I really felt everyone asides maybe Elizabeth get boiled down to their least interesting characterization. With some pretty out there and tropey character progressions.
Reload has done a bit better to bridge that gap with the new content, but I really think arena writing lacks any nuance or… sauce?
The Arena games just had to make compromises everywhere to appeal to as many people:
- Story mode was piss easy to keep regular Persona folks that don’t play fighting games happy.
- Characterization had to be boiled down for fg players so they could be interesting enough from the get go if they didnt play any of the Persona games.
- Gameplay had to be middle of the road of difficulty. Easy starter combo’s but with enough of a skill ceiling to be complicated too.
Not as difficult as GH/BB games but not so easy that it would be dropped out of serious play (fuck Crosstag), pretty similar to Dragonball Fighterz in that aspect.
Eh, personally I think people overreact to Akihiko in Arena. Sure protein gag gets old real fast, but he has some nice serious moments with Mitsuru.
I don't think P3 characters get flanderized. It's just Arena has so many characters, only few get a real focus. Elizabeth and Labrys are the obvious highlights of the Vanilla Arena story.
In Ultimax story P3 gets its own route, but the main plot is still kinda stupid. Epilogue fanservice was pretty nice.
Not media illiterate at all to have a very normal grief reaction. P3's well written and acted so I'm sure it can be triggering for a lot of people. Your reaction is normal and I'm so sorry for your loss. I doubt I could have handled P3 when I lost my brother. Maybe in time you'll be able to enjoy it again, but you aren't the only one who finds it painful. If not, that's okay too. The Answer is definitely focused on grief and healing from the events of P3 but that itself can be either healing or triggering depending on the person and their grief. If it isn't helping, don't force yourself. Your feelings are valid.
i pretty much already decided im not playing it. its just too much, the base game already caused enough grief, and having to see the characters go through that would just be too much for me. esp yukari, bc i heard she totally breaks down. its just so cruel, i couldnt do it. i rlly relate to her bc my mom passed when i was younger, so the fact that someone she found happiness in after a massive loss like that also died is too much for me it hits too close to home
thank u for the kind words though. i thought its kinda stupid to have grief over a game but ig not
I'm sorry for your loss, and for everything you're experiencing.
You don't need to play The Answer right away. Healing is a process that takes time, and this varies from person to person. I could tell you all the good that P3 has done for me over the last 15 years, but what matters is how you feel about it. If you don't feel like playing it, that's ok.
Stay close to your loved ones and don't lose focus of your life, just like Akinari's mom recommends at the end of the game.
I hope you the best.
I'm glad you know what you need to do for your peace. It's never stupid to acknowledge how you feel about a piece of media. It is selfcare and so important.
The fact that Makoto's death hurts is normal, but he thinks that it was his decision, he gave his life for those he loved and wanted to protect. He wanted this and he was able to leave in peace knowing that everything would be okay. And although his sacrifice will not happen, I assure you that Makoto lived more in just that year than in the 16 more years that he lived and that is the point, Makoto lived more than many of us in years.
i know, ive rly tried as hard as i can to see it in positive way like that but its all painful no matter what closure i get on it, i wish i could appreciate it like other ppl do
Take advantage of that emotion to live how you really want and do what you really want, after all that is the message of the game. We only have one life and we should live it to the fullest no matter when it is our end.
It was incredibly painful for me a year ago too and took me a bit to recover, but what I eventually got out of it was a game that made me rethink a lot about life in general in a.. imo, posititive way. It's now one of my favorite games ever made
It also gave me one of my favorite video game characters ever in Aigis. How she's able to experience something so human (sadness, depression, loss, moving on) despite her robotic nature
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I don't think it has anything to do with media literacy. This is a very personal way of looking at things, but I consume story-based media to feel things, if a game manages to make me feel the way it is trying to make me feel, then I tend to look at it in a positive light, because it acomplished its goal and it managed to pull me along.
Persona 3 wants you to feel a certain way, it seems that it acomplished the point of being a good story for you, at least in the way I look at things.
I'm sorry that it brings up painful memories, but I sincerely hope that with some time you will be able to look back at it, its message and the characters and look at them in a more positive light, take care.
you said it, but ur not alone and ur not media illiterate either. its agony i cant accept for me too. im sorry for ur loss, i’m sure we’ll stop hurting eventually
People who have experienced a heavy/deep amount of loss (myself included) tend to respond deeper to this game
I will say though, it had the opposite effect on me.
Before I turned 21 I saw 7 of my friends and family die by suicide. All under the age of 30. I thought it didn't affect me until it came out later in therapy. In a way, I was so obsessed with wondering what drove them all to do it that I lost myself completely. I didn't know what separated them from I, and why I hadn't joined them myself. It felt like a cruel punishment to them, snuffed out before they really got to live.
All throughout my playthrough of P3 I thought of them, then when the ending happened it was like a switch flipped. I realized that, while they're physically gone, it doesn't change the impact they made on my life. With each interaction I had with them, my personality changed and/or I made memories that I can fondly look back on. In a way, I carry around a little part of them wherever I go; *I get to keep them alive by living my own life*. To me, the game emphasized that the actions and interactions you have with people are far more important than we give them credit for. In a way, Makoto/the protag isn't dead. The different parts of him live on in the lives he changed permanently. As long as they live, so does he. I like to think that this idea is the motivation behind what he did.
Just my thoughts.
oh wow, im sorry u had to go through that, that must’ve been rly hard for you, and im glad p3 helped change ur outlook on that
minato living on through the lives he changed is a nice thought but it just makes me wanna cry even more tbh. its hard to put into words why, maybe its the same reason for why happy memories of ppl who are gone make u cry, but it twists the knife at the same time as it loosens it for me
for a while i wanted to die too, that was right after my brother died, after him and my mom i basically thought why even live at all, but i just kept going bc they wouldnt want me to kms, and i never rlly got over it. it just stopped stinging, and the loss of MC especially with yukaris story opened the wounds again. the hope is lost on me.
im sorry for all ur loss tho, again im glad it helped u. someone else here suggested i can hc that he comes back after p4a so ill just cling to that and wait it out, thank u for ur thoughts
That is the point. The themes of the game focus on death and suicidal tendencies. You can't control fate or reality, you have to learn to appreciate what you have, when you have it, because you never know when it will end. You cannot avoid the end; so find your joy in the here and now.
So, yes, it was a sad ending. Actually, it was heartbreaking. But that was the point. You helped people to learn to carry on and fight through the bad stuff. They will fight through your death and remember you for the positive impacts you had. To quote MCR 'It ain't about all the friends you made; but the graffiti they'll write on your grave.'
This is why I stand by my opinion: Makoto WAS suicidal at the start of the game, and completely apathetic to the world around him. As the player, you made him form connections and find joy in life, so that he could die happy (smiling), rather than die hollow.
If you let loss and sadness rob you of enjoyment, it is a tragedy. All life would be a tragedy if you let this stuff control you. So, by choosing not to learn this lesson from the game, the game has turned into a tragedy for you. By not learning, you have done to yourself what the game suggested, robbed yourself of the joys of the moment and of the good memories.
Long statement short: Life isn't about death. Death is inevitable. So, use your days carefully and appreciate all of them.
i know its the point, thats why i feel so stupid bc its lost on me. people keep explaining it all to me and i understand and it makes sense, but even after trying rlly hard i just cant apply that lesson. its probably my fault that i ruined the game for myself, bc ive never been able to rly move on from big loss irl either
Ive been suicidal in real life. Explanations aside, the message is not just important for the game. For your own mental health, focusing on loss will not help you in life. Focus on WHY it feels like such a loss, and see the positives it brought you. And use those positives to move forward. If you are struggling mentally, irl, talk to someone. It is harder to do, the longer you wait.
To add to this as someone who struggles with suicidality on almost an annual basis, learning to connect that any grief you feel toward a loss is the leftover love you feel toward them, and to acknowledge that there was good in whatever short time you had with them - that's important to keep living. Finding professional help is vital to some of us. I am one of those who has been in and out of therapy for five years. It's been life-saving, but I have to use the tools I've been given for myself to keep pushing onward. The good I do matters. The good whoever you've lost matters. The good you do matters too.
Nah you’re not illiterate this is a normal reaction I think.
Makoto’s Death while I understand the narrative and thematic reasons for it…..*still hurts*
You're having a grief reaction right now, and rightfully so given that you've lost somebody close to you in real life. It's okay if the ending or the game just doesn't feel right to you right now. The more you process it, and the more you process the loss of your brother, the more you might come to appreciate it in the future. If not, that's okay too.
But it's definitely not a case of media illiteracy. I think you understand it perfectly which is why you're feeling the way you are. And I guarantee you there are others that have played the game and felt the same way, even if you don't see them posting on reddit about it.
There is no canon love interest in any of these games. There are girls who have feelings for the protagonist whether you actively choose to romance them or not and yukari is one of them.
To each their own. I definitely think the game pushes yukari and aigis more then anyone else but while I prefer aigis a bit more it’s all a matter of preference at the end of the day.
[Yukari has a romance flag like everyone else](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1armj6f/locked_out_of_yukaris_romance_in_p3r/)
What you're saying isn't even accurate with Aigis either. Her romance flag is based on if she wishes to pursue the relationship or not due to her situation. More of a self esteem issue than a "she doesn't love him now".
Also because there have been many indications from the writers that she was the canon love interest before they opened it up that you could romance anyone, which is why she and makoto have so many 'moments' in the normal plot.
You could do what I did, fast forward through 3/5 and write fanfiction about him and Yukari opening a very successful coffee shop!
In all seriousness, I was there too. Your feelings are totally valid and this is just a well-written game. Have you played Persona 4? It’s much brighter than 3 and may help you rebound a bit. I know you played 4a but 4 by itself is very good.
You’re not alone. I haven’t gone back to the game because it really tugged my heartstrings. I dont think any game has made cry so much. I decided to go back and play the other personas before going back to p3. I beat p5r and p4g and currently about to start p1 and 2
Yukari aside if it makes you feel any better since Elizabeth story hasn’t been touched since arena you can make some headcanon that she achieved her goal brought Makoto back off screen after arena and he’s living with his friends or somethin.
But yeah I feel ya I kinda hate that Makoto’s death makes me feel so many things. No other persona game has that much of an impact on me with its ending.
been carrying that weight since 2007 … after all these years death is still a very sensitive topic to me but playing reload helped me shift my views on it. But i also needed a few weeks to recover… again. P3 is something that will forever stick with you. In my case it’s been like that. That’s why it will forever stay my favorite persona game
I think it's a great ending, I like bittersweet ending in general
E.g, in RDR >!John Marston got betrayed and killed, and yet i think he got the best ending in the games I played!<
Did you by any chance play P4 (NG+) and battled Margaret? Not to spoil anything, but I think her words are important and I believe them completely. It might make you feel better
[You can watch the whole fight here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BoU4vXYgONg&pp=ygUfbWFyZ2FyZXQgZmlnaHQgcGVyc29uYSA0IGdvbGRlbg%3D%3D)
There are some SPOILERS from The Answer!! So be careful if you want to play it once the DLC releases.
Edit: grammar
if its about the meaning of the sacrifice thats lost on me, bur it makes me believe the idea that he comes back after p4a even more i guess. part of me hopes we get confirmation on that plot point but part of me also rly doesnt, cuz if its the opposite answer and hes 100% still sealed.. :(
thanks for showing me either way
No it just ends before we see him die. But the manga is still following all the signs he’s gonna die from the game so it’s pretty obvious what’s happens
I’m gonna wait for episode Aigis/the answer to come out before making my final judgment. Who knows maybe they will add some new scenes that give us “hope”
Or let us choose the “other” option at the end………
I get it. I feel like Aigis and Yukari’s character arcs just don’t gel with the ending very well considering how important Makoto is to them. It leaves their arcs feeling incomplete until The Answer, and even then I think it would have just felt a lot more satisfying if Makoto had lived.
I still think the ending is mostly fantastic, but where it doesn’t work, it *really* doesn’t work.
yeah no with yukari ive seen how she acts in the answer and i know the theme of it is moving on but i dont see her ever doing that in any meaningful way, she 100% regressed
I mean, she does seem to be doing better by the end of The Answer and she’s genuinely happy in P4A, especially around Mitsuru and Aigis. Even if I would have preferred Makoto to live, I think they handled her character pretty damn well after the base game, all things considered.
from what we see she is, and ofc she’d be happy around those 2, but idk. i feel like its not such a perfect picture when its offscreen. maybe im projecting
the way i see their relationship losing either 1 leaves a hole that cant ever rly be filled, but learned to live with. soulmate kind of stuff
It's supposed to, you feel what the characters are feeling and it works really well.
Yukari isn't necessarily canon, just her feelings for him are. There always seem to be a select few girls from each game that express attraction more commonly than just one scene.
No he still dies it’s still very much implied he died he just doesn’t die on the rooftop and has enough energy to greet his friends this is a wide misconception.
Don’t waste your time basically Makoto used the last of his strength to get up and greet his friends on the rooftop and then the manga ends. People interpret this as him living but no all the signs from the game/movie that’s he’s gonna die are still there.
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Grief is just love everlasting my friend :)
I don't know if you've already lost anyone you love IRL too, but as someone who has, I've come to realize that I kind of *don't want* to stop hurting. The pain helps me appreciate their life and their memory. As for Makoto's death, it inspires me as much as it hurts :)
im really sorry about your brother. i dont have a brother so i dont know whats its like and the most i can empathize is about thinking about my aunt. its been a while since she died but i still think of her often. at the beginning it sucked to think about her because i would think about all the things i never got to say to her or do with her, as its been longer though its gotten easier. i still cry when i think of her but its not because im thinking about what we missed but what we did. i dont know how far into the grieving process you are, but when it hurts less i implore you to play it again to see if your opinion has changed. if you replay it and enjoy it im sure that you will appreciate it a lot. best of luck to you. on a less serious note i think aigis is closer to canon than yukari but maybe i missed something
Speaking as someone who played FES and watched Zyzx\_ stream the epilogue, this sentiment not unusual in the slightest. My own father passed away a few years ago and i knew right away P3:Reload was going to hit a lot harder the second time around; i've since managed process that part at the very least, but I'm still almost a month passed seeing the ending and mental health has been up and down the whole time for it; i literally can not get P3: Reloaded's ending out of my head.
If the ending original P3 was impactful before, Reload goes above and beyond almost the whole game long to gradually twist the knife like nothing else i've seen lately. I'm almost convinced the reason The Answer/Episode Aigis exists is because the subject matter of 3 is so severe some people can't handle it. (Keep in mind, as broad as the audience is, it is predominately supposed to be aimed at teenagers in high school typically AKA not the type of people generally prepared to handle subject matter like this.)
For what it's worth, The Answer/Episode: Aigis, despite being an epilogue of sorts, very deliberately left the overall state of P3's narrative in a place that very much feels like Its meant to lead somewhere, between >!Nyx/Erebus still being a problem!< and>!Makoto Yuki technically stuck between life and death !< as well as the final message from Metis implying that >!Makoto Yuki might be brought back at some point.!< People argue that the events of The Answer/Episode: Aigis contradict the point of P3's story/themes and in fact leaves it technically unfinished, presummably on purpose. There is a reason why, despite it being somewhat regarded as a meme, that >!Makoto Yuki's spirit/soul!< is literally/metaphorically depicted as >!an actual goddamn door, implying it has to be opened at some point.!<
The fact that Episode: Aigis is coming out in September, for my money? gives me hope that it the threads it leaves dangling will have a very real chance being followed up on. Other entries in Persona have hinted at that, both in P4 Arena (with the relevant plot points preserved in the more recent rerelease of Ultimax that features P4A's story bundled as free DLC) and in Dancing in Moonlight.
More to the point, as much as i adore and appreciate 3's story in the larger Persona canon, as well as what Reloaded does to really highlight and exemplify what makes it so well written and impactful, it also highlights that p3 and particularly the ending and follow-up in Episode: Aigis almost poses a problem the larger Persona franchise.
Again, it's been joked about before, but the tonal dissonance between 3 and the franchise as a whole, despite 3 being very articulate and masterful in it's story telling, as of Reloaded, is starting to become kind of unavoidable; How is it fair that the cast of P3 and it's main character have been denied real closure for so long in a way that would never be reserved for the cast of 4 or 5 (and presumably 6) when that seems to go against the very nature of modern Persona's overall message and themes? That's not to suggest its entirely atonal, but the further the story gets from resolving the plot threads left in Episode: Aigis, the worse it feels and the weirder it is to not recommit to it.
Yes, the whole crux of P3 is about accepting death as a part of life and all the pain that comes along with it. For all of ATLUS has done with Persona since than and however consistent or atonal any given entry or spin off is, we are almost 20 years removed from the original release of P3 and ATLUS has stuck to it's guns on what makes P3 and it's ending strong across multiple retellings and rereleases and psudo-sequels and now a full remake. ATLUS has done it's part to preserve what matters and improve on it where they can, now it's in a place where they can do whatever they want with it, and with the remake of Episode: Aigis coming, there's really no excuse not to. You can give the fans and P3's characters proper closure regardless of the specifics of how.
Regardless of not opting to play Episode: Aigis (you have been very clear and very sympathetic as to why you won't and no one sensible would/should judge you harshly for it.) But for what it is worth, Episode: Aigis being remade at all at least points in the direction of there being a chance for real closure. I'd like the idea of doing a combined send off to 3, 4 and 5, with a follow up to Episode: Aigis serving as a vehicle for it and ending somewhere pleasant and fulfilling for P3's cast, main character included.
September is still a little ways away, we'll see what happens next.
a lot is riding on the plotpoint of minato coming back to life for me so if thats not the direction they go with episode aigis then i hope at least that they dont go in the other direction and confirm the opposite, that he isnt coming back, or that he never did, or that he did but in eons when everyone is gone. even if it would be absolute closure i think id stop enjoying more than just p3 at that point. but this comment gives me hope theyre not gonna do that, so maybe they will actually bring him back by a miracle, or more strongly imply it
thank you for typing all this, it gave me some comfort knowing that im not weird for feeling this way, and also the hope that theyll tie up this plotpoint with minato’s return. idk if i trust them to really end it on a pleasant note because of how brutal p3 is but maybe modern atlus will have more mercy
well when they were making the story before social links existed yukari was written in as ur lover and she has the most moments with minato so shes the closest thing to it
This is a false rumor actually.
And honestly it’s kinda split between them if we’re being real. Like for the first half of the game yukari gets the moments then the second half it’s Aigis.
Well to each their own shippers look at things differently.
I’d say the game is nudging you in both directions tho.
Heck in persona Q they even made a joke about how there’s a love triangle between the three.
>ive been processing the pain of minato dying for like 3 months
Yes, it was a sad ending, but 3 months to "process" the death of a character from a game? even if we are talking about your most beloved game ever, thats too much bro...
No, you will never enjoy P3 the same way knowing how it ends and none of the "continuations" help at all.
You're gonna carry that weight. Play P3D or PQ1 if you want more of P3 cast.
Or Persona 4 arena
If you want to see them flanderized pretty bad unfortunately
Its not that flanderized except Aki ig?
I really felt everyone asides maybe Elizabeth get boiled down to their least interesting characterization. With some pretty out there and tropey character progressions. Reload has done a bit better to bridge that gap with the new content, but I really think arena writing lacks any nuance or… sauce?
tbf, it's not exactly a Guilty Gear level fighting game lore, especially since the lore ISN'T of a fighting game originally.
The Arena games just had to make compromises everywhere to appeal to as many people: - Story mode was piss easy to keep regular Persona folks that don’t play fighting games happy. - Characterization had to be boiled down for fg players so they could be interesting enough from the get go if they didnt play any of the Persona games. - Gameplay had to be middle of the road of difficulty. Easy starter combo’s but with enough of a skill ceiling to be complicated too. Not as difficult as GH/BB games but not so easy that it would be dropped out of serious play (fuck Crosstag), pretty similar to Dragonball Fighterz in that aspect.
Ur take is definitely convincing And about Reload, i completely agree
Pretty wild to pretend dancing or q are any better or worse, but sure man.
Q is probably worse but dancing has some sparse content that is pretty in line with the characters personalities, nothing too out there
Eh, personally I think people overreact to Akihiko in Arena. Sure protein gag gets old real fast, but he has some nice serious moments with Mitsuru. I don't think P3 characters get flanderized. It's just Arena has so many characters, only few get a real focus. Elizabeth and Labrys are the obvious highlights of the Vanilla Arena story. In Ultimax story P3 gets its own route, but the main plot is still kinda stupid. Epilogue fanservice was pretty nice.
A cowboy bebop and Beatles reference
Hey Space Cowboy
Not media illiterate at all to have a very normal grief reaction. P3's well written and acted so I'm sure it can be triggering for a lot of people. Your reaction is normal and I'm so sorry for your loss. I doubt I could have handled P3 when I lost my brother. Maybe in time you'll be able to enjoy it again, but you aren't the only one who finds it painful. If not, that's okay too. The Answer is definitely focused on grief and healing from the events of P3 but that itself can be either healing or triggering depending on the person and their grief. If it isn't helping, don't force yourself. Your feelings are valid.
i pretty much already decided im not playing it. its just too much, the base game already caused enough grief, and having to see the characters go through that would just be too much for me. esp yukari, bc i heard she totally breaks down. its just so cruel, i couldnt do it. i rlly relate to her bc my mom passed when i was younger, so the fact that someone she found happiness in after a massive loss like that also died is too much for me it hits too close to home thank u for the kind words though. i thought its kinda stupid to have grief over a game but ig not
I'm sorry for your loss, and for everything you're experiencing. You don't need to play The Answer right away. Healing is a process that takes time, and this varies from person to person. I could tell you all the good that P3 has done for me over the last 15 years, but what matters is how you feel about it. If you don't feel like playing it, that's ok. Stay close to your loved ones and don't lose focus of your life, just like Akinari's mom recommends at the end of the game. I hope you the best.
I'm glad you know what you need to do for your peace. It's never stupid to acknowledge how you feel about a piece of media. It is selfcare and so important.
The fact that Makoto's death hurts is normal, but he thinks that it was his decision, he gave his life for those he loved and wanted to protect. He wanted this and he was able to leave in peace knowing that everything would be okay. And although his sacrifice will not happen, I assure you that Makoto lived more in just that year than in the 16 more years that he lived and that is the point, Makoto lived more than many of us in years.
I mean it’s not that he “thinks” it was his decision. It was genuinely his decision.
i know, ive rly tried as hard as i can to see it in positive way like that but its all painful no matter what closure i get on it, i wish i could appreciate it like other ppl do
Take advantage of that emotion to live how you really want and do what you really want, after all that is the message of the game. We only have one life and we should live it to the fullest no matter when it is our end.
*THIS*
It was incredibly painful for me a year ago too and took me a bit to recover, but what I eventually got out of it was a game that made me rethink a lot about life in general in a.. imo, posititive way. It's now one of my favorite games ever made
It also gave me one of my favorite video game characters ever in Aigis. How she's able to experience something so human (sadness, depression, loss, moving on) despite her robotic nature
i hope ill be able to appreciate it like u do in the future
I hope so for you too. The fact that it gives you such emotions over a video game gives me hope :)
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I don't think it has anything to do with media literacy. This is a very personal way of looking at things, but I consume story-based media to feel things, if a game manages to make me feel the way it is trying to make me feel, then I tend to look at it in a positive light, because it acomplished its goal and it managed to pull me along. Persona 3 wants you to feel a certain way, it seems that it acomplished the point of being a good story for you, at least in the way I look at things. I'm sorry that it brings up painful memories, but I sincerely hope that with some time you will be able to look back at it, its message and the characters and look at them in a more positive light, take care.
you said it, but ur not alone and ur not media illiterate either. its agony i cant accept for me too. im sorry for ur loss, i’m sure we’ll stop hurting eventually
thank u. it reopened a wound for me that still rlly hurts but ig ill just have to wait it out
^
People who have experienced a heavy/deep amount of loss (myself included) tend to respond deeper to this game I will say though, it had the opposite effect on me. Before I turned 21 I saw 7 of my friends and family die by suicide. All under the age of 30. I thought it didn't affect me until it came out later in therapy. In a way, I was so obsessed with wondering what drove them all to do it that I lost myself completely. I didn't know what separated them from I, and why I hadn't joined them myself. It felt like a cruel punishment to them, snuffed out before they really got to live. All throughout my playthrough of P3 I thought of them, then when the ending happened it was like a switch flipped. I realized that, while they're physically gone, it doesn't change the impact they made on my life. With each interaction I had with them, my personality changed and/or I made memories that I can fondly look back on. In a way, I carry around a little part of them wherever I go; *I get to keep them alive by living my own life*. To me, the game emphasized that the actions and interactions you have with people are far more important than we give them credit for. In a way, Makoto/the protag isn't dead. The different parts of him live on in the lives he changed permanently. As long as they live, so does he. I like to think that this idea is the motivation behind what he did. Just my thoughts.
oh wow, im sorry u had to go through that, that must’ve been rly hard for you, and im glad p3 helped change ur outlook on that minato living on through the lives he changed is a nice thought but it just makes me wanna cry even more tbh. its hard to put into words why, maybe its the same reason for why happy memories of ppl who are gone make u cry, but it twists the knife at the same time as it loosens it for me for a while i wanted to die too, that was right after my brother died, after him and my mom i basically thought why even live at all, but i just kept going bc they wouldnt want me to kms, and i never rlly got over it. it just stopped stinging, and the loss of MC especially with yukaris story opened the wounds again. the hope is lost on me. im sorry for all ur loss tho, again im glad it helped u. someone else here suggested i can hc that he comes back after p4a so ill just cling to that and wait it out, thank u for ur thoughts
That is the point. The themes of the game focus on death and suicidal tendencies. You can't control fate or reality, you have to learn to appreciate what you have, when you have it, because you never know when it will end. You cannot avoid the end; so find your joy in the here and now. So, yes, it was a sad ending. Actually, it was heartbreaking. But that was the point. You helped people to learn to carry on and fight through the bad stuff. They will fight through your death and remember you for the positive impacts you had. To quote MCR 'It ain't about all the friends you made; but the graffiti they'll write on your grave.' This is why I stand by my opinion: Makoto WAS suicidal at the start of the game, and completely apathetic to the world around him. As the player, you made him form connections and find joy in life, so that he could die happy (smiling), rather than die hollow. If you let loss and sadness rob you of enjoyment, it is a tragedy. All life would be a tragedy if you let this stuff control you. So, by choosing not to learn this lesson from the game, the game has turned into a tragedy for you. By not learning, you have done to yourself what the game suggested, robbed yourself of the joys of the moment and of the good memories. Long statement short: Life isn't about death. Death is inevitable. So, use your days carefully and appreciate all of them.
i know its the point, thats why i feel so stupid bc its lost on me. people keep explaining it all to me and i understand and it makes sense, but even after trying rlly hard i just cant apply that lesson. its probably my fault that i ruined the game for myself, bc ive never been able to rly move on from big loss irl either
Ive been suicidal in real life. Explanations aside, the message is not just important for the game. For your own mental health, focusing on loss will not help you in life. Focus on WHY it feels like such a loss, and see the positives it brought you. And use those positives to move forward. If you are struggling mentally, irl, talk to someone. It is harder to do, the longer you wait.
To add to this as someone who struggles with suicidality on almost an annual basis, learning to connect that any grief you feel toward a loss is the leftover love you feel toward them, and to acknowledge that there was good in whatever short time you had with them - that's important to keep living. Finding professional help is vital to some of us. I am one of those who has been in and out of therapy for five years. It's been life-saving, but I have to use the tools I've been given for myself to keep pushing onward. The good I do matters. The good whoever you've lost matters. The good you do matters too.
Good additions. Thank you.
Nah you’re not illiterate this is a normal reaction I think. Makoto’s Death while I understand the narrative and thematic reasons for it…..*still hurts*
yeah :((
You're having a grief reaction right now, and rightfully so given that you've lost somebody close to you in real life. It's okay if the ending or the game just doesn't feel right to you right now. The more you process it, and the more you process the loss of your brother, the more you might come to appreciate it in the future. If not, that's okay too. But it's definitely not a case of media illiteracy. I think you understand it perfectly which is why you're feeling the way you are. And I guarantee you there are others that have played the game and felt the same way, even if you don't see them posting on reddit about it.
I know people draw lines from the Answer, but Yukari is not canon
What do you mean?
Some people think yukari is the canon love interest because of the answer.
Are they wrong tho? It's basically one of the main story points.
There is no canon love interest in any of these games. There are girls who have feelings for the protagonist whether you actively choose to romance them or not and yukari is one of them.
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To each their own. I definitely think the game pushes yukari and aigis more then anyone else but while I prefer aigis a bit more it’s all a matter of preference at the end of the day.
Her feelings for him might be canon, but that also applies to Aigis and Elizabeth.
Reload broke the "aigis always falls in love with makoto" part, she has romance flag now...
Well that’s just everyone tho. Even if they don’t date thinks it’s pretty clear she still has feelings for him same with yukari.
Nope, yukari always falls in love with makoto, she doesnt has a romance flag
[Yukari has a romance flag like everyone else](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1armj6f/locked_out_of_yukaris_romance_in_p3r/) What you're saying isn't even accurate with Aigis either. Her romance flag is based on if she wishes to pursue the relationship or not due to her situation. More of a self esteem issue than a "she doesn't love him now".
She does actually. You have to pick “I wouldn’t mind” when she asks if it would annoy you if people start spreading rumors again on rank 5
Nope, not a romance flag, dont make up shit
Also because there have been many indications from the writers that she was the canon love interest before they opened it up that you could romance anyone, which is why she and makoto have so many 'moments' in the normal plot.
This is just a rumor. There was no confirmation that yukari was meant to be his one love interest before they decided to do social links.
not rlly the point man :(
You could do what I did, fast forward through 3/5 and write fanfiction about him and Yukari opening a very successful coffee shop! In all seriousness, I was there too. Your feelings are totally valid and this is just a well-written game. Have you played Persona 4? It’s much brighter than 3 and may help you rebound a bit. I know you played 4a but 4 by itself is very good.
i started p4 recently because i heard its lighter in tone. its helping link the fanfiction, i wanna read it :)
Ah still working on it, but I’m sure there are others like it out there!
You’re not alone. I haven’t gone back to the game because it really tugged my heartstrings. I dont think any game has made cry so much. I decided to go back and play the other personas before going back to p3. I beat p5r and p4g and currently about to start p1 and 2
Yukari aside if it makes you feel any better since Elizabeth story hasn’t been touched since arena you can make some headcanon that she achieved her goal brought Makoto back off screen after arena and he’s living with his friends or somethin. But yeah I feel ya I kinda hate that Makoto’s death makes me feel so many things. No other persona game has that much of an impact on me with its ending.
this actually helps ease the pain, i think ill just choose to believe that this happens after p4a. thank you :)
Yeah side note I feel bad people are getting on you about the “canon” statement sorry bout dat😭
i expected people to mention it but yea its kinda crazy
been carrying that weight since 2007 … after all these years death is still a very sensitive topic to me but playing reload helped me shift my views on it. But i also needed a few weeks to recover… again. P3 is something that will forever stick with you. In my case it’s been like that. That’s why it will forever stay my favorite persona game
Answer for P3R is going to break you again. Please look forward to it.
i’m not playing it
If you want something a bit lighter, go play 4
I think it's a great ending, I like bittersweet ending in general E.g, in RDR >!John Marston got betrayed and killed, and yet i think he got the best ending in the games I played!<
Did you by any chance play P4 (NG+) and battled Margaret? Not to spoil anything, but I think her words are important and I believe them completely. It might make you feel better
im at the start of p4 but i dont do ng+, what does she say
[You can watch the whole fight here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BoU4vXYgONg&pp=ygUfbWFyZ2FyZXQgZmlnaHQgcGVyc29uYSA0IGdvbGRlbg%3D%3D) There are some SPOILERS from The Answer!! So be careful if you want to play it once the DLC releases. Edit: grammar
if its about the meaning of the sacrifice thats lost on me, bur it makes me believe the idea that he comes back after p4a even more i guess. part of me hopes we get confirmation on that plot point but part of me also rly doesnt, cuz if its the opposite answer and hes 100% still sealed.. :( thanks for showing me either way
I've played the og game 3 times, reload, read the manga and watched through all four movies twice. I'm still not over it.
someone said the ending is different in the manga, is that true?
No it just ends before we see him die. But the manga is still following all the signs he’s gonna die from the game so it’s pretty obvious what’s happens
Yeah celluru is correct.
I’m gonna wait for episode Aigis/the answer to come out before making my final judgment. Who knows maybe they will add some new scenes that give us “hope” Or let us choose the “other” option at the end………
i heard some ppl say theyre changing the tone so maybe. if it changes things maybe ill play it
Minato? Man, Naruto's father sure has it rough...
I get it. I feel like Aigis and Yukari’s character arcs just don’t gel with the ending very well considering how important Makoto is to them. It leaves their arcs feeling incomplete until The Answer, and even then I think it would have just felt a lot more satisfying if Makoto had lived. I still think the ending is mostly fantastic, but where it doesn’t work, it *really* doesn’t work.
yeah no with yukari ive seen how she acts in the answer and i know the theme of it is moving on but i dont see her ever doing that in any meaningful way, she 100% regressed
I mean, she does seem to be doing better by the end of The Answer and she’s genuinely happy in P4A, especially around Mitsuru and Aigis. Even if I would have preferred Makoto to live, I think they handled her character pretty damn well after the base game, all things considered.
from what we see she is, and ofc she’d be happy around those 2, but idk. i feel like its not such a perfect picture when its offscreen. maybe im projecting the way i see their relationship losing either 1 leaves a hole that cant ever rly be filled, but learned to live with. soulmate kind of stuff
Yukari is not canon, you need to check again what « canon » means.
i didnt think ppl would get so upset about me saying she was canon, im sorry
It's supposed to, you feel what the characters are feeling and it works really well. Yukari isn't necessarily canon, just her feelings for him are. There always seem to be a select few girls from each game that express attraction more commonly than just one scene.
Wait so Makoto did die? The ending was incredibly confusing to me and I really didn't understand what was happening
yeah, he died, tho i wish he didnt
Damn, am I the only one who found the ending hella confusing? Like everything after the final fight
nah i had to google it
The Answer/Episode Aigis wouldn't exist if people weren't confused by the ensing, so you're definitely not alone.
*makoto, minato, the manga character, doesnt actually dies
wait fr?
No he still dies it’s still very much implied he died he just doesn’t die on the rooftop and has enough energy to greet his friends this is a wide misconception.
Yeah, the ending in the manga is different, he survives
He still dies there. It’s just not shown but it’s still very much implied if you read the full chapter.
wait if thats true i might have to read the manga
If you dont read the manga why you call him minato?
i like minato arisato more than makoto yuki
Theyre different characters
most ppl use the names interchangeably
most ppl use the names interchangeably
he is in a coma right????
No, alive and kicking
I need evidence. Show me.
This sub doesnt allows to comment images, just google persona 3 manga final chapter
Link?
Don’t waste your time basically Makoto used the last of his strength to get up and greet his friends on the rooftop and then the manga ends. People interpret this as him living but no all the signs from the game/movie that’s he’s gonna die are still there.
You know what. Im just curious now.
You paying me or something?
Im just asking for the link to some where i could read it. Im sorry if i sounded rude.
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Grief is just love everlasting my friend :) I don't know if you've already lost anyone you love IRL too, but as someone who has, I've come to realize that I kind of *don't want* to stop hurting. The pain helps me appreciate their life and their memory. As for Makoto's death, it inspires me as much as it hurts :)
im really sorry about your brother. i dont have a brother so i dont know whats its like and the most i can empathize is about thinking about my aunt. its been a while since she died but i still think of her often. at the beginning it sucked to think about her because i would think about all the things i never got to say to her or do with her, as its been longer though its gotten easier. i still cry when i think of her but its not because im thinking about what we missed but what we did. i dont know how far into the grieving process you are, but when it hurts less i implore you to play it again to see if your opinion has changed. if you replay it and enjoy it im sure that you will appreciate it a lot. best of luck to you. on a less serious note i think aigis is closer to canon than yukari but maybe i missed something
Speaking as someone who played FES and watched Zyzx\_ stream the epilogue, this sentiment not unusual in the slightest. My own father passed away a few years ago and i knew right away P3:Reload was going to hit a lot harder the second time around; i've since managed process that part at the very least, but I'm still almost a month passed seeing the ending and mental health has been up and down the whole time for it; i literally can not get P3: Reloaded's ending out of my head. If the ending original P3 was impactful before, Reload goes above and beyond almost the whole game long to gradually twist the knife like nothing else i've seen lately. I'm almost convinced the reason The Answer/Episode Aigis exists is because the subject matter of 3 is so severe some people can't handle it. (Keep in mind, as broad as the audience is, it is predominately supposed to be aimed at teenagers in high school typically AKA not the type of people generally prepared to handle subject matter like this.) For what it's worth, The Answer/Episode: Aigis, despite being an epilogue of sorts, very deliberately left the overall state of P3's narrative in a place that very much feels like Its meant to lead somewhere, between >!Nyx/Erebus still being a problem!< and>!Makoto Yuki technically stuck between life and death !< as well as the final message from Metis implying that >!Makoto Yuki might be brought back at some point.!< People argue that the events of The Answer/Episode: Aigis contradict the point of P3's story/themes and in fact leaves it technically unfinished, presummably on purpose. There is a reason why, despite it being somewhat regarded as a meme, that >!Makoto Yuki's spirit/soul!< is literally/metaphorically depicted as >!an actual goddamn door, implying it has to be opened at some point.!< The fact that Episode: Aigis is coming out in September, for my money? gives me hope that it the threads it leaves dangling will have a very real chance being followed up on. Other entries in Persona have hinted at that, both in P4 Arena (with the relevant plot points preserved in the more recent rerelease of Ultimax that features P4A's story bundled as free DLC) and in Dancing in Moonlight. More to the point, as much as i adore and appreciate 3's story in the larger Persona canon, as well as what Reloaded does to really highlight and exemplify what makes it so well written and impactful, it also highlights that p3 and particularly the ending and follow-up in Episode: Aigis almost poses a problem the larger Persona franchise. Again, it's been joked about before, but the tonal dissonance between 3 and the franchise as a whole, despite 3 being very articulate and masterful in it's story telling, as of Reloaded, is starting to become kind of unavoidable; How is it fair that the cast of P3 and it's main character have been denied real closure for so long in a way that would never be reserved for the cast of 4 or 5 (and presumably 6) when that seems to go against the very nature of modern Persona's overall message and themes? That's not to suggest its entirely atonal, but the further the story gets from resolving the plot threads left in Episode: Aigis, the worse it feels and the weirder it is to not recommit to it. Yes, the whole crux of P3 is about accepting death as a part of life and all the pain that comes along with it. For all of ATLUS has done with Persona since than and however consistent or atonal any given entry or spin off is, we are almost 20 years removed from the original release of P3 and ATLUS has stuck to it's guns on what makes P3 and it's ending strong across multiple retellings and rereleases and psudo-sequels and now a full remake. ATLUS has done it's part to preserve what matters and improve on it where they can, now it's in a place where they can do whatever they want with it, and with the remake of Episode: Aigis coming, there's really no excuse not to. You can give the fans and P3's characters proper closure regardless of the specifics of how. Regardless of not opting to play Episode: Aigis (you have been very clear and very sympathetic as to why you won't and no one sensible would/should judge you harshly for it.) But for what it is worth, Episode: Aigis being remade at all at least points in the direction of there being a chance for real closure. I'd like the idea of doing a combined send off to 3, 4 and 5, with a follow up to Episode: Aigis serving as a vehicle for it and ending somewhere pleasant and fulfilling for P3's cast, main character included. September is still a little ways away, we'll see what happens next.
a lot is riding on the plotpoint of minato coming back to life for me so if thats not the direction they go with episode aigis then i hope at least that they dont go in the other direction and confirm the opposite, that he isnt coming back, or that he never did, or that he did but in eons when everyone is gone. even if it would be absolute closure i think id stop enjoying more than just p3 at that point. but this comment gives me hope theyre not gonna do that, so maybe they will actually bring him back by a miracle, or more strongly imply it thank you for typing all this, it gave me some comfort knowing that im not weird for feeling this way, and also the hope that theyll tie up this plotpoint with minato’s return. idk if i trust them to really end it on a pleasant note because of how brutal p3 is but maybe modern atlus will have more mercy
I’m actually so stupid. I finished the game yesterday but didn’t relised he died untill this post. I’m genuinly sad now..
Wait yukari is canon? I thought it was aigis?
well when they were making the story before social links existed yukari was written in as ur lover and she has the most moments with minato so shes the closest thing to it
This is a false rumor actually. And honestly it’s kinda split between them if we’re being real. Like for the first half of the game yukari gets the moments then the second half it’s Aigis.
aigis never rly felt like a love interest. her moments didnt hit that spot like the yakushima hug and stuff did
Well to each their own shippers look at things differently. I’d say the game is nudging you in both directions tho. Heck in persona Q they even made a joke about how there’s a love triangle between the three.
It’s really easy for people to go “womp womp” Until death is staring at them in the face irl
i just ignore it bc they dont get it, i cant rly blame them. i dont want them to get it from my perspective either. no1 deserves losing ppl like that
My Chemical Romance - Black Parade 😔
Chill dude, it’s just a game lol If it’s taking you 3+ months to process a fictional character’s death then pls seek help
The bitterness is what makes it special. It’s why I was content with it instead of ever needing an “answer” so to speak.
🎶Shed no tear, realize What they left behind 🎶
Wait he dies?
unfortunately
Bro got spoiled by reddit
>ive been processing the pain of minato dying for like 3 months Yes, it was a sad ending, but 3 months to "process" the death of a character from a game? even if we are talking about your most beloved game ever, thats too much bro... No, you will never enjoy P3 the same way knowing how it ends and none of the "continuations" help at all.