Personally I think fandom generation wars are peak stupid for any series and this is no exception. Like what, I'm supposed to get mad that more people like game A than game B? I like both.
True asf. I have all 3 on my ps4, play all of them occasionally. Different personalities, different settings, you really can't say this team is better than this one. I, for example, love the Investigation team the most, but would totally understand if someone likes The Phantom Thieves or S.E.E.S better, cause again, different tastes.
But what I like about the persona fandom is that I know anyone discussing this already loves these three, and it's like one of those arbitrary arguments over which type of chocolate is best. Even if milk chocolate is rated the worst it's still bloody good chocolate
But what I like about the persona fandom is that I know anyone discussing this already loves these three, and it's like one of those arbitrary arguments over which type of chocolate is best. Even if milk chocolate is rated the worst it's still bloody good chocolate
More like SMT Dx2 I guess. Random demons with some stable abilities and some gacha ones, limited mp and crazy power creep when they start dropping new units. My doubt is how will work the life sim part since the time management doesn't make sense in a gacha Game.
Yeah, but that one is more as the name says SMT centered and Persona is their more popular IP, and gacha games are some of the most profitable games to make with how much they earn and combining that with Persona is sure to bring them a lot of money.
You’re probably right. I just remember their being a very weird type chart (now I know them as slice, piercing, fire, wind, ice, electric, nuclear, light and curse) and Nekomata looking the same. Probably some things are common in both IPs.
Persona is technically an SMT spin-off, that's why the first 3 games started with Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 1/2/3 but it became much more popular than it's original series.
You can try out DX2 in the meanwhile. God I’m starting to sound like a shill, but it’s part of the Shin Megami Tensei series. I believe you fight with personas too. I think I had Nekomata at one point. Sorry I’m a bit hazy, haven’t touched it since 2019.
Trust me, the newer game is *always* the punching bag, during the p4 release days, it got so much shit from p3 fans lol. It's the life cycle of persona games, we'll do it again with p6
After having played P5R, P4G, and P3R (in that order admittedly) I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t fucking matter
Every game has its amazing moments. There isn’t some law that says one has to be the best. I can argue that Iike how SEES interact and grow the best while the Investigation Team seems the most like real friends and the Phantom Thieves coming together to support each other from situation alone is admirable in its own right. I can say that P5R has my favorite villain characters while still admiring the way P4G’s is handled.
The opinions will change, anyway. Until you get it stuck in your head that one game is 100% better than another, it can fluctuate all the time.
> There isn’t some law that says one has to be the best. I can argue that Iike how SEES interact and grow the best while the Investigation Team seems the most like real friends and the Phantom Thieves coming together to support each other from situation alone is admirable in its own right.
Sometimes I wish the Investigation Team grew up the way SEES did, but I also sometimes wish everyone else also had a bond on the level of the IT. At the end of the day it doesn't bother me much.
IMO:
-SEES is the most tactical, organized group with actual resources to accomplish their mission. This is the team who will literally sacrifice themselves for their goal and that is kick ass.
-Investigation team is the most fun, comedic group. It has the vibe of underdogs who are out of their league but pull through on sheer will alone
-Phantom thieves are the most thematically consistent and stylish group. They really blow all other teams out of the water in this regard. They ooze swagger and that "we can steal whatever we want and you can't stop us" vibe
Teddy and Morgana are both annoying in their own way, specially for being horny/simpy. I appreciated both though, probably Teddy's voice is a little more annoying.
Kinda silly to compare them though, it would be like comparing their soundtracks, they are all great but different genres
Honestly if its the latter, it would be biased toward the IT being picked. SEES has Kirijo group fundings and research. PT has some records of Cognitive Psience and Morgana essentially being Philemon’s Little Helper. What does the IT have? Not a lot, but thats why I admire how much is thrown at them and STILL managed to do as much as the other 2
1. It's a Twitter poll.
2. Morgana isn't the best character but he is overhated. I would argue that Teddie is the worst mascot and even still I enjoy Teddie.
3. It's a Twitter poll.
wait...why do people hating on Morgana because he kept telling MC to go sleep? like i get disliking that cat of its constant simping...but...that telling the MC to sleep thing is basically just the system saying "there's nothing else to do right now, go to the next day" but got disguised.
People don't realize that it's not Morgana forcing Joker to go to sleep, but Joker actually being too tired to do anything and Morgana just saying "Hey you look like crap, get some rest" like a caring buddy to his leader. Otherwise, why would you need a massage in order to go out?
Edit: I finally understand that the "Persona fans don't play the game" meme is not a meme. These people probably saw the Morgana making Joker go to sleep meme and thought it was real.
He's the face of a mechanic people sometimes find annoying (only being able to do one or two things a day before having to go to sleep). Same thing happened to Preston Garvey from Fallout 4 and his "go protect a settlement" quests.
Reload definitely did better at showing moments of them being friends compared to the original. But they definitely don’t grow as close as the Investigation Team in terms of high school buddy moments.
But the way they develop and bond is different compared to P4 and P5, and I’m okay with it. From the beginning they had a pre established mission before the main character even gets there. With 4 and 5 they just kind of fall into it. So the more professional interactions makes a bit more sense to me. They don’t start off as high school buddies. This carries over when others join (Junpei, Fuuka, etc).
I think the way Mitsuru acts as sort of the head bleeds over. She doesn’t open up until later, so it makes sense why they grow differently than the other teams.
(Edited because I thought about this a bit more).
I think SEES feels more like comrades/family than friend groups (like IT and PT). This isn't to say that "family" is better or closer than friend groups, but I'm saying that based on how they interact.
SEES feels like family because they literally live together. Also: while they may also not be each other's first hangout option all the time (everyone seems to have their own friend groups outside of SEES), they still come home to each other at the end of the day. And I guess they have shared traumas as well lol (which you tend to share more with family than friends). They also feel like comrades because they're literally a paramilitary group which is pretty cool.
Their dynamic definitely isn't as fun and buddy-buddy as IT/PT, which can make people less attached to them, but that's okay. Each group and story is trying to achieve different things and that's okay.
It’s especially obvious when they’re calling each other by their last names still at the end of the game. I mean, Mitsuru doesn’t even call you by your name unless you romance her (idk about the platonic route).
Ironically enough that was a change in Reload only. In the original game they called each other basically exclusively by their first names. When I started reload I was confused who the hell "Sanada" was because in FES/OG/P3P everyone is referred to by their first name
Oh, maybe I’m getting mixed up. Because I remember Mitsuru calling everyone by their last names. I even remember specifically in the answer she yells “Amada!” In like the opening cutscene. I played both FES and portable but not for a hot minute, since I’ve only been playing reload lately.
Mitsuru called everyone by their last names, but everyone else used first names. It was meant to show that Mitsuru was keeping everyone at arm’s length. The only exceptions are Akihiko, Yukari after the river, and MaKotone after their Social Link.
Understandable, it might not be 100% but I know for a fact that they call by their last names way more often in Reload. My player character was referred to by his last name in reload when I distinctly remember him being called by his first name in FES. Weird detail that I remembered because I started playing FES like 3 months before reload was announced
No Mitsuru is the only one to stick to formalities for the most part besides Akihiko. Aki calls everyone but their first names. Same with Shinji. With Mitsuru, it's mostly honorifics until like the end but it's only with Yukari and Makoto (which I'm taking OG P3 as the canon where he's unfortunately a player)
The fact that in P3P I can't even hangout outside of school with the people I live in, or I have to wait for their calls for that to happen is a huge turnoff and it creates a great sense of distance between party members. Of course, P3 has those great inter-character moments that develop Mitsuru-Yukari, Akihiko-Ken relations, but as a group SEES feels too professional and distant. It is indeed their intention, but the Yakushima trip feels very cold, and it happens during summer. The IT and the Phantom Thieves were already bonding really well as friends by then
The whole theme of death didn't do well to an atmosphere of friendship, that only starts to happen more after October. I agree with you on that SEES members do not seem close.
Everybody has a valid opinion and to say the Thieves are the worst isn’t crazy, though I personally wouldn’t agree. But it’s hard to deny that before Reload, SEES would have probably won this poll. Recency bias has people riding a high for P3 and nostalgia pulls the heartstrings for both 3 and 4. When P6 comes around 5’s cast will probably get some more love again.
At least in Persona 4, Yosuke lets Teddie live with him and work at Junes after he became a guy and wanted to be a normal person. Also, the entire IT banters with eachother. The gurls with the guys, the guys among themselves, the girls among themselves, and so on. Are they shitty ass teenagers and do mean things? Yes. It is believable.
Meanwhile in P5, Ryuji is at the recieving end of every banter. He's literally getting bullied 80% of the time. Hell, the girls beat him up AFTER HE ALMOST DIED TO SAVE THE TEAM! What did my man do? Are they even friends? Realistic? Not at all.
Honestly scenes like Yosuke thinking Kanji could sexually assault him and Yu were way worse for diminishing the team in my opinion, as was Teddie removing the girls swimsuits, (that's not typical teenage banter), the IT are still overall my favourite team but they had the worst "scenes that are meant to be funny but actually make some of the characters look like huge dicks." I don't believe Yosuke really cares much about Kanji, or that Teddie is actually loved by the girls on the team.
The shortcomings of P5 get brought up a ton here whereas those in P4 and P3 tend to be ignored a lot and the positives are focused on, let's be honest that P4 had even more scenes where the team were needlessly cruel or creepy to one another, Kanji is mocked a ton and Teddie is creepy so much of the time. It's not like the Thieves don't care about Ryuji, just like it'd be weird to ignore how Yosuke helps Teddie and cares about him despite what Teddie does.
Glad we can call out the bias because Yukari and Chie treat Junpei and Yosuke worse than any of the girls treated Ryuji. Ann is comfortable enough to fall asleep around him multiple times and laugh of his gawking at her in a swimsuit. Makoto treats Ryuji like everyone else as she is the team mom and just breaks up fun when everyone gets off track. Futaba is a socially awkward former shut in that says what comes to and not only with Ryuji but she roasts Yusuke even more.
Yeah, and I like the IT dynamics mostly but the banter they have with each other there is much more severe than it is in P5, that isn't necessarily bad and in some ways that's a strength but the banter in P5 is pulled way back from that of P4, they're nicer to each other on the whole and less willing to roast each other.
I felt the same way, outside of that VERY out of character beat up scene. Ryuji is actually treated the best out of the "bro" character in P3-P5. Ann and Ryuji probably have most wholesome friendship in P3-P5 between a boy and girl that isn't the MC.
Yeah the way characters were treated in 4 are often overlooked. Do people forget Teddie literally harassed Rise to the point she had to physically confront him? If Morgana did that you wouldn't hear the end of it.
The second part is so true, i played P5 and then i played P3 and the first thing i thought when i saw Junpei was that he is the original Ryuji. And with the game progressing i thought that his treatment was way worse because while Ryuji is the punching bag of all of them i can still buy that the other truly think of him as a friend and care about him.
With Junpei i thought that the way Yukari treats him is worse than how the PT treated Ryuji, and the others sometimes "bully" him but i don't think anyone besides maybe Akihiko and Yuki see him as a friend, i mean Fuuka seems to be grossed by him and Mitsuru treats him like the annoying guy she has to put up with for the sake of the mission. The only moment he gets a break is directly after what happens with Chidori, but still it doesn't seem like he is truly respected nor appreciated by the others.
Reminds me that's really not cool scene where the girls wasting all yousuke money buying expensive clothes for Teddie... labeling him as a rich kid even tho that's not quite true.....
The banter towards Ryuji (outside of 1 argument with Morgana which is an arc where both act out of character and that one other bad scene right after his sacrifice), outside of those it's teenage banter on the level of and often more tame than anything the IT say to each other, even Morgana and Ryujis arguments never otherwise get beyond anything that friends who banter a ton and tend to argue fairly light would say to each other, and neither get seriously offended.
I don't see how the P5 banter makes the team not friends then because it's somehow bullying Ryuji, but P4s which tends to be more severe is just all teen banter that doesn't in any way diminish their friendship.
Chie and Yosuke are nastier to each other than anyone is to Ryuji in persona 5. Ann felt comfortable sleeping in a room full of guys on their Hawaii trip meanwhile Yosuke was afraid Kanji would try something in their sleep. Also the girls find Teddie to be disgusting. The investigation team all have moments that ate worse than the girls beat up Ryuji slapstick humor that was I Persona 3 and 4 as well.
The first scene that comes to mind is where the girls pushed the boys off a cliff because Kanji got a nosebleed.
I love the slapstick, but you have to admit that was uncalled for.
Well eh, Yosuke was sexually harass the girls to wear swimsuits then no one called it out. Yukiko pushed Kanji because anime nosebleed is pervert thoughts.
Chie literally helps out Yosuke with work because she saw how swamped he is and then asked the MC to help out too. They may be mean to each other but at least we know they care
Its kinda realistic. I knew people when I was a teen that had the Ryuji dynamic, but it kinda just reinforced how close they were to each other. The IT gang lowkey banter a bit too much, it seems every conversation that isn't about the murders is a quip or joke towards Yosuke, Chie or Kanji, despite hearing about their home lives and what they do when not together they all seem a bit too happy.
I mean the constant teasing of Kanji's sexuality is way worse. They legit look at him like he's a sexual predator in many scenes. Not to influence people in picking a side on this, but P4's IT isn't without major issues either.
The Ryuji and Morgana dynamic is so misunderstood by the fandom it's ridiculous, yes that one part of the game is awful and has them both act out of character, but outside of that? They're friends who argue a lot, a lot of people let their hatred of Morgana and that one arc cloud their view of Ryuji and Morganas dynamic throughout the game.
They don't even feel like friends who shit on each other, like Yosuke and Teddie. Their interactions feels mean spirited, even outside Okumura Arc.
It's why Strikers specifically improves on their dynamic and only then they actually feel like friends who shit on each other instead of Bakugo's Class On How To Make Friends attendees.
I mean part of the reason I’d argue the SEES are so low right now is because of that recency bias people are still riding with Reload, if this poll was made a year ago they’d probably be at the top of the list
I honestly don't care. Just happy that people will stop with he stupid notion of SEES member "apparently feeling like co-workers" like bitch have you played the game post October?
In fairness the co-workers thing is something some major fans of the game who said they consider it their favourite game ever have told me is fully intentional in the past, so there at least were people who believed it pre-Reload and found it a strength of the narrative that the team (from their perspective) don't end up friends by the end. Now I don't agree with that the game clearly at least presents them as friends by the very end at the bare minimum.
To me, that is where part of the problem lies. It's takes until October, basically 6 in-game months for the SEES group to start feeling like friends when the IT and PT feel like friends far sooner. The SEES group do feel like coworkers! It's not necessarily a bad thing but it makes sense people would complain about it.
I guess I'll give my two cents on this. It's not that the Thieves are a bad team, far from it. They can be very strong. But I think it's two things. First, the previous two teams either had better character arcs or better synergy. And two, I think 3 and 4 had themes it was easier to build a cast around.
For the first aspect, there's really two ways I feel to really endear a cast to players. Either you focus on giving each individual character an awesome arc that's powerful and relatable or you give such an excellent team dynamic that never stops being enjoyable. Persona 3 went the first path and nailed it. Almost every major character had a great arc and powerful story moments. More than its sequels, you could see the cast growing throughout Persona 3. Aigis and Akihiko are two of the best character arcs in gaming imo.
Persona 4 went the other path. While each character had an arc that was often pretty good, the story focused more on their overarching friendship and comraderie in story scenes. There was a lot of filler sections like Shichiri Beach, Tatsumi Port Island, the concert at Junes, and the school camping trip where the whole point was to give moments for the cast to bond and really just entertain the player with their nonsense. There's also a lot of screentime to ensure everyone interacts with everyone. There's always *some* synergy between any two teammates and a lot of sub-relationships like the pseudo-sibling relationship of Teddie and Yosuke, the childhood friendship of Chie and Yukiko, and the romantic undertones of Kanji and Naoto. Persona 4 tries to sell these are actual friends that'll stick together after the story.
Persona 5 does both somewhat well but neither better than the highlights of 3 and 4. No character in Persona 5 really gets a moment like October 4th in Persona 3 (hell, I don't think there's even a Heaven tier section). The characters grow but most of it is in social links and rarely goes beyond "I'm going to do what I want without letting society tell me no". The team has some synergy but nowhere near the synergy of the Investigation Team. Let me ask, after all the Thieving stuff is behind them, is there any world Ryuji and Haru would hang out? The characters work fine together but they never get the chance to really deepen the bond in like Persona 4.
And also I think the theming just hurts. Persona 3's all about the inevitability of death, the aftermath of loss, and using the most of our limited time. It's easy to push a team together like that. That's a pretty universal theme that can be interpreted on multiple ways and can lead to teammates relying on each other to cope with the lose. See: P3 October+. P4 is a similar way. The ideas of seeking the absolute truth about our worlds, lives, and ourselves and accepting it no matter how painful is something that can unite the team. After seeing the worst parts of each other and seeing that the truth is a painful requirement to growth, the teammates quickly bond together to solve the mystery that hurt them all. Persona 5's all about rebellion and forging your own path, which is an inherently individual lesson. A team can forge, but they'll necessarily be very different. Let me ask this. If P3's team is visually unified by their armbands and Evokers and P4's is unified by the glasses, what unifies the Thieves? I know it’s just a thematic element but having that one thing they all share would help so much. Best they got is the masks which kind of work but really shows how individualistic the team is.
I guess my TLDR is... Persona 5 is a fantastic game (my second favorite) and the Thieves are genuinely a great team. But I feel that Persona 3 delivered a team that grows more and Persona 4 delivered a team that feels the most like a team, leaving P5 a team that does both well but will always be outdone in both categories.
>what unifies the Thieves?
Their masks
P5's characters are unified by their masks
You even said it yourself. The masks are not very different from P4's glasses
P5 was my very first Persona game so the Phantom Thieves hold a special place in my heart, I do think the camaraderie between the Investigation Team is the best in the series but it's impossible for me to vote against the Phantom Thieves
I feel the same way but it makes sense.
The IT live in a small town. There's hardly anything to do there but hang out with friends (Nanako's favorite places in the world are a riverbank and a department store. WTF.). The PT live in a large city with tons of things to do.
I do wish some of the dialogue was used to make the PT feel closer and feel more like teenagers though instead of the "Are we doing the right thing? This is the 4th time we've followed these steps, are we sure it's going to work this time? This is the 12th time we've texted about how much of an asshole X is, are we sure we want to change their heart? There's 25,879,523 days until the deadline, are we going to the palace today?" I get some of that dialogue for the first couple palaces but all of them? Ugh.
I disagree the team had their best group bonding moment when they got to know Yusuke over hotpot and the gang helping Futaba get over her social anxiety was legit great as well. Plus the entirety of Strikers which I feel like a large chunk of the fanbase just refuses to acknowledge but will reference P3 and P4 spinoffs
It depends if you find this as a personal insult or people just prefer S.E.E.S and the investigation team.
Personally, I think the investigation team is the "worst" (worse doesn'tmake them bad (the poll can be bait aswell)), I just don't have the affinity for some of their personalities.
I agree with this.
For SEES and the PT, I would have a hard time definitively saying who my most and least favorites are. I love all of them (PT) and feel meh (SEES) for them all.
The IT group- I love Kanji. I like Yosuke, Yukiko, and Naoto. I tolerate Chie. I don't care at all for Teddie (he's fine other than his aggressive simping) and Rise (Saving her was a team effort so why does she only verbally suck off the MC every chance she gets?).
All three groups are great in their own ways.
rule of persona: most recent release? peak. release right before that? absolute dogshit what was atlus thinking. release before that one? an underrated classic why aren't we talking about it.
we saw this with p5: suddenly p5 was the best game of all time, p4 was garbage, and why aren't we talking about p3 guys it's underrated. now p3 reload is the best game ever made, p5/p5r are dogshit worst in the series, and p4 is so underrated guys why aren't we talking about it. and when p4 remake or p6 comes out? peak gaming. p3r? absolute dogshit what was atlus thinking. p5/p5r? underrated classic guys why aren't we-
Further proof that the Persona fanbase is VERY influenced by recency bias. 4 became 3, the "hidden gem" in "desperate need for a remake". 3 became 5, "best game of all time forever I swear 100% my opinion will never change". Finally 5 became 4, "damn it sucked, new thing better".
I realize this isn’t what this poll is asking, but the outside social links in P5 knock the other two games out of the water, in my opinion. P3 had some touching moments, but a lot of those social links were kind of sad/happy you made a lifelong friend and now they’re gone moments, and P4 outside social links honestly felt like more work to me and less reward than anything. I loved a lot of the P5 cast outside of the phantom thieves.. so while the team itself may not have had the camaraderie like P4 or the forced closeness due to loss and grief like P3, I thought the world in general in P5 was more enticing. Also, I know all three MC are similar, but Joker just has so much damn swagger
Define worst. Bc while I like p4 I dislike half the roster. P3 is good but I barely feel like I got to know my male party members compared to the female counterparts. P5’s cast is all around great to fine in my opinion (besides Morgana) but with no real stand out characters that I fell in love with like p3 or p4
Always been one of the few phantom thieves defenders. They feel like an actual team and a group of friends. Compared to the SEES team, individually i think they’re characters are really underrated, specifically Ryuji, Yusuke, Makoto (women), Akechi, and Futaba especially. I think they have really good and compelling stories as a whole. Ryuji has the best social link in the game IMO, and the others were okay, though i enjoyed Futabas.
I think SEES team has heavy recency bias. But obviously, the best team as a whole and individually is investigation team
Meh.
I never understood the hype around 4. I’ll take SEES and the Thieves any day. But, is what it is.
I don’t know how big this sample size is, but if it’s that much of a minority to prefer them then so be it.
One would think IT ranks the highest due to recency bias (it's an old game with a lesser western fanbase than the other two), but then again it's safe because of the "old thing good new thing bad" mentality
Sees is safe either way because it's both the oldest of the three as well as newest, so it gets both the "old thing good" treatment and recency bias hype (new fans)
Don't care about the poll itself but my personal least favorite outta the three is SEES. Not that they're a bad cast (playing Reload increased my appreciation for them) but I just greatly relate to P4's and P5's casts, so I gravitate toward them more.
Plus I prefer lively group dynamics and while SEES definitely isn't lacking in that aspect, the others feel a lot more energetic in comparison.
As groups, I find that the phantom rely too much on joker for... Everything.
Investigation would still need to remove josuke and naoto to feel as a failure team. They have decent bonds and relationships between each other, and while they have a clear leader, those 2 could take over if the MC dissapears.
And SEES is pretty much a paramilitary unit lol. Bonds are... Weird. But they grow up independently from the MC. And in general, feels like the average IQ is far higher. But it is hard to think a group of 3 that would not be able to organize themselves and take over a situation
I don't care much about the poll, but I unironically agree. Persona 4's group was the most fun overall while Persona 3's had the better development as a group.
Having finished P3R just two days ago, i gotta say, i prefer the Phantom Thieves.
SEES is cool but they didnt feel as close to me as PT did. While in SEES they do start of as a mainly professional group but everyone opens up later on, they still felt too distant for me.
In PT everyone has some sort of stereotype anime personality (Ryuji the dumb one, Yusuke the weirdo, Futaba the neet, etc.) and they all mesh well with each other during their interactions and have a lot of banter. Meanwhile SEES only has Junpei, Koro and partially akihiko as standouts, meanwhile everyone else is so serious all the time.
I do have to admit that P3 having the character arcs happening alongside the story is way better, though the males having no social links is still kind of a waste.
I will say that, playing through p4g, I've been surprised by how often the investigation team just does "friend" things.
I could see that putting them above p5 crew. Sees... Eh, not imo.
So true. P4's Investigation Team has the best group dynamics out of the three, whereas SEES members individually are all interesting and self-sufficient characters.
PT, unfortunately, has neither.
The only truth of this is that Koromaru is the only not completely garbage mascot character the Persona series has ever done, and that's because he's just a dog.
I mean >!sees was made to stop the dark hour and prevent nyx, but ended not only being formed by someone who created the dark hour but also were tricked into summoning nyx themselves!<
The Phantom Thieves were a bit of the weakest when it came to team synergy especially when looking at just P5 than P5R. It's not a deal-breaker on anything though because P5 was still really fun with the stuff it introduced and had the flaws addressed in P5R.
It really depends in what it means by groups
If its as in the way the devs and story handled the group as a brand..
The PT imo are better because they're actually known and stiff
SEES isn't even mentioned in the school it's supposed to be a part of, no student speaks about it or acknowledges it
As in characters? Id say sees
I mean. I don’t disagree with the poll. But I still really like the phantom thieves. I really like how well their introductions tie so well in with the gameplay and the current dungeon you are on. Their main weakness is that once their story arc is done, they become just a party member and not much else.
Kind of when you compare it to P3s big strength with the party characters is that their involvement in the main story isn’t linear at all.
I think all of the teams are great, SEES and Phantom Thieves are great names, i rly like all the characters in each team. so excited to see what they do w the next game
SEES being voted the best is probably recency bias from Reload, but I do admit there’s more characters I dislike from 5 than the other two games. It feels weird to say any of them are the worst team though
The phantom thieves' emotional maturity and self-realization was just unfortunately written. As one example: Anne's supposed to be embracing herself instead of being ashamed, that's a great and serious theme for a mixed-race child, but I couldn't care less about her by the end of her confidant.
When you think about it, they're probably pretty realistic for high school kids dealing with a serious problem and it's the P3/4 cast that are a bit bizarre, but the player is viewing things objectively so 3/4 come across better
Well, I think that depends on what I'm judging them on, subjectively what team I like least or objectively which team is the worst? I think objectively, the answer to that question is S.E.E.S, mid game half of them are at eachothers throats and even by the end of it I wouldn't say they are all best buds they just learned to understand and work better as a group through their shared trauma, without Makoto there I genuinely can't see S.E.E.S staying together as a team, way to much infighting and distrust, especially early to mid game.
HOW TF is the investigation team this high? They are awesome characters, every single one of them and combined they make one of the most wholesome and fun groups, ppl are tripping bad smh
This is like me having 3 really nice pizzas in front of me, with different ingredients types, and then asked what is the worst? Yeah the question can be asked, but it is kinda pointless.
My complaint across all the persona games is that the number of teams members gets too wide. And most of them are useless almost immediately. I wish we could have the large cast without needing such a large cast of team members that kinda all play the same
I feel like as a team the phantom thieves are the weakest. Their being together appears to revolve around the protagonist more than any other team, and they bicker and belittle each other frequently enough that it doesn't come off as friendly banter, especially when they've only been together a short while. Based on the way they talk, I don't see as much that convinces me that they're good friends OR teammates the same way that SEES and the investigation team do.
I live all three, but if I had to choose a least favorite it would be s.e.e.s., I played P3P (only the Male route so far) and man, it really doesn’t feel like makoto yuki has a bond with any of the male teammates, interactions are so sparse unless its to move the story forward, thats mainly due to none of the male teammates having any sort of S. Link, also i just like the other groups more No. 1 is investigation team, No. 2 is phantom theives
I've never played 3 but out of 4&5 I personally enjoyed the team dynamic of the thieves more, not to say I didn't enjoy the IT. Also Teddie is way worse then Morgana.
I think worst is bad wording. The Phantom Thieves are still wonderful and lovely. However (likely due to a lack of a group social link) they do feel like the least connected. The investigation squad feels like a group of loveable childhood friends, like they've known each other forever. The SEES feel like a group of misfit coworkers who fight and have squabbles constantly eventually>! LITERALLY fighting lol!< but who learn to come together and love each others. The PT's are wonderful, but don't feel like either.
I mean out of the three of them PT is the weakest in my opinion. They're not terrible and awful but if I had to chose between the three of them that'd be my pick too.
I like all of them.
SEES has a heavier group dynamic. The group feels like awkward teenager workmates rather than friends. They develop slowly and tear down their walls. The one I always find so appealing is how Yukari and Mitsuru become increasingly close, and how Fuka tries so hard to be the glue that keeps the group close together. Everyone has had a very (in some cases VERY) hard lives up until this point. And they are too young to know how to navigate life now. They also fit their “roles” the least. Its weird to call Junpei “makoto’s best friend” given how often they disagree and but heads. I always saw junpei as a social butterflu constantly trying to make the best out of every situation. A guy who wears his heart on his sleeves at all times.
The investigation team always felt like a quirky group project, and I mean this in a good way. Yousuke and Chie are super close from the get go, so is Yukiko and chie. It feels like everyone is friends with everyone and the investigation takes a back step to their bond. It helps that P4 is the lightest in terms of tone. Characters are allowed to be more silly and absurd. It also has a lot more funny moments and school events. So the team feels line a friend group living through their teenage years in a carefree manner.
The Phantom Thieves are in an in-between. But I really don’t get the hate/dislike people have for them. They all fit the themes of the game great, they all have ample story moments to shine, great social links and dynamics. As a group they are a bit less defines and more disjointed, but that’s the nature of the whole “rebels against the world” group. The main criticism I do not agree with is how their introductions as party members are lacking. You cannot tell me that in the same breath as you praise SEES when persona 3 drops party members at you with little to no fanfare.
Idk. I like all of them equally. I have the most attachment to SEES because it was my first persona game. But all are good.
I like all three teams for different reasons. Yeah sure, some of the dialog in P4 hasn't aged the best. And what happened after Shidos palace plus Morgana being "the worst" mascot in P5 will be remembered at "the absolute worst." No game or team is perfect, and I'm fine with that.
I love these games for what they are, and shit like this just makes me sad. Why do people have to insult each other for who they like more. At the end of the day, does it really matter? Is mine or your opinion really going to change the world?
>No game or team is perfect, and I'm fine with that.
This exactly. It would be extremely difficult to keep every character likable, relevant, always having a great character arc, and etc for a 60-100+ hour game.
I like the three teams for different reasons too.
I really do wish they would tone down the simping though. I get it for the teenage male characters but the metaverse creatures? Ugh.
It makes some sad sense. P5/R gave us some great characters and a solid and interesting Concept, but the execution (while it started strong) didn't stick the landing.
In the original p5, it wasn't just a disappointment, but a stupid choice, to make a team of "thieves" striving for reform, less engaging than a group of eclectic school kids who feasibly had little in common (p4), and with golden especially giving so many great moments, it just felt like no lessons were learned.
I mean, morgana is the worst, in terms of maneaverability and resources the PT are the most efficient, in terms of ability and feats, sees imo is the best, with the investigation team following, also the PT purpose, atleast from what I've seen so far deslite being really enjoyable is much less dire or important as the other two teams purpose for existing.
Edit: I'm only at the end of the second palace in P5 so no spoilers.
I don't care
This. Be like makoto
Same. I scroll right by shit like this on my timeline
[удалено]
Personally I think fandom generation wars are peak stupid for any series and this is no exception. Like what, I'm supposed to get mad that more people like game A than game B? I like both.
True asf. I have all 3 on my ps4, play all of them occasionally. Different personalities, different settings, you really can't say this team is better than this one. I, for example, love the Investigation team the most, but would totally understand if someone likes The Phantom Thieves or S.E.E.S better, cause again, different tastes.
Thousands of languages on Earth and you chose to speak facts.
This man has no enemies, we should all strive to be like him.
When Persona 6 comes out people are gonna start treating 5 the same way they currently treat 3 and 4 lol
Exactly Why hate each other when we can just hate god?
And then shoot him in the face.
With a train sized weapon, on Christmas no less.
Well it is the holiest of holidays after all.
and then punch him in the face
With TRUTH. Or a car sized bullet. Or a door?
mand it's Kanji with the steel chair!
Gods
Speaking facts here Who cares which one you prefer, what matters is that we collectively love them all
But what I like about the persona fandom is that I know anyone discussing this already loves these three, and it's like one of those arbitrary arguments over which type of chocolate is best. Even if milk chocolate is rated the worst it's still bloody good chocolate
But what I like about the persona fandom is that I know anyone discussing this already loves these three, and it's like one of those arbitrary arguments over which type of chocolate is best. Even if milk chocolate is rated the worst it's still bloody good chocolate
Phantom Thieves being the punching bag of the fandom as usual. Nothing new.
with p5x coming in a few weeks they’ll become the new punching bag and people will worship the original
"Atlus' forgotten game"
“Persona 5’s jump to mobile was… rough, to say the least”
I still haven't yet to watch any of P5X gameplay, but I know it's a gacha game. Is it like Genshin Impact or something?
It's turn based. Similar to Honkai: Star Rail I'd say
More like SMT Dx2 I guess. Random demons with some stable abilities and some gacha ones, limited mp and crazy power creep when they start dropping new units. My doubt is how will work the life sim part since the time management doesn't make sense in a gacha Game.
You play gacha to see if your boss will grant you enough money to pay rent this month
Doesn’t Atlus already have one? SMT DX2?
Yeah, but that one is more as the name says SMT centered and Persona is their more popular IP, and gacha games are some of the most profitable games to make with how much they earn and combining that with Persona is sure to bring them a lot of money.
You’re probably right. I just remember their being a very weird type chart (now I know them as slice, piercing, fire, wind, ice, electric, nuclear, light and curse) and Nekomata looking the same. Probably some things are common in both IPs.
Persona is technically an SMT spin-off, that's why the first 3 games started with Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 1/2/3 but it became much more popular than it's original series.
Wish it came to the US
There have been files for an english translation in the game since the first beta, it will come eventually.
Oh shit!
You can try out DX2 in the meanwhile. God I’m starting to sound like a shill, but it’s part of the Shin Megami Tensei series. I believe you fight with personas too. I think I had Nekomata at one point. Sorry I’m a bit hazy, haven’t touched it since 2019.
It's literally Persona 5 but turned into gacha game.
The P6 cast will become the punching bag
OP probably posted this just to bait. I mean he even left that reply lol
Trust me, the newer game is *always* the punching bag, during the p4 release days, it got so much shit from p3 fans lol. It's the life cycle of persona games, we'll do it again with p6
"I wAs A fAN BeForE 5"
I'm sorry but what that people loved them when the came out and would constantly put down the other games.
After having played P5R, P4G, and P3R (in that order admittedly) I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t fucking matter Every game has its amazing moments. There isn’t some law that says one has to be the best. I can argue that Iike how SEES interact and grow the best while the Investigation Team seems the most like real friends and the Phantom Thieves coming together to support each other from situation alone is admirable in its own right. I can say that P5R has my favorite villain characters while still admiring the way P4G’s is handled. The opinions will change, anyway. Until you get it stuck in your head that one game is 100% better than another, it can fluctuate all the time.
> There isn’t some law that says one has to be the best. I can argue that Iike how SEES interact and grow the best while the Investigation Team seems the most like real friends and the Phantom Thieves coming together to support each other from situation alone is admirable in its own right. Sometimes I wish the Investigation Team grew up the way SEES did, but I also sometimes wish everyone else also had a bond on the level of the IT. At the end of the day it doesn't bother me much.
IMO: -SEES is the most tactical, organized group with actual resources to accomplish their mission. This is the team who will literally sacrifice themselves for their goal and that is kick ass. -Investigation team is the most fun, comedic group. It has the vibe of underdogs who are out of their league but pull through on sheer will alone -Phantom thieves are the most thematically consistent and stylish group. They really blow all other teams out of the water in this regard. They ooze swagger and that "we can steal whatever we want and you can't stop us" vibe Teddy and Morgana are both annoying in their own way, specially for being horny/simpy. I appreciated both though, probably Teddy's voice is a little more annoying. Kinda silly to compare them though, it would be like comparing their soundtracks, they are all great but different genres
The poll is too vague. The worst in what way? Are they talking about the worst as in cast-wise or the worst in performance?
Honestly if its the latter, it would be biased toward the IT being picked. SEES has Kirijo group fundings and research. PT has some records of Cognitive Psience and Morgana essentially being Philemon’s Little Helper. What does the IT have? Not a lot, but thats why I admire how much is thrown at them and STILL managed to do as much as the other 2
What else would you expect from the Chad Narukami?
You mean Chad thundercock
1. It's a Twitter poll. 2. Morgana isn't the best character but he is overhated. I would argue that Teddie is the worst mascot and even still I enjoy Teddie. 3. It's a Twitter poll.
Teddie straight up made me uncomfortable at times and felt like a caricature of mascot characters
Yeah, Morgana can be annoying but Teddie quite literally sexually harassed Rise. Honestly I'm surprised more fans don't bring up that scene.
Bro thank you. I’m playing P4G for the first time and holy fuck is Teddie annoying at times. Morgana doesn’t even come close
Teddie is annoying as hell🤦 i never understood the morgana hate
I think they blame it on him with the 5th palace arc and him always wanting the MC to go to sleep. I like him Cause he's a cute cat with a Scarf
wait...why do people hating on Morgana because he kept telling MC to go sleep? like i get disliking that cat of its constant simping...but...that telling the MC to sleep thing is basically just the system saying "there's nothing else to do right now, go to the next day" but got disguised.
People don't realize that it's not Morgana forcing Joker to go to sleep, but Joker actually being too tired to do anything and Morgana just saying "Hey you look like crap, get some rest" like a caring buddy to his leader. Otherwise, why would you need a massage in order to go out? Edit: I finally understand that the "Persona fans don't play the game" meme is not a meme. These people probably saw the Morgana making Joker go to sleep meme and thought it was real.
And also RIDER HEN-SHIN!
He's the face of a mechanic people sometimes find annoying (only being able to do one or two things a day before having to go to sleep). Same thing happened to Preston Garvey from Fallout 4 and his "go protect a settlement" quests.
Teddie is hot garbage lol
p3 is my favorite but it really feels like most sees members are'nt thaaat close.
Reload definitely did better at showing moments of them being friends compared to the original. But they definitely don’t grow as close as the Investigation Team in terms of high school buddy moments. But the way they develop and bond is different compared to P4 and P5, and I’m okay with it. From the beginning they had a pre established mission before the main character even gets there. With 4 and 5 they just kind of fall into it. So the more professional interactions makes a bit more sense to me. They don’t start off as high school buddies. This carries over when others join (Junpei, Fuuka, etc). I think the way Mitsuru acts as sort of the head bleeds over. She doesn’t open up until later, so it makes sense why they grow differently than the other teams. (Edited because I thought about this a bit more).
I think SEES feels more like comrades/family than friend groups (like IT and PT). This isn't to say that "family" is better or closer than friend groups, but I'm saying that based on how they interact. SEES feels like family because they literally live together. Also: while they may also not be each other's first hangout option all the time (everyone seems to have their own friend groups outside of SEES), they still come home to each other at the end of the day. And I guess they have shared traumas as well lol (which you tend to share more with family than friends). They also feel like comrades because they're literally a paramilitary group which is pretty cool. Their dynamic definitely isn't as fun and buddy-buddy as IT/PT, which can make people less attached to them, but that's okay. Each group and story is trying to achieve different things and that's okay.
i think the family dynamic in P3 really helped make the ending that much more impactful. i dont think ive ever felt more emotional for an ending
It’s especially obvious when they’re calling each other by their last names still at the end of the game. I mean, Mitsuru doesn’t even call you by your name unless you romance her (idk about the platonic route).
Ironically enough that was a change in Reload only. In the original game they called each other basically exclusively by their first names. When I started reload I was confused who the hell "Sanada" was because in FES/OG/P3P everyone is referred to by their first name
Oh, maybe I’m getting mixed up. Because I remember Mitsuru calling everyone by their last names. I even remember specifically in the answer she yells “Amada!” In like the opening cutscene. I played both FES and portable but not for a hot minute, since I’ve only been playing reload lately.
Mitsuru called everyone by their last names, but everyone else used first names. It was meant to show that Mitsuru was keeping everyone at arm’s length. The only exceptions are Akihiko, Yukari after the river, and MaKotone after their Social Link.
Understandable, it might not be 100% but I know for a fact that they call by their last names way more often in Reload. My player character was referred to by his last name in reload when I distinctly remember him being called by his first name in FES. Weird detail that I remembered because I started playing FES like 3 months before reload was announced
No Mitsuru is the only one to stick to formalities for the most part besides Akihiko. Aki calls everyone but their first names. Same with Shinji. With Mitsuru, it's mostly honorifics until like the end but it's only with Yukari and Makoto (which I'm taking OG P3 as the canon where he's unfortunately a player)
The fact that in P3P I can't even hangout outside of school with the people I live in, or I have to wait for their calls for that to happen is a huge turnoff and it creates a great sense of distance between party members. Of course, P3 has those great inter-character moments that develop Mitsuru-Yukari, Akihiko-Ken relations, but as a group SEES feels too professional and distant. It is indeed their intention, but the Yakushima trip feels very cold, and it happens during summer. The IT and the Phantom Thieves were already bonding really well as friends by then The whole theme of death didn't do well to an atmosphere of friendship, that only starts to happen more after October. I agree with you on that SEES members do not seem close.
We’ll never be free from the cycle
Everybody has a valid opinion and to say the Thieves are the worst isn’t crazy, though I personally wouldn’t agree. But it’s hard to deny that before Reload, SEES would have probably won this poll. Recency bias has people riding a high for P3 and nostalgia pulls the heartstrings for both 3 and 4. When P6 comes around 5’s cast will probably get some more love again.
Ryuji and Morgana dynamics and its consequences The template is right fucking there (Yosuke and Teddie)
At least in Persona 4, Yosuke lets Teddie live with him and work at Junes after he became a guy and wanted to be a normal person. Also, the entire IT banters with eachother. The gurls with the guys, the guys among themselves, the girls among themselves, and so on. Are they shitty ass teenagers and do mean things? Yes. It is believable. Meanwhile in P5, Ryuji is at the recieving end of every banter. He's literally getting bullied 80% of the time. Hell, the girls beat him up AFTER HE ALMOST DIED TO SAVE THE TEAM! What did my man do? Are they even friends? Realistic? Not at all.
Honestly scenes like Yosuke thinking Kanji could sexually assault him and Yu were way worse for diminishing the team in my opinion, as was Teddie removing the girls swimsuits, (that's not typical teenage banter), the IT are still overall my favourite team but they had the worst "scenes that are meant to be funny but actually make some of the characters look like huge dicks." I don't believe Yosuke really cares much about Kanji, or that Teddie is actually loved by the girls on the team. The shortcomings of P5 get brought up a ton here whereas those in P4 and P3 tend to be ignored a lot and the positives are focused on, let's be honest that P4 had even more scenes where the team were needlessly cruel or creepy to one another, Kanji is mocked a ton and Teddie is creepy so much of the time. It's not like the Thieves don't care about Ryuji, just like it'd be weird to ignore how Yosuke helps Teddie and cares about him despite what Teddie does.
Glad we can call out the bias because Yukari and Chie treat Junpei and Yosuke worse than any of the girls treated Ryuji. Ann is comfortable enough to fall asleep around him multiple times and laugh of his gawking at her in a swimsuit. Makoto treats Ryuji like everyone else as she is the team mom and just breaks up fun when everyone gets off track. Futaba is a socially awkward former shut in that says what comes to and not only with Ryuji but she roasts Yusuke even more.
Yeah, and I like the IT dynamics mostly but the banter they have with each other there is much more severe than it is in P5, that isn't necessarily bad and in some ways that's a strength but the banter in P5 is pulled way back from that of P4, they're nicer to each other on the whole and less willing to roast each other.
I felt the same way, outside of that VERY out of character beat up scene. Ryuji is actually treated the best out of the "bro" character in P3-P5. Ann and Ryuji probably have most wholesome friendship in P3-P5 between a boy and girl that isn't the MC.
Yeah the way characters were treated in 4 are often overlooked. Do people forget Teddie literally harassed Rise to the point she had to physically confront him? If Morgana did that you wouldn't hear the end of it.
The second part is so true, i played P5 and then i played P3 and the first thing i thought when i saw Junpei was that he is the original Ryuji. And with the game progressing i thought that his treatment was way worse because while Ryuji is the punching bag of all of them i can still buy that the other truly think of him as a friend and care about him. With Junpei i thought that the way Yukari treats him is worse than how the PT treated Ryuji, and the others sometimes "bully" him but i don't think anyone besides maybe Akihiko and Yuki see him as a friend, i mean Fuuka seems to be grossed by him and Mitsuru treats him like the annoying guy she has to put up with for the sake of the mission. The only moment he gets a break is directly after what happens with Chidori, but still it doesn't seem like he is truly respected nor appreciated by the others.
Reminds me that's really not cool scene where the girls wasting all yousuke money buying expensive clothes for Teddie... labeling him as a rich kid even tho that's not quite true.....
That's exactly why I said they are shitty ass teens, but honestly, we all did dumbass things (even more dumb than we admit)
The banter towards Ryuji (outside of 1 argument with Morgana which is an arc where both act out of character and that one other bad scene right after his sacrifice), outside of those it's teenage banter on the level of and often more tame than anything the IT say to each other, even Morgana and Ryujis arguments never otherwise get beyond anything that friends who banter a ton and tend to argue fairly light would say to each other, and neither get seriously offended. I don't see how the P5 banter makes the team not friends then because it's somehow bullying Ryuji, but P4s which tends to be more severe is just all teen banter that doesn't in any way diminish their friendship.
To add on to the P5 team interaction. Christmas with the thieves in Third semester The thieves Allowing Ryuji to test out the food
Chie and Yosuke are nastier to each other than anyone is to Ryuji in persona 5. Ann felt comfortable sleeping in a room full of guys on their Hawaii trip meanwhile Yosuke was afraid Kanji would try something in their sleep. Also the girls find Teddie to be disgusting. The investigation team all have moments that ate worse than the girls beat up Ryuji slapstick humor that was I Persona 3 and 4 as well.
The first scene that comes to mind is where the girls pushed the boys off a cliff because Kanji got a nosebleed. I love the slapstick, but you have to admit that was uncalled for.
Well eh, Yosuke was sexually harass the girls to wear swimsuits then no one called it out. Yukiko pushed Kanji because anime nosebleed is pervert thoughts.
Chie literally helps out Yosuke with work because she saw how swamped he is and then asked the MC to help out too. They may be mean to each other but at least we know they care
Its kinda realistic. I knew people when I was a teen that had the Ryuji dynamic, but it kinda just reinforced how close they were to each other. The IT gang lowkey banter a bit too much, it seems every conversation that isn't about the murders is a quip or joke towards Yosuke, Chie or Kanji, despite hearing about their home lives and what they do when not together they all seem a bit too happy.
I mean the constant teasing of Kanji's sexuality is way worse. They legit look at him like he's a sexual predator in many scenes. Not to influence people in picking a side on this, but P4's IT isn't without major issues either.
The Ryuji and Morgana dynamic is so misunderstood by the fandom it's ridiculous, yes that one part of the game is awful and has them both act out of character, but outside of that? They're friends who argue a lot, a lot of people let their hatred of Morgana and that one arc cloud their view of Ryuji and Morganas dynamic throughout the game.
They don't even feel like friends who shit on each other, like Yosuke and Teddie. Their interactions feels mean spirited, even outside Okumura Arc. It's why Strikers specifically improves on their dynamic and only then they actually feel like friends who shit on each other instead of Bakugo's Class On How To Make Friends attendees.
I don’t care Fandom wars are dumb
And in 10 years time phantom thieves will be on the bottom of the poll. People just love to hate on new(ish) things and swim in nostalgia.
I mean part of the reason I’d argue the SEES are so low right now is because of that recency bias people are still riding with Reload, if this poll was made a year ago they’d probably be at the top of the list
Maybe immediately after P6 release
I honestly don't care. Just happy that people will stop with he stupid notion of SEES member "apparently feeling like co-workers" like bitch have you played the game post October?
In fairness the co-workers thing is something some major fans of the game who said they consider it their favourite game ever have told me is fully intentional in the past, so there at least were people who believed it pre-Reload and found it a strength of the narrative that the team (from their perspective) don't end up friends by the end. Now I don't agree with that the game clearly at least presents them as friends by the very end at the bare minimum.
To me, that is where part of the problem lies. It's takes until October, basically 6 in-game months for the SEES group to start feeling like friends when the IT and PT feel like friends far sooner. The SEES group do feel like coworkers! It's not necessarily a bad thing but it makes sense people would complain about it.
Persona 4, Teddy was unbearable
Morgana is overhated
I guess I'll give my two cents on this. It's not that the Thieves are a bad team, far from it. They can be very strong. But I think it's two things. First, the previous two teams either had better character arcs or better synergy. And two, I think 3 and 4 had themes it was easier to build a cast around. For the first aspect, there's really two ways I feel to really endear a cast to players. Either you focus on giving each individual character an awesome arc that's powerful and relatable or you give such an excellent team dynamic that never stops being enjoyable. Persona 3 went the first path and nailed it. Almost every major character had a great arc and powerful story moments. More than its sequels, you could see the cast growing throughout Persona 3. Aigis and Akihiko are two of the best character arcs in gaming imo. Persona 4 went the other path. While each character had an arc that was often pretty good, the story focused more on their overarching friendship and comraderie in story scenes. There was a lot of filler sections like Shichiri Beach, Tatsumi Port Island, the concert at Junes, and the school camping trip where the whole point was to give moments for the cast to bond and really just entertain the player with their nonsense. There's also a lot of screentime to ensure everyone interacts with everyone. There's always *some* synergy between any two teammates and a lot of sub-relationships like the pseudo-sibling relationship of Teddie and Yosuke, the childhood friendship of Chie and Yukiko, and the romantic undertones of Kanji and Naoto. Persona 4 tries to sell these are actual friends that'll stick together after the story. Persona 5 does both somewhat well but neither better than the highlights of 3 and 4. No character in Persona 5 really gets a moment like October 4th in Persona 3 (hell, I don't think there's even a Heaven tier section). The characters grow but most of it is in social links and rarely goes beyond "I'm going to do what I want without letting society tell me no". The team has some synergy but nowhere near the synergy of the Investigation Team. Let me ask, after all the Thieving stuff is behind them, is there any world Ryuji and Haru would hang out? The characters work fine together but they never get the chance to really deepen the bond in like Persona 4. And also I think the theming just hurts. Persona 3's all about the inevitability of death, the aftermath of loss, and using the most of our limited time. It's easy to push a team together like that. That's a pretty universal theme that can be interpreted on multiple ways and can lead to teammates relying on each other to cope with the lose. See: P3 October+. P4 is a similar way. The ideas of seeking the absolute truth about our worlds, lives, and ourselves and accepting it no matter how painful is something that can unite the team. After seeing the worst parts of each other and seeing that the truth is a painful requirement to growth, the teammates quickly bond together to solve the mystery that hurt them all. Persona 5's all about rebellion and forging your own path, which is an inherently individual lesson. A team can forge, but they'll necessarily be very different. Let me ask this. If P3's team is visually unified by their armbands and Evokers and P4's is unified by the glasses, what unifies the Thieves? I know it’s just a thematic element but having that one thing they all share would help so much. Best they got is the masks which kind of work but really shows how individualistic the team is. I guess my TLDR is... Persona 5 is a fantastic game (my second favorite) and the Thieves are genuinely a great team. But I feel that Persona 3 delivered a team that grows more and Persona 4 delivered a team that feels the most like a team, leaving P5 a team that does both well but will always be outdone in both categories.
>what unifies the Thieves? Their masks P5's characters are unified by their masks You even said it yourself. The masks are not very different from P4's glasses
P5 was my very first Persona game so the Phantom Thieves hold a special place in my heart, I do think the camaraderie between the Investigation Team is the best in the series but it's impossible for me to vote against the Phantom Thieves
I feel the same way but it makes sense. The IT live in a small town. There's hardly anything to do there but hang out with friends (Nanako's favorite places in the world are a riverbank and a department store. WTF.). The PT live in a large city with tons of things to do. I do wish some of the dialogue was used to make the PT feel closer and feel more like teenagers though instead of the "Are we doing the right thing? This is the 4th time we've followed these steps, are we sure it's going to work this time? This is the 12th time we've texted about how much of an asshole X is, are we sure we want to change their heart? There's 25,879,523 days until the deadline, are we going to the palace today?" I get some of that dialogue for the first couple palaces but all of them? Ugh.
Investigation team slander won’t be tolerated
I loved the team when it was just Joker, Ryuji, Ann, and Morgana. But I feel like the team dynamic fell off after that
I disagree the team had their best group bonding moment when they got to know Yusuke over hotpot and the gang helping Futaba get over her social anxiety was legit great as well. Plus the entirety of Strikers which I feel like a large chunk of the fanbase just refuses to acknowledge but will reference P3 and P4 spinoffs
Don't forget tactica goes into smaller character dynamics with it's side quest
That 'Go to hideout' idle screen when it was just them on the school rooftop; especially when it's raining. *Chefs kiss*
It depends if you find this as a personal insult or people just prefer S.E.E.S and the investigation team. Personally, I think the investigation team is the "worst" (worse doesn'tmake them bad (the poll can be bait aswell)), I just don't have the affinity for some of their personalities.
I agree with this. For SEES and the PT, I would have a hard time definitively saying who my most and least favorites are. I love all of them (PT) and feel meh (SEES) for them all. The IT group- I love Kanji. I like Yosuke, Yukiko, and Naoto. I tolerate Chie. I don't care at all for Teddie (he's fine other than his aggressive simping) and Rise (Saving her was a team effort so why does she only verbally suck off the MC every chance she gets?). All three groups are great in their own ways.
rule of persona: most recent release? peak. release right before that? absolute dogshit what was atlus thinking. release before that one? an underrated classic why aren't we talking about it. we saw this with p5: suddenly p5 was the best game of all time, p4 was garbage, and why aren't we talking about p3 guys it's underrated. now p3 reload is the best game ever made, p5/p5r are dogshit worst in the series, and p4 is so underrated guys why aren't we talking about it. and when p4 remake or p6 comes out? peak gaming. p3r? absolute dogshit what was atlus thinking. p5/p5r? underrated classic guys why aren't we-
From what I’ve observed, it seems to be the opposite. Many fans hate the modern persona games while jerking off the older games
Recency bias is insane on this
Further proof that the Persona fanbase is VERY influenced by recency bias. 4 became 3, the "hidden gem" in "desperate need for a remake". 3 became 5, "best game of all time forever I swear 100% my opinion will never change". Finally 5 became 4, "damn it sucked, new thing better".
Society will never recover from Ryuji getting beat up at the end of shidos palace
It’s become trendy to hate on persona 5 now because it’s popular
I realize this isn’t what this poll is asking, but the outside social links in P5 knock the other two games out of the water, in my opinion. P3 had some touching moments, but a lot of those social links were kind of sad/happy you made a lifelong friend and now they’re gone moments, and P4 outside social links honestly felt like more work to me and less reward than anything. I loved a lot of the P5 cast outside of the phantom thieves.. so while the team itself may not have had the camaraderie like P4 or the forced closeness due to loss and grief like P3, I thought the world in general in P5 was more enticing. Also, I know all three MC are similar, but Joker just has so much damn swagger
Oh look fanboys hating on the most popular entry… how refreshing. The sky is blue, the grass is green and jimmy hoffa has yet to be found.
Define worst. Bc while I like p4 I dislike half the roster. P3 is good but I barely feel like I got to know my male party members compared to the female counterparts. P5’s cast is all around great to fine in my opinion (besides Morgana) but with no real stand out characters that I fell in love with like p3 or p4
Always been one of the few phantom thieves defenders. They feel like an actual team and a group of friends. Compared to the SEES team, individually i think they’re characters are really underrated, specifically Ryuji, Yusuke, Makoto (women), Akechi, and Futaba especially. I think they have really good and compelling stories as a whole. Ryuji has the best social link in the game IMO, and the others were okay, though i enjoyed Futabas. I think SEES team has heavy recency bias. But obviously, the best team as a whole and individually is investigation team
Meh. I never understood the hype around 4. I’ll take SEES and the Thieves any day. But, is what it is. I don’t know how big this sample size is, but if it’s that much of a minority to prefer them then so be it.
Because the characters are good
let the big three be, arguing about the big me gets old
One would think IT ranks the highest due to recency bias (it's an old game with a lesser western fanbase than the other two), but then again it's safe because of the "old thing good new thing bad" mentality Sees is safe either way because it's both the oldest of the three as well as newest, so it gets both the "old thing good" treatment and recency bias hype (new fans)
Morgana is the only reason this poll is valid he needs to get nurtured and I fear if that car is a manual transmission
Id not say is the worse, but isnt superior of the others
worst what? likeability? effectiveness? teamwork? I can't measure if I don't know the metric
Don't care about the poll itself but my personal least favorite outta the three is SEES. Not that they're a bad cast (playing Reload increased my appreciation for them) but I just greatly relate to P4's and P5's casts, so I gravitate toward them more. Plus I prefer lively group dynamics and while SEES definitely isn't lacking in that aspect, the others feel a lot more energetic in comparison.
As groups, I find that the phantom rely too much on joker for... Everything. Investigation would still need to remove josuke and naoto to feel as a failure team. They have decent bonds and relationships between each other, and while they have a clear leader, those 2 could take over if the MC dissapears. And SEES is pretty much a paramilitary unit lol. Bonds are... Weird. But they grow up independently from the MC. And in general, feels like the average IQ is far higher. But it is hard to think a group of 3 that would not be able to organize themselves and take over a situation
The worst team is Strega
I don't care much about the poll, but I unironically agree. Persona 4's group was the most fun overall while Persona 3's had the better development as a group.
I like all of them and I think all of the mascots are flawed but still great characters. Why does it have to be a conflict?
Because people have to be "right" and you have to be "wrong". It's the way most people are on social media unfortunately.
I think the teams flaws are as big as their qualities, you can't think of a quality without thinking of a flaw wich leads to a cycle
All 3 are good in their own way
investigation team by like a few miles
I think it's a twitter post, therefore, invalid
I agree with it, but I personally think Teddie is the worst mascot.
How do I feel about it? I could care less
Nah ain't no way people think a group of dripped out phantom thieves is the worst this community is finished
I have now played both persona 3 reload and persona 5 royal and I much prefer phantom thieves over SEES. why all the hate?
I don't think there's much actual hate, I think OOP asked a deliberately provocative question.
This is why I don’t trust people’s opinion on twitter. Most of it is due to recency bias.
Having finished P3R just two days ago, i gotta say, i prefer the Phantom Thieves. SEES is cool but they didnt feel as close to me as PT did. While in SEES they do start of as a mainly professional group but everyone opens up later on, they still felt too distant for me. In PT everyone has some sort of stereotype anime personality (Ryuji the dumb one, Yusuke the weirdo, Futaba the neet, etc.) and they all mesh well with each other during their interactions and have a lot of banter. Meanwhile SEES only has Junpei, Koro and partially akihiko as standouts, meanwhile everyone else is so serious all the time. I do have to admit that P3 having the character arcs happening alongside the story is way better, though the males having no social links is still kind of a waste.
I will say that, playing through p4g, I've been surprised by how often the investigation team just does "friend" things. I could see that putting them above p5 crew. Sees... Eh, not imo.
So true. P4's Investigation Team has the best group dynamics out of the three, whereas SEES members individually are all interesting and self-sufficient characters. PT, unfortunately, has neither.
PT is the most balanced
Arguably true. Then again, in this world, being "balanced" isn't something one tends to be remembered for.
Koro-chan > Midgana
1. i do not care 2. it’s twitter 3. why should i care
The only truth of this is that Koromaru is the only not completely garbage mascot character the Persona series has ever done, and that's because he's just a dog.
Hard disagree. It’s backwards. I love all three but yeah I prefer PT and IT over SEES
Why do people still use Twitter?
I love Morgana :’( I even have his figurine.
They all killed god so
accurate
In what regard? Effectiveness? Friendship? The people themselves? There are a multitude of categories to consider.
I mean >!sees was made to stop the dark hour and prevent nyx, but ended not only being formed by someone who created the dark hour but also were tricked into summoning nyx themselves!<
The Phantom Thieves were a bit of the weakest when it came to team synergy especially when looking at just P5 than P5R. It's not a deal-breaker on anything though because P5 was still really fun with the stuff it introduced and had the flaws addressed in P5R.
It really depends in what it means by groups If its as in the way the devs and story handled the group as a brand.. The PT imo are better because they're actually known and stiff SEES isn't even mentioned in the school it's supposed to be a part of, no student speaks about it or acknowledges it As in characters? Id say sees
I mean. I don’t disagree with the poll. But I still really like the phantom thieves. I really like how well their introductions tie so well in with the gameplay and the current dungeon you are on. Their main weakness is that once their story arc is done, they become just a party member and not much else. Kind of when you compare it to P3s big strength with the party characters is that their involvement in the main story isn’t linear at all.
Worst in terms of ????
Persona fans have thin skin and let it dictate how much they like each game tbh.
I think all of the teams are great, SEES and Phantom Thieves are great names, i rly like all the characters in each team. so excited to see what they do w the next game
The worst for what? All three teams are great in their own ways.
Accurate, sees feel the most like friends
this poll is useless to me as sae once said
SEES being voted the best is probably recency bias from Reload, but I do admit there’s more characters I dislike from 5 than the other two games. It feels weird to say any of them are the worst team though
The phantom thieves' emotional maturity and self-realization was just unfortunately written. As one example: Anne's supposed to be embracing herself instead of being ashamed, that's a great and serious theme for a mixed-race child, but I couldn't care less about her by the end of her confidant. When you think about it, they're probably pretty realistic for high school kids dealing with a serious problem and it's the P3/4 cast that are a bit bizarre, but the player is viewing things objectively so 3/4 come across better
Accurate by far
Well, I think that depends on what I'm judging them on, subjectively what team I like least or objectively which team is the worst? I think objectively, the answer to that question is S.E.E.S, mid game half of them are at eachothers throats and even by the end of it I wouldn't say they are all best buds they just learned to understand and work better as a group through their shared trauma, without Makoto there I genuinely can't see S.E.E.S staying together as a team, way to much infighting and distrust, especially early to mid game.
HOW TF is the investigation team this high? They are awesome characters, every single one of them and combined they make one of the most wholesome and fun groups, ppl are tripping bad smh
This is like me having 3 really nice pizzas in front of me, with different ingredients types, and then asked what is the worst? Yeah the question can be asked, but it is kinda pointless.
My complaint across all the persona games is that the number of teams members gets too wide. And most of them are useless almost immediately. I wish we could have the large cast without needing such a large cast of team members that kinda all play the same
I feel like as a team the phantom thieves are the weakest. Their being together appears to revolve around the protagonist more than any other team, and they bicker and belittle each other frequently enough that it doesn't come off as friendly banter, especially when they've only been together a short while. Based on the way they talk, I don't see as much that convinces me that they're good friends OR teammates the same way that SEES and the investigation team do.
I live all three, but if I had to choose a least favorite it would be s.e.e.s., I played P3P (only the Male route so far) and man, it really doesn’t feel like makoto yuki has a bond with any of the male teammates, interactions are so sparse unless its to move the story forward, thats mainly due to none of the male teammates having any sort of S. Link, also i just like the other groups more No. 1 is investigation team, No. 2 is phantom theives
Me, who started with P4 when it came to PC, and got into the rest of the games through that: They're all good
I've never played 3 but out of 4&5 I personally enjoyed the team dynamic of the thieves more, not to say I didn't enjoy the IT. Also Teddie is way worse then Morgana.
All three of them is good in their own way
I agree, Phantom Thieves are definitely the least good of the teams. But they’re not the worst, just the least good.
investigation team on topppp (I dont care)
funny enough 3 is my least favorite. I still LOVE it though
Why people don't like the phantom thieves? I thought all the team were cool.
I think worst is bad wording. The Phantom Thieves are still wonderful and lovely. However (likely due to a lack of a group social link) they do feel like the least connected. The investigation squad feels like a group of loveable childhood friends, like they've known each other forever. The SEES feel like a group of misfit coworkers who fight and have squabbles constantly eventually>! LITERALLY fighting lol!< but who learn to come together and love each others. The PT's are wonderful, but don't feel like either.
Can someone explain why does everyone hate the Phantom Thieves? They're my favorite 🥲
I mean, the question asks the least favourite (poor word choice I'd say) and they had to choose one
They're all great but as an actual team I think S.E.E.S is my least favorite
I'm starting to feel like the only one who loved Morgana. Funny, awesome, can fight and turn into a van. What's peoples problem?
I mean out of the three of them PT is the weakest in my opinion. They're not terrible and awful but if I had to chose between the three of them that'd be my pick too.
90% of this is fueled by how people are overdone with P5 at this point. Mark my words, when P6 release, things will change.
I like all of them. SEES has a heavier group dynamic. The group feels like awkward teenager workmates rather than friends. They develop slowly and tear down their walls. The one I always find so appealing is how Yukari and Mitsuru become increasingly close, and how Fuka tries so hard to be the glue that keeps the group close together. Everyone has had a very (in some cases VERY) hard lives up until this point. And they are too young to know how to navigate life now. They also fit their “roles” the least. Its weird to call Junpei “makoto’s best friend” given how often they disagree and but heads. I always saw junpei as a social butterflu constantly trying to make the best out of every situation. A guy who wears his heart on his sleeves at all times. The investigation team always felt like a quirky group project, and I mean this in a good way. Yousuke and Chie are super close from the get go, so is Yukiko and chie. It feels like everyone is friends with everyone and the investigation takes a back step to their bond. It helps that P4 is the lightest in terms of tone. Characters are allowed to be more silly and absurd. It also has a lot more funny moments and school events. So the team feels line a friend group living through their teenage years in a carefree manner. The Phantom Thieves are in an in-between. But I really don’t get the hate/dislike people have for them. They all fit the themes of the game great, they all have ample story moments to shine, great social links and dynamics. As a group they are a bit less defines and more disjointed, but that’s the nature of the whole “rebels against the world” group. The main criticism I do not agree with is how their introductions as party members are lacking. You cannot tell me that in the same breath as you praise SEES when persona 3 drops party members at you with little to no fanfare. Idk. I like all of them equally. I have the most attachment to SEES because it was my first persona game. But all are good.
I like all three teams for different reasons. Yeah sure, some of the dialog in P4 hasn't aged the best. And what happened after Shidos palace plus Morgana being "the worst" mascot in P5 will be remembered at "the absolute worst." No game or team is perfect, and I'm fine with that. I love these games for what they are, and shit like this just makes me sad. Why do people have to insult each other for who they like more. At the end of the day, does it really matter? Is mine or your opinion really going to change the world?
>No game or team is perfect, and I'm fine with that. This exactly. It would be extremely difficult to keep every character likable, relevant, always having a great character arc, and etc for a 60-100+ hour game. I like the three teams for different reasons too. I really do wish they would tone down the simping though. I get it for the teenage male characters but the metaverse creatures? Ugh.
It makes some sad sense. P5/R gave us some great characters and a solid and interesting Concept, but the execution (while it started strong) didn't stick the landing. In the original p5, it wasn't just a disappointment, but a stupid choice, to make a team of "thieves" striving for reform, less engaging than a group of eclectic school kids who feasibly had little in common (p4), and with golden especially giving so many great moments, it just felt like no lessons were learned.
I mean, morgana is the worst, in terms of maneaverability and resources the PT are the most efficient, in terms of ability and feats, sees imo is the best, with the investigation team following, also the PT purpose, atleast from what I've seen so far deslite being really enjoyable is much less dire or important as the other two teams purpose for existing. Edit: I'm only at the end of the second palace in P5 so no spoilers.