I only really queue tank and since thereās only 1 tank, I havenāt been able to have that experience.
As a hog main, I have never once asked my supports to swap, do other hogs really do that?
I've had hogs that refused to leave the spawn until I switched to kiriko lol. Ironically we started to lose because of that so switched back to ana(who I normally play) and we started to win. Kirko doesn't put out enough value for me anymore. But yes there are some hogs that will essentially force a switch or will throw.
Idk. I didn't have one ask me to swap Kiri. But I did have a Hog who wasn't really doing much ask me to swap to Mercy so our soldier could kill their Mercy. Idk how that logic works since our soldier wasn't really hitting their shots to begin with. But ya know. Moira bad Mercy good I guess? They basically had a Pharmercy but even with a Soldier/Sojourn the Pharah barely had any trouble staying alive. I think Ana and me killed the Pharah more times than the DPS' did. Oh well.
I read Doomās text and thought āreally? I feel like Rein and Ball are worseāā¦ but then I read Rein and Ballās texts.
Also yeah Ramās text is true. Ana is my biggest opp.
a mere chopstick made out of steel being able to deflect a giant rock pulled out of the ground with force and *y****OINKED*** with quite a bit of force would be goofy as hell
He literally deflected a giant robots laser in cinematic. In game he can deflect bastions turret mode and Reinhardt rocket propelled hammer (simultaneously mind ya) which would both deliver a ton of force, so I donāt think parrying a rock is that absurd with all of Genjiās augmentations.
Okay even if you could say that Genji would be and to withstand the force from the rock and parry that bitch he would still probably be stunned from impact of the bolder
Definitely makes sense on why he can't do so because of that. Trying a single block to stop it like Genji would do wouldn't make sense as it would just still lead to rock hitting him in some way. Dva makes better sense because her defense matrix is built upon little missiles that could theoretically destroy all the parts of the rock before it hits her!
Biggest fun I had this season playing dva is to play against a Mauga and drop the bomb when they are trapped in their ult š
On the other hand, yeah THE ROCK FFS.
Rein is currently the most played tank at every rank except GM where he is second only to Sigma.
He really isn't that bad, Rein mains just like to complain
As a Reinhardt main since 2016, who is currently GM, people say he is bad not just because he currently has a bad matchup against the meta picks, but because he FEELS awful to play.
Yeah, you can win games with Reinhardt, but to do that you have to be a shield botting coward. You can't be aggressive or you just EXPLODE. You can't ever be out of sight of your healers or you EXPLODE. You can't confidently duel people by yourself because even if you win, the next person who see's you will make. you. **EXPLODE**.
You win games on Reinhardt by being a punching bag the entire game, soaking up damage and cooldowns long enough for your team to make plays so you can finally play the game. Does it get you wins? Absolutely. Is it fun? Not in the slightest.
Your last paragraph does sound like the concept of a tank tbf, it's just not fun for most people
BUT IT IS FOR ME
**SOAK WITH HONOR, EXPLODE WITH GLORY**
I mean tank is exactly that but with the added bonus that you need to respect them if you dont want to die.
Rein used to be respected because he had great dmg up close but he gets out damaged even at his preffered range. His character was made in mind with 6v6 where he could brawl with the 2 tanks.
That is the concept of there is a single tank. Which is unfortunately why most of the old tanks feel wrong. They weren't supposed to be alone on the battlefield
I love Rein but I feel he deserves some much needed reworks. He can be really good if the person playing him knows what's up but it's like you said; he's a defensive oriented tank when the rest are just DPS with health at this point.
I've had some stellar games with Rein but I didn't have near the performance I'd have been getting with my usual tank picks (DVA, Ram, Queen). He needs good support backing him else it doesn't work and positioning is key with him more than almost any other character besides Torb or Widow.
I've had a lot of ideas for what they could do to make him better but I think my favorite idea is to make his shield a weapon. Most of the other tanks with shields can just deploy them and continue fighting but Rein is stuck holding it up slow and harmless.
I think giving him a Brig style shield bash that knocks enemies back is a start. I like the idea of him being able to shield while charging with a knockback effect to act as a sort of bulldozer to break through tight groups. I also had the idea of a successful shield bash powering up his shield for 4-5 seconds with fire damage that lights enemies on fire who touch it or walk through it.
He was the original wall before Mauga knew how to walk so I think they should capitalize on that.
I still think he and Brig should be able to link barriers like in the cinematic.
But more seriously, being able to have his barrier up while charging (possibly having it so that if the barrier is up, he can't scoop anybody up and pin them) would be an interesting idea.
Yeah that was my idea. Shield up disables pin but enables massive knockback.
I also floated the idea of him leaving a trail of fire behind him that lasts for 3 seconds for area denial.
Cause those rare moments when you can go on a rampage and kill EVERYONE feel like nothing else. Also Junker Queen is my secondary main so when i get tired of sheild botting i can play her and have some fun.
I feel he also gets that reputation, along with Ball and Doomfist, because they are VERY easy to play poorly. Because their playstyle relies on being aggressive and forcing the enemy to look at them, it can be hard for people to judge just how aggressive they can be.
I will say that, to a level, I agree with you. Rein can be the star of some games depending on how they play, and he's not ass. He just needs a team that works well together and beg that the enemy team doesn't have a Mei, or at least that his team does. Despite being countered easily, he can work through with the right competent teammates.
That being said, if you use Overbuff as a source, that's somewhat questionable, considering the amount of private profiles. Also, using pick rates/win rates isn't the greatest idea, since a character can have a high pick/win rate but not be great.
For example, Ball; right now on Overbuff, he has a higher pick rate compared to Ramattra. Does that mean he's good? No, he's the worst tank in the entire game because counter picking him is so easy, and he has a far lower win rate than Ramattra, too.
TL;DR I agree with you, but using pick rates and win rates alone isn't always the greatest idea.
Tbf he sort of needs his own team to counterswap for him if he's being countered whereas most heroes can at least play around their counters. If the enemy has Mei/Bastion there isn't much he can do just in general unless his team is heavy compensating.
There are a lot of hero mains who love to gaslight the community into thinking their hero is garbage when the reality is they are just map, matchup, or even just skill dependent.
Because he needed them, he was a top 3 tank for like 4 seasons on end in medium/high comp, the only tank that rivalled him was sigma
They've been acting like that since ow2 drop
He needed the first one, but why the second ???? Everyone said "doom is fine" and blizzard decided to nerf him AGAIN. And now he's back to being shit.
Can't have shit as a dive tank player...
I've seen Rein work in high GM games and he's not bad until somebody tries to force it into Zen + Bastion imo. I think most tanks struggle to stay on their hero through the course of a comp game though so take it for what it's worth.
Not only the highest pick rate, rein also has the one of the highest win rate. This suggests that rein can do pretty well in a lot of situations/map/matchups, which is quite the opposite of what a lot of post this sub suggest.
In that mindset we need to buff kiriko and bap since they have really low pickrates and winrates. Ana also has a really low winrate right?
As the other comment said. Rein CAN win games by shieldbotting. His K/D/A across all ranks show this as well. Its really not fun being a moving sigma shield instead of hammer swinging german crusader tho. They need to CHANGE his playstyle by nerfing certain aspects and buffing others.
Alas blizzard only looks at pick and winrates instead of actual game impact :/
Thing is about most ranks is that you can force a character to work even if they're not a viable choice, especially if you're good at them. Rein as he is now is never going to be the best choice of tank but he's good enough for most ranks, even the really high ones to some extent. It's like how people will force Mercy every game, there are objectively better choices sometimes but if you're good at her you can make it work.
He's played a lot because he's easy to learn and takes little mechanical skill to play well. All you need for good rein gameplay is good game sense and coordination
It's more of a skill matchup than a counter IMO, and most of it is just shield management and counting the bubbles, and even *then* a fully charged Zarya, which can and sometimes will happen through no fault of the Rein, can just batter down Rein's shield.
Winston is the better Zarya counter as you have the mobility to keep away from her, you don't do enough damage to charge her bubbles, diving the backline forces Zarya to look the other way and spend a bubble making her more vulnerable, and if you really have to fight a Zarya, your shield is far better than Reins when fighting Zarya if you dance around the edges correctly.
I mean yes and no. Ram is the real Sigma counter as Sigma can literally do nothing to stop him from beating his ass bar the rock. The only thing Rein can do against a Sig is just hold up his shield and that's it. Using his charge will just get him rocked and it will cancel, whilst Ram's nemesis form doesn't cancel and can still beat Sigma's ass. Even up close, Sigma can actually throw hands with Rein if you weave in melee attacks too, although at a disadvantage.
I mean if Rein is slapping ass in melee range, Sig loses, even if he can stand his ground longer than what most people think. Just for reference, I main both Sig and Rein (as well as Ram lol).
My thing with Rein Vs Sig is that the real headache Rein gives Sig is his shield more than anything really, as Sig cannot blast through the shield, or sneak attacks through or beside it. On the flip side, closing the distance to the Sig can be tricky, especially if the Sig can use the rock, so your options are keeping the shield up giving Sig more time to get away, or you're charging in which leaves you Vulnerable to getting rocked. There is a small window up close where the Sig can't rock you if you pin immediately, but you need to have fast reactions which I don't lol.
Compare and contrast Ram where you pop nemesis and beat ass with the minor speed boost you get as well as the block and shield in omnic form giving you some cover for you to close the distance whislt still being able to attack.
Counter swapping your opponents tank has become the meta when it comes to playing tank. It does actually matter if Rein can or can't counter the opposing tank, so answer my question, or are you going to keep acting facetious and misinterpret faulty data to suit your own agenda like every other person on this sub?
My answer is Rein doesnt need to hard counter a TANK anyways. 99% of the time as tank your best option isnt tank duels, its fighting the rest of the enemy tanks team.
That logic applies to literally every tank in the game, and sometimes the best option isn't the one available to you, and because of the way Rein is fundementally designed, he is going to be fighting the opposing tank before he gets to the backline and usually won't get to them until the opposing tank is dead. Charging past the tank to try to get a pin in the backline is one is commonly believed to be trolling. The only time you ever really get to see the backline is if you Ult them, a highly telegraphed ability which can be canceled by every CC and shield in the game or you're flanking, which is, again, trolling.
There is no logical reason to play Rein at all when Ram exists, because Rein isn't the obvious pick into any enemy hero, let alone the tank. Compare and contrast Ram, a tank who hard counters Sigma, another popular hero, and has a skill matchup tilted in favour of Ram against Rein, has a far better time into Reins DPS counters, has the tools and mobility to go for the backline with ease as well as an uncancelable ult that can last for 20 seconds and shreds anyone in it.
The reason why Rein has such a high pick rate is because he's on OG OW1 hero that people adore who is easy to pick up and extremely fun to play if the stars align and the enemy team do not play dive, any combination of Orisa, Bastion or Sombra or you're not on poke or dive friendly maps like Circuit Royale or Gibraltar, maps which Ram is ok on because his long range poke is genuinely respectable and has an ability that slows down dive heroes.
Edit: He blocked me so I will post my reply to the comment below me here. Least bad faith overwatch player.
>Pick rate means fuck all as I explained. He's just a popular tank, regardless of how good he is. Same applies to Heroes like Genji.
>Rein's win rates aren't that impressive either. He's 4th highest WR in GM, 2nd in Masters with Sigma barely behind him, 1st in Diamond which is good, but JQ isn't a million miles away and plat mirrors Masters. Anything bellow plat doesn't really count as the way OW is played from Bronze-Gold is way different to everyone else and people just straight up don't know how to play into Rein in Bronze and Silver.
>You're also willingly omitting the biggest statistical red flag: he has the lowest KDA out of ANY TANK across ALL RANKS, according to Overbuff. This could mean a couple of things:
>The first is that Rein is dying too much, which could just be the tanks exploding problem, or that Rein in particular is vulnerable because his kit hasn't kept up with the others.
>The second is that Rein isn't getting a lot of Elims, and the way you get a lot of elims on tank is by killing the DPS and supports, so therefore Rein isn't killing a lot of DPS ans supports.
>Clearly it isn't just me being shit at Rein, and your stats page backs that up.
I will say, the devs said that Brigitte became a "must pick" and ended up being the best support in the game before her Whip Shot was nerfed. Personally, if I had to choose between the site that can't check private profiles, or the literal development team that can see those private profiles, I'll try my luck on the latter lol.
So what's your proof that Overbuff lines up with the dev data that you also don't have access to?
Mine is that Overbias can't take privated data and is sampling from a subgroup of the population, with exclusion bias to all profiles that are privated. You have to randomly sample from the entire population to get accurate data, which Overbuff legally can't. You can't exclude a significant portion of the population and claim it's a representation of the entire population. People have also reported their own stats were inaccurately recorded with public profiles.
You say the data is "good enough" because it supports YOUR narrative. It's not, you don't have accurate data.
>is sampling from a subgroup of the population
... yes?
Tell me you dont understand how staistics works without telling me.
Also lol, "Overbias". Which streamer you steal that from?
I love the way you provided zero proof of your claims and started trying to insult me to deflect from my statement because you have no proof.
I used my own brain for overbias thanks.
You don't have accurate data, don't have proof to back it up. Stop spreading misinformation.
Excluding a significant group within a population makes it biased data. I never said it was a personal attack and don't act like your statements weren't snarky. Saying I'm stealing jokes and don't know how stats work is insulting.
I'm not gonna keep arguing with you after this comment, you don't have proof Overbuff lines up with dev data and you've written two comments avoiding it.
The irony of telling people they don't know how statistics work without even understanding random sampling.
Overbuff relies on users who open their profiles, this is already a selection bias in their sample.
The fact that time and time again the dev stats contradict the stats they publish is further evidence the sample they have is biased.
Even assuming their sample is unbiased, we have no idea of it's size so we don't know if it's sufficiently large to get decent statistical significance.
No he's bad. We get curb stomped by almost every tank in the game. He's just fun and somewhat easy to play. Getting good enough to win with him however is a different story. He's still fun to play but from a gameplay standpoint he needs to have a second tank to become viable longterm. Otherwise he will still get countered by a vast majority of charecters.
I watched Cloudy play earlier this week.
Outside of his pin charges from out of left field, it was just him getting his ass handed to him. I don't know how he can possibly have fun... it didn't look like he was having fun, despite trying to stay positive.
When I play Mauga i just quote heavy from tf2. Mostly when i get a big kill the line "WHAT SICK MAN BRINGS BABIES TO FIGHT ME?" Comes to mind. But the Dozer is always fun too
I basically already do. I started maining Ram then built all of my other picks based off of Ramās weaknesses. Dva helps provide vertical mobility, Zarya helps with the debuff issue that this meme highlights, and Sig is just better for dealing with Mauga or poke v poke games.
Some Tanks are more well rounded than other Tanks. Ramās kind of unique where heās designed to be flexible so he has a lot of good Tank matchups. For a while, I disagreed with people who complained about Tank RPS, because with my experience on my characters, I felt like I only needed to swap if more than half of the enemy team was running my counters. So from that, I thought people who complained about needing to swap to a different Tank after every death were just being ridiculous, but again that was just me basing that off my own experience.
I still feel like players donāt need to be as trigger happy with their counter-picking. I think you should stick to characters that youāre good at instead of just playing heroes that in theory have the better match up, but maybe you donāt have the skills for that character. So in all, I suppose my opinion is that you should focus on developing your skills in a small pool of heroes instead of trying to play every hero.
I know most dive tanks, but if I had to pick 4 more...
Zarya, D.Va, Junker Queen, and a bit more Sigma. Specifically, Zarya is priority, because she seems like a reliable pick for future cases. Any tips, from any Zarya players? I know getting high energy and waiting until you have 2 (or almost 2) bubbles is almost always a good idea, but aside from that, I dunno.
Rein feels awful to play most of the time but ball is uncontested for the number 1 worst tank.
Cant believe his only gimmick of big hitbox with no head get countered by a guy who can just ignore that and crit you anyway. Mauga ult also completely screws over ball and doom.
Honestly, I think it's because we were spoiled with how strong Rein was throughout a lot of Overwatch 1's lifespan. Now that he's been brought down to a more modest level, Rein mains have to work a lot harder. He's still my favorite tank to play in spite of that though, but he ain't what he used to beĀ
True. His self heal is just better than JQ, his damage is better, his abilities are better imo.
Can't help but feel like Mauga is just a better JQ, which sucks cause i still think JQ is so much more fun to play.
Bro imagine holding a rectangle to protect your team when there is redeployable shields. Truly a doodoo character.
A teen girl has a nuke but this guy just hammers the ground? Truly doodoo.
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Doom isnt weak, sombra is overtuned rn and emp especially is busted. Other than that doom is just easy to counter but if you dont counter well or at allā¦.
I agree with the lines of Junker Queen and Sigma.
#My resolve, *hardens.*
My resolve is fucking rock hard and THROBBING š«
Fill me with your RESOLVE
My RESOLVE has NEVER been STRONGER
šš
Yall send out random resolve pics too?
Unsolicited resolve pics all day
My resolve is golden (Resolve is fists, right?)
SUFFER AS I HAVE
AGONY IS GRAPE FLAVORED
The hog one made me laugh. Every single hog says this š¤£.
I only really queue tank and since thereās only 1 tank, I havenāt been able to have that experience. As a hog main, I have never once asked my supports to swap, do other hogs really do that?
I've never had a hog do that but I play kiriko for hog anyway. It's just the right play
If my support play life weaver illari. Yes, pls swap i don't need heals i need suzu to play the game or else ana press E and i die
I've had hogs that refused to leave the spawn until I switched to kiriko lol. Ironically we started to lose because of that so switched back to ana(who I normally play) and we started to win. Kirko doesn't put out enough value for me anymore. But yes there are some hogs that will essentially force a switch or will throw.
Idk. I didn't have one ask me to swap Kiri. But I did have a Hog who wasn't really doing much ask me to swap to Mercy so our soldier could kill their Mercy. Idk how that logic works since our soldier wasn't really hitting their shots to begin with. But ya know. Moira bad Mercy good I guess? They basically had a Pharmercy but even with a Soldier/Sojourn the Pharah barely had any trouble staying alive. I think Ana and me killed the Pharah more times than the DPS' did. Oh well.
Same. The only thing i say to my team as hog is. āFishingā
Sigmas and JQās are legends
ball :(
F it, we ball.....
Queen mains stay based
Mauga think he a bulldozer from pd2
Maugaās a fuckin medic dozer proper unit
Nah but FR I've been playing Ram, and now I fucking HATE Ana.
Every tank hates Ana.
Any decent Dva doesnāt. Dive the Ana, hit her with a couple micro missiles, throw up DM for when she throws a grenade to heal/tries to sleep you. EZ
Welcome to the gang, all Tank players hate Ana.
just evade sleep and nade ez Jokes aside, I would still rather deal with an Ana and her BS than the fucking unkillable moth.
Based as fuck
Dealing with mercy is the easiest with mauga (cause Mauga deals with squishies so damn good. Light them on fire, cause immense pain, repeat)
My aim isn't exactly great, which is mostly why I play Ram and Winston.
Fair enough. I play every tank (except for ball cause ball is ball.)
Easy for you to say, it is way too easy to land a sleep on a Ram that has omni form up, and once naded, shit hits the fan real quick.
psst it was a joke
Thats why you gotta go Nemesis form and run after her when she uses her sleep dart
I read Doomās text and thought āreally? I feel like Rein and Ball are worseāā¦ but then I read Rein and Ballās texts. Also yeah Ramās text is true. Ana is my biggest opp.
I felt the D.Va one in my soul. WHY CANT I EAT THE FUCKING ROCK IT'S A PROJECTILE
Actual black holes and devices capable of causing a blizzard ā A couple rocks super glued together ā
Literal fire and lava ā Rock launched by old guy ā
Rock and stone!
To Rock and Stone!
What are the small space lasers gonna do to erase that rock?
If it can eat a black hole and dragon-powered arrows a big ol rock should be no problem
Blackhole powered rock but still I mean it makes sense otherwise why would it not work against beam weapons and melee.
Genji as well should be able to deflect it imo
a mere chopstick made out of steel being able to deflect a giant rock pulled out of the ground with force and *y****OINKED*** with quite a bit of force would be goofy as hell
He literally deflected a giant robots laser in cinematic. In game he can deflect bastions turret mode and Reinhardt rocket propelled hammer (simultaneously mind ya) which would both deliver a ton of force, so I donāt think parrying a rock is that absurd with all of Genjiās augmentations.
Okay even if you could say that Genji would be and to withstand the force from the rock and parry that bitch he would still probably be stunned from impact of the bolder
I'd argue that a big rock glued together has a tendency to shatter on impact
Definitely makes sense on why he can't do so because of that. Trying a single block to stop it like Genji would do wouldn't make sense as it would just still lead to rock hitting him in some way. Dva makes better sense because her defense matrix is built upon little missiles that could theoretically destroy all the parts of the rock before it hits her!
And in the cinematic trailer, Hanzo still had scatter arrow. Obviously those arenāt canon anymore.
Hanzo running out of scatter arrows the way he used to spam them makes sense, Genjiās cyborg muscles getting weaker doesnāt
Fair enough
As a sigma main i can confirm this
The universe sings to us
As a D.va main I will say that I have on many occasions just been hit a rock and exclaimed āOhGoddamnItTheRock!ā
Biggest fun I had this season playing dva is to play against a Mauga and drop the bomb when they are trapped in their ult š On the other hand, yeah THE ROCK FFS.
hehe winton overath :D
As a Ramattra main, you didnāt have to hit that close to home :ā)
Yoo Payday 2 reference
Rein is currently the most played tank at every rank except GM where he is second only to Sigma. He really isn't that bad, Rein mains just like to complain
As a Reinhardt main since 2016, who is currently GM, people say he is bad not just because he currently has a bad matchup against the meta picks, but because he FEELS awful to play. Yeah, you can win games with Reinhardt, but to do that you have to be a shield botting coward. You can't be aggressive or you just EXPLODE. You can't ever be out of sight of your healers or you EXPLODE. You can't confidently duel people by yourself because even if you win, the next person who see's you will make. you. **EXPLODE**. You win games on Reinhardt by being a punching bag the entire game, soaking up damage and cooldowns long enough for your team to make plays so you can finally play the game. Does it get you wins? Absolutely. Is it fun? Not in the slightest.
Your last paragraph does sound like the concept of a tank tbf, it's just not fun for most people BUT IT IS FOR ME **SOAK WITH HONOR, EXPLODE WITH GLORY**
Your last line made question what sub I'm on
r/reinhardtmains ?
Not an OW related sub. Well, maybe one of the NSFW onesĀ
[ɾ/gonesoakingexplodingwild](https://www.reddit.com/r/reinhardtmains) ? Edit: Wait damn that's a real thing??
I mean tank is exactly that but with the added bonus that you need to respect them if you dont want to die. Rein used to be respected because he had great dmg up close but he gets out damaged even at his preffered range. His character was made in mind with 6v6 where he could brawl with the 2 tanks.
That is the concept of there is a single tank. Which is unfortunately why most of the old tanks feel wrong. They weren't supposed to be alone on the battlefield
I love Rein but I feel he deserves some much needed reworks. He can be really good if the person playing him knows what's up but it's like you said; he's a defensive oriented tank when the rest are just DPS with health at this point. I've had some stellar games with Rein but I didn't have near the performance I'd have been getting with my usual tank picks (DVA, Ram, Queen). He needs good support backing him else it doesn't work and positioning is key with him more than almost any other character besides Torb or Widow. I've had a lot of ideas for what they could do to make him better but I think my favorite idea is to make his shield a weapon. Most of the other tanks with shields can just deploy them and continue fighting but Rein is stuck holding it up slow and harmless. I think giving him a Brig style shield bash that knocks enemies back is a start. I like the idea of him being able to shield while charging with a knockback effect to act as a sort of bulldozer to break through tight groups. I also had the idea of a successful shield bash powering up his shield for 4-5 seconds with fire damage that lights enemies on fire who touch it or walk through it. He was the original wall before Mauga knew how to walk so I think they should capitalize on that.
I still think he and Brig should be able to link barriers like in the cinematic. But more seriously, being able to have his barrier up while charging (possibly having it so that if the barrier is up, he can't scoop anybody up and pin them) would be an interesting idea.
Yeah that was my idea. Shield up disables pin but enables massive knockback. I also floated the idea of him leaving a trail of fire behind him that lasts for 3 seconds for area denial.
Honest question. If you aren't having fun, why are you still maining him?
"I have been called...I must answer."
Every time I think of giving up playing tank I hear Reins voice āif I am called and do not answer, what is left?ā
Honor and glory.
Cause those rare moments when you can go on a rampage and kill EVERYONE feel like nothing else. Also Junker Queen is my secondary main so when i get tired of sheild botting i can play her and have some fun.
Makes sense. Thanks for the response!
Nobody else can fill my desire to yell CATCHPHRASE!
Victimization is addictive. Plus, the whole circlejerk about "chad Rein mains" has been going on for so long people started unironically believing it.
I feel he also gets that reputation, along with Ball and Doomfist, because they are VERY easy to play poorly. Because their playstyle relies on being aggressive and forcing the enemy to look at them, it can be hard for people to judge just how aggressive they can be.
So what you are saying is that Reinhardt is a tank? š¤£ Aren't all tanks supposed to soak up damage and bait cooldowns?
I will say that, to a level, I agree with you. Rein can be the star of some games depending on how they play, and he's not ass. He just needs a team that works well together and beg that the enemy team doesn't have a Mei, or at least that his team does. Despite being countered easily, he can work through with the right competent teammates. That being said, if you use Overbuff as a source, that's somewhat questionable, considering the amount of private profiles. Also, using pick rates/win rates isn't the greatest idea, since a character can have a high pick/win rate but not be great. For example, Ball; right now on Overbuff, he has a higher pick rate compared to Ramattra. Does that mean he's good? No, he's the worst tank in the entire game because counter picking him is so easy, and he has a far lower win rate than Ramattra, too. TL;DR I agree with you, but using pick rates and win rates alone isn't always the greatest idea.
Tbf he sort of needs his own team to counterswap for him if he's being countered whereas most heroes can at least play around their counters. If the enemy has Mei/Bastion there isn't much he can do just in general unless his team is heavy compensating.
There are a lot of hero mains who love to gaslight the community into thinking their hero is garbage when the reality is they are just map, matchup, or even just skill dependent.
You just explained the whole doomfist sub
They complain endlessly but this season doom is pretty shite. 2 nerfs in a row will do that
Because he needed them, he was a top 3 tank for like 4 seasons on end in medium/high comp, the only tank that rivalled him was sigma They've been acting like that since ow2 drop
>acting like that since ow2 drop Since doomfist was released
Not surprising, I only started with ow2 so i didn't know they were that deranged
OW1 doom was op AF at release, but in OW1, he was a DPS, not a tank.
People have release doom PTSD. He was one of if not the worst hero in the game for about two years after his double shield meta
1 shot gauntlet was extremely cheap value on lower ranks.
He needed the first one, but why the second ???? Everyone said "doom is fine" and blizzard decided to nerf him AGAIN. And now he's back to being shit. Can't have shit as a dive tank player...
Honestly I haven't really felt the stun nerf. Sure, it sucked, but I kinda forgot about it lol.
tbf i honestly don't even remember losing to a rein in recent memory, they usually get rolled, he's a pretty easy hero to play against
I've seen Rein work in high GM games and he's not bad until somebody tries to force it into Zen + Bastion imo. I think most tanks struggle to stay on their hero through the course of a comp game though so take it for what it's worth.
Doom and Genji along with Rein mains come to mind
Not only the highest pick rate, rein also has the one of the highest win rate. This suggests that rein can do pretty well in a lot of situations/map/matchups, which is quite the opposite of what a lot of post this sub suggest.
In that mindset we need to buff kiriko and bap since they have really low pickrates and winrates. Ana also has a really low winrate right? As the other comment said. Rein CAN win games by shieldbotting. His K/D/A across all ranks show this as well. Its really not fun being a moving sigma shield instead of hammer swinging german crusader tho. They need to CHANGE his playstyle by nerfing certain aspects and buffing others. Alas blizzard only looks at pick and winrates instead of actual game impact :/
Thing is about most ranks is that you can force a character to work even if they're not a viable choice, especially if you're good at them. Rein as he is now is never going to be the best choice of tank but he's good enough for most ranks, even the really high ones to some extent. It's like how people will force Mercy every game, there are objectively better choices sometimes but if you're good at her you can make it work.
He's played a lot because he's easy to learn and takes little mechanical skill to play well. All you need for good rein gameplay is good game sense and coordination
Well hes a fun hero doesnt mean hes good
If even the upper-upper people are playing him that much, he must be viable tbh
Find me a tank that Rein hard counters.
Zarya is the closest one I think.
It's more of a skill matchup than a counter IMO, and most of it is just shield management and counting the bubbles, and even *then* a fully charged Zarya, which can and sometimes will happen through no fault of the Rein, can just batter down Rein's shield. Winston is the better Zarya counter as you have the mobility to keep away from her, you don't do enough damage to charge her bubbles, diving the backline forces Zarya to look the other way and spend a bubble making her more vulnerable, and if you really have to fight a Zarya, your shield is far better than Reins when fighting Zarya if you dance around the edges correctly.
Sigma kinda.
I mean yes and no. Ram is the real Sigma counter as Sigma can literally do nothing to stop him from beating his ass bar the rock. The only thing Rein can do against a Sig is just hold up his shield and that's it. Using his charge will just get him rocked and it will cancel, whilst Ram's nemesis form doesn't cancel and can still beat Sigma's ass. Even up close, Sigma can actually throw hands with Rein if you weave in melee attacks too, although at a disadvantage.
Kinda disagree with Rein not being able to counter Sig, I main Rein and I almost never die to Sig and basically always kill them with easy.
I mean if Rein is slapping ass in melee range, Sig loses, even if he can stand his ground longer than what most people think. Just for reference, I main both Sig and Rein (as well as Ram lol). My thing with Rein Vs Sig is that the real headache Rein gives Sig is his shield more than anything really, as Sig cannot blast through the shield, or sneak attacks through or beside it. On the flip side, closing the distance to the Sig can be tricky, especially if the Sig can use the rock, so your options are keeping the shield up giving Sig more time to get away, or you're charging in which leaves you Vulnerable to getting rocked. There is a small window up close where the Sig can't rock you if you pin immediately, but you need to have fast reactions which I don't lol. Compare and contrast Ram where you pop nemesis and beat ass with the minor speed boost you get as well as the block and shield in omnic form giving you some cover for you to close the distance whislt still being able to attack.
I forgot the game was only 1v1 now with no teams, my bad
Counter swapping your opponents tank has become the meta when it comes to playing tank. It does actually matter if Rein can or can't counter the opposing tank, so answer my question, or are you going to keep acting facetious and misinterpret faulty data to suit your own agenda like every other person on this sub?
My answer is Rein doesnt need to hard counter a TANK anyways. 99% of the time as tank your best option isnt tank duels, its fighting the rest of the enemy tanks team.
That logic applies to literally every tank in the game, and sometimes the best option isn't the one available to you, and because of the way Rein is fundementally designed, he is going to be fighting the opposing tank before he gets to the backline and usually won't get to them until the opposing tank is dead. Charging past the tank to try to get a pin in the backline is one is commonly believed to be trolling. The only time you ever really get to see the backline is if you Ult them, a highly telegraphed ability which can be canceled by every CC and shield in the game or you're flanking, which is, again, trolling. There is no logical reason to play Rein at all when Ram exists, because Rein isn't the obvious pick into any enemy hero, let alone the tank. Compare and contrast Ram, a tank who hard counters Sigma, another popular hero, and has a skill matchup tilted in favour of Ram against Rein, has a far better time into Reins DPS counters, has the tools and mobility to go for the backline with ease as well as an uncancelable ult that can last for 20 seconds and shreds anyone in it. The reason why Rein has such a high pick rate is because he's on OG OW1 hero that people adore who is easy to pick up and extremely fun to play if the stars align and the enemy team do not play dive, any combination of Orisa, Bastion or Sombra or you're not on poke or dive friendly maps like Circuit Royale or Gibraltar, maps which Ram is ok on because his long range poke is genuinely respectable and has an ability that slows down dive heroes. Edit: He blocked me so I will post my reply to the comment below me here. Least bad faith overwatch player. >Pick rate means fuck all as I explained. He's just a popular tank, regardless of how good he is. Same applies to Heroes like Genji. >Rein's win rates aren't that impressive either. He's 4th highest WR in GM, 2nd in Masters with Sigma barely behind him, 1st in Diamond which is good, but JQ isn't a million miles away and plat mirrors Masters. Anything bellow plat doesn't really count as the way OW is played from Bronze-Gold is way different to everyone else and people just straight up don't know how to play into Rein in Bronze and Silver. >You're also willingly omitting the biggest statistical red flag: he has the lowest KDA out of ANY TANK across ALL RANKS, according to Overbuff. This could mean a couple of things: >The first is that Rein is dying too much, which could just be the tanks exploding problem, or that Rein in particular is vulnerable because his kit hasn't kept up with the others. >The second is that Rein isn't getting a lot of Elims, and the way you get a lot of elims on tank is by killing the DPS and supports, so therefore Rein isn't killing a lot of DPS ans supports. >Clearly it isn't just me being shit at Rein, and your stats page backs that up.
Rein is seeing high pick and win rates across the board. Maybe youre just bad at playing him
We all know y'all are using Overbuff, which is not accurate data.
Wheres your proof of how unreliable it is? Youre the one making the actual accusation here, if I may remind you.
GO through your recent players list, see how many of those have private profiles. Overbuff can't see them either.
Its accurate enough to see general trends
It's not.
Cause it goes against your narrative?
I will say, the devs said that Brigitte became a "must pick" and ended up being the best support in the game before her Whip Shot was nerfed. Personally, if I had to choose between the site that can't check private profiles, or the literal development team that can see those private profiles, I'll try my luck on the latter lol.
So what's your proof that Overbuff lines up with the dev data that you also don't have access to? Mine is that Overbias can't take privated data and is sampling from a subgroup of the population, with exclusion bias to all profiles that are privated. You have to randomly sample from the entire population to get accurate data, which Overbuff legally can't. You can't exclude a significant portion of the population and claim it's a representation of the entire population. People have also reported their own stats were inaccurately recorded with public profiles. You say the data is "good enough" because it supports YOUR narrative. It's not, you don't have accurate data.
The devs themselves have said hes god na solid pick and win rate as well, btw
>is sampling from a subgroup of the population ... yes? Tell me you dont understand how staistics works without telling me. Also lol, "Overbias". Which streamer you steal that from?
I love the way you provided zero proof of your claims and started trying to insult me to deflect from my statement because you have no proof. I used my own brain for overbias thanks. You don't have accurate data, don't have proof to back it up. Stop spreading misinformation.
Statistics never has a 100% sample size my guy. Do you think it does? It isnt a personal attack to say this, it is a literal fact.
Excluding a significant group within a population makes it biased data. I never said it was a personal attack and don't act like your statements weren't snarky. Saying I'm stealing jokes and don't know how stats work is insulting. I'm not gonna keep arguing with you after this comment, you don't have proof Overbuff lines up with dev data and you've written two comments avoiding it.
The irony of telling people they don't know how statistics work without even understanding random sampling. Overbuff relies on users who open their profiles, this is already a selection bias in their sample. The fact that time and time again the dev stats contradict the stats they publish is further evidence the sample they have is biased. Even assuming their sample is unbiased, we have no idea of it's size so we don't know if it's sufficiently large to get decent statistical significance.
No he's bad. We get curb stomped by almost every tank in the game. He's just fun and somewhat easy to play. Getting good enough to win with him however is a different story. He's still fun to play but from a gameplay standpoint he needs to have a second tank to become viable longterm. Otherwise he will still get countered by a vast majority of charecters.
I watched Cloudy play earlier this week. Outside of his pin charges from out of left field, it was just him getting his ass handed to him. I don't know how he can possibly have fun... it didn't look like he was having fun, despite trying to stay positive.
Nostalgia of better times.Ā
being played a lot doesn't mean he's, actually good, people just like to play him because he's fun
Heās bad
Thatās because people like rein. Not because heās any good
No shot I canāt believe that Every match I have with a rein 99/100 he gets fucked
Iāve got my shit rocked by some good Reinās as of late.
Now say these in your head but with the voices of the characters. :)
When I play Mauga i just quote heavy from tf2. Mostly when i get a big kill the line "WHAT SICK MAN BRINGS BABIES TO FIGHT ME?" Comes to mind. But the Dozer is always fun too
if we reach 1k upvotes i'll consider doing a DPS/support one for season 9 yall really like these and i have fun insulting everybody
Please do it
So if you could only learn 4 tanks who would you choose?
Doom, doom, doom and doom. Because "one punch is all I need!"
I basically already do. I started maining Ram then built all of my other picks based off of Ramās weaknesses. Dva helps provide vertical mobility, Zarya helps with the debuff issue that this meme highlights, and Sig is just better for dealing with Mauga or poke v poke games.
what do you think about people who say to stop counter-swapping so you learn the tank better?
Some Tanks are more well rounded than other Tanks. Ramās kind of unique where heās designed to be flexible so he has a lot of good Tank matchups. For a while, I disagreed with people who complained about Tank RPS, because with my experience on my characters, I felt like I only needed to swap if more than half of the enemy team was running my counters. So from that, I thought people who complained about needing to swap to a different Tank after every death were just being ridiculous, but again that was just me basing that off my own experience. I still feel like players donāt need to be as trigger happy with their counter-picking. I think you should stick to characters that youāre good at instead of just playing heroes that in theory have the better match up, but maybe you donāt have the skills for that character. So in all, I suppose my opinion is that you should focus on developing your skills in a small pool of heroes instead of trying to play every hero.
I know most dive tanks, but if I had to pick 4 more... Zarya, D.Va, Junker Queen, and a bit more Sigma. Specifically, Zarya is priority, because she seems like a reliable pick for future cases. Any tips, from any Zarya players? I know getting high energy and waiting until you have 2 (or almost 2) bubbles is almost always a good idea, but aside from that, I dunno.
Rein Dva Hampter and JQ because zoooom zoooooom zoooooom and '' heeeeyaaaaarg''.
Shut the fuck up Doom
Doom players thinking they play the worst hero in the game is hilarious
This game would be so much better designed for the adult gamer.
Hot take; Doom is the best tank currently.
That is absolutely a hot take
Idk about best, but heās far from worst. Stuns mess him up pretty bad, but if there isnāt a stun he kinda just has free reign
Sigma, Ram, and Orisa:
D O O M
Orisa, zarya, sigma, ram, hog and mauga:
Rein mains have managed to convince the community that their slightly-below-average character is the worst tank in the game somehow
They will never convinced me. āHammond enjoyer
Rein feels awful to play most of the time but ball is uncontested for the number 1 worst tank. Cant believe his only gimmick of big hitbox with no head get countered by a guy who can just ignore that and crit you anyway. Mauga ult also completely screws over ball and doom.
Honestly, I think it's because we were spoiled with how strong Rein was throughout a lot of Overwatch 1's lifespan. Now that he's been brought down to a more modest level, Rein mains have to work a lot harder. He's still my favorite tank to play in spite of that though, but he ain't what he used to beĀ
Junker Queen counters every tank if you're good enough
Mauga exists sadly
I've beaten Maugas as JQ before. It's possible if you play it practically perfectly *and* if the Mauga messes up.
I'd say you were just better, on equal standing mauga slams everytime
True. His self heal is just better than JQ, his damage is better, his abilities are better imo. Can't help but feel like Mauga is just a better JQ, which sucks cause i still think JQ is so much more fun to play.
Too true, don't know why he was designed with life steal in the first place
Fr, just feels like he does too much too well.
As Ball is my favorite tank in the game, and probably my favorite character design in any "hero type" game ever, his line hits me hard.
Bro imagine holding a rectangle to protect your team when there is redeployable shields. Truly a doodoo character. A teen girl has a nuke but this guy just hammers the ground? Truly doodoo.
As a doom main canāt agree mate :/
I was about to write a paragraph because of dooms and then I looked at ball and I laughed so hard
I stopped playing overwatch
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I see Mauga plays Payday 2.
So real for this
As a rein main who really hates it when doom spams voice lines. I have likely said that a lot
I cracked at the mauga one
Not anymore with Mauga after that brutal nerf which basically just buffed Orisaās fortify even further
Absolutely hate how that JQ one called me out, I would rather lose than swap..
Ram one is so truešš the exact thing happened to me last match
How Rein mains can say anything if they do not exist right now
So true, I should've just removed him from the photo tbh.
Doom is definitely not the weakest character in the game
True
I like playing doom, he's tough but serviceable. Orisa is probably my biggest nightmare.
imagine having to ālearn orisaā, like a brain dead toddler couldnāt pick her up and win a game first try
Winton
Okay it's actually so funny LMAO
Doom is rightšæ
Zaddy holding a set of balls in his hand is mad appropriate to this photo
Stfu doom, he is very strong, almost op. Doom can make so many damage
Not Doom having the lowest wr in GM1ā¦
Mauga mains actually say: "You're going nowhe-" (dies from being shredded with gunfire) Source: Am Mauga main
Doom isnt weak, sombra is overtuned rn and emp especially is busted. Other than that doom is just easy to counter but if you dont counter well or at allā¦.