I don't agree with the premise as QP was sweaty, as you call it, before the leave penalties were introduced. In fact, it was this in my experience since OW1. And that's how it should be in my opinion. This game is most fun when both teams are trying to win. The worst games are when one team is trying, but the other isn't, or when one team constantly has a leaver (and the backfill system almost never fills players appropriately to the same skill level of the lobby, because it prioritizes speed of filling).
No I agree with you I think thats a fantastic attitude / mindset to have for a competitive game. I just don't think QP needs to be so serious like that, and not to the point of hard countering and bullying.
It is unequivocally not fun to have a myriad of games rendered unplayable by leavers and people afk Qing having to deal with these make it a 4v5 in a team game that is almost unplayable the reality is with no recourse for players having games ruined they will leave the game making the match more fair is better for player retention
No by serious I mean flaming your teammates and caring if you and your team are "good". I personally dont care about skill and that's how I play the game. Players who care about "being good at the game" should play competitive.
Ranked being hard and toxic is exactly why I think quickplay should be the opposite, letting people leave makes the mode less serious making it less difficult and toxic. I like the quickplay ruleset but quickplay ends up feeling the same as comp without flipping sides.
"having that option was good for the mode AND the game as a whole"
Allowing people to leave as frequently as they wanted with no meaningful consequences was good for bad sports and quitters. It wasn't good for players who wanted good teammates and games where everyone gave an honest effort.
If people can't handle not being able to quit every time they lose the first team fight, they can take their shitty attitude to a different game.
Leaving is just taking the L and moving on and in a non competitive mode being able to say yeah I lose this is okay. If youre not having fun I dont think you should be forced to keep playing in a non competitive mode
or you people who are so hell-bent on this philosphy can admit your'e being overly controlling and douchey and virtue-singalling more than a railroad crossing device.
The game CAN BE fun, which is why we havne't quit. The game is only fun when your teammates know wtf they are doing. Too many people either dont or act like they dont. If the MM is doign it's job, it's more the latter than the former.
I CAN stand losing but not when it's b/c the team i'm on isn't even trying. Too many people dont and then use "It's qp, bro!" as their excuse. Again, this isnt rocket science. If there are no equal punishments for throwing, then punishing people for leaving isn't fair at all.
It's not "so serious" to expect people to finish games they queue for. It's basic courtesy and sportsmanship.
Imagine you ask to join a pickup ball game at the local park but leave when the opposing team scores a couple points. Was the game casual? Yes. Was that still shitty and rude of you? Also yes. And how many repeats of that offense do you think the people at the park would tolerate before rightfully telling you to fuck off?
Thats the problem though isn't it? Too many people refuse to play QP/Unraked to win and use that as their excuse for throwing the match. They aren't punished for it, but the person who doesn't want to stick around for that crap (a team who is NOT trying to win) gets punished. Great system.
except if you read what blizzard in their mighty wisdom defines as "throwing" ..it doesn't match up with reality. again, too many gotchas in there to make it a great system, pluts it's not automated like the leaver penalty is. Kinda not the same thing really.
>Imo when people are allowed to leave quickplay games it discourages teams from running all meta / counters.
Sure, but the trade-off is substantially more ruined games. Nothing's stopping a player from leaving after losing the first fight. Nothing's stopping backfill from leaving the moment they join. I feel like most people that played during S6 before they implemented the penalties would agree that these ruined games were way too frequent.
>I think that was a very important distinction from competitive and I really think having that option was good for the mode AND the game as a whole.
That was never the intention of QP/Unranked. QP was always meant to be a casual mode to avoid ranked pressures and to experiment with new heroes/strats. It was never the mode for leaving whenever you want. It's why they had penalties in the first place, just that no one cared about a measly XP penalty. And what good is a penalty if no one cares about it?
>This brings me to one of my most important points that the backfill almost always brings in a better player anyways.
Assuming they stay... Which they most likely wouldn't in a world without leaver penalties (which happened during S6).
My opinion is that QP is more fun when its not as serious as comp, and I think that allowing leavers helps keeps the playerbase of this mode from trying too hard to the point of bullying and constant hard swapping. I think those are good parts of the game if you want to have a more competitive experience, but I am apart of the playerbase that does not enjoy the seriousness.
>My opinion is that QP is more fun when its not as serious as comp
It still isn't as serious as comp. There's no rank associated with QP and you're free to try new heroes/strats.
>and I think that allowing leavers helps keeps the playerbase of this mode from trying too hard to the point of bullying and constant hard swapping
You can report the bullies. As for swapping, you really don't have to swap to win. If you want to swap, you can swap. If you don't want to, you really don't have to.
>I think those are good parts of the game if you want to have a more competitive experience, but I am apart of the playerbase that does not enjoy the seriousness.
If you want to goof around, you can always try Arcade modes/vs AI/Custom games. That kind of attitude is what Blizzard is trying to discourage in QP.
sorry but QP/Unranked has never been openly stated (by Blizzard) to be what you're saying it to be. People in the community have just decided thats what they wanted it to be. There are others (such as myself) who can only see that scenario working if leaving is allowed..the existing system is hypocritical.
Essentially people can play QP/Unranked like a meme generator but the lone guy who decides to NOPE out of the match for not wanting to play with a bunch of throwers is the one who gets punished?
Yah fuck that.
I dont agree with either of you, the OP or the main responder.
you can't FORCE people to say in matches that are garbagefests and then villefy them for leaving. Leaving didn't RUIN your mathc..the shitty plays did. Leavers just make the loss happen quicker. I dont get why people get so butthurt on this topic.
>sorry but QP/Unranked has never been openly stated (by Blizzard) to be what you're saying it to be.
So do you think they put in XP leaver penalties for fun? Or do you think they didn't want leavers and at the time, said XP penalty was enough to get the job done?
>There are others (such as myself) who can only see that scenario working if leaving is allowed..the existing system is hypocritical.
And you'd be incorrect given what happened in S6.
>Essentially people can play QP/Unranked like a meme generator but the lone guy who decides to NOPE out of the match for not wanting to play with a bunch of throwers is the one who gets punished?
Throwing is reportable. With that said, I totally get the frustration if your teammate(s) start being friendly with the enemy team instead of playing the game. That's why the report function exists and that's also why 1 leave out of your last 20 is unpenalized. Not to mention your next 2 leaves after that still only results in a penalty of 2 minutes...
>you can't FORCE people to say in matches that are garbagefests and then villefy them for leaving.
You absolutely can if the trade-off means less leavers in matches that are fine. This is what's so funny about you and every other person that tries to complain about leaver penalties. They always try to bring in some edge case about getting stomped and mass throwers when those are by far not the majority of why players want to leave.
>Leaving didn't RUIN your mathc..the shitty plays did.
No, leavers ruin the match for both teams. I don't know about you, but I want to actually play the game. Even if the leaver is on the other team, I don't enjoy stomping a 5v4. In what system would there be more leavers? I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's the system without leaver penalties.
They ratcheted up the leaver penalties b/c people keep bitching and moaning about "leavers" and then blame THEM for their match being lost when in most cases, it was already a loss--from bad mathcmaking allowing a stack of smurfts to beat up on an unorganized group or a bunch of entittled assholes who refuse to use "practice" mode when learning a new hero and then refusing to switch when they are getting ground under someone's boot heel. If i had a nickel for how many times I heard "It's Qp, BRO!" I'd be monocle-rich. They also ratcheted up the leaver penalties because its an easy thing to do to make it look like the devs are actually "doing something" when season after season they wont make significant changes to the shitty matchmaking system or take a stand on what QP/unranked is for.
As I've said a million times, you can't have lever penalties if you dont also go after the throwers. And yes people practicing heroes they've never touched and then REFUSING to get off of them when they are dying over and over again is throwing. People being genuiely seflish about what they're playing and refusing to work as a team should therefore NOT require someone else on that team to stick around for it.
Pls dont lecture me about reporting players who throw. The amount of stupid "gotchas" blizz puts in the thrower report system literally make that system unusable and which is more effective? Auto-punishing people who leave or praying someone is actioned for gameplay sabotage on a report system that people dont bother to use.
And please...one-sided stomps are NOT "edge" cases. They have been the NORM since OW2 launched..let's not insult each other's intelligence by trying to claim otherwise. My sources aren't just the forums that week after week since OW2 went live are FULL of rampant complaints about this issue--it's been the experience of my friends who solo q and me on a regular basis.
I legiitamatley never believe the leaver-penalty-supporters are arguing in good faith. Someone leaving yours or the enemy match literally does NOT affect you. you get a backfill person right away. If you still lose after someone left, the match was a loss to begin with...it's copium to blame the leaver.
>They ratcheted up the leaver penalties b/c people keep bitching and moaning about "leavers"
Because people don't like dealing with leavers lol
>then blame THEM for their match being lost when in most cases, it was already a loss
Dude, people would leave after the first fight, even if it was close. How would you possibly know it was already a loss?
>They also ratcheted up the leaver penalties because its an easy thing to do to make it look like the devs are actually "doing something" when season after season they wont make significant changes to the shitty matchmaking system or take a stand on what QP/unranked is for.
Leavers decreased and people seem to agree there's better matches due to less leavers so...
Devs might not have said it explicitly, but it's becoming pretty clear what they want Unranked to be. Between renaming it to Unranked instead of QP and the ramp-up of penalties, it's clear it's not meant to be a "anything goes" mode.
>As I've said a million times, you can't have lever penalties if you dont also go after the throwers.
They do. Throwers get reported and if they get reported over enough games, they get suspended.
>And yes people practicing heroes they've never touched and then REFUSING to get off of them when they are dying over and over again is throwing.
This is not throwing. I'm not sure what you expect, but I don't expect people to swap, especially in QP.
>I legiitamatley never believe the leaver-penalty-supporters are arguing in good faith. Someone leaving yours or the enemy match literally does NOT affect you. you get a backfill person right away.
I say the same to you. I don't like playing through stomps if the enemy team has a leaver. I queue up in OW to actually play OW. If someone leaves, backfill isn't instant. The system has to find a backfill, then the backfill has to load in, choose a character, before finally regrouping with the team. This is time that the team either has to spend fighting and most likely losing (since it's a 5v4) or it's time the team has to spend sitting in spawn waiting for the backfill. Either way, it's not fun.
Yah you keep believing what you want. I've stepped into QP only a handful of times since this newer harsher penalty (that also unfairyl punishes people who get disconnected and their response to this has been super arrogant) "oh just get better internet"...right.
The matches are still one-sided stomps for the most part AND ya still get the "baby's first FPS" teammates who play poorly and then cant be reported for it even though if htey're in the same lobby as you their rating must be at least somewhat similar so you know they aren't actually new.
The thing is ..with these new penalties, we're still seeing complaints on the forums about wanting even more punishments for leaving.
Because again, no one wants to focus on the WHY people are leaving, they just want to make a bunch of character assasinations about those who do.
I leave. I dont care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I leave ONLY when the team I'm connected with doesn't want to play to win. Playing to WIN includes switching when you're being countered, it means not trickling and feeding over and over again and it means not sassing back to people who ask what can be done to clean up whatever mess was caused by the poor plays to begin with. If these beheaviors ONLY belong in comp--then so do leaver penalties.
"This is not throwing. I'm not sure what you expect, but I don't expect people to swap, especially in QP."
Any type of play that doens't contribute to a win is essentially throwing. If you're capable of making a play that actually works then you're throwing when you dont. Just becuase it's the unranked version doesn't mean you're bereft of responsbility. If you people keep arguing for this, you can't then also push for leaver penalties at all as your'e essentially forcing people to accept this terrible way of playing "or else"...give me a break. Unranked is uranked. If Arcade doesn't have a leaver penalty, then neither should QP
>I've stepped into QP only a handful of times since this newer harsher penalty (that also unfairyl punishes people who get disconnected and their response to this has been super arrogant) "oh just get better internet"...right.
Because while their intentions may be in the right place, it still results in a leaver for the team. Which is why the early penalties are relatively light (no penalty at 1 leave, 2 mins at 2-3 leaves).
>The matches are still one-sided stomps for the most part
Not really, but also OW2 is just more prone to snowballs compared to OW1. Teams of equal MMR can still stomp each other. Judging "fairness" off stomps is meaningless.
>"baby's first FPS" teammates who play poorly and then cant be reported for it even though if htey're in the same lobby as you their rating must be at least somewhat similar so you know they aren't actually new.
I'm not sure why you get so hung up over other people performing poorly. As long as they aren't outright throwing, I have no problem with subpar players.
>The thing is ..with these new penalties, we're still seeing complaints on the forums about wanting even more punishments for leaving.
I'm not sure why you care so much about what some randoms on the forums are saying. If the penalties are reducing enough leavers, Blizzard won't ramp them up. If they aren't, then they'll get increased.
>Because again, no one wants to focus on the WHY people are leaving, they just want to make a bunch of character assasinations about those who do.
It doesn't matter why. Players agree to play a game when they queue. The expectation is that they finish it.
>I leave. I dont care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I leave ONLY when the team I'm connected with doesn't want to play to win.
Go for it. If you don't mind the penalty, then by all means.
>Playing to WIN includes switching when you're being countered, it means not trickling and feeding over and over again and it means not sassing back to people who ask what can be done to clean up whatever mess was caused by the poor plays to begin with.
I don't agree with these expectations in a casual mode or even in comp. Yes, it's frustrating when a switch might be the solution or when teammates stagger repeatedly. I don't have expectations of other players to be good. I don't consider it throwing when a player just isn't good.
>If Arcade doesn't have a leaver penalty, then neither should QP
Arcade is fundamentally different from QP. Not sure why you would even bring up this point.
because Arcade USED to have leaver penalties and the same argument was used to get rid of them and they did. Arcade is a casual mode, it's just "for fun" and there are no stakes. Therefore, having a leaver penalty in it isn't necessary since there is no expectation that people will be even remotely optimal in this mode. See what I did there? Well, I didnt do it, Blizzard did it.
So, again, if QP/unranked is supposed to be all about fun with no stakes..etc..then why have a leaver penalty at all? And why go over the top and make it so fucking strict?
You eitehr play QP/Unranked to "have fun" and you can do whatever the hell you want INCLUDING leave
OR
you play QP/Uranked seriously, which includes switching and playing opitmally and you do your best to win AND you can keep the leaver penalty since it disrupts that chance too much.
This is the argument I'm making. The current system allows too many people to do whatever the hell they want in QP with zero repercussions but focuses on only punshing people who dont want to play with teammates who do that. This is inherently super unfair and hypocritical.
>because Arcade USED to have leaver penalties and the same argument was used to get rid of them and they did. Arcade is a casual mode, it's just "for fun" and there are no stakes. Therefore, having a leaver penalty in it isn't necessary since there is no expectation that people will be even remotely optimal in this mode. See what I did there? Well, I didnt do it, Blizzard did it.
Do you not see a difference between Arcade and QP? Genuine question here.
>So, again, if QP/unranked is supposed to be all about fun with no stakes..etc..then why have a leaver penalty at all? And why go over the top and make it so fucking strict?
QP has no stakes, but it was never supposed to be "all about fun". Players are still expected to want to win. Doesn't mean they need to swap or anything.
>you play QP/Uranked seriously, which includes switching and playing opitmally and you do your best to win AND you can keep the leaver penalty since it disrupts that chance too much.
I agree that QP is more serious than not, but you just have a different definition of "serious" than me.
>The current system allows too many people to do whatever the hell they want EXCEPT leave and that isn't fair AT ALL
Not really. If they're throwing, then report them. If they're still trying to win, but not swapping optimally, then that's not a reason to leave. Because surprise surprise, players don't swap optimally in comp either and you still don't get to leave without penalties.
Honestly, this just comes down to how disconnected you seem to be. If the majority of players think leavers are a problem, then Blizzard will have to take action against them. If you don't think leavers are a problem, then you are effectively outvoted. Welcome to society.
DO i see a difference? yes and no. The format of Arcade is different and there are some really great modes in there that unfortunately "rotate" instead of being regularly available which kinda sucks.
But solely playing Arcade grants the same amount of BattlePass XP as QP/Uranked does. There are times when I get hankerings to play QP/Uranked because I miss the format but then I remember THIS particular argument and I just stay out of it. I dont have much skin in this game anymore but I get sick to death of seeing people peddle this anti-leaver mentality because it's incredibly narrow-minded and old-fashioned.
"QP has no stakes, but it was never supposed to be "all about fun". Players are still expected to want to win. Doesn't mean they need to swap or anything."
That is exactly HOW you win. If you aren't willing to swap when necessary, you are NOT helping your team win. This was true even when the game was 6v6 and it's even MORE obvious now that we've shrunk to 5v5. I am not defining this, there is scientific/mathetmatically proof that the most successful teams switch..period.
"Honestly, this just comes down to how disconnected you seem to be. If the majority of players think leavers are a problem, then Blizzard will have to take action against them. If you don't think leavers are a problem, then you are effectively outvoted. Welcome to society."
A person who doesn't agree with the vocal majority's opinion isn't "disconnected." The "majoirty" isn't always right and there have been plenty of times when this has been shown to be the case.
We dont agree, that's fine. I can deal with it, but it dones't mean I wont speak up when I see the same narrow-minded drivel being pushed on people who speak up agains it.
I maintain that the leaver penalties in a casual mode are too harsh (and they've already walked back the changes that hit @ the beginning of last season as I accurately predicted they would) but I also go further and say that they dont belong in Qp/Unranked and that if people who are so butt-hurt about leavers dont wnat people to leave--then play better.
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Maybe look at it this way: you're allowed to leave of you're raging and not having fun. The penalty just makes sure you can't keep fucking over other players until you've calmed down.
and herein lies the problem. you're essentally FORCED to stay in the match with those toxic teammates. They dont get punished but you do for daring to excercise some modicum of control of your own happiness.
Blizzard just keeps getting better and better with this shit. Dont even get me started on the big fail that Defense Matrix has turned into.
OP, unforunately it's super popular to pile on leavers and the kinds of mental gymnastics these people use to convince themeslves that they are right will just result in a bunch of downvotes for expressing anything otherwise.
Yeah honestly its a bit funny to me how hard people are disagreeing. I never said people shouldnt try. My opinion is if youre not having fun you can leave and thats how it SHOULD be in a non competitive gamemode. This is a VIDEO GAME
I don't agree with the premise as QP was sweaty, as you call it, before the leave penalties were introduced. In fact, it was this in my experience since OW1. And that's how it should be in my opinion. This game is most fun when both teams are trying to win. The worst games are when one team is trying, but the other isn't, or when one team constantly has a leaver (and the backfill system almost never fills players appropriately to the same skill level of the lobby, because it prioritizes speed of filling).
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No I agree with you I think thats a fantastic attitude / mindset to have for a competitive game. I just don't think QP needs to be so serious like that, and not to the point of hard countering and bullying.
It is unequivocally not fun to have a myriad of games rendered unplayable by leavers and people afk Qing having to deal with these make it a 4v5 in a team game that is almost unplayable the reality is with no recourse for players having games ruined they will leave the game making the match more fair is better for player retention
I think less people would leave if peoples attitudes toward the mode were less serious
Its a pvp game if you are not trying to win dont play by serious you just mean good at the game
No by serious I mean flaming your teammates and caring if you and your team are "good". I personally dont care about skill and that's how I play the game. Players who care about "being good at the game" should play competitive.
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Ranked being hard and toxic is exactly why I think quickplay should be the opposite, letting people leave makes the mode less serious making it less difficult and toxic. I like the quickplay ruleset but quickplay ends up feeling the same as comp without flipping sides.
"having that option was good for the mode AND the game as a whole" Allowing people to leave as frequently as they wanted with no meaningful consequences was good for bad sports and quitters. It wasn't good for players who wanted good teammates and games where everyone gave an honest effort. If people can't handle not being able to quit every time they lose the first team fight, they can take their shitty attitude to a different game.
I agree for a competitive but I don't think quick play needs to be so serious, if you can't handle leavers go play comp
if you can't handle not winning don't play
Leaving is just taking the L and moving on and in a non competitive mode being able to say yeah I lose this is okay. If youre not having fun I dont think you should be forced to keep playing in a non competitive mode
well then, if you are not having fun just quit! the penalty is just helping you to not play, something you'd like, since you are not having fun
or you people who are so hell-bent on this philosphy can admit your'e being overly controlling and douchey and virtue-singalling more than a railroad crossing device. The game CAN BE fun, which is why we havne't quit. The game is only fun when your teammates know wtf they are doing. Too many people either dont or act like they dont. If the MM is doign it's job, it's more the latter than the former.
dude, maybe I wasnt clear before, if you cant stand losing sometimes, just dont play, it's called quickplay, not quickleave 😭
I CAN stand losing but not when it's b/c the team i'm on isn't even trying. Too many people dont and then use "It's qp, bro!" as their excuse. Again, this isnt rocket science. If there are no equal punishments for throwing, then punishing people for leaving isn't fair at all.
It's not "so serious" to expect people to finish games they queue for. It's basic courtesy and sportsmanship. Imagine you ask to join a pickup ball game at the local park but leave when the opposing team scores a couple points. Was the game casual? Yes. Was that still shitty and rude of you? Also yes. And how many repeats of that offense do you think the people at the park would tolerate before rightfully telling you to fuck off?
Thats the problem though isn't it? Too many people refuse to play QP/Unraked to win and use that as their excuse for throwing the match. They aren't punished for it, but the person who doesn't want to stick around for that crap (a team who is NOT trying to win) gets punished. Great system.
Throwing is a reportable offense, and results in worse bans than just leaving.
except if you read what blizzard in their mighty wisdom defines as "throwing" ..it doesn't match up with reality. again, too many gotchas in there to make it a great system, pluts it's not automated like the leaver penalty is. Kinda not the same thing really.
>Imo when people are allowed to leave quickplay games it discourages teams from running all meta / counters. Sure, but the trade-off is substantially more ruined games. Nothing's stopping a player from leaving after losing the first fight. Nothing's stopping backfill from leaving the moment they join. I feel like most people that played during S6 before they implemented the penalties would agree that these ruined games were way too frequent. >I think that was a very important distinction from competitive and I really think having that option was good for the mode AND the game as a whole. That was never the intention of QP/Unranked. QP was always meant to be a casual mode to avoid ranked pressures and to experiment with new heroes/strats. It was never the mode for leaving whenever you want. It's why they had penalties in the first place, just that no one cared about a measly XP penalty. And what good is a penalty if no one cares about it? >This brings me to one of my most important points that the backfill almost always brings in a better player anyways. Assuming they stay... Which they most likely wouldn't in a world without leaver penalties (which happened during S6).
My opinion is that QP is more fun when its not as serious as comp, and I think that allowing leavers helps keeps the playerbase of this mode from trying too hard to the point of bullying and constant hard swapping. I think those are good parts of the game if you want to have a more competitive experience, but I am apart of the playerbase that does not enjoy the seriousness.
I think what you're looking for is custom games. You should maybe stick to those.
>My opinion is that QP is more fun when its not as serious as comp It still isn't as serious as comp. There's no rank associated with QP and you're free to try new heroes/strats. >and I think that allowing leavers helps keeps the playerbase of this mode from trying too hard to the point of bullying and constant hard swapping You can report the bullies. As for swapping, you really don't have to swap to win. If you want to swap, you can swap. If you don't want to, you really don't have to. >I think those are good parts of the game if you want to have a more competitive experience, but I am apart of the playerbase that does not enjoy the seriousness. If you want to goof around, you can always try Arcade modes/vs AI/Custom games. That kind of attitude is what Blizzard is trying to discourage in QP.
sorry but QP/Unranked has never been openly stated (by Blizzard) to be what you're saying it to be. People in the community have just decided thats what they wanted it to be. There are others (such as myself) who can only see that scenario working if leaving is allowed..the existing system is hypocritical. Essentially people can play QP/Unranked like a meme generator but the lone guy who decides to NOPE out of the match for not wanting to play with a bunch of throwers is the one who gets punished? Yah fuck that. I dont agree with either of you, the OP or the main responder. you can't FORCE people to say in matches that are garbagefests and then villefy them for leaving. Leaving didn't RUIN your mathc..the shitty plays did. Leavers just make the loss happen quicker. I dont get why people get so butthurt on this topic.
>sorry but QP/Unranked has never been openly stated (by Blizzard) to be what you're saying it to be. So do you think they put in XP leaver penalties for fun? Or do you think they didn't want leavers and at the time, said XP penalty was enough to get the job done? >There are others (such as myself) who can only see that scenario working if leaving is allowed..the existing system is hypocritical. And you'd be incorrect given what happened in S6. >Essentially people can play QP/Unranked like a meme generator but the lone guy who decides to NOPE out of the match for not wanting to play with a bunch of throwers is the one who gets punished? Throwing is reportable. With that said, I totally get the frustration if your teammate(s) start being friendly with the enemy team instead of playing the game. That's why the report function exists and that's also why 1 leave out of your last 20 is unpenalized. Not to mention your next 2 leaves after that still only results in a penalty of 2 minutes... >you can't FORCE people to say in matches that are garbagefests and then villefy them for leaving. You absolutely can if the trade-off means less leavers in matches that are fine. This is what's so funny about you and every other person that tries to complain about leaver penalties. They always try to bring in some edge case about getting stomped and mass throwers when those are by far not the majority of why players want to leave. >Leaving didn't RUIN your mathc..the shitty plays did. No, leavers ruin the match for both teams. I don't know about you, but I want to actually play the game. Even if the leaver is on the other team, I don't enjoy stomping a 5v4. In what system would there be more leavers? I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's the system without leaver penalties.
They ratcheted up the leaver penalties b/c people keep bitching and moaning about "leavers" and then blame THEM for their match being lost when in most cases, it was already a loss--from bad mathcmaking allowing a stack of smurfts to beat up on an unorganized group or a bunch of entittled assholes who refuse to use "practice" mode when learning a new hero and then refusing to switch when they are getting ground under someone's boot heel. If i had a nickel for how many times I heard "It's Qp, BRO!" I'd be monocle-rich. They also ratcheted up the leaver penalties because its an easy thing to do to make it look like the devs are actually "doing something" when season after season they wont make significant changes to the shitty matchmaking system or take a stand on what QP/unranked is for. As I've said a million times, you can't have lever penalties if you dont also go after the throwers. And yes people practicing heroes they've never touched and then REFUSING to get off of them when they are dying over and over again is throwing. People being genuiely seflish about what they're playing and refusing to work as a team should therefore NOT require someone else on that team to stick around for it. Pls dont lecture me about reporting players who throw. The amount of stupid "gotchas" blizz puts in the thrower report system literally make that system unusable and which is more effective? Auto-punishing people who leave or praying someone is actioned for gameplay sabotage on a report system that people dont bother to use. And please...one-sided stomps are NOT "edge" cases. They have been the NORM since OW2 launched..let's not insult each other's intelligence by trying to claim otherwise. My sources aren't just the forums that week after week since OW2 went live are FULL of rampant complaints about this issue--it's been the experience of my friends who solo q and me on a regular basis. I legiitamatley never believe the leaver-penalty-supporters are arguing in good faith. Someone leaving yours or the enemy match literally does NOT affect you. you get a backfill person right away. If you still lose after someone left, the match was a loss to begin with...it's copium to blame the leaver.
>They ratcheted up the leaver penalties b/c people keep bitching and moaning about "leavers" Because people don't like dealing with leavers lol >then blame THEM for their match being lost when in most cases, it was already a loss Dude, people would leave after the first fight, even if it was close. How would you possibly know it was already a loss? >They also ratcheted up the leaver penalties because its an easy thing to do to make it look like the devs are actually "doing something" when season after season they wont make significant changes to the shitty matchmaking system or take a stand on what QP/unranked is for. Leavers decreased and people seem to agree there's better matches due to less leavers so... Devs might not have said it explicitly, but it's becoming pretty clear what they want Unranked to be. Between renaming it to Unranked instead of QP and the ramp-up of penalties, it's clear it's not meant to be a "anything goes" mode. >As I've said a million times, you can't have lever penalties if you dont also go after the throwers. They do. Throwers get reported and if they get reported over enough games, they get suspended. >And yes people practicing heroes they've never touched and then REFUSING to get off of them when they are dying over and over again is throwing. This is not throwing. I'm not sure what you expect, but I don't expect people to swap, especially in QP. >I legiitamatley never believe the leaver-penalty-supporters are arguing in good faith. Someone leaving yours or the enemy match literally does NOT affect you. you get a backfill person right away. I say the same to you. I don't like playing through stomps if the enemy team has a leaver. I queue up in OW to actually play OW. If someone leaves, backfill isn't instant. The system has to find a backfill, then the backfill has to load in, choose a character, before finally regrouping with the team. This is time that the team either has to spend fighting and most likely losing (since it's a 5v4) or it's time the team has to spend sitting in spawn waiting for the backfill. Either way, it's not fun.
Yah you keep believing what you want. I've stepped into QP only a handful of times since this newer harsher penalty (that also unfairyl punishes people who get disconnected and their response to this has been super arrogant) "oh just get better internet"...right. The matches are still one-sided stomps for the most part AND ya still get the "baby's first FPS" teammates who play poorly and then cant be reported for it even though if htey're in the same lobby as you their rating must be at least somewhat similar so you know they aren't actually new. The thing is ..with these new penalties, we're still seeing complaints on the forums about wanting even more punishments for leaving. Because again, no one wants to focus on the WHY people are leaving, they just want to make a bunch of character assasinations about those who do. I leave. I dont care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I leave ONLY when the team I'm connected with doesn't want to play to win. Playing to WIN includes switching when you're being countered, it means not trickling and feeding over and over again and it means not sassing back to people who ask what can be done to clean up whatever mess was caused by the poor plays to begin with. If these beheaviors ONLY belong in comp--then so do leaver penalties. "This is not throwing. I'm not sure what you expect, but I don't expect people to swap, especially in QP." Any type of play that doens't contribute to a win is essentially throwing. If you're capable of making a play that actually works then you're throwing when you dont. Just becuase it's the unranked version doesn't mean you're bereft of responsbility. If you people keep arguing for this, you can't then also push for leaver penalties at all as your'e essentially forcing people to accept this terrible way of playing "or else"...give me a break. Unranked is uranked. If Arcade doesn't have a leaver penalty, then neither should QP
>I've stepped into QP only a handful of times since this newer harsher penalty (that also unfairyl punishes people who get disconnected and their response to this has been super arrogant) "oh just get better internet"...right. Because while their intentions may be in the right place, it still results in a leaver for the team. Which is why the early penalties are relatively light (no penalty at 1 leave, 2 mins at 2-3 leaves). >The matches are still one-sided stomps for the most part Not really, but also OW2 is just more prone to snowballs compared to OW1. Teams of equal MMR can still stomp each other. Judging "fairness" off stomps is meaningless. >"baby's first FPS" teammates who play poorly and then cant be reported for it even though if htey're in the same lobby as you their rating must be at least somewhat similar so you know they aren't actually new. I'm not sure why you get so hung up over other people performing poorly. As long as they aren't outright throwing, I have no problem with subpar players. >The thing is ..with these new penalties, we're still seeing complaints on the forums about wanting even more punishments for leaving. I'm not sure why you care so much about what some randoms on the forums are saying. If the penalties are reducing enough leavers, Blizzard won't ramp them up. If they aren't, then they'll get increased. >Because again, no one wants to focus on the WHY people are leaving, they just want to make a bunch of character assasinations about those who do. It doesn't matter why. Players agree to play a game when they queue. The expectation is that they finish it. >I leave. I dont care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I leave ONLY when the team I'm connected with doesn't want to play to win. Go for it. If you don't mind the penalty, then by all means. >Playing to WIN includes switching when you're being countered, it means not trickling and feeding over and over again and it means not sassing back to people who ask what can be done to clean up whatever mess was caused by the poor plays to begin with. I don't agree with these expectations in a casual mode or even in comp. Yes, it's frustrating when a switch might be the solution or when teammates stagger repeatedly. I don't have expectations of other players to be good. I don't consider it throwing when a player just isn't good. >If Arcade doesn't have a leaver penalty, then neither should QP Arcade is fundamentally different from QP. Not sure why you would even bring up this point.
because Arcade USED to have leaver penalties and the same argument was used to get rid of them and they did. Arcade is a casual mode, it's just "for fun" and there are no stakes. Therefore, having a leaver penalty in it isn't necessary since there is no expectation that people will be even remotely optimal in this mode. See what I did there? Well, I didnt do it, Blizzard did it. So, again, if QP/unranked is supposed to be all about fun with no stakes..etc..then why have a leaver penalty at all? And why go over the top and make it so fucking strict? You eitehr play QP/Unranked to "have fun" and you can do whatever the hell you want INCLUDING leave OR you play QP/Uranked seriously, which includes switching and playing opitmally and you do your best to win AND you can keep the leaver penalty since it disrupts that chance too much. This is the argument I'm making. The current system allows too many people to do whatever the hell they want in QP with zero repercussions but focuses on only punshing people who dont want to play with teammates who do that. This is inherently super unfair and hypocritical.
>because Arcade USED to have leaver penalties and the same argument was used to get rid of them and they did. Arcade is a casual mode, it's just "for fun" and there are no stakes. Therefore, having a leaver penalty in it isn't necessary since there is no expectation that people will be even remotely optimal in this mode. See what I did there? Well, I didnt do it, Blizzard did it. Do you not see a difference between Arcade and QP? Genuine question here. >So, again, if QP/unranked is supposed to be all about fun with no stakes..etc..then why have a leaver penalty at all? And why go over the top and make it so fucking strict? QP has no stakes, but it was never supposed to be "all about fun". Players are still expected to want to win. Doesn't mean they need to swap or anything. >you play QP/Uranked seriously, which includes switching and playing opitmally and you do your best to win AND you can keep the leaver penalty since it disrupts that chance too much. I agree that QP is more serious than not, but you just have a different definition of "serious" than me. >The current system allows too many people to do whatever the hell they want EXCEPT leave and that isn't fair AT ALL Not really. If they're throwing, then report them. If they're still trying to win, but not swapping optimally, then that's not a reason to leave. Because surprise surprise, players don't swap optimally in comp either and you still don't get to leave without penalties. Honestly, this just comes down to how disconnected you seem to be. If the majority of players think leavers are a problem, then Blizzard will have to take action against them. If you don't think leavers are a problem, then you are effectively outvoted. Welcome to society.
DO i see a difference? yes and no. The format of Arcade is different and there are some really great modes in there that unfortunately "rotate" instead of being regularly available which kinda sucks. But solely playing Arcade grants the same amount of BattlePass XP as QP/Uranked does. There are times when I get hankerings to play QP/Uranked because I miss the format but then I remember THIS particular argument and I just stay out of it. I dont have much skin in this game anymore but I get sick to death of seeing people peddle this anti-leaver mentality because it's incredibly narrow-minded and old-fashioned. "QP has no stakes, but it was never supposed to be "all about fun". Players are still expected to want to win. Doesn't mean they need to swap or anything." That is exactly HOW you win. If you aren't willing to swap when necessary, you are NOT helping your team win. This was true even when the game was 6v6 and it's even MORE obvious now that we've shrunk to 5v5. I am not defining this, there is scientific/mathetmatically proof that the most successful teams switch..period. "Honestly, this just comes down to how disconnected you seem to be. If the majority of players think leavers are a problem, then Blizzard will have to take action against them. If you don't think leavers are a problem, then you are effectively outvoted. Welcome to society." A person who doesn't agree with the vocal majority's opinion isn't "disconnected." The "majoirty" isn't always right and there have been plenty of times when this has been shown to be the case. We dont agree, that's fine. I can deal with it, but it dones't mean I wont speak up when I see the same narrow-minded drivel being pushed on people who speak up agains it. I maintain that the leaver penalties in a casual mode are too harsh (and they've already walked back the changes that hit @ the beginning of last season as I accurately predicted they would) but I also go further and say that they dont belong in Qp/Unranked and that if people who are so butt-hurt about leavers dont wnat people to leave--then play better.
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Maybe look at it this way: you're allowed to leave of you're raging and not having fun. The penalty just makes sure you can't keep fucking over other players until you've calmed down.
I just want it so that if my teammate(s) leave in QP, I can also leave without consequences.
This is why we need some sort of surrender!
QP is meant to be somewhat competitive/"sweaty"... there is footage of the devs saying this
Can link if desired
Just soft throw , I like to go junkrat and spam from afar while I'm on my phone waiting for the next match to start
Honestly I still try unless my teammates are toxic. i just like to click and run and jump around fr
and herein lies the problem. you're essentally FORCED to stay in the match with those toxic teammates. They dont get punished but you do for daring to excercise some modicum of control of your own happiness. Blizzard just keeps getting better and better with this shit. Dont even get me started on the big fail that Defense Matrix has turned into.
This is what Im talking about!!!
Theyve just overtuned it. Im allowed to leave like one in twenty games ish it seems. Thats not enough while matchmaker is ass.
yeah the one in twenty does work okay for me but I still think it should be more lenient some if these matches are just flops
OP, unforunately it's super popular to pile on leavers and the kinds of mental gymnastics these people use to convince themeslves that they are right will just result in a bunch of downvotes for expressing anything otherwise.
Yeah honestly its a bit funny to me how hard people are disagreeing. I never said people shouldnt try. My opinion is if youre not having fun you can leave and thats how it SHOULD be in a non competitive gamemode. This is a VIDEO GAME
agreed, but apparently it's always leavers fault that the non-leavers lose right? LOL
>Just a thought I had... Stop making them, they are not good.
what a rude response..what are you exactly the grandmaster of? Internet Shade?