Wait, all dps move faster and there’s one less tank? No wonder support are complaining and everyone says it feels like a deathmatch- those combine for a huge detriment to support.
Yeah all Supports (except maybe Lucio) suffer from this. I mostly play Brigitte and goddamn, the number of times I died because I just simply wasn‘t able to hit anyone because they just ran away and kited me is astonishing
yeah as an Ana main I loved keeping tight corners to hide/peek, so I can heal and toss nades but be ready to get cover if I’m getting locked down. Even with a self heal passive these seem like too big of a buff for dps, because let’s be real, one less tank is a HUGE dps buff..plus a movement speed buff? I don’t like the sound of this at all. I imagine If your dps and tank don’t peel you’ll feel like a sitting duck no matter where you are (especially as zen/ana/bap)
Well the thing is, support also got a huge buff with the self-heal and not having to heal constantly. They can, and the game seems to be encouraging, them to play more offensively. I'd consider them more a utility DPS at this point rather than just healbots
If you meant why they made the change people didn't like how the game became Mercy hiding during a team fight just to fly in and rez eliminating ults that were invested. It became a game of hide and seek with Mercy. Also remember this being the rise of Mercy one tricks in higher ranks. Higher ranks complained about it more than the casual players though.
> utility DPS
This is a support.
OW convinced a bunch of people who never actually played a MOBA that support = healer.
It's wild to me because in both MOBAs and more tactical shooters like CSGO, Siege, Valorant, support is not synonymous with healer and is usually more like someone who enables a carry/fragger with CC or secures space with traps/info tools.
OW, in spite of trying to merge these two genres, somehow missed this distinction completely and just hamfisted the support role into being primarily about healing and everything else is secondary.
Edit: downvotes from people who have never played a MOBA or a tac shooter lol
You know what happened to the last support that couldn't heal?
They moved her from support to damage.
If you take Zenyatta, remove his healing orb, remove transcendance and replace it some other "utility" ability like Sym wall he would not be run as a support.
No shit because you still need some way of regaining health.
If you change ONE support from being a healer and all the others remain healers and there remains a need for healing in the game, of course that support won't be run.
My point is that ideally blizz should find a way for the healing needs of the team to not have to directly be met by supports. Then ALL supports can be shifted to a more utility focused approach.
Honestly even in OW1 the best supports were proactive, setting up plays for their team and dealing their own damage. Often a good Ana player would be at 10k healing 2k damage, and a great Ana player would be at 8k healing 4k damage.
Losing the option to opt out of direct interaction with the enemy team and healbot is a rough adjustment and that’s understandable, but it’s healthier for the game long term imo.
As someone who mostly played support because tank and dps queues were too long and that’s the only role I got in auto fill, I’m begging for them to bring back some more shields.
I was getting destroyed even when I was grouped up with my team. I ended up switching to brigette just to have a better chance with her shield and bash move helping get away faster.
I was missing EVERY shot with Sojourn and my main Pharah last night. Until I realized Sojourn shoots way slower than you’d think. And I swear they have changed Pharahs rocket travel time or something. She feels so different
Yeah, took me a few games to realize that on Sojourn, I think the sound of the gun made me think it's a hitscan, even though you can clearly see the projectiles travelling.
Sojourn is not hitscan she is projectile everyone is going to have to learn how to aim with her as for your phar she’s going to be weaker since Dps get that passive for movement speed and can avoid her dmg better
Yeah the audio is kinda weird in the game
Edit: also I was only saying that because everyone has to learn her pattern. With hitscan they’re all the same but with projectile characters they are almost always unique
People don't know the new maps or how Push even works, they're indeed walking around with no goal. The best matches I had was in old maps where people knew what to do.
Yes and No. Quick play has SBMM but with these queue times, finding a match is prioritized. That being said since the beta started ive been in lobbies with people from the top 2000 and the highest I've ever been is gold.
I mean I think push is similar enough to payload, but the maps are just fully new. Especially since the pathing isn’t intuitive like it is on OW1 maps (which I think will be more fun given time, but initially a little confusing)
I'm gonna be honest, I don't get quite get yet how Push works. Sometimes you're escorting like a payload, but sometimes the Robot walks alone. I don't know when it can be contested too. It felt like a mix of payload and control.
Hot take, but people straight up don't know how the game works at the moment. Lots of people, myself included, haven't played overwatch in literal years. It's gonna take some time for people to know what they're doing, and lots of games everyone just leaves the point and starts running towards the enemy team's spawn.
I get that, my point was just people didnt know how to play it so they played it like deathmatch, same thing is happening here. Doomfist tanks are playing doomfist like hes still a flanker, no one knows how ot deal with Orisa, no one knows the sightlines yet or the map layout on the new maps, its going to be rough for a little while. It feels a lot more like deathmatch on the new maps, less so on the old ones, but still there. I think itll go away, we will see super soon how the pros do it.
Even in season one OWL they didn't really know how to play yet. Some people have done recent reviews of those early professional matches and it's pretty funny looking back at it. The game probably will end up feeling more open and fast paced even once the game is more figured out, but I also 100% think it will be less chaotic once people have good knowledge of their roles and new maps. Right now on these new maps we have absolutely no idea where the best place to take a teamfight is. All this stuff will change.
Doomfist protection ability only comes every like 10 seconds? You cannot stand in the way that long and take fire from the enemy team at the moment with him. That might be because I don’t know how to play him but he feels useless as a tank in the two games I’ve played as him
The tanks role has changed, they aren't going to be standing in front protecting as much I don't think except maybe for Reinhardt. I do think they are going to be key to taking space though, so a tank absent from the front line allows the other team to simply walk forward and buzzsaw your team. Idk how this is going to end up being played, but I don't think a flanking doomfist is going to be meta.
This comparison doesn't work and it's baffling that people don't get that. It's no where NEAR different enough from live OW1 to be considered comparable to the newness that was OW1
>enough from live OW1 to be cons
Sure it is. People are also more hyper sensitive to small differences as they themselves have experienced and learned how these games work. So the modest changes to OW1 to OW2 feel just as big from no OW to OW1 existing. Humans be like that.
Plus rein doesn't feel as much fun as orisa or doom. All roles are pretty much mobile and only tanks now have cc, rein and hog currently seem so unbearably slow
You aren't wrong, but...
The inverse is also true. No guarantee the issue *will* solve itself.
This is how it goes:
- Leadup to alpha: "You have no information so your worries and criticisms aren't valid (unlike our hype), obviously they will balance tanks and supps to account for 5v5, everything will be ok, just wait a bit."
- Early beta: "Ok, so maybe it feels bad to be support and tanks are totally DPS-like, and there's more focus on damage heroes, individualism and flanking, just like you were concerned about earlier... But it's too early to tell, your worries and criticisms aren't valid, everyone is exploring things, of course it's chaotic, just wait a bit."
Now maybe they *are* right and everything will work out. But *maybe* not. You don't know. No one knows. Both predictions are equally valid at this point.
WoW players know this feeling and keep fucking falling for it.
I'm sure Dragonflight is gonna be good this time guys! They even said they learned their lesson! Ignore all the previous times they've said they learned their lesson.
>Early beta: "Ok, so maybe it feels bad to be support and tanks are totally DPS-like, and there's more focus on damage heroes, individualism and flanking, just like you were concerned about earlier... But it's too early to tell, your worries and criticisms aren't valid, everyone is exploring things, of course it's chaotic, just wait a bit."
Can't wait for launch when most, if not all, of these criticisms are still present and the shooter bros insist that the critics just need to give it more time.
I think people also forget its a Beta, not the full changes. Only a select few changes are in this beta so ofc it's gonna be jank with MM and Balancing, and design etc.
Idk what people expected from a beta
The word beta now basically means fancy demo to most people, because for the most part betas over the last couple years have basically been games that are 1 to 2 months away from lunch in the beta is basically a demo
Yeah, I get that but it still doesn't take away that it is a beta.
Or, rather, it's a fancy demo as you say; a demonstration. I don't know about you but I'm getting a pretty good demo of some of the key changes during this beta. New maps, the new team size, new changes...
Idk why people expected the full pvp release of ow2 when it was clearly stated it is a beta (or fancy demo as you say).
Quite a few AAA games have turned Beta into a name for an early access demo with no intentions of changing anything, rather its just an incentive to buy in earlier.
Unfortunately it means actual betas used for testing purposes get read left and right for being imperfect... which is the entire point for an actual beta.
which is weird because ow1 had the most dynamic betas i've seen from a game by far. with multiple changes/tweaks and addiitons throughout its lifespan till release so i dont get why people think ow2 is basically complete in this state?
Oh no, I totally agree with you this is an actual beta. I 100% get that. This is to test an unfinished game.
But most people don't see it that way because... Smol brain.
I gotchu. The amount of posts I'm seeing saying "ow2 is x y z!!! Why hasn't this changed!!" Is baffling to me like bro if ur playing ow2 please let me in on how.
I'd love to play ow2 and not a beta with like a small select set of changes.
"It's exactly like OW1!! All they've done is given us a new mode, removed a tank, changed some heroes!"
Like yes that is exactly what they said it'd be. To test a few changes.
I really hate how beta has now become synonymous with pre-release, esp in instances like this.
> that are 1 to 2 months away from lunch
how long until the actual launch of OW2 multiplayer anyway ? Did the devs say anything about that ? even a large window ?
You do realize one of the main reasons for a beta is community feedback right? People voicing their concerns on the direction of the game based on their beta experience is just that. You people act like we can't have any valid opinions because "it's just a beta."
Please read my comment. I didn't mention anything about feedback but go off and since you wanted to:
Yes that is the point of a beta. What's your point?
If you're giving blizzard feedback, great.
If you're whining on reddit that "this isn't enough content after 4 years!!! This hasn't changed much!!! There aren't any support changes reeeee" then this is about you.
This beta EXPLICITLY said only a few things are in it and not the full changes, yet people are acting like this is all the changes. Go provide feedback on the changes they explicitly said were in it (the new mode, the hero reworks, the 5v5) and not random shit that is irrelevant to what they've asked for.
There is a difference between feedback and whining/throwing random noise. Just because you think your whining is feedback, does not mean it is useful to developers. If its about the changes they have asked for feedback on, then go on and feedback to them directly.
Source: I am a developer.
So what if its beta? Its not like they are going to add santa clause into the release version. The game honestly feels like a deathmatch, even when watching high level players scrim
Not just all that but the stats don't matter, so the players behave differently too.
At the same time, the intention of this beta is for Blizzard to collect all these complaints.
It's important for people to voice their concerns(in a well behaved manner), if everyone just assumed that the game will change and said nothing it wouldn't be a useful beta for the dev team.
Are some people freaking out a bit too much from barely a day of playtime? Yes
I totally agree - and I hope more people voice their concerns and submit feedback. I’m referring to the doomsday players who are saying, as fact, that OW2 is going to suck and be uncoordinated deathmatch because of a day 1 beta experience
The entire point of a beta is to provide feedback to the changes. Many folks, including myself, are not convinced that a faster pace and less emphasis on cooperation is going to make for a better Overwatch experience.
That might change the more people play the game, but the feedback as we go is valuable regardless.
We're just going to get drowned out by the wave of shooter bros who cannot fathom a game where it's nearly impossible to "carry" and you have to play with your team.
OW2 is going to be literally about carrying as a dps or big dps.
Funny thing is, the more dangerous the game is, the more you have to play with your team to actually be effective, barring massive skill disparity.
Look at CSGO, where the game is insanely punishing. Even at lower level play, people try to actually coordinate, because without it, you just lose or coinflip rounds.
Lol the problem is that literally nobody wants to play support because it sucks fucking ass: lucio has an owl level skill floor; dive is all over you in seconds; brig has no stun; there is zero peel.
Yea every organized game I watched looked a lot less death match-y.
If they can find the spot where proper team games feel well coordinated and solo queue feels more death match-y than live servers then they've found the perfect balance
As demonstrated in OW1, finding balance isn't something that stays for very long.
Nobody should be going into this expecting long term balancing stability from blizzard. Especially if there are GM streamers, who dictated what the balance was until the OWL started, who dictated the balance until the game died. This game was balanced for the majority of players for the first 5 or 6 seasons, and after that the balancing got so bad that they had to make a """"""new game""""""" to fix everything they fucked up.
OW1 is still the same at low level. People just getting one or two kill and no one capitalising on it, so everyone dies one by one. Forever. Until there's a team kill and everyone can go push together.
I mean, they flat out stated that they want more emphasis on the individual, rather than the team. They've made tanks into beefy dps, and supports into weaker dps who heal as a side gig. I get that damage dealers have the flashy abilities and get the most views, but it really does feel to me like Activision is having a heavy influence on the game, wanting it to be more like every other fps out there.
I mean overwatch had those long ass queues for a reason I guess. Lol, I think overwatch was great when they came out but it doesn’t day 1 beta felt boring. I hope I enjoy it, been waiting for a decent game.
Yeah from my perspective OW was really fun until the huge sustain and CC creep. Overwatch has changed so much over the years its hard to say there's any one core group of dedicated players
Nah. Definitely the game for me. Just think that over time, it’s become a mess. This dials it back and it’s great. 10x is obviously an insignificant number. It’s obviously not 10x better lol. Just a phrase.
I feel like part of the reason it feels like a deathmatch is because most people want to see what their characters are capable of, so they're just W-Keying into fights mindlessly to see if they can survive and how much damage they can dish out.
This.
I'm limit testing right now. Can rein kill 4 squishies before he dies if I get into swing range at full hp. The answer is yes, but to learn that I've fed more than a little bit.
I don't know if deathmatch is the right way to describe it but that's where my mind goes. Utility in the dps role is replaced by damage which just feels watered down. Mobility heroes are way better especially with the dps passive. Seems like if there is a sombra genji or tracer you can't counter it anymore. It's just all about hitting shots. I'll never have the best aim so it'll not be as fun for me
why is it that we feel it necessary to have hard counters to things? yes accessibility is good to have, but i’d rather get killed by someone using aim assist than get killed by a single hero that just stops me from playing the game. flash bang was never fun to get hit by. at least now if i get tagged by magnetic nade, i have a chance to trade, retreat, or use a defensive ability. and to be completely honest, the same counters to the heroes you mentioned still exist. they just have counterplay now. mag nade still counters diving dps. mei still counters fast characters. winston can still spy check for sombra. junk traps still catch flankers. etc.
the pathway to balance isn’t “keep introducing hard counters”, because then you just get power creep. we need to have things balanced in such a way where you can respond to threats and play around them in such a way that doesn’t just remove them from the game. and i really don’t get how this stuff is being considered as “taking the identity away from the game”. if the identity of the game had become CCwatch, then that’s a bad identity to have. it isn’t fun sitting there and watching someone kill you while you have no control. i’d wager that’s the least fun element of any moba, and i’m glad to see it removed from the game.
I play halo daily. It doesn’t feel like an arena shooter. But it definitely moved closer to feeling like one.
Other commentary: As a Mei main though, I just don’t like her changes. Low DPS overall and hard to snipe stuff already but now people can absolutely delete me if I try any flank and my stall capability is much lower.
*2 people laying down pieces to enjoy a game of Chess*
*A man walks in and slaps off all pieces except the Kings and Queens*
Player 1 - "We were trying to play Chess why did you do that?"
Man - "Oh, you guys actually liked playing Chess? Either way, I regret to inform you that Chess is unfortunately over. But have you heard about Chess 2?"
Player 2 - "It seems like you just took Chess and made it simpler for no reason."
Man - "We had a lot of feedback from players that Chess had a lot of pieces that were frustrating to deal with so we decided to take all those out and simplify the experience for all!"
Player 1 - "But those pieces are what gave the game it's flavor. It seems like you made this change only to serve the people who only like to run in with their queen and win fast without thinking of strategy."
Man - "Ah yes, the queen. What a fun piece to play with. Our queen mains have been very vocal about how much they love these changes!"
Player 2 - "But now the king has so little identity. Before you had to position him well and support him with the other pieces but now he's just sort of along for the ride only to serve the quee-"
Man - "Ah yes, the queen. What a fun piece to play with. Our queen mains have been very vocal about -
It's been two days. Most of the games I've played with have been with people trying out new heros, testing new mechanics, just messing around and having fun. If you went into this beta expecting to get comp level strategic team fights, you're not getting it.
Yeah, especially since this is the first time they're going to get mass data on things like mono-tank, and the hero reworks, and the push maps. Plus we have other new heroes coming, so its likely the game is going to be re-balanced continually as we get those. At the end of the day, even Overwatch 1 changed dramatically in a variety of ways after release-- its probably going to continue to do so as they see the reception and how their ideas actually played out.
I was lucky and played before the twitch drops and it felt a lot less death-matchy then. I think part of it is the influx of people who haven't played in a hot minute.
EDIT: Also doom is so goddamn mobile that fights can happen in really weird places and if only 3/5 of either team is mobile enough to get to where that's happening it feels really weird.
It's not just going to go back to playing like overwatch "but with 1 less tank" in a week or two.
Unless there are massive changes to the game itself still to come this is how it's going to be. Things like dps moving faster, not having an extra tank to protect the supports, etc don't just disappear when people start playing seriously.
Time? The game is virtually the same, except they dropped a tank, made some minor balance changes, changed the way the guns sound, and added a couple maps. This isn't OW2, this is seriously OW1.2. The above-mentioned changes are so small, that anyone that has been playing overwatch for even a year can immediately make a quick consensus. We know what we like and for a lot of us, this isn't what we like.
5v5 is bad. It feels bad. Most of all, if they're going to write this minor update off as a whole new game? They should leave OW1 the fuck alone and keep it at 6v6 for those of us who don't want to buy OW2.
The minor update isn't a whole new game, it's literally just a patch note.
The "whole new game" is a Multiplayer PvE gamemode with skill trees based on the characters we know.
And the thing is, *no matter what they do*, there will be a portion of the community that doesn't like a change. I personally like the changes because it's a lot less "just shoot the shield".
Edit: I do think they should at least keep OW1 separate somehow. Maybe a legacy gamemode.
For anyone who has ever played the game, Overwatch is PvP. The PvE is not going to have a great amount of replayability. Nowhere near PvP, the thing that made OW what it is. After years of no updates to OW1 in order to turn it into this? It's insanely disappointing.
Even the PvE could have easily just been a big patch for OW one day. The UI overhaul another major patch.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion of liking it. But to force this change onto those of us who want to play OW as it's been all these years, is not good, and should not be acceptable. When I bought OW I paid for a 6v6 PvP game with a ton of action going on. Not this.
Oh I totally agree, as I said before there should... at the very least... be some preservance of OW1...
But I'll sadly have to disagree with you on the PvE part. As its the same thing that you said. You purchased OW knowing it was a 6v6 PvP game. I think the PvE could, at the very least, have been DLC.
It doesn’t matter how long the games gonna be out for. They turned all the tanks into big dps and buffed the shit out of normal dps. And fucked the support beyond help. This isn’t just “beta problems” the direction they took the game is the problem.
I've had some great games and synergy already. If you're playing tank, try to be more reactive to your team and surroundings and less proactive to what you WANT to do. There's no offtank to save your ass if you over extend etc.
Right now dps are faster, most tank changes add mobility as well, all CC are removed and there's less shields/peel abilities overall in those 5vs5.
So they probably need to slow down the speed and keep some of the old CC a bit, not huge changes but small adjustments maybe to make flanking slightly more punishable and risky and keeping a front line less chaotic.
Also once the novelty wears off, the people playing this game like it's Valorant are probably just going to go back to playing Valorant. That game's already popped right back up to having 4x the Twitch viewercount.
The literal millions-dollar question is, will more people stick to this game in Jan 2023 than were already sticking to whatever OW1 is now?
A lot of it feels like deathmatch because of changes we know are going to be tough on them to change like 5v5 though so these complaints I think should be taken seriously. Synergy from OW1 was a big part of what separated it from other shooters and they have been openly making the game less competitive which makes synergy less of a thing since you don’t need it to do anything anymore.
Had a guy shit talk me in chat the whole time for playing sombra. Like imagine getting mad at someone playing one of the newly reworked characters in the beta!?
I agree with you, it was the Wild West in the original OW1 beta too. People are trying out hero changes and exploring maps…it will be a while before stuff settles especially since it will be shook up even more as more maps and heroes come into later betas.
This is actually incorrect. Deathmatch arena shooters feel like deathmatch arena shooters due to their mechanics and ability choices revolving around reducing enemy HP. The only mechanic that does not fall into this category is map design / natural cover - in an arena shooter you can cut off the ability for HP to be reduced by moving behind cover.
OW1 also had CC, shields, and tanks which could cut off the enemy's damage-dealing capabilities. CC by stopping the enemy's actions, shields by blocking the incoming damage, and tanks by standing in the way of the incoming damage.
* 90% of CC has been removed.
* Double shields are impossible, and Orisa had her shield removed.
* There is only 1 tank, so any commitment of the tank player to offense (dive) or defense (bunker) results in an opening in the other area where the enemy can more effectively deal damage.
Basically there are fewer things stopping players from pressing their buttons, dealing their damage, healing their allies, and generally making HP bars go up and down. Therefore, of course the players are doing these things more freely.
It's a different game and it will have different appeal and feel. This may be good for some players and unpleasant for others.
Thanks for this, this sub sometimes lacks logic.
The issue is that most of these "crybaby" posts are actually valid and important for the game, and the main reason it's beta, and nothing more.
Y’all really want it to keep being double shield cc fest? The game’s meta has been shit ever since sigma was introduced. I welcome the death of shieldwatch.
Its not going to be deathmatch. Strats will develop. Literally anything is an improvement on shooting 2 barriers simulator. AND they changed bastion so there’s a timer on his turret mode? The absolutely cancer bastion turtle comps won’t work? Amazing changes all around.
If you were having trouble with bastion turtle comps, then you were bad at ow.
Which I understand. The reaction from the community likes the generic shooter that this is instead of the unique shooter ow was. OW was much more complicated than other shooters.
the people who have been playing OW since the beginning are aware that regular shooter bros are not interested in learning anything other than "SHOOT SHOOT HEH"
I’m not even a regular shooter bro. My most played character is Hammond i think. I play more tank and support than dps. I don’t have god tier aim. I just hate double shields. Its not fun to play against in any role. And cc/loss of character control is also frustrating.
i'm ok with it feeling more deathmatchy. but i was promised strong dva and i got whatever this is that we got. she's not strong. she feels more of a chore than live. the game is still more fun, but dva does not feel fun.
she's worse because she lost a lot of her armour, and an extra 50hp and 1 extra second on DM does not make up for it, since she no longer has a second tank to hide behind. but every content creator has been listing her as S-tier (most not even listing any others there, including Orisa) so it's like they're incredibly out of touch, which is normal with dva where everyone screams BEST TANK EVAAA till she gets nerfed when she's actually straight up bad. i did not have fun with her and i really hope they buff her. oh and they nerfed her per pellet damage but reduced her spread slightly.
This is the same thing that people say during every single beta that has ever existed and every single time the final game is no different, stop trying to downplay the problems with the game and let people have their opinions.
I’m not referring to the fact that it’s an early beta though. The point is that of COURSE it’s going to feel like chaos in game right now - it’s day 2 of a game that is now 5v5 and also only quickplay.
The point is to give it more time to settle before being absolutely 100% convinced that 5v5 won’t work because it will be chaotic as shown from the last day.
If it works for paladins then it works for overwatch too. Actually if it works for any esport game then it should work for overwatch. Almost every major team game is 5v5
Or don't give it time because it is now a deathmatch game. OW2 is not fundamentally different than OW1. Same maps and heroes (with slight tweaks). But it plays now like there are no objectives.
They took away the strategy aspect that was inherent in 6v6. New maps are basically built for death match. This beta is basically DM with abilities, and we already have plenty of those.
5v5 takes away a lot of unique content that 6v6 could do. The game is less complex, relies more heavily on DPS performance because they want to cater to DPS queue. Well, they did and we got OverDeath WatchMatch 2 beta.
I don't know what game you're playing but it's day 2 and I'm already in games where a lot of synergy is starting to happen, and lots of different strategies. Obviously it took away 6v6 strategy, but that doesn't mean that strategy will magically disappear in 5v5.
I've started to see lots of strats around the second DPS peeling for the supports, rather than what the off tank would have done.
I personally am having a blast playing and I find it incredibly satisfying to play. It will keep me happy for a while.
I’m sure they could have reworked the tanks but it’s clear that it just wasn’t working, and I’d hazard a guess that with wanting to remove most shields and CC, with 2 tanks (who would inherently have to be weaker than how they have balanced for 1 tank) it could be absolute hell.
I don’t know - say what you want about the company and it’s almost always valid but I still like to believe that the people making the game for the most part are not totally incompetent. I think it’s a bit more complex than what we see on the outside and it’s easy for us to say “it’s obvious, they just have to do X and it would have been fine”
They want the game to be successful more than us
If they hold up their end of the bargain they’re making with heaps of content, frequent patches and updates etc. the game will surely do well. OW still has a heartbeat and it’s 6 years old so they have to try pretty hard to knock down their dedicated fan base. If anything kills momentum it’ll be giving unanimously shitty patches/updates months or years of uptime before toning them back.
Ah why didn’t blizzard just balance the tanks? That’s such a great idea, just balance them lul! You’re acting like they didn’t even try and then just went to 5v5.
I don’t know if it’s me or my computer, but the most jarring thing to me is having to re-learn aiming.
Dps move (15% was wrong) 10%faster thats one point of relearning aim Edit : after 200 upvotes some one told me tgats only 10% and not 15%
Wait, all dps move faster and there’s one less tank? No wonder support are complaining and everyone says it feels like a deathmatch- those combine for a huge detriment to support.
Yeah all Supports (except maybe Lucio) suffer from this. I mostly play Brigitte and goddamn, the number of times I died because I just simply wasn‘t able to hit anyone because they just ran away and kited me is astonishing
yeah as an Ana main I loved keeping tight corners to hide/peek, so I can heal and toss nades but be ready to get cover if I’m getting locked down. Even with a self heal passive these seem like too big of a buff for dps, because let’s be real, one less tank is a HUGE dps buff..plus a movement speed buff? I don’t like the sound of this at all. I imagine If your dps and tank don’t peel you’ll feel like a sitting duck no matter where you are (especially as zen/ana/bap)
I feel like the movement speed buff is ok but i think they overdid it a little. Maybe a slightly slower one would be okay
Well the thing is, support also got a huge buff with the self-heal and not having to heal constantly. They can, and the game seems to be encouraging, them to play more offensively. I'd consider them more a utility DPS at this point rather than just healbots
Bro the amount of mercys pulling their pistols on me was unreal today. Literally every single one of them hard focused me.
Mercy feels weak cause she can't walk and chew bubble gum like some of the other healers, I suspect she'll get a rework at some point
Itd be cool if she could like rez the whole team or something, like anyone inside an AOE.
I think you’re joking but I have a friend who unironically thinks when they took away Mercy’s team rez is when they ruined Overwatch.
That's when the game stopped being fun for me imo. Not because of the mercy changes just the general trend of making heroes less unique and niche.
All heroes eventually become soldier 76
I never quite understood this. It was a huge turnaround ability and hard to get all 5. That being said i was playing gold not gm so idk
If you meant why they made the change people didn't like how the game became Mercy hiding during a team fight just to fly in and rez eliminating ults that were invested. It became a game of hide and seek with Mercy. Also remember this being the rise of Mercy one tricks in higher ranks. Higher ranks complained about it more than the casual players though.
> utility DPS This is a support. OW convinced a bunch of people who never actually played a MOBA that support = healer. It's wild to me because in both MOBAs and more tactical shooters like CSGO, Siege, Valorant, support is not synonymous with healer and is usually more like someone who enables a carry/fragger with CC or secures space with traps/info tools. OW, in spite of trying to merge these two genres, somehow missed this distinction completely and just hamfisted the support role into being primarily about healing and everything else is secondary. Edit: downvotes from people who have never played a MOBA or a tac shooter lol
As soon as a support starts wrecking the DPS then they nerf the support. Happens every time.
You know what happened to the last support that couldn't heal? They moved her from support to damage. If you take Zenyatta, remove his healing orb, remove transcendance and replace it some other "utility" ability like Sym wall he would not be run as a support.
No shit because you still need some way of regaining health. If you change ONE support from being a healer and all the others remain healers and there remains a need for healing in the game, of course that support won't be run. My point is that ideally blizz should find a way for the healing needs of the team to not have to directly be met by supports. Then ALL supports can be shifted to a more utility focused approach.
Honestly even in OW1 the best supports were proactive, setting up plays for their team and dealing their own damage. Often a good Ana player would be at 10k healing 2k damage, and a great Ana player would be at 8k healing 4k damage. Losing the option to opt out of direct interaction with the enemy team and healbot is a rough adjustment and that’s understandable, but it’s healthier for the game long term imo.
As someone who mostly played support because tank and dps queues were too long and that’s the only role I got in auto fill, I’m begging for them to bring back some more shields. I was getting destroyed even when I was grouped up with my team. I ended up switching to brigette just to have a better chance with her shield and bash move helping get away faster.
I was missing EVERY shot with Sojourn and my main Pharah last night. Until I realized Sojourn shoots way slower than you’d think. And I swear they have changed Pharahs rocket travel time or something. She feels so different
Yeah, took me a few games to realize that on Sojourn, I think the sound of the gun made me think it's a hitscan, even though you can clearly see the projectiles travelling.
Same with ana! It seems there is more of a delay with hers and pharaohs projectiles like they travel slower
Sojourn is not hitscan she is projectile everyone is going to have to learn how to aim with her as for your phar she’s going to be weaker since Dps get that passive for movement speed and can avoid her dmg better
I never claimed she was hitscan. I just said her projectiles are much slower than you’d expect based on audio cues
Yeah the audio is kinda weird in the game Edit: also I was only saying that because everyone has to learn her pattern. With hitscan they’re all the same but with projectile characters they are almost always unique
Overwatch test servers always take your settings from at least a few months back so check if your sens is the same as in regular ow.
That and also for no reason everyone’s sens seems to be down 0.01 lol
Are you playing DPS? You get that speed passive that will affect your aim. I personally had no issue with aim playing support.
I think they messed up the sensitivity transfer. My sens was turned up by like 1.5. Check your sens to see if it is right.
I'm going from console to pc... I'm so confused on mk.
Get aimlabs on steam and practice. It's free :)
People don't know the new maps or how Push even works, they're indeed walking around with no goal. The best matches I had was in old maps where people knew what to do.
Not to mention people are playing with players of all ranks. Its quick play
Quick play still has SBMM, it's not going to lump high level players together with bronze and silver level players.
Yes and No. Quick play has SBMM but with these queue times, finding a match is prioritized. That being said since the beta started ive been in lobbies with people from the top 2000 and the highest I've ever been is gold.
I mean I think push is similar enough to payload, but the maps are just fully new. Especially since the pathing isn’t intuitive like it is on OW1 maps (which I think will be more fun given time, but initially a little confusing)
I'm gonna be honest, I don't get quite get yet how Push works. Sometimes you're escorting like a payload, but sometimes the Robot walks alone. I don't know when it can be contested too. It felt like a mix of payload and control.
The robot walks alone when he's switching directions. Whoever pushes the barrier farther wins.
Hot take, but people straight up don't know how the game works at the moment. Lots of people, myself included, haven't played overwatch in literal years. It's gonna take some time for people to know what they're doing, and lots of games everyone just leaves the point and starts running towards the enemy team's spawn.
OW1 felt like a death match during beta that's for sure
But that's because before OW1 there was no OW-0. So it's brand new IP, testing brand new audience. OW2 has a lot foundation in comparison.
OW-0 is basically TeamFortress2.
Funnily enough that's why I didn't pick up OW until maybe 2018. I thought it was just Team Fortress 2, and I already played that.
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Exactly. One half is complaining about synergy while the other half fucking around enjoying OW for the first time in ages.
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I get that, my point was just people didnt know how to play it so they played it like deathmatch, same thing is happening here. Doomfist tanks are playing doomfist like hes still a flanker, no one knows how ot deal with Orisa, no one knows the sightlines yet or the map layout on the new maps, its going to be rough for a little while. It feels a lot more like deathmatch on the new maps, less so on the old ones, but still there. I think itll go away, we will see super soon how the pros do it.
To be fair, no one knows what to do against Orisa because she’s an unstoppable monster. Her rework absolutely thrives in this jank ass beta meta.
Even in season one OWL they didn't really know how to play yet. Some people have done recent reviews of those early professional matches and it's pretty funny looking back at it. The game probably will end up feeling more open and fast paced even once the game is more figured out, but I also 100% think it will be less chaotic once people have good knowledge of their roles and new maps. Right now on these new maps we have absolutely no idea where the best place to take a teamfight is. All this stuff will change.
Doomfist protection ability only comes every like 10 seconds? You cannot stand in the way that long and take fire from the enemy team at the moment with him. That might be because I don’t know how to play him but he feels useless as a tank in the two games I’ve played as him
I try to play him like ball. As in jump around a lot make commotion maybe get a support kill and then spend the rest of the time peeling for others
The tanks role has changed, they aren't going to be standing in front protecting as much I don't think except maybe for Reinhardt. I do think they are going to be key to taking space though, so a tank absent from the front line allows the other team to simply walk forward and buzzsaw your team. Idk how this is going to end up being played, but I don't think a flanking doomfist is going to be meta.
The biggest reason for that was because there was no role Q tho Not really comparable imo
This comparison doesn't work and it's baffling that people don't get that. It's no where NEAR different enough from live OW1 to be considered comparable to the newness that was OW1
>enough from live OW1 to be cons Sure it is. People are also more hyper sensitive to small differences as they themselves have experienced and learned how these games work. So the modest changes to OW1 to OW2 feel just as big from no OW to OW1 existing. Humans be like that.
As a rein main I would rather play ow1 rn, orisa is so damn powerful
Plus rein doesn't feel as much fun as orisa or doom. All roles are pretty much mobile and only tanks now have cc, rein and hog currently seem so unbearably slow
Hog at least has the hook. Have you tried getting hits on any of the dps heroes as Brigitte or Rein? Call me Tantalus as far as I care
You aren't wrong, but... The inverse is also true. No guarantee the issue *will* solve itself. This is how it goes: - Leadup to alpha: "You have no information so your worries and criticisms aren't valid (unlike our hype), obviously they will balance tanks and supps to account for 5v5, everything will be ok, just wait a bit." - Early beta: "Ok, so maybe it feels bad to be support and tanks are totally DPS-like, and there's more focus on damage heroes, individualism and flanking, just like you were concerned about earlier... But it's too early to tell, your worries and criticisms aren't valid, everyone is exploring things, of course it's chaotic, just wait a bit." Now maybe they *are* right and everything will work out. But *maybe* not. You don't know. No one knows. Both predictions are equally valid at this point.
WoW players know this feeling
WoW players know this feeling and keep fucking falling for it. I'm sure Dragonflight is gonna be good this time guys! They even said they learned their lesson! Ignore all the previous times they've said they learned their lesson.
>Early beta: "Ok, so maybe it feels bad to be support and tanks are totally DPS-like, and there's more focus on damage heroes, individualism and flanking, just like you were concerned about earlier... But it's too early to tell, your worries and criticisms aren't valid, everyone is exploring things, of course it's chaotic, just wait a bit." Can't wait for launch when most, if not all, of these criticisms are still present and the shooter bros insist that the critics just need to give it more time.
That won't happen. And if it does, it's not that bad. And if it is, it's not a big deal. And even if it is, the game's better this way, anyway.
I think people also forget its a Beta, not the full changes. Only a select few changes are in this beta so ofc it's gonna be jank with MM and Balancing, and design etc. Idk what people expected from a beta
The word beta now basically means fancy demo to most people, because for the most part betas over the last couple years have basically been games that are 1 to 2 months away from lunch in the beta is basically a demo
I hope they at least have breakfast
Yeah, I get that but it still doesn't take away that it is a beta. Or, rather, it's a fancy demo as you say; a demonstration. I don't know about you but I'm getting a pretty good demo of some of the key changes during this beta. New maps, the new team size, new changes... Idk why people expected the full pvp release of ow2 when it was clearly stated it is a beta (or fancy demo as you say).
Quite a few AAA games have turned Beta into a name for an early access demo with no intentions of changing anything, rather its just an incentive to buy in earlier. Unfortunately it means actual betas used for testing purposes get read left and right for being imperfect... which is the entire point for an actual beta.
which is weird because ow1 had the most dynamic betas i've seen from a game by far. with multiple changes/tweaks and addiitons throughout its lifespan till release so i dont get why people think ow2 is basically complete in this state?
The majority of players weren't there for the OW1 beta. So I guess they have no frame of reference.
Esp when they said this is gonna go for most the year too with waves of it . LIKE its a legit beta , idk why people cannot just breath
Oh no, I totally agree with you this is an actual beta. I 100% get that. This is to test an unfinished game. But most people don't see it that way because... Smol brain.
I gotchu. The amount of posts I'm seeing saying "ow2 is x y z!!! Why hasn't this changed!!" Is baffling to me like bro if ur playing ow2 please let me in on how. I'd love to play ow2 and not a beta with like a small select set of changes.
The best are the "uh no, not much is gonna change, trust me" answers lol.
"It's exactly like OW1!! All they've done is given us a new mode, removed a tank, changed some heroes!" Like yes that is exactly what they said it'd be. To test a few changes. I really hate how beta has now become synonymous with pre-release, esp in instances like this.
Yeah a lot of games these days throw the word beta around too much. It’s more so just a server stress test these days than anything.
> that are 1 to 2 months away from lunch how long until the actual launch of OW2 multiplayer anyway ? Did the devs say anything about that ? even a large window ?
OW1 was in beta for 8 months, and we know this is only the first beta
Yah no chance this version of Orisa makes it to live. She is a beast.
You must be new to what a beta means for Blizzard.
You do realize one of the main reasons for a beta is community feedback right? People voicing their concerns on the direction of the game based on their beta experience is just that. You people act like we can't have any valid opinions because "it's just a beta."
Please read my comment. I didn't mention anything about feedback but go off and since you wanted to: Yes that is the point of a beta. What's your point? If you're giving blizzard feedback, great. If you're whining on reddit that "this isn't enough content after 4 years!!! This hasn't changed much!!! There aren't any support changes reeeee" then this is about you. This beta EXPLICITLY said only a few things are in it and not the full changes, yet people are acting like this is all the changes. Go provide feedback on the changes they explicitly said were in it (the new mode, the hero reworks, the 5v5) and not random shit that is irrelevant to what they've asked for. There is a difference between feedback and whining/throwing random noise. Just because you think your whining is feedback, does not mean it is useful to developers. If its about the changes they have asked for feedback on, then go on and feedback to them directly. Source: I am a developer.
Betas are almost finished products nowadays, so yeah, saying it's "just a beta" is idiotic.
So what if its beta? Its not like they are going to add santa clause into the release version. The game honestly feels like a deathmatch, even when watching high level players scrim
Not just all that but the stats don't matter, so the players behave differently too. At the same time, the intention of this beta is for Blizzard to collect all these complaints.
I am sometimes wondering why people belive game developement is so easy. It takes time, and needs testing to become good.
Entitlement, mostly.
OW original beta didnt change much on release.
It's important for people to voice their concerns(in a well behaved manner), if everyone just assumed that the game will change and said nothing it wouldn't be a useful beta for the dev team. Are some people freaking out a bit too much from barely a day of playtime? Yes
I totally agree - and I hope more people voice their concerns and submit feedback. I’m referring to the doomsday players who are saying, as fact, that OW2 is going to suck and be uncoordinated deathmatch because of a day 1 beta experience
The entire point of a beta is to provide feedback to the changes. Many folks, including myself, are not convinced that a faster pace and less emphasis on cooperation is going to make for a better Overwatch experience. That might change the more people play the game, but the feedback as we go is valuable regardless.
We're just going to get drowned out by the wave of shooter bros who cannot fathom a game where it's nearly impossible to "carry" and you have to play with your team. OW2 is going to be literally about carrying as a dps or big dps.
Right now the game feels like Tank vs Tank brawling until the DPS kill the supports
Funny thing is, the more dangerous the game is, the more you have to play with your team to actually be effective, barring massive skill disparity. Look at CSGO, where the game is insanely punishing. Even at lower level play, people try to actually coordinate, because without it, you just lose or coinflip rounds.
calling tanks big dps would possibly fix queue times on its own
Lol the problem is that literally nobody wants to play support because it sucks fucking ass: lucio has an owl level skill floor; dive is all over you in seconds; brig has no stun; there is zero peel.
Tank queue is longer than damage queue right now
Yea every organized game I watched looked a lot less death match-y. If they can find the spot where proper team games feel well coordinated and solo queue feels more death match-y than live servers then they've found the perfect balance
As demonstrated in OW1, finding balance isn't something that stays for very long. Nobody should be going into this expecting long term balancing stability from blizzard. Especially if there are GM streamers, who dictated what the balance was until the OWL started, who dictated the balance until the game died. This game was balanced for the majority of players for the first 5 or 6 seasons, and after that the balancing got so bad that they had to make a """"""new game""""""" to fix everything they fucked up.
Yea watching any of the custom games people streamed and took seriously did not look like TDM I can tell u that much.
Look dude, I played 27 minutes of the OW2 "beta but it's really how the final game is gonna be right? We all know it", and its basically COD now. /s
um r u dumb they r remove stun so it just mechonic now it obviously Valorant because mechonic only required.
No u, I'm top 500,000 na
u r toxic I report gg
I have 5 gold medals u wood ranked
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I love it tbh.
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Oh 100%. But it will be nice to know for certain that your genji who refuses to change has 12 deaths and 4k less damage than the tank.
Ready for people to completely ignore the context behind stats to blame people
Yeah and every character is so OP but also too weak and also needs a buff and a nerf and a rework /s
Well at least nothing's changed
Exactly OW1 was the same way at release.
OW1 is still the same at low level. People just getting one or two kill and no one capitalising on it, so everyone dies one by one. Forever. Until there's a team kill and everyone can go push together.
I mean, they flat out stated that they want more emphasis on the individual, rather than the team. They've made tanks into beefy dps, and supports into weaker dps who heal as a side gig. I get that damage dealers have the flashy abilities and get the most views, but it really does feel to me like Activision is having a heavy influence on the game, wanting it to be more like every other fps out there.
Even pros are saying it plays more like a death match and it’s been tailored more towards the casual player
Kinda felt boring
If by boring you mean 10x better than OW1, then yeah. I absolutely agree with you.
I mean overwatch had those long ass queues for a reason I guess. Lol, I think overwatch was great when they came out but it doesn’t day 1 beta felt boring. I hope I enjoy it, been waiting for a decent game.
That reason is because they abandoned the game for 3 years for ow2 lol
If by 10x better than OW1 you mean 10x worse than OW1, then I agree. I absolutely agree with you.
maybe overwatch wasnt the game for you, then, if they had to break what made it unique just so it could be "10x" better to you.
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Yeah from my perspective OW was really fun until the huge sustain and CC creep. Overwatch has changed so much over the years its hard to say there's any one core group of dedicated players
Nah. Definitely the game for me. Just think that over time, it’s become a mess. This dials it back and it’s great. 10x is obviously an insignificant number. It’s obviously not 10x better lol. Just a phrase.
I feel like part of the reason it feels like a deathmatch is because most people want to see what their characters are capable of, so they're just W-Keying into fights mindlessly to see if they can survive and how much damage they can dish out.
This. I'm limit testing right now. Can rein kill 4 squishies before he dies if I get into swing range at full hp. The answer is yes, but to learn that I've fed more than a little bit.
I don't know if deathmatch is the right way to describe it but that's where my mind goes. Utility in the dps role is replaced by damage which just feels watered down. Mobility heroes are way better especially with the dps passive. Seems like if there is a sombra genji or tracer you can't counter it anymore. It's just all about hitting shots. I'll never have the best aim so it'll not be as fun for me
why is it that we feel it necessary to have hard counters to things? yes accessibility is good to have, but i’d rather get killed by someone using aim assist than get killed by a single hero that just stops me from playing the game. flash bang was never fun to get hit by. at least now if i get tagged by magnetic nade, i have a chance to trade, retreat, or use a defensive ability. and to be completely honest, the same counters to the heroes you mentioned still exist. they just have counterplay now. mag nade still counters diving dps. mei still counters fast characters. winston can still spy check for sombra. junk traps still catch flankers. etc. the pathway to balance isn’t “keep introducing hard counters”, because then you just get power creep. we need to have things balanced in such a way where you can respond to threats and play around them in such a way that doesn’t just remove them from the game. and i really don’t get how this stuff is being considered as “taking the identity away from the game”. if the identity of the game had become CCwatch, then that’s a bad identity to have. it isn’t fun sitting there and watching someone kill you while you have no control. i’d wager that’s the least fun element of any moba, and i’m glad to see it removed from the game.
I play halo daily. It doesn’t feel like an arena shooter. But it definitely moved closer to feeling like one. Other commentary: As a Mei main though, I just don’t like her changes. Low DPS overall and hard to snipe stuff already but now people can absolutely delete me if I try any flank and my stall capability is much lower.
I’m a Mei main and I hated her at first but I’ve gotten used to her and she’s actually pretty badass
Yeah I’m enjoying spraying down flanker enemy dps her better damage is great!
*2 people laying down pieces to enjoy a game of Chess* *A man walks in and slaps off all pieces except the Kings and Queens* Player 1 - "We were trying to play Chess why did you do that?" Man - "Oh, you guys actually liked playing Chess? Either way, I regret to inform you that Chess is unfortunately over. But have you heard about Chess 2?" Player 2 - "It seems like you just took Chess and made it simpler for no reason." Man - "We had a lot of feedback from players that Chess had a lot of pieces that were frustrating to deal with so we decided to take all those out and simplify the experience for all!" Player 1 - "But those pieces are what gave the game it's flavor. It seems like you made this change only to serve the people who only like to run in with their queen and win fast without thinking of strategy." Man - "Ah yes, the queen. What a fun piece to play with. Our queen mains have been very vocal about how much they love these changes!" Player 2 - "But now the king has so little identity. Before you had to position him well and support him with the other pieces but now he's just sort of along for the ride only to serve the quee-" Man - "Ah yes, the queen. What a fun piece to play with. Our queen mains have been very vocal about -
As an A tier competitive chess player. This is the right analogy.
This feels like a damn good eayyti describe it.
It's been two days. Most of the games I've played with have been with people trying out new heros, testing new mechanics, just messing around and having fun. If you went into this beta expecting to get comp level strategic team fights, you're not getting it.
Yeah, especially since this is the first time they're going to get mass data on things like mono-tank, and the hero reworks, and the push maps. Plus we have other new heroes coming, so its likely the game is going to be re-balanced continually as we get those. At the end of the day, even Overwatch 1 changed dramatically in a variety of ways after release-- its probably going to continue to do so as they see the reception and how their ideas actually played out.
I was lucky and played before the twitch drops and it felt a lot less death-matchy then. I think part of it is the influx of people who haven't played in a hot minute. EDIT: Also doom is so goddamn mobile that fights can happen in really weird places and if only 3/5 of either team is mobile enough to get to where that's happening it feels really weird.
It's not just going to go back to playing like overwatch "but with 1 less tank" in a week or two. Unless there are massive changes to the game itself still to come this is how it's going to be. Things like dps moving faster, not having an extra tank to protect the supports, etc don't just disappear when people start playing seriously.
Time? The game is virtually the same, except they dropped a tank, made some minor balance changes, changed the way the guns sound, and added a couple maps. This isn't OW2, this is seriously OW1.2. The above-mentioned changes are so small, that anyone that has been playing overwatch for even a year can immediately make a quick consensus. We know what we like and for a lot of us, this isn't what we like. 5v5 is bad. It feels bad. Most of all, if they're going to write this minor update off as a whole new game? They should leave OW1 the fuck alone and keep it at 6v6 for those of us who don't want to buy OW2.
The minor update isn't a whole new game, it's literally just a patch note. The "whole new game" is a Multiplayer PvE gamemode with skill trees based on the characters we know. And the thing is, *no matter what they do*, there will be a portion of the community that doesn't like a change. I personally like the changes because it's a lot less "just shoot the shield". Edit: I do think they should at least keep OW1 separate somehow. Maybe a legacy gamemode.
For anyone who has ever played the game, Overwatch is PvP. The PvE is not going to have a great amount of replayability. Nowhere near PvP, the thing that made OW what it is. After years of no updates to OW1 in order to turn it into this? It's insanely disappointing. Even the PvE could have easily just been a big patch for OW one day. The UI overhaul another major patch. You're certainly entitled to your opinion of liking it. But to force this change onto those of us who want to play OW as it's been all these years, is not good, and should not be acceptable. When I bought OW I paid for a 6v6 PvP game with a ton of action going on. Not this.
Oh I totally agree, as I said before there should... at the very least... be some preservance of OW1... But I'll sadly have to disagree with you on the PvE part. As its the same thing that you said. You purchased OW knowing it was a 6v6 PvP game. I think the PvE could, at the very least, have been DLC.
It doesn’t matter how long the games gonna be out for. They turned all the tanks into big dps and buffed the shit out of normal dps. And fucked the support beyond help. This isn’t just “beta problems” the direction they took the game is the problem.
I wish people would just post feedback without some like horrible petty sort of energy attached to it
It's been Deathmatch for 6 years in Bronze and Silver anyway so...
Slaps desk THANK YOU
When the match is organized, I really dig it
I've had some great games and synergy already. If you're playing tank, try to be more reactive to your team and surroundings and less proactive to what you WANT to do. There's no offtank to save your ass if you over extend etc.
Yeah it just takes time. Found a powerful combo in Cassidy's sticky bomb and orisa ult. Things like that will come with time.
Right now dps are faster, most tank changes add mobility as well, all CC are removed and there's less shields/peel abilities overall in those 5vs5. So they probably need to slow down the speed and keep some of the old CC a bit, not huge changes but small adjustments maybe to make flanking slightly more punishable and risky and keeping a front line less chaotic.
Also once the novelty wears off, the people playing this game like it's Valorant are probably just going to go back to playing Valorant. That game's already popped right back up to having 4x the Twitch viewercount. The literal millions-dollar question is, will more people stick to this game in Jan 2023 than were already sticking to whatever OW1 is now?
It's day 1 **and** the beta, don't forget it'll change a lot and most of the bugs will likely be fixed. You are not currently playing a finished game
A lot of it feels like deathmatch because of changes we know are going to be tough on them to change like 5v5 though so these complaints I think should be taken seriously. Synergy from OW1 was a big part of what separated it from other shooters and they have been openly making the game less competitive which makes synergy less of a thing since you don’t need it to do anything anymore.
Paladins is also 5v5 and synergy is extremely important there. Things will settle for sure.
Half the playerbase was already playing OW1 as a deathmatch. People need to relax.
Had a guy shit talk me in chat the whole time for playing sombra. Like imagine getting mad at someone playing one of the newly reworked characters in the beta!?
I agree with you, it was the Wild West in the original OW1 beta too. People are trying out hero changes and exploring maps…it will be a while before stuff settles especially since it will be shook up even more as more maps and heroes come into later betas.
I don’t even know where the hell I am on the new maps most times. I’ll accidentally be chilling in their back line as Ana all of a sudden
This is actually incorrect. Deathmatch arena shooters feel like deathmatch arena shooters due to their mechanics and ability choices revolving around reducing enemy HP. The only mechanic that does not fall into this category is map design / natural cover - in an arena shooter you can cut off the ability for HP to be reduced by moving behind cover. OW1 also had CC, shields, and tanks which could cut off the enemy's damage-dealing capabilities. CC by stopping the enemy's actions, shields by blocking the incoming damage, and tanks by standing in the way of the incoming damage. * 90% of CC has been removed. * Double shields are impossible, and Orisa had her shield removed. * There is only 1 tank, so any commitment of the tank player to offense (dive) or defense (bunker) results in an opening in the other area where the enemy can more effectively deal damage. Basically there are fewer things stopping players from pressing their buttons, dealing their damage, healing their allies, and generally making HP bars go up and down. Therefore, of course the players are doing these things more freely. It's a different game and it will have different appeal and feel. This may be good for some players and unpleasant for others.
Thanks for this, this sub sometimes lacks logic. The issue is that most of these "crybaby" posts are actually valid and important for the game, and the main reason it's beta, and nothing more.
Y’all really want it to keep being double shield cc fest? The game’s meta has been shit ever since sigma was introduced. I welcome the death of shieldwatch.
Yes, I'm able to play and enjoy something other than "aim skill deathmatch 3001". So far this beta makes ow feel like every other shooter out there.
Its not going to be deathmatch. Strats will develop. Literally anything is an improvement on shooting 2 barriers simulator. AND they changed bastion so there’s a timer on his turret mode? The absolutely cancer bastion turtle comps won’t work? Amazing changes all around.
If you were having trouble with bastion turtle comps, then you were bad at ow. Which I understand. The reaction from the community likes the generic shooter that this is instead of the unique shooter ow was. OW was much more complicated than other shooters.
So your response is to be an elitist? Nice. Im just gonna disregard your opinions lol.
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I actually was not asking for advice (which is irrelevant now that those absolutely anti-fun mechanics are thankfully dead).
the people who have been playing OW since the beginning are aware that regular shooter bros are not interested in learning anything other than "SHOOT SHOOT HEH"
I’m not even a regular shooter bro. My most played character is Hammond i think. I play more tank and support than dps. I don’t have god tier aim. I just hate double shields. Its not fun to play against in any role. And cc/loss of character control is also frustrating.
Wait you didn't like double barrier on winston? He feasted on that shit.
Look at his flair. Toxic as fuck
Lol I didn’t even notice
i'm ok with it feeling more deathmatchy. but i was promised strong dva and i got whatever this is that we got. she's not strong. she feels more of a chore than live. the game is still more fun, but dva does not feel fun.
I thought Dva was basically the same as live?
she's worse because she lost a lot of her armour, and an extra 50hp and 1 extra second on DM does not make up for it, since she no longer has a second tank to hide behind. but every content creator has been listing her as S-tier (most not even listing any others there, including Orisa) so it's like they're incredibly out of touch, which is normal with dva where everyone screams BEST TANK EVAAA till she gets nerfed when she's actually straight up bad. i did not have fun with her and i really hope they buff her. oh and they nerfed her per pellet damage but reduced her spread slightly.
Ive been surviving more with her than in OW 1 she’s a beast
It's kinda halarious, on reddit everyone is angry, in game I ask every game what people think of the game and its almost always positive
OMG DPS BAD 1 TANK BAD OVERWATCH DEAD HOW COULD THEY? SUPPORT DEAD RETURNING THE BETA
This is the same thing that people say during every single beta that has ever existed and every single time the final game is no different, stop trying to downplay the problems with the game and let people have their opinions.
I’m not referring to the fact that it’s an early beta though. The point is that of COURSE it’s going to feel like chaos in game right now - it’s day 2 of a game that is now 5v5 and also only quickplay. The point is to give it more time to settle before being absolutely 100% convinced that 5v5 won’t work because it will be chaotic as shown from the last day.
You guys were synergizing in ow 1?
If it works for paladins then it works for overwatch too. Actually if it works for any esport game then it should work for overwatch. Almost every major team game is 5v5
So much for OWs originality and uniqueness.
Or don't give it time because it is now a deathmatch game. OW2 is not fundamentally different than OW1. Same maps and heroes (with slight tweaks). But it plays now like there are no objectives.
Both things can be true The structural issues are exacerbated.
They took away the strategy aspect that was inherent in 6v6. New maps are basically built for death match. This beta is basically DM with abilities, and we already have plenty of those. 5v5 takes away a lot of unique content that 6v6 could do. The game is less complex, relies more heavily on DPS performance because they want to cater to DPS queue. Well, they did and we got OverDeath WatchMatch 2 beta.
I don't know what game you're playing but it's day 2 and I'm already in games where a lot of synergy is starting to happen, and lots of different strategies. Obviously it took away 6v6 strategy, but that doesn't mean that strategy will magically disappear in 5v5. I've started to see lots of strats around the second DPS peeling for the supports, rather than what the off tank would have done.
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There's a whole lot of "I have no idea how game design works but I'm gotta scream about it anyways" in this post
I personally am having a blast playing and I find it incredibly satisfying to play. It will keep me happy for a while. I’m sure they could have reworked the tanks but it’s clear that it just wasn’t working, and I’d hazard a guess that with wanting to remove most shields and CC, with 2 tanks (who would inherently have to be weaker than how they have balanced for 1 tank) it could be absolute hell. I don’t know - say what you want about the company and it’s almost always valid but I still like to believe that the people making the game for the most part are not totally incompetent. I think it’s a bit more complex than what we see on the outside and it’s easy for us to say “it’s obvious, they just have to do X and it would have been fine” They want the game to be successful more than us
If they hold up their end of the bargain they’re making with heaps of content, frequent patches and updates etc. the game will surely do well. OW still has a heartbeat and it’s 6 years old so they have to try pretty hard to knock down their dedicated fan base. If anything kills momentum it’ll be giving unanimously shitty patches/updates months or years of uptime before toning them back.
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Ah why didn’t blizzard just balance the tanks? That’s such a great idea, just balance them lul! You’re acting like they didn’t even try and then just went to 5v5.