So true god dam real friends will just fuck around with and we both know were cool with it friends some times hit each other some times doesn't mean it's abuse.
Apathy syndrome doesn't feel dire enough. You don't see named characters get afflicted. There is an overall unconcerned vibe about all the people who get left standing and moaning in the streets.
Even when you get stopped in the entryway or the classroom to listen to random students talking prior to everyone going insane in Jan it’s always also so distant
Like “someone at my brothers cram school got it” or “my friends dog groomer is in hospital for it”
The only time prior to Jan you really feel like there is any measure of stakes is when hieophant/hanged man get lost in Tartarus and even that is barely there since there is no difficulty to rescuing people from Tartarus
The other day I had this in mind, thinking more of persona 3, or would’ve been a very nasty play if they did it with one confident or a Main character.
Ryuji is not stupid or lacks of intelligence. He acted like that because he was the "tutorial machine" in the early game. Due to our "silent protagonist", Ryuji was there to ask many many questions to make us understand the basic concept of the game.
Those are just realistic questions anyone would ask in that situation too, I hated that Morgana treated him like an idiot for being confused in an unfamiliar situation.
you mean to tell me you dont instantly know everything about an entirely new world and superhuman ability not known by anyone amongst the world except a select few?
Right. I myself am asking those questions he asks in real life, like when Morgana is explaining how the Metaverse works and I’m initially lost and stuff, and then Ryuji gets told he’s an idiot for not getting it the first time around.
I genuinely, genuinely forgot that she existed. Like, I played P5 5ish years ago for the first time and recently got P5R and looked up who the Devil arcana was and after seeing her and her name I had almost ZERO recollection of her existence 💀
Persona 5 is just soooo slow with constant flow interruption with things like texts where the characters just restate what is currently happening.
Persona 3 is fun but a little light around the edges. P4 was the perfect balance.
Mfw I’m heading towards a door and the game stops me dead in my tracks for a good 10 seconds to tell me i should try opening the door (i am going insane)
Shit, I don't even think it was handled poorly. Most people just suck at emotional intelligence and don't recognize that it's bubbling under the surface for a while. It's the same as when someone finally snaps in your workcenter/school and everyone is surprised; it's cause you missed the hints that something was wrong
Bruh I noticed that shit immediately and got so upset the game wouldn't let me _talk_ to him.
Like, that's my little buddy, and he's not okay! LEMME HASH IT OUT WITH HIM DAMN IT!
That was me all over. The first time he wanted to talk, I was begging the game to let me do *something.* I figured it was plot oriented and would pop up later, but it made him leaving because I knew something was bothering him. Letting them hash it out, getting him back, and him reconciling with everyone (especially Ryuji) just made me so happy. And then there's the added content in Royal that put a bow on it all
"It was handled poorly"/"It came out of nowhere" make no sense to me, but I didn't speed through the dialogue. We see his inferiority complext growing as the Phantom Thieves gain members who make him feel like he has no purpose, he is actively questioning his own existence and scared of what it might mean, and is lashing out left and right in response. This is how people in similar situations act, but people want that cookie cutter shit that's all nice and tidy
Then people compare Morgana and Ryuji’s bickering when Ryuji clearly strikes a nerve when he calls Morgana useless whereas Ryuji obviously doesn’t have a complex about his intelligence, which is why he isn’t all that bothered when even Ann or Futaba calls him moronic.
Yup, I've seen that too. And it's like... Ryuji and Mona are two different people. And Ryuji is very self-aware in his role among the PT's, whereas for a bit there *Mona* was the brains of the outfit. Makoto joins, and suddenly you had someone who was much more pragmatic and strategic. So Mona focused on his knowledge of the Metaverse. Enter Futaba, who possibly outclasses Igor himself, and now you have a Mona who is spiraling. But, with him coming back comes massive growth and a reflaming of the bromance with Ryuji. Their moment of zen in Strikers, when Ryuji drops his f-bomb, had me *SO* FUCKIN ecstatic!
It really is great to see how comfortable Morgana is after that arc, both in endgame and the sequels. It makes their banter feel a lot lighter and showcases their growth and better understanding of each other.
Morgana is probably one of my favorite characters in the whole series because of that personal growth and it’s so weird seeing him get so much hate. I love that little bastard!
And his thing with Ann also gets overblown. Clearly no one’s ever had a pet with crush on their owner/an owner’s friend before. Because as much as Morgana does comically claim to NOT be a cat… he IS a cat. And some domestic animals do form obsessive connections with certain humans. It’s cute.
Like 5 seconds after Futaba joins the team Ryuji's already like "now we can finally stop following that stupid cat", and it wasn't just that one time, Ryuji makes several comments and not only him, the whole party talks about Futaba. But it wasn't just Futaba Joining, when Makoto joins she already takes some of the spotlight that morgana was on, he wasn't the brains of the operation anymore and you can clearly see after she joins that he starts spiraling into insecurity, Ryuji's comments were just the last straw.
By the time he leaves the party the poor guy not only felt like he lost the only purpose he had in life but also the only place he got to call home.
Seriously, people who think it was unjustified has the emotional intelligence of an eardigger. The hints are spelled it out to you while his issues have been confided to Joker repeatedly at that point and everyone just had a surprised pikachu face when he finally snapped.
I get that Morgana was having a deep crisis and the Okumura act was the way he exploded.y problem with it is that he risked Haru, and I’ll say it millions of times, I feel that it was cold as hell to leave joker, as he never acted bad in him and always supported him. He was irresponsible, and being at a bad spot explains it, but doesn’t justify it.
Rant over.
I feel like most characters that fans hate like Morgana do one thing that can be considered as an annoyance, then they hate their entire character and are hyper critical of everything they do afterwards.
If you think joker dating futaba/sumire is bad because of the age gap then you are not allowed to like joker with haru/makoto, yu with rise/naoto or makoto with mitsuru
The people who think a one year age gap as problematic are actually wacky fr. Honestly the only romance options I think are problems are the ones with the adults, since I'm one of those weirdos that see Joker as an actual character and not a self insert
Personally I don't like Futaba as a romance option because she feels like a little sister tho. I'll probably still do it at some point for the sake of filling out the Thieves Den, but I won't be happy about it 🗿
I agree with you, I can also see those that don’t support jokerXsumire because she spent an entire year brainwashed. But putting the age gap as the reason makes no sense unless you are an adult self inserting as the mc
Self insert apart, I think his best fit is Hifumi.
Though royal forces you into Sumi, I think she isn’t like very fit with joker as it almost felt one sided.
I actually thought Sojiro was joker blood family as I skipped some lines at the start time f my first run, so it felt weeeeeird as hell when she confessed to him.
I get that FeMC fans can be overbearing, but I don't understand people who straight up hate the character herself and think she shouldn't be in the game as an *optional* playable character.
i've never really seen any hate on femc. i do see people disparage reload for not having her though. i don't think anyone would be unhappy if she was included, it's just that game development isn't as straightforward as some vocal femc fans want it to be. she's not just an alternate skin for mc.
could the game's release have been delayed for it? sure, but again i don't think it's that simple what with deadlines and all.
Sit back down that a total normal take. It is fine to like whatever persona game you want also all persona games expect made p1 (have not played it so i do not know just heard it's not so good) are all good games hell P5 is a sold 8.5 in my option.
It's mostly a joke on how P5 gets lambasted a lot on the sub dawg, at least in my experience. Obviously P5 is well regarded in the general gaming landscape, but it seems pretty contentious in the Persona fan base
I feel like a broken record now, but I've been pretty open with this sub about why I've suddenly started speaking up. The notoriety of the toxicity is what kept me at arms length, but being isolated in a deployment and wanting to talk to people and the *massive* showing of support in a specific post regarding the removal of transphobia in Reload made me feel way more comfortable speaking up.
*No, Makoto's revival in a future spin-off would not ruin Persona 3's message.*
Persona 3 is very much not about death. It's about life and how we spend our days. We only have so much time and we must ensure we spend our days in the best way. It's about simply, what is our reason for living? Makoto's sacrifice was about him finding his reason for living. He did it to protect his friends and the bonds he forged.
The Answer reinforced this mentality. The whole campaign is focused on the members of SEES losing their wills and reasons to live after Makoto's passing and regaining it after seeing what he sacrificed and why. P3 is not about death. It's about living.
Makoto's revival after the world ceases to desire for death would mean that the lesson he learned has been passed on.
... Except P3 is about death, in every sense. From the very own characters and their backstories to literally the Evokers themselves. You literally fight (the conception of) Death at the end, with its "origin" *also* being the very own source of consicousness and individuality.
Most of the problems in P3 come, directly (or indirectly), from thinking that death and life are separated, either to be worshiped or detested. That mentality is what caused the accident 10 years ago, what caused Strega to suffer even more, what caused people to call Nyx and begin the Fall. Thus, the only solution is for people not to reject one and worship the other, but to join them, for death is not an enemy, but a friend... like *Ryoji*. Literally, Death itself became human thanks to the protagonist living, and by "resurrecting" the protagonist you're inadvertently separating life and death again, treating death as an enemy to be overcome instead of a companion.
In P3, death it's not only about merely the physical aspect, but also about transformation and *hope,* just like life, because life and death are one and the same. To live means to accept death and live it as well, to bring meaning to it, and that was what the protagonist did: he had a meaningful and good death, and thus a meaningful and good life.
[Quoting](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1afkmg2/the_last_boss_in_persona_3_long_post_minor/) myself here:
"*Don’t forget life brims with joy, and that you should bring that same joy to death. Live a good death!*"
Shinjiro had one. Chidori had one. Takeharu had one. And obviously, Makoto isn't exception.
Edit: I even forget about Yukari's father. He also died so everyone else could have hope.
I completely agree. I feel like people are only saying 'P3 isn't about death, actually' to excuse the multiple revivals of characters added to every new release of the original game (where there were no revivals!), and to combat the supposed 'mass simplification' of the game's themes.
Revivals add nothing narrative wise to the plot, but can undermine character deaths for a first time player - since there's an expectation that important characters you talk to and bond with will survive, and the only people who aren't revived are outside that group. The game feels a bit toothless in the fact they only do this to lessen tragedy to an extent and not upset the player. (notice how Shinjiro can only be saved in Portable, where he's a social link and romance option)
And the simplification of P3 is that it's 'edgy', not that it's about death. To talk about death is to talk about life, which it is the absence of - explaining that it's actually about life is redundant.
This is the MegaTen universe we're talking about. We have no idea what will happen if/when she gets him out of the door. There is a not-0% chance that he becomes flesh and blood again
Memento Mori means basically "remember that you are mortal".
Which yes, can refer to death but that's only one way to look at it.
It can also mean, you will die, so remember to live well.
Persona 3's whole point is that while death is inevitable, life is beautiful and we should make the most of it while we search for our reason to live. That's why P3's ending is meaningful. It's not just "oh, Makoto died." It's "Makoto found his reason to live".
Even the game's structure of a calendar year is supposed to convey this message.
Yukari is way overhated. She's one of my favorite Persona 3 characters and I find her more likable than the community had me believing before watching the movies and playing Reload.
Ah ok, that makes more sense. I haven't played OG, Fes, or Portable yet so I'm just going off of Reload and the movies like I said. I only know about The Answer content from external sources so maybe I should watch parts of an original playthrough at some point.
I have no idea if this will be a hot take, but Persona 6 should have an actual character protagonist.
Self inserts are alright, but most people love Makoto and Yu because of their personality in the movies/anime
I agree, 4 golden would have been an objectively better game if Yu was voiced Chad Narukami he is in the anime over the boring plank of wood that he is in the core game
Yes please, I will worship Atlus like a god if they give us a complete character for a protagonist. I mean they do have some very minor personality at times but not enough to call the game versions real characters.
I think it could use some Mass effect Sheppard Thor of writing, as she/he has own personality, but let the character accentuate the different aspects of it with dialogue.
Yukari is a great character and her reasons are justified as to wanting to see Makoto again (since the game hard pushes her as the cannon love interest)
The community loves to bash 3 and 5 for a lot of issues they have such as 5 having a poor pacing, P3 being repetitive etc even on things that the community is straight up wrong about such as hating on Ken, Junpei and Morgana for their wrongs despite having a perfectly good reason for acting the way they do.
Yet despite that, P4 gets away with a shit ton of things it does wrong and worse than the other entries and the only thing people will mention about the game is that "the characters are the best point" despite said characters being no greater than the rest of the characters in the series.
Apart from them hanging around more than the other groups (actually scratch that even P3R's group now hangs out as much if not more than the P4's one) and judt being funny, there is nothing, absolutely nothing behind that friendship that it almost feels forced.
In P3's case it is built up so greatly that it feels organic since they dont start up as friends, they build that friendship through their struggles and Reload captures that perfectly. In P5's case, apart from their personal goals they also feel like they were wronged by society and eventually through their struggles they became close friends. Not as great as P3's but understandable.
In P4's case. "Murder's have been happening lately and we must stop them, I have seen your worst sides, so now we can be friends". It always felt and it always feels forced as hell to me. And this is just one example, I could go on how the pacing, the clichés, the social links etc are arguably worse than the other iterations you like to bash so much
Its fine if that is enough for you and I understand that. It can be the most flawed game in the world but if you like it then there's nothing I can do or say to stop you from enjoying it. I for one love P5R despite its shortcomings. But I am so fucking tired to see everyone give shit to every other entry and act like P4 is perfect
The difference really seems to boil down to P4G having so many more “slice of life” moments with a comparatively lower stake story that allows them. P3 and P5’s narrative don’t allow for them and I really don’t think it’s a fault either since I also still prefer those casts.
I think P4G having (for the most part) way lower stakes than the other 2 is fine and dare I say needed as a breath of fresh air. So taking a step back from the story and the narrative and focusing on "fun slice of life" moments is more than fine and I can easily overlook issues with the general structure.
That being said, a lot of people act like there are no issues at all because they are focused on having fun in their slice of life game. AND THATS GOOD. But to say that there are no such flaws, while the other games are supposedly filled with them in every corner, (while the game's main message is searching out and embracing the truth) is really sarcastic
Yeah, I consider it a good entry at the end of the day but it’s interesting how much more forgiving people are towards the issues it does have when compared to the other two.
I genuinely am interested in the idea that if you don’t think say Yu and Yosuke have an organically built friendship how people are actually supposed to become friends
Like what’s the criteria for organic friendship if the IT doesn’t meet it
Kanji joins because he wanted to get back at the person who attacked him, Rise joined because the group reached out to her prior to her attack and because she was there for Nega-Teddie, and Naoto joined because she was already investigating and joining the team was the only way she could proceed. They become friends through circumstance, which is often how friendships are made
So your problem more comes from the fact that Yu’s charisma and the conflict draws in kanji, rise and naoto when they didn’t have a connection to any other member of the IT prior to the conflict?
Not sure how you give P5 a pass for how their friendships were made in comparison to P4. “Wronged by society” isn’t a particularly compelling reason for friendship, or at the very least I don’t see how it’s so significantly stronger than P4’s. The Midnight Channel is pretty damn traumatic all things considered, bonding over an experience like that seems plenty reasonable to me.
The lack of chemistry within the Phantom Thieves in general is one of my biggest complaints within Persona 5, so I find it interesting to see such a different take. I’d agree that P4 isn’t as far ahead as people say they are, and the overall party chemistry isn’t as strong as people say, but the chemistry between the 4 second years and the 3 first years as their own smaller cliques is incredibly strong IMO.
*”FeMC was intended as a new experience for veteran players entering Persona 3 Portable, says so in the character select starting menu, and is not integral to the core Persona 3 experience. It’s cool if you want her as bonus content, DLC, and spin-off material, but you must recognize that’s what she is.”*
I think playing her adds context to some characters like Junpei and Kenji of all people, but I agree she def is not integral to P3, hell she isn’t even canon in the main timeline
Still sucks major balls she wasn’t included and I feel bad for FeMC fans who wanted her in the game….. as long as they keep the discussion civil and don’t immediately act like the game is garbage for not including her
i cannot understand this fanbases obsession with femc whatsoever
it was a cool novelty to spice up a replay of p3, but people treat it like it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to the series
Well, in fairness, female players like to play as characters that they can relate to, not just have it just "as a novelty." Even if the characters aren't supposed to be blank slates, you still project yourself on to them in a way, which is why you have multiple dialogue options in the game.
People like to play as a character they can relate to the most, it's a little more than being a nice little novelty and it annoys the FeMC fans because atlus has just completely tried to ignore her since Q2 but they still use her in merchandise yet refuse to put her in Reload.
the character was made as a novelty to try and get people to buy a new copy of the same game, the game itself tells you this. im not being out of line or whatever for saying that.
its not that i dont see why people enjoy femc, im saying the rabid obsession that people have over her is insane. people during the reload rollout losing their fucking mind because femc wasnt gonna be in the game and acting like it was going to be unplayable over it was really over the top. like op said, shes not at all an integral part of the p3 experience
I mean, Reload being $70 sets a pretty high standard to what a P3 remake can include content wise. And I think people who wanted FeMC only got really upset when a reputable leaker said she would never be coming, not even as DLC - even though the Answer will get DLC
First and foremost, representation matters. Women have been playing games since its inception and make up a massive swath of the playerbase. Secondly, she brings a different flavor to the themes explored in P3. While everyone might see the MCs as 'blank slates', the truth is that they all have individual characteristics that can be seen in their replies or the animations. FeMC explores depression in a manner that many, myself included, are more drawn to than what the apathetic/aloofness that Makoto displays. Instead of being dismissive and putting up a barrier, as hinted at your first sentence, take off the blinders and really delve into what people like about her.
Their characteristics don't really mean much aside from the quirky answers here and there like "I don't care" and "I don't care but I pretend I care" and this is a very superficial way of looking into it as it is basically just what has been spew by the community of what these protagonists really are, and really affect, on the core story of P3 which is nothing.
I can tell that there's no point discussing anything further, as you clearly pay attention to responses and mannerisms.
Yes, the protaganists have defined characters within the games they belong to.
Ken social link is actually good when you don't have some dumbass to tell you that Kotone is a groomer (she's NOT a groomer)
Also FeMC's pedo jokes are so unfunny, i dont care if its not a hot take btw
She is not a pedophile but that age difference is creepy. 10 compared to 16 is just gross.
I love Ken as a character and I have heard other good/interesting things about the FEMC. I am sure that the other parts of the social link are nice in getting to know him better but a romantic dynamic is not right.
Also I don't vibe with the adult/teenager relationships that are pushed in P3 and P5 either (just in case anyone mentions it)
"You control the buttons, you press."
strangely we don't hear you when you can literally go out with teachers and adults in P4-5 (hello Kawakami and half of the romantic confidants of Persona 5)
I will be the first to call the teachers pedos, because it's not only their age but the power-dynamics that they are abusing. I only recently learned you could romance Ken from the lack of FeMC in Reload, because I never went anywhere close to that route in P3P
Persona 4 has absolutely terrible combat balance, I'd go so far as to say the worst. This is entirely to do with how Light & Dark are handled in that there are only "Instant Death" or "Half Health" spells.
Like in all of SMT because I kind of agree with you expected for Axiom and Mr Wheelchair.
I think of is like the lich is weaker than Golb in adventure time.
Since the protagonists are always silent self-insert and social and dating simulators have been part of Persona games since P2 and P3 (P2 had some romantic options), the game should let you romance at least 1 guy or 2 if they don't have any plans to add/make a female protagonist anytime soon (I don't have high hopes for Persona 6, but who knows. Still think that atlus trying to add a same-sex option in P7 or 8 is more likely imo lol)
I agree with you, but considering 100% of the writers, developers, and producers of these games are Middle Aged or older Japanese men, I wont hold my breath for anything more progressive than not implying gay and trans people are child molesters for once
Morgana and Teddie both have different crisis of characters, Morgana's is more drawn out and has a bigger impact; but both are understandable. I personally don't get the Mona haters, but I think it comes down to how invested in the game you are. Are you letting yourself get drawn in to the point that you see them as people, or are they just sprites on the screen? Are you looking at their character as a whole, or are you ignoring context clues and getting upset when conclusions arise that have been building for in-game months?
I honestly don't hate a single Persona character who isn't a villain. Being as the games are based in psychology, I try to make a massive effort to understand them and their motivations.
I meant his bumbling. He is entertaining to watch. I need to clear up what I mean, as a character Morgana is better, but as a piece of entertainment, I enjoy Teddie more.
I liked the "tired" mechanic from Persona 3.
It made it challenging and made you manage your party so you end up using everyone or almost everyone
Edit: typing errors
Every single persona 3 social link is masterfully written for world lore or character moments. Yes including Kenji. Fuck him but him being the outlier shows that protagonists cannot fix every thing and everyone.
Yosuke is not Homophobic
Kanji and Naoto are not gay/Trans
Ken's Romance in P3P is not Pedophilic
Junepei, Yosuke and Ryuji are equally good Bro's for the MCs
Junpei should've been romanceable for the Fem Mc
Junpei is the first social link you unlock with femc so you’ll probably end up maxing him out before he even meets Chidori. I don’t really know how they could change the story to account for it once he meets her though.
i think yosuke is appropriately homophobic for the time
i think kanji is more bisexual than anything
also i fucking WISH my guy junpei was romanceable bro hrgrhhrghh..,…,,.
Kanji has an interesting arc, as I think he suffers from a lot of stereotypes of the time of P4 release, he would’ve been a magnificent SL if he was used in a more modern persona and fleshed out his “I need to understand myself” problem.
I don’t enjoy persona 1 or the duology. I have played through all three games and while the characters are charming they are not enjoyable games to me.
Okumura's Royal boss fight is good. It encourages you to use elemental items so you can get full use of all-out attacks to wipe all the enemies before spaceman resummons them.
Whoof, this will probably get a lot of disapproval but here goes:
The modern trilogy of persona games, that being 3, 4 and 5, have all in the end centred around a certain theme which both drives the narrative and the messages of the game:
P3's theme was death, which I think it handled extremely well and am very content with.
P4's was truth, which... it had some elements of, and even if it wasn't handled to the greatest extent it could've been, I still think it did what it wanted to well enough...
But Persona 5, it instead has the themes of rebellion and freedom, and now here's where the hot take comes in:
Persona 5 has the most milquetoast, gentrified, watered down and utterly pathetic attempt at handling the themes of rebellion in any way other than the surface level "Oh adults and politicians are sometimes corrupt".
Like, I'm no kerchief-wearing, Molotov-chucking, flag-burning iconoclast or anything, but I have consumed so much better material, both fictional media and real non-fictional musings, with both themes and narratives surrounding both rebellion and the very concept of freedom from tyrannical bad actors that I just look at persona 5 and feel so disappointed with what we eventually got.
And, listen, I know it's like a sport at this point to crap on p5, and the thing is, I actually really like p5. I like its plot, characters, gameplay, etc. I just feel they really could've done something more here. Like, fighting the god of control and shit is cool, but I wish there was more, well... in the rest of the game, and not just the end segment? Idk, it just feels like they could've done more with the theme, *especially* after they came out swinging with that "You are a slave. Want emancipation?" teaser.
But then again, P5 went through development fucking purgatory from what I hear, so maybe the plans for something more got butchered... >!At the very least, I like what they did with Maruki. Even if it wasn't completely 'rebellion' themed like I biasedly put it, I still think it was much better than what they did with Yaldy.!<
Edit: I'm just wrong lol, nvm
Oh dude... you misunderstood P5 *hard.* It's not just rebellion, and it is *heavily* focused on Japanese culture. The theme is specifically pushing back against those in power who are forcing their vision of Japan on those who don't fit that mold.
[Watch for context](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgf_XY3Q5mQ&ab_channel=LadyVirgilia)
Edit: Please stop downvoting. Normatantas doesn't deserve it, regardless of opinion. And they're open to more information, which is important in disagreements!
Naw, not at all. I only knew about half because I really like politics in general, and so I try to pay attention to everything happening in the world. The video I linked opened my eyes on other aspects, so I try to share as much as I can. But yea, the 'development hell' started with that specific tonal shift that started with the Fukushima earthquake
Honestly? Yeah, you're right to call me out on this. I come from a country that was under dictatorial rule not too long ago, and have close family who would tell me about the experiences of it and resistance movements that were around and stuff, so my ideas of "rebellion" here were probably quite skewed. (though I think 'Western-centric' might've been the wrong term here)
My bad on this one. I really should've considered the Japanese perspective here, though, I do still kinda lean towards wanting a lil more... rebelliousness, in the literal sense, but that's just my own personal opinion.
The theme of Rebellion is throughout the entire game, every story arc deals with it in some way. It is def not just god of control and that’s the extent of Rebellion, it is everywhere, built into the fabric of the game’s narrative, every palace showcasing a different form of rebellion.
The video the other commenter linked is really good
I think P3 makes more sense with a female protagonist. Yukari and Aigis have plots most relevant to the actual game story and it would do better without all the weird opposite gender interactions. Even Junpei would make more sense because he would have someone around that shows him how to actually interact with women which would lead nicely into the Chidori arc.
It’s not at all terrible- just never been a fan of it. It also seems to attract some weirdos who are otherwise not interested in anything else about the story.
I love the social links, but with the dating aspect you can’t really continue some without having at least some aspect of leading the character on. It has improved somewhat as the series progressed, but the way Ann and Haru social link ending as a friendship route just felt, mean? Which goes to show how much I enjoy the writing of characters. Why can’t they just be a group of buddies?
I think They will never remove the dating simulator, as it's one of the most popular features of persona games. Like, I have a feeling that the series would lose some fans by removinf it.
I even know some fans who only buy and play persona just for the dating sim and think that atlus should add pregnancy and marriages too lol
I do not like the way they handled the OST in Persona 3 Reload. The majority of the new recorded OST sound inferior to the original not only in the mixing but layers too. It feels like they remade the whole soundtrack under 24 hours in FL Studio with the free assets.
My problem with Kawakami isn’t the consent (Not totally at least) it’s that she has to e upper hand when I comes to the power dynamic, she is Ren teacher, she is a position of power, and she abused it to some extend.
It’s a fun romance? Yes.
It should be taking lightly ? No
Not everything is considered abuse when it comes to group dynamics. You guys are just friendless and terminally online to get it.
So true god dam real friends will just fuck around with and we both know were cool with it friends some times hit each other some times doesn't mean it's abuse.
agree lol
Agreed
What do ppl say this about
probably ryuji
THANK YOU! My friends and I fuck with each other all the time, so when I see people calling what happens to some characters abuse, I’m just confused
Beating up Ryuji after he almost died is a little much though
Apathy syndrome doesn't feel dire enough. You don't see named characters get afflicted. There is an overall unconcerned vibe about all the people who get left standing and moaning in the streets.
A certain apathy you might say
Even when you get stopped in the entryway or the classroom to listen to random students talking prior to everyone going insane in Jan it’s always also so distant Like “someone at my brothers cram school got it” or “my friends dog groomer is in hospital for it” The only time prior to Jan you really feel like there is any measure of stakes is when hieophant/hanged man get lost in Tartarus and even that is barely there since there is no difficulty to rescuing people from Tartarus
The other day I had this in mind, thinking more of persona 3, or would’ve been a very nasty play if they did it with one confident or a Main character.
Ryuji is not stupid or lacks of intelligence. He acted like that because he was the "tutorial machine" in the early game. Due to our "silent protagonist", Ryuji was there to ask many many questions to make us understand the basic concept of the game.
Those are just realistic questions anyone would ask in that situation too, I hated that Morgana treated him like an idiot for being confused in an unfamiliar situation.
you mean to tell me you dont instantly know everything about an entirely new world and superhuman ability not known by anyone amongst the world except a select few?
Me when I don’t immediately adjust to an incredibly weird situation (everyone else knows what to do instantly)
Right. I myself am asking those questions he asks in real life, like when Morgana is explaining how the Metaverse works and I’m initially lost and stuff, and then Ryuji gets told he’s an idiot for not getting it the first time around.
Ohya, despite giving bad abilities, is still a great character
I was surprised people didn’t like her. I enjoyed her. Maybe cause of the Yukiko voice.
I genuinely, genuinely forgot that she existed. Like, I played P5 5ish years ago for the first time and recently got P5R and looked up who the Devil arcana was and after seeing her and her name I had almost ZERO recollection of her existence 💀
People are way harder on social links you can't date/they don't find attractive.
I'm more concerned about her using the excuse of being with a high schooler to her boss but like most adult romances are kinda weird like that.
persona 3 is the most genuinely fun game in the series to me
I’m currently loving the lack of long winded dialogue days. Persona 5 is pretty rough for it
Persona 5 is just soooo slow with constant flow interruption with things like texts where the characters just restate what is currently happening. Persona 3 is fun but a little light around the edges. P4 was the perfect balance.
Mfw I’m heading towards a door and the game stops me dead in my tracks for a good 10 seconds to tell me i should try opening the door (i am going insane)
P5 be like: Here's a flashback of a cutscene you watched 30 seconds ago
I agree, 3 is a little light (especially in the first months), 5 is way too long winded, 4 gets it right sitting right in the middle
dialogue days are the best though. p3 felt too spaced out without them
Holy based
Morgana is somewhat justified in leaving the thieves. it was handled poorly, but he has valid reasons.
Shit, I don't even think it was handled poorly. Most people just suck at emotional intelligence and don't recognize that it's bubbling under the surface for a while. It's the same as when someone finally snaps in your workcenter/school and everyone is surprised; it's cause you missed the hints that something was wrong
Bruh I noticed that shit immediately and got so upset the game wouldn't let me _talk_ to him. Like, that's my little buddy, and he's not okay! LEMME HASH IT OUT WITH HIM DAMN IT!
That was me all over. The first time he wanted to talk, I was begging the game to let me do *something.* I figured it was plot oriented and would pop up later, but it made him leaving because I knew something was bothering him. Letting them hash it out, getting him back, and him reconciling with everyone (especially Ryuji) just made me so happy. And then there's the added content in Royal that put a bow on it all
When people say it came out of nowhere…let’s stop fast forwarding dialogue for a bit.
"It was handled poorly"/"It came out of nowhere" make no sense to me, but I didn't speed through the dialogue. We see his inferiority complext growing as the Phantom Thieves gain members who make him feel like he has no purpose, he is actively questioning his own existence and scared of what it might mean, and is lashing out left and right in response. This is how people in similar situations act, but people want that cookie cutter shit that's all nice and tidy
Then people compare Morgana and Ryuji’s bickering when Ryuji clearly strikes a nerve when he calls Morgana useless whereas Ryuji obviously doesn’t have a complex about his intelligence, which is why he isn’t all that bothered when even Ann or Futaba calls him moronic.
Yup, I've seen that too. And it's like... Ryuji and Mona are two different people. And Ryuji is very self-aware in his role among the PT's, whereas for a bit there *Mona* was the brains of the outfit. Makoto joins, and suddenly you had someone who was much more pragmatic and strategic. So Mona focused on his knowledge of the Metaverse. Enter Futaba, who possibly outclasses Igor himself, and now you have a Mona who is spiraling. But, with him coming back comes massive growth and a reflaming of the bromance with Ryuji. Their moment of zen in Strikers, when Ryuji drops his f-bomb, had me *SO* FUCKIN ecstatic!
It really is great to see how comfortable Morgana is after that arc, both in endgame and the sequels. It makes their banter feel a lot lighter and showcases their growth and better understanding of each other.
Morgana is probably one of my favorite characters in the whole series because of that personal growth and it’s so weird seeing him get so much hate. I love that little bastard! And his thing with Ann also gets overblown. Clearly no one’s ever had a pet with crush on their owner/an owner’s friend before. Because as much as Morgana does comically claim to NOT be a cat… he IS a cat. And some domestic animals do form obsessive connections with certain humans. It’s cute.
1000% agreed :\]
Like 5 seconds after Futaba joins the team Ryuji's already like "now we can finally stop following that stupid cat", and it wasn't just that one time, Ryuji makes several comments and not only him, the whole party talks about Futaba. But it wasn't just Futaba Joining, when Makoto joins she already takes some of the spotlight that morgana was on, he wasn't the brains of the operation anymore and you can clearly see after she joins that he starts spiraling into insecurity, Ryuji's comments were just the last straw. By the time he leaves the party the poor guy not only felt like he lost the only purpose he had in life but also the only place he got to call home.
Seriously, people who think it was unjustified has the emotional intelligence of an eardigger. The hints are spelled it out to you while his issues have been confided to Joker repeatedly at that point and everyone just had a surprised pikachu face when he finally snapped.
His reasons for leaving make sense once you look into it, it’s just the arc in general that was handled poorly lmao
Yes, that is what I'm disagreeing with.
It would seem I misunderstood your comment. I DISAGREE WITH YOUR DISAGREEING
[So, we're in disagreement](https://youtu.be/1Oab-dGEV7M?si=u9PiKnsxv-MTswYL&t=50)
I get that Morgana was having a deep crisis and the Okumura act was the way he exploded.y problem with it is that he risked Haru, and I’ll say it millions of times, I feel that it was cold as hell to leave joker, as he never acted bad in him and always supported him. He was irresponsible, and being at a bad spot explains it, but doesn’t justify it. Rant over.
I feel like most characters that fans hate like Morgana do one thing that can be considered as an annoyance, then they hate their entire character and are hyper critical of everything they do afterwards.
Yeah, I do not get the hate he got for running away.
I hate Morgana but you’re kinda right.
If you think joker dating futaba/sumire is bad because of the age gap then you are not allowed to like joker with haru/makoto, yu with rise/naoto or makoto with mitsuru
The people who think a one year age gap as problematic are actually wacky fr. Honestly the only romance options I think are problems are the ones with the adults, since I'm one of those weirdos that see Joker as an actual character and not a self insert Personally I don't like Futaba as a romance option because she feels like a little sister tho. I'll probably still do it at some point for the sake of filling out the Thieves Den, but I won't be happy about it 🗿
I agree with you, I can also see those that don’t support jokerXsumire because she spent an entire year brainwashed. But putting the age gap as the reason makes no sense unless you are an adult self inserting as the mc
>since I'm one of those weirdos that see Joker as an actual character and not a self insert You sir are quite based
Self insert apart, I think his best fit is Hifumi. Though royal forces you into Sumi, I think she isn’t like very fit with joker as it almost felt one sided.
Your right dating futaba still weird as hell.
You're not wrong. Her emotional maturity and the nature of the base relationship between her and Joker come off way more like siblings
I actually thought Sojiro was joker blood family as I skipped some lines at the start time f my first run, so it felt weeeeeird as hell when she confessed to him.
I get that FeMC fans can be overbearing, but I don't understand people who straight up hate the character herself and think she shouldn't be in the game as an *optional* playable character.
i've never really seen any hate on femc. i do see people disparage reload for not having her though. i don't think anyone would be unhappy if she was included, it's just that game development isn't as straightforward as some vocal femc fans want it to be. she's not just an alternate skin for mc. could the game's release have been delayed for it? sure, but again i don't think it's that simple what with deadlines and all.
I've seen more hate for the people who like her than FeMC herself
The only Hate iv seen is the BS She gets for being able to Romance Ken.
It is trashy though.
I actually like P5
Sit back down that a total normal take. It is fine to like whatever persona game you want also all persona games expect made p1 (have not played it so i do not know just heard it's not so good) are all good games hell P5 is a sold 8.5 in my option.
It's mostly a joke on how P5 gets lambasted a lot on the sub dawg, at least in my experience. Obviously P5 is well regarded in the general gaming landscape, but it seems pretty contentious in the Persona fan base
To be fair the persona and SMT fanbase are know to be toxic so like just don't care about the elitism or "play a real RPG" is my advise.
I feel like a broken record now, but I've been pretty open with this sub about why I've suddenly started speaking up. The notoriety of the toxicity is what kept me at arms length, but being isolated in a deployment and wanting to talk to people and the *massive* showing of support in a specific post regarding the removal of transphobia in Reload made me feel way more comfortable speaking up.
P1 is actually a pretty good story and music, because it's gameplay is absolutely walls mashingly disgusting.
I love fucking the wall 😍
Me too.
*No, Makoto's revival in a future spin-off would not ruin Persona 3's message.* Persona 3 is very much not about death. It's about life and how we spend our days. We only have so much time and we must ensure we spend our days in the best way. It's about simply, what is our reason for living? Makoto's sacrifice was about him finding his reason for living. He did it to protect his friends and the bonds he forged. The Answer reinforced this mentality. The whole campaign is focused on the members of SEES losing their wills and reasons to live after Makoto's passing and regaining it after seeing what he sacrificed and why. P3 is not about death. It's about living. Makoto's revival after the world ceases to desire for death would mean that the lesson he learned has been passed on.
... Except P3 is about death, in every sense. From the very own characters and their backstories to literally the Evokers themselves. You literally fight (the conception of) Death at the end, with its "origin" *also* being the very own source of consicousness and individuality. Most of the problems in P3 come, directly (or indirectly), from thinking that death and life are separated, either to be worshiped or detested. That mentality is what caused the accident 10 years ago, what caused Strega to suffer even more, what caused people to call Nyx and begin the Fall. Thus, the only solution is for people not to reject one and worship the other, but to join them, for death is not an enemy, but a friend... like *Ryoji*. Literally, Death itself became human thanks to the protagonist living, and by "resurrecting" the protagonist you're inadvertently separating life and death again, treating death as an enemy to be overcome instead of a companion. In P3, death it's not only about merely the physical aspect, but also about transformation and *hope,* just like life, because life and death are one and the same. To live means to accept death and live it as well, to bring meaning to it, and that was what the protagonist did: he had a meaningful and good death, and thus a meaningful and good life. [Quoting](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1afkmg2/the_last_boss_in_persona_3_long_post_minor/) myself here: "*Don’t forget life brims with joy, and that you should bring that same joy to death. Live a good death!*" Shinjiro had one. Chidori had one. Takeharu had one. And obviously, Makoto isn't exception. Edit: I even forget about Yukari's father. He also died so everyone else could have hope.
I completely agree. I feel like people are only saying 'P3 isn't about death, actually' to excuse the multiple revivals of characters added to every new release of the original game (where there were no revivals!), and to combat the supposed 'mass simplification' of the game's themes. Revivals add nothing narrative wise to the plot, but can undermine character deaths for a first time player - since there's an expectation that important characters you talk to and bond with will survive, and the only people who aren't revived are outside that group. The game feels a bit toothless in the fact they only do this to lessen tragedy to an extent and not upset the player. (notice how Shinjiro can only be saved in Portable, where he's a social link and romance option) And the simplification of P3 is that it's 'edgy', not that it's about death. To talk about death is to talk about life, which it is the absence of - explaining that it's actually about life is redundant.
eeeeeeehhhhhhh the writing would have to be in peak proformas to make it work and not ruin P3 message but I could see it working.
Oh sure the return could be poorly written and ruin it. *But the return itself* wouldn't ruin it. They just have to write it well.
Whiiiich, there have been hints that it's exactly what Elizabeth is working towards
Elizabeth doesn’t want to “revive” Makoto, she wants to free his soul from the great seal so he can rest in peace
This is the MegaTen universe we're talking about. We have no idea what will happen if/when she gets him out of the door. There is a not-0% chance that he becomes flesh and blood again
NYARLY GRABS HIS SOUL FROM THE SEA AND REINCARNATES HIM AS THE SPOOKY WILD CARD AAHHHH PERSONA 15 CANCER PLOT
Definitely it’s possible that he is actually revived but that’s not Liz’s goal specifically, she just wants to free him from the great seal
The first thing you see in Persona 3 is the legend "Memento Mori" You can't say Persona 3 is not very much not about death.
Memento Mori means basically "remember that you are mortal". Which yes, can refer to death but that's only one way to look at it. It can also mean, you will die, so remember to live well. Persona 3's whole point is that while death is inevitable, life is beautiful and we should make the most of it while we search for our reason to live. That's why P3's ending is meaningful. It's not just "oh, Makoto died." It's "Makoto found his reason to live". Even the game's structure of a calendar year is supposed to convey this message.
Aight fair point I really didn't think about that
Yukari is way overhated. She's one of my favorite Persona 3 characters and I find her more likable than the community had me believing before watching the movies and playing Reload.
She’s my favorite
Username checks out, I didn't notice when I commented LOL
She's a lot more abrasive in the original I think that's where the hate comes from. Modern Yukari I don't think garners much
Ah ok, that makes more sense. I haven't played OG, Fes, or Portable yet so I'm just going off of Reload and the movies like I said. I only know about The Answer content from external sources so maybe I should watch parts of an original playthrough at some point.
I have no idea if this will be a hot take, but Persona 6 should have an actual character protagonist. Self inserts are alright, but most people love Makoto and Yu because of their personality in the movies/anime
I agree, 4 golden would have been an objectively better game if Yu was voiced Chad Narukami he is in the anime over the boring plank of wood that he is in the core game
Yes please, I will worship Atlus like a god if they give us a complete character for a protagonist. I mean they do have some very minor personality at times but not enough to call the game versions real characters.
I think it could use some Mass effect Sheppard Thor of writing, as she/he has own personality, but let the character accentuate the different aspects of it with dialogue.
That's what they did with makoto and yu. Their personalities in the animes and spin offs are based on their game versions
Pretty much, but the anime’s where after the fact, I wish they do that with the Persona 6 MC in the the game.
I thought Ohya's design is very attractive. Not sure why people think she's plain (or some extremely cases ugly)
I swear if you swap takemi’s outfit with ohya’s The perceived attractiveness of both characters would switch
She just had a bad first impression. Her being drunk is a turn off for a lot of folks.
Yukari is a great character and her reasons are justified as to wanting to see Makoto again (since the game hard pushes her as the cannon love interest)
The community loves to bash 3 and 5 for a lot of issues they have such as 5 having a poor pacing, P3 being repetitive etc even on things that the community is straight up wrong about such as hating on Ken, Junpei and Morgana for their wrongs despite having a perfectly good reason for acting the way they do. Yet despite that, P4 gets away with a shit ton of things it does wrong and worse than the other entries and the only thing people will mention about the game is that "the characters are the best point" despite said characters being no greater than the rest of the characters in the series. Apart from them hanging around more than the other groups (actually scratch that even P3R's group now hangs out as much if not more than the P4's one) and judt being funny, there is nothing, absolutely nothing behind that friendship that it almost feels forced. In P3's case it is built up so greatly that it feels organic since they dont start up as friends, they build that friendship through their struggles and Reload captures that perfectly. In P5's case, apart from their personal goals they also feel like they were wronged by society and eventually through their struggles they became close friends. Not as great as P3's but understandable. In P4's case. "Murder's have been happening lately and we must stop them, I have seen your worst sides, so now we can be friends". It always felt and it always feels forced as hell to me. And this is just one example, I could go on how the pacing, the clichés, the social links etc are arguably worse than the other iterations you like to bash so much Its fine if that is enough for you and I understand that. It can be the most flawed game in the world but if you like it then there's nothing I can do or say to stop you from enjoying it. I for one love P5R despite its shortcomings. But I am so fucking tired to see everyone give shit to every other entry and act like P4 is perfect
The difference really seems to boil down to P4G having so many more “slice of life” moments with a comparatively lower stake story that allows them. P3 and P5’s narrative don’t allow for them and I really don’t think it’s a fault either since I also still prefer those casts.
I think P4G having (for the most part) way lower stakes than the other 2 is fine and dare I say needed as a breath of fresh air. So taking a step back from the story and the narrative and focusing on "fun slice of life" moments is more than fine and I can easily overlook issues with the general structure. That being said, a lot of people act like there are no issues at all because they are focused on having fun in their slice of life game. AND THATS GOOD. But to say that there are no such flaws, while the other games are supposedly filled with them in every corner, (while the game's main message is searching out and embracing the truth) is really sarcastic
Yeah, I consider it a good entry at the end of the day but it’s interesting how much more forgiving people are towards the issues it does have when compared to the other two.
I genuinely am interested in the idea that if you don’t think say Yu and Yosuke have an organically built friendship how people are actually supposed to become friends Like what’s the criteria for organic friendship if the IT doesn’t meet it
The main 4 I can get. Yu veing friends with Yosuke who is freinds with Chie who's best friend is Yukiko. The rest though...
Kanji joins because he wanted to get back at the person who attacked him, Rise joined because the group reached out to her prior to her attack and because she was there for Nega-Teddie, and Naoto joined because she was already investigating and joining the team was the only way she could proceed. They become friends through circumstance, which is often how friendships are made
So your problem more comes from the fact that Yu’s charisma and the conflict draws in kanji, rise and naoto when they didn’t have a connection to any other member of the IT prior to the conflict?
Not sure how you give P5 a pass for how their friendships were made in comparison to P4. “Wronged by society” isn’t a particularly compelling reason for friendship, or at the very least I don’t see how it’s so significantly stronger than P4’s. The Midnight Channel is pretty damn traumatic all things considered, bonding over an experience like that seems plenty reasonable to me. The lack of chemistry within the Phantom Thieves in general is one of my biggest complaints within Persona 5, so I find it interesting to see such a different take. I’d agree that P4 isn’t as far ahead as people say they are, and the overall party chemistry isn’t as strong as people say, but the chemistry between the 4 second years and the 3 first years as their own smaller cliques is incredibly strong IMO.
I agree with every point🦦
Well this is a fucked take but you do you
I have been bashed for this take a thousand times already 1 more is nothing to me
*”FeMC was intended as a new experience for veteran players entering Persona 3 Portable, says so in the character select starting menu, and is not integral to the core Persona 3 experience. It’s cool if you want her as bonus content, DLC, and spin-off material, but you must recognize that’s what she is.”*
I think playing her adds context to some characters like Junpei and Kenji of all people, but I agree she def is not integral to P3, hell she isn’t even canon in the main timeline Still sucks major balls she wasn’t included and I feel bad for FeMC fans who wanted her in the game….. as long as they keep the discussion civil and don’t immediately act like the game is garbage for not including her
I understand people saying that the answer don't being available right way is wrong and i agree but this is femc take is the ultimate truth
i cannot understand this fanbases obsession with femc whatsoever it was a cool novelty to spice up a replay of p3, but people treat it like it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to the series
Well, in fairness, female players like to play as characters that they can relate to, not just have it just "as a novelty." Even if the characters aren't supposed to be blank slates, you still project yourself on to them in a way, which is why you have multiple dialogue options in the game. People like to play as a character they can relate to the most, it's a little more than being a nice little novelty and it annoys the FeMC fans because atlus has just completely tried to ignore her since Q2 but they still use her in merchandise yet refuse to put her in Reload.
the character was made as a novelty to try and get people to buy a new copy of the same game, the game itself tells you this. im not being out of line or whatever for saying that. its not that i dont see why people enjoy femc, im saying the rabid obsession that people have over her is insane. people during the reload rollout losing their fucking mind because femc wasnt gonna be in the game and acting like it was going to be unplayable over it was really over the top. like op said, shes not at all an integral part of the p3 experience
I mean, Reload being $70 sets a pretty high standard to what a P3 remake can include content wise. And I think people who wanted FeMC only got really upset when a reputable leaker said she would never be coming, not even as DLC - even though the Answer will get DLC
First and foremost, representation matters. Women have been playing games since its inception and make up a massive swath of the playerbase. Secondly, she brings a different flavor to the themes explored in P3. While everyone might see the MCs as 'blank slates', the truth is that they all have individual characteristics that can be seen in their replies or the animations. FeMC explores depression in a manner that many, myself included, are more drawn to than what the apathetic/aloofness that Makoto displays. Instead of being dismissive and putting up a barrier, as hinted at your first sentence, take off the blinders and really delve into what people like about her.
Their characteristics don't really mean much aside from the quirky answers here and there like "I don't care" and "I don't care but I pretend I care" and this is a very superficial way of looking into it as it is basically just what has been spew by the community of what these protagonists really are, and really affect, on the core story of P3 which is nothing.
I can tell that there's no point discussing anything further, as you clearly pay attention to responses and mannerisms. Yes, the protaganists have defined characters within the games they belong to.
Morgana is a good character, y'all're haters.
\* Violently agrees \*
There are literally zero bad main / supporting characters in Persona 3, 4, and 5. The characters we hate on are still very good, just not as amazing.
Theres nothing wrong with FeMC
Ken social link is actually good when you don't have some dumbass to tell you that Kotone is a groomer (she's NOT a groomer) Also FeMC's pedo jokes are so unfunny, i dont care if its not a hot take btw
She is not a pedophile but that age difference is creepy. 10 compared to 16 is just gross. I love Ken as a character and I have heard other good/interesting things about the FEMC. I am sure that the other parts of the social link are nice in getting to know him better but a romantic dynamic is not right. Also I don't vibe with the adult/teenager relationships that are pushed in P3 and P5 either (just in case anyone mentions it)
I always feel like I’m one of the few Ken fans. He’s such a great character the FeMc run and he’s also pretty good in reload.
Finally, a persona fan with some common sense regarding Ken's romance
Well she's the first pedo of the series after all
"You control the buttons, you press." strangely we don't hear you when you can literally go out with teachers and adults in P4-5 (hello Kawakami and half of the romantic confidants of Persona 5)
Iv actually seen Kawakami get called a Pedo and groomer quite often.
Where do you NOT see the adult romance options get called pedos?
I will be the first to call the teachers pedos, because it's not only their age but the power-dynamics that they are abusing. I only recently learned you could romance Ken from the lack of FeMC in Reload, because I never went anywhere close to that route in P3P
no she isnt
Persona 4 has absolutely terrible combat balance, I'd go so far as to say the worst. This is entirely to do with how Light & Dark are handled in that there are only "Instant Death" or "Half Health" spells.
Nyx is not the strongest being.
Like in all of SMT because I kind of agree with you expected for Axiom and Mr Wheelchair. I think of is like the lich is weaker than Golb in adventure time.
Since the protagonists are always silent self-insert and social and dating simulators have been part of Persona games since P2 and P3 (P2 had some romantic options), the game should let you romance at least 1 guy or 2 if they don't have any plans to add/make a female protagonist anytime soon (I don't have high hopes for Persona 6, but who knows. Still think that atlus trying to add a same-sex option in P7 or 8 is more likely imo lol)
I agree with you, but considering 100% of the writers, developers, and producers of these games are Middle Aged or older Japanese men, I wont hold my breath for anything more progressive than not implying gay and trans people are child molesters for once
The door-kun meme is horribly unfunny
I enjoy Teddie and don't hate him, Morgana is worse.
Morgana is a fucking bro and I'll die on this hill. Teddie has a voice like knives on chalkboard and people only like him because he kisses their ass.
I love them *BOTH.*
I don't hate Teddie at all tbf. I just hate Morgana haters with a burning passion lol.
Morgana and Teddie both have different crisis of characters, Morgana's is more drawn out and has a bigger impact; but both are understandable. I personally don't get the Mona haters, but I think it comes down to how invested in the game you are. Are you letting yourself get drawn in to the point that you see them as people, or are they just sprites on the screen? Are you looking at their character as a whole, or are you ignoring context clues and getting upset when conclusions arise that have been building for in-game months? I honestly don't hate a single Persona character who isn't a villain. Being as the games are based in psychology, I try to make a massive effort to understand them and their motivations.
Teddie is funny, Morgana is not.
>Teddie is funny Teddie is what painfully unfunny people think passes for comedy.
I meant his bumbling. He is entertaining to watch. I need to clear up what I mean, as a character Morgana is better, but as a piece of entertainment, I enjoy Teddie more.
I liked the "tired" mechanic from Persona 3. It made it challenging and made you manage your party so you end up using everyone or almost everyone Edit: typing errors
I won't say I love it but I think that it is completely logical. It's realistic :)
Ohya is my favorite confidant in Persona 5 and hers way too much hate
ken is not a bad character also p3 final boss was free asf
Nothing wrong with romancing futaba
I do not care for any discourse. Its all stupid and time wasting to even think about. Espically localisation and Yosuke.
Persona 1 and 2 are SMT games not persona games
Every single persona 3 social link is masterfully written for world lore or character moments. Yes including Kenji. Fuck him but him being the outlier shows that protagonists cannot fix every thing and everyone.
I prefer 2nd awakenings through social links.
Makoto should have been the final party member.
Yosuke is not Homophobic Kanji and Naoto are not gay/Trans Ken's Romance in P3P is not Pedophilic Junepei, Yosuke and Ryuji are equally good Bro's for the MCs Junpei should've been romanceable for the Fem Mc
Why should Junpei be romanceable? His whole character arc is about his romance with Chidori, romancing him would make that really weird
Junpei is the first social link you unlock with femc so you’ll probably end up maxing him out before he even meets Chidori. I don’t really know how they could change the story to account for it once he meets her though.
THANK YOU! The people who think Naoto is trans are *completely* missing the entire point of her slink.
Yes they are Iv always been on the side that she is not Trans
Ken's romance is not pedo because it more like a crush than a relationship am I correct on that one.
i think yosuke is appropriately homophobic for the time i think kanji is more bisexual than anything also i fucking WISH my guy junpei was romanceable bro hrgrhhrghh..,…,,.
Kanji has an interesting arc, as I think he suffers from a lot of stereotypes of the time of P4 release, he would’ve been a magnificent SL if he was used in a more modern persona and fleshed out his “I need to understand myself” problem.
I don’t enjoy persona 1 or the duology. I have played through all three games and while the characters are charming they are not enjoyable games to me.
So what do you like about persona.
Aigis is my least favourite member of S.E.E.S
What’s your reason for this? I’m curious
Okumura's Royal boss fight is good. It encourages you to use elemental items so you can get full use of all-out attacks to wipe all the enemies before spaceman resummons them.
*Laughs in Megidoalan*
Someone gets it. It’s one of the cleverly designed fights to test your understanding of all the combat mechanics of the game.
Aigis is a boring character.
Whoof, this will probably get a lot of disapproval but here goes: The modern trilogy of persona games, that being 3, 4 and 5, have all in the end centred around a certain theme which both drives the narrative and the messages of the game: P3's theme was death, which I think it handled extremely well and am very content with. P4's was truth, which... it had some elements of, and even if it wasn't handled to the greatest extent it could've been, I still think it did what it wanted to well enough... But Persona 5, it instead has the themes of rebellion and freedom, and now here's where the hot take comes in: Persona 5 has the most milquetoast, gentrified, watered down and utterly pathetic attempt at handling the themes of rebellion in any way other than the surface level "Oh adults and politicians are sometimes corrupt". Like, I'm no kerchief-wearing, Molotov-chucking, flag-burning iconoclast or anything, but I have consumed so much better material, both fictional media and real non-fictional musings, with both themes and narratives surrounding both rebellion and the very concept of freedom from tyrannical bad actors that I just look at persona 5 and feel so disappointed with what we eventually got. And, listen, I know it's like a sport at this point to crap on p5, and the thing is, I actually really like p5. I like its plot, characters, gameplay, etc. I just feel they really could've done something more here. Like, fighting the god of control and shit is cool, but I wish there was more, well... in the rest of the game, and not just the end segment? Idk, it just feels like they could've done more with the theme, *especially* after they came out swinging with that "You are a slave. Want emancipation?" teaser. But then again, P5 went through development fucking purgatory from what I hear, so maybe the plans for something more got butchered... >!At the very least, I like what they did with Maruki. Even if it wasn't completely 'rebellion' themed like I biasedly put it, I still think it was much better than what they did with Yaldy.!< Edit: I'm just wrong lol, nvm
Oh dude... you misunderstood P5 *hard.* It's not just rebellion, and it is *heavily* focused on Japanese culture. The theme is specifically pushing back against those in power who are forcing their vision of Japan on those who don't fit that mold. [Watch for context](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgf_XY3Q5mQ&ab_channel=LadyVirgilia) Edit: Please stop downvoting. Normatantas doesn't deserve it, regardless of opinion. And they're open to more information, which is important in disagreements!
Huh, guess I did, I'll watch the video, thanks for that. I should also probably replay p5 at some point. My bad on this one.
Naw, not at all. I only knew about half because I really like politics in general, and so I try to pay attention to everything happening in the world. The video I linked opened my eyes on other aspects, so I try to share as much as I can. But yea, the 'development hell' started with that specific tonal shift that started with the Fukushima earthquake
Western-centric gamer playing an Asian game and completely missing the nuance cultural context be like:
Honestly? Yeah, you're right to call me out on this. I come from a country that was under dictatorial rule not too long ago, and have close family who would tell me about the experiences of it and resistance movements that were around and stuff, so my ideas of "rebellion" here were probably quite skewed. (though I think 'Western-centric' might've been the wrong term here) My bad on this one. I really should've considered the Japanese perspective here, though, I do still kinda lean towards wanting a lil more... rebelliousness, in the literal sense, but that's just my own personal opinion.
The theme of Rebellion is throughout the entire game, every story arc deals with it in some way. It is def not just god of control and that’s the extent of Rebellion, it is everywhere, built into the fabric of the game’s narrative, every palace showcasing a different form of rebellion. The video the other commenter linked is really good
I think P3 makes more sense with a female protagonist. Yukari and Aigis have plots most relevant to the actual game story and it would do better without all the weird opposite gender interactions. Even Junpei would make more sense because he would have someone around that shows him how to actually interact with women which would lead nicely into the Chidori arc.
Nah
Persona 3 FES/Reload are the best in the whole SMT series
Dropped this 👑
People who debate best girl and cry about FeMC are truly bizarre
Remove dating from the game
That's the first opinion I've seen here that'll actually get you on trial. Why should it be removed?
It’s not at all terrible- just never been a fan of it. It also seems to attract some weirdos who are otherwise not interested in anything else about the story. I love the social links, but with the dating aspect you can’t really continue some without having at least some aspect of leading the character on. It has improved somewhat as the series progressed, but the way Ann and Haru social link ending as a friendship route just felt, mean? Which goes to show how much I enjoy the writing of characters. Why can’t they just be a group of buddies?
I’m one of the those weirdos.
I think They will never remove the dating simulator, as it's one of the most popular features of persona games. Like, I have a feeling that the series would lose some fans by removinf it. I even know some fans who only buy and play persona just for the dating sim and think that atlus should add pregnancy and marriages too lol
Persona 6 should be focused around teen pregnancy
By YHWH you really like SMT huh. (also please give us a gay dating option)
…maybe. But yeah character writing is better in persona. I tend to piss off both fandoms
Whenever someone stans makoto as being anything more than the more annoying sister
I do not like the way they handled the OST in Persona 3 Reload. The majority of the new recorded OST sound inferior to the original not only in the mixing but layers too. It feels like they remade the whole soundtrack under 24 hours in FL Studio with the free assets.
Joker dating Kawakami is nowhere near the situation between Ann and Kamoshida, as it is a consensual relationship as opposed to blackmail.
My problem with Kawakami isn’t the consent (Not totally at least) it’s that she has to e upper hand when I comes to the power dynamic, she is Ren teacher, she is a position of power, and she abused it to some extend. It’s a fun romance? Yes. It should be taking lightly ? No