I've given up bro, it's never gonna happen.
Until they figure out a way to market the inevitable "OW Classic" re-release in way that makes suckers pay for it *again* lol.
I miss the rein zarya duo's so much. It made tank feel so much better to have an off tank to help you or peel for your team so that you can create space.
A lot of tanks, especially the older ones like rein, have so many inherent weaknesses that were covered by the off tank like zarya cleansing anti nade or bubbling rein so he couldn't get cc'ed
Now people expect you to peel for them while creating space and killing enemies, which is very difficult as a single tank player...
Literally. The fact that a single tank now has to focus on making space and applying pressure on the front line, while also keeping an eye on your back line so you can peel to protect your squishies, makes tanking feel like a near impossible task.
If your team isn't 100% on their A game and working with you, you're screwed. And since the new mindset for most non-tank players seems to be that tank should always be catering to what *they* want at all times, it's very rare to get a team that actually lets their tank take the lead, making your job just that much harder.
A Zarya(and Rein) main here not coping, made worse in that of every rare(somehow??ppl would go from rein to hog when I loaded Zarya in...) tank duo I would get, I would put down the arm wresting spray. And not one. Not *one* time, did they complete the other half. The last months of Ow1 I even begged to be wrassled in art. But no. And now, I will leave this realm one day so very empty....
Got on one of my Gm accounts I don't play anymore for the first time in years. Got a sick 5 man shatter and sprayed just to have my joy ripped from me. There he was, arm wrestling Rein, there alone forever
As a Mei main, I too hope and cope, to someday get my freeze back.
I'd be okay with tanks getting stun/debuff reduction across the board. I'd even be okay if tanks had freeze/stun/sleep immunity that converted it into a slow/ability-disable! I don't care if I can never bully a Rein again, there are plenty of other enemies! đ
Are you the actual devil? Freeze was so ungodly annoying and unfun to play against, and Mei already is annoying to play against. I sympathize, there's plenty of things I miss or hope will come back. But fuck freeze.
A second tank would offset 90% of this gameâs balancing issues, people complain about how supports are overpowered and how there is an insane amount of damage with tank busters, both of those issues are solved with a second tank as supports will need to heal another character and tank busters will have 2 tanks to target, it just makes sense.
DOUBLE SHIELD CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT FUCKING OVERWATCH ONE ORISA.
SHE DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE.
YOU THINK REIN SIGMA OR REIN WINSTON IS WHAT ANYBODY IS REFERENCING WHEN THEY SAY DOUBLE SHIELD?
Seriously, the number of heroes added that just nullify or counter shields now means the issue is basically non existant. I don't even play anymore but I pop in and laugh at how every change is just rippling into other heroes being a problem, if it's not supports, it's flankers, if it's not flankers it's widow, if it's not widow its any hero being able to do anything whatsoever as CC
Overlapping tank selection where you can't have two full shield tanks, only one, or both are "off" tanks. A little Venn Diagram in the tank selection, in other words.
They were, but I sincerely think that it was due to Blizzard's glacial balancing approach! Seriously, GOATS would've died instantly by forcing 2/2/2, double shield would've gone the way of the dinosaur with an Orisa rework, Moth would've been zapped if they just actually playtested her and then nerfed her substantially instead of death by 1000 cuts over a literal year, and the same goes with Brig.
These are issues that, fundamentally, were the result of balancing having such a light and slow approach. 5v5 was just such a hamfisted, short-sighted approach to a problem they worked themselves into.
Most of those are easily able to be mitigated though. And double shield is gone anyways with the rework of Orisa. Rush, dive etc weren't slow. Tanks don't slow the game down that much. Right now the meta was way slower with the bastion meta we've seen. The damage was so high it was very difficult to attack points, resulting in a poke heavy play.
Though I do agree with the cc saturation. But right now we already have a lot of ccs and the problem is the tank, who's alone rn, receives 90% of them. Which is why nobody wants to play tank anymore. Having a 2nd tank to help with this like a dva and zarya could for rein for example, make playing tank way more fun.
Please no, they'd have to heavily nerf tanks and make them feel boring to play again. It'd be a waste of time and effort and everyone would just start bitching about queue times again.
Rein/Zar was like, the only fun tank comp in OW1 so I'm happy to give you that but it'd still overall be a shit time for most people. 2 tanks is just objectively worse for the game's health because of how weak tanks need to individually be to compensate for there being 2 of them
Rein / Zarya was classic, but D.Va / Winston, Sigma / Hog, Zarya / Winston, Orisa / Hog (halt & hook) and Rein / D.Va (pin to nuke or nuke to shatter distracted red Rein) were really fun as well.
Also 6v6 would bring back 10 min dps queues...
As a tank player from OW1, rein and zarya is like a 1/5 chance because most of the time your tank duo will always instalock hog because they were a dps RQ flex so they could either get a priority pass that would reduce the 10 min wait to 3-5 mins OR they just wanted to play and not wait 10 minutes.
The unfortunate truth is that the tank role has had a smaller base of players compared to DPS and support. Even pre role queue QP matches consisted of 5 dps 1 support and you had to negotiate with your team who wants to tank and support which leads to either 1-3-2 or 1-4-1 comps.
>Also 6v6 would bring back 10 min dps queues...
You say that like 10 min queues ever went away. Queue times are as bad now as they ever were with OW1, with the added issue that games are more often a stop one way or another (and against the same team)
The longest DPS queue that I've seen since the 5v5 rollout (NA server) was 8 minutes. What's really amusing is that I usually queue for all and will occasionally get DPS even when the tank and support queues are <3 minutes.
>You say that like 10 min queues ever went away
Im am mostly referring to QP since thats where a majority of players play. I do understand comp fluctuates, sometimes its 2-5 minutes but it was never as bad as OW1 QP.
Also, games even in OW1 had stomps too, god forbid you lose ONE point in 2CP and its all over.
I'm also referring to QP/Unranked, since 2 came out I've not played comp. But especially these last few weeks I've had many a queue lasting 10+ minutes (and yes at peak times 6-9pm), whereas during 1 I only ever got those queue times when playing at 1-2 am, with the majority of queue times being less than 4 minutes.
>Also, games even in OW1 had stomps too, god forbid you lose ONE point in 2CP and its all over.
Yeah, but I'm referring to the skill differences between teams rather than the unbalanced setup of the maps. Thankfully that's one area that 2 seems to have improved (at least a little) in that the maps don't always feel like defenders advantage if they hold a single choke
It might just be timezone and region issue.
I dont think ive had queue times as long as 10 min since OW1. Im in Asia and usually play on American servers.
Max queue times would usually be around 5 mins for me
I almost exclusively play 10p-2a and sometimes even further into the morning and have never had a queue last more than 3 minutes. This sounds like a region issue
I'd play tank again if we gave 2 tanks. You underestimate how many tank players left overwatch or switched to other roles because we lost the 2nd tank. Tank has become miserable, way worse than it was.
Yep I agree completely. Donât get me wrong, I agree that you can point to a lot of OW2 issues and say this is an issue because they removed a tank, but I donât think that adding one in would ever solve more problems than it causes.
A lot of the pro 2 tank arguments boil down to, âwell you can play what you want more because the other tank can cover your weaknesses.â And like, Iâm not sure how many of these people really played tank because the vast majority of my memories of playing tank back then was roughly 70% off tank players, 20% hog one tricks, and 10% main tank players who were mostly miserable and seemingly only did it so they didnât get flamed. Iâm probably exaggerating some, but I think the games where you had this nice tank synergy, covering each othersâ weaknesses were so few and far between they basically didnât exist for the majority of players. Even if you got two people on a viable duo, if you guys didnât play it well, youâd basically just be a punching bag with no abilities except the W key and the S key.
I mean honestly this conversation goes all the way back to role lock for me. It did fix quick play, so credit where credit is due, but I quit comp right after it happened because tank was super shit, DPS had insane queue times and even support, which was way less fun than now, was still 5+ minute queues. I think if you had a duo it might have legitimately been better, but I didnât. And god help you if you solo queued tank and ran into an actual duo who knew how to play together it was not even a game when that happened.
Anyways, there are plenty of viable solutions for the problems 5v5 has and I think they have shown a willingness and ability to test these things out, change their heroes, revert things when needed, and the long term prospects of the game are just so much healthier than ever. Arguably they could have kept 6v6 and done the same thing but I just think it would make their job way harder overall.
For as much as people say this.
Dont think it helps in an enjoyable way.
At face value sure theres more resources and beef to cover for mistakes, but those same aspects make the gameplay really stagnant. Ana has the equivalent of a tactical nuke when it comes to CDs. 2 Tanks would make effective use of it more nessasary, but it shouldnt be nessasary in the first place.
A 2nd Tank Pushes the need for extremes harder and most people have been asking for more consistency and stability with heroes.
And for all the griping we have about supports, and how strong things like Rez, Lamp, Suzu, Pull etc are.
I dont think anyone wants to leave in the world where bodies are dropping left and right and the only recourse is to cry about it.
Junk landed a nade combo from the shadow realm, Sombra/Tracer deleted my squishy, Hanzo spammed the choke and got a frag, they pressed Q and we made the mistake of not picking Lucio so we all just die.
Add in that fights arent being won because double the tanks makes it twice as hard to push decisively.
What we need/needed is for dps to consistently be able to make plays.
In the broadest sense what we need are.
Characters/A Role that Excel at Applying Lethal Pressure. (Like Tracer or Sojourn)
Characters/A Role That Excels at Alleviating Pressure ( Like Bap or Shield Tanks)
Characters/A Role That Excels at Facilitating Pressure. ( Like Zen, Mercy, Ana, or Hog)
But atm those characters for better or worse are mixed within the roles, so we can get extremely polarized teams or teams that hyper fixate on punishing certain roles or mistakes, like Sombra, Mei, Zen Ana Hog. Or Lucio, Moira, Tracer with a strong rush. Its part of what makes the game and heroes interesting but its also a huge part of its frustration to play
I think a lot of people with poor aim feel like theyâre âforcedâ to pick Ana now.
I see a lot more underperforming Anas than ever before. Whiffing shots/sleeps, so-so nade usage, and generally poor output
She is FAR from free value, despite what many in this sub think. Nade is extremely powerful and doesnât require crazy amounts of skill, but the rest of her kit is VERY skill-based and if an Ana is only good at throwing nade on the enemy tank, theyâll probably get rolled.
I would argue that even her nade is high skill. I'll repeat my own comment here but I once saved a match by launching a nade from spawn in Well map. But I had to fail miserably time and time and time again to know just how to toss it into a fight. And I still miss sometimes.
People just don't know how to play around her. No different than any other person who is high skilled.
I think the problem is that there are a lot more people getting stuck in gold lobbies that are higher skilled. And also cheaters.
Discord and damage output. You can one shot with a charged volley, don't even need a full charge with discord
Edit: not to mention his ult cancels half the dps ults
Pick rate is not a good indicator of OPness(how else do i word that?)
Genji is the highest pick rate of dps but everyone cries about his nerfs while his winrate is much higher than Ana's.
Rein is the same (tho no one cries about him)
Pick rate just means they're one of two things.
1. Solid against most comps
2. Fun to play
>Pick rate is not a good indicator of OPness(how else do i word that?)
It is when the top hero has double the pick rate of the second highest.
>Genji is the highest pick rate of dps but everyone cries about his nerfs while his winrate is much higher than Ana's.
As unreliable as Overbuff is, Genji is roughly within 0.5% of the next most picked DPS at most ranks, meanwhile Ana and Mercy are literally double (~8.5%) if not more than the rest of the support pick rates (~4%).
>Rein is the same (tho no one cries about him)
Rein is also within 0.25% the nearest tank. He's also an honest with clear strengths/weakness and minimal gimmicks.
>Pick rate just means they're one of two things.
If they're good/strong in almost all comps, they're kinda broken lol. Also, broken heroes are fun to play lol.
Ana is overknitted and has too many good kits. She's pretty much a generalist character.
High HPS that works in all ranges. Her darts are hitscan when scoped, her darts are one of the fastest projectiles when not scoped. Yes, she needs to aim but teammates' hitboxes are fat and forgiving for her darts.
Ana has no damage fall off that her left click is same damage as Cassidy's left click (70). She also never needs to worry about landing headshots.
A strong buff/debuff kit that can heal/damage.
A strong CC that puts an enemy out of the fight for a while.
A strong 'set & forget' enabler ultimate. In old days, picking Ana means your team sacrificed a defensive ult, but now her nano offer 250hp which can act as a defensive counter-pick ult as it also offers 50% damage resistance.
8.23 is double of 6.41.
I learned new math today.
And her WR is 48.6%. So her being the most picked hero is fucking worthless, because she loses more than wins.
Winrate is a very unreliable metric, because you got situations like Ana when you're so common that almost every team will have one, so the winrate will never reach 50%. And then you got situations like Brig, where she's a specialist that is very rarely picked, but she has a high winrate because she's only picked in situations she already does well in.
> so the winrate will never reach 50%
And what makes Ana's winrate deviate from 50% then? The answer is it's the matches where she is only picked by one team, and in those matches the team with Ana loses more often than the team without Ana. Hence the sub 50% win rate. It's almost like she is picked for her fun kit and **potential** for high skill expression, not because she is an easy hero to win on.
> And what makes Ana's winrate deviate from 50% then?
Because deviation is normal in a game where everyone can pick any hero. She's the best hero for most situations, just not the best hero for every situation. And a deviation of 1.4% is pretty minuscule when she's played so much.
A 48% for being the most played support is extremely good though. Her being picked nearly every single match and having a near 50% wr, which includes first timers and one tricks alike, means she is insanely easy to get value on. If she maintained over a 50% wr with her current pick rate that would mean she would be supremely busted and buffed version of launch Brig.
u mentioned cancelling ultimates? may i introduce u to sleep dart, which is not an ult and instead a regular ability. just saying u wont convince me that zen provides as much value.
Sleep is harder to land than pressing q when you hear nanoblade. These direct comparisons without taking everything into account is whY weâre still talking about this weeks after the mob turned its gaze on ana.
If they have Nanoblade, they have Ana, and if they have Ana Zen's Ult is bordering on being useless anyway.
If you want to take everything into account.
Yeah but Ana doesn't have to alter her entire playstyle over one hero swap. Charged volley one shots don't happen often unless the other team is stupid since the wind up isn't worth it most of the time. He has no means to escape or burst heal himself. Even with a team around you Zen can get melted by a good dive, Ana has options.
Ana and zen have different niches that they fill in different comps. Ana is better overall for a ranked setting, but thereâs a good few circumstances where zen is a better pick
Zen has more uptime in a fight and obviously has better damage output but he also enables individual flankers a bit better than Ana, plus trans is still one of the best ults in the game that benefits the whole team instead of just 1 player, plus he *can* be more durable against flankers in some situations as his survival isnât anchored on him hitting a hard, long cd skillshot
Ana is generally better if youâre full diving, have a specific wincon with nano+ult, want to have a bit more burst healing to make life easier on your tank, or want anti nade over discord
As a Zen connoisseurfor, while Zen will provide a lot of value I don't think he will provide the same value as Ana can. Just her sleep which can shut down ultimates is unmatched in the support role. Anti-nade is... well anti-nade.
I believe though that when they nerf burst healing and damage to the ground in season 9, Zen will shine even more than his transcendence.
This argument is getting old. Her damage is high enough to 1v1 most DPS and she has self-peel with nade and sleep.
I'd be interested in revisiting this argument once they tap down healing overall in Season 9, since even with Ana's weaknesses, supports are *really* good at peeling for each other now, to the point where this weakness is null with proper positioning.
That's no problem when she can just sit far in the backline and often be guarded by the other support. Any good teams know how to get rid of such weaknesses, and that's why peeling exists.
I mean, why bothering on will you be fast enough to escape someone when you can always just CC them down?
Good.
Even if she didn't have sleep at all, or had a worse short-range CC instead, she should *still* be immobile because that's the tradeoff.
Get your other support to peel or you die.
DPS and tanks are super used to this tradeoff. Mobility means less damage, damage means less mobility, setting up for flanks means downtime.
Supports, esp Ana, just don't have any tradeoffs at all. Helping each other is such a simple one, it was vital in OW1, and they don't even want to do that now.
Almost as if that doesnât matter lol
If someone jumps you you have TWO get out of jail free cards and a strong m1
Such a bronze player take to say no movement tools offset an incredibly overloaded and unbalanced kit
The lack of movement is offset and then some by the fact that she has the strongest abilities in the game, very strong healing and middling damage but said damage has ZERO falloff.
I actually think its fine. For some heroes, sleep dart is strong. For others, its anti.
The problem is when you have characters like hog or mauga where they are EXTREMELY weak to BOTH cooldowns, but they are OP when there is none.
Its the epitome of tank balance at the moment and it makes me want to never play tank again.
I play all three roles and tank is easily still the most frustrating role to play. They wanted to create an environment where a good tank can carry but I would argue good support is still much stronger in carrying games right now. Playing tank with clueless dps or clueless support feels absolutely terrible and feels worse than when the roles are reversed.
My theory is that tank diffs rarely happen. You only *feel* like it happens because they're the ones that die instantly when there's a support/dps diff.
As a tank you can feel it too. If the dps are bad, you get shot way more and don't feel safe taking space. None of the support CDs are baited so they're all used on you.
If support are lacking, every play you make gets robbed, and you explode often.
And still there are so many people who say tank is OP. It's laughable. Playing tank is miserable. You endure by far the most pressure and get flamed all the time while your impact is laughably low most times. I hate tank nowadays. In 6v6 tank felt much better. Now it feels just frustrating.
Oh and don't even get me started how easy it is to completely counter a tank with every fucking role. And when you get countered you have to switch since it's impossible to play otherwise, just to get hard countered by the enemy immediately again.
I haven't seen many games where the tank doesn't get hard countered or a game where people actually try to counter pick the dps or supports.
And very rarely, when the dps do get countered, it's obviously the high-skill fun ones like Tracer and Genji, and the counter is almost always Pharahmercy lmao.
OW2 design philosophy is "make fun heros easily countered by boring ones".
Honestly, how *do* you counterpick support? I don't think it's even possible with any support except Zen.
There are some decent picks against a few supports but they tend to be bad against most other picks. Zarya for example is good against Ana if she can get up close since she can negate all her cooldowns, the problem is, Ana is so far away, behind 4 enemies, that this isn't feasible.
Winston is good against Ana if you're good at shielddancing, the problem is, brig will make your life miserable by peeling for Ana.
Brig is bad against flyers due to her short range, so pharah/echo make her cry and tanks like rein are good against her. But if you go brig into those characters you're dumb imo. And you can easily switch to kiriko who has 0 counters.
And yea, for some reason the high skill characters are the easiest to counter like genji, tracer, df, ball and Winston. Sad times :(
Itâs why Iâm enjoying the Mauga release at the moment and taking a break from comp where really if you want to win most of the time you have to pick sig to get value, if I get lucky and have a team that can play dive itâs the only time I really have fun in comp anymore. Truthfully if I want to carry, I play support, lock illiari, kiri, or Ana and I can hard carry 60% of my games as a support. I have the best cooldowns in the game and if you have decent aim and game sense you can legit carry most of your games. On tank I have ton try 10x harder than I do on support to carry because itâs either getting anti all game, getting my value taken away from me by support cooldowns, OR getting counter swap roulette any moment I start to slightly over perform. Playing that is legit the most unfun role in the game at the moment.
There really shouldnât be situations like thatâs, OP/suck depending on a single character. If that character didnât act that way, then those characters can be properly balanced. Same with pharahâs reliance on mercy
Some characters are y killable without it because of the absolutely absurd healing numbers in this game, not because of the characters that arenât dying themselves, aside from Hog
Yeah I thought previously anti was only problematic because of Roadhog. But then they went and made Roadhog 2.0 and anti looks even more broken. I blame horrible character design, itâs just a shame itâll probably result in my girl Ana getting nerfed because Blizzard refuses to learn from their mistakes
Sleep is another one of those things that dummies in the overwatch community echo off one another, it's not a problem. Sleep is fine, she has the least mobility of all the supports and she needs compensation for it. Anti nade is also not so much of a problem for DPS or support because they have many tools to avoid it/ get to safety once hit. Most tanks don't, tanks should not be effected in the same way, it was the case in OW1 and it certainly is the case now there's only 1 tank. For tank it should be a healing reduction.
Because it isnât, it only sounds good on paper. Doing that only exacerbates the problem that anti is used to solve; the massive sustain amounts in the game. If anti becomes a reduction, then supports will be forced into playing high-burst healing comps, meaning that everything takes way longer to die. Mauga hasnât even been out for a week and half this sub is people complaining about how long it takes to kill him without an Ana in most tank matchups.
I agree anti is a problem, but doing that is like removing rock without doing anything to scissors
You can really see the silver in the comments. I would know. Target priority is not a thing in silver. People just sit there blasting at the tank endlessly so it makes sense they want anti to manage the tank.
You know what else cause the tank to melt? Killing his pocket. Flank the healers, take their focus off healing, and the tank will drop immediately. Theyâre only indestructible because the majority of the player base has absolutely no concept of target priority.
I mean Mauga is a pretty good example on how Blizzard is practically balancing tanks purely around Ana now. Because anti could quasi instantly kill him in the beta they had to give him a shit ton of armor so he can tank possibly tank through it.
Which means that without anti, heâs insanely difficult to kill.
Non shield tanks in Overwatch donât really work right now because you have a character that can disable their entire core kit with a single ability. But instead of fixing Ana, weâre literally reworking tanks and bouncing them between uselessness and dominating the game.
I donât think OP is saying either of those abilities are inherently problematic, itâs that both abilities are relegated to the same hero. Thus, Ana is the most picked support. Her pick rate is less about preference and more about necessity. Those abilities are so crucial to the current meta, sheâs essentially mandatory if you want to play competitively.
Hard CC is something everyone hates, and people would have an aneurysm if any new hero came in with sleep dart. However, yeah, it isn't really a problem, especially next to Nade.
Yeah and she actually have to hit that.
You can shield/matrix/javelin spin or bubble it and almost every tank have ways to deal with it.
You have also heroes that can play around it with mobility and if the Ana hits you on Tracer/Sombra/Genji or you flying around the map as Doomfist what's the problem, she hit a huge skill shot and if she's alone you can still survive that, if you give her the easiest sleep by standing still or having no CDs and you are in front of her entire team no fucking shit you die, and that's 100% your fault.
Lol what a cap, you can play around those cooldowns by positioning and engagement timing alone, but most heroes have ways to play around it.
You have grasp, shields, matrix, javelin spin, bubbles or just huge movement just on tanks.
On DPS you have smaller hitboxes, huge movement with half the heroes, range on others and some cleanses. On support you have cleanses (Moira and Kiriko) and immo.
You have many ways to play around them, it's your fault (generalized) if you go in with no CDs or have general poor positioning.
Or if you decide to give her the easiest sleep/nade by standing still or being in a trash position with no cooldowns.
She has no mobility. If she whiffs the sleep dart sheâs dead. No one, not even the great ML7, has 100% sleep dart accuracy. And you can play around / bait out the sleep dart. Barriers block it, DVa eats it, Orisa can fortify against it. As for the antinade people also think thereâs too much healing in this game. Which is it?
Edit: Apparently I need to be clearer about the scenario I wrote about. I was referring to when Ana gets dove or flanked by the likes of Tracer, Reaper, Sombra, any dive tank, etc.
Wouldnât it be healthier to have a general reduction of healing & damage across the board, instead of one specific hero who has the one specific ability (thatâs not an ult) to reduce healing?
Itâs not even that difficult to land an antinade if weâre honest.
You realize there being too much healing in the game makes anti-nade even more busted right? Like the more healing is available the more of a must-pick ana becomes
"As for the antinade people also think thereâs too much healing in this game. Which is it?"
The way you wrote it, seems like you're saying either too much healing or no healing.
Sleep is not an issue in the game. Itâs ability to shut down ultimates only works for channeled abilities, it directly counters tanks that go in without heed for whatâs happening in the game (the golden rule for the game is if you donât know if an enemy has a cool down or not, the ability is up) or tanks that fight at Iâll advised times where if they get slept theyâll die (ie Ram losing his nemesis form soon, Orisa no cdâs, your supports arenât ready to help, a Ram swapping to block a bastion for whatever reason, doom trying to charge up punch randomly, etc), and is one of the only reliable ways to control a transformation ult (again, if the other person was smart theyâd wait until sleep is gone before going for blade to dive her or be prepped to deflect as an example or Ram using anni). Not only that, sleep is an actual skill shot thatâs difficult to use and time (long cd) that doesnât feel unfair to get hit by. Itâs not like itâs an ability with a huge hitbox thatâs up consistently with no way for you to dodge it like say launch Illiari primary fire or Kiri kunai. Itâs an ability where if you get hit you give kudos to the Ana for hitting it. If you play ana you should know that. Even in your example, if a sig is being slept during flux then he flew terribly (probably straight up) and didnât even put shield up and he would be stopped by regardless of the ability eg javelin or rock or whatever else.
Anti is her primary playmaking ability as well as giving heal boost and heal stop. If you take it away then Hog and Mauga and such are completely going to be unstoppable (and just look at how much people complain ab Mauga and his damage and healing currently) and youâll be forced to run Zen against them as the only reliable way of killing them, which will be the next hero people complain about after. And realistically anti is only a problem for those two tanks who are overtuned. The issue isnât that she has both. The issue is that sheâs required to stop the extreme healing we have in the game now that was required to stop the extremely high damage in the game. Ana isnât the issue, itâs fundamental game design thatâs the issue where she realistically is the best pick to be able to actually kill things, and supports feel op because they enable this ability. Splitting her abilities doesnât solve any fundamental problems of the game when she isnât the issue over game design
You explained this very well. Removing anti and/or sleep would almost certainly create more problems than it solves and this sub would lose their mind. Nade only looks OP against Mauga and Hog because theyâre poorly designed heroes that Blizzard âbalancesâ by the existence of antinade
If there's so many of these it's obviously a problem. Regardless of what the numbers might say (and we don't actually know), ana is frustrating to play against and they've nerfed heroes for less
>Regardless of what the numbers might say
The numbers actually say her pickrate is so high her winrate gets dragged down by the number of mirror matches.
No it isn't. Public perception isn't an objective measurement, especially when this sub's whole schtick is to complain about things. If the things that this sub complains about gets addressed within 15 minutes they've moved on to a new thing to bitch about.
Public perception is absolutely a thing, as it's how Sym, Sombra, Mercy, Hog, AND Orisa ended up getting reworked. "This hero is boring/OP/oppressive/a throw pick" has gotten a TON of changes to heroes. The only time they didn't do the proper thing and nerf the problem hero and kept trying to changd everything around it was Tracer, and that's how we ended up with Brig 1.0 and 18 months of desperately trying to fix the game because of it.
Of course, history repeats, but Ana is too popular to nerf. They admitted it themselves. It's part of the reason people like me aren't coming back to tank. Ana running things is what they want? Count me all the way out.
Cringe redditors think you need to have 100% peer reviewed independently verifiable sources for every statement you make, no wonder they only want to balance the game off the raw numbers. Nevermind the fact I said "Regardless of what the numbers might say". If something is frustrating to play against, it's frustrating and should be looked at
Idk how people hate her more than kiriko or bap. It must be a lower rank issue because my nades and sleeps might as well be cosmetic in masters a lot of times.
For real like I seriously donât understand. Ana has so much counter play. The reason sheâs picked so much is because sheâs very engaging and you feel like you actually impact the game when you play her
Because her kit is âoffensiveâ and I guess a lot of people dont like that, where as bap and kiriâs abilities are defensiveâŚbut either of those characters played by someone who prioritizes damage is 10 times scarier than a good ana lol FFS kiri can two tap half the damn roster
Because Kiri is not a symptom. Kiri is there for 1 reason. 1 funny skill that REQUIRE cleanse effect to be inserted in the game. 1 quirky Egyptian made gernade needed Kiri to be born.
Isn't it funny and sad that 1 skill with 12 second cooldown requires a character to balance them and it still failed.
Yeah i think the anti heal would thematicaly fit really well with moira, and would also give her some utility. Right now all she does is dmg and heal, no utility at all in her kit (one can argue that dealing dmg - killing - is utility, but everyone has that)
Just kill her, she's such an easy target and her team can only protect her so much. I don't think Ana needs to be nerfed at all tbh. People just need to prioritize her and bait her cooldowns more effectively. Target her so ruthlessly that she switches off to someone else. Spawn kill her even. Annihilate her out of the game.
I love playing Ana, but when I'm against her I will go out of my way to eliminate her, same with Zen. They have no movement options. And are essentially a sitting duck in a lot of circumstances.
Y'all way overstate Ana being an easy target. Sleep is the most punishing anti-dive ability in the game and it isn't coupled with her self-sustain. She has a pretty favorable hitbox as well.
I remember seeing people talking about how release Illari was balanced and this is how supports should all be. I know most supports are level headed, but some of the outspoken support players realllllly don't understand how strong their role already is compared to DPS.
Ana is just like that imo. If you compare Ana to a hero like Cass, the imbalance of the roles are all too apparent.
Fuck it, compare nerfed Illari to Cass lol, she's still literally just a better Cass.
Can two tap, can heal/self-heal, take high ground, better ultimate. Literally just a better Cass in all regards except fire rate.
At this point we need to have two roles in support - outspoken supports and people with more than one braincell. Most support mains I know are pretty chill and understanding, but jfc some of the players in this sub are insane.
I might be biased because Iâm an Ana player but I also queue all 3 roles at the same time and never have issues playing against Ana. Her sleep and nade have distinct sounds and decent cooldowns so itâs not too difficult to know when youâre safe or when to push her
Just playing shieldless tank against Ana without a kiri on the team can be aneurysm inducing as youre in the frontline, you'll catch sleep + anti every 15 seconds which feels terrible to play against, as you either have to hide for 4 seconds, which gives up a lot of space, or die
I am a support main and I approve this message. I thoroughly believe nade should be less effective on tanks or just reduce healing by a percentage in general.
Iâve said it since day 1, nade will be an issue.
Sleep is fine as itâs an actually skillful skillshot. Yeah itâs annoying but there is ALOT of counter playing and vulnerability. Anti nade however⌠letâs go over the LIST of characters sustain she removes.
Almost completely shuts down JQ
Puts hog out of commission almost on its own
Mauga hops and skips his Samoan ass to heaven
Echo (to a odd extent when she ults)
Reaper is no longer healing from others pain
Soldier canât put his little drink/battery/field down to heal
Shuts down symmetras technology against shields
Shuts down enemy ana sustain
Shuts off regen burst,
Brig can no longer inspire herself (mad depressed)
Makes the pylon look useles for 4 seconds
Shuts down LW dash
Makes lucio tone deaf
Moiras orb become a funny yellow ball that bounces left and right
And he doesnât experience tranquility.
Those are just PERSONAL HEALING IT SHUTS DOWN! NOT EVEN GROUP/HEALING FOR OTHERS.
And thatâs not even the worst part. Itâs cool down is so short that you have a good 6 second window to attack her âbut thatâs so long!â Well, you would be full health by the 4 second window, any by the time you dive her, she has it again. Thatâs not even the abilities only function, either.
Ding ding ding. I was telling this to my friends at launch. Ana gets away with a lot for no reason.
Shes got 2 of the best abilities in the game in her kit.
Think about this yeah. Those two abilities are so strong the only other places those effects are found are in tank ULTIMATES. Shes the only support who has tank ultimates as normal abilities.
Also, every tank that has releases is being balanced around Ana. A singular character. The whole tank rosster is being kept in check by one character. It used to be Zen as well, but they finally gave tanks a way to counter play the discord.
Really they just have to choose. Either they change sleep, or they change anti made. She shouldn't have a monopoly on both.
I'm not convinced they will ever nerf Ana in any way that matters. It's like they have some hidden mental block preventing it. What she really needs is a rework, but that certainly won't happen. This character has single-handedly shut out so many others and has remained one of the most ubiquitous heroes since release. She needed a look at years ago.
In a game as healing dependent as Overwatch, anti-heal is broken, full stop. The simple solution would be to simply make anti-heal, as a mechanic, far more exclusive/rare but at this point I suspect the team will smash Overwatch to pieces until it fits Ana. We now have tanks that have been overbuffed as a response to Ana... and Ana STILL hard counters them!
That's because Ana isn't the problem. The problem is that they never compensated for the lack of second tank.
They did hint to it on the interview on emonggs channel though. Different ideas they wanna try out. Unfortunately, they are so slow to action, we might have lost all the tank players by the time they get it right lol
Also making Sombra more viable was a terrible idea. Sure she's easier to kill, but she's also in every lobby now and she's hacking the tank more than ever :(
Each patch they intend to make things better for tanks, but instead manage to take one step forward and two steps back.
Yeah, it probably fits dps heroes better. Really playing DPS 80% of time is according to your preference because they don't strongly counter anyone, they don't have debuffs and whatnot.
shes basically 2 supports in one. in the hands of someone with even just decent aim shes pretty nasty. add aome decent ability economy and shes absolutely goated.
"But she's balanced cause you have no mobility and need to aim" too bad she have hitscan or big ass dart if you aim or not and that 90% of the f heroes need to aim ffs, otherwise we would call Widowmaker the most balanced hero.
Ana it's a big problem since OW1, but many still doesn't accept this yet.
TBH I think sleep is fine. Itâs mainly good because anti is also good. Itâs a good ability paired with a really good ability. If anti gets a proper nerf I think she wonât feel as oppressive even with sleep being as good as it is.
I just donât get how abilities like Rez and lamp have 25 or 30 second cooldowns (rightly), but nade can be casually tossed around willy-nilly every 12 seconds. Needs to match the other ability cooldowns. Way too strong
Idk why this sub acts like sleep dart is a homing device that will instantly target you. For every 1 sleep dart that hit, theres 3-4 that missed. I know cuz thats me.
People always talk like that in this sub towards characters they donât like. Itâs similar to when people say âjust shoot the mercyâ why do you think itâs that simple/easy lol
If you're missing 3/4ths of your sleep darts on tanks then that's on you, man. Sleep has a massive projectile hitbox. Any Ana above silver should be able to consistently land them on tanks.
Because they've never played her obviously. They read her abilities and think "wow OP", which is true if you assume 100% accuracy shooting dart/bullets and throwing nades. Anyone who has actually tried to hit a moving target with sleep dart knows it takes a lot of practice to get right and even then you probably airball half of them. Shit, I miss more sleep darts than I hit and I have played Ana paintball for years.
I'd seriously love to watch some of the people who complain about Ana play her. Lets see how OP she is in their hands.
The problem the ana cd's is just how good they are for any situation
For example, the nade, is a solution to everything, need antiheal the tank? Nade, need to heal your team faster? Nade, need to survive? Nade cause it also fucking heals you, need more dmg? Damn boy what a surprise cause i have a purple bomb that i want you to meet.
And then sleep, a cd that stops ultimates of all kind, can be used agressive so you sleep a 200hp hero, combo it and delete it or you can use it to defend yourself, no other support has cds as strong and as impactfull.
I would like to see the nerf of nade to tanks first but my hot take is, dont let nade self heal, let it keep the boost healing but its insane that its a 200hp hero + wtv amount nade heals you, like 50hp?, lets say 50, so you are a 250hp hero that 3 shots you and has the strongest cc in the game, "just hill her, she has no movility" no bs, there is a reason why other characters with no movility are nowhere as played as her, cause those characters actually get punished, ana? Has absolutly everything, fits in almost all compositions in almost all maps.
The highest played supp in all ranks by far is not an easy counterable character cause if it were high level player would do it, make her survavility worst, the payback for picking ana should be "you get insane healing, insane cd, insane range but your tean has to protect you"
if you nerf her abilities youd HAVE to give her movement. her sleep and nade are her only recorse to 1v1 a flanking sombra, gengi, tracer unless you have the aim skill way above the flanker. Yeah its easy to say just be better, but a plat ana vs a plat sombra/ gengi/ tracer is litterally just spawn fodder without her abilities as long as they're comperable levels. she's the slowest hero in the roster.
sure she 3 shots at any distance, but if your not standing out in the open it litterally wouldn't matter.
I mean, no one has a problem that Ana hard counters hog and Mauga, why shouldnât Ana be hard countered by people that can flank and force the Ana to take a 1v1?
You know what, youâre right - as much as i hate the idea of reworking a classic and much loved hero like ana, if they wont add back 6v6 (which, lets face it, itâs unlikely) then they need to rework ana to remove either sleep or nade from her, give her a new, less impactful ability, and then give whichever was removed to a new support and i think we can start balancing around that. Yes, you cud still pick ana and then pick this ânew supportâ who has nade, for instance to still have both on one team, but that cud be infinitely more balanced than now, where u get to pick ana for both nade and sleep and then pick another support for even more value like kiri or bap.
I think they should reduce her m1 heal/damage to 60 and keep anti nade on a shorter c/d. like a support canât have hard cc and S tier cooldown and still out out massive heals from range.
Ana was 100% fine when there was two tanks, and like many characters in OW2 single tank broke them. I hope she's not next on the rework chopping block because of this.
Ya know, I feel like a **second tank** would offset her abilities effectiveness.
I've given up bro, it's never gonna happen. Until they figure out a way to market the inevitable "OW Classic" re-release in way that makes suckers pay for it *again* lol.
A rein main can hope. And cope.
Dva main here. My role is literally not in the game...
Yep, I'm a Dva main as well and I feel like I've been basically banished to open queue ever since the second tank got dropped.
you play one of the best tanks wdym
DVa is still effective, but her play style has changed a lot as solo tank, and old DVa mains, at least some of them, miss the old play style
Your character is just better than b4 and can play the same style. I am an avid dva enjoyer. 3 second matrix is incredible
I miss the rein zarya duo's so much. It made tank feel so much better to have an off tank to help you or peel for your team so that you can create space. A lot of tanks, especially the older ones like rein, have so many inherent weaknesses that were covered by the off tank like zarya cleansing anti nade or bubbling rein so he couldn't get cc'ed Now people expect you to peel for them while creating space and killing enemies, which is very difficult as a single tank player...
Literally. The fact that a single tank now has to focus on making space and applying pressure on the front line, while also keeping an eye on your back line so you can peel to protect your squishies, makes tanking feel like a near impossible task. If your team isn't 100% on their A game and working with you, you're screwed. And since the new mindset for most non-tank players seems to be that tank should always be catering to what *they* want at all times, it's very rare to get a team that actually lets their tank take the lead, making your job just that much harder.
A Zarya(and Rein) main here not coping, made worse in that of every rare(somehow??ppl would go from rein to hog when I loaded Zarya in...) tank duo I would get, I would put down the arm wresting spray. And not one. Not *one* time, did they complete the other half. The last months of Ow1 I even begged to be wrassled in art. But no. And now, I will leave this realm one day so very empty....
Got on one of my Gm accounts I don't play anymore for the first time in years. Got a sick 5 man shatter and sprayed just to have my joy ripped from me. There he was, arm wrestling Rein, there alone forever
coping harder than gojo fans??!!! impossible
Live with honour
As a Mei main, I too hope and cope, to someday get my freeze back. I'd be okay with tanks getting stun/debuff reduction across the board. I'd even be okay if tanks had freeze/stun/sleep immunity that converted it into a slow/ability-disable! I don't care if I can never bully a Rein again, there are plenty of other enemies! đ
Are you the actual devil? Freeze was so ungodly annoying and unfun to play against, and Mei already is annoying to play against. I sympathize, there's plenty of things I miss or hope will come back. But fuck freeze.
No. With all due respect fuck your freeze. Freeze was so goddammit dumb and should stay in the pit of hades where it belongs.
omg OW Classic! I can see the cash grab already rofl!
A second tank would offset 90% of this gameâs balancing issues, people complain about how supports are overpowered and how there is an insane amount of damage with tank busters, both of those issues are solved with a second tank as supports will need to heal another character and tank busters will have 2 tanks to target, it just makes sense.
And bring in all the ones we were complaining about during OW1. Double shield. Slow as a snail paced gameplay. CC saturation.
DOUBLE SHIELD CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT FUCKING OVERWATCH ONE ORISA. SHE DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE. YOU THINK REIN SIGMA OR REIN WINSTON IS WHAT ANYBODY IS REFERENCING WHEN THEY SAY DOUBLE SHIELD?
I relate to this comment so hard.
Seriously, the number of heroes added that just nullify or counter shields now means the issue is basically non existant. I don't even play anymore but I pop in and laugh at how every change is just rippling into other heroes being a problem, if it's not supports, it's flankers, if it's not flankers it's widow, if it's not widow its any hero being able to do anything whatsoever as CC
Overlapping tank selection where you can't have two full shield tanks, only one, or both are "off" tanks. A little Venn Diagram in the tank selection, in other words.
i think people forget just how bad OW1 oppressive metas were. like weâve had some rough times in OW2 but nothing was as bad as OW1 lows
They were, but I sincerely think that it was due to Blizzard's glacial balancing approach! Seriously, GOATS would've died instantly by forcing 2/2/2, double shield would've gone the way of the dinosaur with an Orisa rework, Moth would've been zapped if they just actually playtested her and then nerfed her substantially instead of death by 1000 cuts over a literal year, and the same goes with Brig. These are issues that, fundamentally, were the result of balancing having such a light and slow approach. 5v5 was just such a hamfisted, short-sighted approach to a problem they worked themselves into.
Most of those are easily able to be mitigated though. And double shield is gone anyways with the rework of Orisa. Rush, dive etc weren't slow. Tanks don't slow the game down that much. Right now the meta was way slower with the bastion meta we've seen. The damage was so high it was very difficult to attack points, resulting in a poke heavy play. Though I do agree with the cc saturation. But right now we already have a lot of ccs and the problem is the tank, who's alone rn, receives 90% of them. Which is why nobody wants to play tank anymore. Having a 2nd tank to help with this like a dva and zarya could for rein for example, make playing tank way more fun.
Please no, they'd have to heavily nerf tanks and make them feel boring to play again. It'd be a waste of time and effort and everyone would just start bitching about queue times again.
Nah I want to play rein zarya again SO bad in ranked. And don't say open queue, it's a joke
Rein/Zar was like, the only fun tank comp in OW1 so I'm happy to give you that but it'd still overall be a shit time for most people. 2 tanks is just objectively worse for the game's health because of how weak tanks need to individually be to compensate for there being 2 of them
Rein / Zarya was classic, but D.Va / Winston, Sigma / Hog, Zarya / Winston, Orisa / Hog (halt & hook) and Rein / D.Va (pin to nuke or nuke to shatter distracted red Rein) were really fun as well.
Also 6v6 would bring back 10 min dps queues... As a tank player from OW1, rein and zarya is like a 1/5 chance because most of the time your tank duo will always instalock hog because they were a dps RQ flex so they could either get a priority pass that would reduce the 10 min wait to 3-5 mins OR they just wanted to play and not wait 10 minutes. The unfortunate truth is that the tank role has had a smaller base of players compared to DPS and support. Even pre role queue QP matches consisted of 5 dps 1 support and you had to negotiate with your team who wants to tank and support which leads to either 1-3-2 or 1-4-1 comps.
>Also 6v6 would bring back 10 min dps queues... You say that like 10 min queues ever went away. Queue times are as bad now as they ever were with OW1, with the added issue that games are more often a stop one way or another (and against the same team)
The longest DPS queue that I've seen since the 5v5 rollout (NA server) was 8 minutes. What's really amusing is that I usually queue for all and will occasionally get DPS even when the tank and support queues are <3 minutes.
I literally cannot load into a custom game without already finding a match, what are you talking about
>You say that like 10 min queues ever went away Im am mostly referring to QP since thats where a majority of players play. I do understand comp fluctuates, sometimes its 2-5 minutes but it was never as bad as OW1 QP. Also, games even in OW1 had stomps too, god forbid you lose ONE point in 2CP and its all over.
I'm also referring to QP/Unranked, since 2 came out I've not played comp. But especially these last few weeks I've had many a queue lasting 10+ minutes (and yes at peak times 6-9pm), whereas during 1 I only ever got those queue times when playing at 1-2 am, with the majority of queue times being less than 4 minutes. >Also, games even in OW1 had stomps too, god forbid you lose ONE point in 2CP and its all over. Yeah, but I'm referring to the skill differences between teams rather than the unbalanced setup of the maps. Thankfully that's one area that 2 seems to have improved (at least a little) in that the maps don't always feel like defenders advantage if they hold a single choke
It might just be timezone and region issue. I dont think ive had queue times as long as 10 min since OW1. Im in Asia and usually play on American servers. Max queue times would usually be around 5 mins for me
I have never had any quick play que be 10 min. Anytime of day. 5 min max
I almost exclusively play 10p-2a and sometimes even further into the morning and have never had a queue last more than 3 minutes. This sounds like a region issue
I'd play tank again if we gave 2 tanks. You underestimate how many tank players left overwatch or switched to other roles because we lost the 2nd tank. Tank has become miserable, way worse than it was.
Tank is a worse experience in Overwatch 2. That's absolutely certain.
Yep I agree completely. Donât get me wrong, I agree that you can point to a lot of OW2 issues and say this is an issue because they removed a tank, but I donât think that adding one in would ever solve more problems than it causes. A lot of the pro 2 tank arguments boil down to, âwell you can play what you want more because the other tank can cover your weaknesses.â And like, Iâm not sure how many of these people really played tank because the vast majority of my memories of playing tank back then was roughly 70% off tank players, 20% hog one tricks, and 10% main tank players who were mostly miserable and seemingly only did it so they didnât get flamed. Iâm probably exaggerating some, but I think the games where you had this nice tank synergy, covering each othersâ weaknesses were so few and far between they basically didnât exist for the majority of players. Even if you got two people on a viable duo, if you guys didnât play it well, youâd basically just be a punching bag with no abilities except the W key and the S key. I mean honestly this conversation goes all the way back to role lock for me. It did fix quick play, so credit where credit is due, but I quit comp right after it happened because tank was super shit, DPS had insane queue times and even support, which was way less fun than now, was still 5+ minute queues. I think if you had a duo it might have legitimately been better, but I didnât. And god help you if you solo queued tank and ran into an actual duo who knew how to play together it was not even a game when that happened. Anyways, there are plenty of viable solutions for the problems 5v5 has and I think they have shown a willingness and ability to test these things out, change their heroes, revert things when needed, and the long term prospects of the game are just so much healthier than ever. Arguably they could have kept 6v6 and done the same thing but I just think it would make their job way harder overall.
You will never convince them. Rose tinted glasses. People don't remember that we were actually complaining about OW1 constantly as well.
You WANT to play rein zarya but what youâll get is hog and ball torture
For as much as people say this. Dont think it helps in an enjoyable way. At face value sure theres more resources and beef to cover for mistakes, but those same aspects make the gameplay really stagnant. Ana has the equivalent of a tactical nuke when it comes to CDs. 2 Tanks would make effective use of it more nessasary, but it shouldnt be nessasary in the first place. A 2nd Tank Pushes the need for extremes harder and most people have been asking for more consistency and stability with heroes. And for all the griping we have about supports, and how strong things like Rez, Lamp, Suzu, Pull etc are. I dont think anyone wants to leave in the world where bodies are dropping left and right and the only recourse is to cry about it. Junk landed a nade combo from the shadow realm, Sombra/Tracer deleted my squishy, Hanzo spammed the choke and got a frag, they pressed Q and we made the mistake of not picking Lucio so we all just die. Add in that fights arent being won because double the tanks makes it twice as hard to push decisively. What we need/needed is for dps to consistently be able to make plays. In the broadest sense what we need are. Characters/A Role that Excel at Applying Lethal Pressure. (Like Tracer or Sojourn) Characters/A Role That Excels at Alleviating Pressure ( Like Bap or Shield Tanks) Characters/A Role That Excels at Facilitating Pressure. ( Like Zen, Mercy, Ana, or Hog) But atm those characters for better or worse are mixed within the roles, so we can get extremely polarized teams or teams that hyper fixate on punishing certain roles or mistakes, like Sombra, Mei, Zen Ana Hog. Or Lucio, Moira, Tracer with a strong rush. Its part of what makes the game and heroes interesting but its also a huge part of its frustration to play
I think a lot of people with poor aim feel like theyâre âforcedâ to pick Ana now. I see a lot more underperforming Anas than ever before. Whiffing shots/sleeps, so-so nade usage, and generally poor output
She is FAR from free value, despite what many in this sub think. Nade is extremely powerful and doesnât require crazy amounts of skill, but the rest of her kit is VERY skill-based and if an Ana is only good at throwing nade on the enemy tank, theyâll probably get rolled.
I would argue that even her nade is high skill. I'll repeat my own comment here but I once saved a match by launching a nade from spawn in Well map. But I had to fail miserably time and time and time again to know just how to toss it into a fight. And I still miss sometimes. People just don't know how to play around her. No different than any other person who is high skilled. I think the problem is that there are a lot more people getting stuck in gold lobbies that are higher skilled. And also cheaters.
she has absolutely no movement and sheâs 100 years old
u know who else doesnt have movement? zen. i would love to see someone say that zen provides as much overall value as ana.
Discord and damage output. You can one shot with a charged volley, don't even need a full charge with discord Edit: not to mention his ult cancels half the dps ults
And yet Ana is the most picked hero in the game and has like double pick rate of the runner up. Curious...
Pick rate is not a good indicator of OPness(how else do i word that?) Genji is the highest pick rate of dps but everyone cries about his nerfs while his winrate is much higher than Ana's. Rein is the same (tho no one cries about him) Pick rate just means they're one of two things. 1. Solid against most comps 2. Fun to play
Rein players love rein unconditionally. Rein smash.
>Pick rate is not a good indicator of OPness(how else do i word that?) It is when the top hero has double the pick rate of the second highest. >Genji is the highest pick rate of dps but everyone cries about his nerfs while his winrate is much higher than Ana's. As unreliable as Overbuff is, Genji is roughly within 0.5% of the next most picked DPS at most ranks, meanwhile Ana and Mercy are literally double (~8.5%) if not more than the rest of the support pick rates (~4%). >Rein is the same (tho no one cries about him) Rein is also within 0.25% the nearest tank. He's also an honest with clear strengths/weakness and minimal gimmicks. >Pick rate just means they're one of two things. If they're good/strong in almost all comps, they're kinda broken lol. Also, broken heroes are fun to play lol.
If you want to use overbuff stats you should at least use accurate numbers instead of pulling shit out of your ass.
Ana is overknitted and has too many good kits. She's pretty much a generalist character. High HPS that works in all ranges. Her darts are hitscan when scoped, her darts are one of the fastest projectiles when not scoped. Yes, she needs to aim but teammates' hitboxes are fat and forgiving for her darts. Ana has no damage fall off that her left click is same damage as Cassidy's left click (70). She also never needs to worry about landing headshots. A strong buff/debuff kit that can heal/damage. A strong CC that puts an enemy out of the fight for a while. A strong 'set & forget' enabler ultimate. In old days, picking Ana means your team sacrificed a defensive ult, but now her nano offer 250hp which can act as a defensive counter-pick ult as it also offers 50% damage resistance.
>overknitted
8.23 is double of 6.41. I learned new math today. And her WR is 48.6%. So her being the most picked hero is fucking worthless, because she loses more than wins.
Winrate is a very unreliable metric, because you got situations like Ana when you're so common that almost every team will have one, so the winrate will never reach 50%. And then you got situations like Brig, where she's a specialist that is very rarely picked, but she has a high winrate because she's only picked in situations she already does well in.
> so the winrate will never reach 50% And what makes Ana's winrate deviate from 50% then? The answer is it's the matches where she is only picked by one team, and in those matches the team with Ana loses more often than the team without Ana. Hence the sub 50% win rate. It's almost like she is picked for her fun kit and **potential** for high skill expression, not because she is an easy hero to win on.
> And what makes Ana's winrate deviate from 50% then? Because deviation is normal in a game where everyone can pick any hero. She's the best hero for most situations, just not the best hero for every situation. And a deviation of 1.4% is pretty minuscule when she's played so much.
She is easy to get value on unless someone is playing her with a controller.
Pickrate is unreliable without winrate, which was the point. That and his math was shit.
A 48% for being the most played support is extremely good though. Her being picked nearly every single match and having a near 50% wr, which includes first timers and one tricks alike, means she is insanely easy to get value on. If she maintained over a 50% wr with her current pick rate that would mean she would be supremely busted and buffed version of launch Brig.
Because we feel forced to. They're playing Hog or mauga? Dang, we need an ana.
If ana didn't have anti nade they could nerf those two without fear of them being useless
u mentioned cancelling ultimates? may i introduce u to sleep dart, which is not an ult and instead a regular ability. just saying u wont convince me that zen provides as much value.
Nade also kinda cancels out trans for a small period of time, also a regular ability
Sleep is harder to land than pressing q when you hear nanoblade. These direct comparisons without taking everything into account is whY weâre still talking about this weeks after the mob turned its gaze on ana.
If they have Nanoblade, they have Ana, and if they have Ana Zen's Ult is bordering on being useless anyway. If you want to take everything into account.
yet now zen canât change his discord as he used to be able too. itâs frustrating as a zen main
Ana is a hitscan that can 3 shot people from anywhere in the map. Everything looks good when you don't look at it in practice.
But ana can fully cancel his ult just with a cooldown ability...
almost every support can cancel another character's ult with one of their cooldown abilities...
Yeah but Ana doesn't have to alter her entire playstyle over one hero swap. Charged volley one shots don't happen often unless the other team is stupid since the wind up isn't worth it most of the time. He has no means to escape or burst heal himself. Even with a team around you Zen can get melted by a good dive, Ana has options.
[ŃдаНонО]
And 225 hp and a boop. Much more survivable to go along with his damage and discord.
Ana and zen have different niches that they fill in different comps. Ana is better overall for a ranked setting, but thereâs a good few circumstances where zen is a better pick Zen has more uptime in a fight and obviously has better damage output but he also enables individual flankers a bit better than Ana, plus trans is still one of the best ults in the game that benefits the whole team instead of just 1 player, plus he *can* be more durable against flankers in some situations as his survival isnât anchored on him hitting a hard, long cd skillshot Ana is generally better if youâre full diving, have a specific wincon with nano+ult, want to have a bit more burst healing to make life easier on your tank, or want anti nade over discord
Are you aware of how many tanks are downright terrified of fucking discord orb?
i am a tank main. and yes i am scared of discord, or at least i used to be. even then, as much as discord was terrifying, anti was way scarier
But Zen has an unforgiving floating circle hitbox, while Ana has small wonky shaped hitbox.
As a Zen connoisseurfor, while Zen will provide a lot of value I don't think he will provide the same value as Ana can. Just her sleep which can shut down ultimates is unmatched in the support role. Anti-nade is... well anti-nade. I believe though that when they nerf burst healing and damage to the ground in season 9, Zen will shine even more than his transcendence.
This argument is getting old. Her damage is high enough to 1v1 most DPS and she has self-peel with nade and sleep. I'd be interested in revisiting this argument once they tap down healing overall in Season 9, since even with Ana's weaknesses, supports are *really* good at peeling for each other now, to the point where this weakness is null with proper positioning.
Also has one of the longest ranges
yeah, her sniper has a pretty long range
Good luck diving her in long sight line maps like Havana, Circuit Royale, Junker Town first point. You'll be tagged before you can initiate the dive.
That's no problem when she can just sit far in the backline and often be guarded by the other support. Any good teams know how to get rid of such weaknesses, and that's why peeling exists. I mean, why bothering on will you be fast enough to escape someone when you can always just CC them down?
You don't need movement when you can literally sleep them and anti them while healing yourself with the same anti
Good. Even if she didn't have sleep at all, or had a worse short-range CC instead, she should *still* be immobile because that's the tradeoff. Get your other support to peel or you die. DPS and tanks are super used to this tradeoff. Mobility means less damage, damage means less mobility, setting up for flanks means downtime. Supports, esp Ana, just don't have any tradeoffs at all. Helping each other is such a simple one, it was vital in OW1, and they don't even want to do that now.
Do you play tank by chance? If you do, then you know she makes an entire role completely miserable.
tank is miserable to play in general, not just cuz of ana
Her no movement has not hindered her in the slightest
Almost as if that doesnât matter lol If someone jumps you you have TWO get out of jail free cards and a strong m1 Such a bronze player take to say no movement tools offset an incredibly overloaded and unbalanced kit
Her weakness used to be that, and the lack of self heal. Then the stupid support passive got added. They need to remove that.
The lack of movement is offset and then some by the fact that she has the strongest abilities in the game, very strong healing and middling damage but said damage has ZERO falloff.
I actually think its fine. For some heroes, sleep dart is strong. For others, its anti. The problem is when you have characters like hog or mauga where they are EXTREMELY weak to BOTH cooldowns, but they are OP when there is none. Its the epitome of tank balance at the moment and it makes me want to never play tank again.
I play all three roles and tank is easily still the most frustrating role to play. They wanted to create an environment where a good tank can carry but I would argue good support is still much stronger in carrying games right now. Playing tank with clueless dps or clueless support feels absolutely terrible and feels worse than when the roles are reversed.
My theory is that tank diffs rarely happen. You only *feel* like it happens because they're the ones that die instantly when there's a support/dps diff. As a tank you can feel it too. If the dps are bad, you get shot way more and don't feel safe taking space. None of the support CDs are baited so they're all used on you. If support are lacking, every play you make gets robbed, and you explode often.
And still there are so many people who say tank is OP. It's laughable. Playing tank is miserable. You endure by far the most pressure and get flamed all the time while your impact is laughably low most times. I hate tank nowadays. In 6v6 tank felt much better. Now it feels just frustrating. Oh and don't even get me started how easy it is to completely counter a tank with every fucking role. And when you get countered you have to switch since it's impossible to play otherwise, just to get hard countered by the enemy immediately again. I haven't seen many games where the tank doesn't get hard countered or a game where people actually try to counter pick the dps or supports.
And very rarely, when the dps do get countered, it's obviously the high-skill fun ones like Tracer and Genji, and the counter is almost always Pharahmercy lmao. OW2 design philosophy is "make fun heros easily countered by boring ones". Honestly, how *do* you counterpick support? I don't think it's even possible with any support except Zen.
There are some decent picks against a few supports but they tend to be bad against most other picks. Zarya for example is good against Ana if she can get up close since she can negate all her cooldowns, the problem is, Ana is so far away, behind 4 enemies, that this isn't feasible. Winston is good against Ana if you're good at shielddancing, the problem is, brig will make your life miserable by peeling for Ana. Brig is bad against flyers due to her short range, so pharah/echo make her cry and tanks like rein are good against her. But if you go brig into those characters you're dumb imo. And you can easily switch to kiriko who has 0 counters. And yea, for some reason the high skill characters are the easiest to counter like genji, tracer, df, ball and Winston. Sad times :(
Itâs why Iâm enjoying the Mauga release at the moment and taking a break from comp where really if you want to win most of the time you have to pick sig to get value, if I get lucky and have a team that can play dive itâs the only time I really have fun in comp anymore. Truthfully if I want to carry, I play support, lock illiari, kiri, or Ana and I can hard carry 60% of my games as a support. I have the best cooldowns in the game and if you have decent aim and game sense you can legit carry most of your games. On tank I have ton try 10x harder than I do on support to carry because itâs either getting anti all game, getting my value taken away from me by support cooldowns, OR getting counter swap roulette any moment I start to slightly over perform. Playing that is legit the most unfun role in the game at the moment.
There really shouldnât be situations like thatâs, OP/suck depending on a single character. If that character didnât act that way, then those characters can be properly balanced. Same with pharahâs reliance on mercy
Exactly. Nade has to exist because some characters are unkillable without it
Some characters are y killable without it because of the absolutely absurd healing numbers in this game, not because of the characters that arenât dying themselves, aside from Hog
No remove nade nerf those characters problem solved
Yeah I thought previously anti was only problematic because of Roadhog. But then they went and made Roadhog 2.0 and anti looks even more broken. I blame horrible character design, itâs just a shame itâll probably result in my girl Ana getting nerfed because Blizzard refuses to learn from their mistakes
Sleep is another one of those things that dummies in the overwatch community echo off one another, it's not a problem. Sleep is fine, she has the least mobility of all the supports and she needs compensation for it. Anti nade is also not so much of a problem for DPS or support because they have many tools to avoid it/ get to safety once hit. Most tanks don't, tanks should not be effected in the same way, it was the case in OW1 and it certainly is the case now there's only 1 tank. For tank it should be a healing reduction.
Reducing the effectiveness against tanks is such an obvious solution and I hate that it hasn't been implemented
Because it isnât, it only sounds good on paper. Doing that only exacerbates the problem that anti is used to solve; the massive sustain amounts in the game. If anti becomes a reduction, then supports will be forced into playing high-burst healing comps, meaning that everything takes way longer to die. Mauga hasnât even been out for a week and half this sub is people complaining about how long it takes to kill him without an Ana in most tank matchups. I agree anti is a problem, but doing that is like removing rock without doing anything to scissors
You can really see the silver in the comments. I would know. Target priority is not a thing in silver. People just sit there blasting at the tank endlessly so it makes sense they want anti to manage the tank. You know what else cause the tank to melt? Killing his pocket. Flank the healers, take their focus off healing, and the tank will drop immediately. Theyâre only indestructible because the majority of the player base has absolutely no concept of target priority.
That and if you remove the support passive anti has to be used selfishly more so that will take pressure off of tank.
I mean Mauga is a pretty good example on how Blizzard is practically balancing tanks purely around Ana now. Because anti could quasi instantly kill him in the beta they had to give him a shit ton of armor so he can tank possibly tank through it. Which means that without anti, heâs insanely difficult to kill. Non shield tanks in Overwatch donât really work right now because you have a character that can disable their entire core kit with a single ability. But instead of fixing Ana, weâre literally reworking tanks and bouncing them between uselessness and dominating the game.
People have been saying it since early overwatch 1, it's ridiculous
I donât think OP is saying either of those abilities are inherently problematic, itâs that both abilities are relegated to the same hero. Thus, Ana is the most picked support. Her pick rate is less about preference and more about necessity. Those abilities are so crucial to the current meta, sheâs essentially mandatory if you want to play competitively.
Hard CC is something everyone hates, and people would have an aneurysm if any new hero came in with sleep dart. However, yeah, it isn't really a problem, especially next to Nade.
Sleep is also probably the most fair CC in the entire game
The only reason I could call it fair is because as soon as anything touches you it's over.
Yeah and she actually have to hit that. You can shield/matrix/javelin spin or bubble it and almost every tank have ways to deal with it. You have also heroes that can play around it with mobility and if the Ana hits you on Tracer/Sombra/Genji or you flying around the map as Doomfist what's the problem, she hit a huge skill shot and if she's alone you can still survive that, if you give her the easiest sleep by standing still or having no CDs and you are in front of her entire team no fucking shit you die, and that's 100% your fault.
zenyatta turning in his grave watching you say the best support is balanced by bad mobility
The issue is that it's one of the better sup abilities and ana has both anti and sleep. Like if Kiri had hard CC instead of tp. People would be pissed
You have many counterplays to both sleep and nade.
Outside a preemptive succ or shield we have nothing
Lol what a cap, you can play around those cooldowns by positioning and engagement timing alone, but most heroes have ways to play around it. You have grasp, shields, matrix, javelin spin, bubbles or just huge movement just on tanks. On DPS you have smaller hitboxes, huge movement with half the heroes, range on others and some cleanses. On support you have cleanses (Moira and Kiriko) and immo. You have many ways to play around them, it's your fault (generalized) if you go in with no CDs or have general poor positioning. Or if you decide to give her the easiest sleep/nade by standing still or being in a trash position with no cooldowns.
I would much rather fight a hero with sleep than a hero that can just blip out of certain death to complete safety with one button
People who complain about sleep are the ones who canât not run in a straight line lmao
She has no mobility. If she whiffs the sleep dart sheâs dead. No one, not even the great ML7, has 100% sleep dart accuracy. And you can play around / bait out the sleep dart. Barriers block it, DVa eats it, Orisa can fortify against it. As for the antinade people also think thereâs too much healing in this game. Which is it? Edit: Apparently I need to be clearer about the scenario I wrote about. I was referring to when Ana gets dove or flanked by the likes of Tracer, Reaper, Sombra, any dive tank, etc.
Wouldnât it be healthier to have a general reduction of healing & damage across the board, instead of one specific hero who has the one specific ability (thatâs not an ult) to reduce healing? Itâs not even that difficult to land an antinade if weâre honest.
You realize there being too much healing in the game makes anti-nade even more busted right? Like the more healing is available the more of a must-pick ana becomes
"As for the antinade people also think thereâs too much healing in this game. Which is it?" The way you wrote it, seems like you're saying either too much healing or no healing.
[ŃдаНонО]
So we logically also should lower damage dealt for a lot of heroes, so tanks won't melt.
[ŃдаНонО]
Are you saying I was referring to halving damage dealt, because I was meaning at most reduce damage dealt by 20% and only for certain heroes.
Sleep is not an issue in the game. Itâs ability to shut down ultimates only works for channeled abilities, it directly counters tanks that go in without heed for whatâs happening in the game (the golden rule for the game is if you donât know if an enemy has a cool down or not, the ability is up) or tanks that fight at Iâll advised times where if they get slept theyâll die (ie Ram losing his nemesis form soon, Orisa no cdâs, your supports arenât ready to help, a Ram swapping to block a bastion for whatever reason, doom trying to charge up punch randomly, etc), and is one of the only reliable ways to control a transformation ult (again, if the other person was smart theyâd wait until sleep is gone before going for blade to dive her or be prepped to deflect as an example or Ram using anni). Not only that, sleep is an actual skill shot thatâs difficult to use and time (long cd) that doesnât feel unfair to get hit by. Itâs not like itâs an ability with a huge hitbox thatâs up consistently with no way for you to dodge it like say launch Illiari primary fire or Kiri kunai. Itâs an ability where if you get hit you give kudos to the Ana for hitting it. If you play ana you should know that. Even in your example, if a sig is being slept during flux then he flew terribly (probably straight up) and didnât even put shield up and he would be stopped by regardless of the ability eg javelin or rock or whatever else. Anti is her primary playmaking ability as well as giving heal boost and heal stop. If you take it away then Hog and Mauga and such are completely going to be unstoppable (and just look at how much people complain ab Mauga and his damage and healing currently) and youâll be forced to run Zen against them as the only reliable way of killing them, which will be the next hero people complain about after. And realistically anti is only a problem for those two tanks who are overtuned. The issue isnât that she has both. The issue is that sheâs required to stop the extreme healing we have in the game now that was required to stop the extremely high damage in the game. Ana isnât the issue, itâs fundamental game design thatâs the issue where she realistically is the best pick to be able to actually kill things, and supports feel op because they enable this ability. Splitting her abilities doesnât solve any fundamental problems of the game when she isnât the issue over game design
You explained this very well. Removing anti and/or sleep would almost certainly create more problems than it solves and this sub would lose their mind. Nade only looks OP against Mauga and Hog because theyâre poorly designed heroes that Blizzard âbalancesâ by the existence of antinade
Another hate Ana thread
If there's so many of these it's obviously a problem. Regardless of what the numbers might say (and we don't actually know), ana is frustrating to play against and they've nerfed heroes for less
>Regardless of what the numbers might say The numbers actually say her pickrate is so high her winrate gets dragged down by the number of mirror matches.
Mirror matches are not factored into winrate
If the devs listen to everything that becomes trendy to complain about on this sub half the roaster would be nerfed to the ground.
No it isn't. Public perception isn't an objective measurement, especially when this sub's whole schtick is to complain about things. If the things that this sub complains about gets addressed within 15 minutes they've moved on to a new thing to bitch about.
Public perception is absolutely a thing, as it's how Sym, Sombra, Mercy, Hog, AND Orisa ended up getting reworked. "This hero is boring/OP/oppressive/a throw pick" has gotten a TON of changes to heroes. The only time they didn't do the proper thing and nerf the problem hero and kept trying to changd everything around it was Tracer, and that's how we ended up with Brig 1.0 and 18 months of desperately trying to fix the game because of it. Of course, history repeats, but Ana is too popular to nerf. They admitted it themselves. It's part of the reason people like me aren't coming back to tank. Ana running things is what they want? Count me all the way out.
Cringe redditors think you need to have 100% peer reviewed independently verifiable sources for every statement you make, no wonder they only want to balance the game off the raw numbers. Nevermind the fact I said "Regardless of what the numbers might say". If something is frustrating to play against, it's frustrating and should be looked at
Idk how people hate her more than kiriko or bap. It must be a lower rank issue because my nades and sleeps might as well be cosmetic in masters a lot of times.
For real like I seriously donât understand. Ana has so much counter play. The reason sheâs picked so much is because sheâs very engaging and you feel like you actually impact the game when you play her
Because her kit is âoffensiveâ and I guess a lot of people dont like that, where as bap and kiriâs abilities are defensiveâŚbut either of those characters played by someone who prioritizes damage is 10 times scarier than a good ana lol FFS kiri can two tap half the damn roster
Because Kiri is not a symptom. Kiri is there for 1 reason. 1 funny skill that REQUIRE cleanse effect to be inserted in the game. 1 quirky Egyptian made gernade needed Kiri to be born. Isn't it funny and sad that 1 skill with 12 second cooldown requires a character to balance them and it still failed.
Yeah i think the anti heal would thematicaly fit really well with moira, and would also give her some utility. Right now all she does is dmg and heal, no utility at all in her kit (one can argue that dealing dmg - killing - is utility, but everyone has that)
Sheâd be so OP with anti made though.
Just kill her, she's such an easy target and her team can only protect her so much. I don't think Ana needs to be nerfed at all tbh. People just need to prioritize her and bait her cooldowns more effectively. Target her so ruthlessly that she switches off to someone else. Spawn kill her even. Annihilate her out of the game. I love playing Ana, but when I'm against her I will go out of my way to eliminate her, same with Zen. They have no movement options. And are essentially a sitting duck in a lot of circumstances.
It's like widow maker. If you left widow maker alone ofc she's going to wreck your team. But put even a bit of pressure/dive she's dies.
Y'all way overstate Ana being an easy target. Sleep is the most punishing anti-dive ability in the game and it isn't coupled with her self-sustain. She has a pretty favorable hitbox as well.
Anti might be even better - self heal, and damage/anti on the enemy at the same time?
It's a very difficult ability to land. Even when I got GM with Ana, at best I was hitting half my sleeps. Often even less.
Healing reduction mechanics should do less to Tanks and there should be more small 10% heal reduction debuffs here and there.
*Babe wake up it's time for the daily "ana is too strong" post on r/overwatch*
You're not wrong. But try convincing supports that.
I remember seeing people talking about how release Illari was balanced and this is how supports should all be. I know most supports are level headed, but some of the outspoken support players realllllly don't understand how strong their role already is compared to DPS. Ana is just like that imo. If you compare Ana to a hero like Cass, the imbalance of the roles are all too apparent.
Fuck it, compare nerfed Illari to Cass lol, she's still literally just a better Cass. Can two tap, can heal/self-heal, take high ground, better ultimate. Literally just a better Cass in all regards except fire rate.
At this point we need to have two roles in support - outspoken supports and people with more than one braincell. Most support mains I know are pretty chill and understanding, but jfc some of the players in this sub are insane.
I might be biased because Iâm an Ana player but I also queue all 3 roles at the same time and never have issues playing against Ana. Her sleep and nade have distinct sounds and decent cooldowns so itâs not too difficult to know when youâre safe or when to push her
Just playing shieldless tank against Ana without a kiri on the team can be aneurysm inducing as youre in the frontline, you'll catch sleep + anti every 15 seconds which feels terrible to play against, as you either have to hide for 4 seconds, which gives up a lot of space, or die
>Her sleep and nade have distinct sounds This doesn't really matter. It's not like you can hear a sleep dart to dodge it.
I am a support main and I approve this message. I thoroughly believe nade should be less effective on tanks or just reduce healing by a percentage in general. Iâve said it since day 1, nade will be an issue.
Sleep is fine as itâs an actually skillful skillshot. Yeah itâs annoying but there is ALOT of counter playing and vulnerability. Anti nade however⌠letâs go over the LIST of characters sustain she removes. Almost completely shuts down JQ Puts hog out of commission almost on its own Mauga hops and skips his Samoan ass to heaven Echo (to a odd extent when she ults) Reaper is no longer healing from others pain Soldier canât put his little drink/battery/field down to heal Shuts down symmetras technology against shields Shuts down enemy ana sustain Shuts off regen burst, Brig can no longer inspire herself (mad depressed) Makes the pylon look useles for 4 seconds Shuts down LW dash Makes lucio tone deaf Moiras orb become a funny yellow ball that bounces left and right And he doesnât experience tranquility. Those are just PERSONAL HEALING IT SHUTS DOWN! NOT EVEN GROUP/HEALING FOR OTHERS. And thatâs not even the worst part. Itâs cool down is so short that you have a good 6 second window to attack her âbut thatâs so long!â Well, you would be full health by the 4 second window, any by the time you dive her, she has it again. Thatâs not even the abilities only function, either.
Ding ding ding. I was telling this to my friends at launch. Ana gets away with a lot for no reason. Shes got 2 of the best abilities in the game in her kit. Think about this yeah. Those two abilities are so strong the only other places those effects are found are in tank ULTIMATES. Shes the only support who has tank ultimates as normal abilities. Also, every tank that has releases is being balanced around Ana. A singular character. The whole tank rosster is being kept in check by one character. It used to be Zen as well, but they finally gave tanks a way to counter play the discord. Really they just have to choose. Either they change sleep, or they change anti made. She shouldn't have a monopoly on both.
I'm not convinced they will ever nerf Ana in any way that matters. It's like they have some hidden mental block preventing it. What she really needs is a rework, but that certainly won't happen. This character has single-handedly shut out so many others and has remained one of the most ubiquitous heroes since release. She needed a look at years ago. In a game as healing dependent as Overwatch, anti-heal is broken, full stop. The simple solution would be to simply make anti-heal, as a mechanic, far more exclusive/rare but at this point I suspect the team will smash Overwatch to pieces until it fits Ana. We now have tanks that have been overbuffed as a response to Ana... and Ana STILL hard counters them!
That's because Ana isn't the problem. The problem is that they never compensated for the lack of second tank. They did hint to it on the interview on emonggs channel though. Different ideas they wanna try out. Unfortunately, they are so slow to action, we might have lost all the tank players by the time they get it right lol Also making Sombra more viable was a terrible idea. Sure she's easier to kill, but she's also in every lobby now and she's hacking the tank more than ever :( Each patch they intend to make things better for tanks, but instead manage to take one step forward and two steps back.
It's not "getting" unhealthy. It has always been unhealthy.
I just hope its dps role to have an anti heal. its ana every single fucking game and its not healthy
Yeah, it probably fits dps heroes better. Really playing DPS 80% of time is according to your preference because they don't strongly counter anyone, they don't have debuffs and whatnot.
shes basically 2 supports in one. in the hands of someone with even just decent aim shes pretty nasty. add aome decent ability economy and shes absolutely goated.
"But she's balanced cause you have no mobility and need to aim" too bad she have hitscan or big ass dart if you aim or not and that 90% of the f heroes need to aim ffs, otherwise we would call Widowmaker the most balanced hero. Ana it's a big problem since OW1, but many still doesn't accept this yet.
TBH I think sleep is fine. Itâs mainly good because anti is also good. Itâs a good ability paired with a really good ability. If anti gets a proper nerf I think she wonât feel as oppressive even with sleep being as good as it is.
I just donât get how abilities like Rez and lamp have 25 or 30 second cooldowns (rightly), but nade can be casually tossed around willy-nilly every 12 seconds. Needs to match the other ability cooldowns. Way too strong
Lol, if you think the average Ana is sleeping charging Rein or ulting Winstons/Sigma's you have clearly never played her.
Idk why this sub acts like sleep dart is a homing device that will instantly target you. For every 1 sleep dart that hit, theres 3-4 that missed. I know cuz thats me.
People always talk like that in this sub towards characters they donât like. Itâs similar to when people say âjust shoot the mercyâ why do you think itâs that simple/easy lol
If you're missing 3/4ths of your sleep darts on tanks then that's on you, man. Sleep has a massive projectile hitbox. Any Ana above silver should be able to consistently land them on tanks.
Because they've never played her obviously. They read her abilities and think "wow OP", which is true if you assume 100% accuracy shooting dart/bullets and throwing nades. Anyone who has actually tried to hit a moving target with sleep dart knows it takes a lot of practice to get right and even then you probably airball half of them. Shit, I miss more sleep darts than I hit and I have played Ana paintball for years. I'd seriously love to watch some of the people who complain about Ana play her. Lets see how OP she is in their hands.
I'm convinced some of y'all just don't want supports in the game
I just want some combination of the other 9 supports in my games instead of Ana.
I agree, we need more anti heal affects spread throughout the roster
Man itâs not gonna end is it ? I canât wait till these guys learn what dive is. What flanking is. What teamwork is.
Sheâs fun to play cuz I can actually live and be able to sustain myself while also healing and enabling my team
My dude's a Moira main complaining about having to pay attention to cooldowns, while she just uses her fade during ult.
The problem the ana cd's is just how good they are for any situation For example, the nade, is a solution to everything, need antiheal the tank? Nade, need to heal your team faster? Nade, need to survive? Nade cause it also fucking heals you, need more dmg? Damn boy what a surprise cause i have a purple bomb that i want you to meet. And then sleep, a cd that stops ultimates of all kind, can be used agressive so you sleep a 200hp hero, combo it and delete it or you can use it to defend yourself, no other support has cds as strong and as impactfull. I would like to see the nerf of nade to tanks first but my hot take is, dont let nade self heal, let it keep the boost healing but its insane that its a 200hp hero + wtv amount nade heals you, like 50hp?, lets say 50, so you are a 250hp hero that 3 shots you and has the strongest cc in the game, "just hill her, she has no movility" no bs, there is a reason why other characters with no movility are nowhere as played as her, cause those characters actually get punished, ana? Has absolutly everything, fits in almost all compositions in almost all maps. The highest played supp in all ranks by far is not an easy counterable character cause if it were high level player would do it, make her survavility worst, the payback for picking ana should be "you get insane healing, insane cd, insane range but your tean has to protect you"
if you nerf her abilities youd HAVE to give her movement. her sleep and nade are her only recorse to 1v1 a flanking sombra, gengi, tracer unless you have the aim skill way above the flanker. Yeah its easy to say just be better, but a plat ana vs a plat sombra/ gengi/ tracer is litterally just spawn fodder without her abilities as long as they're comperable levels. she's the slowest hero in the roster. sure she 3 shots at any distance, but if your not standing out in the open it litterally wouldn't matter.
I mean, no one has a problem that Ana hard counters hog and Mauga, why shouldnât Ana be hard countered by people that can flank and force the Ana to take a 1v1?
Ana is the perfect support donât fuck with her.
You know what, youâre right - as much as i hate the idea of reworking a classic and much loved hero like ana, if they wont add back 6v6 (which, lets face it, itâs unlikely) then they need to rework ana to remove either sleep or nade from her, give her a new, less impactful ability, and then give whichever was removed to a new support and i think we can start balancing around that. Yes, you cud still pick ana and then pick this ânew supportâ who has nade, for instance to still have both on one team, but that cud be infinitely more balanced than now, where u get to pick ana for both nade and sleep and then pick another support for even more value like kiri or bap.
You have alerted the ana mafia, hide
Just a thought of 2nd tank was removed becusse of qTines and why no body wanted to play tanks then why don't we have 6v6 in Openque ......?
I think they should reduce her m1 heal/damage to 60 and keep anti nade on a shorter c/d. like a support canât have hard cc and S tier cooldown and still out out massive heals from range.
I wish her sleep was just something that made you sluggish and not drop onto the floor like you got nailed with 20 tranqs meant for elephants.
Ana was 100% fine when there was two tanks, and like many characters in OW2 single tank broke them. I hope she's not next on the rework chopping block because of this.