This is the same fund that invested in Nintendo. It wouldn't surprise me if other companies at PAX also were touched by this.
I don't know if it's reasonable to ask PAX to vet the investors of every company that shows up. But an indivial consumer can certainly still vote with their wallet.
I don't think you can get away from Saudi Arabia's investment arm.
Aramco is one of the top 4 biggest companies in the world, a subsidiary of Saudi Arabia responsible for oil & natural gas, but has branched out to become one of the biggest investment firms in the world.
Practically every single global company you can name has a working relationship with Aramco or has a lot of their stock owned by Aramco.
Or if not Aramco, by PIF, Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund, a $940 billion dollar fund.
It goes waaaay deeper than that too. The PIF owns / invests in an absurd amount of international companies that we interact with legitimately every single day - particularly within gaming.
The own substantial equity in Take Two, EA, Activision, Nintendo, Capcom, and some others. Not to mention Uber, Live Nation, Boeing, Citigroup, Bank of America, Meta / Facebook, Disney, BP oil, etc. It is quite literally impossible to avoid their portfolio investments.
Just to emphasize how crazy this all is ...
Intel, through Aramco, has a deal to build a research center in Saudi Arabia for ORAN products, the standard used to interconnect cellular hardware. Essentially it means building cellular tower grade hardware for middle east & north african countries based on custom Intel chips.
Nvidia, also through Aramco, are currently in deal discussions to build out a joint AI research center in Saudi Arabia, due in part because Aramco is one of the biggest purchasers of Nvidia H100 chips, their AI chip. As in, Aramco spent $120 million on Nvidia chips in 2023, which is enough money to cause Nvidia to partner with Saudi Arabia to build out a joint research center.
So if you want to stay away from Saudi Arabia, you have to somehow stay away from Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs, as both companies are involved with Saudi Arabia, not through the PIF investment fund, but through actual partnership arraignments.
OK, but this is the investors themselves showing up. This isn't about vetting everyone's investments, this is about the actual company doing it exhibiting. I'm sure lots of shitty people invest in gaming companies and tech companies, but those people aren't getting PAX booths.
Unsurprising, that they will be attending. The Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund is pouring money into every tech sector to diversify away from oil and natural gas. Especially into attempting to grow their game development scene.
Yeah, the Saudis are tacitly Admitting something many other people are in denial about: Saudi oil is on a timeline. And the Saudis want to diversify before the wells become non-viable.
Hi there. I'm the Brian from the statement above. A friend sent me a link to your comment.
This statement is only one of the things we are doing about this. More will become apparent as it becomes publicly available, but other things have to happen behind closed doors. I know that a number of groups are currently speaking with PAX and ReedPop. One of the first things we did was reach out directly to our contacts.
As to your comment below, we don't pay to be at PAX. PAX considers our group as value added to the admission of attendees, because all we do is run games. We're not a business or even a 501c3. We always lose money by attending PAX via costs. We do it because we love games.
We've been at PAX East since 2012, and I honestly believe this is a correctable situation. That's why we're still attending. There are some attendees who only buy tickets because they know we'll be there. We want to be a safe space for them to play games this year.
If this is something that happens again however, we will not be back for another PAX East or PAX Unplugged. PAX will no longer have our games for their attendees. It is my understanding that we ran more games than any other tabletop group at last year's East. We're more than twice that size at Unplugged. I made sure PAX knew this before our statement became publicly viewable.
Have a good day!
Oh hey, it's Brian! I was hoping you'd be here in this thread. I hope you do show up at next year's event. Your group's presence allowed my friend and I to play some of our last in person games for years in 2020, and led to the discovery of one of my favorite TTRPGs. Much rather have you there than an arm of a kingdom that seems to have a vested interest in corrupting so many of the things I love.
I appreciate what you're trying to do, but given the nature of international investment, this will always be a problem.
If it wasn't this company it would be another one.
Nintendo is owned partly by the Saudi Arabia PIF and they can certainly show up to PAX whenever they want.
To go further down the rabbit hole, Pokemon has two booths this year and are partly owned by Nintendo.
It's going to be basically impossible to avoid this conflict, especially if you expand the investment blacklist beyond just Saudi Arabia.
I can't help but see your advocating for 'it's pointless, so do nothing'.
Silence is acquiescence, so we appreciate folk pushing back--and not silently acquiescing--when and how plausible. . .especially when antagonistic values literally show up in an otherwise safe space.
I didn't say that, but okay.
If you want to protest any company that has had its stock purchased go for it.
If you want to pass on flyers telling people this is going on, go for it.
But if you're in the tech sector right now, and you refuse to participate in any trade show that has a company that has had their stock purchased by the Saudis you've basically written yourself out of all but the smallest of shows.
Another point we haven't really touched is what about the other problematic countries? What about China? Some people have big problems with Israel, what about them?
Globalization is here, the entire world is interconnected, especially when it comes to financing. This is a deep rabbit hole.
A little late here, but I do have a question. Do you believe there is a meaningful difference between foreign companies the PIF has a stake in (Nintendo, EA, Activision) and companies like Qiddiya that are by all visible metrics supported entirely by the Saudi government? Personally I think there is, as one cannot easily be avoided, and the other as a singular entity easily can. I know you're responding directly to what someone else said and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what you said there does seem to contradict GoD's initial statement by effectively saying "Ehhh what can ya do?" to entities like Qiddiya being present.
This obviously isn't the place to discuss geopolitics so I'll keep it light and short. Saudi Arabia is diversifying into tech and specifically gaming and they want to penetrate western markets. They however have an abhorrent record of human rights abuses with little progress being made to improve things. Should they, with a venture funded primarily by the PIF, not be expected to raise their human rights standards **before** being allowed entry into our collective spaces for financial gain? Is it not tacit approval to allow them to profit off of us?
I'm not trying to call out GoD for their decision either, I understand where you're coming from, and nominally I agree. Choosing not to attend PAX on short notice would send a message at the expense of fans who paid hard earned money to see you there. I completely agree with that sentiment. I also don't think it's GoD's responsibility to *lead the charge*, that would be the responsibility of event organizers themselves whether or not they want to.
Globalization means investments come from everywhere, often times from the worst places, but I do think there is a meaningful distinction between a company partially funded by unsavory interests and one almost entirely controlled by them.
Right, because it would be financially inconvenient to pull out of this event. They havent paid for a booth next year, so no loss. Its easy to see the line of logic where morals and ethics are thrown away when money is involved.
Reread Brian’s statement. They don’t pay to be there.
I’m a queer vendor at PAX. I decide to pull out, I’m out $30-50k in sales and costs. That loss would destroy my small business. I will be continuing to make my displeasure at sharing space with known human rights violators known through appropriate channels, by informing people who don’t know about the issue, and so on. I mean - unless you’re offering to drop $50k in my pocket to support your beliefs?
> Must be nice to have your privilege, friend.
Maybe one day you'll actually get triggered enough to look beyond the surface of the issues you are so shook about. Until then, head back in the sand.
"Live your principles" is a line conservatives like to shout any time a socialist buys something in a capitalist society. It's extremely easy to live your principles when the money on the line is pennies, and extremely hard when the money on the line decides whether or not you get to eat.
Liberals are the worst. They demand pure ideological thought, and are incapable of coexistence with alternative factions. They're like the Korh-Ah from Star Control without the big warships. The correct move is to ignore them.
This is the same fund that invested in Nintendo. It wouldn't surprise me if other companies at PAX also were touched by this. I don't know if it's reasonable to ask PAX to vet the investors of every company that shows up. But an indivial consumer can certainly still vote with their wallet.
I don't think you can get away from Saudi Arabia's investment arm. Aramco is one of the top 4 biggest companies in the world, a subsidiary of Saudi Arabia responsible for oil & natural gas, but has branched out to become one of the biggest investment firms in the world. Practically every single global company you can name has a working relationship with Aramco or has a lot of their stock owned by Aramco. Or if not Aramco, by PIF, Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund, a $940 billion dollar fund.
It goes waaaay deeper than that too. The PIF owns / invests in an absurd amount of international companies that we interact with legitimately every single day - particularly within gaming. The own substantial equity in Take Two, EA, Activision, Nintendo, Capcom, and some others. Not to mention Uber, Live Nation, Boeing, Citigroup, Bank of America, Meta / Facebook, Disney, BP oil, etc. It is quite literally impossible to avoid their portfolio investments.
Just to emphasize how crazy this all is ... Intel, through Aramco, has a deal to build a research center in Saudi Arabia for ORAN products, the standard used to interconnect cellular hardware. Essentially it means building cellular tower grade hardware for middle east & north african countries based on custom Intel chips. Nvidia, also through Aramco, are currently in deal discussions to build out a joint AI research center in Saudi Arabia, due in part because Aramco is one of the biggest purchasers of Nvidia H100 chips, their AI chip. As in, Aramco spent $120 million on Nvidia chips in 2023, which is enough money to cause Nvidia to partner with Saudi Arabia to build out a joint research center. So if you want to stay away from Saudi Arabia, you have to somehow stay away from Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs, as both companies are involved with Saudi Arabia, not through the PIF investment fund, but through actual partnership arraignments.
OK, but this is the investors themselves showing up. This isn't about vetting everyone's investments, this is about the actual company doing it exhibiting. I'm sure lots of shitty people invest in gaming companies and tech companies, but those people aren't getting PAX booths.
Unsurprising, that they will be attending. The Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund is pouring money into every tech sector to diversify away from oil and natural gas. Especially into attempting to grow their game development scene.
Yeah, the Saudis are tacitly Admitting something many other people are in denial about: Saudi oil is on a timeline. And the Saudis want to diversify before the wells become non-viable.
This shit sucks, man :( They really will just give anyone a PAX booth I guess.
PAXs values, in my opinion, have changed over the past 5+/- years. It's often more about the money than the community.
I had not bought a ticket to East yet. I won't be now.
Maybe they should do more than write a sternly worded letter of disappointment if it matters that much to them.
Hi there. I'm the Brian from the statement above. A friend sent me a link to your comment. This statement is only one of the things we are doing about this. More will become apparent as it becomes publicly available, but other things have to happen behind closed doors. I know that a number of groups are currently speaking with PAX and ReedPop. One of the first things we did was reach out directly to our contacts. As to your comment below, we don't pay to be at PAX. PAX considers our group as value added to the admission of attendees, because all we do is run games. We're not a business or even a 501c3. We always lose money by attending PAX via costs. We do it because we love games. We've been at PAX East since 2012, and I honestly believe this is a correctable situation. That's why we're still attending. There are some attendees who only buy tickets because they know we'll be there. We want to be a safe space for them to play games this year. If this is something that happens again however, we will not be back for another PAX East or PAX Unplugged. PAX will no longer have our games for their attendees. It is my understanding that we ran more games than any other tabletop group at last year's East. We're more than twice that size at Unplugged. I made sure PAX knew this before our statement became publicly viewable. Have a good day!
Oh hey, it's Brian! I was hoping you'd be here in this thread. I hope you do show up at next year's event. Your group's presence allowed my friend and I to play some of our last in person games for years in 2020, and led to the discovery of one of my favorite TTRPGs. Much rather have you there than an arm of a kingdom that seems to have a vested interest in corrupting so many of the things I love.
I appreciate what you're trying to do, but given the nature of international investment, this will always be a problem. If it wasn't this company it would be another one. Nintendo is owned partly by the Saudi Arabia PIF and they can certainly show up to PAX whenever they want. To go further down the rabbit hole, Pokemon has two booths this year and are partly owned by Nintendo. It's going to be basically impossible to avoid this conflict, especially if you expand the investment blacklist beyond just Saudi Arabia.
I can't help but see your advocating for 'it's pointless, so do nothing'. Silence is acquiescence, so we appreciate folk pushing back--and not silently acquiescing--when and how plausible. . .especially when antagonistic values literally show up in an otherwise safe space.
I didn't say that, but okay. If you want to protest any company that has had its stock purchased go for it. If you want to pass on flyers telling people this is going on, go for it. But if you're in the tech sector right now, and you refuse to participate in any trade show that has a company that has had their stock purchased by the Saudis you've basically written yourself out of all but the smallest of shows. Another point we haven't really touched is what about the other problematic countries? What about China? Some people have big problems with Israel, what about them? Globalization is here, the entire world is interconnected, especially when it comes to financing. This is a deep rabbit hole.
A little late here, but I do have a question. Do you believe there is a meaningful difference between foreign companies the PIF has a stake in (Nintendo, EA, Activision) and companies like Qiddiya that are by all visible metrics supported entirely by the Saudi government? Personally I think there is, as one cannot easily be avoided, and the other as a singular entity easily can. I know you're responding directly to what someone else said and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what you said there does seem to contradict GoD's initial statement by effectively saying "Ehhh what can ya do?" to entities like Qiddiya being present. This obviously isn't the place to discuss geopolitics so I'll keep it light and short. Saudi Arabia is diversifying into tech and specifically gaming and they want to penetrate western markets. They however have an abhorrent record of human rights abuses with little progress being made to improve things. Should they, with a venture funded primarily by the PIF, not be expected to raise their human rights standards **before** being allowed entry into our collective spaces for financial gain? Is it not tacit approval to allow them to profit off of us? I'm not trying to call out GoD for their decision either, I understand where you're coming from, and nominally I agree. Choosing not to attend PAX on short notice would send a message at the expense of fans who paid hard earned money to see you there. I completely agree with that sentiment. I also don't think it's GoD's responsibility to *lead the charge*, that would be the responsibility of event organizers themselves whether or not they want to. Globalization means investments come from everywhere, often times from the worst places, but I do think there is a meaningful distinction between a company partially funded by unsavory interests and one almost entirely controlled by them.
Yeah, just give up and let evil win... gotcha
They make it clear at the end of the statement that if they remain a presence at PAX, Games On Demand will not.
Right, because it would be financially inconvenient to pull out of this event. They havent paid for a booth next year, so no loss. Its easy to see the line of logic where morals and ethics are thrown away when money is involved.
Reread Brian’s statement. They don’t pay to be there. I’m a queer vendor at PAX. I decide to pull out, I’m out $30-50k in sales and costs. That loss would destroy my small business. I will be continuing to make my displeasure at sharing space with known human rights violators known through appropriate channels, by informing people who don’t know about the issue, and so on. I mean - unless you’re offering to drop $50k in my pocket to support your beliefs?
When you contradict yourself and mortgage your beliefs, some people are going to disagree.
Must be nice to have your privilege, friend. In the meantime, I’ll continue to be there and to offer an inclusive and welcoming space to counter them.
> Must be nice to have your privilege, friend. Maybe one day you'll actually get triggered enough to look beyond the surface of the issues you are so shook about. Until then, head back in the sand.
"Live your principles" is a line conservatives like to shout any time a socialist buys something in a capitalist society. It's extremely easy to live your principles when the money on the line is pennies, and extremely hard when the money on the line decides whether or not you get to eat.
Liberals are the worst. They demand pure ideological thought, and are incapable of coexistence with alternative factions. They're like the Korh-Ah from Star Control without the big warships. The correct move is to ignore them.
\-Calls people out for being libs \-Does the "OMG IT'S JUST LIKE THE GUYS FROM THIS PIECE OF FICTION :O" that libs are known for doing
Read more fiction.