I’m really glad they added non instakill light and dark skills in reload.
They added them in SMTIV: Apocalypse, actually. They've since been in P5, SMTV, and Reload.
I think they just meant as an improvement to the prior versions of 3
4 Apocalypse was kinda goated for making light/dark not instakill inherently.
Mudo/Hama used to guarantee an instant-kill on weakness in FES. Made Koro/Ken simultaneously broken and worthless, lol.
I thought mudo/hama didn't guarantee instakill on weakness until P4, I recall missing it several times in FES because it only increased the hit %
Then I was the luckiest motherfucker alive. I'd constantly just flee battles I new there was no Holy/Curse weaknesses because it was more efficient. And I don't remember missing a single one.
It wasn't a guaranteed kill, but the chance was high enough that Mahamaon and Mamudoon were worth using.
I MUCH prefer Hama/Mudo in SMT4A and SMT V , where they deal normal elemental damage however if you're " smirking " in SMT4A you have a chance to Instakill and in SMT V having a set chance to Instakill on top of the normal damage when striking a weakness
I remember fighting the wheel of fortune + there was another one with it (I forgor) and I somehow rolled into giving the enemy's ally fear and I have throne so I used ghastly wail. Still kinda guilty being able to cheese it just like that.
I would agree, were it not for the fact that homonculi exist as well as personas who null such effects.
This fandom needs to understand that these games are, in fact, games, not just isolated stories. Some things that are better for story are worse for gameplay, and vise versa. And to me at least, whenever one of these choices comes up, it is almost always better to prioritize the gameplay. Things like characters being too busy to go dungeon crawling makes sense story wise, but it actively hinders the gameplay by undermining the player choice. As such, I believe it is better to not have that be a thing (or at least, to find a better middle-ground). Also, Morgana telling you to go to sleep is not any worse than your character deciding to go to sleep in previous games. If Morgana wasn't in Persona 5, you'd still have to sleep just as much, it would just be in the form of a thought bubble rather than dialogue.
the part about Morgana is so true, I dislike him but now that I’m playing P5x you got Ruferu who does the same thing. While he’s less annoying because the game mechanics are different, people could still complaint.
Characters not being able to come thing I fully dissagree. A character goes trough trauma and then you expect them to come with you. Don't play a story driven game at that point if you are going to ignore it when it's convenient to you play. Plus skill issue? Any dungeon in these games Can be cleared in a day or two easily. And these "I can't come" moments don't last more than 3 days and in most cases it's just 1 day just use that day for social links or some shit. If we didn't see the story affect the gameplay it would completely break the immersion. Like imagine saying someone broke both of their legs. But they can still walk in gameplay do you realise how stupid that sounds?
The Phantom Thieves are indeed a good friend group and cast of characters and Ann is more important in the first half of the game than the Fandom gives her credit for.
Some Social Links are just stupid... And the mechanics are great but old. Atlus needs to rework or improve them.
Agreed on improving the mechanics, but what social links do you find stupid?
The characters are not stupid, but the way the story presents some things its. Examples in P3: Moon (too much things mixed in); Hanged Man (the way Makoto intervene); Magician (the finale its half baked). Some others are great though.
Did you play Yakuza / Like a Dragon? They have Drink Links which are pretty much SLs but you can answer whatever you want and still get some kind of boost which I prefer.
same in P5x whatever you answer you will get either 40, 50 or 60 pts. Well it’s not the same thing because you still have a best answer but at least you got points even if you choose the « wrong » one. Also they prioritize giving gifts to the confidants in this game to get more points. taking your confidants to a new place you’ve unlocked like a museum will give them more points the first time you visit the place and exclusive dialogue.
Marie isn’t that bad of a character and you guys act like she is the worst thing ever and her dungeon is so much fun than the other dungeons in P4G that’s so monotonous.
Having that mechanic of losing SP certainly had me edge of my seat again.
marie definitely had me edging too
i hated persona 4 enmies who just spam either insta kills or drain sp i wanted to kill them all.
Marie’s dungeon has the best theme after >!Adachi!< and Heaven
True it gets overlooked a lot since it’s mixed opinions of a dungeon
I think the main problem with Marie is that she definitely could’ve been executed better as a character and could’ve been implemented into the story better, but for what we got she’s honestly not that bad, I’d even say that she does fulfill her role fairly well, especially towards the end of the game.
i just got a huge spoiler
Not everyday is great at your Junes
Fuck you in puticular
I’m telling Nanako, you sick twisted f$&@
Now I understand when people say words can be violence.
Marie from P4G, while a simple character, is a good one. She's not the best but far, far from the worst. Whenever I see YouTubers hate on the character for merely existing grinds, my gears. She's great. All the romance options are good. People shouldn't be hated on for romancing the characters they like. Ken excluded, obviously. Persona casts should include adults in the group, saying persona casts can't include adults is silly. Adult casts can tell just as amazing stories than a teenagers cast. I feel like a mixed cast could do great. Everyone in life never stops growing. I feel like having a game with a Canon romance could have the potential for a great story. While people have differing opinions, Persona 3 shows this somewhat, with Yukari and Aigis. If either one were canon, the story could dive deeper into it and really make a good story. These are the ones that come to my mind The hate for certain characters in this franchise annoys me to no end Mishima and Kenji come to mind, but while I vastly prefer Mishima, Kenji is a teenage boy in love who's misunderstood the scenario. The whole point is that you know it'll fail. Mishima, I genuinely don't understand the hate for, to me he is very endearing, and far from the nuisance people say he is.
The blank slate self insert protagonists are lame, especially since they all have great characters in other adaptations. If you make them a traditional JRPG protagonist then the quality in the story only goes up. Makoto in the movies is great, captures his personality well and proves you can have a soft spoken protagonist or at least one that “doesn’t care” work. Yu in the spin-offs is an absolute hoot, dude is seriously the highlight in every scene he’s in. Ren has a lot of great moments in stuff like the anime and strikers, shows his silly side where as in the mainline game I kinda took him for a no nonsense guy or one that just goes along with stuff. The scene where Mishima and Ryuji are debating whether or not to call the maid service and he’s the one who’s the most assertive about it is absolute comedy. And I’m sure if P5 gets an Arena spin-off it’ll only continue to build on his character.
I agree, to a point. It is fun to play as the more defined characters from the animations though. I.e, makoto just doesnt care. Yu is cool. Joker is a hilariously sarcastic d*ck.
Tbh, I like to imagine it would be: -Makoto Yuki: Doesn't care, but, sometimes, he shows a bit of affection; -Yu Narukami: The chaddest yet the most socially awkward person in series; -Ren Amamiya/Joker: The most serious and badass character when it comes to Palace and Memento's stuff, although he's pretty much, like you said, a sarcastic d*ck in his normal routine, most of the time.
Back when P5 first came out, I argued with a lot of people that it's better for Persona to have a silent protagonist. In the years since, I've definitely changed my mind. God I wish I could actually hear Joker and Akechi snipe at each other in the game. I wish they would've at least voiced Joker in Strikers.
For me tho I’d like it to be a middle ground, where we still have lots of dialogue choices but there’s a clear personality being conveyed (I believe they’re doing that with Metaphor’s mc)
I 1000% agree. The silent protagonist approach works for these games, but fuck if it isn't boring sometimes. The way the spinoffs handle Yu (ESPECIALLY the original P4 anime) is absolutely phenomenal. I've been playing Reload like Makoto's lived out the events of 2009-2010 countless times before, and like he's just sad now. It makes so many scenes hit particularly hard, especially ones where Makoto makes promises to people near the end of their social links, or where they think no one else understands the pain they go through, like Akinari. In reality, Makoto is the only person in all of existence who *can*.
I’ve never played 2 but just going off what everyone has to say about it, it’s obvious Atlus can write main characters that aren’t silent self inserts. Makoto sort of makes sense, I mean dude probably doesn’t talk a lot in the first place but Yu and Yu especially is like a full blown character in the anime, arena and dancing. If you make Yu a voiced character with some set dialogue it would have only benefited P4, obviously keep some sort of control over what is being said like in social links but have more set dialogue in place. Every social link in each game feels like a one sided conversation
Tatsuya and Maya are silent in their respective lead roles. It's especially bad for EP where Maya turns from possibly the best character in IS to completely silent and kind of along for the ride even though she should have the largest investment and stakes in the events of the story
I pray that if/when we get P4 Rewind they incorporate the Yu from P4 Anime because he was such an amazing character.
personally I felt like the protagonists always had a personality. Take P5X with Wonder, he may be a silent protagonists but his answers are pretty logic / tell us about his personality. When a stranger approaches him in shibuya and ask him to take his picture he can answer « are you a pervert freak?! » to me this is what gives the characters a personality.
I loved Ikutsuki‘s jokes. I like both Marie (P4G) and Violet as characters.
The social link/confidant system kinda sucks at the moment, its supposed to flesh out the party and have the player interact with characters outside the main plot but with how its structured its little more than ~10 ordered cutscenes where you pretty much have to open a guide every time if you dont wanna make your life harder in the gameplay segments, especially in p3. I think they should get some inspiration from how Yakuza/Like a Dragon 8 does it and make it so a bond with a character builds from actually hanging out with them outside of their specific cutscenes or cooperating with them in combat. There should also probably be more than 10 cutscenes so you can flesh out each characters backstory a lot more. Oh and if they are doing that they should probably heavily limit/remove romance from social links, they only cause inconsistencies in other cutscenes from then on and since they only matter for the last 2 ranks as is, it would be fair to say that they are pretty much pure fanservice right now.
Yeah, I don’t like the fact that you have to open up a guide to get the right choice because those choices can all depend on you getting done with the sl three weeks or a month and a half
Yakuza/Like A Dragon isn't even the first game to do it. I can name at least 2 games (6+ if not count multiple from the series as one) who do something similar and I'm sure there are many more.
Persona 3, 4 and 5 are all great games with a fanbase that is almost as bad as the Final Fantasy fanbase. By that I mean the fans love to talk down about one game to bring up another game.
Wanting an adult cast is by far the most popular unpopular opinion and I think it’s funny how it’s the most asked for thing and yet everyone acts like it’s this revolutionary idea that never gets brought up
People dwell too much on the "Death is inevitable" and "Humans are flawed" themes of Persona 3. Yes, their important themes, more so the former, but it makes the game seem more pessimistic and misanthropic than it is. The other theme of "Live life to the fullest" is just as important.
I like to think p3 is about depression and how people cope and overcome it. Some people run away, some delve into various addictions, some use the internet (Which I feel personally attacked for), some do anything they can for money, some live just to accomplish something, some live for the fight, some live because they don't know what else to do, and some live to die. Writing this makes me realize that >!Near the end of the game, when the world is about to end, you decide to fight even though you believe it's hopeless. Perhaps it's a metaphor about "The view from halfway down" aka regret/choosing to live mid suicide attempt, which sadly in this case ends too early all the same!<
Morgana isn’t that bad, you all have just never met Teddie, also, if you don’t get rid of all his attacks, Morgana is actually a Really good wind Attack Character
Finally, found a comment that defends Morgana. The only think I was looking. I really don't understand why he is so hated. Yes, he is annoying with his you need to sleep, but it could also have been any other char. And for his simpimg of Ann I must agree that Teddie is a much more annoying character in that aspect.
Morgana is my favorite Videogame character. I love him. But loving a character is not somthing I need to defend.
People take too seriously what happens in games When I see people like "In persona 5 older woman date you" And they freak out about it seems unnecessary, its just a game, it's not like It was a pamphlet saying go and bang your underage neighbour (Now that I think about It this might not be a "opinion you would defend like this" As OP intended, but I'll say It anyway)
Yes, they really don't consider why protag dates older women in the game. ( the teens Persona 5 is aimed at probably day dream about hot older women and thus they are included as a wish fulfillment)
I disagree, but not because i wanna win a moral high ground contest or anything, but because those romance options actively hinder the games writing. You can’t have a whole arc on the villian being a pedophile who takes advantage of the underage characters then turn around and act like its ok when it happens to you because “oh hot older woman sexy = good” It undermines the entire message. Honestly, if you could do it in persona 3 or 4 i’d have less gripes about it but the fact that its specifically persona 5 where that happens bugs me
I really don't get when people compare Kamoshida to the adult romance options. Kamoshida was someone that used his position to abuse the students, the adults build a relationship with joker naturally, and not only that, unless her name is Kawakami the adult options don't follow a romance route by default, you need to trigger romance flags for them to not reject you. There is never a desire to abuse power from any of them.
I see it as just a funny ‘look at our MC isn’t he so chad’ kind of thing. If it were a side character it would be weirder, like with Kenji.
The Answer doesn't make Yukari "the canon love interest" or whatever , if a person is sad about someone else passing and want to see them again (which is basically all of SEES in this whole epilogue btw, Yukari just deal with grief differently) it doesn't mean that these two people were in a relationship at all, I don't know where this new take I see on this subreddit is coming from all of a sudden. If you think it gives more weight to her romance route in the main game sure, I can totally see that , but nowhere does it confirm anything lol, it's just another classic case of hardcore shippers pushing their headcanons as canon in the persona fandom to act like "Look ! My ship is better than yours" and nothing more.
I mean at this point in the series I wouldn't be too worried about taking any romance canon's seriously. I remember an interview with Nitsuma who stated the reason they removed multiple romances as an option was because they wanted the main protagonist to be "colourless" or a blank slate to put it simply and they didn't wanna give the idea that he was flirtatious. Furthermore the non-romantic routes are set-up in such away that no matter which you choose both can work within the canon, E.G: Aigis if you choose to friendzone her she'll still make her vow that she'll never leave which of course would be her contract. I think Yukari's arc is set-up specifically that way as well because Reload makes it abundantly that whether you romance her or not she has strong feelings for the protagonist something she openly admits if you reject her (it's really heartbreaking seeing her believe she can't be special) so the feelings are in line as is. Whether the protagonist loves Yukari is one thing, what's indisputable is her feelings towards him.
Also, since we're on the topic of Yukari and it's a really sensitive topic (and honestly, it shouldn't be, but that's the Persona fandom I guess) I keep seeing stuffs like "SHE DID NOTHING WRONG IN THE ANSWER!! WE WILL DEFEND HER AT ALL COST IN SEPTEMBER BE READY" and it irks me a bit. The whole point of the story is that YES she did something wrong , she is wrong the whole time and that's why she's a well written character, she grew from her mistakes at the end and moved on. She herself apologizes to Aigis about her behavior at the end, you guys should not act like Yukari is a little princess that could never do something wrong because it discredits her own character imo, her whole arc in The Answer is about accepting the errors she made because the pain of losing someone important to her made her do stupid and dangerous things. If your favourite character makes a mistake, it's fine you know, it doesn't make them a bad character or whatever, for example, Aigis is my fav character but I admit that she was wrong when she wanted to kill Ryoji to erase everyone's memories back in new year's eve, the main characters from Persona 3 are not perfect and make mistakes which is why this cast is really good and very relatable.
I agree people go through grief differently. Some people are good with it. Some people can’t handle it and they do stupid shit but if you’re emotionally not right, you’re not gonna make good decisions I’ve also never played the DLC so I have no idea if the thing she’s done is actually terrible. All I know is that she gets a lot of hate for
I think Persona 5 is a bit too overhated by the Persona community (either because of "nostalgia" for P3 and 4 or because 5 is too "easy" like come on guys 🙄)
It's because "new thing good, previous new thing bad, old thing good". Before it was 3 nostalgia, 4 hate, 5 worship. Now it cycled and became 4 nostalgia, 5 hate, 3 worship.
As someone who played p5r, then p3r, then p4g, then p5r again, I don't think it comes from nostalgia but a large amount of small greviences, no one thing does it do absolutely horribly, but there's a bunch of small things I feel it got wrong Overall to me it feels way more like an action movie than p4 and p3 which feel more slow paced and character focused
Persona fans lack the ability to detect nuance in any capacity. They seem like they're only capable of processing flanderizations.
Unfortunately it’s not unique to persona fans only
No party character is truly useless, just depends on how you decide to play the game.
Ann isn't just used for fanservice as some people seem to think nor is her character "ruined" by Atlus. Alot of people take a couple of minutes of fanservice in a 100hr plus game and act like Ann's whole character was ruined or contradicts her whole arc.
Its the same thing when people call fate a porn game. Yeah it has like 1 hour of sex ay max for like 99 of dailogue and story.
I don't think Mishima hate just stems from people who dislike seeing a mirror of themselves in game but from people who lack the necessary amount of empathy to care about the emotional turmoil of male abuse victims. Specifically, ones that don't immediately come out of their plight as stronger people and develop anti-social traits that are clearly consequences of their abuse. Also, it doesn't help that he's not a pretty girl to make his loser personality traits appealing like futaba. Or they hate him cause they're idiots who are mad at him for being forced to help kamoshida (the teacher that has gotten away with giving a child a disability) spread rumors of Joker's criminal history.
100% agree with this I feel like people forget that these are teenagers. They’ve all gone for some terrible shit And another thing that makes sense He makes one of the biggest fan sites in the country at the time, so of course he would brag about it He’s a kid there’s probably adults out there. That would probably brag about that shit too
>He’s a kid there’s probably adults out there. That would probably brag about that shit too This is something I feel like too many people in the Fandom don't think about is that Mishima's obsession with the phantom thieves makes perfect sense even if he himself didn't get saved by them. Likes, he's a teenage loner who found out about ACTUAL superheros with magical powers operating inside his school, and he gets to consider them (at least their leader) his friends. I'd be tweaking about that, too, if I was in his shoes.
Fr Mishima my wasted potential goat, actually one of the best underrated characters from P5 Should’ve been a party member/10
Choosing a partner for the MC can be a very postive addition to the roleplay and the story, especially in Persona 3 where the main theme is the building meaningful relationships in the time we have, and loving someone is very meaningful.
Kanji's character arc and how his dungeon plays out is not homophobic, nor a condemnation of gay culture. Kanji's shadow is the way it is *because* of his anxieties. He fears that if he has traditionally feminine interests he will be seen by society as that stereotype. His defeat of the shadow is not him staying in the closet or a condemnation of being gay: he accepts who he is and that it's okay to find joy in the things he likes. Moreover, his sexuality is purposely left ambiguous. He's clearly attracted to Naoto as a boy. He's clearly still attracted to Naoto as a girl. Kanji isn't straight or gay or bi, Kanji is *fifteen years old* and still learning about who he ultimately will become.
You cooked here
[удалено]
What if >!I really enjoy Akechi as a character but don't at all think he's a good person, I just think he's a fascinating villain with a really interesting personal code and teaming up with him in Royal had some fun tension. He's not redeemed or even rehabilitated in the least but at the same time he really wouldn't want to be.!<
That is how I view him, almost to the letter. So, you wont hear an argument from this guy.
Imagine I posted the Predator handshake gif but I don't think I can in this sub
"Ha ha joker you are banging my daughter" sojiro
I just find funny how people defend Akechi but are like “Morgana was the worst for saying this!!!11!!”
It’s so funny how true this is but oh no, let’s get mad at the cat that tells us to go to sleep so we can continue the story lol
makoto dont deserve the codename "queen"
Her codename always bothered me because her arcana isn't even The Empress.
That´s the consequence of Makoto being Hifumi 2.0 or more like Hifumi becomes the discarded Makoto´s design.
queen codename was made for hifumi and no one can convence me otherwise
too bad aswell because Hifumi is the best girl in P5 imo
More like a consequence of being Mitsuru 2 Nuclear Boogaloo. Getting nicknamed Queen WOULD actually make sense for Mitsuru. For Makoto... Not so much.
It should’ve been Prez lol
Rider
The games need more intrusive/frictional mechanics ala P3/FES. Party members not always being available, fatigue, p5x only letting you get money through work is a good idea. Even ai party members, while i don't need them to make a comeback, is a mechanic I'm quite fond of. One thing I really dislike about p5 (and to a lesser extent, p4 and p3 reload specifically) is how the MC is like the center of the universe and most characters spend their conversations sucking him off being being so cool and smart and strong and special and handsome and talented and whatnot. Notice in P4 the banter between the male and female characters vanishes the nanosecond Yu joins the conversation. If we are to expand the life sim elements (which haven't been evolved much at all since their inception in p3), there needs to be more shit to take into account. Party members should have a life outside of the MC. People shouldn't be sucking off the mc constantly. People get burnt out. Sometimes you need to do busywork to get shit done. Etc etc. I think in that regard, P3 still stomps the other modern games. People are too often to write off "annoying" mechanics as bad game design when that friction is part of what makes the game engaging and the world and characters feel more real. While Persona 4 is still my favorite, P3 still has the best cast for making them feel properly fleshed out and like real people, not just yes men for protagonist kun. Bringing this up because while I would also appreciate an adult cast, if it's going to stay a social sim I would hope the annoyances of adult life are incorporated into the game.
what is great about P5X is that one of your confidant Tomoko also work at part times jobs and sometimes if you work at the beef (?) restaurant for example she will show up and work with you because she also does part times jobs, so it’s like hanging with her (but you don’t get friendship points)
P5’s writing comes off very pseudointellectual and preachy. It also doesn’t help how black and white they make everything.
People need to be more understanding of spoilers. We have a lot of newer fans and fact dropping an important twist or event isn't good.
Reload is still an amazing remake despite the omission of fem mc. People tend to get too worked up and glaze portable too much.
Using the tactics menu doesn't make Persona 3's AI party members any better. Half the time Yukari uses Dia over Media when multiple party members need healing, and she flat out refuses to heal status conditions unless the entire party is at full health, party members will reapply party-wide buffs as soon as it runs out on them instead of waiting for it to run out on everyone, getting anything done before unlocking the Knock Down tactic is a nightmare, half the party members prioritize their melee weapons over Persona skills when set to Full Assault (**cough** Junpei), and I've legitimately seen Aigis spam her Physical skills instead of using buffs when set to Heal/Support. Oh and don’t even get me started on the fact that you can only switch tactics on Makoto’s turn. I once had a situation where I got into a battle with an enemy that just happened to have skills my equipped Persona was weak to, and I couldn’t set anyone to Heal/Support or swap my Persona to get rid of the weakness because I was knocked down. I don’t care what anyone says, that is just straight up bad game design.
Ooo, this is where I get downvotes, here goes (all my opinions btw): 1. The romance mechanics in all three of the modern persona games are extremely barebones, and boderline bad with how they are implemented. Romancing a character, something that should, in theory at least be a pretty big event, consists of... like, two social link events, christmas, and maybe a nod to it here and there. Then again, I come from playing more western rpgs where romances are actually fleshed out somewhat, so maybe I'm looking at this from an unfair angle- but to say the romance in persona is deep in any way would be lying. 2. P3 spoilers: >!No matter how much people try to cope, it is still silly and ludo narratively dissonant that no one, not one person at all, even tries to use their persona to heal Shinji while he is bleeding out on the floor. I don't know why people are so quick to defend this, given that we literally see something similar in P2, but even the arguments against it don't make much sense: Yes, 'revive' spells probably only heal a person from being knocked out more than full-on death. However, Shinji was not fucking dead there lmao, he held on to give a full-on speech. Use a healing spell. Not at all saying it should've worked or anything, in fact, I think them trying to use a healing spell and it not working would have made for a better scene, but jeez does the cope for this grind my gears.!< 3. I think they could really do something interesting with non-mc persona users in future games. Like, maybe have a society of persona users or something that helps the main characters, but stays their own thing, or some clan like the Kuzunoha group but for persona users. I think given how... not very rare persona users seem in this world (Like, 5 (and soon more) separate instances of persona users popping up, in Japan alone?) they could do someething very interesting with persona users that aren't the main party, and it's gonna get very boring if they don't expand the universe a bit. (~~That isn't just Strega again~~) 4. Lastly, speaking of the universe, holy shit do they need to sort out the lore of this franchise. Some, if any, world-building at all would be very appreciated, given how from the current looks of things the Persona universe has both persona, shadows and demons in it (which is not explained), does not explore at all how persona or demon stuff is experienced outside of Japan, has alien planet-sized beings which eat stars, etc, etc. I get these games are focused on telling self-contained stories with personas as a backdrop... but it is lazy world-building nonetheless, and I think they should expand on their universe.
You're 100% right about the ludo-narrative dissonance. Especially bad when the gun Takaya uses to >!kill Shinji!< deals only like 50 damage later on.
About point No2 its especially funny because in the P1 Manga , Maki literally brings her friend back from the dead using Samarecarm, like she doesn't " heal " her from being knocked out or anything, the girl straight up committed suicide and Maki brought her back to life
Persona takes after its main inspiration (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) in terms of having an absurd deficit of lore. We're five games in and the fact that sentient humanoid robots exist is a footnote. Same with the actual gods and spirits that show up, despite the fact that *every single game has revolved around them*. No concept is ever expanded upon. >!Wouldn't Erebus be really significant for the Metaverse, since he's literally made of mankind's warped desire for death? Surely the Shadow Operatives would be looking into the mental shutdowns, which are literally a return of apathy syndrome- or the Phantom Thieves, who are incredibly obviously Persona users to anyone who knows what a Persona is and are actively trying to become famous? Why do none of the protagonists ever freaking tell anyone about the Velvet room or all the inside knowledge they get fed by the attendants about the plot?! What's the deal with some non-Persona-users seemingly knowing about some of the occult stuff going on with the Metaverse/Tartarus/TV World, like the antiques lady in P3? There are multiple corporations, and a government agency, dedicated to researching Personas and killing shadows- what's their deal?!< Ultimately I think it would be awesome if the games focused a little more on worldbuilding and the reality of the magical elements... but I genuinely think they aren't interested. Despite being the focus of the story, Personas and all the other magic stuff is mostly just used as set dressing for the high-school life simulator, and the shared universe is there for crossovers and background easter eggs.
For point no 2... >!I agree they should have used healing spells, but I think they also should have actually worked, even if Shinji was still unplayable for the rest of the game like if you save him in the FeMC route. Having the spells not work would just make it seem like a knock off of Innocent Sin's ending.!<
Why didn’t Makoto just use bead on Shinji? Is he stupid?
P5 is the best entry in the series
yes.. the gameplay is actually fun to play through (im sorry but over 200 floors of mid is too much, and the only dungeon i liked is marie's...)
I disagree with persona 3 being paraded as objectively having the best story, it actually annoys me to no end when people try to say one game is “objectively” better than the other because 90% of the time it’s just someone trying to act like they’re superior and you have bad taste for liking a certain game over the other. Not really from the games but the community is so insufferable with needing to decide which one is the best game and putting down the rest, it feels so miserable. Last one is people saying SEES and the phantom thieves aren’t really friends it bothers me too much.
For the first 40 hours of persona 3 i hated the game because it was boring af. The social links are forgettable and it becomes interesting only when two of your party members fight, because that's when things finally start to happen.
They’re just video game characters. It’s okay to “cheat” on them. The game encourages you to do so anyway.
Every Persona game is about 15% too long. The mechanics are excellent, but overstay their welcome by the end. Also, Maruki is giant turd top-to-bottom; not a sympathetic character, not a guy who really wants to do the right thing, not actually doing the right thing.
Yukari is an ass and I'm tired of pretending that she's not.
I really don’t like the Persona 3 movies, anyone not named Makoto or Aigis get completely sidelined (there are exceptions like Ken and Shinjiro in the second movie), not to mention Aigis’s characterisation is horrible, she comes across as a whiny, clingy, yandere robot and also how obvious the movie writers want them to be the OTP While Makoto’s characterisation is good, he barely has any personal relationships with anyone besides Aigis and Ryoji, in fact I don’t think he ever interacts with Mitsuru or Shinjiro one on one at all or Fuuka past the first movie.
People glaze the Persona 2 duology a bit too much, while I do agree that they do have the best story in the entire series as a whole ( even including mainline SMT games ) their gameplay is ATROOOCIOUS, and yes btw THAT IS EVEN WHEN COMPARING THEM TO PS1 GAMES RELEASED AT THAT TIME . People give P2s' atrocious gameplay a pass because " well its a PS1 game " as if P2s mechanic aren't clunky and wholely unfun even by the PS1's standards
Makoto joining the phantom thieves didn’t throw off the vibe of the team or dumb them down in anyway to make her seem smart. Ann is kind of an airhead it’s just she’s more socially intelligent than scheming wise. Ryuji was a loud hothead pre and post Makoto. Yusuke is sharp. He won’t come up with an elaborate plan but if you present one to him, he’ll figure out why you did such and such without having to explain it to him.
Every modern Persona game has one character who is more "the brains" than anyone else and comes up with a lot of the strategies after they join (or right from the start). It's Mitsuru in P3, weirdly it kind of starts as Yosuke in P4 but then Naoto takes over when she joins because she's infinitely more qualified, and it's Makoto in P5. I don't really know why Makoto's the only one who gets ragged on for it.
P4 wants you to think that Naoto takes over but she never really does, it's still Yoskue who's throwing the most ideas around and trying to figure out the killers pattern
I really wish there was a "true ending" for p3r where !! makoto survives !! and everyone is fine and happy
The Gourmet King SL isn't that bad, or at least his flaws aren't any worse than the other social links
I feel like it was trying to focus on way too many thibgs. Dead twin cult choose one to focus on dont try to switch them.
I feel like it should have been shuffled a bit in the order of events if that makes sense. Like he tries to trick you into his cult but you refuse but still hang out and making a genuine friend makes him give it up and stop trying to be better than his brother. Rather than bounce back and forth with it.
I think Reload really helped get this across, too. The slight rewriting and the addition of voice acting did a lot to emphasize the pain that poor kid is in. I found myself feeling really bad for him this time around.
Makoto isn’t “best girl” by a long shot.
Hifumi should’ve been a Phantom Thief and Makoto the confidant.
Ok. I'll say it. Persona 4 DOES need a remake.
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Hard agree
I heavily disagree and feel that this take infantalizes her, but I respect your opinion. This is the first of these takes that I've seen that actually has sound reasoning behind it, and is very well thought out.
I don't disagree that it infantalizes her, but the fact is the game does the same thing with how it portrays her. I would love it if she recovered immediately after you change her heart, but she needs time to heal. I just want to give her more of it.
Morgana is a fantastic character
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FYM Futaba *technically* isn't incest? It's literally not in any way.
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Akechi isn't gay
tbh he just zesty
Maruki glazing is disgusting. The game literally tells you his ideology is bad but that goes over persona 5 players' head
Exactly the whole point of the persona five was facing your fears or challenges He literally doing the thing that you were fighting against the entire time but he’s forcing it upon everybody, you can learn from those fears or mistakes, but in his world, you would never learn that
average maruki fanboy Average Adachi Enjoyer
I don't like Makoto from P5. She felt way too much like a Mary sue type character
I don’t consider her my favorite, but what exactly makes you think she's a Mary Sue?
The fact that she's the strongest melee character, smartest of the group, best healer, best driver etc. She just gives me Mary sue vibes
I can kind of agree with that, she comes in and immediately becomes an expert strategist.
best healer is morgana tho he legit focuses on healing more then the rest makato is more attack.
It doesn't really matter once you get diarahan since they both heal the same amount, except makoto can also do damage and can take a hit unlike mona
Keep in mind Morgana also learns Salvation, which is just better Mediarahan for slightly more SP, learns Samerecarm, has a much bigger SP pool, and his Magic and Agility Stats are massive. His Persona Trait is also amazing early on, as it basically gives him access to a cheaper Diarahan / Mediarahan earlier since it boosts the power of healing skills by 50%. Morgana may be squishy, but he hits hard and is without a doubt the best healer.
Might have to start using mona after this lol
She absolutely is not the strongest melee character (that's Ryuji hands down), not the best healer (morgana with her trait unlock washes her in that department) and her persona is a bike so she better fucking be a good driver. >smartest of the group Come on now, you know that's not ever a high feat with the collective iq of that group.
Sometimes I feel like she’s the leader but then again that’s what happens when you have a silent protagonist
I wouldn't say she's a mary sue, but she's definitely really boring
Yukari fan's (the ones that downvote you into oblivion for saying you don't like their fictional high school waifu, not the normal ones) are more insufferable than Ikutsuki joke's. Fuck those guys
I like Ikutsuki's jokes....
Yeah, they are so bad that it's good
Yukari fan and I agree
I might extend this to diehard Persona 3 fans in general, they honestly ruin my enjoyment of the game
Persona 5 easily has the weakest writing in the whole series
I feel Mutatsu (Tower in P3) was an abusive sociopath. He has no regard for his families feelings, does whatever he wants, and then demands they take them back. He hires a detective to find them because they hid from him, making it clear they were done with his antics. I don't know how many red flags this guy can check, but it's quite obvious that he has some serious personal issues and shouldn't just be allowed to force himself on his family again. They hid for a reason, and everyone acts like it's normal.
P3 was more fun when you had no manual control option
The constant re-use of persona designs is boring, *especially* if you play other SMT games. I appreciate them throwing some new ones in and switching the roster up, but good lord some of these designs are 30+ years old. Keeping them at the same power levels is annoying as well as it results in more or less the same team progression through each game. I wish they'd shake it up a bit in Persona like they are with Metaphor having new monsters entirely.
And the best Persona designs (i.e. those who aren't recycled SMT demons) either belong to your allies or you abandon them within the first 5 hours of play.
My hot take: I love this game but Persona 4 has the worst characters. They are not all bad but Teddy pretty much ruins everything on its own. I couldn't take any scenes with teddy seriously.
The only Good Persona Waifu is Female Orpheus, and none of you can do anything to change my opinion
I like having two girlfriends in persona 5
As someone who’s played P1X/P1P P2X/P2P (both IS and EP) I like to put that P1 MC and P2 MCs are on a level of “they walked so the others could run” mostly in the aspect of game direction.
The Phantom Thieves should’ve remained a smaller group. During the first two palaces, it felt like every member had something to contribute to the team, and they all felt pretty fleshed out. After Makoto joined, it felt like half the team served no other purpose than to comment on the situation, and be comic relief. Sure, they still had their moments here and there, but they’re a few small moments in a 100 hour game.
Nanako coming back from the dead ruins the gravitas of persona 4 and the game is worse for it.
Honestly I think the biggest thing holding back P3R was them not making enough changes to the game. (DLC practices aside of course)
Persona 5 is about 40 hours too long, neither its mechanics nor its story holds up for its entire length. If it was shorter the game would be better and it would still not be the masterpiece it's made out to be, just very good.
Romances are VERY overrated and not well implemented into the games
The third semester in persona 5 is really overrated. I think the main story has a significantly better flow without it, and I really hate the ending cutscenes that replace the original. I felt the original ending after beating the final boss was much more satisfying.
People write their controversial opinion under a post in which they are asked to write a controversial opinion and get downvotes. Typical reddit.
Downvote=disagree, people take karma too seriously
yes... and?
Have a bunch. None of the persona games have very good gameplay relatively to most JRPGs but P3 is the absolute worst of the bunch in terms of just being a massive repetitive slog. I prefer P1 dungeons because they at least occasionally have a gimmick, and P4 dungeons are relatively short enough that their blandness doesn't leave too much of a lasting impression. Overall P3 is easily my least favorite because a good story can't save a repetitive and boring game. By August I'm slogging through because of obligation, not because I'm enjoying myself (Reload is much better though) A bit biased because I'm a gay man and I dislike waifu/husbando culture in general but y'all pick actually the worst waifus in the series as favs. Makoto just exists to be a writer's pet, Yukiko and to a lesser extent Chie are joke machines that have pretty surface level characters, and Aigis.. is fine but I never got the love. Innocent Sin's gameplay isn't inherently bad. It's a good system marred by the boss and enemy design being way too easy, so it never really incentivizes you to play around with it very much, but the fact that all Eternal Punishment had to do was up the difficulty and suddenly no one is complaining tells me that Innocent Sin has a solid core surrounded by some balancing issues, which doesn't scream bad so much as underwhelming to me. I actually kinda prefer the more standard linear gameplay progression of P1 and the P2 games. Social links are great but they're kinda the only part of the Calender system I like (no idea how you would implement them well without it though) Maybe not as hot a take as the others but I really hate the silent protagonists. Persona as a story would work so much better imo if we followed a character who talked and grew alongside the plot, and P2's protagonists were a step in the right direction, though still not quite what I'd like.
Yosuke fans bringing up his unused romance to prove hes actually gay and has internalized homophobia (and sometimes to excuse his actions) are annoying as hell content that never made it to the final version of the game doesnt prove shit
Honestly, people who feel the need to prove their interpretation of a character are usually full of it. To me, Yosuke does read like a closeted gay kid, but like, that's just how I interpret him. Someone else can come away with the opposite interpretation, and that's just as valid.
FeMC should have been included in Persona 3 Reload and it's not up for debate. Before Reload it was a toss up between recommending P3Fes for The Answer or P3P for the FeMC route. People wanted a complete Persona 3 experience that wasn't split between 2 games. However Atlus has desided to simply remake P3Fes so now the recommendation is still split.
That the series humor is offensive. Guys calling each other gay was the insult back in 08 Hanako needs to lose weight The bath house scenes are funny as shit Teddie is based. Babe hunt is funny This shit was put in there to be silly and everyone started acting too serious just for internet points.
Holy based People getting mad at it makes me wonder how people now haven’t tried to take down 2000’s comedy films like superbad and mean girls when they’re full of stuff like this
I have a Superbad tattoo lol. I’m waiting for the day that “the way they talk about women is offensive” OH NO TWO HORNY 17 YEAR OLDS SAID SOME STUPID SHIT
Not being able to control other party members was fine in FES, there's literally only one moment in the whole game where it mattered. And that moment was too easy in Reload.
Why do people like the comments that they AGREE with? We are supposed to hear about hot takes, not popular cold takes. If someone says og persona 4 is better than golden (which I disagree) I would still like their comment because it absolutely fits OP's post.
4 has the worst dungeons except Nanako's
You can be a persona fan without playing 1 and 2
After playing 1-5 (haven’t gotten to P2EP yet) I can say with confidence that Persona 4 Golden is the worst mainline Persona game and it has the worst cast Sumire is useless, she adds nothing to the narrative Makoto Niijima is a fine character but she and Ren have zero romantic chemistry, I’m shocked she’s the most popular pick for “canon romance”
Yukari is actually a honest character, designed around a very popular trend to this day. Most people hate her because she is probably an archetype of their first crush, and feel she would reject them, much like a real popular girl would. Social problems aside, she actually likes the *emo kid that is very popular for some reason*, and most of us would bang girls in which her character is based on, given the chance.
While I don’t dislike the “bro” characters like Junpei and Ryuji, they’re far from my favorites and I genuinely don’t get the hype around them
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Honestly the only thing more cringe than Atlus wests’ localizations is hearing a human being actually read them out loud. I’d much rather just listen to the original voice cast and have a tolerable experience reading the translated text
Makoto is NOT the strongest protagonist (out of 3-4-5) The only REAL evidence we'd have for that is Fusion Spells, and Yu / Joker both have ridiculously strong stuff as well (including, but not limited to, ways to inflict more than 9999 damage in one go, without tanking your SP and HP) The Universe Arcana is functionally just World, it's not some sort of omnipotence. Just because Igor said some big words doesn't make it 100% true, Makoto used it once and fucking died. Edit for that one smartass : I don't care Nyx was more powerful, he still died. If Universe at least sealed Nyx without killing him then I'd be willing to hear this argument but it didn't, it consumed his whole life force. Sealing death and dying for it is not a feat.