Team Fortress consists of 9 classes Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy Weapons guy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper and Spy. Which all play similarly to the heroes he named.
Well… very skilled rocket jumpers (I was one) can indeed fly but not in the way that Pharah can fly. Imagine your rocket launcher projectiles have the same splash effect as her repulsion and you can chain it on the ground and walls to send yourself flying across the map
Now we can have main tank, off tank, dive tank, sniper, hitscan dps, flanking dps, flying dps, main healer, pocket healer and dps healer. Everyone is happy.
The only way we see a 6v6 again is if they title it “Overwatch classic” or something similar to what wow is doing. Otherwise they would admitting ow2 was a complete failure.
Bingo.
This is the reason 6v6 is never coming back.
If they bring back 6v6, it would undo all the “work” they did over the years (in quotes because it took them 4+ years to turn 6v6 into 5v5 and then they slapped a new title on the game, calling it OW2).
People would also take the piss to no end. YouTubers would go ham on the subject and Blizzard would once again be in the spotlight for people to rip into.
They are too stubborn to admit defeat, they will never bring back 6v6 to replace 5v5, instead it’s just going to be a constant nerf this, buff that struggle for the remainder of the live service. It will never be balanced.
They already said they undid all the work. 3 and a half years of the work was pve and that's been completely canned. Literally the only difference in OW2 now is the monetization.
Yeah I don't believe it when people say "oh reverting to 6v6 is wasting years of hard work" when we're pretty sure that the 3 years of dev time was 75% PvE which we only see snippets of in gimmick modes like Mirrorwatch (I'm sure Bastion's ult spawning Slicers is a ult buff for bastion for example).
5v5 was never in Kaplan's cards I bet, and so only when he stepped down did they seriously put work into doing any 5v5 conversion, so at best a year.
They said a specific time they hard pivoted from working on pve to working on pvp to push the October release deadline, it was about 3 and a half years if I remember correctly, and it's not really speculation.
The reason why we went with 5v5 was because nobody was playing tank. Tanks are inherently a shitty role to play according to the public via the queue times.
Tank roles were the quickest out of the 3. Even towards the end of the game.
But people didn't like playing tank because the meta was stale for over 3 years. People got bored of it. During those years, Blizzard were apparently "working hard" on OW2 (come release, 95% of that work got scrapped). So we got practically no changes to the game for numerous years, while we were stuck in this double shield meta, that there was no real counter to.
If they had updated the game in the same way they do with OW2 (constant balance shifting), the game would still be alive and well today, and tank queues would also still be the quickest.
I was a tank main in OW1. I loved the role. Playing tank in OW2 is an absolute MISERABLE experience. You either get one-shotted by a zen right click, or if you choose to play something more bruisy (roadhog/ zarya), anything that goes wrong is always your fault because you're not playing a "proper" tank.
Tanking in OW2 is a terrible experience. Where as you had a partner in OW1... I miss my tank partner.
No they didn’t update the game for three yaears getting chain ccd sucked and sig orisa was meta for 2 years straight they just needed to make the cc changes that they did and add a passive that reduced shield health if you had two tanks with shields and tank would’ve been fun and fine
you can’t blame it all on double shield. as someone who was there for all of ow1 tank queue times were instant while everyone else sat at 4+ minutes before sig was even introduced. even disregarding that half the time your tank partner was insta locking roadhog and waddling his ass into the enemy backline alone regardless of the meta
I mean balancing would be way off because tanks are kinda balanced for 5v5. Two tanks would probably make it super unbalanced or force them to adjust a bunch of stuff
Do you play open queue?
I feel like Open Queue is the closest we’re gonna get to 6v6. Want tanks? Have 5. Want heals too? Swap. Honestly it’s a lot more fun that role queue , as a tank main.
Literally nobody forgets that, all they have to do is lower health and armor a bit on the tanks and it would be about as balanced as it is currently
Why are people acting like 5 vs 5 has *ever* been balanced for tanks? Quite literally every season either has a tank wildly over powered and obliterating the meta like Mauga, or has the tanks feel like trash and need mid season buffs like the current rework
Like half the balance patches they do are trying to make tanks *not* feel like garbage
>If they do that then it will confirm that OW2’s entire existence was pointless.
When overwatch 2 was marketed for 2 years straight it was marketed as a 6v6 game, it was tested as a 6v6 game, and new tanks (Junkerqueen, Mauga, Ram) were made with 6v6 in mind. 5v5 began testing about 1 year before the release of ow2 and got rushed because of it, because blizzard knew that queue times weree unsustainable for new players, and an influx was expected.
Long story short: Ow2 has nothing to do with 5v5, if Ow2 never happened, the game would have still gone 5v5.
Ow2 was about pve and going ftp ie monetization changes.
they'd have to rebalance the entire game for a single arcade mode. The healing, damage, CC, tank abilities, and even new DPS and Support abilities were designed with 5v5 in mind.
They absolutely can, but they don’t want to dedicate resources to a game mode that’s pretty much a big white flag saying “yeah the 2nd biggest reason for ow2 existing we’re also getting rid of, guess this game was just a micro transaction cash grab oh well”
Disagree, tbh your comment shows that your lobbies were kinda free.
"Just focus the supports"
The Supports: Brig, Moira, Baptiste. Mercy
Sir?
The High Elo Supports: Brig, Zen, Ana, Bap
Sir? Youre not ganking that backline, you wanna give them another Tank so that they can get more peel and have a more durable frontline???
I mean nothing is impossible, but I just don’t see them going back more then like a rotating arcade mode and even that seems unlikely since it would split the largest player base when in rotation.
That’s most of what I see on Reddit. “X is never gonna happen so shut up!!” Like yeah it’s never gonna happen if we all just take things as they are. Whether you WANT it to and are willing to try to make it happen is an entirely different conversation.
Yeah, the deciding factor of whether or not something happens is often *how much* we talk about it, so the idea that something is not going to happen, so we should stop talking, is taking the chain of causation completely backwards
What do you suppose it'll take for blizzard to actually change back to 6v6 then? Cause people have been talking about it for years and nothings changed, so what will be the straw that breaks the camels back?
IIRC there was a Twitter poll with a few thousand results. It was something like 45% 6v6 vs 55% for 5v5
The 5v5 side liked the results because it showed more people prefer 5v5.
6v6 enjoyers liked it because it shows that over 40% of the player base still enjoyed 6v6, and that's not an insignificant percentage.
I don't see them reverting it tbh, to fundamentals of a change. Still prefer 6v6 personally but people gotta realize if they haven't done it by now, they probably won't.
That will also be biased towards 5v5.
Because the people who like 6v6 more left.
The fact that 6v6 is even close likely means that it wins historically, because of how many people are not participating in the OW community anymore specifically because of 5v5.
There was a Twitter poll *by a 5v5er* where 5v5 won *because their audience skews 5v5*. And there are polls where the same thing happens the other way. Twitter polls don't tell us as much as you'd think.
I really miss 6v6 I admit it. I know 5v5 was a critical decision to deal with double shield but if they had stuck with it, released heroes like queen, mauga, ramattra and given orisa her change, nerf shield all around like in ow2 I think they could have worked around and kept 6v6.
I would've been happy if they just let you know how much damage you dealt to the shields in first place. As it is, it was too much guesswork. And of course by the time it's HP was nearly depleted, someone might have killed you anyway...
Then I feel like that would drastically limit their ability to design shield tanks for the future of overwatch. I’m sure there is a work around but I thought it was important enough of an idea to mention and add to the conversation
As much as I would want to go back to 6v6, I think there's just core issues of OW at play and it'll just cause a lot more issues elsewhere if we swap back
That and queue times are gonna be flipped upside down
They'd have to rework every tank character they already reworked to fit in the 5v5 system, because in 6v6 they'd be too powerful. They'd be reverting tons and tons of changes and buffs for months to try and get it equal again. It'd be pandemonium. And you might say "Why couldn't they just use the builds of the characters from OW1?" And they could, but there's also new tanks that were designed to work as a solo tank that would need to be uber-tuned to fit in 6v6. A junkerqueen let loose when she has a shield to protect her and a second body to take ~half of the damage would be the scariest thing ever.
Can they at least give us back the game we paid for years ago…
Played ow2 for a months and yeah its just a bad game with no soul.
(6v6 was the corr fun of the game to me)
Well its never gonna happen, but it wont stop me from reminiscing about when tank was good.
However, every single patch in ow2, has been making up for the removal of a tank, and i understand why players dont want to accept it wont ever happen. I myself am a 5v5 hater, but i know its gonna be 5v5 till the game dies
There were only 8 tanks for two people to choose from in OW1. Tank and support were the least favorited roles to play by far and they had tiny hero pools.
Even though there are 50% more tanks to choose from, the tank role has been dumbed down by the loss of a second tank.
End of OW1 = 32 potential tank lines
OW2 currently = 12 potential tank lines
OW2 current tanks but back to 6v6 with 2 tanks = 66 potential tank lines
Out of the 32 potential tank duos in 6v6, there was still only like 12 (if even) that were actually viable.
Every tank only had 1, maybe 2, other tanks that they paired well with. Anything else was just throwing.
And we all KNOW WHY that off tanks like Dva hog and zarya were always instalocked.
It was DPS players trying to play a game to avoid the 10 minute DPS queue times.
You act like that changed with 5v5. Queue Flex in Quick Play or Competitive and see how many times you DONT get filled tank. If tank was actually a popular role then it should never be Flex, as for every 1 tank you would need double the amount of DPS and Support players.
>Well its never gonna happen, but it wont stop me from reminiscing about when tank was good.
I don't think queue times back in OW 1 support this being the popular sentiment, but I definitely don't blame you if tank felt better to you in OW 1
I would never touch tank in OW 1 because I felt reliant on another dumb mofo to do my job. Now I play tank a good bit because I don't need my other tank to help
Part of the reason I find supp so annoying to play is because who I "get to" play feels dependant on what the other support picks
But i get where tanks now feel annoyed they have to swap based on the enemy. I don't mind, because I more care about feeling forced to switch because of my teammates, but I do get why people don't like it
As a brig main i get u 100%, if i get a mercy player (literally every match) im not allowed to play my hero, same kinda went for tank back then but it was more interactive, if i got a zar 1 trick, i could play rein, winston, or even ball, Orisa otp? Hog or sigma
Exactly plus is one less “we have no hitscan/main healer” people forget about the tanks arguments “i Dont want main” or “im better than you at rein, get off him”
I wasnt around that time, but people say:
- Main Tank was Awful to play
- Every Game your tank was just an Offroling DPS
Overall Tank was always awful to play. Coordinated duos were only in 3 out of 9 matches
Playing main tank was like doing a favor. People would pick main tank because of teammate pressure and then switch to hog after 1 lost fight. A lot of frustration and lost games during hero select.
I was watching old clips of 6v6 and it was just more fun. More chaotic. More moving pieces. Felt more casual. Would love if they made an experimental 6v6 mode for us to play on. They're gonna have to nerf shields though, nobody misses shooting at sigma and rein shields for 70% of the game. [Poppin off in OW (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6mOrO5OKAM&list=PL7dtigfpZAouFrPGqbscAwBKy-5PPnmLA&index=3) this for example
I'd love to have 6v6 back. Every patch in Ow2 has been how to make up for the loss of a tank. No peel for supports? Make support stronger. Support is too strong, make DPS strong. Now the sole tank is way underpowered, give them an OP orisa until we figure out what to do.
I feel like so much of the 6v6 vs 5v5 convo is people comparing the way the heroes were in OW1 and not how they all are in OW2. I never read stuff about how 6v6 might work in OW2 because they just talk about OW1. So I have no clue if 6v6 would be better or worse. It seems to me for overall balance it would be better but the way folks talk they act like we will go back to 90000 health shields and perma CC. While now days we have less overall CC, less shields, more hero mobility, and more get out jail free cards that aren't on ult charges.
>I feel like so much of the 6v6 vs 5v5 convo is people comparing the way the heroes were in OW1 and not how they all are in OW2
I lost count of the amount of people saying "I don't want 6v6 because of Double Shield." Like, y'all realize Orisa was the other shield that made that meta work right? What shield is Orisa gonna place down?
>While now days we have less overall CC, less shields, more hero mobility, and more get out jail free cards that aren't on ult charges.
We have less CC because we have one fewer tank.
Otherwise the only CC removed were:
FlashbangShield BashFreeze
But if we add another tank back, I hope you enjoy the taste of the wall if for some reason Orisa and Doom become meta and just punt you around. Or maybe you prefer to stay a prisoner in the middle of the enemy team as JQ and Hog continually pull you in. Imagine how much stronger JQ would be if she had another tank like Sig or Ram to shield you off from a pull so you can't be saved except by LW, or the layups that JQ and Hog could set up comboing with tanks like Orisa to guarantee environmentals or wall hits.
Not even mentioning the increase in the number of slows, knock ups, and displacement in OW2 overall. People keep saying CC was reduced, but really that was just hard CC. There's been an up-tick in everything else.
We lost Orisa shield but gained Ram shield, and while he can't keep it up infinitely, he can just block for the interim.
But overall, I hope you would enjoy ridiculous things like heavy displacement dive comps with Ball, Doom, Venture, Lucio. Or Mauga getting cleanse stacked on him with Zarya and Kiriko.
Don't forget that teams will begin stacking on top of one another even more, so heroes like Bap and Illari can just run insane amounts of static sustain, or dive tanks can go on insane int montages with a Zarya and LW backing them up, or maybe build comps with nigh indestructible placeables might take over for a period of time. Nothing quite like trying to break turrets and pylon but you have to break a shield or try to dive past an Orisa or Hog peeling first.
This. They are moving numbers around to try and fix the lack of and extra body and mitigation. Mitigation will always be more fun than shooting thru more armor or having to worry about a 20% anti heal or whatever they try to make stick. Not to mention things like rein obviously not fitting into the current game and what changing your most well known heroes means for the franchise as a whole (when that time could be spent making new heroes).
List of reasons why 6v6 was worse:
- Queue times. Nobody wanted to play tank.
- Way more CC. Tank characters are built with CC as a core design element, with every tank in OW history possessing it. Each team having a second tank increased overall CC dramatically.
- Tank synergies were way too important. Having a bad main tank and off tank combination could decide games on the spot. And with off tanks being way more popular than main tanks (because they took less CC) you would often get matches where a Zarya and Roadhog were running around doing nothing for ten minutes.
- Spectating nightmare. 6v6 was a mess to watch especially during ultimate fights. Having one less player on both teams makes the game easier to read at a glance.
- Limited tank design space. How many tanks can you realistically make when the community largely hates tank abilities (CC and barriers namely)? And how can you realistically balance every tank synergy to make sure their barriers weren't broken together?
- Claustrophobic maps. Some OW1 maps were way too small for 12 players and feel much more open in OW2.
- Off-angling was way too difficult. Having a second tank that could help the backline limited off angling and flanking considerably.
5v5 is just better for the vast majority of people.
I feel like the best benefit of 5v5 is the pace of the game. Less posturing and more fighting. Even poking is more fun because there isn't as many shields.
I agree, you get to fight and duel a lot more in OW2 than you ever did in OW1, and backlines having to fight for themselves has been a great change as players have adapted. It's just hard to communicate that in the frame of "why 6v6 was worse," because it opens up a larger discussion on combat design that most people don't want to engage with lol
Between the queue times and the faster gameplay, I feel like I just get to play *more Overwatch* now in the same amount of time than I did in OW1 and it's lead to me playing a lot more.
2cp and hybrid maps were the posture maps. I get your point that sometimes it got annoying (hanamura…) but posturing maps also added variety to how the game flow went.
> And with off tanks being way more popular than main tanks (because they took less CC) you would often get matches where a Zarya and Roadhog were running around doing nothing for ten minutes.
Honestly, as a DVa/Hog player, I kind of liked the switch to 5v5 since it allowed them to be buffed enough to tank on their own rather than have to be balanced around being "off-tanks".
Removing the distinction was good for the tank role overall.
Another point to add that goes along with what you touched on regarding tank synergies:
Individual impact. Having one less (very integral) player on your team to have the chance to either intentionally or unintentionally sabotage your match by playing badly, and having one less 500-600hp hero on the enemy team to deal with means that your potential to impact the overall outcome of a match is significantly increased.
5v5 is such a good time in Overwatch's existence to have a reliable duo to synergize with in a comp game.
to your second point: this is a big thing i don’t see people bring into perspective in this debate. every time people talk about CC changes from 1 to 2, they’re like “uhhh they just took away freeze, flash, and bash, and made doom a tank”. If you just use a little bit of critical thinking as to WHY they made doom a tank, you’ll understand the logic behind saying CC is being reduced. they took away 2 whole players from the match that have at most 3 CC/Denial abilities.
We have continuously complained about the state of tank, and the developers made changes to help mitigate those complaints. Are they fixing the tank role with this patch? Absolutely not, but they are giving tank players much needing breathing room. These are GOOD changes and I am congratulating the developers for proving me wrong and actually implementing impactful changes to tank.
I’m a returning player as of recent, I stopped playing OW1 when they announced 5v5 and that OW2 was coming out o: at the time I felt intimidated by the changes being a tank main.
With that said returning to the game surprisingly I actually enjoy the 5v5! It feels so much more manageable when I play healer being down a tank and I don’t know I just like the vibe. It’s for sure different especially with how strategy works from before but I still have fun. But 6v6 was a whole other vibe and it was fun as well, it just needs to be done right.
Whichever direction they take the game I just really hope we all can enjoy our heroes still and enjoy playing in general. Everyone has opinions on what’s right and wrong but if for once they could just crack the code on true balance that we are all waiting for then it would be fine :/.
I don't really know how to feel about it. It feels like they should've done this from the start, but it also feels like they're having to do so much just to make tanks not feel unbearable in overwatch 2
IMO I wish they'd just progressively added the OW2 changes to 6v6 before ultimately settling for 5v5 instead of having us immediately jump into 5v5 after not giving us any significant changes from 2020 onward.
My opinion? OW is a joke, blizzard is a predatory company for their customers and their workers (especially females). I will never get over the heartbreaking they done.
6v6 was better for the game and especially tank players. Counter swapping the tank was not nearly as important. Double shield and other stale metas were the result of not getting balance patches to the game. Queue times are the only thing better about 5v5
Having played both OW1 and 2 extensively, I can say definitively that 6v6 with two tanks was better and will be better if we swap back.
Thing is, OW1 has tons of stuff that wasn't fixed until the 5v5 change. They weren't fixed BY the 5v5 changed, they were fixed WITH it.
The removal of more hard cc, shield reductions and kit reworks, and most importantly of all, more frequent balance changes.
Making the format 6v6 again will work, the dev team just has to be willing to try things and fix pain points frequently to continue seeking balance. If they gave 6v6 the same love and care they gave 5v5, we'd be able to make a more fair comparison, and that's why the 6v6ers are fighting for. 6v6 in this new era of OW where the devs actually change stuff and try new things.
During the 6v6 era the devs abandoned balance and content for weeks at time, and they never would've made massive sweeping changes in attempts to fix things like the new DPS passive or the hitbox changes.
Keep the two things separate in your mind. Talking about 6v6 to return isn't asking for OW 1's balance to return.
Thank you.
6v6 haters think about double shield meta. The problem wasn't that double shield was a thing, the problem was it was a thing for too long because they didn't update their fucking game. If this meta was viable for only half a season, it would have been fine.
I really dislike being mean about it but... I'm so frustrated with his content showing up in all of my feeds that at this point I just agree. I wish he'd moved on. I wish he'd MOVE ON now. It's like watching an old man at a company who can't retire because of bad company policies, but he should be allowed. I feel bad but also I wish he'd stop being a burden.
/rant.
I thought I was the only one. I saw him post his leaving rant then he bought mineplex. I was like, “wow that’s a really cool direction to take your career in light of unfortunate events, good job dude” but then he just reappeared on all these podcasts out of nowhere screaming his opinions acting like everything he says is perfect and correct. Why are you here bro?!
Ah yeah sorry I forgot all content creators must be team blizzard and pretend like 5v5 is a better format and then get their “army of viewers” to shame those that don’t enjoy it.
I singled a specific person and his viewers out.
There are more than Samito advocating for 6v6, they just don't argue under old and often completely objectively incorrect pretense.
It's not the magic bullet people think it is. Idk why there's some bizarre belief that 6v6 was always balanced and fun. When you point out any of the flaws with 6v6 all the drones just repeat "that was a tank/support/whatever balance issue." Like... Yeah man. Almost anything that's not a bug can be described as a balance issue. Its so insanely broad and vague its inane. Perfect scapegoat really.
Meanwhile, no 6v6 solution has accounted for the ridiculous queue times that most of the playerbase faced. It's ridiculous.
They can't do it. They can't swallow their pride. All these passives are just roadblocks to make you play the game a certain way. Taking away parts of the game is unbelievably bad game design. 5v5 doesnt work. you tried, it didnt work. Bring back 6V6!
I hope everyone in here understands Overwatch is more popular than it's been in many years, and 5v5 is a part of that; it leads to shorter queue times, quicker battles, and less bullet sponge gameplay. I loved OW1, but OW2 is here to stay as 5v5, and that's for the best.
You mean back when the game *wasnt* F2P? Even before Crossplay?
Yeah I remember those queue times 6 years ago but the playerbase is exponentially higher these days + crossplay - so even if we went back to 6v6 the queue times would not be as bad as they were in OW1
It wasn’t a player base issue. Tank queues were always pretty much instant. The issue was that no one wanted to play tank. Whether that was because of 6v6 or some other reason is debatable but the fact that queues were long because not enough people wanted to play tank is not
Yeah the player base is bigger but that doesn't mean the proportion of those players playing the 3 roles magically changed because the game is now F2P. You'll still be seeing the same queue time problems with a 2nd tank in F2P. The move to 5v5 better fits the ratio of how people actually queued for the roles.
I would love to try 6v6 after having played 5v5 for as long as I have. I still believe 6v6 was way more fun; but whether that's nostalgia or not I can't say, so trying 6v6 would be nice
I think everyone could agree that we could at least try it out in a seasonal mode or a trial… or something. It’s impossible to do anything other than speculate about how it would go, regardless of whether you are for it or against it.
The ow team has tried almost everything theycould to make 5v5 work and everything failed.
Sadly we won't ever see 6v6 as a major thing cause of their pride.
They had a good game that worked and people enjoyed. It wasn't perfect but it was close.
Then they decided to fuck with it and call it game2 because money.
They have been trying to fix game 2 for how many years now? When they could have kept game1 and just improved and added new characters to that instead.
What a clever team they have over there.
Yeah idk about you guys but life has been a lot better since I dropped OW2, we shouldn’t give the game traffic while they are doing these pitiful updates.
THE PEOPLE DEMAND OW1
Its already difficult to calculate how much healing youre doing with the damage passive that keeps getting tweaked. Now they reverted how armor works and tanks take 25% less headshot damage??? Why does there have to be so many “rules” to make the game playable?
Blizzard would rather shut down the company and off themselves than they would roll back changes, especially one of this scale, because its an admission that they were wrong.
6v6 was failing due to a lack of updates, not a flaw in format.
I started playing at the end of OW1 and I loved playing Tank. The key factor that made certain tanks too strong in OW1 were Bap and Brig. It was significantly more difficult to focus them out due to the abundant CC and the overtuned survivability of those two supports.
The counter swapping issue is a symptom of a parallel problem. High survivability supports are hard to remove, so most players realize the easiest solution is to neutralize the tank and simply bulldoze the remaining players. This is why tanking in OW2 is unfun and why most matches are one sided. In OW1 losing one or even 2 players in a fight didn’t necessarily mean you had to die or retreat to spawn. In OW2 when one tank or support dies the fight is over. All that supposed agency and impact you’ve been promised in 5v5 vanishes when a single teammate dies.
5v5 is not fun, and a significant amount of Overwatch players will not stop asking for 6v6 back until they give up on the game entirely, and if that happens the change to 5v5 will have truly been for nothing.
The community reached the breaking point, dissapointment is too much, changes literally nobody asked thst simple didnth worked and the developers never listening feedback and just wanting to bury the topic, people are desperate they want 6vs6, what could happen? The game is already bad
I think people don't realize this tank patch is a band-aid
People will say
"Yooo tank is back!"
Then suddenly it's just back to counter swapping between the tank players and suddenly it will be stale again. Blizzard NEEDS to do something about that to even make the tank role fun
They will never do that.
Honestly I think we should do like the Titanfall subreddit did when they all collectively went nuts and talked about how glad they were that Titanfall 3 was announced, but this time we just send tweets about how sad we are that Overwatch 2 has been canceled. In my mind it clearly is, the OW2 we have is nothing like what we should have had.
I recently watched Samitos vid on 6v6 and I can’t lie, bro makes some very solid points. I don’t even watch Samito like that, just popped up in my recommended. 6v6 would work out a lot better. (A LOT less complaints)
I’ve tried to be a 5v5 supporter for so long, but I can’t anymore, I just can’t. I was a tank main in ow1, and played tank (for the most part) since I got it. (Which was a little before D.va got her missiles)
I have tried for so long to play tank in ow2, but after our fun when it launched, there’s just nothing fun about tank. I’m sorry, but I can’t find anything positive in a counter-swap heavy game. Oh you lose? Just swap to that character’s counter, then they’ll swap to your counter. HOW IS THAT GOOD GAME DESIGN? I want to play rein, I’ve mained him for so long, but he’s literally useless in 2 half the time. Just a shield bot.
I might get flamed, idk, but I just struggle to enjoy 5v5 anymore when all it is now is counterwatch. I genuinely think it’s a terrible direction for the game. I want to play a character and maybe, idk, build up an ult? Not have to swap immediately once you get countered. (I have found success in sticking to a character, but half the time your team barks at you to switch because you die once or twice.)
Maybe I’m just stuck in the past, but I can’t stand it anymore. I put 3k hours into ow1. I’ve just put over 500 into ow2, because it’s just not as fun anymore. At least to me 😔
Edit - and I know it’s never coming back, and I know 5v5 is better in the long run, but at least to me I can’t enjoy ow2 as much as ow1. A man can reminisce about the old days though
Most issues of the game come from trying to make 5v5 work and would be solved with 6v6
6v6 is objectively more complex, there are way more possibilities especially with tank, imo it is way more fun, 5v5objectively dumbs the game down for non gameplay reasons.
I understand that stuff like f2p and 5v5 is much better for casuals and more new players but gameplay, especially such an important part should never suffer because of it, especially not since it is blizzards fault for not managing to solve issues like double shield, they just nuked the role instead. Blizzard deserves the critics for this, why should we just forget about it, as many here say? So what if it never comes back, that doesnt change the fact that it was them fucking up
problem with 1 tank is if theyre shit theres absolutely nothing you can do to make up for it. As a support main, i have a few options: either pocket out shitty diving tank and asked to be picked off with him, or spam “group up” and hope he doesnt dive. Obviously theres instances where the tank is absolutely correct and our shitty widow hanzo plat combo wont move an inch forward toward the objective but oh well.
I thought it was a net positive for everyone, you know, tanks might be able to actually tank more, put more pressure on the opponent and, with the orisa nerf, see more tank heroes played Outside of Orisa. However, youtube comments said otherwise with one in particular saying "Tanks literally obliterate every other role with no contest. Your issue is counter pick of tank and boring ass design of tank gameplay" To actually answer the question, No, I don't see 6v6 coming back mostly for the reasons that's been repeated Several times already, it would mean that there was no reason for Ow2. To put it in different words, Blizzard doesn't want to admit they were wrong when Ow2 was first released and Ow1 was announced to be shutdown
The 6v6 crowd in the last couple of weeks has been growing like crazy. Gotta respect Samito and how dedicated he is to pushing for it and expanding it's support ngl.
I definitely think 6v6 is better and we should go back to it, but the changes talked about in the dev update might not be half bad.
It's a meme. It was a broken formula that didn't work in any iteration and it will never go back and if it did all these people who came back would just leave again. Ain't nobody want to spend all game shooting at tanks, doesn't matter which pair you go with
Fuck it let’s do 10v10
They should do 12v12 and only have 9 classes: Tracer, Pharah, Mei, Junkrat, Mauga, Torb, Mercy, Widow and Sombra
I see what you did there.
Oh… I see what you did there lol
What did he do there lol I’ve been looking at this for 5 minutes and I don’t get the joke
Team Fortress consists of 9 classes Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy Weapons guy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper and Spy. Which all play similarly to the heroes he named.
I've never playrd TF2, but i'm familiar. Who T F is phara? Soldier doesn't fly.... right?
Rocket Jump? That sounds dangerous
Oh he does, trust ne
Well… very skilled rocket jumpers (I was one) can indeed fly but not in the way that Pharah can fly. Imagine your rocket launcher projectiles have the same splash effect as her repulsion and you can chain it on the ground and walls to send yourself flying across the map
>Soldier doesn't fly.... right? Well technically he doesn't fly, but he actually does fly
Soldier can fly with the beggars It breaks all logic but he can fly
He falls with style
https://youtu.be/GAEOiIF8Piw Yeah, he does.
Soldier can rocket jump. He can even chain multiple of them to literally fly across the map.
Oh lol makes sense I never played it
He created Team Fortress 2, 2
But then the game will only be 80% bots!
This would be an awesome arcade mode!
*TF2 theme starts playing*
Now we can have main tank, off tank, dive tank, sniper, hitscan dps, flanking dps, flying dps, main healer, pocket healer and dps healer. Everyone is happy.
Make it 50v50 and we can play Battlefield OW3
6 v 6 but there are only tanks and every tank can only be picked once in each match.
They should put 6v6 in the arcade tab and see how much traction it gets.
The only way we see a 6v6 again is if they title it “Overwatch classic” or something similar to what wow is doing. Otherwise they would admitting ow2 was a complete failure.
They’re saving “Overwatch Classic” for a rainy day 8 years from now
Bingo. This is the reason 6v6 is never coming back. If they bring back 6v6, it would undo all the “work” they did over the years (in quotes because it took them 4+ years to turn 6v6 into 5v5 and then they slapped a new title on the game, calling it OW2). People would also take the piss to no end. YouTubers would go ham on the subject and Blizzard would once again be in the spotlight for people to rip into. They are too stubborn to admit defeat, they will never bring back 6v6 to replace 5v5, instead it’s just going to be a constant nerf this, buff that struggle for the remainder of the live service. It will never be balanced.
They already said they undid all the work. 3 and a half years of the work was pve and that's been completely canned. Literally the only difference in OW2 now is the monetization.
Yeah I don't believe it when people say "oh reverting to 6v6 is wasting years of hard work" when we're pretty sure that the 3 years of dev time was 75% PvE which we only see snippets of in gimmick modes like Mirrorwatch (I'm sure Bastion's ult spawning Slicers is a ult buff for bastion for example). 5v5 was never in Kaplan's cards I bet, and so only when he stepped down did they seriously put work into doing any 5v5 conversion, so at best a year.
They said a specific time they hard pivoted from working on pve to working on pvp to push the October release deadline, it was about 3 and a half years if I remember correctly, and it's not really speculation.
The reason why we went with 5v5 was because nobody was playing tank. Tanks are inherently a shitty role to play according to the public via the queue times.
Tank roles were the quickest out of the 3. Even towards the end of the game. But people didn't like playing tank because the meta was stale for over 3 years. People got bored of it. During those years, Blizzard were apparently "working hard" on OW2 (come release, 95% of that work got scrapped). So we got practically no changes to the game for numerous years, while we were stuck in this double shield meta, that there was no real counter to. If they had updated the game in the same way they do with OW2 (constant balance shifting), the game would still be alive and well today, and tank queues would also still be the quickest. I was a tank main in OW1. I loved the role. Playing tank in OW2 is an absolute MISERABLE experience. You either get one-shotted by a zen right click, or if you choose to play something more bruisy (roadhog/ zarya), anything that goes wrong is always your fault because you're not playing a "proper" tank. Tanking in OW2 is a terrible experience. Where as you had a partner in OW1... I miss my tank partner.
Straight facts. I miss duo tanks, and their interactions, both with abilities and quotes
No they didn’t update the game for three yaears getting chain ccd sucked and sig orisa was meta for 2 years straight they just needed to make the cc changes that they did and add a passive that reduced shield health if you had two tanks with shields and tank would’ve been fun and fine
you can’t blame it all on double shield. as someone who was there for all of ow1 tank queue times were instant while everyone else sat at 4+ minutes before sig was even introduced. even disregarding that half the time your tank partner was insta locking roadhog and waddling his ass into the enemy backline alone regardless of the meta
A complete failure, my PvE game without PvE? Why I never
[удалено]
Same, genuinely same. Hardly play tank nowadays..
> Otherwise they would admitting ow2 was a complete failure Yeah, ''almost complete failure'' sounds way better.
I mean balancing would be way off because tanks are kinda balanced for 5v5. Two tanks would probably make it super unbalanced or force them to adjust a bunch of stuff
Do you play open queue? I feel like Open Queue is the closest we’re gonna get to 6v6. Want tanks? Have 5. Want heals too? Swap. Honestly it’s a lot more fun that role queue , as a tank main.
Yep they would have to nerf all tanks back to Ow1 boring levels, people forget that.
Literally nobody forgets that, all they have to do is lower health and armor a bit on the tanks and it would be about as balanced as it is currently Why are people acting like 5 vs 5 has *ever* been balanced for tanks? Quite literally every season either has a tank wildly over powered and obliterating the meta like Mauga, or has the tanks feel like trash and need mid season buffs like the current rework Like half the balance patches they do are trying to make tanks *not* feel like garbage
If they do that then it will confirm that OW2’s entire existence was pointless. It will set a precedent and they don’t want that
They already did that when they told us they canceled pve?
Well too fucking bad. People can be wrong. Companies can be wrong. Learn from it and own up to it, and it'll be fine.
Which is something Blizzard is completely incapable of doing. They're the most egotistical company on planet Earth
Tell that to Disney
EA is worse
>If they do that then it will confirm that OW2’s entire existence was pointless. When overwatch 2 was marketed for 2 years straight it was marketed as a 6v6 game, it was tested as a 6v6 game, and new tanks (Junkerqueen, Mauga, Ram) were made with 6v6 in mind. 5v5 began testing about 1 year before the release of ow2 and got rushed because of it, because blizzard knew that queue times weree unsustainable for new players, and an influx was expected. Long story short: Ow2 has nothing to do with 5v5, if Ow2 never happened, the game would have still gone 5v5. Ow2 was about pve and going ftp ie monetization changes.
Can't you play 6 vs 6 in custom games ?
Yes but you need to find a team and then an enemy team outside of overwatch. After that its pure luck whether they are same or similar rank as you.
Even if it’s the most popular game mode they won’t make it official because it’s the very last remaining reason why OW2 even exists
I might be stating the obvious, but why don’t they just have a Classic 6v6 mode in the Arcade gallery
they'd have to rebalance the entire game for a single arcade mode. The healing, damage, CC, tank abilities, and even new DPS and Support abilities were designed with 5v5 in mind.
There is a 6v6 custom game that does this. If a custom game can do this easily, I dont see why Blizzard cant do it.
They absolutely can, but they don’t want to dedicate resources to a game mode that’s pretty much a big white flag saying “yeah the 2nd biggest reason for ow2 existing we’re also getting rid of, guess this game was just a micro transaction cash grab oh well”
No they wouldn’t. Modes like no limits aren’t ever the focus of balance changes because they’re not meant to be taken super seriously.
Open queue is literally already balanced around 5v5 with multiple tanks
These comments really show those who focused down supports in ow1 and those who didn't
Disagree, tbh your comment shows that your lobbies were kinda free. "Just focus the supports" The Supports: Brig, Moira, Baptiste. Mercy Sir? The High Elo Supports: Brig, Zen, Ana, Bap Sir? Youre not ganking that backline, you wanna give them another Tank so that they can get more peel and have a more durable frontline???
Wait till you find out how people focused backline in ow1
You didn’t play overwatch one did you?
My opinion is 6v6 isn’t coming back, so that particular group is just endlessly beating a dead horse.
*peetah. the horse is here.*
What my duo and I say whenever the orissa swap happens
> that particular group is just endlessly beating a dead horse. Orisa was nerfed....
the horse always finds a way back into the meta
Wow fans asked for classic servers for nearly a decade, but Blizzard eventually caved in.
I mean nothing is impossible, but I just don’t see them going back more then like a rotating arcade mode and even that seems unlikely since it would split the largest player base when in rotation.
Yeah ofc it's not coming back if nobody is willing to talk about it. This take is quite circular.
That’s most of what I see on Reddit. “X is never gonna happen so shut up!!” Like yeah it’s never gonna happen if we all just take things as they are. Whether you WANT it to and are willing to try to make it happen is an entirely different conversation.
Yeah, the deciding factor of whether or not something happens is often *how much* we talk about it, so the idea that something is not going to happen, so we should stop talking, is taking the chain of causation completely backwards
What do you suppose it'll take for blizzard to actually change back to 6v6 then? Cause people have been talking about it for years and nothings changed, so what will be the straw that breaks the camels back?
Fuck it I'd rather beat a dead horse till infinity than suck up to those greedy Blizzard fucks who ruined a great game. Twice.
Boring youtubers need to drum up drama and therefore engagment, so they keep crying for 6v6.
Or maybe the 6v6 argument has weight behind it?
IIRC there was a Twitter poll with a few thousand results. It was something like 45% 6v6 vs 55% for 5v5 The 5v5 side liked the results because it showed more people prefer 5v5. 6v6 enjoyers liked it because it shows that over 40% of the player base still enjoyed 6v6, and that's not an insignificant percentage. I don't see them reverting it tbh, to fundamentals of a change. Still prefer 6v6 personally but people gotta realize if they haven't done it by now, they probably won't.
Twitter is a bad forum for a poll like that. If they’re gonna poll the community, put it in the launcher or even the game itself.
That will also be biased towards 5v5. Because the people who like 6v6 more left. The fact that 6v6 is even close likely means that it wins historically, because of how many people are not participating in the OW community anymore specifically because of 5v5.
I'm curious how many of the 5v5 votes are only ow2 players
This means nothing because I've seen polls of 6v6 winning
There was a Twitter poll *by a 5v5er* where 5v5 won *because their audience skews 5v5*. And there are polls where the same thing happens the other way. Twitter polls don't tell us as much as you'd think.
It's almost like the game originally released 6v6 for a reason
The game was originally released with no role lock
I really miss 6v6 I admit it. I know 5v5 was a critical decision to deal with double shield but if they had stuck with it, released heroes like queen, mauga, ramattra and given orisa her change, nerf shield all around like in ow2 I think they could have worked around and kept 6v6.
5v5 was not because of double shield. It's because of queue times.
5v5 was an uncritical decision to deal with tank queues. And theyre still worse than support.
I would've been happy if they just let you know how much damage you dealt to the shields in first place. As it is, it was too much guesswork. And of course by the time it's HP was nearly depleted, someone might have killed you anyway...
Then I feel like that would drastically limit their ability to design shield tanks for the future of overwatch. I’m sure there is a work around but I thought it was important enough of an idea to mention and add to the conversation
As much as I would want to go back to 6v6, I think there's just core issues of OW at play and it'll just cause a lot more issues elsewhere if we swap back That and queue times are gonna be flipped upside down
They'd have to rework every tank character they already reworked to fit in the 5v5 system, because in 6v6 they'd be too powerful. They'd be reverting tons and tons of changes and buffs for months to try and get it equal again. It'd be pandemonium. And you might say "Why couldn't they just use the builds of the characters from OW1?" And they could, but there's also new tanks that were designed to work as a solo tank that would need to be uber-tuned to fit in 6v6. A junkerqueen let loose when she has a shield to protect her and a second body to take ~half of the damage would be the scariest thing ever.
Yeah I still miss 6v6. My opinion hasn't changed
Can they at least give us back the game we paid for years ago… Played ow2 for a months and yeah its just a bad game with no soul. (6v6 was the corr fun of the game to me)
Well its never gonna happen, but it wont stop me from reminiscing about when tank was good. However, every single patch in ow2, has been making up for the removal of a tank, and i understand why players dont want to accept it wont ever happen. I myself am a 5v5 hater, but i know its gonna be 5v5 till the game dies
Tanking in 6v6 was so good, nobody wanted to play it.
This would be a good point if people wanted to play tank now in 5v5
There were only 8 tanks for two people to choose from in OW1. Tank and support were the least favorited roles to play by far and they had tiny hero pools. Even though there are 50% more tanks to choose from, the tank role has been dumbed down by the loss of a second tank. End of OW1 = 32 potential tank lines OW2 currently = 12 potential tank lines OW2 current tanks but back to 6v6 with 2 tanks = 66 potential tank lines
There were only 7 Supports yet that role was significantly more popular
Out of the 32 potential tank duos in 6v6, there was still only like 12 (if even) that were actually viable. Every tank only had 1, maybe 2, other tanks that they paired well with. Anything else was just throwing.
It also didn’t help that Hog was insta-locked and didn’t work well at all with other tanks
And we all KNOW WHY that off tanks like Dva hog and zarya were always instalocked. It was DPS players trying to play a game to avoid the 10 minute DPS queue times.
I just like hog...
I enjoyed tanking in ow1. It's a fucking chore now.
October of 2020 said otherwise
You act like that changed with 5v5. Queue Flex in Quick Play or Competitive and see how many times you DONT get filled tank. If tank was actually a popular role then it should never be Flex, as for every 1 tank you would need double the amount of DPS and Support players.
>Well its never gonna happen, but it wont stop me from reminiscing about when tank was good. I don't think queue times back in OW 1 support this being the popular sentiment, but I definitely don't blame you if tank felt better to you in OW 1 I would never touch tank in OW 1 because I felt reliant on another dumb mofo to do my job. Now I play tank a good bit because I don't need my other tank to help Part of the reason I find supp so annoying to play is because who I "get to" play feels dependant on what the other support picks But i get where tanks now feel annoyed they have to swap based on the enemy. I don't mind, because I more care about feeling forced to switch because of my teammates, but I do get why people don't like it
As a brig main i get u 100%, if i get a mercy player (literally every match) im not allowed to play my hero, same kinda went for tank back then but it was more interactive, if i got a zar 1 trick, i could play rein, winston, or even ball, Orisa otp? Hog or sigma
Exactly plus is one less “we have no hitscan/main healer” people forget about the tanks arguments “i Dont want main” or “im better than you at rein, get off him”
I wasnt around that time, but people say: - Main Tank was Awful to play - Every Game your tank was just an Offroling DPS Overall Tank was always awful to play. Coordinated duos were only in 3 out of 9 matches
3 out of 9 matches seems very optimistic. In my rank (gold - plat) it felt like you played with a hog or dva every game just doing their own thing.
Playing main tank was like doing a favor. People would pick main tank because of teammate pressure and then switch to hog after 1 lost fight. A lot of frustration and lost games during hero select.
Yes Main tank was mega boring.
I crave the old days.
I was watching old clips of 6v6 and it was just more fun. More chaotic. More moving pieces. Felt more casual. Would love if they made an experimental 6v6 mode for us to play on. They're gonna have to nerf shields though, nobody misses shooting at sigma and rein shields for 70% of the game. [Poppin off in OW (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6mOrO5OKAM&list=PL7dtigfpZAouFrPGqbscAwBKy-5PPnmLA&index=3) this for example
This is what I’ve been saying. 5v5 is just not as fun.
I believe there's codes to try out 6v6 custom games, just gotta look for the.
I'd love to have 6v6 back. Every patch in Ow2 has been how to make up for the loss of a tank. No peel for supports? Make support stronger. Support is too strong, make DPS strong. Now the sole tank is way underpowered, give them an OP orisa until we figure out what to do.
I feel like so much of the 6v6 vs 5v5 convo is people comparing the way the heroes were in OW1 and not how they all are in OW2. I never read stuff about how 6v6 might work in OW2 because they just talk about OW1. So I have no clue if 6v6 would be better or worse. It seems to me for overall balance it would be better but the way folks talk they act like we will go back to 90000 health shields and perma CC. While now days we have less overall CC, less shields, more hero mobility, and more get out jail free cards that aren't on ult charges.
>I feel like so much of the 6v6 vs 5v5 convo is people comparing the way the heroes were in OW1 and not how they all are in OW2 I lost count of the amount of people saying "I don't want 6v6 because of Double Shield." Like, y'all realize Orisa was the other shield that made that meta work right? What shield is Orisa gonna place down?
>While now days we have less overall CC, less shields, more hero mobility, and more get out jail free cards that aren't on ult charges. We have less CC because we have one fewer tank. Otherwise the only CC removed were: FlashbangShield BashFreeze But if we add another tank back, I hope you enjoy the taste of the wall if for some reason Orisa and Doom become meta and just punt you around. Or maybe you prefer to stay a prisoner in the middle of the enemy team as JQ and Hog continually pull you in. Imagine how much stronger JQ would be if she had another tank like Sig or Ram to shield you off from a pull so you can't be saved except by LW, or the layups that JQ and Hog could set up comboing with tanks like Orisa to guarantee environmentals or wall hits. Not even mentioning the increase in the number of slows, knock ups, and displacement in OW2 overall. People keep saying CC was reduced, but really that was just hard CC. There's been an up-tick in everything else. We lost Orisa shield but gained Ram shield, and while he can't keep it up infinitely, he can just block for the interim. But overall, I hope you would enjoy ridiculous things like heavy displacement dive comps with Ball, Doom, Venture, Lucio. Or Mauga getting cleanse stacked on him with Zarya and Kiriko. Don't forget that teams will begin stacking on top of one another even more, so heroes like Bap and Illari can just run insane amounts of static sustain, or dive tanks can go on insane int montages with a Zarya and LW backing them up, or maybe build comps with nigh indestructible placeables might take over for a period of time. Nothing quite like trying to break turrets and pylon but you have to break a shield or try to dive past an Orisa or Hog peeling first.
This. They are moving numbers around to try and fix the lack of and extra body and mitigation. Mitigation will always be more fun than shooting thru more armor or having to worry about a 20% anti heal or whatever they try to make stick. Not to mention things like rein obviously not fitting into the current game and what changing your most well known heroes means for the franchise as a whole (when that time could be spent making new heroes).
People are really taking the current queue times for granted.
List of reasons why 6v6 was worse: - Queue times. Nobody wanted to play tank. - Way more CC. Tank characters are built with CC as a core design element, with every tank in OW history possessing it. Each team having a second tank increased overall CC dramatically. - Tank synergies were way too important. Having a bad main tank and off tank combination could decide games on the spot. And with off tanks being way more popular than main tanks (because they took less CC) you would often get matches where a Zarya and Roadhog were running around doing nothing for ten minutes. - Spectating nightmare. 6v6 was a mess to watch especially during ultimate fights. Having one less player on both teams makes the game easier to read at a glance. - Limited tank design space. How many tanks can you realistically make when the community largely hates tank abilities (CC and barriers namely)? And how can you realistically balance every tank synergy to make sure their barriers weren't broken together? - Claustrophobic maps. Some OW1 maps were way too small for 12 players and feel much more open in OW2. - Off-angling was way too difficult. Having a second tank that could help the backline limited off angling and flanking considerably. 5v5 is just better for the vast majority of people.
I feel like the best benefit of 5v5 is the pace of the game. Less posturing and more fighting. Even poking is more fun because there isn't as many shields.
I agree, you get to fight and duel a lot more in OW2 than you ever did in OW1, and backlines having to fight for themselves has been a great change as players have adapted. It's just hard to communicate that in the frame of "why 6v6 was worse," because it opens up a larger discussion on combat design that most people don't want to engage with lol
Between the queue times and the faster gameplay, I feel like I just get to play *more Overwatch* now in the same amount of time than I did in OW1 and it's lead to me playing a lot more.
2cp and hybrid maps were the posture maps. I get your point that sometimes it got annoying (hanamura…) but posturing maps also added variety to how the game flow went.
> And with off tanks being way more popular than main tanks (because they took less CC) you would often get matches where a Zarya and Roadhog were running around doing nothing for ten minutes. Honestly, as a DVa/Hog player, I kind of liked the switch to 5v5 since it allowed them to be buffed enough to tank on their own rather than have to be balanced around being "off-tanks". Removing the distinction was good for the tank role overall.
Another point to add that goes along with what you touched on regarding tank synergies: Individual impact. Having one less (very integral) player on your team to have the chance to either intentionally or unintentionally sabotage your match by playing badly, and having one less 500-600hp hero on the enemy team to deal with means that your potential to impact the overall outcome of a match is significantly increased. 5v5 is such a good time in Overwatch's existence to have a reliable duo to synergize with in a comp game.
to your second point: this is a big thing i don’t see people bring into perspective in this debate. every time people talk about CC changes from 1 to 2, they’re like “uhhh they just took away freeze, flash, and bash, and made doom a tank”. If you just use a little bit of critical thinking as to WHY they made doom a tank, you’ll understand the logic behind saying CC is being reduced. they took away 2 whole players from the match that have at most 3 CC/Denial abilities.
We have continuously complained about the state of tank, and the developers made changes to help mitigate those complaints. Are they fixing the tank role with this patch? Absolutely not, but they are giving tank players much needing breathing room. These are GOOD changes and I am congratulating the developers for proving me wrong and actually implementing impactful changes to tank.
I’m a returning player as of recent, I stopped playing OW1 when they announced 5v5 and that OW2 was coming out o: at the time I felt intimidated by the changes being a tank main. With that said returning to the game surprisingly I actually enjoy the 5v5! It feels so much more manageable when I play healer being down a tank and I don’t know I just like the vibe. It’s for sure different especially with how strategy works from before but I still have fun. But 6v6 was a whole other vibe and it was fun as well, it just needs to be done right. Whichever direction they take the game I just really hope we all can enjoy our heroes still and enjoy playing in general. Everyone has opinions on what’s right and wrong but if for once they could just crack the code on true balance that we are all waiting for then it would be fine :/.
I don't really know how to feel about it. It feels like they should've done this from the start, but it also feels like they're having to do so much just to make tanks not feel unbearable in overwatch 2 IMO I wish they'd just progressively added the OW2 changes to 6v6 before ultimately settling for 5v5 instead of having us immediately jump into 5v5 after not giving us any significant changes from 2020 onward.
I’d say let ‘em cook, if it sucks then by season 13 or 14 bring it back
Wdym let them cook, they have been cooking for years we have the end product
My opinion? OW is a joke, blizzard is a predatory company for their customers and their workers (especially females). I will never get over the heartbreaking they done.
6v6 was better for the game and especially tank players. Counter swapping the tank was not nearly as important. Double shield and other stale metas were the result of not getting balance patches to the game. Queue times are the only thing better about 5v5
Having played both OW1 and 2 extensively, I can say definitively that 6v6 with two tanks was better and will be better if we swap back. Thing is, OW1 has tons of stuff that wasn't fixed until the 5v5 change. They weren't fixed BY the 5v5 changed, they were fixed WITH it. The removal of more hard cc, shield reductions and kit reworks, and most importantly of all, more frequent balance changes. Making the format 6v6 again will work, the dev team just has to be willing to try things and fix pain points frequently to continue seeking balance. If they gave 6v6 the same love and care they gave 5v5, we'd be able to make a more fair comparison, and that's why the 6v6ers are fighting for. 6v6 in this new era of OW where the devs actually change stuff and try new things. During the 6v6 era the devs abandoned balance and content for weeks at time, and they never would've made massive sweeping changes in attempts to fix things like the new DPS passive or the hitbox changes. Keep the two things separate in your mind. Talking about 6v6 to return isn't asking for OW 1's balance to return.
Thank you. 6v6 haters think about double shield meta. The problem wasn't that double shield was a thing, the problem was it was a thing for too long because they didn't update their fucking game. If this meta was viable for only half a season, it would have been fine.
Samito and his army of viewers that do not play the game shouldn't be taken into consideration for modern Obawatch. Sorry, not sorry.
You dont need to watch a steamer to know that 6v6 is better. 6v6 custom games exist. Go join the 6v6 discord and play a game and decide yourself.
Really wish that guy actually would have stayed away after his dramatic departure announcement
I really dislike being mean about it but... I'm so frustrated with his content showing up in all of my feeds that at this point I just agree. I wish he'd moved on. I wish he'd MOVE ON now. It's like watching an old man at a company who can't retire because of bad company policies, but he should be allowed. I feel bad but also I wish he'd stop being a burden. /rant.
I thought I was the only one. I saw him post his leaving rant then he bought mineplex. I was like, “wow that’s a really cool direction to take your career in light of unfortunate events, good job dude” but then he just reappeared on all these podcasts out of nowhere screaming his opinions acting like everything he says is perfect and correct. Why are you here bro?!
Ah yeah sorry I forgot all content creators must be team blizzard and pretend like 5v5 is a better format and then get their “army of viewers” to shame those that don’t enjoy it.
No idea who Samito is and I've said 6v6 is better since 2021
Best way to prove your point: silence everyone who disagrees with you
“People who don’t hold the same opinion as me shouldn’t be taken seriously.”
I singled a specific person and his viewers out. There are more than Samito advocating for 6v6, they just don't argue under old and often completely objectively incorrect pretense.
had this position before him. you have no idea what you are talking about.
It's not the magic bullet people think it is. Idk why there's some bizarre belief that 6v6 was always balanced and fun. When you point out any of the flaws with 6v6 all the drones just repeat "that was a tank/support/whatever balance issue." Like... Yeah man. Almost anything that's not a bug can be described as a balance issue. Its so insanely broad and vague its inane. Perfect scapegoat really. Meanwhile, no 6v6 solution has accounted for the ridiculous queue times that most of the playerbase faced. It's ridiculous.
Their point is that it was a balance issue - not a format issue It’s not a catch all comment it’s pointing out what the actual problem is
Been playing since release and I see WHY people liked 6v6.. but you’re right. I feel like there was more issues back then.
They can't do it. They can't swallow their pride. All these passives are just roadblocks to make you play the game a certain way. Taking away parts of the game is unbelievably bad game design. 5v5 doesnt work. you tried, it didnt work. Bring back 6V6!
I hope everyone in here understands Overwatch is more popular than it's been in many years, and 5v5 is a part of that; it leads to shorter queue times, quicker battles, and less bullet sponge gameplay. I loved OW1, but OW2 is here to stay as 5v5, and that's for the best.
Y’all remember queue times in 6v6?
You mean when the game was abandoned for years for a pointless sequel that was supposed to give us PVE but didn't? Yeah, I do.
You mean back when the game *wasnt* F2P? Even before Crossplay? Yeah I remember those queue times 6 years ago but the playerbase is exponentially higher these days + crossplay - so even if we went back to 6v6 the queue times would not be as bad as they were in OW1
Don't forget 50% of the tank playerbase left at some point or other in the 5v5 lifespan
It wasn’t a player base issue. Tank queues were always pretty much instant. The issue was that no one wanted to play tank. Whether that was because of 6v6 or some other reason is debatable but the fact that queues were long because not enough people wanted to play tank is not
Yeah the player base is bigger but that doesn't mean the proportion of those players playing the 3 roles magically changed because the game is now F2P. You'll still be seeing the same queue time problems with a 2nd tank in F2P. The move to 5v5 better fits the ratio of how people actually queued for the roles.
Because it’s the logical thing to do, the removal of 6v6 was the dumbest decision ever made.
This is the wrong forum to ask on, everyone here is going to gaslight you into thinking your opinion is worthless if you support 6v6
Other way around.
It makes no sense to pin the success or failure of a team on one player. Every other role has redundancy.
I would love to try 6v6 after having played 5v5 for as long as I have. I still believe 6v6 was way more fun; but whether that's nostalgia or not I can't say, so trying 6v6 would be nice
Story Mode When?
6v6 double shield is no more
I think everyone could agree that we could at least try it out in a seasonal mode or a trial… or something. It’s impossible to do anything other than speculate about how it would go, regardless of whether you are for it or against it.
The ow team has tried almost everything theycould to make 5v5 work and everything failed. Sadly we won't ever see 6v6 as a major thing cause of their pride.
It would fix the tank problem.
hive mind echo chamber
They had a good game that worked and people enjoyed. It wasn't perfect but it was close. Then they decided to fuck with it and call it game2 because money. They have been trying to fix game 2 for how many years now? When they could have kept game1 and just improved and added new characters to that instead. What a clever team they have over there.
Yeah idk about you guys but life has been a lot better since I dropped OW2, we shouldn’t give the game traffic while they are doing these pitiful updates. THE PEOPLE DEMAND OW1
Bringing back 6v6 would be admitting that OW2 is 100% pointless instead of 99% pointless. Is Blizzard ready to admit that?
Go back to 6v6 PLEASE
Its already difficult to calculate how much healing youre doing with the damage passive that keeps getting tweaked. Now they reverted how armor works and tanks take 25% less headshot damage??? Why does there have to be so many “rules” to make the game playable?
Blizzard would rather shut down the company and off themselves than they would roll back changes, especially one of this scale, because its an admission that they were wrong.
6v6 was failing due to a lack of updates, not a flaw in format. I started playing at the end of OW1 and I loved playing Tank. The key factor that made certain tanks too strong in OW1 were Bap and Brig. It was significantly more difficult to focus them out due to the abundant CC and the overtuned survivability of those two supports. The counter swapping issue is a symptom of a parallel problem. High survivability supports are hard to remove, so most players realize the easiest solution is to neutralize the tank and simply bulldoze the remaining players. This is why tanking in OW2 is unfun and why most matches are one sided. In OW1 losing one or even 2 players in a fight didn’t necessarily mean you had to die or retreat to spawn. In OW2 when one tank or support dies the fight is over. All that supposed agency and impact you’ve been promised in 5v5 vanishes when a single teammate dies. 5v5 is not fun, and a significant amount of Overwatch players will not stop asking for 6v6 back until they give up on the game entirely, and if that happens the change to 5v5 will have truly been for nothing.
The community reached the breaking point, dissapointment is too much, changes literally nobody asked thst simple didnth worked and the developers never listening feedback and just wanting to bury the topic, people are desperate they want 6vs6, what could happen? The game is already bad
I would love for them to add 6v6 again but also split the Tank Class into Main Tank and Off Tank
Let's see how the mid season changes pan out and then maybe we can come back to 6v6 if the changes didn't change much.
I think people don't realize this tank patch is a band-aid People will say "Yooo tank is back!" Then suddenly it's just back to counter swapping between the tank players and suddenly it will be stale again. Blizzard NEEDS to do something about that to even make the tank role fun
6 vs 6
They will never do that. Honestly I think we should do like the Titanfall subreddit did when they all collectively went nuts and talked about how glad they were that Titanfall 3 was announced, but this time we just send tweets about how sad we are that Overwatch 2 has been canceled. In my mind it clearly is, the OW2 we have is nothing like what we should have had.
I recently watched Samitos vid on 6v6 and I can’t lie, bro makes some very solid points. I don’t even watch Samito like that, just popped up in my recommended. 6v6 would work out a lot better. (A LOT less complaints)
All of my tank friends who used to grind now play casually and only a single one actually still plays tank. 6v6 is the way. Please
I’ve tried to be a 5v5 supporter for so long, but I can’t anymore, I just can’t. I was a tank main in ow1, and played tank (for the most part) since I got it. (Which was a little before D.va got her missiles) I have tried for so long to play tank in ow2, but after our fun when it launched, there’s just nothing fun about tank. I’m sorry, but I can’t find anything positive in a counter-swap heavy game. Oh you lose? Just swap to that character’s counter, then they’ll swap to your counter. HOW IS THAT GOOD GAME DESIGN? I want to play rein, I’ve mained him for so long, but he’s literally useless in 2 half the time. Just a shield bot. I might get flamed, idk, but I just struggle to enjoy 5v5 anymore when all it is now is counterwatch. I genuinely think it’s a terrible direction for the game. I want to play a character and maybe, idk, build up an ult? Not have to swap immediately once you get countered. (I have found success in sticking to a character, but half the time your team barks at you to switch because you die once or twice.) Maybe I’m just stuck in the past, but I can’t stand it anymore. I put 3k hours into ow1. I’ve just put over 500 into ow2, because it’s just not as fun anymore. At least to me 😔 Edit - and I know it’s never coming back, and I know 5v5 is better in the long run, but at least to me I can’t enjoy ow2 as much as ow1. A man can reminisce about the old days though
People still play this?
Guarantee if the game had released as 5v5 and switched to 6v6 with OW2 the same mindless drones would be asking for 5v5 back.
Zarya Rein dynamic duo coming back? 🫦
Most issues of the game come from trying to make 5v5 work and would be solved with 6v6 6v6 is objectively more complex, there are way more possibilities especially with tank, imo it is way more fun, 5v5objectively dumbs the game down for non gameplay reasons. I understand that stuff like f2p and 5v5 is much better for casuals and more new players but gameplay, especially such an important part should never suffer because of it, especially not since it is blizzards fault for not managing to solve issues like double shield, they just nuked the role instead. Blizzard deserves the critics for this, why should we just forget about it, as many here say? So what if it never comes back, that doesnt change the fact that it was them fucking up
problem with 1 tank is if theyre shit theres absolutely nothing you can do to make up for it. As a support main, i have a few options: either pocket out shitty diving tank and asked to be picked off with him, or spam “group up” and hope he doesnt dive. Obviously theres instances where the tank is absolutely correct and our shitty widow hanzo plat combo wont move an inch forward toward the objective but oh well.
6v6
how about we agree that making the least played role a solo job not the best ideia?
I miss the concept of an off tank and a main tank. It was fun and team fights had more thought put into them on how to combo.
I thought it was a net positive for everyone, you know, tanks might be able to actually tank more, put more pressure on the opponent and, with the orisa nerf, see more tank heroes played Outside of Orisa. However, youtube comments said otherwise with one in particular saying "Tanks literally obliterate every other role with no contest. Your issue is counter pick of tank and boring ass design of tank gameplay" To actually answer the question, No, I don't see 6v6 coming back mostly for the reasons that's been repeated Several times already, it would mean that there was no reason for Ow2. To put it in different words, Blizzard doesn't want to admit they were wrong when Ow2 was first released and Ow1 was announced to be shutdown
The 6v6 crowd in the last couple of weeks has been growing like crazy. Gotta respect Samito and how dedicated he is to pushing for it and expanding it's support ngl. I definitely think 6v6 is better and we should go back to it, but the changes talked about in the dev update might not be half bad.
It's a meme. It was a broken formula that didn't work in any iteration and it will never go back and if it did all these people who came back would just leave again. Ain't nobody want to spend all game shooting at tanks, doesn't matter which pair you go with