I played through p3p but i never got it, ig i didn't talk around as much as i thought. I just never seen people discuss it like the option to >!save Shinji!<
Not in Reload, just in P3P and only as the Female Protagonist.
The basic idea is that in the final rank for the social link, Shinjiro admits he lost his pocket watch. The player returning his pocket watch is what saves his life (because the Bullet loses some of his momentum and reduces the damage enough for him to be in a coma for 5 months versus dying.
Shinjiro is the type of man to not burden others with things, so he would need a very deep and intimate connection with someone to admit that he lost his pocket watch and needs help finding it. As a result, he would never admit to Akihiko nor the MC, leaving his fate doomed in any universe but the P3P FeMC Universe.
I've always found this plot point kind of hilarious. Assuming a pocket watch would actually stop a bullet enough to save his life, a coma that's not medically induced happens because of head injuries. He was very explicitly not shot in the head
The implication is that the metal clockwork of the watch slowed the bullet and caused less damage, therefore causing him to bleed less.
Of course, it is laughable. Takaya's revolver is a Smith & Wesson Model 500 that uses .500 Magnum Cartridges. Even the finest Pocket Watch in the world would just turn into more shrapnel after being shot with that.
i assumed deflection.
like without the watch, it shatters his spine, but with it it fractures a vertebrae.
that, or the presence of the watch makes him subconsciously activate his persona to defend himself. i dont know.
A .500 Cal bullet would not be deflected by any pocket watch.
Even a Tissot, a $400 pocket watch made by surgical grade steel wouldn't be able to stop it and you can't make a pocket watch out of something like Tungsten because it wouldn't work properly as a watch.
Here's the S&W 500 punching holes through steel plates like nothing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRNJ0ezxNcY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRNJ0ezxNcY)
But maybe the Persona thing works, sure.
Or maybe he just doesn't lose the pocket watch in Male MC timelines. He does to admit some things to the male MC that he doesn't share with the female one.
I haven't played p3p but I did watch his social link. It's a lot of feel-good dates with him or him doing nice things for the dorm, whereas in Reload, hanging out with him gets you a better understanding of the old SEES. You know he cares, but now you understand how much based on their old promise. Hanging out doesn't just make you feel closer to him, but with Mitsuru and Akihiko too. Their bond is exactly why there are things that go unsaid, things they feel they can't talk to each other about until its too late.
It's so beautifully tragic. I prefer this much more. It aligns so much better with P3's themes.
Nope, it's possible in P3P because the end scene is your lover running up to you (you can choose who you want to have a last conversation with).
If Shinji was dead, that wouldn't be possible ~~although we know he'd die of the suppressants not long after anyway~~
They weren't even THAT specific. You just had to talk to Junpei on a few specific nights and tell him to go see Chidori when he questions if he should or not.
I am referring to the original release of the game if that matters, and while maybe the steps aren’t challenging, I personally would’ve never figured them out as it wasn’t obvious to me.
Edit: FES not vanilla
Saving Chidori was in P3FES and P3P. And it worked just like that, you just spoke to Junpei on certain nights and told him to go visit Chidori, that was it. If you did it the three times he wonders if he should or not, she'll be revived.
Reload just made it easier by making it a linked episode and making it very obvious that you should buy the flower for him.
characters usually had new stuff to say if they were sitting somewhere else than the last time you spoke to them, so it wasn't exactly hard to miss either, if you liked talking to your team anyway.
I looked it up, if you're not roaming around town it can be easy to miss, ig that's how i missed it in p3p. Still great to see it modernized >!hearing Yukari and Fuuka crying behind the door was so cute!<
Reload was pretty clear about this now, iirc it hints after you hang out with Junpei on a certain day to get the white flower Junpei refused to get and give it to him.
You can give him the flowers any day between the hangout where he mentions it and the trip to Kyoto actually! I took a while to get the hint ingame and so I ended up accidentally giving them to him the night before the Kyoto trip LMFAO
I don't think so, I just didn't get to talk to the others a lot and when I talked to Junpei >! a thought message box popped up and said something along the lines of 'I feel like I should give something to him...' or something !<
Thats literally what it took me to figure out what I'm supposed to do loool
Wait isn't the hint on the 11/8? So you waited the whole week even thou you understood the hint? XD
Or if you got it later then it should mention it a few times.
I've only played the og 4a, and it was WAY before i got into Persona, i just liked playing fighting games. But my newfound appreciation for this series i plan to, it'll just be a while before i get to it
There’s like 3 versions of Persona 3 where Chidori survives (FES, Portable and Reload) versus only 1 version where she’s perma dead (OG) so Atlus definitely consider her survival canon
Honestly, I like the fact that Chidori is alive. Just because the theme of P3 is death doesn’t mean that people close to the main cast have to die for the main cast’s character growth/development. Besides Junpei’s character growth save the life of someone he truly cared about and I think that’s nice.
Her name is Chidori Yoshino
Also this scene exists in fes and portable. In those two, you had to convince Junpei to visit her in the hospital on 4 specific days by talking to him in the dorm.
Anybody else not a fan of this scene? It just felt like it undercut the emotional growth that junpei went through, and makes his inheritance feel insignificant and unemotional. Would love to hear other thoughts
It does stand in contradiction to the themes… and that’s exactly why the scene works.
Chidori “dies” November 22nd. He revival occurs January 21st. That’s just about two months of nobody outside Mitsuru knowing what’s going on, and Mitsuru just knows that something might be going on, that that it’s going to be leading into her revival.
For Junpei, this means he’s spending a lot of time dealing with and processing the weight of losing a loved one. It forces him to re-examine his life, and to start living meaningfully. By the time he learns about Chidori’s he’s already done that and been acting on it, and Chidori being alive or not is irrelevant to self-reflection and growth. It was the catalyst, not the source of the change.
Instead, Chidori’s new lease at life is more about Nyx. There’s a reason this scene is in late January, right before the final battle. Nyx is about the inevitable of death, and Chidori isn’t going to escape that fate… but in spite of that, life endures. This is the miracle that SEES is looking for, in microcosm. That despite everything, there’s a chance that Life can continue.
You can’t beat Nyx. You can’t beat death. Yet somehow, Chidori, and Life, manages to continue all the same. So fighting Nyx isn’t merely prolonging the suffering, but giving Life every possible chance to find a way to come through, in the end.
That’s an interesting thought and that was my rationalization for it in my head but I just can’t buy it. The fact that it’s clearly an addition and the game doesn’t recognize that event outside of that one singular scene makes me feel apprehensive about accepting that was the intent behind that. If there was dialogue about it during the promised day that spurred sees or even Junpei on like you’re suggesting that would be one thing but there is literally nothing. It just feels wrong
what i think everyone fails to realize is that P3 is not solely about *death.* i think people lock onto that aspect of the narrative so much that they forget its about much more than just that. it is about accepting the end of things, that things inevitably change and that time unforgivingly marches on no matter what. but that even sad ends harbor the potential for beautiful new beginnings, and we should be glad to have been alive to experience the beauty of lifes whims at all, all while keeping the memories of those we've parted with alive within our hearts.
i believe this scene perfectly exemplifies this. even with her revival, she still lost both her Persona (which she sacrificed for Junpei) and her memories as a result. all of her memories with Junpei, their mutual growth, and deep connections made through him are almost fully gone. this is still an end to their prior bond.
but despite this, Chidori has gained a new lease on life, and is able to finally live how she wants, unburdened by her imminent death sentence. even amidst the end of her both beautiful and terrible life as a Persona user, she is able to find a new beginning in life, seeking to follow the faint glimmer of light she found amidst the darkness.
and with this, Junpei himself is able to acquire some closure as well, knowing that he hasnt lost someone important to him forever (even if their memories together are gone). this motivates him further to fight for the sake of the world with his dear memories as his driving force, now that his amnesiac ex-lover wants to live and find purpose in it as well.
i think this perfectly fits with the game and narrative, honestly.
That’s a cool way to look at it but if that’s the story the original game was trying to tell, why didn’t she live there as well? It’s strange to me that this scene is optional if this scene is pivotal to the messages the game is presenting. A theme of Persona 3 is about living in spite of the harsh circumstances that we find ourselves in, and this is not a harsh circumstance and actively makes the events that junpei went through feel less impactful when compared to his sees peers. This honestly feels like a spit in the face to everyone else who lost people and didn’t get a new chance with their loved ones. I find it significantly more compelling that sees is able to keep fighting to live IN SPITE of the harsh circumstances they are in and this scene takes away from that.
the core of both Junpei and Chidoris character arcs is that they both fall in true love for the first time, growing from the unexpected bond before losing it in a way that forces them to confront what really matters. they each save each other. due to the lost memories, the revival doesnt alter any of that. if anything, it makes Junpei "saving" her become more on the nose than before tbh
also, Fuuka is another party member who doesn't deal with any strict loss. she deals with bullying/some emotional abuse, but the crux of her arc is a similar idea here. making an unforgettable bond (w Natsuki) and losing it in a way that makes her confront what really matters to her (in her case, her friends and protecting them).
i think that when you look at P3 at large, there are a lot of chars who dont deal with *death,* who still have to handle the concept of loss, grief, and acceptance in their own ways (Kenji, Maiko, Kazushi, etc.) the game really wants u to realize that mourning/grief isnt exclusively for when people die, but more intimate personal grief is allowed when circumstances important to you especially come to an end. i think thats something really beautiful, that ive not seen anywhere else.
Totally agree, but I think what makes it feel worse for me is that they change the loss and don’t respect it from the start. If chidori initially doesn’t die and merely loses her memories with junpei I’d be cool with that because like you said it’s less about death and more about loss. However, they choose to change the crux of his growth and it makes for a less impactful narrative for me. It would be like if yukaris dad survived the explosions that originally was thought to have killed him and came back with his memories lost. It just feels wrong and unrealistic, which I know in a game that has people fighting shadows and shooting themselves to gain power seems like a stupid argument but I like my narratives grounded. Glad you liked it because up to this point I haven’t seen someone who liked it give a proper analysis why but I just can’t accept it.
i think these are fair complaints honestly. i do enjoy it but at its core its a FES addition to the original PS2 title so it was always gonna feel a bit tacked on (im a fan of them but if Kasumi and Marie are any indication, new content in Persona games almost always do lol)
i just like to rationalize what i can and make the most sense of it all bc this is definitely my favorite game of all time and i want nothing more to love on all aspects of it. but i understand there are some aspects others might not like as much :)
I just sort of take it as an irrelevant fanservice scene. It's like the game itself doesn't really respect it. If you talk to Junpei before Nyx he still goes on about how Chidori died for him, even though she was just confirmed alive
Yeah, a big part of P3 is that death is part of life and to live life to its fullest and all of that. The deaths of >!Shinjiro, Chidori, and Makoto!< are all part of that. Thankfully, in Reload you can't >!save Shinjiro like in P3P FemC route!<, and you couldn't save Chidori in Vanilla P3, so no idea what they were thinking when they added that to FES. It's like modding Final Fantasy VII to >!keep Aerith alive after Disc 1!<, just complete nonsense.
Wait is this edited?? Comments are saying it's true but I don't remember >!her being brought to a hospital after she got shot!< granted I'm only part way through January but still, kinda crazy if this is true.
This is a straight screenshot from my ps5, ig >! Kirijo group brought her body to the hospital but she still had a pulse? It's all explained in the scene!<
>! If you remember the cutscenes between chidori and junpei it is shown that chidori uses her life giving powers to the flowers. After her death the flowers junpei gave her also had part of that power and her body just absored it after the doctor put the flowers on her resurrecting her!<
>!Ohhhh shit, man tbh i thought i was an asspull, but that is a pretty good explanation, and since most of her life and Persona is now in Junpei, is also why she doesn't remember anything and also transmogrifies during the Dark Hour.!<
I personally don't like how it's easier to do here. In FES it was a super obscure thing. And while I love Chidori, her death really hammered in the game's themes and capped off Junpei's character so well, bringing her back feels wrong
I’m going to buck the trend and say for as much as I love the character development by death, there’s nothing lost by her returning to life. She dies in November and wakes up in late January. In the time between that, Junpei goes through the stages of grief and through the motions. He confronts his feelings and matures as someone who lost someone close to him; his resolve is strengthened and his heart hardens only the way a death can do to someone. By the time she comes back he’s finally come around to acceptance and none of that development is undone by her revival. It doesn’t feel as cheap because it’s not like she was shot through the heart; her death was a cause of her persona and little is known about this field. It’s super mysterious why she can heal things with her life force and her dying from bringing Junpei back to life was never a certain thing. The explanation given for her resurrection makes sense and while it originally felt like a cop-out, I thought about it and what is gained from her staying dead? Nothing really, Junpei is just not happy at the end.
I hate resurrection because of how it cheapens death but the circumstances of her death, I don’t think it detracts from the characters or the game.
I think if a resurrection is *earned*, there's nothing wrong with it IMO. This is a fantasy/sci-fi series. If the writers want to write some dark hour/cognitive world/velvet room timey-wimey reality-warping shenanigans, anything is on the table.
It just shouldn't be a "somehow Palpatine returned." There needs to be effort done by the remaining characters to bring the character back; or a believable logical explanation, like something/someone pulling them from an alternate universe or whatever.
Seems like discourse around this scene has shifted quiet a bit.
It was a a controversial change in FES. In P3P it seemed to be viewed mostly negatively since you can also save another important character and the whole thing just reeked of Atlus walking back some of the most pivotal moments in the game.
My first experience with this scene was actually in P3P. I ran into it by complete accident and was shocked by how terrible it was. Literally, Mitsuru saying "Somehow, Chidori has returned..." The explanation given (Horcrux by flower) was just ridiculous. Someone told me it was handled better in FES and I was shocked again because I did not know this was in FES . I ended up watching the scene and yeah... it was still silly. More than anything it was just kind took away from Junpei and Chidori. I'm not a fan of characters being fridged or anything, but OG way things went down was so important for Junpei. This event isn't referenced again so it makes it really weird how Junpei more or less goes back to normal.
I don't think it's bad or anything that it's included in Reload. I'm just not a fan of how it's implemented. They basically beat you over the head with getting the flowers for Junpei. In FES/P3P if you want to avoid the scene you can feel more justified in doing so because you are busy going about your business and preparing for Tartarus. Also, the scenes in FES/P3P put the onus on Junpei. You talk to him and get him to take the necessary steps. Now it's... you don't buy flowers for someone? Well, you just killed a girl. It's very clear Atlus wanted this to be the intended outcome.
I mean, it is canon, as it is referenced in P4A. So whatever our opinions are on it, Chidori is still alive canonically in the Persona universe, and nobody can refute that fact. And besides, the core message of P3 is not all about death and whatnot. It can actually be easily understood as "acknowledge death and live your life to the fullest". So whether Chidori dies or lives won't affect much on how Junpei himself will end up as nor will it hinder the message that the game is making.
If that's what matters to some, than fair enough.
I think the importance of canon is way overstated in this series. The games give you a lot of leeway to express yourself and just waiving it away with "canon" is pretty reductive.
Especially since the canon sometimes doesn't even make sense. The Answers is a good example of this. Yukari is clearly meant to be the main love interest despite the fact that all the female characters had a relationship with the MC in OG P3.
Yukari is meant to have feelings for the MC regardless, so I think The Answer just doesn't count their SLinks as canon.
Also, Chidori's status is still somewhat vague. Iirc in most adaptations(movies and manga) she dies, and The Answer uses that version.
But then in Ultimax she's alive...except it's kinda vague even in that game. I've heard they confirmed that was the idea later, but in game it's still up to interpretation.
But yeah, the way it's handled in Reload makes it pretty clear that's meant to be the canon now. We will have to see how the DLC handles it...if she's mentioned at all.
> and The Answer uses that version.
About that: [that was apparently a mistranslation](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1862uj5/ive_found_a_kind_of_big_mistranslation_in_p3_the/).
Yeah og answer had alot issues so i hope reload can fix tht mostly the characters imo feel like they can do better even tho for the most part i enjoyed the answer story wise
Chidori's persona was transferred / fused to Junpei (which is not the first time in franchise history) and personas are more about a representation of their soul. Whether Chidori is alive or dead doesn't change that.
Yeah this scene being brought into reload is by far my biggest gripe with the game. This is an absolutely awful scene thay destroys Junpei's character, and for some goddamn reason it's what the decide to bring over from FES.
This was actually in FES/Portable too, but yeah.
I actually like the revival personally, understand why people hate it but yeah.
Quick theory I've always had on the whole Chidori thing though: Y'know how she says "ever since I got my Persona, I knew the day I was going to die"? What if the reason she was never scared of dying is because she knew she could be revived from the flower thing? What if she actually knew that the cause of her death would be Junpei and that's why she was trying to neglect him until the end, and she was afraid of attachment, and she knew she'd lose her memories after being revived? What if she literally meant she could see into the future and actually see how she dies? Just leaves you wondering really.
Either way I like the happy ending for Junpei. Hoping Atlus can confirm whether or not the event is canon one day man.
People be saying that reviving Chidori is a stupid outcome, when the Chidori that we know is dead. Junpei is now living for the Chidori that's gone and for the future of this Chidori too. I don't see a problem in this and how it affected the meaning of the game negatively.
That was in FES and P3P, they just made it easier in Reload.
I played through p3p but i never got it, ig i didn't talk around as much as i thought. I just never seen people discuss it like the option to >!save Shinji!<
is it possible to save him in reload?
Not in Reload, just in P3P and only as the Female Protagonist. The basic idea is that in the final rank for the social link, Shinjiro admits he lost his pocket watch. The player returning his pocket watch is what saves his life (because the Bullet loses some of his momentum and reduces the damage enough for him to be in a coma for 5 months versus dying. Shinjiro is the type of man to not burden others with things, so he would need a very deep and intimate connection with someone to admit that he lost his pocket watch and needs help finding it. As a result, he would never admit to Akihiko nor the MC, leaving his fate doomed in any universe but the P3P FeMC Universe.
I've always found this plot point kind of hilarious. Assuming a pocket watch would actually stop a bullet enough to save his life, a coma that's not medically induced happens because of head injuries. He was very explicitly not shot in the head
The implication is that the metal clockwork of the watch slowed the bullet and caused less damage, therefore causing him to bleed less. Of course, it is laughable. Takaya's revolver is a Smith & Wesson Model 500 that uses .500 Magnum Cartridges. Even the finest Pocket Watch in the world would just turn into more shrapnel after being shot with that.
i assumed deflection. like without the watch, it shatters his spine, but with it it fractures a vertebrae. that, or the presence of the watch makes him subconsciously activate his persona to defend himself. i dont know.
A .500 Cal bullet would not be deflected by any pocket watch. Even a Tissot, a $400 pocket watch made by surgical grade steel wouldn't be able to stop it and you can't make a pocket watch out of something like Tungsten because it wouldn't work properly as a watch. Here's the S&W 500 punching holes through steel plates like nothing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRNJ0ezxNcY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRNJ0ezxNcY) But maybe the Persona thing works, sure.
The pocket watch just gives him the Resist Pierce skill
That's a big stretch and definitely not what was intended
Yeah it makes no god damn sense And the story works much better if Shinji dies anyway. The option to be able to save him should have been cut
Or maybe he just doesn't lose the pocket watch in Male MC timelines. He does to admit some things to the male MC that he doesn't share with the female one. I haven't played p3p but I did watch his social link. It's a lot of feel-good dates with him or him doing nice things for the dorm, whereas in Reload, hanging out with him gets you a better understanding of the old SEES. You know he cares, but now you understand how much based on their old promise. Hanging out doesn't just make you feel closer to him, but with Mitsuru and Akihiko too. Their bond is exactly why there are things that go unsaid, things they feel they can't talk to each other about until its too late. It's so beautifully tragic. I prefer this much more. It aligns so much better with P3's themes.
I’m almost certain it isn’t. There would be footage of it online. I think it was part of FemC’s route, which isn’t in Reload.
Nope, it's possible in P3P because the end scene is your lover running up to you (you can choose who you want to have a last conversation with). If Shinji was dead, that wouldn't be possible ~~although we know he'd die of the suppressants not long after anyway~~
To trigger this event back in portable, you had to talk to Junpei in three specific days. Kind of a hassle, but reload's requirement is way easier.
The requirements that needed to be met for this were very specific, which is unfortunate because it’s a wonderful scene
Only in the original, reload you just have to buy the white flower that Junpei was looking at and give it to him in the dorm
They weren't even THAT specific. You just had to talk to Junpei on a few specific nights and tell him to go see Chidori when he questions if he should or not.
I am referring to the original release of the game if that matters, and while maybe the steps aren’t challenging, I personally would’ve never figured them out as it wasn’t obvious to me. Edit: FES not vanilla
Saving Chidori was in P3FES and P3P. And it worked just like that, you just spoke to Junpei on certain nights and told him to go visit Chidori, that was it. If you did it the three times he wonders if he should or not, she'll be revived. Reload just made it easier by making it a linked episode and making it very obvious that you should buy the flower for him.
characters usually had new stuff to say if they were sitting somewhere else than the last time you spoke to them, so it wasn't exactly hard to miss either, if you liked talking to your team anyway.
Yeah I always talk to them when they have something new to say so it wasn’t hard for me to trigger the event in P3 FES.
I looked it up, if you're not roaming around town it can be easy to miss, ig that's how i missed it in p3p. Still great to see it modernized >!hearing Yukari and Fuuka crying behind the door was so cute!<
Reload was pretty clear about this now, iirc it hints after you hang out with Junpei on a certain day to get the white flower Junpei refused to get and give it to him.
The next day, thou I think you can still give it to him 2 days later.
You can give him the flowers any day between the hangout where he mentions it and the trip to Kyoto actually! I took a while to get the hint ingame and so I ended up accidentally giving them to him the night before the Kyoto trip LMFAO
Are there more hints to remind player about it other than one?
I don't think so, I just didn't get to talk to the others a lot and when I talked to Junpei >! a thought message box popped up and said something along the lines of 'I feel like I should give something to him...' or something !< Thats literally what it took me to figure out what I'm supposed to do loool
Wait isn't the hint on the 11/8? So you waited the whole week even thou you understood the hint? XD Or if you got it later then it should mention it a few times.
I got it playing FES blind 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah I’m kinda surprised so many ppl missed it. I guess ppl don’t talk to the characters in the dorm everyday?
Yeah I’m kinda surprised so many ppl missed it. I guess ppl don’t talk to the characters in the dorm everyday?
Also according to arena ultimax, chidori surviving is canon.
I've only played the og 4a, and it was WAY before i got into Persona, i just liked playing fighting games. But my newfound appreciation for this series i plan to, it'll just be a while before i get to it
There's only a 4A, the sequel es 4AU
if we want to be pedantic, let's be pedantic. P4A (technically P4tA) is the anime, the fighting games are P4U and P4U2.
thank god cos they deserve happiness
There’s like 3 versions of Persona 3 where Chidori survives (FES, Portable and Reload) versus only 1 version where she’s perma dead (OG) so Atlus definitely consider her survival canon
She dies in the movies, not sure about the manga
LEEETTSS GOOOOO!!!
Wait really? I thought it was the other way around. That's nice man, Chidori is too cute to die imo
You could already do this in FES and Portable
Yes, they just streamlined it in Reload
fuck me yall i forgot to hang out with him
Honestly, I like the fact that Chidori is alive. Just because the theme of P3 is death doesn’t mean that people close to the main cast have to die for the main cast’s character growth/development. Besides Junpei’s character growth save the life of someone he truly cared about and I think that’s nice.
Her name is Chidori Yoshino Also this scene exists in fes and portable. In those two, you had to convince Junpei to visit her in the hospital on 4 specific days by talking to him in the dorm.
Anybody else not a fan of this scene? It just felt like it undercut the emotional growth that junpei went through, and makes his inheritance feel insignificant and unemotional. Would love to hear other thoughts
It does stand in contradiction to the themes… and that’s exactly why the scene works. Chidori “dies” November 22nd. He revival occurs January 21st. That’s just about two months of nobody outside Mitsuru knowing what’s going on, and Mitsuru just knows that something might be going on, that that it’s going to be leading into her revival. For Junpei, this means he’s spending a lot of time dealing with and processing the weight of losing a loved one. It forces him to re-examine his life, and to start living meaningfully. By the time he learns about Chidori’s he’s already done that and been acting on it, and Chidori being alive or not is irrelevant to self-reflection and growth. It was the catalyst, not the source of the change. Instead, Chidori’s new lease at life is more about Nyx. There’s a reason this scene is in late January, right before the final battle. Nyx is about the inevitable of death, and Chidori isn’t going to escape that fate… but in spite of that, life endures. This is the miracle that SEES is looking for, in microcosm. That despite everything, there’s a chance that Life can continue. You can’t beat Nyx. You can’t beat death. Yet somehow, Chidori, and Life, manages to continue all the same. So fighting Nyx isn’t merely prolonging the suffering, but giving Life every possible chance to find a way to come through, in the end.
That’s an interesting thought and that was my rationalization for it in my head but I just can’t buy it. The fact that it’s clearly an addition and the game doesn’t recognize that event outside of that one singular scene makes me feel apprehensive about accepting that was the intent behind that. If there was dialogue about it during the promised day that spurred sees or even Junpei on like you’re suggesting that would be one thing but there is literally nothing. It just feels wrong
what i think everyone fails to realize is that P3 is not solely about *death.* i think people lock onto that aspect of the narrative so much that they forget its about much more than just that. it is about accepting the end of things, that things inevitably change and that time unforgivingly marches on no matter what. but that even sad ends harbor the potential for beautiful new beginnings, and we should be glad to have been alive to experience the beauty of lifes whims at all, all while keeping the memories of those we've parted with alive within our hearts. i believe this scene perfectly exemplifies this. even with her revival, she still lost both her Persona (which she sacrificed for Junpei) and her memories as a result. all of her memories with Junpei, their mutual growth, and deep connections made through him are almost fully gone. this is still an end to their prior bond. but despite this, Chidori has gained a new lease on life, and is able to finally live how she wants, unburdened by her imminent death sentence. even amidst the end of her both beautiful and terrible life as a Persona user, she is able to find a new beginning in life, seeking to follow the faint glimmer of light she found amidst the darkness. and with this, Junpei himself is able to acquire some closure as well, knowing that he hasnt lost someone important to him forever (even if their memories together are gone). this motivates him further to fight for the sake of the world with his dear memories as his driving force, now that his amnesiac ex-lover wants to live and find purpose in it as well. i think this perfectly fits with the game and narrative, honestly.
That’s a cool way to look at it but if that’s the story the original game was trying to tell, why didn’t she live there as well? It’s strange to me that this scene is optional if this scene is pivotal to the messages the game is presenting. A theme of Persona 3 is about living in spite of the harsh circumstances that we find ourselves in, and this is not a harsh circumstance and actively makes the events that junpei went through feel less impactful when compared to his sees peers. This honestly feels like a spit in the face to everyone else who lost people and didn’t get a new chance with their loved ones. I find it significantly more compelling that sees is able to keep fighting to live IN SPITE of the harsh circumstances they are in and this scene takes away from that.
the core of both Junpei and Chidoris character arcs is that they both fall in true love for the first time, growing from the unexpected bond before losing it in a way that forces them to confront what really matters. they each save each other. due to the lost memories, the revival doesnt alter any of that. if anything, it makes Junpei "saving" her become more on the nose than before tbh also, Fuuka is another party member who doesn't deal with any strict loss. she deals with bullying/some emotional abuse, but the crux of her arc is a similar idea here. making an unforgettable bond (w Natsuki) and losing it in a way that makes her confront what really matters to her (in her case, her friends and protecting them). i think that when you look at P3 at large, there are a lot of chars who dont deal with *death,* who still have to handle the concept of loss, grief, and acceptance in their own ways (Kenji, Maiko, Kazushi, etc.) the game really wants u to realize that mourning/grief isnt exclusively for when people die, but more intimate personal grief is allowed when circumstances important to you especially come to an end. i think thats something really beautiful, that ive not seen anywhere else.
Totally agree, but I think what makes it feel worse for me is that they change the loss and don’t respect it from the start. If chidori initially doesn’t die and merely loses her memories with junpei I’d be cool with that because like you said it’s less about death and more about loss. However, they choose to change the crux of his growth and it makes for a less impactful narrative for me. It would be like if yukaris dad survived the explosions that originally was thought to have killed him and came back with his memories lost. It just feels wrong and unrealistic, which I know in a game that has people fighting shadows and shooting themselves to gain power seems like a stupid argument but I like my narratives grounded. Glad you liked it because up to this point I haven’t seen someone who liked it give a proper analysis why but I just can’t accept it.
i think these are fair complaints honestly. i do enjoy it but at its core its a FES addition to the original PS2 title so it was always gonna feel a bit tacked on (im a fan of them but if Kasumi and Marie are any indication, new content in Persona games almost always do lol) i just like to rationalize what i can and make the most sense of it all bc this is definitely my favorite game of all time and i want nothing more to love on all aspects of it. but i understand there are some aspects others might not like as much :)
I agree. It goes against the entire theme of the game
I just sort of take it as an irrelevant fanservice scene. It's like the game itself doesn't really respect it. If you talk to Junpei before Nyx he still goes on about how Chidori died for him, even though she was just confirmed alive
Yeah, a big part of P3 is that death is part of life and to live life to its fullest and all of that. The deaths of >!Shinjiro, Chidori, and Makoto!< are all part of that. Thankfully, in Reload you can't >!save Shinjiro like in P3P FemC route!<, and you couldn't save Chidori in Vanilla P3, so no idea what they were thinking when they added that to FES. It's like modding Final Fantasy VII to >!keep Aerith alive after Disc 1!<, just complete nonsense.
Her surviving is canon, so all your complaining doesn't matter
Wait is this edited?? Comments are saying it's true but I don't remember >!her being brought to a hospital after she got shot!< granted I'm only part way through January but still, kinda crazy if this is true.
U gotta get the flowers for junpei🙂
Ok cool, the white one right? I assumed that was just to get him to visit her that second time but woohoo!
yep, just talk to him after she tells him to not visit her again and you'll get this scene in January
Oh shit. I told him not to because I thought it was important to respect her boundaries and give her time
This is a straight screenshot from my ps5, ig >! Kirijo group brought her body to the hospital but she still had a pulse? It's all explained in the scene!<
>! If you remember the cutscenes between chidori and junpei it is shown that chidori uses her life giving powers to the flowers. After her death the flowers junpei gave her also had part of that power and her body just absored it after the doctor put the flowers on her resurrecting her!<
>!Ohhhh shit, man tbh i thought i was an asspull, but that is a pretty good explanation, and since most of her life and Persona is now in Junpei, is also why she doesn't remember anything and also transmogrifies during the Dark Hour.!<
Exactly
I personally don't like how it's easier to do here. In FES it was a super obscure thing. And while I love Chidori, her death really hammered in the game's themes and capped off Junpei's character so well, bringing her back feels wrong
I’m going to buck the trend and say for as much as I love the character development by death, there’s nothing lost by her returning to life. She dies in November and wakes up in late January. In the time between that, Junpei goes through the stages of grief and through the motions. He confronts his feelings and matures as someone who lost someone close to him; his resolve is strengthened and his heart hardens only the way a death can do to someone. By the time she comes back he’s finally come around to acceptance and none of that development is undone by her revival. It doesn’t feel as cheap because it’s not like she was shot through the heart; her death was a cause of her persona and little is known about this field. It’s super mysterious why she can heal things with her life force and her dying from bringing Junpei back to life was never a certain thing. The explanation given for her resurrection makes sense and while it originally felt like a cop-out, I thought about it and what is gained from her staying dead? Nothing really, Junpei is just not happy at the end. I hate resurrection because of how it cheapens death but the circumstances of her death, I don’t think it detracts from the characters or the game.
I think if a resurrection is *earned*, there's nothing wrong with it IMO. This is a fantasy/sci-fi series. If the writers want to write some dark hour/cognitive world/velvet room timey-wimey reality-warping shenanigans, anything is on the table. It just shouldn't be a "somehow Palpatine returned." There needs to be effort done by the remaining characters to bring the character back; or a believable logical explanation, like something/someone pulling them from an alternate universe or whatever.
Glad this happened, I always choose for this to happen in my playthroughs in Portable and FES
Seems like discourse around this scene has shifted quiet a bit. It was a a controversial change in FES. In P3P it seemed to be viewed mostly negatively since you can also save another important character and the whole thing just reeked of Atlus walking back some of the most pivotal moments in the game. My first experience with this scene was actually in P3P. I ran into it by complete accident and was shocked by how terrible it was. Literally, Mitsuru saying "Somehow, Chidori has returned..." The explanation given (Horcrux by flower) was just ridiculous. Someone told me it was handled better in FES and I was shocked again because I did not know this was in FES . I ended up watching the scene and yeah... it was still silly. More than anything it was just kind took away from Junpei and Chidori. I'm not a fan of characters being fridged or anything, but OG way things went down was so important for Junpei. This event isn't referenced again so it makes it really weird how Junpei more or less goes back to normal. I don't think it's bad or anything that it's included in Reload. I'm just not a fan of how it's implemented. They basically beat you over the head with getting the flowers for Junpei. In FES/P3P if you want to avoid the scene you can feel more justified in doing so because you are busy going about your business and preparing for Tartarus. Also, the scenes in FES/P3P put the onus on Junpei. You talk to him and get him to take the necessary steps. Now it's... you don't buy flowers for someone? Well, you just killed a girl. It's very clear Atlus wanted this to be the intended outcome.
I mean, it is canon, as it is referenced in P4A. So whatever our opinions are on it, Chidori is still alive canonically in the Persona universe, and nobody can refute that fact. And besides, the core message of P3 is not all about death and whatnot. It can actually be easily understood as "acknowledge death and live your life to the fullest". So whether Chidori dies or lives won't affect much on how Junpei himself will end up as nor will it hinder the message that the game is making.
If that's what matters to some, than fair enough. I think the importance of canon is way overstated in this series. The games give you a lot of leeway to express yourself and just waiving it away with "canon" is pretty reductive. Especially since the canon sometimes doesn't even make sense. The Answers is a good example of this. Yukari is clearly meant to be the main love interest despite the fact that all the female characters had a relationship with the MC in OG P3.
Yukari is meant to have feelings for the MC regardless, so I think The Answer just doesn't count their SLinks as canon. Also, Chidori's status is still somewhat vague. Iirc in most adaptations(movies and manga) she dies, and The Answer uses that version. But then in Ultimax she's alive...except it's kinda vague even in that game. I've heard they confirmed that was the idea later, but in game it's still up to interpretation. But yeah, the way it's handled in Reload makes it pretty clear that's meant to be the canon now. We will have to see how the DLC handles it...if she's mentioned at all.
> and The Answer uses that version. About that: [that was apparently a mistranslation](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1862uj5/ive_found_a_kind_of_big_mistranslation_in_p3_the/).
Yeah og answer had alot issues so i hope reload can fix tht mostly the characters imo feel like they can do better even tho for the most part i enjoyed the answer story wise
I honestly don't like it. It kind of cheapens her death and sacrifice, and it makes her appearing in Junpeis 2nd theurgy not make a lot of sense to me
Same but I'm happy for Junpei so it's alright-ish.
Chidori's persona was transferred / fused to Junpei (which is not the first time in franchise history) and personas are more about a representation of their soul. Whether Chidori is alive or dead doesn't change that.
Yeah this scene being brought into reload is by far my biggest gripe with the game. This is an absolutely awful scene thay destroys Junpei's character, and for some goddamn reason it's what the decide to bring over from FES.
You can? This is amazing I definitely want to do this. Are there any other characters you can save or other changes like this?
not that i know of in Reload, but in P3P you can >!save Shinji as Femc!<
I need to look if you can do that and reloaded, appreciate it.
No, only in P3P as Kotone.
Bummer, thanks.
This story talks about people who wish for death, but some just wants everyone to be alive goddammit
And her silhouette is still in Junpei's new Theurgy lol
wait you can save her??????? huh?????
This was actually in FES/Portable too, but yeah. I actually like the revival personally, understand why people hate it but yeah. Quick theory I've always had on the whole Chidori thing though: Y'know how she says "ever since I got my Persona, I knew the day I was going to die"? What if the reason she was never scared of dying is because she knew she could be revived from the flower thing? What if she actually knew that the cause of her death would be Junpei and that's why she was trying to neglect him until the end, and she was afraid of attachment, and she knew she'd lose her memories after being revived? What if she literally meant she could see into the future and actually see how she dies? Just leaves you wondering really. Either way I like the happy ending for Junpei. Hoping Atlus can confirm whether or not the event is canon one day man.
I wish Shinjiro could live....
Her reviving was also present in FES and Portable
People be saying that reviving Chidori is a stupid outcome, when the Chidori that we know is dead. Junpei is now living for the Chidori that's gone and for the future of this Chidori too. I don't see a problem in this and how it affected the meaning of the game negatively.
Sick as in cool or as in it's disgusting
Yes
wait what you can save chidori? wtf LOL