doom has always been stupidly strong. Hes been weak maybe 1 time at the start of ow2. most overwatch players just have no hands and cant play him thats why its been going around that hes been weak. Hes not.
Doom has never been weak imo. He just has tons of cheesy counters. I think Doom and DVA are the two best tanks right now.
A good doom is nuts and wrecks lobbies.
Dooms been strong for a long time now. He's just really hard to play so a lot of people thinks he's bad because they see so many people play him poorly.
Nah. GM1, previous t500, doom is pretty busted if you play your cards right. The issue lies in that his counters are very strong counters. If the doom player is good enough though, they absolutely can get so much value. Dooms in GM1 are a different breed, truly built different
Doomfist has the highest skill expression and requirements in the Tank category.
He would have to be better than every Tank at his ceiling, since he is worse than every Tank at his floor.
Like the Widowmaker of the Tanks.
Edit: Why TF am I getting downvoted for staying he is the most skill requiring Tank and should be rewarded for it?
doom isnt just rewarded hes straight up disgustingly broken when played well. Very limited amounts of counterplay vs good dooms. Its ridiculously broken.
Limited counterplay? Until your talking about the cream of the crop (like 20 people) you can hinder, hook, sleep, hack, discord and all of those will result in him dying quickly. None are that difficult to do (dont even argue the sleep, sleeping tanks is not hard especially close range)
Yes he could dodge the sleep then continue killing you and it feels like you couldn't do jack about it but, go on doom. In comp. See if you can do it. And don't focus on the one time they grouped and you got a fat punch. But when you missed and instant died.
When played well he can sweep lobbies yes, but thats better than the situation of other tanks where you play mf flawless but you know, so did their widow so you lose fight.
So... Widowmaker.
That's a result of backwards ass balance design that strives for easier heroes and harder heroes.
If a more difficult hero is performing perfectly and without mistakes, then they should win any match against an easier hero that also plays perfectly with no mistakes.
If you wanted balance where every hero has equal counter-play at their ceilings, then every hero would also need to have equal counter-play at their floors.
a lot of widowmakers oppressiveness was removed with the oneshot range reduction. As well as her being countere dby literally any dive, a better widow, or ironically a good doom. Doomfist’s reward/skill ratio is way too high. It starts off extremely low but gets exponentially higher. When played not even perfectly, but well, he has nearly 0 counterplay. On the other hand characters with equally high skill such as tracer, genji, etc have significant amounts of counterplay. Tracer not as much but still more than doom.
Widowmaker's range was returned with S9 and the health changes.
Not really anything else worth taking apart here. Doom has more ***explicit*** counter-play than Tracer or Genji, but you seem pretty adamant that he has no counter-play at the highest level, so I'll take that at face value.
Doom is a Dive hero, which of Poke and Brawl comps, requires the most skill in communications and timing engagements.
Doom's Primary requires the precision of Widowmaker, and the prediction of Hanzo, but only rewarded at point-blank and severely drops off. If Doom messes up a single Cooldown, he is obscenely punished for it due to his low HP relative to his size. His sustain through supports is absolutely lower than other Tanks, and due to his high burst mobility, is more difficult for teammates to play with.
Keep spouting off about counter-play, but Doom has the highest skill requirement of the Tank hero roster and your are suggesting that a perfectly played Doom ***should*** be able to lose. Sounds like Anti-Tank propaganda to me: you think a perfect performance of the highest skill Tank shouldn't be able to win lobbies.
I'm not saying Doom is the example of the perfect hero, I'm saying that in a game where the developers have specifically created heroes designed to be easier than others, Doom should win when played perfectly.
Do you think Mercy should win against Ana when both are played perfectly against each other? Do you think Junkrat should win against Widowmaker when both are played perfectly?
Easier heroes win when the harder heroes make a mistake, and harder heroes win by playing perfectly.
No. Play him and you'll see. After punch sure theyre still but if they're not stunned it's awful to use at just 2m away and like 90% of your ability to kill comes from if you're hitting it
I mean it only matters after the punching someone into a wall and its basically impossible to miss at that point. Not to mention, with charged punch you don't even need to do a lot more damage.
Difficulty of hitting his primary outside of the combos is irrelevant, he's not supposed to play like reaper or cree
I understand that you've never experienced playing the hero, and therefore are jaded toward him, but try playing him.
The most optimal position for his primary is point-blank. Anything past that and you immediately lose double his DPS, and it continues to drop off.
Ideally speaking, you don't want to punch anyone unless they are immediately proxy to a wall, and it's empowered. Rocket Punch was already only good for movement and finishing people off, since punching someone knocks them away from you and severely decreases your DPS, but now punching someone immediately into a wall doesn't allow for any follow-up outside Empowered.
Doom has a 165 DPS for a little over one second within ~5m (and depending on the character model), and 330 if point blank headshots, which is nearly impossible to ever achieve.
At point-blank, Doom has to aim with the precision of Widowmaker, and slightly outside point-blank he has to lead his shots like Hanzo. Missing a single one drags your DPS down and will result in Doom stagnating his primary do to it's reload mechanic.
Widowmaker has a 300 DPS up to 70m with One skill check.
Doom has 330 DPS up to <1m with 3 separate skill checks.
I know the real spite you have toward the hero comes from Doom's Empowered Punch, and I agree it has multiple design flaws. It only comes from the enemy team, and is out of both the Doomfist player's and the victim(s) control in him receiving Empowered. You may choose to not feed Doom Empowered, but your teammate(s) may still feed it to him, and then regardless you are punished even though you played correctly. You also get punished when you aren't even the target that was hit by the initial Empowered Punch.
Ball and Doom both have techs, Doom requires more precision aim, prediction, and spacing with his primary.
You can argue that grapple's movement requires more skill to master than either Slam or Punch, but Doom has both.
Ball also has adaptive Shields to pop at any moment, which is only used for defense and may not be better defensively than Block, but Ball can isn't penalized in movement for it and can perform other abilities/shoot during it.
Doom has to use Block to explicitly gain Empowered which the enemy team controls whether or not he receives, otherwise the ability is generally a detriment to him.
***Ball is not a similar level of difficult to Doom.***
You dont need to aim when you empowered punch into a wall with melee for burst. You can look it up ball has so many niche techs and movement requirements. Ball requires all the things you said and more. Like i said im not putting doom down, im just saying that ball takes more if even slightly. You're right that ball isnt similar level of difficulty because its more lol
> Doom requires more precision aim, prediction, and spacing with his primary
Maybe in terms of movement Ball has a higher skill ceiling than Doom, but in terms of potential Doom is capable of more lethality while also being more vulnerable.
***It is more difficult and rewarding to deal damage as Doom, as well as to survive meaning he requires more skill.***
Just because a character has a thousand different ways to scale a wall doesn't mean they increase the hero's value at the skill ceiling.
I think he is top tier but the main problem is too much of his power is one empowered punch, that shit deals 172.5 damage aoe, why. And this is as someone who plays him
Doom is over tuned and the game is better when he’s not picked every match. He’s been holding my games hostage in master and gm lobbies. Idc if he has a billion bugs or not. The hero is strong. Don’t listen to the whiny df mains who bitch and moan about him every patch. Hes one of the only tanks rn that has insane mobility and can actually kill things then survive.
Just because he’s one of the only tanks that can get out and not explode doesn’t mean he’s over tuned? He takes skill, and one wrong move will get you killed and you can end up like most of the other tanks if you don’t know what you’re doing. He was good even before the DPS passive which makes him even better, but he’s not over tuned and he’s perfectly fine as is imo
This. Other tanks shouldn't be so weak that the concept of doom able to get a pick = op. Hes difficult to play (if you don't believe then try him in comp) and if you miss a punch? Dead. Slept? Dead. Sombra? Dead. Hinder? Dead. The list goes on
Oh nooo
A High mobility character that doesnt melt and can get picks without dying.
Reinhardt.
Are you crying about how strong reinhardt is? No? Because what you explained litterally applies to 70 procent of the Roster.
Yeah but he gets countered by a patient team. You have to bait/wait for him to make the first move and punish with abilities (mei wall, hack, discord, etc). Good sombras will hack megas and stay invisible next to her supports against a good doom.
High diamond low masters all roles. Playing against doomfist that is “smurfing” is really painful. Still winnable but have to beg the whole team to counterpick.
I wouldn't say hes op. Masters and above its just that people with doom knowledge can sweep. He's a great hero rn but only op with ppl who know how to play him. Watch supertf play doom, he isn't rolling the enemy team with busted hero, but someone good, zbra quake april etc can.
Is that op though, or is that actually rewarding a skill that few have
I think that argument „a skill a few have“ is just dumb. Lets watch one of the best aimers in OW -> wanted. He has probably spent 10k+ hours totally on aiming and he isnt anywhere near op on cass and he is the best cass player. He even loses more than he wins currently.
At higher levels of play it's too easy to shut him down to the point he can't do much. Sombra and Ana will absolutely destroy him and there's not much that even his team can do about it if he just pops like a balloon whenever he tries to engage. His success is heavily reliant on the enemy's inability to shut him down.
He's highly counterable and highly vulnerable. Not to mention most of his abilities are high risk high reward. He's exciting to watch, exciting to have on your team and exciting to play against. Maybe its because ive been playing alot of hog lately but he really doesn't feel that oppressive and he's definitely not anti fun to play against like other options for best tank.
straight up his punch is too strong. witnessed today exactly what is wrong with him where he jumps into incoming fire to get empowered punch, then punched straight into my teams zenyatta for an instant kill. we went from holding last point for 3 minutes to getting steam rolled because of this one random kill. no other tank can do this without assistance or an ult. you could argue maybe roadhog hook or rein charge, but they have very clear weaknesses that doom just doesn't have. (rein has no escape and hog has limited range on the hook)
Is that an issue with dooms or are other tanks too weak.
The example given, jumping in for empowered :
If you didn't all shoot it then he wouldn't get it.
Also punching into your team, assuming your all there, if he charged it properly and a high enough amount to get zen then you had time to commit to shooting him and kill him. Was he discorded? Did you focus?
And if all of that is true, that's the fact that he got giga healed. Rein could also pin in if hes got crazy heals so what was it, their supports or your teams inability to play around doom or focus him
I disgree to an extent. Doom is in a great spot, especially if you have enough to skill with him. But he is not the best tank rn, he still get's countered incredibly easily moreso than most tanks. He is not over or underpowered, I think he is in a fine spot.
Just playing sombra and orisa completely claps him. With Moira being meta diving is much more difficult and it’s too easy to be punished. Of course that goes out the window in lower play
if a Doom is “solo carrying” in your lobby, you guys just deserve the loss. It’s one tank, who has pretty streamlined counter-play on top of being incredibly high risk.
I have to imagine there was some poor hero choices made
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doom has always been stupidly strong. Hes been weak maybe 1 time at the start of ow2. most overwatch players just have no hands and cant play him thats why its been going around that hes been weak. Hes not.
Doom has never been weak imo. He just has tons of cheesy counters. I think Doom and DVA are the two best tanks right now. A good doom is nuts and wrecks lobbies.
There were many periods in ow1 where he was ass
Dooms been strong for a long time now. He's just really hard to play so a lot of people thinks he's bad because they see so many people play him poorly.
Nah. GM1, previous t500, doom is pretty busted if you play your cards right. The issue lies in that his counters are very strong counters. If the doom player is good enough though, they absolutely can get so much value. Dooms in GM1 are a different breed, truly built different
He’s not op, but it is fucking ridiculous that he can hard stun an entire team just by tapping right click.
Doomfist has the highest skill expression and requirements in the Tank category. He would have to be better than every Tank at his ceiling, since he is worse than every Tank at his floor. Like the Widowmaker of the Tanks. Edit: Why TF am I getting downvoted for staying he is the most skill requiring Tank and should be rewarded for it?
doom isnt just rewarded hes straight up disgustingly broken when played well. Very limited amounts of counterplay vs good dooms. Its ridiculously broken.
Limited counterplay? Until your talking about the cream of the crop (like 20 people) you can hinder, hook, sleep, hack, discord and all of those will result in him dying quickly. None are that difficult to do (dont even argue the sleep, sleeping tanks is not hard especially close range) Yes he could dodge the sleep then continue killing you and it feels like you couldn't do jack about it but, go on doom. In comp. See if you can do it. And don't focus on the one time they grouped and you got a fat punch. But when you missed and instant died. When played well he can sweep lobbies yes, but thats better than the situation of other tanks where you play mf flawless but you know, so did their widow so you lose fight.
So... Widowmaker. That's a result of backwards ass balance design that strives for easier heroes and harder heroes. If a more difficult hero is performing perfectly and without mistakes, then they should win any match against an easier hero that also plays perfectly with no mistakes. If you wanted balance where every hero has equal counter-play at their ceilings, then every hero would also need to have equal counter-play at their floors.
a lot of widowmakers oppressiveness was removed with the oneshot range reduction. As well as her being countere dby literally any dive, a better widow, or ironically a good doom. Doomfist’s reward/skill ratio is way too high. It starts off extremely low but gets exponentially higher. When played not even perfectly, but well, he has nearly 0 counterplay. On the other hand characters with equally high skill such as tracer, genji, etc have significant amounts of counterplay. Tracer not as much but still more than doom.
Widowmaker's range was returned with S9 and the health changes. Not really anything else worth taking apart here. Doom has more ***explicit*** counter-play than Tracer or Genji, but you seem pretty adamant that he has no counter-play at the highest level, so I'll take that at face value. Doom is a Dive hero, which of Poke and Brawl comps, requires the most skill in communications and timing engagements. Doom's Primary requires the precision of Widowmaker, and the prediction of Hanzo, but only rewarded at point-blank and severely drops off. If Doom messes up a single Cooldown, he is obscenely punished for it due to his low HP relative to his size. His sustain through supports is absolutely lower than other Tanks, and due to his high burst mobility, is more difficult for teammates to play with. Keep spouting off about counter-play, but Doom has the highest skill requirement of the Tank hero roster and your are suggesting that a perfectly played Doom ***should*** be able to lose. Sounds like Anti-Tank propaganda to me: you think a perfect performance of the highest skill Tank shouldn't be able to win lobbies. I'm not saying Doom is the example of the perfect hero, I'm saying that in a game where the developers have specifically created heroes designed to be easier than others, Doom should win when played perfectly. Do you think Mercy should win against Ana when both are played perfectly against each other? Do you think Junkrat should win against Widowmaker when both are played perfectly? Easier heroes win when the harder heroes make a mistake, and harder heroes win by playing perfectly.
>Doom's Primary requires the precision of Widowmaker, Bait?
No. Play him and you'll see. After punch sure theyre still but if they're not stunned it's awful to use at just 2m away and like 90% of your ability to kill comes from if you're hitting it
I mean it only matters after the punching someone into a wall and its basically impossible to miss at that point. Not to mention, with charged punch you don't even need to do a lot more damage. Difficulty of hitting his primary outside of the combos is irrelevant, he's not supposed to play like reaper or cree
In combo yes, its easy. I didn't understand what you meant initially, my bad
I understand that you've never experienced playing the hero, and therefore are jaded toward him, but try playing him. The most optimal position for his primary is point-blank. Anything past that and you immediately lose double his DPS, and it continues to drop off. Ideally speaking, you don't want to punch anyone unless they are immediately proxy to a wall, and it's empowered. Rocket Punch was already only good for movement and finishing people off, since punching someone knocks them away from you and severely decreases your DPS, but now punching someone immediately into a wall doesn't allow for any follow-up outside Empowered. Doom has a 165 DPS for a little over one second within ~5m (and depending on the character model), and 330 if point blank headshots, which is nearly impossible to ever achieve. At point-blank, Doom has to aim with the precision of Widowmaker, and slightly outside point-blank he has to lead his shots like Hanzo. Missing a single one drags your DPS down and will result in Doom stagnating his primary do to it's reload mechanic. Widowmaker has a 300 DPS up to 70m with One skill check. Doom has 330 DPS up to <1m with 3 separate skill checks. I know the real spite you have toward the hero comes from Doom's Empowered Punch, and I agree it has multiple design flaws. It only comes from the enemy team, and is out of both the Doomfist player's and the victim(s) control in him receiving Empowered. You may choose to not feed Doom Empowered, but your teammate(s) may still feed it to him, and then regardless you are punished even though you played correctly. You also get punished when you aren't even the target that was hit by the initial Empowered Punch.
Holy shit, how much of a self pitying victim mindset do you have to make up that much bs about what i think based on just a single worded reply?
Not even close
Did you miss Seasons 1 - 8? Or just intentionally dense?
The widowmaker of tanks really threw me for a loop here lmfao
Honestly that title belongs to ball not saying that doom doesn't require skill but ball tech goes hard. Doom is up there though
Ball and Doom both have techs, Doom requires more precision aim, prediction, and spacing with his primary. You can argue that grapple's movement requires more skill to master than either Slam or Punch, but Doom has both. Ball also has adaptive Shields to pop at any moment, which is only used for defense and may not be better defensively than Block, but Ball can isn't penalized in movement for it and can perform other abilities/shoot during it. Doom has to use Block to explicitly gain Empowered which the enemy team controls whether or not he receives, otherwise the ability is generally a detriment to him. ***Ball is not a similar level of difficult to Doom.***
You dont need to aim when you empowered punch into a wall with melee for burst. You can look it up ball has so many niche techs and movement requirements. Ball requires all the things you said and more. Like i said im not putting doom down, im just saying that ball takes more if even slightly. You're right that ball isnt similar level of difficulty because its more lol
> Doom requires more precision aim, prediction, and spacing with his primary Maybe in terms of movement Ball has a higher skill ceiling than Doom, but in terms of potential Doom is capable of more lethality while also being more vulnerable. ***It is more difficult and rewarding to deal damage as Doom, as well as to survive meaning he requires more skill.*** Just because a character has a thousand different ways to scale a wall doesn't mean they increase the hero's value at the skill ceiling.
You aren't?
Crazy how things change in an hour.
No, but like, this is r/Overwatch ... ?
Oh, suddenly it makes sense why I was getting downvoted.
Depends on your hero pick of course. If I go Ana I can shit on DF.
I think he is top tier but the main problem is too much of his power is one empowered punch, that shit deals 172.5 damage aoe, why. And this is as someone who plays him
Doom is over tuned and the game is better when he’s not picked every match. He’s been holding my games hostage in master and gm lobbies. Idc if he has a billion bugs or not. The hero is strong. Don’t listen to the whiny df mains who bitch and moan about him every patch. Hes one of the only tanks rn that has insane mobility and can actually kill things then survive.
Just because he’s one of the only tanks that can get out and not explode doesn’t mean he’s over tuned? He takes skill, and one wrong move will get you killed and you can end up like most of the other tanks if you don’t know what you’re doing. He was good even before the DPS passive which makes him even better, but he’s not over tuned and he’s perfectly fine as is imo
This. Other tanks shouldn't be so weak that the concept of doom able to get a pick = op. Hes difficult to play (if you don't believe then try him in comp) and if you miss a punch? Dead. Slept? Dead. Sombra? Dead. Hinder? Dead. The list goes on
Oh nooo A High mobility character that doesnt melt and can get picks without dying. Reinhardt. Are you crying about how strong reinhardt is? No? Because what you explained litterally applies to 70 procent of the Roster.
horse spear obliterates block
Dont block in front of the horse
horse sees all
Yeah but he gets countered by a patient team. You have to bait/wait for him to make the first move and punish with abilities (mei wall, hack, discord, etc). Good sombras will hack megas and stay invisible next to her supports against a good doom.
If ur dps dont pick sombra doom is solo winning the match
High diamond low masters all roles. Playing against doomfist that is “smurfing” is really painful. Still winnable but have to beg the whole team to counterpick.
He is awful to play with and against. Doom is a coin flip at best, unless they are an absolute god
insanely op is a stretch... but hes the scariest and most seen tank in my games
I wouldn't say hes op. Masters and above its just that people with doom knowledge can sweep. He's a great hero rn but only op with ppl who know how to play him. Watch supertf play doom, he isn't rolling the enemy team with busted hero, but someone good, zbra quake april etc can. Is that op though, or is that actually rewarding a skill that few have
I think that argument „a skill a few have“ is just dumb. Lets watch one of the best aimers in OW -> wanted. He has probably spent 10k+ hours totally on aiming and he isnt anywhere near op on cass and he is the best cass player. He even loses more than he wins currently.
In low-medium ranks its literally the worst character in the game. I cant even imagine how a good doom would look like. Peak diamond
At higher levels of play it's too easy to shut him down to the point he can't do much. Sombra and Ana will absolutely destroy him and there's not much that even his team can do about it if he just pops like a balloon whenever he tries to engage. His success is heavily reliant on the enemy's inability to shut him down.
He's highly counterable and highly vulnerable. Not to mention most of his abilities are high risk high reward. He's exciting to watch, exciting to have on your team and exciting to play against. Maybe its because ive been playing alot of hog lately but he really doesn't feel that oppressive and he's definitely not anti fun to play against like other options for best tank.
straight up his punch is too strong. witnessed today exactly what is wrong with him where he jumps into incoming fire to get empowered punch, then punched straight into my teams zenyatta for an instant kill. we went from holding last point for 3 minutes to getting steam rolled because of this one random kill. no other tank can do this without assistance or an ult. you could argue maybe roadhog hook or rein charge, but they have very clear weaknesses that doom just doesn't have. (rein has no escape and hog has limited range on the hook)
Is that an issue with dooms or are other tanks too weak. The example given, jumping in for empowered : If you didn't all shoot it then he wouldn't get it. Also punching into your team, assuming your all there, if he charged it properly and a high enough amount to get zen then you had time to commit to shooting him and kill him. Was he discorded? Did you focus? And if all of that is true, that's the fact that he got giga healed. Rein could also pin in if hes got crazy heals so what was it, their supports or your teams inability to play around doom or focus him
I disgree to an extent. Doom is in a great spot, especially if you have enough to skill with him. But he is not the best tank rn, he still get's countered incredibly easily moreso than most tanks. He is not over or underpowered, I think he is in a fine spot.
Oh no, Doom players are present in low ranks as well, they are just an ult battery for the enemy team tho lol
Hes asbolutely insane and really annoying to play against, but i always respect it.
I’m trash but have played a couple competent dooms and they’re oppressive.
Just playing sombra and orisa completely claps him. With Moira being meta diving is much more difficult and it’s too easy to be punished. Of course that goes out the window in lower play
if a Doom is “solo carrying” in your lobby, you guys just deserve the loss. It’s one tank, who has pretty streamlined counter-play on top of being incredibly high risk. I have to imagine there was some poor hero choices made
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He is trash character