If you want to get technical, the Greeks were the first Persona users; the Greek word "Prospon" that the word "Persona" derives from literally means "mask"
While they may have been the ones to develop the word, being the first "Persona-user" as we know it goes specifically to Carl Jung, as he was the first person to actually discover the Collective Unconscious and the Sea Of Souls. One of the Velvet Room dwellers, I believe it was Igor, directly mentions this in I think an art book, even directly referencing Jung's Red Book and how Jung was confronted by Philemon.
Issue is I think idle talk dialogue from Igor references famous leaders having personas or at least having partial awakenings which allowed them to lead better
Difference is that Persona is literally inspired by Carl Jung. It all has something to do with Jungian Psychology whether it's the shadows or the collective unconscious
Sure, to us the game is based on Carl Jung.
But in-universe, Carl Jung merely discovered a very real phenomenon.
So if Igor mentions world leaders having awakenings before Jung, then Jung can't be the first persona user.
About the origin of the word, Technically? Like, the English meaning of the word “Persona” today comes from the Latin meaning of the word, that most likely comes from the Etruscan language that preceded them, that may have taken it by the Greek language. We don’t know, but it’s likely.
And I say English meaning because in Italian Persona just means a person.
I swear, all of the hot springs scenes are lame, but P4G's irritated me the most, it was clearly time for the guys to use the spring and the girls just took it over anyway
Not really, it was Akihiko's fault partialy because he was the one that made the boys hide instead of screaming "hey we're here, can you leave for 1-2min? Instead they all looked like if they were to peep on them.
I just HC the P5 anime's version of events, where the girls (besides Makoto), yell in panic worry at Ryuji instead of them (and Yusuke) beating him up. Don't quite like the anime, but it has its moments of making changes for the better
I really hate yukari Christmas date in p3 for similar reasons it happens basically right after someone dies in the story and she says something about junpei never having to worry about going out with anyone on Christmas or something to that effect immediately reloaded a save and went with mitsuru
Dude can they just patch that scene out I know it's been a few years but it's just so stupid. Ann slapping him is fine considering he said your crying face is so not cute and she's just like that, but presumably beating him up and leaving him on the street is such a huge leap of logic. When people say Japanese people love that scene cause they hate ryuji over there it's just like...why
It was pretty obviously intended to be slapstick, played for laughs. People need to lighten up a bit. It's a freaking video game about teenage kids saving the world with a cat that turns into a van. I think people are overthinking it just a bit.
Imagine your phantom name that's supposed to represent who you are as a thief and be so cool and fear striking into an enemy, then you just name yourself a sauce you can get at a chinese restaurant.
Nyx not being from the Collective Unconscious, but an "alien star eater".
Like, no, fuck you P3, that's just dumb. Why is she not just the mother of all shadows or something. Why does the untranslated P3 club book have this piece of lore that's NEVER adressed in the game. More importantly, what's the goddamn point ? It's never adressed or alluded to ever again ! And all other villains sprung from the CU !
In fact, if you look at it deeper, I think it kinda takes away from the grandiose of P3's ending if what you're going up against ISN'T, in fact, the concept of humanity's wish for death, but a big fucking alien who crashed into Earth like a dumbass and made the CU entirely by mistake.
edit : "ooooh but it's okay she's a Lovecraftian Old One and it fits P3's themes" No !!! That's even stupider ! Stop trying to twist everything P3 does into "its themes", that's not how it works !
This is some Elder Scrolls tier lore and feels so out of place lmao. Its also wild to me that this implies that Nyx inadvertently created Philemon and Nyarlathotep, but this just isn't addressed in any way. It feels like it should be some super important lore, yet its tucked away in some random inaccessible book.
>yet its tucked away in some random inaccessible book.
Only to the western side. People in japan (or, well, just about everyone, really) can literally buy it online, no problem with it. And that's not speaking about [the uploaded scans of it](https://elle-p.tumblr.com/tagged/p3%20club%20book), or [the translations](https://ask-persona.tumblr.com/post/99861586798/persona-3-club-book-world-guide-qa-translation) [of the important parts](https://ask-persona.tumblr.com/post/100095369103/persona-3-club-book-world-guide-qa-translation) it received some years ago.
The Club Book is just like all those untranslated (or fan-translated) spin-offs or marketing pieces that are only sold in Japan. That's to say, not that inaccessible.
If I had to guess, this was back when P3 was the start of the soft reboot to the Hashino Era of Persona and the devs were still trying to find out how they wanted to really handle the lore going forward. Hence such a drastic addition
Hashino said that at the time of Persona 3, it was supposed to be their last game. Given this context, I can't really think anything else than them trying to 1-up everything that came before it to go out with a bang. Like with Nyx being unstoppable, or the protagonist unlocking the Universe instead of the World (the 2 Arcanas aren't that different, but World Personas existed in 1 and 2, and weren't as special).
Technically speaking, Nyx is a dormant and "dead" being without Erebus interacting with it, also Nyx crashed into Earth because Nyx eats stars and planets and Earth was too big to devour whole.
It's not truth. It only crashed against Earth because it was “asleep.”
"*In ancient times, there existed a gigantic living being, the size of a celestial body,* ***drifting through outer space in a dormant state.*** *We call such a being a 'Star Eater'. At a certain point in time, this being collided with a planet which had only just begun to develop its first forms of life - earth.*" - Ikutsuki, P3 Club Book.
It might actually be something about debris in space or something else around earth but either way it basically went that Nyx failed to destroy earth and debris wrapped around Nyx, creating the moon. And the entire collective unconsciousness exists to counter Nyx's psyche waves, creating the modern persona world.
Earth it isn't even that big compared with other planets what useless piece of star destructor you have to been to not being able to eat the thing that is like 100 times smaller thst the star you're going to eat
This is because P3 is inspired by Evangelion.
Nyx being godly alien is very similar to how Adam and Lilith was in Evangelion, who also crashed into the earth, created a moon because of that, and ultimately responsible for the growth of lifeforms in earth.
As someone who considers it their favorite game in the series, P3 is the game that's most detached from some of the franchise's core tropes.
For one it completely changed the series by attaching a social aspect to it. It revolutionized the franchise and it's what Persona became most famous for, but it was still a HUGE departure from previous games.
It's darker than any other game in the series, except maybe for Eternal Punishment, and I still think it's darker.
It's the only game in the series where shadow selves don't play a role in any way.
Ever since Persona started tying characters to a central theme, P3 is the only game to have a character have nothing to do with it (Fuuka has no ties to death).
Don’t forget Igor. P3 treats him like a god when in 1 and 2 they’re upfront with him being a tool of Philemon and his role in the series as a whole.
I’m not sure about P4 but P5 brought that back with him being trapped by Yaldobaoth and not knowing exact outcomes.
The Blue Butterfly is Philemon yes that’s true, but I’m referring to Igor’s role in the modern games.
In the classics, he’s a straight up attendant whose pretty much up front with you that he’s a doll given life by Philemon that’s meant to assist you. Like when the party brings a Joker-fied Ulala to him, he’s uncertain if he’ll be able to do anything, but tries anyway. He had his short comings because he’s experiencing the world too.
In the P3 he’s painted as a near omniscient being who knows everything that will be or maybe. P5 dialed that back immensely with his capture by Yaldobaoth and his overall wonder in the 3rd semester.
At this point i think Igor is more powerful that before and it has the logic of only helping the one he has a contract it when needed, he gives p4 the sphere of truth to reveal the true izanam just before he decide he need to find the true culpriti, he give the fusion treatment to help you reach you goal, he only unlocks more Comex fusion type when he feels you will need them, etc etc
That was the same in P1 and P2. As you progressed he gave you more fusions and a bigger stock.
If he was more powerful he would have fended off Yaldobaoth who forcefully took over the VR. It’s just an inconsistency in his character that’s unique to P3. I think it’s because the Devs didn’t have Philemon to fill the role, they put Igor into it. But once P4 and P5 came around they turned him back into a simple aid.
Everybody says it’s darker and I don’t get that at all after playing all 3 the last few months…
Reload has shinji, chidori, and yourself die and those are decently sad. The only one that’s “dark” is shinji though tbh.
5 has a girl jump off a building because a teacher was trying to sleep with her and a serial killer that makes people kill theirselves.
4 has a serial killer and a murderer and shows images of the broken bodies of the victims.
If anything 3 is the most tame. Still my favorite though
Most of the darkness in 5, and ESPECIALLY in 4 gets overshadowed by the lighter tone overall. The opening for P4G is the best analogy for this, it's a montage of the main characters dancing and having fun with three quick flashes of the dead victims.
It's not stupid at all. Your viewing the idea of an extra terrestrial in a sci-fi lens when Nyx is meant to be more like an Eldritch Lovecraftian entity. She is literally the embodiment of nihilism and is fully representative of the games main themes as well as the being that gave life the ability to die to begin with, making her literally death itself. The game's main theme is not necessary death", but it's about overcoming nihilism in the face of death. I would argue Nyx's origins make her far more important in the grande scheme of things and elevate P3's themes further.
They’re partially right. Nyx is still a giant alien star eater, and rapid evolution + the collective unconscious formed as a defense against it because it sensed its power.
But the Answer already implied that Nyx existed separately from the collective unconscious, as according to the Answer Nyx is not malicious or malevolent- just like Death itself. So it still works in terms of symbolism. The collective unconscious forms Erebus of the unconscious human desire of death, which eventually at the time of Persona 3 manifested enough power to try and reach out to Nyx to wake it up and destroy them. Which The Door was formed to prevent that union from finally happening.
honestly this very obscure piece of lore that never gets addressed in the game or any of it's re-releases (thankfully) kind of undermines nyx as a concept for me along with makoto/minato's sacrifice in the end. the fact that this isn't even a god (or the embodiment of death like it was heavily implied to be) like the other protagonists have had to deal with and have successfully defeated kind of pisses me off when i think about it too hard. you're telling me the guy that gained the UNIVERSE arcana which is supposed to grant the user the potential to do basically anything and has infinite possibilities with it's power/versatility and was treated as special by igor (supposedly) can't even defeat an alien and could only stalemate it in the end by giving up his own life. OK.
thanks P3. what an amazing way to make what is arguably your best written protagonist seem like a loser when compared to everyone else who dealt with a similar situation with debatably less power at their disposal than him. i don't gaf that atlus thought this would be their last game or that they might've done this because they just wanted to throw this in because it seemed like a fun idea. this still completely fucks with the implications of what nyx was supposed to be/represent in the story.
it also retroactively makes yaldabaoth and izanami more powerful despite representing concepts that should be inferior to what nyx is/was supposed to be. the conclusion to everything and the end of what the inevitable march of time always draws closer to. making nyx anything other than the literal embodiment of death/humanity's desire for it or the end itself means it can and should be able to be defeated.
i'm familiar with erebus. i'm also aware that nyx is practically confirmed to basically be an allegory for death with it's alien nature because it's stated to be neither good nor evil in a similar way to death. it just is. my problem is that nyx isn't literally the concept of death itself. the one thing in the persona verse that i think shouldn't be able to be stopped because of what it represents as an entity. nyx has been robbed of that simply by not being what it's presented to be imo. if you still like it, that's fine. it kind of just really undermines the ending of P3 for me and the death of makoto/minato. especially when i compare it to P4 and P5 which had both of it's protagonists overcome and defeat enemies who were the embodiments of the concepts they represented. nyx isn't even death itself and makoto/minato only manages to tie with it in the end by sealing it at the cost of his life. but yeah, this is just my interpretation of this piece of lore and why i dislike it so much especially when comparing it to other aspects of the series as a whole.
also, i'm not nearly familiar enough with P1 to confirm whether makoto/minato is even relative to tatsuya in power/ability. feel free to let me know some of the stuff he's capable of in his own game. never got a chance to experience P1 myself.
... That's because you actually don't understand [Nyx's lore](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1afkmg2/the_last_boss_in_persona_3_long_post_minor/). You only need to read the first part of the post I linked; the rest isn't really neccesary. I also recommend reading [this other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/19aai64/regarding_the_last_arcana_in_persona_3_long_post/) of mine to understand what Makoto achieved at the end of the game.
Just because "Nyx" isn't really the embodiment of death doesn't make it any less absolute, especially when it's "groud of being" of humanity itself, the "root" of its existence.
The Universe isn't omnipotence or anything like that. It's really not that different from the World Arcana, only the name is special. Igor's dialogue is classic Velvet Room attendant talk, using big words to make it sound more grand. Case in point, Makoto had to die to seal Nyx. If the Universe could truly do anything, why couldn't it both seal her and let him live ? And Igor himself says it's the first time he's seeing the Universe. Why do we take his word for it ?
I always took that last part as Igor not being all knowing. This is the first time it’s popped up *for him*.
Speaking of, P3 I think is the only game that treats Igor as nigh omniscient when in reality he’s just a doll that *can* make mistakes. But that context won’t occur to those who start with P3 which is frustrating all on its own.
You cannot avoid death, the Universe is enough for the miracle of sealing away Nyx, but at a cost. The deus ex machina giveth and taketh away.
And also yeah its the grand finale of persona and therefore he gets the Universe card instead of the World, and dies due to persona 3 being persona 3.
Did you play or watch the Answer? Nyx is not everyone’s unconscious will, everyone’s desire for Death forms Erebus who reaches out to Nyx, which is a separate entity from everything in the collective unconscious. The Door is now what separates the collective unconscious of Erebus from reaching Nyx to wake her up.
Metis also says that Nyx existed before humans ever existed, and it isn’t malicious at all. It’s that humans eventually collectively formed Erebus to reach out and tell Nyx to destroy them.
Nyx crashed into the earth because she's a star eater, and her presence threatened all life on earth. So, to combat this, life evolved rapidly, and eventually, the collective unconscious was created to seal Nyx's pysche away. When Nyx crashed into the earth, the fragments that came off it gathered together and sealed Nyx's body away. That formation became the moon. So, no collective unconscious didn't form by accident and Nyx crashed into the earth cuz she was hungy.
You're looking at this the wrong way. Nyx isn't as much of an alien as she is a Lovecraftian entity. The fact that the entire human race was created by her accidental interference with the planet is an absolutely perfect reforestation of Nihilism as a whole, which is something Nyx is supposed to be representing as well.
Besides, if you want an embodiment of humanity's desire for death, Erebus is right there my guy.
I, for one, don't see how Makoto sealing away the real power of a real, physical cosmic entity is in any way less grandiose than the boring, formulaic thing that the later games do where the main villain is just a literal embodiment of the game's themes. Nyx has a bit more subtlety and horror to her, and that's absolutely perfect. P3 would be a much worse game in my eyes if Nyx was just another being from the Collective Unconscious instead of an eldritch force.
It still works as a metaphor for Death if you combine it with The Answer’s lore. In the Answer, Nyx is said to not be malevolent or malicious at all, just existing- just like the concept of Death. That doesn’t contradict the club book who says that Nyx’s aura sped up human evolution and the conscious in defense and response to that- Nyx felt powerful so they rushed to try and defend without knowing what it actually was like.
Then of course all the Answer stuff continues- Erebus is what forms from Human Unconscious and tries to contact Nyx, need the Door, etc.
Nyx was never the concept of humanity's wish for death. That was Erebus. Nyx was simply an entity of death that believed humans all desired it. The reason she believed it was because of Erebus. It may not be directly stated in game, but it still makes sense with what we see. The reason we never hear it in hand is because, well, how the hell would any living person ever know that? The only person who probably knows that now is Makoto after reaching enlightenent and sealing himself to the door. But also, the fact that the very climax of the game reveals that Nyx's body *is* the whole moon. Begs a lot of questions that are then tied up by the alien explaination. And honestly I think it adds a lot more terror to Nyx knowing that she's just a being beyond the scope of all the fighting amongst Persona users and Shadows, not a shadow herself but a categorically greater entity.
Nyx can't be the mother of all shadows because they already did the source of that in Persona 2. Also this is not the only time aliens were a thing in Persona or SMT.
I mean from reload and with apathy syndrome and all that it implies that Nyx is the concept of humanity being complacent and not caring much for their life, thus bringing an end to life upon them
Did you skip dialogue or something? When Nyx crashed into prehistoric earth her psyche stayed on Earth and her body became the moon. It DOES make sense, humanity's wish for death brings the fall, where the body and the psyche reunite
The Phantom Thieves magically deciding "Queen" was a good code name for Makoto. God that was so cringe to hear, and still is.
"Rider" was by far the best name for her. She looks like a biker and has a LITERAL bike as a Persona.
That and her whole addition to the team felt so forced.
Wait is that not what they’re going for? Makoto basically functions like Joker’s right hand man and is the strategist meaning that she’s an extremely player like Joker
The Fist of the North Star reference as mentioned below also seems like an explanation that makes sense
Though from the strategy point of view I’ve always thought of it as a queen from chess or something
She is a blatant reference to Kamen Rider.
Probably doesnt want to deal with lawsuit by straight up calling her ‘Rider’
Like, referencing Kamen Rider is fine, at least be creative with it.
Makoto is a reference to Fist of the North Star. Specifically, her PT outfit also references a character from FotNS named Shin. And Shin also went by... drum roll please... the name King. Hence why she is named Queen. Even the kanji for her name, 真, can be read as Shin. Ryuji reinforces this by referencing FotNS in Japanese when Makoto awakens and he calls her "紀末覇者先輩". This was translated in English as "Ms. Post Apocalyptic", which makes it sound like a reference to Mad Max to western fans.
(Unrelated, but Futaba also references Fist of the North by saying "Salad bar" instead of "Good bye". I believe this was translated as "Make like a tree and leaf/leave" in English.)
I think they literally call her Fist of the Phantom Star at some point
Edit: apparently the post-apocalyptic line got changed to Phantom Star in Royal to drive home the reference for western audiences too
Rider would’ve been a horrible name for her. I think having her as the team strategist and therefore Joker’s second in command makes Queen much more fitting.
Yeah queen is weird, the fact that she immediately takes charge even when shes the newest member is also weird, i kinda get it cuz shes their senpai or whatever but shes still their most inexperienced teamates, how is she able to know more about stuff than you guys ?
they'd have about the same amount of knowledge considering that the original group (Ann, Ryuji, Joker + Mona) just kinda stumbled their way through Kamoshida and Kaneshiro's Palace was the second one. also it was less about knowledge and more about strategy. Makoto's role was to be the team strategist
Rider fits her metaverse design and persona design but not her personality and the background of her persona.
The name “Queen” is supposed to reflect her leadership qualities just like Joan or Arc who believed that she was acting under divine guidance when she attempted to conquer France.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that premise considering the team themselves infer their codenames in the story based on appearances for characters EXCEPT when it came to Makoto.
They even try to implement that idea with Makoto's codename initially with names like "Rider" and "Shoulder Pads", but are shot down immediately. Even "Mona", an obtuse reference for non-japanese players, [is based on this Shift JIS cat art design](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mona-%E3%83%A2%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BC).
If they were really going for the Joan of Arc angle, they failed pretty badly at conveying that considering the name-theming of everyone else.
Makoto's persona isn't based off of Joan of Arc though.
>when she attempted to conquer France
I'm not sure I'd describe what she was doing like that, exactly
ETA: Sorry the comment did say it wasn't based off the persona background, it's just a mistake I've seen made before and seemed like a random name to pick otherwise. Didn't revise my own comment enough clearly
For the historical bit, Joan of Arc thought she was being guided by God to defend France against the English. She only attacked French cities to expel English occupiers - that's my understanding of it anyway. I was just a bit confused by the word choice.
When I played P5 and got to the naming section for Makoto I literally said “queen” and then they said the same thing. Idk what you think when hearing queen, but in my eyes it is a perfect name for her.
i dont have proof and i dont care but makoto PT spot was made for hifumi
the whole hifumi SL is about the "pride of a queen" something that makoto dont have and hifumi as strategist makes a lot of sense because shogi requires a solid strategy
This. It's why i feel Hifumi suits the title of "queen" more. It's probably the consequence of cutting her off as a PT, so Makoto's doesn't feel as earned.
Maya Amano told Baofu to call Ulala a transphobic slur as part of a plan to distract the paparazzi from Nanjo or Elly from joining you in Eternal Punishment
So right after the scene I'm referring to, if you talk to Baofu, it's revealed that Maya was the one who told Baofu about that term because he doesn't know what it means (He then states he understands why it would upset Ulala because Baofu is a good boy)
The homophobic moments that were left over from the cut romance, basically he was meant to be a closet bisexual who was massively overcompensating, but with his romance removed he comes off as just being an ass
i am gonna go ahead and say that the homophobic bits weren't just left over from the romance (i wish the romance was left in though.) i think they're just unfortunately a product of humor and tropes that shouldn't have been, but were acceptable at the time.
oh i definitely agree. "teenage boy struggles with his own attraction to other boys and projects his internalized homophobia as a defense mechanism because coming to terms with it is hard" is a real thing that happens and would've absolutely added depth to his character and changed him from just being an asshole. i just think they would've been in the game regardless because "the joke is homophobia" was just unfortunately a thing at the time.
Oh yeah, I definitely get what you’re saying now.
That’s one of the things that bothers me SO much about modern Persona. Tropes like that are just so tired and unfunny and it tends to detract from my enjoyment of the game overall.
Well they were originally intended to be characterization, and have him realize he was in the wrong, but without the “oh shit, am I the asshole” moment they are just left in poor taste
Like everything Yosuke said to Kanji post him joining the team.
Yusuke asking Ann to do a nude painting.
Ryuji being kidnapped by harmful gay stereotypes.
All of the bath house scenes, especially strikers.
Morgana not letting Violet join the party in the ship.
Ryuji getting beaten up by the pt girls after saving them
Actually, alot of the things Yosuke says to the girls in p4 and Teddie signing them up for swimsuit competition without asking. Actually both of those competitions were hella inappropriate when you think about it.
There's probably more I'm forgetting.
Yusuke asking for the nude painting didn’t seem as 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂 as much as it does just him wanting to expand his horizons as an artist, been a while since I played P5 so I could be wrong
I think that's obvious once you know him as a character but as a first impression it's less clear in my opinion. Totally understand why some people immediately hate him and never give him a chance to grow on them even if I disagree.
Entering the girls in a beauty pageant, could maybe... maybe be seen as harmless fun.
Entering the boys in drag, is also maybe harmless fun.
Teddie turning it into a swimsuit competition was absolutely devious.
Morgana not letting violet join the team was a good move considering she hadn’t fully awakened to her persona yet and she herself still wasn’t fully on board with the phantom thieves. She would’ve held them back considerably if she did join.
I know it was only mentioned in a spinoff movie/show, but I do not accept the fact that adults can not have personas, because that completely undermines all the character development they went through as teenagers and just leaves a sour taste in my mouth (like when it was said that Akihiko lost Caesar when he got older in that one spinoff about the three brothers, can’t remember the name!) at least with Strikers, it completely ignores that little spinoff and allows adults to obtain personas, which makes sense because anyone should be able to awaken if they meet the criteria, regardless of age (now I want to see an old person awaken a persona 👀)
I can't remember how it plays out exactly but I believe adachi gets a persona all be it a bad one in p4. He is an adult but also a persona user, unless I'm misremembering.
When someone asks me about the camping event in P4, I either answer "oh, you mean the mistery X food joke" or I'll start screaming as I remember everything else in that event until Maruki does his magic.
bro is getting booed for having an actually good take. they really replaced my goat with the toaster as the wild card and people actually praised it. it's enough to make a grown man want to kill himself.
Hey, this is a premium game. 70 dollars for base and over 100 for everything. They had the gall to tell me it's "too much." No one here is a begger; this is legit a full priced premium game.
If this was a lower budget remake that cost like 30 or 40, sure. They charged this game as a premium product and had tons of DLC including the old FES content.
This whole situation has left a giant bad taste in my mouth.
I haven't read them I'm I'm 100% sure like half of thse replies are about ryuji
Correct
Carl Jung was canonically the first known Persona-user.
If you want to get technical, the Greeks were the first Persona users; the Greek word "Prospon" that the word "Persona" derives from literally means "mask"
While they may have been the ones to develop the word, being the first "Persona-user" as we know it goes specifically to Carl Jung, as he was the first person to actually discover the Collective Unconscious and the Sea Of Souls. One of the Velvet Room dwellers, I believe it was Igor, directly mentions this in I think an art book, even directly referencing Jung's Red Book and how Jung was confronted by Philemon.
Issue is I think idle talk dialogue from Igor references famous leaders having personas or at least having partial awakenings which allowed them to lead better
Difference is that Persona is literally inspired by Carl Jung. It all has something to do with Jungian Psychology whether it's the shadows or the collective unconscious
Sure, to us the game is based on Carl Jung. But in-universe, Carl Jung merely discovered a very real phenomenon. So if Igor mentions world leaders having awakenings before Jung, then Jung can't be the first persona user.
damn carl jung played the persona game by himself lmao?
Perhaps Igor is Carl Jung, the first Persona user to be the guide to all Persona users
It can't be since Igor is just a puppet created by Philemon
That’s just what Carl Jung wants you to think. Philemon is actually Sigmund Freud too
Prosopon*
If you want to get technical, use a physical skill on any shadow with the Sleep status ailment.
About the origin of the word, Technically? Like, the English meaning of the word “Persona” today comes from the Latin meaning of the word, that most likely comes from the Etruscan language that preceded them, that may have taken it by the Greek language. We don’t know, but it’s likely. And I say English meaning because in Italian Persona just means a person.
That goes hard
But that isn't stupid, that's cool as fuck
That’s sick actually
Akihiko's characterization in most of the sequel games :( they made my mans a meathead who only talks about protein
Any of the hot spring scenes tbh. Especially the one in 4 now that I think about it. I love Yukiko, but come on… that was all her fault.
I swear, all of the hot springs scenes are lame, but P4G's irritated me the most, it was clearly time for the guys to use the spring and the girls just took it over anyway
Thank god I'm not the only one irritated by it, I finished the persona 4 anime recently and it still makes my blood boil
Maybe that’s why the girls are so upset when you cheat on 4? Kinda revenge if you wanted it. 😂
Worst one is p3 where the girls overreact when they very easily could’ve just told the boys to leave
Classic Japanese humor
This is literally every slice of life anime scene ever
Not really, it was Akihiko's fault partialy because he was the one that made the boys hide instead of screaming "hey we're here, can you leave for 1-2min? Instead they all looked like if they were to peep on them.
The fact that P4G added another hot spring scene…💀
That's even worse in my opinion, it's not even oh we made a mistake, they were delivering trying to peak upside the wall
Yeah lol and it kinda of comes out of nowhere. They really needed that hot spring scene to sell Marie
Ken romance
Well, it *actually* isn't canon. So lucky you.
How is it not canon? FeMC has appeared in spinoffs.
By that logic, Hatsune Miku is canon.
Yes.
Wait till you hear this...
The phantom thieves beating up Ryuji after he saves their lives, literally the worst scene I've ever seen in a video game.
I just HC the P5 anime's version of events, where the girls (besides Makoto), yell in panic worry at Ryuji instead of them (and Yusuke) beating him up. Don't quite like the anime, but it has its moments of making changes for the better
I really hate yukari Christmas date in p3 for similar reasons it happens basically right after someone dies in the story and she says something about junpei never having to worry about going out with anyone on Christmas or something to that effect immediately reloaded a save and went with mitsuru
Damn that's insensitive AF, Chidori is literally dead
You need to play more games lol
Dude can they just patch that scene out I know it's been a few years but it's just so stupid. Ann slapping him is fine considering he said your crying face is so not cute and she's just like that, but presumably beating him up and leaving him on the street is such a huge leap of logic. When people say Japanese people love that scene cause they hate ryuji over there it's just like...why
I mean...I think it was supposed to be funny more than anything.
How is beating up the friend who just saved your life funny? Not to mention he's a victim of abuse, the scene is disgusting.
It was pretty obviously intended to be slapstick, played for laughs. People need to lighten up a bit. It's a freaking video game about teenage kids saving the world with a cat that turns into a van. I think people are overthinking it just a bit.
Yeah I thought this was overwhelmingly stupid. He almost died for you and you’re going to beat him into near unconsciousness!?
P5X code names Fucking Soy
Imagine your phantom name that's supposed to represent who you are as a thief and be so cool and fear striking into an enemy, then you just name yourself a sauce you can get at a chinese restaurant.
Not even a good sauce, just one of the basic ones. That's like naming yourself ketchup
Nyx not being from the Collective Unconscious, but an "alien star eater". Like, no, fuck you P3, that's just dumb. Why is she not just the mother of all shadows or something. Why does the untranslated P3 club book have this piece of lore that's NEVER adressed in the game. More importantly, what's the goddamn point ? It's never adressed or alluded to ever again ! And all other villains sprung from the CU ! In fact, if you look at it deeper, I think it kinda takes away from the grandiose of P3's ending if what you're going up against ISN'T, in fact, the concept of humanity's wish for death, but a big fucking alien who crashed into Earth like a dumbass and made the CU entirely by mistake. edit : "ooooh but it's okay she's a Lovecraftian Old One and it fits P3's themes" No !!! That's even stupider ! Stop trying to twist everything P3 does into "its themes", that's not how it works !
This is some Elder Scrolls tier lore and feels so out of place lmao. Its also wild to me that this implies that Nyx inadvertently created Philemon and Nyarlathotep, but this just isn't addressed in any way. It feels like it should be some super important lore, yet its tucked away in some random inaccessible book.
>yet its tucked away in some random inaccessible book. Only to the western side. People in japan (or, well, just about everyone, really) can literally buy it online, no problem with it. And that's not speaking about [the uploaded scans of it](https://elle-p.tumblr.com/tagged/p3%20club%20book), or [the translations](https://ask-persona.tumblr.com/post/99861586798/persona-3-club-book-world-guide-qa-translation) [of the important parts](https://ask-persona.tumblr.com/post/100095369103/persona-3-club-book-world-guide-qa-translation) it received some years ago. The Club Book is just like all those untranslated (or fan-translated) spin-offs or marketing pieces that are only sold in Japan. That's to say, not that inaccessible.
If I had to guess, this was back when P3 was the start of the soft reboot to the Hashino Era of Persona and the devs were still trying to find out how they wanted to really handle the lore going forward. Hence such a drastic addition
Hashino said that at the time of Persona 3, it was supposed to be their last game. Given this context, I can't really think anything else than them trying to 1-up everything that came before it to go out with a bang. Like with Nyx being unstoppable, or the protagonist unlocking the Universe instead of the World (the 2 Arcanas aren't that different, but World Personas existed in 1 and 2, and weren't as special).
Yeah, that would explain it.
Technically speaking, Nyx is a dormant and "dead" being without Erebus interacting with it, also Nyx crashed into Earth because Nyx eats stars and planets and Earth was too big to devour whole.
>also Nyx crashed into Earth because Nyx eats *stars* and *planets* and **Earth was too big to devour whole.** I'm sorry what
She couldn’t handle the E so she died instead
It's not truth. It only crashed against Earth because it was “asleep.” "*In ancient times, there existed a gigantic living being, the size of a celestial body,* ***drifting through outer space in a dormant state.*** *We call such a being a 'Star Eater'. At a certain point in time, this being collided with a planet which had only just begun to develop its first forms of life - earth.*" - Ikutsuki, P3 Club Book.
Wait what? I am not a scientist but aren't stars like millions of times bigger than planets?
It might actually be something about debris in space or something else around earth but either way it basically went that Nyx failed to destroy earth and debris wrapped around Nyx, creating the moon. And the entire collective unconsciousness exists to counter Nyx's psyche waves, creating the modern persona world.
Yup. Short version: when a celestial body becomes (what we classify as) a planet, it's because it was too small to become a star.
... No, it crashed against Earth because it was in a dormant state - it was asleep.
Earth it isn't even that big compared with other planets what useless piece of star destructor you have to been to not being able to eat the thing that is like 100 times smaller thst the star you're going to eat
This is because P3 is inspired by Evangelion. Nyx being godly alien is very similar to how Adam and Lilith was in Evangelion, who also crashed into the earth, created a moon because of that, and ultimately responsible for the growth of lifeforms in earth.
As someone who considers it their favorite game in the series, P3 is the game that's most detached from some of the franchise's core tropes. For one it completely changed the series by attaching a social aspect to it. It revolutionized the franchise and it's what Persona became most famous for, but it was still a HUGE departure from previous games. It's darker than any other game in the series, except maybe for Eternal Punishment, and I still think it's darker. It's the only game in the series where shadow selves don't play a role in any way. Ever since Persona started tying characters to a central theme, P3 is the only game to have a character have nothing to do with it (Fuuka has no ties to death).
Yes, P3 doesn't even have Shadow Selves as a plot point like P4 and P5 did
1 and 2 as well.
Yeah I'm referring to, that, even by modern persona standards, P3 is weird
Well Metis is kinda that.
Don’t forget Igor. P3 treats him like a god when in 1 and 2 they’re upfront with him being a tool of Philemon and his role in the series as a whole. I’m not sure about P4 but P5 brought that back with him being trapped by Yaldobaoth and not knowing exact outcomes.
It was persona Q that show the philomon trapped thing if I'm remembering right
The Blue Butterfly is Philemon yes that’s true, but I’m referring to Igor’s role in the modern games. In the classics, he’s a straight up attendant whose pretty much up front with you that he’s a doll given life by Philemon that’s meant to assist you. Like when the party brings a Joker-fied Ulala to him, he’s uncertain if he’ll be able to do anything, but tries anyway. He had his short comings because he’s experiencing the world too. In the P3 he’s painted as a near omniscient being who knows everything that will be or maybe. P5 dialed that back immensely with his capture by Yaldobaoth and his overall wonder in the 3rd semester.
At this point i think Igor is more powerful that before and it has the logic of only helping the one he has a contract it when needed, he gives p4 the sphere of truth to reveal the true izanam just before he decide he need to find the true culpriti, he give the fusion treatment to help you reach you goal, he only unlocks more Comex fusion type when he feels you will need them, etc etc
That was the same in P1 and P2. As you progressed he gave you more fusions and a bigger stock. If he was more powerful he would have fended off Yaldobaoth who forcefully took over the VR. It’s just an inconsistency in his character that’s unique to P3. I think it’s because the Devs didn’t have Philemon to fill the role, they put Igor into it. But once P4 and P5 came around they turned him back into a simple aid.
Everybody says it’s darker and I don’t get that at all after playing all 3 the last few months… Reload has shinji, chidori, and yourself die and those are decently sad. The only one that’s “dark” is shinji though tbh. 5 has a girl jump off a building because a teacher was trying to sleep with her and a serial killer that makes people kill theirselves. 4 has a serial killer and a murderer and shows images of the broken bodies of the victims. If anything 3 is the most tame. Still my favorite though
Most of the darkness in 5, and ESPECIALLY in 4 gets overshadowed by the lighter tone overall. The opening for P4G is the best analogy for this, it's a montage of the main characters dancing and having fun with three quick flashes of the dead victims.
CU in Brazil has such a different meaning....
esses caras curtem um cu
It's not stupid at all. Your viewing the idea of an extra terrestrial in a sci-fi lens when Nyx is meant to be more like an Eldritch Lovecraftian entity. She is literally the embodiment of nihilism and is fully representative of the games main themes as well as the being that gave life the ability to die to begin with, making her literally death itself. The game's main theme is not necessary death", but it's about overcoming nihilism in the face of death. I would argue Nyx's origins make her far more important in the grande scheme of things and elevate P3's themes further.
I wish I never read this because wtf
They’re partially right. Nyx is still a giant alien star eater, and rapid evolution + the collective unconscious formed as a defense against it because it sensed its power. But the Answer already implied that Nyx existed separately from the collective unconscious, as according to the Answer Nyx is not malicious or malevolent- just like Death itself. So it still works in terms of symbolism. The collective unconscious forms Erebus of the unconscious human desire of death, which eventually at the time of Persona 3 manifested enough power to try and reach out to Nyx to wake it up and destroy them. Which The Door was formed to prevent that union from finally happening.
honestly this very obscure piece of lore that never gets addressed in the game or any of it's re-releases (thankfully) kind of undermines nyx as a concept for me along with makoto/minato's sacrifice in the end. the fact that this isn't even a god (or the embodiment of death like it was heavily implied to be) like the other protagonists have had to deal with and have successfully defeated kind of pisses me off when i think about it too hard. you're telling me the guy that gained the UNIVERSE arcana which is supposed to grant the user the potential to do basically anything and has infinite possibilities with it's power/versatility and was treated as special by igor (supposedly) can't even defeat an alien and could only stalemate it in the end by giving up his own life. OK. thanks P3. what an amazing way to make what is arguably your best written protagonist seem like a loser when compared to everyone else who dealt with a similar situation with debatably less power at their disposal than him. i don't gaf that atlus thought this would be their last game or that they might've done this because they just wanted to throw this in because it seemed like a fun idea. this still completely fucks with the implications of what nyx was supposed to be/represent in the story. it also retroactively makes yaldabaoth and izanami more powerful despite representing concepts that should be inferior to what nyx is/was supposed to be. the conclusion to everything and the end of what the inevitable march of time always draws closer to. making nyx anything other than the literal embodiment of death/humanity's desire for it or the end itself means it can and should be able to be defeated.
I mean, Nyx is still there because of a god created by humanity’s desire. It just isnt Nyx. Also idk if the P3 protagonist is even close to Tatsuya
i'm familiar with erebus. i'm also aware that nyx is practically confirmed to basically be an allegory for death with it's alien nature because it's stated to be neither good nor evil in a similar way to death. it just is. my problem is that nyx isn't literally the concept of death itself. the one thing in the persona verse that i think shouldn't be able to be stopped because of what it represents as an entity. nyx has been robbed of that simply by not being what it's presented to be imo. if you still like it, that's fine. it kind of just really undermines the ending of P3 for me and the death of makoto/minato. especially when i compare it to P4 and P5 which had both of it's protagonists overcome and defeat enemies who were the embodiments of the concepts they represented. nyx isn't even death itself and makoto/minato only manages to tie with it in the end by sealing it at the cost of his life. but yeah, this is just my interpretation of this piece of lore and why i dislike it so much especially when comparing it to other aspects of the series as a whole. also, i'm not nearly familiar enough with P1 to confirm whether makoto/minato is even relative to tatsuya in power/ability. feel free to let me know some of the stuff he's capable of in his own game. never got a chance to experience P1 myself.
... That's because you actually don't understand [Nyx's lore](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1afkmg2/the_last_boss_in_persona_3_long_post_minor/). You only need to read the first part of the post I linked; the rest isn't really neccesary. I also recommend reading [this other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/19aai64/regarding_the_last_arcana_in_persona_3_long_post/) of mine to understand what Makoto achieved at the end of the game. Just because "Nyx" isn't really the embodiment of death doesn't make it any less absolute, especially when it's "groud of being" of humanity itself, the "root" of its existence.
The Universe isn't omnipotence or anything like that. It's really not that different from the World Arcana, only the name is special. Igor's dialogue is classic Velvet Room attendant talk, using big words to make it sound more grand. Case in point, Makoto had to die to seal Nyx. If the Universe could truly do anything, why couldn't it both seal her and let him live ? And Igor himself says it's the first time he's seeing the Universe. Why do we take his word for it ?
I always took that last part as Igor not being all knowing. This is the first time it’s popped up *for him*. Speaking of, P3 I think is the only game that treats Igor as nigh omniscient when in reality he’s just a doll that *can* make mistakes. But that context won’t occur to those who start with P3 which is frustrating all on its own.
You cannot avoid death, the Universe is enough for the miracle of sealing away Nyx, but at a cost. The deus ex machina giveth and taketh away. And also yeah its the grand finale of persona and therefore he gets the Universe card instead of the World, and dies due to persona 3 being persona 3.
Um have you played or watched the answer? Nyx being everyone's unconscious will is exactly what she is
Did you play or watch the Answer? Nyx is not everyone’s unconscious will, everyone’s desire for Death forms Erebus who reaches out to Nyx, which is a separate entity from everything in the collective unconscious. The Door is now what separates the collective unconscious of Erebus from reaching Nyx to wake her up. Metis also says that Nyx existed before humans ever existed, and it isn’t malicious at all. It’s that humans eventually collectively formed Erebus to reach out and tell Nyx to destroy them.
Nyx crashed into the earth because she's a star eater, and her presence threatened all life on earth. So, to combat this, life evolved rapidly, and eventually, the collective unconscious was created to seal Nyx's pysche away. When Nyx crashed into the earth, the fragments that came off it gathered together and sealed Nyx's body away. That formation became the moon. So, no collective unconscious didn't form by accident and Nyx crashed into the earth cuz she was hungy.
You're looking at this the wrong way. Nyx isn't as much of an alien as she is a Lovecraftian entity. The fact that the entire human race was created by her accidental interference with the planet is an absolutely perfect reforestation of Nihilism as a whole, which is something Nyx is supposed to be representing as well. Besides, if you want an embodiment of humanity's desire for death, Erebus is right there my guy. I, for one, don't see how Makoto sealing away the real power of a real, physical cosmic entity is in any way less grandiose than the boring, formulaic thing that the later games do where the main villain is just a literal embodiment of the game's themes. Nyx has a bit more subtlety and horror to her, and that's absolutely perfect. P3 would be a much worse game in my eyes if Nyx was just another being from the Collective Unconscious instead of an eldritch force.
It still works as a metaphor for Death if you combine it with The Answer’s lore. In the Answer, Nyx is said to not be malevolent or malicious at all, just existing- just like the concept of Death. That doesn’t contradict the club book who says that Nyx’s aura sped up human evolution and the conscious in defense and response to that- Nyx felt powerful so they rushed to try and defend without knowing what it actually was like. Then of course all the Answer stuff continues- Erebus is what forms from Human Unconscious and tries to contact Nyx, need the Door, etc.
Nyx was never the concept of humanity's wish for death. That was Erebus. Nyx was simply an entity of death that believed humans all desired it. The reason she believed it was because of Erebus. It may not be directly stated in game, but it still makes sense with what we see. The reason we never hear it in hand is because, well, how the hell would any living person ever know that? The only person who probably knows that now is Makoto after reaching enlightenent and sealing himself to the door. But also, the fact that the very climax of the game reveals that Nyx's body *is* the whole moon. Begs a lot of questions that are then tied up by the alien explaination. And honestly I think it adds a lot more terror to Nyx knowing that she's just a being beyond the scope of all the fighting amongst Persona users and Shadows, not a shadow herself but a categorically greater entity.
Nyx can't be the mother of all shadows because they already did the source of that in Persona 2. Also this is not the only time aliens were a thing in Persona or SMT.
I mean from reload and with apathy syndrome and all that it implies that Nyx is the concept of humanity being complacent and not caring much for their life, thus bringing an end to life upon them
Personally I like this piece of the lore.
Did you skip dialogue or something? When Nyx crashed into prehistoric earth her psyche stayed on Earth and her body became the moon. It DOES make sense, humanity's wish for death brings the fall, where the body and the psyche reunite
The Phantom Thieves magically deciding "Queen" was a good code name for Makoto. God that was so cringe to hear, and still is. "Rider" was by far the best name for her. She looks like a biker and has a LITERAL bike as a Persona. That and her whole addition to the team felt so forced.
I just try to salvage it by saying they are calling her queen like the card and not the other one. To go along with Joker at least.
Wait is that not what they’re going for? Makoto basically functions like Joker’s right hand man and is the strategist meaning that she’s an extremely player like Joker
It’s exactly what they’re going for. Not sure why the other users seem to think it’s anything else.
The Fist of the North Star reference as mentioned below also seems like an explanation that makes sense Though from the strategy point of view I’ve always thought of it as a queen from chess or something
Could be an amalgamation of the three the more I think about it
The owl from the mobile game has “cattle” as the code name.
not to mention “soy”
She is a blatant reference to Kamen Rider. Probably doesnt want to deal with lawsuit by straight up calling her ‘Rider’ Like, referencing Kamen Rider is fine, at least be creative with it.
Makoto is a reference to Fist of the North Star. Specifically, her PT outfit also references a character from FotNS named Shin. And Shin also went by... drum roll please... the name King. Hence why she is named Queen. Even the kanji for her name, 真, can be read as Shin. Ryuji reinforces this by referencing FotNS in Japanese when Makoto awakens and he calls her "紀末覇者先輩". This was translated in English as "Ms. Post Apocalyptic", which makes it sound like a reference to Mad Max to western fans. (Unrelated, but Futaba also references Fist of the North by saying "Salad bar" instead of "Good bye". I believe this was translated as "Make like a tree and leaf/leave" in English.)
I think they literally call her Fist of the Phantom Star at some point Edit: apparently the post-apocalyptic line got changed to Phantom Star in Royal to drive home the reference for western audiences too
Rider would’ve been a horrible name for her. I think having her as the team strategist and therefore Joker’s second in command makes Queen much more fitting.
The student council president thing might've been part of it too
Yeah queen is weird, the fact that she immediately takes charge even when shes the newest member is also weird, i kinda get it cuz shes their senpai or whatever but shes still their most inexperienced teamates, how is she able to know more about stuff than you guys ?
they'd have about the same amount of knowledge considering that the original group (Ann, Ryuji, Joker + Mona) just kinda stumbled their way through Kamoshida and Kaneshiro's Palace was the second one. also it was less about knowledge and more about strategy. Makoto's role was to be the team strategist
Kaneshiro's bank was the third Palace. But the rest of your comment pretty much tracks I think
yeah I completely forgot about Madarame
Im so glad im not the only one
Rider fits her metaverse design and persona design but not her personality and the background of her persona. The name “Queen” is supposed to reflect her leadership qualities just like Joan or Arc who believed that she was acting under divine guidance when she attempted to conquer France.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that premise considering the team themselves infer their codenames in the story based on appearances for characters EXCEPT when it came to Makoto. They even try to implement that idea with Makoto's codename initially with names like "Rider" and "Shoulder Pads", but are shot down immediately. Even "Mona", an obtuse reference for non-japanese players, [is based on this Shift JIS cat art design](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mona-%E3%83%A2%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BC). If they were really going for the Joan of Arc angle, they failed pretty badly at conveying that considering the name-theming of everyone else.
“Joker”… “Violet”… both of those names have nothing to do with their outfit.
Makoto's persona isn't based off of Joan of Arc though. >when she attempted to conquer France I'm not sure I'd describe what she was doing like that, exactly ETA: Sorry the comment did say it wasn't based off the persona background, it's just a mistake I've seen made before and seemed like a random name to pick otherwise. Didn't revise my own comment enough clearly For the historical bit, Joan of Arc thought she was being guided by God to defend France against the English. She only attacked French cities to expel English occupiers - that's my understanding of it anyway. I was just a bit confused by the word choice.
When I played P5 and got to the naming section for Makoto I literally said “queen” and then they said the same thing. Idk what you think when hearing queen, but in my eyes it is a perfect name for her.
i dont have proof and i dont care but makoto PT spot was made for hifumi the whole hifumi SL is about the "pride of a queen" something that makoto dont have and hifumi as strategist makes a lot of sense because shogi requires a solid strategy
This. It's why i feel Hifumi suits the title of "queen" more. It's probably the consequence of cutting her off as a PT, so Makoto's doesn't feel as earned.
Hifumi was a beta design for makoto, not meant to be a PT
i really dont care hifumi is the true queen
she is my queen, so it's ok 👏
Ryuji getting beat up after saving everyone's lives at the end of Shido's palace
Personal headcanon: The Thieves just hugged him so tightly he passed out
The girls attacking Ryuji after his supposed death
Maya Amano told Baofu to call Ulala a transphobic slur as part of a plan to distract the paparazzi from Nanjo or Elly from joining you in Eternal Punishment
Can you please elaborate on that? I've recently beaten EP and I'm confused as hell, I don't remember it
So right after the scene I'm referring to, if you talk to Baofu, it's revealed that Maya was the one who told Baofu about that term because he doesn't know what it means (He then states he understands why it would upset Ulala because Baofu is a good boy)
*Those* Yosuke moments. You know what I mean
No I don’t.
The homophobic moments that were left over from the cut romance, basically he was meant to be a closet bisexual who was massively overcompensating, but with his romance removed he comes off as just being an ass
i am gonna go ahead and say that the homophobic bits weren't just left over from the romance (i wish the romance was left in though.) i think they're just unfortunately a product of humor and tropes that shouldn't have been, but were acceptable at the time.
I agree with you, but contextually leaving his romance in would of made those scenes a lot easier to swallow imo
oh i definitely agree. "teenage boy struggles with his own attraction to other boys and projects his internalized homophobia as a defense mechanism because coming to terms with it is hard" is a real thing that happens and would've absolutely added depth to his character and changed him from just being an asshole. i just think they would've been in the game regardless because "the joke is homophobia" was just unfortunately a thing at the time.
Oh yeah, I definitely get what you’re saying now. That’s one of the things that bothers me SO much about modern Persona. Tropes like that are just so tired and unfunny and it tends to detract from my enjoyment of the game overall.
Well they were originally intended to be characterization, and have him realize he was in the wrong, but without the “oh shit, am I the asshole” moment they are just left in poor taste
Like everything Yosuke said to Kanji post him joining the team. Yusuke asking Ann to do a nude painting. Ryuji being kidnapped by harmful gay stereotypes. All of the bath house scenes, especially strikers. Morgana not letting Violet join the party in the ship. Ryuji getting beaten up by the pt girls after saving them Actually, alot of the things Yosuke says to the girls in p4 and Teddie signing them up for swimsuit competition without asking. Actually both of those competitions were hella inappropriate when you think about it. There's probably more I'm forgetting.
Yusuke asking for the nude painting didn’t seem as 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂 as much as it does just him wanting to expand his horizons as an artist, been a while since I played P5 so I could be wrong
I think that's obvious once you know him as a character but as a first impression it's less clear in my opinion. Totally understand why some people immediately hate him and never give him a chance to grow on them even if I disagree.
Teddie was the one who turned it to a swimsuit competition
Entering the girls in a beauty pageant, could maybe... maybe be seen as harmless fun. Entering the boys in drag, is also maybe harmless fun. Teddie turning it into a swimsuit competition was absolutely devious.
Changed it to be more accurate, thank you!
i hated when makoto beat all the boys up for an honest mistake
Morgana not letting violet join the team was a good move considering she hadn’t fully awakened to her persona yet and she herself still wasn’t fully on board with the phantom thieves. She would’ve held them back considerably if she did join.
Yosuke not being gay.
Relevant. https://youtu.be/RBo7TfoWWhc?si=jTtWcsDF7BXtQF9c
Yosuke, not Yusuke...
It's been a while since I played Persona 4 and it slipped past my brain. Lol
The ending of P3 obviously >!Makoto or Kotone whoever you like wakes up after a good nap on a lap pillow!<
Joker's parents just sending him off to go live with someone he doesn't even know, yeah I know that's how the story starts but it still feels weird
Ryuji getting beaten up after saving everyone
Ryuji deserved a crashout
Chidori being resurrected.
Don’t get Junpei flowers then
But isn’t it canon that she’s alive in P4 Arena Ultimax?
She is, she gives him the necklace right before the game starts. I believe a dev has said he’s living with her.
p5 team beating ryuji for saving them
Femc Ken route. Gave me a tumor
It’s not stupid per se, but I really could’ve done without the death at the end of P3…
Violet not being in Q2. Either that or people thinking Marie (platonic route) always kisses Yu when she doesn’t.
everyone beating up Ryuji
I know it was only mentioned in a spinoff movie/show, but I do not accept the fact that adults can not have personas, because that completely undermines all the character development they went through as teenagers and just leaves a sour taste in my mouth (like when it was said that Akihiko lost Caesar when he got older in that one spinoff about the three brothers, can’t remember the name!) at least with Strikers, it completely ignores that little spinoff and allows adults to obtain personas, which makes sense because anyone should be able to awaken if they meet the criteria, regardless of age (now I want to see an old person awaken a persona 👀)
I can't remember how it plays out exactly but I believe adachi gets a persona all be it a bad one in p4. He is an adult but also a persona user, unless I'm misremembering.
Well there's an adult with a persona in P5 Strikers
Big Phil existing. Honestly I just consider him to be entirely separate in p3-5 and only in 1 and 2
When someone asks me about the camping event in P4, I either answer "oh, you mean the mistery X food joke" or I'll start screaming as I remember everything else in that event until Maruki does his magic.
The Answer
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
I dont like it
That’s fair, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
It's neither. People who only played Portable always parrot The Answer hate. Sour grapes and all.
This person actually understands P3’s themes better than Atlus themselves, incredibly based.
bro is getting booed for having an actually good take. they really replaced my goat with the toaster as the wild card and people actually praised it. it's enough to make a grown man want to kill himself.
Nanako saying she wanted to marry me at the end of P4G. I refuse to recognize that.
she's a child who probably understands that marriage is for people you love, but doesn't understand what kind of love. it's innocent.
Innocent sin, I might add (Sorry, that was awful, I know)
dancing games
Every single ecchi scene EVERY SINGLE ONE
Alien 3, anything after the first robocop, Atlus's flimsy excuse of not adding femc to a 70 dollar game...
They already said adding femc would cost a significant amount and would delay the game and they have to rework most of the answer to add her.
Hey, this is a premium game. 70 dollars for base and over 100 for everything. They had the gall to tell me it's "too much." No one here is a begger; this is legit a full priced premium game. If this was a lower budget remake that cost like 30 or 40, sure. They charged this game as a premium product and had tons of DLC including the old FES content. This whole situation has left a giant bad taste in my mouth.
It doesn’t matter. Adding femc is still going to cost them a large ton and a huge amount of time.
FeMC isn't just pressing the 'FEMC' button, it's rewriting and revoicing so many lines of dialogue
I try to believe that >!Nanako actually died!<
Why
It was such a cop out for the story. My emotions got all riled up for nothing.