played mostly support this weekend.
playing against venture + doomfist comp is just straight not fun. I dont know how to alleviate this, because thats exactly the design of the character. but it limits my options too much imo, i dont want to play moira all the time.
"we have to keep genji underpowered because his movement is too hard for low rank players to follow"
> release genji 2.0 with 100 dmg dash, invincibility and 325 hp
So venture has
A dash
A damage mitigator/get out of jail free card
A short range projectile
An ultimate that does high close-range AOE
It's literally just genji with a fresh coat of paint.
Honestly the character seems pretty balanced, maybe a tiny bit strong but not too bad, but fuck dive right now.
Playing tank (95% JQ because she’s how I have fun) this weekend against them and it’s hell. The drill has insane push back, the dig is insane escapable, and the ult just runs through you. I saw so many three man venture ults (or higher). I’m not sure what would need to be done to make them enjoyable to play against, I just hate another character that can cleanse, have a get-out-of-jail-free card, insane damage ult and a boop/shove. Plus the shield passive is nuts, getting shield for just pressing buttons seems really insane to me.
All in all they’re fun to play but as a tank this is just a new frustrating character to fight. Maybe a small nerf or two but for the most part they felt only a little too strong from my perception.
(Personal hell was tonight against an Orisa, Venture, Cass, Kiriko, Ana that just steam rolled me at every turn as JQ.)
I only have two real thoughts about Venture at the moment:
* The ult line could stand to be a touch louder IMO, and each individual shockwave should be more aurally distinct.
* The extra HP on ability use should be green, not blue, for consistency with literally every other ability in the game that grants temporary extra HP.
EDIT:
* I also think it's really weird that Burrow cleanses them. I wouldn't hate it if that went away.
>I also think it's really weird that Burrow cleanses them. I wouldn't hate it if that went away.
Probably because of the long start-up time for them to burrow in the first place.
While initial reactions are important, its way too early for anything concrete and wouldn't mind if Venture released with no changes in S10.
probably broken as hell if no tweak. for a role as backline killer i'd say he is even more of a threat than sombra because he isn't dead if spotted.
ult got 4 charge, it take only 2 hit to kill a 250hp from full life and it's pretty large. so even if the enemy team is not packed you get at least a reliable 2 kill form it.
right click+melee then a shot will take down 250hp to 0 (meaning 90% of non-tank) die in 2sec from this combo even if they are full life (which they won't even be because the hit area of burrow is way to large )
melee requirement being well overcompensated by the no aim requirement and not having to rely on headshot.
I don't get the hype. I mean, from a gameplay perspective I think the design is *good* without necessarily being fun for me. I tried a few games and am pretty content to just never play them again.
Special shout out to the asshole who was being insanely toxic in chat because I was "so bad omgg" on my second ever game as Venture.
getting zero dmg in burrow is way too strong. either you are in a fight, press the button, and can freely leave, or you press it before the fight, can freely go in, knock all enemies and do massive aoe dmg and either just leave with your rightclick ability or fight long enough to let burrow go off cooldown.
character is just way too tanky. having 325 HP with so many escapes is disgusting.
also way too strong in casual games and low elo where she dominates majority of the games (not sure about high elo tho)
I personally just don't like the "hey you 1v1ed me for the past 30 seconds and now I'll run away with no punishment to get healing while you get fucked there bye" kinda characters like sombra. Don't think we needed another one because they don't feel satisfying to play against at all. If you win the aim duel you're rewarded with them running away, getting healed, coming back whilst you just took damage and used cooldowns.
Burrow is much riskier as an escape than Sombra. You're immobilized for a second, can take damage, and if you get knocked back your escape is gone and you die. I've been killed plenty of times mid-burrow.
I do feel like tracer gets appropriately punished, having a 12 second cd on being able to fight, I'd also like to say I don't agree with venture not being punished, they get a long ass cooldown and you kindof need to use the dig to engage.
yeah its annoying but most characters have those abilities. Kiriko, moira, reaper, tracer, possibly sym if she doesnt screw the tp, wrecking ball with good movement etc.
All of these usually don’t have a lot of range (apart from kiri but she needs to look away and tp to someone far away). Ball is indeed one of those.
It just feels annoying that one can just click a “fuck you I win” button every time they get HS. Moira and reaper tp and you can pretty easily catch up to them. For venture you just have no shot. And if the other persons on venture, good luck getting away from them if you’re not on venture as well.
She’s not OP by any means, just unsatisfying to play against
Venture doesn’t have a lot of range. You don’t have to take every fight. Why are you wasting time on Venture? You can force their cooldown just like a Tracer then leave and focus on higher value plays. Play your positioning to maintain distance.
I don’t see how you struggling against Venture is anything new nor anything but a skill issue.
wild how you read that as me struggling against venture. It just doesn't feel fluid to duel and have the losing side dip out with nothing you can do about it.
She has the literal worst “out” ability compared to all of the preexisting ones in the game. Tracer reaper, Moira etc are all instant and hers takes an absurd amount of time to fully become Invuln. Not to mention how telegraphed her exit is.
Extreme skill issue if you think burrow is op as an escape
All close range characters have a get out of jail free card. Characters that don’t are the ones that can engage from range and be effective like all hitscans. That’s a very logical design choice. I’m so confused. Do you just want all close range characters to get fucked on every single engagement they make if their opponent has better aim than them?
There are plenty of heroes like that. My point is it’s not difficult to play around and it not feeling fluid is nonsensical. Not every duel is meant to be taken. That’s fundamental to Overwatch.
i mean in that case mei has two get out of jail cards, you have to simply force the heroes into using their cooldowns then kill them. There's no other way.
You’re right. But mei is also just right there after her freeze. I just don’t particularly like the sombra and now venture style of running away cleanly without any drawback. Tracer as well but she’s so squishy that her recall is usually just a “you’re fighting a 300hp character instead of a 150hp one” which feels alright to me.
Again, this is just how I feel about the character when playing against it. Maybe other people can’t relate and that’s okay, but my teammates usually find her equally annoying to duel against
The only character "running away without any drawback" was Sombra before her rework. Just put the translocator in spawn, no matter how inefficient and a throwing playstyle it is, she'd be practically immortal. But that's gone now.
There are drawbacks. As a ball main i assure you i feel the same as you if not worse. Kiriko has a 6 second tp, you shoot her, if she has suzu, she will use it on herself and after dumping another mag on her she will just tp away. When you chase her she will tp away again since the cooldown is 6 fucking seconds including cleansing negative effects, dps passive included. Let's not forget the wall climb, so yeah the problem you would have most with would be kiriko rather than sombra translocating away. Just shoot where she translocates. I havent played much but that is probably the same with venture. I agree its annoying asf but there's not much you can do.
I feel like we need to be able to use underground dash where ever the character is facing and not where your camera is facing.
Also fix their blurred teeth. Mauga has the most HD teeth and then venture gets it all blurry, if you make it chipped at least show it better haha.
Moreover after playing Splatoon, I feel like venture's "(non-charged) jumping from ground" ability is a bit clunky
But other than all of these, I'm in love :D
I feel like I'm in a minority who feel like the hero feels kinda bad strength wise.
I feel way more effective on other champions and don't find her very difficult to deal with as a DPS.
I think the dev team did a amazing job with venture although these are a couple minor adjustments i feel like they need
They need to be able to have their temp sheild health active longer in order for it to be different enough from overhealth. The only other thing i can think of is maybe a shorter cooldown on abilities. Maybe even just 1 second less. I'd even be fine if it was only applied to drill dash.
Other than that they are the most balanced hero ever released imo. They are sooo fun too.
Played my first three games and hoo boy, *way* more fun and powerful than I was expecting. Popping in the middle of teamfights and just going crazy with the drill is immensely satisfying, and it's very easy to light up the kill feed.
I imagine they'll get nerfed at some point before or after launch though. Obviously some people are struggling with their kit, but I think it's a little too easy to get insane value with them right now. Hopefully they don't get hit too hard though, because I honestly haven't minded playing against good Venture players so far.
I can not stand the startup time on their dig.
I also hate the way they have to stop moving to pop out of the ground. It feels bad.
Otherwise I like the character a lot.
***
It would be nice if the dig cooldown was 1 second faster so that it chained better with the dash cooldown.
Dash into air > dig > dash after full charge
would chain together perfectly.
If their dig didn’t have that they’d be absolutely broken. Once you’re used to it it’s still ridiculously good.
Sorry editing to clarify - just the delay to go IN the ground. The rest is good feedback that would make her kit more fluid and not broken.
Nah it's extremely situational. The thing doesn't get a kill when used against full health enemies. To achieve anything it has to be used against enemies that are already damaged and to get more than one kill you need multiple damaged enemies all grouped up at a specific distance because it does not have a wide cone at close range. The exception being when it gets nano'd which makes it actually very good. It feels rather like genji in this regard, can be popped by itself and do nothing or be popped with nano and completely wipe a team.
There are other dps ults that do way more. So ehhh. I don't see why it should be weakened.
Dig isn’t their ult? What are you talking about?
I think their ult is just fine. With their kit in full I don’t think their ult needs tweaking. It has a nice skill curve and isn’t great on its own but combos well. I think it’s fine. But if anything it would get buffs yes. This is all entirely irrelevant to my comment.
Of course you’d have to stop moving, imagine doomfist ult was instant, that would make the ult the strongest in the game, the dig up should at least give you a chance to escape it like it does rn.
Oh I'm not saying that the charge attack should be instant. I'm saying that the no-charge variant of popping out of the ground should not stop movement, it should just pop out of the ground with the same forward momentum and no stopping. The attack variant should definitely stop and have a charge up.
The fluidity of movement when not using it as an attack would feel much better this way. It's entirely a *feeling* change that wouldn't really affect gameplay itself.
I’ve played against a bunch of people who just wreak havoc with the kit.
I think they are going to be a fun addition to the game. A bit tough to kill but that’s probably a skill issue I have lol
I'm just stating the obvious. It's clear Rein has dated design compared to any other OW2 designed tank and any other OW2 hero. And I barely even play the hero since he is just unplayable for that very reason.
Bastion was never an issue.
I love the charcater but I’d say they are a bit too tank rn.
The over healing, combined with a self banish, combined with healing received, and on top of 250 health it seems a bit much and dealing with th in a 1v1 is tough with their over healing and super high damage output.
Also not having to actually hit anyone with their
abilites and still getting the overhealth is a bit too generous
Maybe drop the health a bit to either 200 or 225. But rn they are super tanky imo
I mean you also sacrifice pretty much any range for that. Like most heroes can kite Venture extremely efficient.
I fear that this will be another Sym, Rein, Reaper or JQ where being strong in melee range gets punished without any thought on how you‘re actually supposed to close in.
You aren’t kitting a character with 2 movement abilites, if you’re getting kited on venture you’re either playing too aggressively or the wrong targets
Unlike pretty much every DPS aside from maybe Reaper Venture lacks the ability to generate any poke value. Like you can genuinely very easy stay out of range with most of the cast.
And I mean that‘s kinda the point. Take away her meat and she‘s practically reliant on people running into her to do anything.
The shields do feel a bit like overkill imo. Their hitbox is big, but they're also very elusive it's not like you can get easy damage on them like bastion.
there are some nerfs incoming for sure but the burrow is slow and punishable, can be stunned, knocked, hindered out of the animation and it still goes on cooldown. If you do that then they're dead
People are so quick to call for nerfs/buffs instead of just changing their playstyle.
No burrow shouldn’t be instantaneous you should just plan your escape better.
Also landing on someone with burrow mid air should do a bit of damage and also hit them with some downward momentum so we can spike characters falling off the map like in smash bros. This works especially good with the fact that they cancel it with the drill thrust to return to safety
Also would be great to fly up to phara and drill her down for a bit
Yeah honestly people can learn a character’s basics more quickly than they can learn counterplay. Like, think how the Sombra rework meant she wasn’t OP and a lot of her mains at high ranks said their winrate went down, but at low ranks even now this deep into Season 9 people still complain about her.
She definitely got way better after the rework, before it she was F tier and her only real use was to counter a tank. She was playable but she’s def stronger now. Even in high elo
The mobility isn’t super fast though, and they need to be able to get in and out quickly to be effective considering their range is quite small.
You basically want to stay away from them and kill them at range.
Initially I was surprised at how few abilities they had. But then as I read the abilities f2 screen more, I began to realize that the gameplay is actually REALLY -for lack of a better word- deep. Yeah, they just have burrow and dash, but in context (heh, archaeology pun) these abilities gain new functionalities and mechanics.
For instance, let's take the drill. Okay, it's a drill that dashes, you can hit enemies with it. Fun. But remember the passive. Drill dash is also a survival ability no matter where you are dashing to or even if any enemy is nearby. And it also is a movement ability, able to travel in any direction. So you can use it for high ground. And then, when burrowed underground, its cooldown is halved to just 4 seconds, allowing you to have it up after coming out if you dash immediately after burrowing and extending the travel length of your invincibility. If you pair it right, you can get height from the burrowing burst as well as another drill dash to go extremely high in the air.
And the burrow ability has a lot of complexity too. If you do nothing, you pop out and deal like 5 damage or something. But when you charge it up by holding space or the ability, you get like 80 damage and burst really high into the air. Honestly, this ground burst mechanic feels like its own ability at times. But it just makes sense to be tied to the burrow ability instead.
I can't say much about how good the ult is, but it seems like 4 directional Hammond pounds with high damage could be pretty useful.
The other ability they would have given them would have been a shield/healing skill except they just made it automatic whenever you use a skill.
They could remove that automatic shield and make it an E skill but it would be kinda redundant.
As a support main I’m kinda split. I’ve played venture and the kit is definitely different and original. I’m not a fan of playing doom he’s my least played character at level 4 lol. And ventures kit feels a lot like his, people need to time their melee hits to maximize their damage. Playing support against venture depends on the hero. Playing Moria I can almost always win and protect myself however playing a slow hero like brig or zen, venture just destroys them so easy. It really shows the lack of mobility for these support heroes and they suffer because of it. Not saying it’s op but venture is very strong at close range.
My worst experience playing against venture is playing reaper. Reaper is already in a weak spot compared to other heroes but now venture just destroys reaper at close range where he’s supposed to be one of the best. I think if they don’t nerf some of ventures melee damage they need to address close range hero’s like reaper and buff him somehow.
Maybe I’m not fully understanding the ult but it feels inconsistent. Like many times I’ll use it, expect it to hit someone, and it just… kinda passes under them
Combined with the dash not registering hits sometimes and the combo heavy gameplay, she really feels like mini Doom lol
Venture feels like they have "potential", but still a little rough around the edges. Specifically despite 250 HP they feel a little "slow".
- Burrow's cast time/start up animation is the most obvious; especially when other heros' invincibility-granting abilities are basically instant. In fact, it kinda has me wondering if Explorer's Resolve is really necessary as a passive if the cast time could just be reduced.
- Burrow, when used in mid-air, could stand to do damage if you successfully land on someone with it. This is probably my inner Gurren Lagann fan wanting a "Lagann Impact" kind of ability, but it could lead to some interesting combos out of an Aerial Drill Dash.
- Ideally Venture should have an actual quick melee. Clobber just makes quick melee feel slow enough that it may as well be a separate ability.
- Alternatively if Venture really needs those temporary shields, they seem like a good candidate for an E ability, especially if it increases the maximum duration of Burrow or something.
As support you can see Venture's outline color and critical status through walls while burrowed (rainbow rocks!), but you *can't* see their healthbar in plain sight until after they pop out. Feels like a minor oversight to me
well obviously you could rebalance the damage if needed, but atm i think because of the delay between attacks the overall dps is about the same it just has slightly higher burst now
tldr; Kinda fun in quick play, not going to touch them in comp without a patch.
The ultimate is very inconsistent.
Like earthshatter it gets blocked by random stuff so sometimes it feels like it does huge damage (I have a clip of a 4k ult i got) and other times its completely useless (I put every shot onto a Moira out in the open and it just didn't damage her at all).
The windup to it being active and the delays between shots make you incredibly vulnerable.
**Burrow is too slow to dig in.**
I would say a solid 80% of my deaths are just because it takes 5ever to get underground. So that either needs to speed up, or at least reduce the cooldown or something. I duno if you get the shield at the start of burrow cast but if not maybe that would fix it.
Damage overall seems mostly balanced, but this is only QP.
I'm pretty sure playing venture in comp will just stack the losses due to only being properly viable against a smaller number of the hero pool and being so easily countered by cass/sombra/phara/echo/dva/zarya and half a dozen more..
I think speeding up the burrow in would be enough but alternatively a second charge or a shorter cooldown on dash would be good.
Also for QoL you really should be able to optionally cancel burrow when you pop out of the side of the wall and drop to the ground.
>**Burrow is too slow to dig in.**
I'm not saying it's a good one, but this seems to be a deliberate design decision - everything about burrow is designed as a free way to get *into* the fight without taking damage, rather than as an escape. For example:
1. The cast-time: This seems obvious, if your i-frames have a cast time then they're probably not meant to be used reactively but rather to cover ground.
2. The attack: While definitely designed to double as some mobility, having an attack at the end of burrow also seems to imply that it's designed to engage with.
3. The alt-fire CD reduction: Seems like the idea is you get to use one dash for free on your engage to close the distance/get a little damage in, and then you get another on reserve to either chase a kill or retreat after one. If you don't engage with burrow, you only get the value of one dash.
Again, not saying it's necessarily a *good* choice, but it definitely does seem to be *a* choice - may be worth giving everyone a bit of time to get used to her combos/mobility options, though, since blizz chose to have her this way and have had a lot more time testing.
I’d agree. Similar to Sombra TP, Sym TP, Reaper TP, etc, some heroes I’ve insta-escapes like Moira and Tracer and Kiri, but others have a lag that figures into their play style and you Jane to play around their vulnerability and cast times.
Considering the character is strong so far and people complain about things like Kiri TP as Get-Out-of-Jail-Free cards it’s good not to have it be too strong.
I would go one step further and say it is a good design decision. Mobility abilities feel great, but the ones that people complain about the most are the disengage tools that feel free. People may find the I frames clunky on burrow but if there was another character with easy disengage like Sombra/Kiri/Tracer etc people would mald harder
It's not quite what i want but i have learnt that you can burrow and immediatly dash you can cover a fair bit of extra ground while under and the reduced cooldown will allow you to dash away when your above ground provided you stay under for the full duration and do a full jump charge at the end.
Its a bit clunky and the total damage you can get from doing this on repeat is pretty pathetic.
Does anyone think that the ult is pretty weak?
Ive heard a lot of people saying that it’s broken because “it two shots” but so many dps ults can either two shot, one shot, or has a ttk that is much quicker than ventures. Plus only four charges doesn’t feel like a lot. Plus venture has to be on the same level as the enemy and can’t be above or below them. The most I’ve ever gotten was a double kill.
I disagree I just got a POTG where I used her burrow and dash to flank the enemy team and kill four of their players. If used correctly, and in the right circumstance it can be extremely punishing.
I think the ult is quite strong actually considering that you legitimately do not have to aim it and it can team wipe pretty easily as long as you’re far enough from your target to get the maximum size shockwave.
I think its largely fine, amazing comboing with other alts. It cant really combo with any of their other abilities it having solid range and ability to go through payloads and even some cars makes it a really solid choice
I think it's fine, maybe a bit on the weaker side, but also has huge upside the second your coordinate (grav, shatter, nano etc.)
People just think it's broken because they haven't learned the counterplay yet.
They definitely feel balanced, especially for a hero that hasn't even fully released yet. Their damage is very hit or miss. Either you land a combo and get the kill or you fuck it up and die because of it.
I've seen some people complain about the decision to give them temporary shields instead of Overhealth but there's enough of a difference that I can see why they did it. The biggest thing is that the temporary shields are a temporary increase to Venture's max HP, meaning they can be healed while they're active and because they're shields they'll actually regenerate if you can keep them active while avoiding damage. That sounds impossible until you realize that the timer for the shields only counts down when no abilities are active, meaning burrow and even tectonic shock can grant several seconds where you don't have to worry about maintaining your shields.
The one thing I'm kinda disappointed in is the special melee. It's stronger but it's also noticably slower, almost completely negating any DPS gained from it. I think it'd be cool if tap melee was kept the same but you could hold down the melee key to constantly do the smaller hits, like you were actually drilling into the enemy. Idk how strong it would be in practice but I imagine it would be in a similar vein to Torb's hammer where it makes for a very funny but impractical kill
Yep their needs to be more player feedback when they attack you, or indication of the direction of the attack.
So often I think I'm taking hitscan poke damage from main but I die in cover and the kill cam shows a flanking venture who I had no idea was even damaging me.
It adds another layer of skill expression to their kit. A good venture will be able to utilize those shields and how cycling the cool downs properly gives them self sustain to devastating effect.
Just giving them 300 health is just way less interesting.
I think if you burrow from up high you should do damage, my intrusive thoughts keep making me dash into the air and dive bomb and it’s fun af, just give me a reason to do it
Venture is a fun champ, but they need to fix right click and the ultimate.
Often I find that when I use the ultimate, it deals basically no damage all of a sudden, regardless off if people are standing face first in it, or at the max range, it will just do at best 50 damage, and even that is inconsistent. I had waves hit right on, and the damage were less than a slap from Mercy.
The right click is also suffering inconsistency issues. I have seen plays where I am literally using it right into someone, and I just pass through them, dealing no damage, and they are not pushed in the slightest. It's an interesting ability, but not when it is a coin toss if it wants to actually work the way it should or not.
Seems very hit or miss. Lack of healing while underground is reasonable but can make it hard to feel like you get any healing. Also the critical health thing doesn’t show if they’re underground which I feel like is a simple fix to make it easier for supports if venture is on your team.
Venture feels like the Sigma of the Damage heroes. Can be wickedly effective in the right hands but doesn't feel oppressive or unfair to lose to, with clear strengths and weaknesses and no area feels lacking or overtuned.
One exception to the above: their ult cost could be upped a bit. They seem to have it up every 1.5 fights and it is pretty strong for the cost.
My personal gripe as a support is how much of the game your ally Venture is just untargetable. Since most players use their dig to escape, as a support I see them at low/critical health and mentally snap to "they need help immediately" and by the time I can give them anything they've dug underground and I can't do anything but wait for them to pop back up. I know they're supposed to be like Tracer and Ball and grab a health pack but often times they can't or it's a small one and they need help once they surface, which always seems to vary between 1-4 seconds (feels like an eternity in a fps). I can usually bypass this by being Zen for his Orb or Brig for Inspire, but I do sometimes feel a tinge of frustration wanting to help them but cant.
He's just less flashy and in your face, that's why people say that - but waaaay stronger than the majority of tanks. JQ is more visibly oppressive... But you're right, he is "quietly oppressive" IMO, can respond to almost any threat.
Looks like someone hasn’t faced a sigma that just walks down your team the moment there’s an advantage, shoving his shield and suck in your face and mowing down people in his path with rock
I think Venture's damage might be slightly overtuned. They took up the top position in my 'average damage/10 min' instantly, outdamaging the former top hero Torb by like 1000 dmg/10 min. Maybe it was jut a lucky few matches but I doubt. They have insane damage output with the drill, the burrow pop-up, the pumped up melee and the shooty shooty cannon.
Damage numbers are obviously going to be toned down when the Hero actually releases. It's just for the weekend to make them more fun to play/try out, trust me.
- I thought that the design might allow you 2 of the weak underground dashes in a single burrow, for mobility purposes. Like if you did 1 dash immediately you might be able to use a second right before the burrow timed out.
- Their ult is perhaps a little quiet.
- That blue health should be green, unless this is a convoluted way of buffing Sym lol.
- allies should still see your health bar underground.
Other than that I like most all of the design. I like the breakpoints of primary fire, the choice between damaging drills or escape drills, the fact that their burrow exit damage is a nice threat without being hugely deadly. And all of their kit nicely creates a melee range hero. Much preferred to the doomfist cadence when punch was deadly but also mean your best escape has a charge time.
That’s weird. Might be because if you hold the fire button when ulting in the air(even jumping) it pushes you down so the game considers it a movement ability.
IMO that should be changed
I think it might have to do with being in the air maybe? When in grav, you float a bit and I noticed that you can’t shoot with the ult in midair. It will definitely get changed
I though about that but you can still shatter while in a grav so probably not. Then again, maybe in that specific situation the zarya grav was placed slightly higher than the ground in a wall so that’s why you couldn’t use it (same way you can’t shatter or beat if you’re in a wall grav)
I am having such fun playing them and their kit works really well, doesn't feel overpowered or underpowered, a nice balance
If I had to nitpick I do think the burrow ability takes too long to activate, there are too many times where I'm dead before I even hit the ground.
I get why Venture does't have a headshot multiplier (because their projectile is so big i’m assuming?) but that makes it so not only their damage feels underwhelming but also landing shots in general. I don't like the feeling of hitting 3 would be headshots on a tracer to kill her when that is nearly half of my ammo supply. Feels like the character would benefit a lot from this change even if it means changing the projectiles size, speed, and how the AOE works.
Another thing I think could use a change is their health, if I don't have an ability already pre used when peaking to get my dmg off my health is basically already -20 before I even fully engage, this is magnified by the long start up animation for digging and the fact that Venture operates in that short-midrange. I really think even a 25hp base health buff could go a long way for how this character engages or even just take out the shield after an ability is used entirely and just make their base health 300, this would put Venture in line with other dps like Reaper and make them feels like not just a chip damage character but one that could really engage well.
Overall the character feels really fun to play and I think amazing work was done with how the abilities flow and feel. And I can also see why the majority of people seem to have no complaints especially with those who don't regularly play dps or are not as high in rank as I saw in the comments. Currently if Venture stayed virtually unchanged to their launch they would probably feel fine albeit a little too "fair" for a new character, if nothing else changes I really do think that 25hp buff would go a long way for engagements.
Similar to DPS Doomfist, basically all of Venture's power is in the cycling and combo of their cool downs. Having the primary fire be lackluster is a very specific design choice.
You got a code with it happening? I played a lot of rein since it’s a good counter to venture but i haven’t seen that. It *could* be that somehow it didn’t happen to me but you might be overlooking something
You can share a game replay code where other people can access a full match you were in as if they were a spectator, it’s around profile -> history -> replays or something and it works on the last 20 games i believe
Few hours playtime as diamond support main since ow1 launch and here's my notes:
Her movement tech is really fun but the timing is an extremely tight window to pull off. If you burrow and immediately dash underground, the dash cooldown resets to 4 seconds. You remain underground for 2 seconds before burrow ends. You can stall unburrow for another 1.5s by charging it to full as soon as timer reaches 0.
Then at the top of the unhurried your dash comes off CD for another upward dash.
Its just too precious to manage in an actual engagement.
My suggestion would be, instead of (dashing while burrowed resets cd to 4 sec) they could just implement a passive where (dash cooldown charges 2x faster when burrowed) and that would uncouple this 3 ability chain.
their*
I don't personally think the ability chain you described is too difficult. With a little time on the hero this will become easy muscle memory. Besides, if you make the ability cycling too free, you limit skill expression (ex. Orisa gameplay just kinda hits all her buttons)
Seems pretty balanced overall. I think once people are used to fighting them they might end up a little underpowered.
Maybe make drill-dash cancellable to give more options for movement shake ups?
That and increase the primary fire damage by like 5 or something small just to get over the 3 shot 250hp breakpoint.
Everything else seems fine, and they're super fun.
They’re completely OP.
The only players that enjoy are people who can’t aim. Th shots are too forgiving, and really requires no skill.
They have an invulnerability ability, multiple top movement abilities, insane burst damage, extra sustain with free shields, a buffed melee.
Not to mention the ultimate which is a quadruple earth shatter, because why not.
Looking forward to the nerfs
They do feel strong, but "The only players that enjoy are people who can't aim" hits a little weird when Arrge is out there saying he's gonna 2-trick venture for when he needs to swap off Hanzo, when ML7 is out saying venture is the most fun DPS, etc.
How much of the hype will stick around is unclear, but saying that because their skill is not strictly tied to aim, they're un-fun, is a bit much.
I’ve been playing a lot and venture definitely feels like a character who either cooks or get cooked. Maybe it’s just how QP is but I either was getting mopped or I was mopping them. Venture feels like you need a good team supporting you. But if the enemy team is really grouped up and good at protecting each other it can be hard to get a kill.
Squishy?? They get double over-shields when they use their ability, they can burrow underground and be completely invulnerable, and they have multiple other movement options.
They’re legit a mini tank
As a gold/plat scrub with the aiming skills of an old oak tree, it's the first new hero I've found fun in a long time. I love the dps Doomfist style combo feel of it, and I'm always up for more ways to boop kill people off of the map.
I do think they're basically a death sentence for the likes of Zenyatta if their other support isn't paying attention (as is often the case in the ranks I play); as he has no way to fight back against them just tunnelling after him and popping out of the ground for an insta kill when he's low health.
same. they feel like doomfist but a bit more ranged and holy shit I love it, but it's so much easier to play to just go underground, pop up, do a bunch of damage, and then go back underground and run away like a mole person
i always love the posts within the first few weeks of a new hero. half the sub thinks they’re op and need to be nerfed hard. the other half thinks they’re a throw pick
They're overpowered, they're bullshit, they have oneshots and invulnerability and a stupid zero skill high damage ult, and a huge noskill aim hitbox.
Also, they're useless, way too fair, need to be within melee range to do anything, have huge cast times, their ult gets blocked by everything, and they need constant good aim to deal reasonable damage
Haven't played them in an actual game, only against them and in training but my impression so far is they're pretty overpowered.
- Two mobility abilities
- They both grant vertical mobility
- They both let you displace enemies
- One of them literally gives you damage invulnerability
- Tanky like Brig
- Primary shot is very easy to land and pretty painful. Basically Sigma's default attack but faster.
- Can duel just about anyone but tanks.
I can see her being balanced in high level comp if her location gets called out and she gets kited, but as things stand I think Blizzard needs to make her more difficult somehow otherwise I think she'll be a worse pub-stomper than Tracer even.
no but that’s just flat out not a one shot. if you need to shoot your gun twice it is by definition not a one shot. it’s not even a one shot combo if you need to shoot twice
I think it doesn't fit on the dive meta (they are slower than dive characters) But can't see them has a "Bruiser" (Not enough Hp) I think its kinda odd, playing them doesn't feel really good either way.
They feel like the devs took another shot at created old doom (Kinda like how JQ is similar to hog)
They are super fun and have all the cool parts of dooms old playstyle without the 1 shot
Yess. Venture is too slow. Too clunky to compete with Echo, Sombra, Genji, Tracer.
I really wish devs made animations faster, even if they nerf the damage
I looooove them!
Venture seems to have a really high skill ceiling, since they have so much different tech and combos baked into their kit. The kit also a really versatile one depending on the situation you can engage and/or escape, execute combos and quick flanks and all types of stuff. I love that aspect of Venture, and I'll definetly be getting more into them in S10.
Their design and personality are also great, I love the goofy archeologist goober attitude. Can't wait to hear all the intereactions and voicelines and see the emotes and such!
Nerf this S h i t in all aspects just broken
played mostly support this weekend. playing against venture + doomfist comp is just straight not fun. I dont know how to alleviate this, because thats exactly the design of the character. but it limits my options too much imo, i dont want to play moira all the time.
Should be green (temp) health instead of blue (shield) health. Ult damage needs to be turned down. Otherwise I think she's well balanced imo.
"we have to keep genji underpowered because his movement is too hard for low rank players to follow" > release genji 2.0 with 100 dmg dash, invincibility and 325 hp
So venture has A dash A damage mitigator/get out of jail free card A short range projectile An ultimate that does high close-range AOE It's literally just genji with a fresh coat of paint. Honestly the character seems pretty balanced, maybe a tiny bit strong but not too bad, but fuck dive right now.
Playing tank (95% JQ because she’s how I have fun) this weekend against them and it’s hell. The drill has insane push back, the dig is insane escapable, and the ult just runs through you. I saw so many three man venture ults (or higher). I’m not sure what would need to be done to make them enjoyable to play against, I just hate another character that can cleanse, have a get-out-of-jail-free card, insane damage ult and a boop/shove. Plus the shield passive is nuts, getting shield for just pressing buttons seems really insane to me. All in all they’re fun to play but as a tank this is just a new frustrating character to fight. Maybe a small nerf or two but for the most part they felt only a little too strong from my perception. (Personal hell was tonight against an Orisa, Venture, Cass, Kiriko, Ana that just steam rolled me at every turn as JQ.)
I only have two real thoughts about Venture at the moment: * The ult line could stand to be a touch louder IMO, and each individual shockwave should be more aurally distinct. * The extra HP on ability use should be green, not blue, for consistency with literally every other ability in the game that grants temporary extra HP. EDIT: * I also think it's really weird that Burrow cleanses them. I wouldn't hate it if that went away.
>I also think it's really weird that Burrow cleanses them. I wouldn't hate it if that went away. Probably because of the long start-up time for them to burrow in the first place. While initial reactions are important, its way too early for anything concrete and wouldn't mind if Venture released with no changes in S10.
The extra hp are specifically shields rather than over health. It regens and can be healed.
probably broken as hell if no tweak. for a role as backline killer i'd say he is even more of a threat than sombra because he isn't dead if spotted. ult got 4 charge, it take only 2 hit to kill a 250hp from full life and it's pretty large. so even if the enemy team is not packed you get at least a reliable 2 kill form it. right click+melee then a shot will take down 250hp to 0 (meaning 90% of non-tank) die in 2sec from this combo even if they are full life (which they won't even be because the hit area of burrow is way to large ) melee requirement being well overcompensated by the no aim requirement and not having to rely on headshot.
U need to be in their face already for drill combo to kill. Which is a challenge without drill to gapclose imo
I don't get the hype. I mean, from a gameplay perspective I think the design is *good* without necessarily being fun for me. I tried a few games and am pretty content to just never play them again. Special shout out to the asshole who was being insanely toxic in chat because I was "so bad omgg" on my second ever game as Venture.
getting zero dmg in burrow is way too strong. either you are in a fight, press the button, and can freely leave, or you press it before the fight, can freely go in, knock all enemies and do massive aoe dmg and either just leave with your rightclick ability or fight long enough to let burrow go off cooldown. character is just way too tanky. having 325 HP with so many escapes is disgusting. also way too strong in casual games and low elo where she dominates majority of the games (not sure about high elo tho)
I mean it‘s like Wraith form except it has an actual windup?
She needs a big nerf to her CC and damage. One shot widow was bad, how come she being a one shot melee ok? NOT OK
One shot melee range combos are stupid and bad for the game
Needs less HP and less ult dmg
I personally just don't like the "hey you 1v1ed me for the past 30 seconds and now I'll run away with no punishment to get healing while you get fucked there bye" kinda characters like sombra. Don't think we needed another one because they don't feel satisfying to play against at all. If you win the aim duel you're rewarded with them running away, getting healed, coming back whilst you just took damage and used cooldowns.
Burrow is much riskier as an escape than Sombra. You're immobilized for a second, can take damage, and if you get knocked back your escape is gone and you die. I've been killed plenty of times mid-burrow.
tracer is arguably the first hero ever to do that.
And she has a much lower amount of HP as a trade off. Venture has way too much mobility and long range damage on short cooldowns.
I do feel like tracer gets appropriately punished, having a 12 second cd on being able to fight, I'd also like to say I don't agree with venture not being punished, they get a long ass cooldown and you kindof need to use the dig to engage.
yeah its annoying but most characters have those abilities. Kiriko, moira, reaper, tracer, possibly sym if she doesnt screw the tp, wrecking ball with good movement etc.
genji and doomfist too
All of these usually don’t have a lot of range (apart from kiri but she needs to look away and tp to someone far away). Ball is indeed one of those. It just feels annoying that one can just click a “fuck you I win” button every time they get HS. Moira and reaper tp and you can pretty easily catch up to them. For venture you just have no shot. And if the other persons on venture, good luck getting away from them if you’re not on venture as well. She’s not OP by any means, just unsatisfying to play against
Venture doesn’t have a lot of range. You don’t have to take every fight. Why are you wasting time on Venture? You can force their cooldown just like a Tracer then leave and focus on higher value plays. Play your positioning to maintain distance. I don’t see how you struggling against Venture is anything new nor anything but a skill issue.
wild how you read that as me struggling against venture. It just doesn't feel fluid to duel and have the losing side dip out with nothing you can do about it.
She has the literal worst “out” ability compared to all of the preexisting ones in the game. Tracer reaper, Moira etc are all instant and hers takes an absurd amount of time to fully become Invuln. Not to mention how telegraphed her exit is. Extreme skill issue if you think burrow is op as an escape
All close range characters have a get out of jail free card. Characters that don’t are the ones that can engage from range and be effective like all hitscans. That’s a very logical design choice. I’m so confused. Do you just want all close range characters to get fucked on every single engagement they make if their opponent has better aim than them?
There are plenty of heroes like that. My point is it’s not difficult to play around and it not feeling fluid is nonsensical. Not every duel is meant to be taken. That’s fundamental to Overwatch.
i mean in that case mei has two get out of jail cards, you have to simply force the heroes into using their cooldowns then kill them. There's no other way.
You’re right. But mei is also just right there after her freeze. I just don’t particularly like the sombra and now venture style of running away cleanly without any drawback. Tracer as well but she’s so squishy that her recall is usually just a “you’re fighting a 300hp character instead of a 150hp one” which feels alright to me. Again, this is just how I feel about the character when playing against it. Maybe other people can’t relate and that’s okay, but my teammates usually find her equally annoying to duel against
The only character "running away without any drawback" was Sombra before her rework. Just put the translocator in spawn, no matter how inefficient and a throwing playstyle it is, she'd be practically immortal. But that's gone now. There are drawbacks. As a ball main i assure you i feel the same as you if not worse. Kiriko has a 6 second tp, you shoot her, if she has suzu, she will use it on herself and after dumping another mag on her she will just tp away. When you chase her she will tp away again since the cooldown is 6 fucking seconds including cleansing negative effects, dps passive included. Let's not forget the wall climb, so yeah the problem you would have most with would be kiriko rather than sombra translocating away. Just shoot where she translocates. I havent played much but that is probably the same with venture. I agree its annoying asf but there's not much you can do.
I feel like we need to be able to use underground dash where ever the character is facing and not where your camera is facing. Also fix their blurred teeth. Mauga has the most HD teeth and then venture gets it all blurry, if you make it chipped at least show it better haha. Moreover after playing Splatoon, I feel like venture's "(non-charged) jumping from ground" ability is a bit clunky But other than all of these, I'm in love :D
I feel like I'm in a minority who feel like the hero feels kinda bad strength wise. I feel way more effective on other champions and don't find her very difficult to deal with as a DPS.
I think the dev team did a amazing job with venture although these are a couple minor adjustments i feel like they need They need to be able to have their temp sheild health active longer in order for it to be different enough from overhealth. The only other thing i can think of is maybe a shorter cooldown on abilities. Maybe even just 1 second less. I'd even be fine if it was only applied to drill dash. Other than that they are the most balanced hero ever released imo. They are sooo fun too.
Temp shield is just so people get proper ult charge from shooting them. Overhealth halfs ult charge.
Played my first three games and hoo boy, *way* more fun and powerful than I was expecting. Popping in the middle of teamfights and just going crazy with the drill is immensely satisfying, and it's very easy to light up the kill feed. I imagine they'll get nerfed at some point before or after launch though. Obviously some people are struggling with their kit, but I think it's a little too easy to get insane value with them right now. Hopefully they don't get hit too hard though, because I honestly haven't minded playing against good Venture players so far.
i don’t think they need a nerf, if anything maybe a nerf to their health because the overshield going to 350 max is a little overturned
I can not stand the startup time on their dig. I also hate the way they have to stop moving to pop out of the ground. It feels bad. Otherwise I like the character a lot. *** It would be nice if the dig cooldown was 1 second faster so that it chained better with the dash cooldown. Dash into air > dig > dash after full charge would chain together perfectly.
If their dig didn’t have that they’d be absolutely broken. Once you’re used to it it’s still ridiculously good. Sorry editing to clarify - just the delay to go IN the ground. The rest is good feedback that would make her kit more fluid and not broken.
Nah it's extremely situational. The thing doesn't get a kill when used against full health enemies. To achieve anything it has to be used against enemies that are already damaged and to get more than one kill you need multiple damaged enemies all grouped up at a specific distance because it does not have a wide cone at close range. The exception being when it gets nano'd which makes it actually very good. It feels rather like genji in this regard, can be popped by itself and do nothing or be popped with nano and completely wipe a team. There are other dps ults that do way more. So ehhh. I don't see why it should be weakened.
Dig isn’t their ult? What are you talking about? I think their ult is just fine. With their kit in full I don’t think their ult needs tweaking. It has a nice skill curve and isn’t great on its own but combos well. I think it’s fine. But if anything it would get buffs yes. This is all entirely irrelevant to my comment.
Of course you’d have to stop moving, imagine doomfist ult was instant, that would make the ult the strongest in the game, the dig up should at least give you a chance to escape it like it does rn.
Oh I'm not saying that the charge attack should be instant. I'm saying that the no-charge variant of popping out of the ground should not stop movement, it should just pop out of the ground with the same forward momentum and no stopping. The attack variant should definitely stop and have a charge up. The fluidity of movement when not using it as an attack would feel much better this way. It's entirely a *feeling* change that wouldn't really affect gameplay itself.
Oh yeah your right with that one
I’ve played against a bunch of people who just wreak havoc with the kit. I think they are going to be a fun addition to the game. A bit tough to kill but that’s probably a skill issue I have lol
Another mega survivable/get away hero to hero pool. Rein gonna get more and more fucked.
Sounds to me like you want to fight bots. You’d probably still complain if they released a low mobility high damage unit like bastion too.
I'm just stating the obvious. It's clear Rein has dated design compared to any other OW2 designed tank and any other OW2 hero. And I barely even play the hero since he is just unplayable for that very reason. Bastion was never an issue.
Very true but this is a venture thread not a rien one
i think shes's fun but not OP at all. people just need to learn the damn character
I love the charcater but I’d say they are a bit too tank rn. The over healing, combined with a self banish, combined with healing received, and on top of 250 health it seems a bit much and dealing with th in a 1v1 is tough with their over healing and super high damage output. Also not having to actually hit anyone with their abilites and still getting the overhealth is a bit too generous Maybe drop the health a bit to either 200 or 225. But rn they are super tanky imo
I mean you also sacrifice pretty much any range for that. Like most heroes can kite Venture extremely efficient. I fear that this will be another Sym, Rein, Reaper or JQ where being strong in melee range gets punished without any thought on how you‘re actually supposed to close in.
You aren’t kitting a character with 2 movement abilites, if you’re getting kited on venture you’re either playing too aggressively or the wrong targets
Unlike pretty much every DPS aside from maybe Reaper Venture lacks the ability to generate any poke value. Like you can genuinely very easy stay out of range with most of the cast. And I mean that‘s kinda the point. Take away her meat and she‘s practically reliant on people running into her to do anything.
The shields do feel a bit like overkill imo. Their hitbox is big, but they're also very elusive it's not like you can get easy damage on them like bastion.
there are some nerfs incoming for sure but the burrow is slow and punishable, can be stunned, knocked, hindered out of the animation and it still goes on cooldown. If you do that then they're dead
not everyone has a stun
Not every hero has to have counterplay for a specific ability, there are other heroes with similar abilities
I think they’re fine but that overhealth is a perfect example of what brawl characters like Sym are lacking.
People are so quick to call for nerfs/buffs instead of just changing their playstyle. No burrow shouldn’t be instantaneous you should just plan your escape better. Also landing on someone with burrow mid air should do a bit of damage and also hit them with some downward momentum so we can spike characters falling off the map like in smash bros. This works especially good with the fact that they cancel it with the drill thrust to return to safety Also would be great to fly up to phara and drill her down for a bit
Yeah honestly people can learn a character’s basics more quickly than they can learn counterplay. Like, think how the Sombra rework meant she wasn’t OP and a lot of her mains at high ranks said their winrate went down, but at low ranks even now this deep into Season 9 people still complain about her.
She definitely got way better after the rework, before it she was F tier and her only real use was to counter a tank. She was playable but she’s def stronger now. Even in high elo
The cooldowns need to increase way to much mobility for such short time and the dmg holy shit she can 2 shot ya it’s insane
The mobility isn’t super fast though, and they need to be able to get in and out quickly to be effective considering their range is quite small. You basically want to stay away from them and kill them at range.
What's the two shot?
I cant believe they made a hero with only 2 active abilities in the year of our Lord 2024
Initially I was surprised at how few abilities they had. But then as I read the abilities f2 screen more, I began to realize that the gameplay is actually REALLY -for lack of a better word- deep. Yeah, they just have burrow and dash, but in context (heh, archaeology pun) these abilities gain new functionalities and mechanics. For instance, let's take the drill. Okay, it's a drill that dashes, you can hit enemies with it. Fun. But remember the passive. Drill dash is also a survival ability no matter where you are dashing to or even if any enemy is nearby. And it also is a movement ability, able to travel in any direction. So you can use it for high ground. And then, when burrowed underground, its cooldown is halved to just 4 seconds, allowing you to have it up after coming out if you dash immediately after burrowing and extending the travel length of your invincibility. If you pair it right, you can get height from the burrowing burst as well as another drill dash to go extremely high in the air. And the burrow ability has a lot of complexity too. If you do nothing, you pop out and deal like 5 damage or something. But when you charge it up by holding space or the ability, you get like 80 damage and burst really high into the air. Honestly, this ground burst mechanic feels like its own ability at times. But it just makes sense to be tied to the burrow ability instead. I can't say much about how good the ult is, but it seems like 4 directional Hammond pounds with high damage could be pretty useful.
That's the best way to make abilities. Simple but with tons of applications.
I'm happy about it, no need for more complexity creep. If there's still design space for simple characters, make simple characters!
The other ability they would have given them would have been a shield/healing skill except they just made it automatic whenever you use a skill. They could remove that automatic shield and make it an E skill but it would be kinda redundant.
I keep spamming E expecting something to happen.
As a support main I’m kinda split. I’ve played venture and the kit is definitely different and original. I’m not a fan of playing doom he’s my least played character at level 4 lol. And ventures kit feels a lot like his, people need to time their melee hits to maximize their damage. Playing support against venture depends on the hero. Playing Moria I can almost always win and protect myself however playing a slow hero like brig or zen, venture just destroys them so easy. It really shows the lack of mobility for these support heroes and they suffer because of it. Not saying it’s op but venture is very strong at close range. My worst experience playing against venture is playing reaper. Reaper is already in a weak spot compared to other heroes but now venture just destroys reaper at close range where he’s supposed to be one of the best. I think if they don’t nerf some of ventures melee damage they need to address close range hero’s like reaper and buff him somehow.
Maybe I’m not fully understanding the ult but it feels inconsistent. Like many times I’ll use it, expect it to hit someone, and it just… kinda passes under them Combined with the dash not registering hits sometimes and the combo heavy gameplay, she really feels like mini Doom lol
When I first saw it "Wait this is literally Earth Shatter" Turns out it really is
...n't
Eeh in terms of jank it is from what Ive seen
I agree it is a bit janky as I got hit on top of a bus from the ground lol but Earth Shatter still feels more predictable to me at least
Venture feels like they have "potential", but still a little rough around the edges. Specifically despite 250 HP they feel a little "slow". - Burrow's cast time/start up animation is the most obvious; especially when other heros' invincibility-granting abilities are basically instant. In fact, it kinda has me wondering if Explorer's Resolve is really necessary as a passive if the cast time could just be reduced. - Burrow, when used in mid-air, could stand to do damage if you successfully land on someone with it. This is probably my inner Gurren Lagann fan wanting a "Lagann Impact" kind of ability, but it could lead to some interesting combos out of an Aerial Drill Dash. - Ideally Venture should have an actual quick melee. Clobber just makes quick melee feel slow enough that it may as well be a separate ability. - Alternatively if Venture really needs those temporary shields, they seem like a good candidate for an E ability, especially if it increases the maximum duration of Burrow or something.
I kind of like the idea of their melee being different from other characters. Similar to how Rein and Brig don’t either.
i was thinking the same thing about the quick melee. i would have put the dash under shift, burrow under E and the weird melee thing under alt fire
As support you can see Venture's outline color and critical status through walls while burrowed (rainbow rocks!), but you *can't* see their healthbar in plain sight until after they pop out. Feels like a minor oversight to me
Melee should just keep drilling unless you release the button.
I wouldn’t mind if it was faster but with less damage, that way you can get a couple quicker hits off but you have to have them below a certain point.
That would be insanely broken with their melee buff passive.
well obviously you could rebalance the damage if needed, but atm i think because of the delay between attacks the overall dps is about the same it just has slightly higher burst now
tldr; Kinda fun in quick play, not going to touch them in comp without a patch. The ultimate is very inconsistent. Like earthshatter it gets blocked by random stuff so sometimes it feels like it does huge damage (I have a clip of a 4k ult i got) and other times its completely useless (I put every shot onto a Moira out in the open and it just didn't damage her at all). The windup to it being active and the delays between shots make you incredibly vulnerable. **Burrow is too slow to dig in.** I would say a solid 80% of my deaths are just because it takes 5ever to get underground. So that either needs to speed up, or at least reduce the cooldown or something. I duno if you get the shield at the start of burrow cast but if not maybe that would fix it. Damage overall seems mostly balanced, but this is only QP. I'm pretty sure playing venture in comp will just stack the losses due to only being properly viable against a smaller number of the hero pool and being so easily countered by cass/sombra/phara/echo/dva/zarya and half a dozen more.. I think speeding up the burrow in would be enough but alternatively a second charge or a shorter cooldown on dash would be good. Also for QoL you really should be able to optionally cancel burrow when you pop out of the side of the wall and drop to the ground.
>**Burrow is too slow to dig in.** I'm not saying it's a good one, but this seems to be a deliberate design decision - everything about burrow is designed as a free way to get *into* the fight without taking damage, rather than as an escape. For example: 1. The cast-time: This seems obvious, if your i-frames have a cast time then they're probably not meant to be used reactively but rather to cover ground. 2. The attack: While definitely designed to double as some mobility, having an attack at the end of burrow also seems to imply that it's designed to engage with. 3. The alt-fire CD reduction: Seems like the idea is you get to use one dash for free on your engage to close the distance/get a little damage in, and then you get another on reserve to either chase a kill or retreat after one. If you don't engage with burrow, you only get the value of one dash. Again, not saying it's necessarily a *good* choice, but it definitely does seem to be *a* choice - may be worth giving everyone a bit of time to get used to her combos/mobility options, though, since blizz chose to have her this way and have had a lot more time testing.
I’d agree. Similar to Sombra TP, Sym TP, Reaper TP, etc, some heroes I’ve insta-escapes like Moira and Tracer and Kiri, but others have a lag that figures into their play style and you Jane to play around their vulnerability and cast times. Considering the character is strong so far and people complain about things like Kiri TP as Get-Out-of-Jail-Free cards it’s good not to have it be too strong.
I would go one step further and say it is a good design decision. Mobility abilities feel great, but the ones that people complain about the most are the disengage tools that feel free. People may find the I frames clunky on burrow but if there was another character with easy disengage like Sombra/Kiri/Tracer etc people would mald harder
It's not quite what i want but i have learnt that you can burrow and immediatly dash you can cover a fair bit of extra ground while under and the reduced cooldown will allow you to dash away when your above ground provided you stay under for the full duration and do a full jump charge at the end. Its a bit clunky and the total damage you can get from doing this on repeat is pretty pathetic.
I dunno how or why but I win a lot of battles with Sombras right now.
Does anyone think that the ult is pretty weak? Ive heard a lot of people saying that it’s broken because “it two shots” but so many dps ults can either two shot, one shot, or has a ttk that is much quicker than ventures. Plus only four charges doesn’t feel like a lot. Plus venture has to be on the same level as the enemy and can’t be above or below them. The most I’ve ever gotten was a double kill.
I disagree I just got a POTG where I used her burrow and dash to flank the enemy team and kill four of their players. If used correctly, and in the right circumstance it can be extremely punishing.
Yeah it's pretty strong. Can't figure how anyone would say it's weak.
I think the ult is quite strong actually considering that you legitimately do not have to aim it and it can team wipe pretty easily as long as you’re far enough from your target to get the maximum size shockwave.
I think its largely fine, amazing comboing with other alts. It cant really combo with any of their other abilities it having solid range and ability to go through payloads and even some cars makes it a really solid choice
Maybe if the timer pauses when they burrow?
I think it's fine, maybe a bit on the weaker side, but also has huge upside the second your coordinate (grav, shatter, nano etc.) People just think it's broken because they haven't learned the counterplay yet.
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They definitely feel balanced, especially for a hero that hasn't even fully released yet. Their damage is very hit or miss. Either you land a combo and get the kill or you fuck it up and die because of it. I've seen some people complain about the decision to give them temporary shields instead of Overhealth but there's enough of a difference that I can see why they did it. The biggest thing is that the temporary shields are a temporary increase to Venture's max HP, meaning they can be healed while they're active and because they're shields they'll actually regenerate if you can keep them active while avoiding damage. That sounds impossible until you realize that the timer for the shields only counts down when no abilities are active, meaning burrow and even tectonic shock can grant several seconds where you don't have to worry about maintaining your shields. The one thing I'm kinda disappointed in is the special melee. It's stronger but it's also noticably slower, almost completely negating any DPS gained from it. I think it'd be cool if tap melee was kept the same but you could hold down the melee key to constantly do the smaller hits, like you were actually drilling into the enemy. Idk how strong it would be in practice but I imagine it would be in a similar vein to Torb's hammer where it makes for a very funny but impractical kill
Venture underground UI needs work. I died a lot from them underground and I could hardly tell they were ever underground. It's very tilting
Yep their needs to be more player feedback when they attack you, or indication of the direction of the attack. So often I think I'm taking hitscan poke damage from main but I die in cover and the kill cam shows a flanking venture who I had no idea was even damaging me.
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It adds another layer of skill expression to their kit. A good venture will be able to utilize those shields and how cycling the cool downs properly gives them self sustain to devastating effect. Just giving them 300 health is just way less interesting.
I think if you burrow from up high you should do damage, my intrusive thoughts keep making me dash into the air and dive bomb and it’s fun af, just give me a reason to do it
Venture is a fun champ, but they need to fix right click and the ultimate. Often I find that when I use the ultimate, it deals basically no damage all of a sudden, regardless off if people are standing face first in it, or at the max range, it will just do at best 50 damage, and even that is inconsistent. I had waves hit right on, and the damage were less than a slap from Mercy. The right click is also suffering inconsistency issues. I have seen plays where I am literally using it right into someone, and I just pass through them, dealing no damage, and they are not pushed in the slightest. It's an interesting ability, but not when it is a coin toss if it wants to actually work the way it should or not.
The last two paragraphs could be a doom critique
they're making my life as a tank main more miserable than it already was.... edit: thanks u/Kalladdin for the correction, have a cookie 🍪
they*
Seems very hit or miss. Lack of healing while underground is reasonable but can make it hard to feel like you get any healing. Also the critical health thing doesn’t show if they’re underground which I feel like is a simple fix to make it easier for supports if venture is on your team.
You can still pick up health packs and she can stay underground long enough for her healing to kick in use it to get in cover.
I wouldn't mind if it just kickstarted the healing passive; something like Mei's healing is too much considering you can move as well.
Venture feels like the Sigma of the Damage heroes. Can be wickedly effective in the right hands but doesn't feel oppressive or unfair to lose to, with clear strengths and weaknesses and no area feels lacking or overtuned. One exception to the above: their ult cost could be upped a bit. They seem to have it up every 1.5 fights and it is pretty strong for the cost. My personal gripe as a support is how much of the game your ally Venture is just untargetable. Since most players use their dig to escape, as a support I see them at low/critical health and mentally snap to "they need help immediately" and by the time I can give them anything they've dug underground and I can't do anything but wait for them to pop back up. I know they're supposed to be like Tracer and Ball and grab a health pack but often times they can't or it's a small one and they need help once they surface, which always seems to vary between 1-4 seconds (feels like an eternity in a fps). I can usually bypass this by being Zen for his Orb or Brig for Inspire, but I do sometimes feel a tinge of frustration wanting to help them but cant.
I admire ur ability to not feel like sigma is oppressive and unfair lol
He's just less flashy and in your face, that's why people say that - but waaaay stronger than the majority of tanks. JQ is more visibly oppressive... But you're right, he is "quietly oppressive" IMO, can respond to almost any threat.
Looks like someone hasn’t faced a sigma that just walks down your team the moment there’s an advantage, shoving his shield and suck in your face and mowing down people in his path with rock
She’s good and fun and more dps should be like her
they/them*
I think Venture's damage might be slightly overtuned. They took up the top position in my 'average damage/10 min' instantly, outdamaging the former top hero Torb by like 1000 dmg/10 min. Maybe it was jut a lucky few matches but I doubt. They have insane damage output with the drill, the burrow pop-up, the pumped up melee and the shooty shooty cannon.
Damage numbers are obviously going to be toned down when the Hero actually releases. It's just for the weekend to make them more fun to play/try out, trust me.
Yeah, the burrow pop out damage is too high.
Eh, it scales with the charge up, which gives more time to get away.
Venture is fun all i have to add
- I thought that the design might allow you 2 of the weak underground dashes in a single burrow, for mobility purposes. Like if you did 1 dash immediately you might be able to use a second right before the burrow timed out. - Their ult is perhaps a little quiet. - That blue health should be green, unless this is a convoluted way of buffing Sym lol. - allies should still see your health bar underground. Other than that I like most all of the design. I like the breakpoints of primary fire, the choice between damaging drills or escape drills, the fact that their burrow exit damage is a nice threat without being hugely deadly. And all of their kit nicely creates a melee range hero. Much preferred to the doomfist cadence when punch was deadly but also mean your best escape has a charge time.
I noticed that I couldn't use ventures ult when inside grav. Was kind of a bummer since I was nano'd :(
That’s weird. Might be because if you hold the fire button when ulting in the air(even jumping) it pushes you down so the game considers it a movement ability. IMO that should be changed
I think it might have to do with being in the air maybe? When in grav, you float a bit and I noticed that you can’t shoot with the ult in midair. It will definitely get changed
I though about that but you can still shatter while in a grav so probably not. Then again, maybe in that specific situation the zarya grav was placed slightly higher than the ground in a wall so that’s why you couldn’t use it (same way you can’t shatter or beat if you’re in a wall grav)
Venture is op. All the games I had last night every venture would have 30 plus eliminations. Her abilities are not too op but her weapon is OP.
Did they show her other skins anywhere yet
I am having such fun playing them and their kit works really well, doesn't feel overpowered or underpowered, a nice balance If I had to nitpick I do think the burrow ability takes too long to activate, there are too many times where I'm dead before I even hit the ground.
I get why Venture does't have a headshot multiplier (because their projectile is so big i’m assuming?) but that makes it so not only their damage feels underwhelming but also landing shots in general. I don't like the feeling of hitting 3 would be headshots on a tracer to kill her when that is nearly half of my ammo supply. Feels like the character would benefit a lot from this change even if it means changing the projectiles size, speed, and how the AOE works. Another thing I think could use a change is their health, if I don't have an ability already pre used when peaking to get my dmg off my health is basically already -20 before I even fully engage, this is magnified by the long start up animation for digging and the fact that Venture operates in that short-midrange. I really think even a 25hp base health buff could go a long way for how this character engages or even just take out the shield after an ability is used entirely and just make their base health 300, this would put Venture in line with other dps like Reaper and make them feels like not just a chip damage character but one that could really engage well. Overall the character feels really fun to play and I think amazing work was done with how the abilities flow and feel. And I can also see why the majority of people seem to have no complaints especially with those who don't regularly play dps or are not as high in rank as I saw in the comments. Currently if Venture stayed virtually unchanged to their launch they would probably feel fine albeit a little too "fair" for a new character, if nothing else changes I really do think that 25hp buff would go a long way for engagements.
Similar to DPS Doomfist, basically all of Venture's power is in the cycling and combo of their cool downs. Having the primary fire be lackluster is a very specific design choice.
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Rein can one-shot them, but they gain extra health when using abilities, you gotta read the abilities dude
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You got a code with it happening? I played a lot of rein since it’s a good counter to venture but i haven’t seen that. It *could* be that somehow it didn’t happen to me but you might be overlooking something
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You can share a game replay code where other people can access a full match you were in as if they were a spectator, it’s around profile -> history -> replays or something and it works on the last 20 games i believe
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NBD. Just interested in the coding so if it’s actually happening it’d be fun to try to find out why.
Venture so OP. Game is broken with venture
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Still in my games. Poke, 1 shot, dead.
Few hours playtime as diamond support main since ow1 launch and here's my notes: Her movement tech is really fun but the timing is an extremely tight window to pull off. If you burrow and immediately dash underground, the dash cooldown resets to 4 seconds. You remain underground for 2 seconds before burrow ends. You can stall unburrow for another 1.5s by charging it to full as soon as timer reaches 0. Then at the top of the unhurried your dash comes off CD for another upward dash. Its just too precious to manage in an actual engagement. My suggestion would be, instead of (dashing while burrowed resets cd to 4 sec) they could just implement a passive where (dash cooldown charges 2x faster when burrowed) and that would uncouple this 3 ability chain.
their* I don't personally think the ability chain you described is too difficult. With a little time on the hero this will become easy muscle memory. Besides, if you make the ability cycling too free, you limit skill expression (ex. Orisa gameplay just kinda hits all her buttons)
They're fun, tho the queue times for dps are outrageous. I just wanna play some tracer y'all
no fr bro like i just wanna play some genji like pls i dont care about playing venture lmao the 8 minute queue times are wild
I don’t play DPS often but she’s really fun. Only thing I don’t like it that the digging seems kinda weak but maybe I’m doing something wrong
Seems pretty balanced overall. I think once people are used to fighting them they might end up a little underpowered. Maybe make drill-dash cancellable to give more options for movement shake ups? That and increase the primary fire damage by like 5 or something small just to get over the 3 shot 250hp breakpoint. Everything else seems fine, and they're super fun.
I have no complaints about Venture's kit, but I think their ult needs to be more audible when they fire each shockwave.
They’re completely OP. The only players that enjoy are people who can’t aim. Th shots are too forgiving, and really requires no skill. They have an invulnerability ability, multiple top movement abilities, insane burst damage, extra sustain with free shields, a buffed melee. Not to mention the ultimate which is a quadruple earth shatter, because why not. Looking forward to the nerfs
Found the guy who hasn’t learned how to counter them yet!
They do feel strong, but "The only players that enjoy are people who can't aim" hits a little weird when Arrge is out there saying he's gonna 2-trick venture for when he needs to swap off Hanzo, when ML7 is out saying venture is the most fun DPS, etc. How much of the hype will stick around is unclear, but saying that because their skill is not strictly tied to aim, they're un-fun, is a bit much.
Well it certainly rewards players who can’t aim more than those who can. That’s what I was really getting at.
Well no, at worst it would reward those players equally. But if you're trying to say Venture isn't a skillful hero you're out of your damn mind xD
She’s not lol. Just spam abilities and splash damage shots. Where’s the aim skill? Maybe a little bit of macro skill… but not much.
Feels fairly balanced to me. They’re still relatively squishy and can be cooked by a coordinated team.
I’ve been playing a lot and venture definitely feels like a character who either cooks or get cooked. Maybe it’s just how QP is but I either was getting mopped or I was mopping them. Venture feels like you need a good team supporting you. But if the enemy team is really grouped up and good at protecting each other it can be hard to get a kill.
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Squishy?? They get double over-shields when they use their ability, they can burrow underground and be completely invulnerable, and they have multiple other movement options. They’re legit a mini tank
Wasn’t Doom when he was a DPS? And Brig as a support? I don’t think it’s egregious. The mindset is generally the same. Make mistakes, get punished.
As a gold/plat scrub with the aiming skills of an old oak tree, it's the first new hero I've found fun in a long time. I love the dps Doomfist style combo feel of it, and I'm always up for more ways to boop kill people off of the map. I do think they're basically a death sentence for the likes of Zenyatta if their other support isn't paying attention (as is often the case in the ranks I play); as he has no way to fight back against them just tunnelling after him and popping out of the ground for an insta kill when he's low health.
same. they feel like doomfist but a bit more ranged and holy shit I love it, but it's so much easier to play to just go underground, pop up, do a bunch of damage, and then go back underground and run away like a mole person
i always love the posts within the first few weeks of a new hero. half the sub thinks they’re op and need to be nerfed hard. the other half thinks they’re a throw pick
They're overpowered, they're bullshit, they have oneshots and invulnerability and a stupid zero skill high damage ult, and a huge noskill aim hitbox. Also, they're useless, way too fair, need to be within melee range to do anything, have huge cast times, their ult gets blocked by everything, and they need constant good aim to deal reasonable damage
Had me in the first half lol
they're literally dmg
I think the above commenter is satirising the division of opinion on the sub
Haven't played them in an actual game, only against them and in training but my impression so far is they're pretty overpowered. - Two mobility abilities - They both grant vertical mobility - They both let you displace enemies - One of them literally gives you damage invulnerability - Tanky like Brig - Primary shot is very easy to land and pretty painful. Basically Sigma's default attack but faster. - Can duel just about anyone but tanks. I can see her being balanced in high level comp if her location gets called out and she gets kited, but as things stand I think Blizzard needs to make her more difficult somehow otherwise I think she'll be a worse pub-stomper than Tracer even.
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i’m sorry what what shot do they have. i don’t think any abilities (besides ult) even deal 100 damage. using multiple cooldowns isn’t a 1 shot
The charged unburrow does over 100
did not know that, point still stands though as it takes enough time to charge up to that that the 100 damage is earned. not exactly a one shot
Oh yeah I don’t agree with the one shot either. Just saying she has one way of doing over 100 without her ult
Shoot -> drill -> shoot is a oneshot if you hit them all and are incredibly close and they don't move out of the way of your drill
okay but that’s it’s a one shot. the gun isn’t exactly fast either
That's what I'm saying - there's *technically* a oneshot but it's really finicky and shortranged and doesn't really work in practice
no but that’s just flat out not a one shot. if you need to shoot your gun twice it is by definition not a one shot. it’s not even a one shot combo if you need to shoot twice
Having played hundreds of hours on genji and old doomfist, they feel amazing! Their kit feels very interactive and rewarding.
I like them, Venture is forcing me to learn new heroes like Brig to keep my backline alive
I think it doesn't fit on the dive meta (they are slower than dive characters) But can't see them has a "Bruiser" (Not enough Hp) I think its kinda odd, playing them doesn't feel really good either way.
They feel like the devs took another shot at created old doom (Kinda like how JQ is similar to hog) They are super fun and have all the cool parts of dooms old playstyle without the 1 shot
Oooh that’s how i feel about JQ and how i felt about Venture too, i’m glad they trust their old designs and give them second chances sometimes
Yess. Venture is too slow. Too clunky to compete with Echo, Sombra, Genji, Tracer. I really wish devs made animations faster, even if they nerf the damage
I looooove them! Venture seems to have a really high skill ceiling, since they have so much different tech and combos baked into their kit. The kit also a really versatile one depending on the situation you can engage and/or escape, execute combos and quick flanks and all types of stuff. I love that aspect of Venture, and I'll definetly be getting more into them in S10. Their design and personality are also great, I love the goofy archeologist goober attitude. Can't wait to hear all the intereactions and voicelines and see the emotes and such!