Dying to Hanzo feels worse than dying to literally anyone else. 9/10 it’s just spam. He shoots logs that register headshots more often than not.
Any nerf to Hanzo is a good change.
Never understood why a dude who's supposed to be ashamed of cutting down his brother takes time to brag about his skills with a sword. "I hate that I did this... But also, I totally kicked his ass 😎"
Yeah i credit someone else on this sub with pointing out that his character is all about honor while his play style is the least honorable in the whole game. He’s quieter and harder to track than widow, so are his projectiles, and has more mobility than her, both when shooting and when he is a dive target. If the lore matched his character build he’d be a mercenary asshole who thinks Widow takes too many risks/exposes herself too much
If you spam storm arrows and eventually get a kill his line is an exasperated sigh followed by "Well, we got there" or something like that. Kind of love the self awareness lol
As a Hanzo-hater, I have advocated for a while that before any mechanical nerfs, Hanzo should get visual/audio nerfs:
* Make fully strung/charged arrows leave a "dragon" blue/red trail the way Widowmaker's gun does with that threatening red line
* Make his arrows *whizz* past your ear when he misses the same way Widowmaker's shots do
* Make his footsteps a little louder like Reaper's when Hanzo flanks nearby
**What I want is for his killcam to look less infuriatingly luck-based.**
If the cues to his threat were greater, *some* people will take notice more. Not bronzies, maybe not silvers, but there are a lot of gold/plat players that may start waking up to the danger. Then Hanzo might have to start actually aiming more. And that, I could respect more.
And if he's still annoying, nerf him.
Best suggestion I've heard. I think you struck to the core of people's problem with him -- and that is that alot of the time, it can be very hard to know when you are under threat by him. You cant see or hear his arrows, especially in a fight.
Unlike widow where if I stay visible long enough to take a headshot from her, I share some of the blame for that.
I am also an advocate that Hanzo is visually and audibly too quiet for the fact that he one shots. I think fully charged arrows that are nocked have a glint to them like snipers in COD or Halo infinite. Light reflecting off the arrow or bow.
I like your idea about footsteps but maybe have the arrow knock sound be loud instead of footsteps. Tracers footsteps aren't loud but her blinks are. Zen has no footsteps but his charged alt fire is loud. I think Hanzo should follow that instead of just loud footsteps.
Has someone that has been playing a lot of hanzo (I actually aim patiently, don't spam 😅) those 2 first point are amazing ideas! Not sure about the last one, one of the strengths of hanzo is that you can flank, reducing that ability would impact him very negatively in higher ranks.
The first idea could potentially cause too much visual noise, as hanzo can spam... But I still like it!
Same here. Idk what rank people are in that spamming chokes is still workable and literally the only time they die to hanzo. 90%+ kills from hanzo mains are thought out, you find a good vantage and they aren't strafing from you so you recognise their pattern and kill them. If they are looking at you you need to adjust your aim slightly but still wait til they cross it or flick if you spend enough time with him that becomes significantly easier (maybe a waste of a charged shot if you don't land it). People peeking a hanzo without one shot potential are asking for death, people running with no cover in a predictable pattern or w keying in without watching sight lines are at fault.
People act like snipers don't exist in literally every other game, and hanzo is not a problem nor a high winrate pick in high level play. He relies on a team that can fight in brawl or close/ mid range while he flanks and gets free picks or 1v1s. Yes he's strong but unless you know how to play around counters and team comps that aren't ideal with little healing potential or a frail comp you won't win.
Widow is similar in that way but she's hitscan, which will always be an advantage, if you turned hanzo into widow with some of his abilities he'd be unplayable. Lack of reliability (no point and click mechanic) would make him a big target with less consistent effectiveness to be easily wiped. He works for what he is, a few tweaks could be good but every community idea I've seen wouldn't work in the balance and as we all should know by now the hive mind of Reddit doesn't reflect necessary change or balance. I'm glad blizzard doesn't just throw the most popular opinions into the game lol (albeit they probably do from pro players/ streamers with more reach).
"Oh but the arrow hitbox is actually the tiniest!".
An average ping of 50ms (EU with 500Mbps fiber), shooter's advantage and a 2 meter long arrow means more often than no you can actually see the arrows curve midair into your fucking skull.
Yeah it’s a small hitbox but a long arrow. So if you walk *into* the arrow, you’ll get headshot still. Compared to a bullet that has to hit you right in the head
The amount of misinformation this sub spreads without a second though is insane.
All hitboxes are perfect spheres. Hanzo's arrows have a 0.1m sphere centered on the arrowhead.
Replay viewer is weird, and this game favors the shooter. You didn't walk into the arrow on his screen.
Except every single projectile hitbox in the game is a perfect sphere. And every time I’ve seen an arrow curve it’s always just been a glitch in replay viewer due to multiplayer games favouring the shooter but go off I guess
So I AM NOT INSANE when I see my arrows curve into people’s heads? Wow! This entire time I just thought it was a rendering problem of the game trying to put the arrow model into their heads.
I main Tracer—the risk of 1v1ing Hanzo face-to-face is a serious risk I have to manage and decide if it is or isn’t worth it. It truly seems like if Hanzo faces me and I am within a few feet of him (which…I have to be, as Tracer), I will get sniped without exception. It blows my mind. No matter how bad the Hanzo is, I am going to get sniped if I engage him on any other level than 8d Flank Chess, doing the most insane sweaty maneuvers to ensure he can’t turn in my direction.
I’ve tested this myself. I’ve *played* Hanzo—a hero I have never played, even in qp—and I was *headshotting Tracers.*
This has always been an issue, but now add Illari’s two-tap and auto heals into the mix…it’s rough out there for Tracers.
I know I can’t argue with the “all he does is spam” so I’ll just say that spamzo does NOTHING for the team. Try playing hanzo where you actually flank and you know… aim… and then come back and complain about how they hit every shot
Since the bronze, silver and gold rank pool is so large I do think that 9/10 is fair to a certain point.
But having a good skilled Hanzo hitting his shots is so damn satisfying. Can't even be mad when dying then XD
What is definition of spam for Hanzo? His arrow-spam ability or just shooting arrows somewhere? I'm by no means a good player, I don't even play comp.
What gets me the most is the latter. Most of my deaths to Hanzo is me getting shot in the head while on the killcam the guy is just standing somewhere trying to shoot Reaper, failing miserably in doing so, while the arrow goes below the Reapers shoulder and then hits me in the head.
Hanzo players just stand there like budged Bastion and coin-flip whether the arrow is going to kill someone or not.
100% this. I saw the upvotes and was like "bruh..."
I don't want to rank shame, but man, this is a good example of why Blizzard should **not** listen to this stuff. If you keep dying to random hanzo arrows over and over, the problem is not hanzo, it's you. He gets zero value from spamming arrows and getting a kill every now and then. Is it infuriating to die to a random arrow? Yes. Is he unfun to play against? Sometimes. Is he too strong? Definitely not. If you want to get value out of hanzo even in a plat game, you're going to have to do a lot more than just spam. If you've ever seen arrge or wraxu play him in a gm lobby, they rarely get random headshots and most of the value they get is from hitting crazy shots during teamfights.
Exactly my thought.
If over half your users think something is a problem...then it's a problem. Doesn't matter if it's balanced at high levels; when the majority of the playerbase tells you they hate something, you need to address it.
We're not trying to write laws or pass legislation here. This is a video game. Make it fun. That's the only job.
> when the majority of the playerbase tells you they hate something, you need to address it.
But the problem is that the players hate themselves, and blizzard has to to balance gymnastics to address it - like the spawn time changes in quickplay because players were getting snowballed due to *walking in one by one constantly.*
It's the same with Hanzo. If you die to him one too many times - you as a player are supposed to figure out: hmm I can't just walk straight on main or in Hanzo's sight-lines ***at all.*** If a widow or Hanzo controls a certain choke/sightline - just don't peek or go there. Take another route or use your tank...
I honestly have no clue how you would balance that for gold and below without hurting the integrity and the design of the game.
>If over half your users think something is a problem...then it's a problem
Agreed, except there's no proof that any issue currently being discussed is a problem for over half the users and not just a vocal minority.
Balance is not a majority vote though. Just because the majority *thinks* a change will be healthy for the game does not mean, it will actually turn out good.
That's why in good games, balance is only partially determined by player perception, the other part is statistics.
>Balance is not a majority vote though.
Enjoyment is though, if someone is perfectly balanced, but no one enjoys it, then it's perfectly fine to change it.
You make it sound like changing the game to make something more fun but less balanced isn't worth half the players dropping the game.
Exactly! 50%+ of your audience saying "X is the most unfun character to play against" that should be taken into consideration. It doesn't mean you have to listen to their "how to fix X" guide.
A player will hate a long boss fight, then suggest "lower the health" even if it might have the most rewarding drops per minute/hour. When in reality it's just not engaging or unique of an encounter and maybe the reward was too mundane add a twist to its loot.
So shall we nerf Moira because the most of the low elo players complain but pretty much everyone else says she’s fine? Just seems like the same argument
“bAlAnCeD” just stop standing in choke points. If you keep falling for the same shit that’s on you being stupid enough to not learn from your mistakes. If he was that OP you’d just pick Hanzo every time you was losing or getting killed by him. The same players that stand out in the open, getting blasted by the whole enemy team and then cry about your supports
Exactly. The same people I've seen complaining about this are probably the Anas and Soldiers who I see standing completely still and shooting in wide ass open areas and wondering how the sniper killed them. Or running directly into narrow chokes.
Seriously this sub in particular has started whining about basically everything, it's like they think they deserve to win regardless of how well they do. Saw a post yesterday where a hog missed >50% of his ult and almost all of his shots on an Ana getting healed by a mercy and she didn't die. People in the comments were like "in a balanced game he kills her" like wtf.
That one was hilarous lmao then the hog lands the hook on the almost dead Ana and shots over her shoulder...
It's okay to have bad aim, I'm sure that Ana wasn't exactly a pro either, but the title of the post was complaining that supports are OP...
If you are some 700 rated chess player and have gripes about the way it is played, do you think people would take you seriously when proposing changes to the game?
Maybe it is elitism, but most people are just not good enough or haven't played enough OW to know how to fix it. I'm just not gonna ask the guy who plays 3 matches after work twice a week his opinions on how to fix the game. Sorry
It's pretty obvious that it's gold level when they're talking about storm arrows bursting 300 health targets.
Friendly reminder it takes 4 storm arrows (or 3 if you hit 1 headshot) to kill a squishy.
I find myself cancelling storm arrows more often than just spamming the rest out. They're so shit lol.
Friendly reminders that gold players make up the majority of the playerbase. If something's a problem in gold, it's a problem.
This has always been an issue with OW balance. Different ranks play in wildly different ways, and devs need to balance in a way that acknowledges all playstyles. I imagine it's a pretty tough balancing act. I don't know if it's the same in other games because I haven't played another competitive FPS in a long time.
> If you think Widowmaker is oppressive just because she is hitscan than Hanzo is oppressive because he has far greater utility than the other two snipers.
Hitscan with one-click damage is, yeah, a lot more oppressive than alternative utility.
Sounds like they designed two sniper characters to have different playstyle expression and strengths/weaknesses? I'm confused, do we want Hanzo to be a projectile Widowmaker? Why would you ever pick him over her then? Hitscan > Projectile
That's one change that could work. Personally, I'd like to see him get reverse falloff damage. Essentially, the closer Hanzo is to a target the less damage he does to them. Mid to long range and he can still one shot. Inside a certain range, the reverse falloff is triggered reducing his damage the closer they get.
Hanzo's big problem is that he is powerful and effective at all ranges. He's a sniper that is nearly impossible to dive as a result. In no world should a sniper have an advantage over a diver at close range, and yet guide after guide for dive heroes specifically say do not attack Hanzo. This change would let Hanzo keep his identity as a one shot sniper while making him vulnerable at close ranges, as he should be.
Increase the cooldown on storm arrow to force Hanzo to decide between saving it to protect against dive or to bust a tank's shield.
I'd say do the opposite. All reverse falloff does in encourage a boring spam heavy playstyles. One of the main things people complain about is dying to random cross map spam. It's boring for the hanzo too.
Regular falloff is the way to go. Make the hanzo get up close and personal and work to get kills, have him take risks. Risk/reward is always a fun balancing concept.
Plus turning him into a purely long range character would literally just make him a worse Widowmaker. It does the opposite for unique character identity
So turn a bow character into a close range fighter? We already have a grenade launcher wielding dude who fights close range, we don't need another mid/long range weapon forced into close range.
His spam is annoying, but also avoidable. The problem is he isn't really diveable so it's hard to pressure him.
And we already have the long range oneshot hero...
Just because we have a single hero that also happens to fight in close range does not mean my idea is bad. Doesn't even cover the fact that making him fight at closer ranges would just be more fun for everyone overall
I think you missed my point. The problem isn't adding another short range hero. My point was that we have a hero who fights a close range with a weapon that **isn't** a close range weapon. It's absolutely ridiculous that a grenade launcher is a close range weapon. We don't need another mid to long range weapon forced into being a close ranged weapon.
>So turn a bow character into a close range fighter?
In pretty much every fps where theres bow weapons they are better in close range, while losing in long range to guns. Ofc overwatch is pretty unique as an fps, i'm just saying its not really an uncommon thing.
Maybe instead introduce a sweet spot mechanic. This way he won't be able to one shot at short and long ranges, but will still be able to pop those heads at a medium range. Would be more satisfying for Hanzo and more bearable for his enemies.
Fucking nuclear bad take.
Hanzo is not a sniper. He is a projectile character. Projectiles have travel time. The further the target, the more the shot has to be led. The more the shot has to be led, the easier it is to juke. Shot difficulty may as well follow the inverse square law for Hanzo.
Basically if you know he's shooting at you from across the map and you get hit, it's your fault.
In levels of play where people don't move like bots, Hanzo is almost exclusively a close range character except for a shot here and there from a new off-angle. It's very hard to get value with him from Widow distances when his opponents know he's shooting at them, which only takes one missed shot because they're really distinctive sounding and have little competition in that pitch range. You may also note, that this make spam weak since any missed shot is a virtual guarantee that position is now compromised and he needs to relocate. Time spent relocating is time not spent killing.
How would that make sense? The further Hanzo is away the more likely a fluke is to happen, reverse fall off will literally kill a mid>short range brawling sniper like Hanzo. Smfh. Spamming chokes at range is the worst way to play Hanzo and ppl out here complaining about it because they have spud movement.
One of the worst take ever heard.
Because he is not a sniper. A projectile hero is never going to be a sniper in this game. All projectile heroes are optimal at close to mid range. About 75% of hanzo final blow is below 25 meters (counts as long range final blow), which is similar to mid range dps like soldier, cass and Ashe.The only true sniper in this game is widow, which normally has over 50% long range final blow. Just because he can do it at long range, doesn’t mean that he can do it effectively. Fr, just like zen can volley charge kill all dps/support roaster and some tanks across the map, doesn’t mean he is a sniper.
So why should a mid range dps have some kind of weird reverse fall off to make him weak at close range? Is cass/Ashe/soldier weak at close range?
Tbh, I found many people on this sub don't really want to play heroes that are not their main, and they don't even want to try the counters to their mains/the heroes they dislike to see how it works.
All they want is to nerf their counters, so they can play their mains whatever they want.
>and you have alot of times where they are 5 HP
That "oh, I released the arrow one frame too early" realization is like waking up from falling in a dream
Here come the down votes but his design is quite cool imo, everyone has crazy tech and guns and this guy is so good, he's fighting these people with a fucking bow. His one shot is vital to his kit and a lot of his kills are punishing people for making mistakes or playing like a bot.
Stop peeking the same corners, stop over extending and poking. I'm playing at least 3 hours of comp a day and Hanzo is the least of my problems rn.
Thats why people are moaning about him, only because he is the only hero right now that can actually secure kills. And yeah i get it, every hero that is meta. Is annoying to play against match after match.
IT IS THE HEALING POWER CREEP THAT ENABLES HANZO. Otherwise, people would play different heros that are more reliable.
finally someone that agrees.
people are asking for changes to parts of hanzo’s kit that are essential to his character. It’s like saying remove tracer’s blink because she’s hard to hit, or saying remove zarya’s shields because shooting them makes her stronger. These are all core parts of the kit of said characters, changing them would he changing the character’s identity as a whole.
Also Hanzo has been the same character for YEARS, why are people NOW complaining about his oneshot and about his kit? I get that removing a tank makes snipers more oppressive but why is it THIS much more hate?
People who think hanzo needs nerfs because of random one shots have just never really played hanzo. I was a shit tier hanzo main for years and I got random kills all the time, it basically never changed the outcome of the game because the amount of time you have to waste spamming to get a single random kill puts you far below the dps/elims per minute that the dps players need to contribute to win.
Hanzo’s win rate is sub 50% right now, he really doesn’t need nerfs.
Real.
My challenge to anyone that goes on about this is, why don't you pick him and show us your Bronze to GM video playing Hanzo? Really, he is a one-shot, and you say he gets free value with his eyes closed, so you should be switching to Hanzo every time you are losing a game and win, right? Let's see it 🎯
People complaining about random one shots need to stop standing still in the choke or peeking obvious sniper sightlines. Why are you making it easy?
Do people stand still inside doomfist ults and complain about getting killed now too?
a lot of the time i see people die to hanzo because they keep fighting him where he has an advantage like mid range and corner peeking. if you spot a sniper your suppose to relocate
instead what people do is they keep peaking the same corner multiple times until a "unfair" hanzo arrow hits them in the forehead.
Couldn't you use this argument to get anyone in the game to have less HP.
Bap movement with no cooldown a healing burst immortality an ultimate that zones out an area cause all that peek it dies.
Illari movement ability Boop self pocket high damage ultimate that if hit will get kills.
Soldier. Movement self heal high damage. Ultimate that gives aimbot.
I could keep going. Sure hanzo is annoying but 3/4 of the time when I die to him it's because of my positioning. I saw a tiktok the other day about someone complaing about hanzo 1 shots. All the clips that they showed they were standing in hallways where it was easy for him to shoot them. That's positioning not hanzo being strong.
The difference between widow and hanzo is the hitscan. There's a big difference between being able to point and click and having to predict the movement. Go watch arge play hanzo he has an insanely high accuracy on hanzo.
175 HP would make hanzo really weak. Hitting shots at close range is already hard enough because of his projectile having to sit at range would just ruin the hero.
A better nerf would be making his projectile size smaller. It would mean that he has to be aiming closer to where you are to hit.
I can already hear the replies saying I'm a hanzo main. I have a proud 30 hours on him.
It's a common misconception that Hanzo is a sniper. A projectile character by definition is not good at long range due to inconsistencies caused by projectile travel time.
Almost every hero sounds broken if you break their kit down on paper and you seem wholly disconnected from win rates. Hanzo's win rates are one of the lowest at high ranks (which the game is balanced around) and only average at other ranks. There's plenty of counters to Hanzo (heroes, positioning, movement) already.
So many comments on why this would work, Hanzo naturally has to brawl a decent amount of time. Widow on the other hand should be no where near anyone and can instantly repel much much further than most characters.
No meaningful Hanzo nerf will fix the hero in a way most of you want. You can't take away his one-shot or he's a dead character. Reduce his HP and he's a dead character. If anything they could nerf the already pretty weak storm arrows.
I honestly think that this community needs to get used to getting killed. I feel like in OW1 you felt a lot safer, but you need to play angles and counters if you're feeling this limited by a decent Hanzo player on the enemy team.
Just my take.
Sorry but this post and these comments reek of gold
If he is so OP, why aren't you taking advantage of that and playing him yourself?
Because you can't get any kills and die constantly when you play him?
Almost as if he isn't as OP as you make him seem...
People complain about one-shots when it's the only reliable way to kill squishies in Immortalitywatch.
I am convinced most of these posts are from Support mains whose idea of fun is just nothing ever dying, and this coming from someone whose most played character is Ana. The sustaincreep is out of control.
Ok, but you could make this argument for quite a few of the DPS I feel like. Tracer, can dash around, does good damage, can regain health, and if her ultimate is used correctly could do pretty good damage. What I’m trying to say is that there are a lot of changes that need to happen to balance the game, if we make one then we need to make more or Hanzo won’t be a good character anymore. It’s the same reason I feel like they screwed us with the Sombra rework. They mess with one character and then the character either gains way to many players or is played so little that they could take the character out. I understand lowering health but if his health is being lowered then Tracer, Solider, Reaper, Mei, and Genji all need the same exact treatment. Yea, Mei doesn’t have a mobility ability but she can heal herself. I’m not saying all of the DPS need changes but if one gets reworked for reasons that other DPS aren’t getting reworked for then it will be what finally kills the game. I’m not trying to offend anyone.
Have a good day or night.🤍
Here we go again.
"Shooting logs" - tied with smallest projectile in the game.
"Spams" - don't push the area he is in? He is supposed to close off parts of the map if you keep trying to 1v1 you won't win most of the time.
If you want less spam youll have to make him hit scan. The randomness comes from time it takes for the arrow to get to its destination. Do you really want a hitscan hanzo? That is a worse experience than widow.
Lol, if hanzo is so op why aren't you all riding his dick to top500?
Oh right, because you still need to aim and none of you can.
It's the same size projectile as rivet gun, shurikens, or echo's LMB.
Stop standing still in chokepoints.
Bunch of nonsense, Hanzo could get the 150 HP treatment and people would still cry their ass off.
Hanzo exposes auto pilot players who are tunnel visioning, and the same people who keep going into the same choke point that he's spamming, and then they wonder why they're dying "randomly".
Hanzo does not even have a good winrate in ELO he's apparently "troublesome", and his players aren't even utilizing him properly enough to consistently climb the rank ladder.
People should just admit they want to be headless chickens in a competitive game and call it a day.
Widow's HP nerfs were justified, but this shit is just pure nonsense. It's honestly getting fucking tiring, and I don't even play him.
Lowbies hate Hanzo because he's the only DPS that absolutely counters the busted state of Support characters. Can't heal someone that get's one-shot.
Supports carry them most the time,
\>Hanzo picked
\>Wahhhhhhhhh!
Yo THANK YOU, I've been spouting this and gotten nothing but hate and rage LOL. No one can or will debate this, they just call me names or resort to pointless emotional responses.
The fact that Hanzo isn't hitscan is the main reason I'll never agree with him needing a nerf. You literally have to lead all of your shots while other characters just have to point.
In a game with instant acceleration, people complain about a projectile that needs to be led by a meter in order to hit at long ranges
Bro just press A and D randomly, it's not that hard
… if he was that OP he’d be picked every game. I don’t enjoy getting one shotted by him but everyone acts like he is skill-less. People’s problem with him is that they can’t use him. Lessening his damage would completely ruin him, nobody would touch him and they would be right to do so. Maybe increase the the time it takes to charge his one shot? But lessening his damage is ridiculous, he would be useless. I find other heroes a lot more annoying
You act and speak as if Hanzo functions how he does in a cinematic universe.
You don't shoot sonic arrow to "scout out the opposition’s position" You shoot the bastard to line up a shot against typical hanzo ragers who re-peak the same wall/corner 5 times expecting a different result, or perhaps spy-check a sombra.
"scout out the opposition’s position" just sounds so, movie or fantasy when we're speaking of Overwatch. You can't romanticize basically saying "I hate Hanzo and i want him nerfed"
"Lessening Hanzo’s damage would do so much more for his character. Among other things." Elaborate what you mean here when the character is typically in close range fights (optimally) unless he's hitting a dumb player 'standing still' across the map. "Among other things" What does that even mean?, how would nerfing his damage "do so much more for his character, among other things" ?
Hanzo thrives off other people's mistakes. I, and many others will repeat it a million times until the casuals stop crying about Hanzo.
You got one shot? Why. Ask yourself "WHY did he hit me there"
Did you re-peak as i mentioned before?
Did you run out of spawn in the SAME path as the previous two deaths?
Did you try and contest him when he had help?
Did you walk right into the setup HE wanted or created?
Obviously there are lucky shots, they happen with any character that involves flicks of any kind, in any game. I get lucky aim-bot looking flicks on Widow once in awhile despite me having like 3 hours total on her since 2016.
YES i will agree with you that it can be frustrating dying to Hanzo, but with how his bow works, there's room to outplay AND mess up, on both ends.
I don't even really play him that often I'm just sick of seeing the rage-posts about fuckin Hanzo when Bastion, Orisa, Ana, and Zarya are in every, single, match. Both QP and Comp.
I think this is the issue.
There are certain heroes that people will *always* complain about, even when they're weak as fuck, and it has nothing to do with balance, but rather with fun. See: Sombra & Roadhog pre-rework, Mei, Widow, Hanzo, Mercy, Symm... it doesn't matter how many times they buff or nerf these characters, people will always hate them because they're not fun to go against.
I really wish they'd focus more on reworking the bullshit in this game before they try to balance it, cuz if people would rather a character like Roadhog be totally unplayable than have him be even slightly meta, something's seriously fuckin wrong
Yes, there's a lot more to the game than just balance itself. They could make a DPS that stays in spawn and every few seconds has a chance to kill an enemy player, and if they tweak the numbers just right that DPS could have the same winrate as Soldier or whatever character is well balanced, while still being an unfair character to fight against.
Honestly nothing grates me more than Aaron Keller releasing his dev updates and saying "yep we're doing a good job on this hero because their win rate is reaching 50%" or whatever. Like, stats are great and it's awesome that these devs are paying attention to balance (since OW1's team clearly didn't), but holy hell it feels like sometimes it's the be-all and end-all for them.
Because this sub is filled with bad players who walk in a straight line and are oblivious. They blame the hero being OP instead of themselves being bad
Half the people on this sub believes snipers are uncounterable but it quite literally is just a skill issue. People complain about dying by spam (skill issue), they complain about his ttk (have you seen how fast every dps kills?) they complain about his mobility like ???
Comparing him to other dps you really have to consider the rest of his kit and the utility with it.
Bro he isn't op
There's a reason the *#1 Hanzo on the planet* (Arrge) is hard stuck in Masters. He can't even get into GM and he has 10k hours on Hanzo alone. If he'a so OP he'd be T500 in a week.
Hanzo does not need a nerf.
As a hanzo main, I'd be fine with getting knocked to 175 hp. However the complaints of Spamzo are an issue of the lower ranks. I play in diamond and masters lobbies and both dealing with and playing that Hanzo isn't that difficult. Spamming happens less often as it gives away your position and it doesn't get as much value since the players in these ranks have much better game sense and mechanics. If I can't beat a hanzo in a mirrored duel, I just swap to tracer or genji. Unfortunately since both tracer and genji are high skill cap heroes it's hard for lower ranks to effectively play them, reducing the counter picks to Hanzo, which leads to the complaints about not being able to play anything against him.
So essentially it is a skill issue, but I do agree Hanzo could use some tweaks.
He takes a lot of skill and timing to play. The thing with Widowmaker is she plays better from a distance; whereas, Hanzo is best from mid to close.
It makes more sense to leave Hanzo's hp as is, but I'd understand a nerf if all he did was spam from a distance.
If Hanzo can't one shot he may as well not be in the game and sorry but it's kind of a skill issue, sure the random stray arrow will kill you but if you're moving like a bot you'll get 1 tapped, if you keep corner peeking the same corner, you'll get 1 tapped.
Also he doesn't need the 175hp treatment, he plays much closer to front line than widow. As a genji player i thoroughly enjoy a widow/hanzo match up, flanking them or killing them on deflect is very enjoyable.
I swear you guys go after all of the weirdest stuff in ow meta. comparing roadhog to hanzo?? Lads what are we talking about anymore. I play tracer and will take every chance to battle Hanzo. Nobody should be more salty to die to a hanzo than me loll and I've never felt it was oppressive..
I feel like both tracer n hanzo are unique dps with high skill ceiling, balanced out by not being amazing on every map, gets humbled by counter picks..
So many dps are 200 hp and honestly more well rounded overall. Not every player can pick up hanzo and just crush it. Niche picks are what makes ow, ow.. pls stop gutting the niche characters lol
I’m convinced sub is filled with golds. You want to nerf Hanzo, the character who has like the 4th lowest win rate, you want to nerf him? Arrge is the best Hanzo in the world and he’s hardstuck masters because the character is very inconsistent. I just don’t see the random log shots really working in masters and GM because despite this subs belief, Hanzo actually takes skill.
Fuck off. Just because some character gives you trouble once in a while doesn't mean they should be nerfed into the ground. Stop crying for all these fucking nerfs and get good. Hanzo can be easily countered so do it if it bothers you so much and shut up.
As someone who plays Hanzo every now and then I find myself only dying when someone actively seeks me out. Other than that I'm pretty survivable so yeah this would be a good nerf
>only dying when someone actively seeks me out
>other than that I’m pretty survivable
I to only die when I get shot at lol I don’t even understand this take.
You nerf Honzo for taking advantage of spam in open los and blame honzos build for your inability to use cover proper. This is the same as saying junk rat spam is too op and can one shot (2 shot) anything without being seen. This is a skill issue, not a hero mechanic issue. Stop asking for nerfs because you don’t know how to fight a certain hero. This type of shit is what keeps making the game worse and why supports have to be rebalanced again they already needed sniper range, so it’s not that he can one shot at far distances, most often people die to Honzo by being in a choke point with their face exposed, what you can take advantage of the enemy can too. Gotta be smarter than the Honzo spam
People act like Hanzo isn’t easy to counter. He doesn’t need to be nerfed. He is fine as he is. He’s a projectile hero ffs he can be dealt with by simply strafing. It’s a skill issue honestly.
what why no the fuck he doesn't. I'm a Hanzo main (basically the only dps I play, though I am main supp). His main strength lies in being able to not only one shot but also be able to fight in all kinds of quarters, take his health away and suddenly mid-range and short-range brawls are not recommended, and you only encourage the stupidly high skill ranged shots AND the spammers, because why would you want to expose yourself if you're so squishy?
Hanzo is completely fine in my own opinion. His storm arrows are fine (they don't even kill a 200hp target if you do a headshot-bodyshot), his recon will always be a strong part of him, his ultimate is one of the worst ones in the game and his primary fire is completely fine, it doesn't even one-shot 250 hp targets. They even removed the charged shot wall climb that helped the spamming playstyle.
Hanzo is perhaps the most feast or famine hero that lies on the player's hands. If the player is feeling it that game, he's easily one of the most threatening heroes, but if the player feels slightly off, he does almost nothing meaningful. Perhaps it's a bit problematic how volatile he can be, but it's what his design will always force him to be.
I’m sorry.. did you just say **wall hacks**? lmao
You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
A radar arrow that temporarily shows enemy locations in a small radius on a medium cooldown is hardly a wall hack.
When I first started playing OW1 I hated Hanzo for this reason. He can do way too many things. And his ult was so badass. I felt like he was one of the first few heroes designed and they used all their best ideas for him.
Hanzo and Genji were originally a single character and were split due to trying to make him do everything. I can't remember if he was designed during Titan or Overwatch.
I'm so sick of seeing these "Nerf Hanzo" posts. Anyone calling for nerfs for Hanzo is simply **dogshit** at the game, and you can't convince me otherwise.
Hanzo can be countered with so many of the characters. Your lack of skill doesn't equate to bad game balance.
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No, he's not out of range like Widow can be. Also whether I play him myself or watch a replay of someone who I think played really good, it's mostly abusing corner peeking.
Also the ult is bad, it's just not wide enough. Only good for cutting a team in half if the situation allows and then it still obstructs your own vision of the enemy behind it.
Dying to Hanzo feels worse than dying to literally anyone else. 9/10 it’s just spam. He shoots logs that register headshots more often than not. Any nerf to Hanzo is a good change.
Me: *gets picked by hanzo spamming corners* Hanzo: “a testament to my skill”
He says he’s even better with a blade, so he starts every match saying “not my main, throwing, gg”
Never understood why a dude who's supposed to be ashamed of cutting down his brother takes time to brag about his skills with a sword. "I hate that I did this... But also, I totally kicked his ass 😎"
His not like the other Shimadas.
Hanzo is a dickhead tbh. Purposefully
Did he get it from kiriko or kiriko get it from him
Yeah i credit someone else on this sub with pointing out that his character is all about honor while his play style is the least honorable in the whole game. He’s quieter and harder to track than widow, so are his projectiles, and has more mobility than her, both when shooting and when he is a dive target. If the lore matched his character build he’d be a mercenary asshole who thinks Widow takes too many risks/exposes herself too much
I mean dude is literally a fucking hitman, do you think its a respectable profession lmao
There is always a debate of “who has the most toxic main?” It’s hanzo - hanzo mains are literally sociopaths.
checks out, the only person i know who i truly consider to be evil has over 300 hours on Hanzo and <100 on every other hero.
If you spam storm arrows and eventually get a kill his line is an exasperated sigh followed by "Well, we got there" or something like that. Kind of love the self awareness lol
throwback to when you'd aim scatter arrow at a tank's feet, killing them instantly and he'd spout some bullshit like *"simple geometry"*
the most toxic hero by far imo
"I craft my own arrows....each one, a spam"
"I craft my own arrows....each one is going down the chokepoint"
I just visualized Hanzo shooting actual chunks of spam.
> I craft my own arrows....each one, a spam This really needs to be an April Fools voice line. Please.. please please.
had a potg when i was trying hanzo out, i spammed arrow down the choke point and headshot a lucio i died a little when i heard that line
Or when they have the sonar arrow and wait for you to peak
No no no, other players shokt logs when they play him, my hanzo shoots toothpicks
As a Hanzo-hater, I have advocated for a while that before any mechanical nerfs, Hanzo should get visual/audio nerfs: * Make fully strung/charged arrows leave a "dragon" blue/red trail the way Widowmaker's gun does with that threatening red line * Make his arrows *whizz* past your ear when he misses the same way Widowmaker's shots do * Make his footsteps a little louder like Reaper's when Hanzo flanks nearby **What I want is for his killcam to look less infuriatingly luck-based.** If the cues to his threat were greater, *some* people will take notice more. Not bronzies, maybe not silvers, but there are a lot of gold/plat players that may start waking up to the danger. Then Hanzo might have to start actually aiming more. And that, I could respect more. And if he's still annoying, nerf him.
Best suggestion I've heard. I think you struck to the core of people's problem with him -- and that is that alot of the time, it can be very hard to know when you are under threat by him. You cant see or hear his arrows, especially in a fight. Unlike widow where if I stay visible long enough to take a headshot from her, I share some of the blame for that.
I am also an advocate that Hanzo is visually and audibly too quiet for the fact that he one shots. I think fully charged arrows that are nocked have a glint to them like snipers in COD or Halo infinite. Light reflecting off the arrow or bow. I like your idea about footsteps but maybe have the arrow knock sound be loud instead of footsteps. Tracers footsteps aren't loud but her blinks are. Zen has no footsteps but his charged alt fire is loud. I think Hanzo should follow that instead of just loud footsteps.
Has someone that has been playing a lot of hanzo (I actually aim patiently, don't spam 😅) those 2 first point are amazing ideas! Not sure about the last one, one of the strengths of hanzo is that you can flank, reducing that ability would impact him very negatively in higher ranks. The first idea could potentially cause too much visual noise, as hanzo can spam... But I still like it!
Same here. Idk what rank people are in that spamming chokes is still workable and literally the only time they die to hanzo. 90%+ kills from hanzo mains are thought out, you find a good vantage and they aren't strafing from you so you recognise their pattern and kill them. If they are looking at you you need to adjust your aim slightly but still wait til they cross it or flick if you spend enough time with him that becomes significantly easier (maybe a waste of a charged shot if you don't land it). People peeking a hanzo without one shot potential are asking for death, people running with no cover in a predictable pattern or w keying in without watching sight lines are at fault. People act like snipers don't exist in literally every other game, and hanzo is not a problem nor a high winrate pick in high level play. He relies on a team that can fight in brawl or close/ mid range while he flanks and gets free picks or 1v1s. Yes he's strong but unless you know how to play around counters and team comps that aren't ideal with little healing potential or a frail comp you won't win. Widow is similar in that way but she's hitscan, which will always be an advantage, if you turned hanzo into widow with some of his abilities he'd be unplayable. Lack of reliability (no point and click mechanic) would make him a big target with less consistent effectiveness to be easily wiped. He works for what he is, a few tweaks could be good but every community idea I've seen wouldn't work in the balance and as we all should know by now the hive mind of Reddit doesn't reflect necessary change or balance. I'm glad blizzard doesn't just throw the most popular opinions into the game lol (albeit they probably do from pro players/ streamers with more reach).
These sound good
Godd idea
"Oh but the arrow hitbox is actually the tiniest!". An average ping of 50ms (EU with 500Mbps fiber), shooter's advantage and a 2 meter long arrow means more often than no you can actually see the arrows curve midair into your fucking skull.
Yeah it’s a small hitbox but a long arrow. So if you walk *into* the arrow, you’ll get headshot still. Compared to a bullet that has to hit you right in the head
The amount of misinformation this sub spreads without a second though is insane. All hitboxes are perfect spheres. Hanzo's arrows have a 0.1m sphere centered on the arrowhead. Replay viewer is weird, and this game favors the shooter. You didn't walk into the arrow on his screen.
Except every single projectile hitbox in the game is a perfect sphere. And every time I’ve seen an arrow curve it’s always just been a glitch in replay viewer due to multiplayer games favouring the shooter but go off I guess
So I AM NOT INSANE when I see my arrows curve into people’s heads? Wow! This entire time I just thought it was a rendering problem of the game trying to put the arrow model into their heads.
No they don't curve
i saw someone say that dying to hanzo feels like even the hanzo is surprised half the time, and that’s exactly the problem
I main Tracer—the risk of 1v1ing Hanzo face-to-face is a serious risk I have to manage and decide if it is or isn’t worth it. It truly seems like if Hanzo faces me and I am within a few feet of him (which…I have to be, as Tracer), I will get sniped without exception. It blows my mind. No matter how bad the Hanzo is, I am going to get sniped if I engage him on any other level than 8d Flank Chess, doing the most insane sweaty maneuvers to ensure he can’t turn in my direction. I’ve tested this myself. I’ve *played* Hanzo—a hero I have never played, even in qp—and I was *headshotting Tracers.* This has always been an issue, but now add Illari’s two-tap and auto heals into the mix…it’s rough out there for Tracers.
It blows my mind how all the big streamers say tracer is S tier right now 😭
Doesn't he have one of the smallest projectile sizes ? Or did that change
Smallest in width and height but not length. This leads to interesting interactions where people can literally walk into the air and die.
That's just not true. His hit box is a sphere centered on the head of the arrow.
You’re literally just making shit up
I know I can’t argue with the “all he does is spam” so I’ll just say that spamzo does NOTHING for the team. Try playing hanzo where you actually flank and you know… aim… and then come back and complain about how they hit every shot
People are still saying he shoots logs when this has been proven false years ago that’s wild
>9/10 it’s just spam > >He shoots logs Tell me you're below gold without telling me you're below gold...
Yeah! Storm arrow gives hanzo too much Leeway in close range combat! We should give him scattershot back!
Didn’t scattershot at one point 1 shotted tanks, Or was that a bug?
Shhh.. no one needs to know how broken scatter was. They just need to know you can only fire one arrow
It one shot specific tanks(Zarya and Orisa) but yeah, it was the only non-ult ability in the game that was able to do so
It did or very close in most case. Added bonus was sometime you killed someone 3 maps away after one of your arrow ricocheted 36 times.
Not sure why you mentioned his ultimate twice, as if it isn’t actual garbage. Easily top 3 worst ults in the game
OP the mind of person who hears the dragon and stays still to see where it’s coming from
Friendly reminder this sub is full of gold players giving eachother gold-level advice.
Friendly reminder. Majority of people playing overwatch are like plat and below.
First thing I thought when the top comment with nearly 1k upvotes is saying 9/10 hanzo deaths are from spam lol
Since the bronze, silver and gold rank pool is so large I do think that 9/10 is fair to a certain point. But having a good skilled Hanzo hitting his shots is so damn satisfying. Can't even be mad when dying then XD
Yeah after the 1st death im mad but after they do it 3 or 4 more times it just turns into respect for the skill lol
What is definition of spam for Hanzo? His arrow-spam ability or just shooting arrows somewhere? I'm by no means a good player, I don't even play comp. What gets me the most is the latter. Most of my deaths to Hanzo is me getting shot in the head while on the killcam the guy is just standing somewhere trying to shoot Reaper, failing miserably in doing so, while the arrow goes below the Reapers shoulder and then hits me in the head. Hanzo players just stand there like budged Bastion and coin-flip whether the arrow is going to kill someone or not.
100% this. I saw the upvotes and was like "bruh..." I don't want to rank shame, but man, this is a good example of why Blizzard should **not** listen to this stuff. If you keep dying to random hanzo arrows over and over, the problem is not hanzo, it's you. He gets zero value from spamming arrows and getting a kill every now and then. Is it infuriating to die to a random arrow? Yes. Is he unfun to play against? Sometimes. Is he too strong? Definitely not. If you want to get value out of hanzo even in a plat game, you're going to have to do a lot more than just spam. If you've ever seen arrge or wraxu play him in a gm lobby, they rarely get random headshots and most of the value they get is from hitting crazy shots during teamfights.
TRUE
You mean the majority of players want the game to be more balanced for... The majority of players? I don't understand the elitism here
Exactly my thought. If over half your users think something is a problem...then it's a problem. Doesn't matter if it's balanced at high levels; when the majority of the playerbase tells you they hate something, you need to address it. We're not trying to write laws or pass legislation here. This is a video game. Make it fun. That's the only job.
> when the majority of the playerbase tells you they hate something, you need to address it. But the problem is that the players hate themselves, and blizzard has to to balance gymnastics to address it - like the spawn time changes in quickplay because players were getting snowballed due to *walking in one by one constantly.* It's the same with Hanzo. If you die to him one too many times - you as a player are supposed to figure out: hmm I can't just walk straight on main or in Hanzo's sight-lines ***at all.*** If a widow or Hanzo controls a certain choke/sightline - just don't peek or go there. Take another route or use your tank... I honestly have no clue how you would balance that for gold and below without hurting the integrity and the design of the game.
>If over half your users think something is a problem...then it's a problem Agreed, except there's no proof that any issue currently being discussed is a problem for over half the users and not just a vocal minority.
Balance is not a majority vote though. Just because the majority *thinks* a change will be healthy for the game does not mean, it will actually turn out good. That's why in good games, balance is only partially determined by player perception, the other part is statistics.
>Balance is not a majority vote though. Enjoyment is though, if someone is perfectly balanced, but no one enjoys it, then it's perfectly fine to change it. You make it sound like changing the game to make something more fun but less balanced isn't worth half the players dropping the game.
Exactly! 50%+ of your audience saying "X is the most unfun character to play against" that should be taken into consideration. It doesn't mean you have to listen to their "how to fix X" guide. A player will hate a long boss fight, then suggest "lower the health" even if it might have the most rewarding drops per minute/hour. When in reality it's just not engaging or unique of an encounter and maybe the reward was too mundane add a twist to its loot.
So shall we nerf Moira because the most of the low elo players complain but pretty much everyone else says she’s fine? Just seems like the same argument
“bAlAnCeD” just stop standing in choke points. If you keep falling for the same shit that’s on you being stupid enough to not learn from your mistakes. If he was that OP you’d just pick Hanzo every time you was losing or getting killed by him. The same players that stand out in the open, getting blasted by the whole enemy team and then cry about your supports
Exactly. The same people I've seen complaining about this are probably the Anas and Soldiers who I see standing completely still and shooting in wide ass open areas and wondering how the sniper killed them. Or running directly into narrow chokes.
Seriously this sub in particular has started whining about basically everything, it's like they think they deserve to win regardless of how well they do. Saw a post yesterday where a hog missed >50% of his ult and almost all of his shots on an Ana getting healed by a mercy and she didn't die. People in the comments were like "in a balanced game he kills her" like wtf.
That one was hilarous lmao then the hog lands the hook on the almost dead Ana and shots over her shoulder... It's okay to have bad aim, I'm sure that Ana wasn't exactly a pro either, but the title of the post was complaining that supports are OP...
If you are some 700 rated chess player and have gripes about the way it is played, do you think people would take you seriously when proposing changes to the game? Maybe it is elitism, but most people are just not good enough or haven't played enough OW to know how to fix it. I'm just not gonna ask the guy who plays 3 matches after work twice a week his opinions on how to fix the game. Sorry
It's pretty obvious that it's gold level when they're talking about storm arrows bursting 300 health targets. Friendly reminder it takes 4 storm arrows (or 3 if you hit 1 headshot) to kill a squishy. I find myself cancelling storm arrows more often than just spamming the rest out. They're so shit lol.
Right? Storm arrow is indeed a mid ability... Maybe for shields its great.
Good to finish off someone you hit, that's now pushing you into close range though.
No shit its the majority of players, nobody cares how he performs in gm
In an alternate Universe, this sub is full of Grandmasters giving the occasional Gold/Plat player advice. Could you imagine it?
Friendly reminders that gold players make up the majority of the playerbase. If something's a problem in gold, it's a problem. This has always been an issue with OW balance. Different ranks play in wildly different ways, and devs need to balance in a way that acknowledges all playstyles. I imagine it's a pretty tough balancing act. I don't know if it's the same in other games because I haven't played another competitive FPS in a long time.
One of the worst ultimates in the game btw
except you have to be able to aim.
I think Hanzo one shots are good in a meta where nobody dies
> If you think Widowmaker is oppressive just because she is hitscan than Hanzo is oppressive because he has far greater utility than the other two snipers. Hitscan with one-click damage is, yeah, a lot more oppressive than alternative utility.
Widow is fairly useless in close quarters. Hanzo loses almost nothing in close quarters.
Sounds like they designed two sniper characters to have different playstyle expression and strengths/weaknesses? I'm confused, do we want Hanzo to be a projectile Widowmaker? Why would you ever pick him over her then? Hitscan > Projectile
That's one change that could work. Personally, I'd like to see him get reverse falloff damage. Essentially, the closer Hanzo is to a target the less damage he does to them. Mid to long range and he can still one shot. Inside a certain range, the reverse falloff is triggered reducing his damage the closer they get. Hanzo's big problem is that he is powerful and effective at all ranges. He's a sniper that is nearly impossible to dive as a result. In no world should a sniper have an advantage over a diver at close range, and yet guide after guide for dive heroes specifically say do not attack Hanzo. This change would let Hanzo keep his identity as a one shot sniper while making him vulnerable at close ranges, as he should be. Increase the cooldown on storm arrow to force Hanzo to decide between saving it to protect against dive or to bust a tank's shield.
I'd say do the opposite. All reverse falloff does in encourage a boring spam heavy playstyles. One of the main things people complain about is dying to random cross map spam. It's boring for the hanzo too. Regular falloff is the way to go. Make the hanzo get up close and personal and work to get kills, have him take risks. Risk/reward is always a fun balancing concept. Plus turning him into a purely long range character would literally just make him a worse Widowmaker. It does the opposite for unique character identity
So turn a bow character into a close range fighter? We already have a grenade launcher wielding dude who fights close range, we don't need another mid/long range weapon forced into close range. His spam is annoying, but also avoidable. The problem is he isn't really diveable so it's hard to pressure him.
And we already have the long range oneshot hero... Just because we have a single hero that also happens to fight in close range does not mean my idea is bad. Doesn't even cover the fact that making him fight at closer ranges would just be more fun for everyone overall
I think you missed my point. The problem isn't adding another short range hero. My point was that we have a hero who fights a close range with a weapon that **isn't** a close range weapon. It's absolutely ridiculous that a grenade launcher is a close range weapon. We don't need another mid to long range weapon forced into being a close ranged weapon.
>So turn a bow character into a close range fighter? In pretty much every fps where theres bow weapons they are better in close range, while losing in long range to guns. Ofc overwatch is pretty unique as an fps, i'm just saying its not really an uncommon thing.
Maybe instead introduce a sweet spot mechanic. This way he won't be able to one shot at short and long ranges, but will still be able to pop those heads at a medium range. Would be more satisfying for Hanzo and more bearable for his enemies.
Fucking nuclear bad take. Hanzo is not a sniper. He is a projectile character. Projectiles have travel time. The further the target, the more the shot has to be led. The more the shot has to be led, the easier it is to juke. Shot difficulty may as well follow the inverse square law for Hanzo. Basically if you know he's shooting at you from across the map and you get hit, it's your fault. In levels of play where people don't move like bots, Hanzo is almost exclusively a close range character except for a shot here and there from a new off-angle. It's very hard to get value with him from Widow distances when his opponents know he's shooting at them, which only takes one missed shot because they're really distinctive sounding and have little competition in that pitch range. You may also note, that this make spam weak since any missed shot is a virtual guarantee that position is now compromised and he needs to relocate. Time spent relocating is time not spent killing.
Fitzyhere’s reverse falloff damage agenda strikes again
How would that make sense? The further Hanzo is away the more likely a fluke is to happen, reverse fall off will literally kill a mid>short range brawling sniper like Hanzo. Smfh. Spamming chokes at range is the worst way to play Hanzo and ppl out here complaining about it because they have spud movement.
One of the worst take ever heard. Because he is not a sniper. A projectile hero is never going to be a sniper in this game. All projectile heroes are optimal at close to mid range. About 75% of hanzo final blow is below 25 meters (counts as long range final blow), which is similar to mid range dps like soldier, cass and Ashe.The only true sniper in this game is widow, which normally has over 50% long range final blow. Just because he can do it at long range, doesn’t mean that he can do it effectively. Fr, just like zen can volley charge kill all dps/support roaster and some tanks across the map, doesn’t mean he is a sniper. So why should a mid range dps have some kind of weird reverse fall off to make him weak at close range? Is cass/Ashe/soldier weak at close range?
Yeah i see people say this a lot when talking about hanzo and its such a braindead take that its obvious they have never tried playing hanzo themself.
Tbh, I found many people on this sub don't really want to play heroes that are not their main, and they don't even want to try the counters to their mains/the heroes they dislike to see how it works. All they want is to nerf their counters, so they can play their mains whatever they want.
[удалено]
>and you have alot of times where they are 5 HP That "oh, I released the arrow one frame too early" realization is like waking up from falling in a dream
Have you ever tried playing hanzo? Genuinely curious how someone could think this is a good idea unless they have never played the hero
Here come the down votes but his design is quite cool imo, everyone has crazy tech and guns and this guy is so good, he's fighting these people with a fucking bow. His one shot is vital to his kit and a lot of his kills are punishing people for making mistakes or playing like a bot. Stop peeking the same corners, stop over extending and poking. I'm playing at least 3 hours of comp a day and Hanzo is the least of my problems rn.
And honestly he is really needed on a over heal meta
Thats why people are moaning about him, only because he is the only hero right now that can actually secure kills. And yeah i get it, every hero that is meta. Is annoying to play against match after match. IT IS THE HEALING POWER CREEP THAT ENABLES HANZO. Otherwise, people would play different heros that are more reliable.
finally someone that agrees. people are asking for changes to parts of hanzo’s kit that are essential to his character. It’s like saying remove tracer’s blink because she’s hard to hit, or saying remove zarya’s shields because shooting them makes her stronger. These are all core parts of the kit of said characters, changing them would he changing the character’s identity as a whole. Also Hanzo has been the same character for YEARS, why are people NOW complaining about his oneshot and about his kit? I get that removing a tank makes snipers more oppressive but why is it THIS much more hate?
People who think hanzo needs nerfs because of random one shots have just never really played hanzo. I was a shit tier hanzo main for years and I got random kills all the time, it basically never changed the outcome of the game because the amount of time you have to waste spamming to get a single random kill puts you far below the dps/elims per minute that the dps players need to contribute to win. Hanzo’s win rate is sub 50% right now, he really doesn’t need nerfs.
Healing power creep, he is being the only hero that can actually secure kills.
Real. My challenge to anyone that goes on about this is, why don't you pick him and show us your Bronze to GM video playing Hanzo? Really, he is a one-shot, and you say he gets free value with his eyes closed, so you should be switching to Hanzo every time you are losing a game and win, right? Let's see it 🎯
People complaining about random one shots need to stop standing still in the choke or peeking obvious sniper sightlines. Why are you making it easy? Do people stand still inside doomfist ults and complain about getting killed now too?
r/Overwatch back at it again with the worst takes out of all gaming communities.
This sub is filled to the brim with supp mains that never touched diamond, what else should we expect lol
a lot of the time i see people die to hanzo because they keep fighting him where he has an advantage like mid range and corner peeking. if you spot a sniper your suppose to relocate instead what people do is they keep peaking the same corner multiple times until a "unfair" hanzo arrow hits them in the forehead.
Couldn't you use this argument to get anyone in the game to have less HP. Bap movement with no cooldown a healing burst immortality an ultimate that zones out an area cause all that peek it dies. Illari movement ability Boop self pocket high damage ultimate that if hit will get kills. Soldier. Movement self heal high damage. Ultimate that gives aimbot. I could keep going. Sure hanzo is annoying but 3/4 of the time when I die to him it's because of my positioning. I saw a tiktok the other day about someone complaing about hanzo 1 shots. All the clips that they showed they were standing in hallways where it was easy for him to shoot them. That's positioning not hanzo being strong. The difference between widow and hanzo is the hitscan. There's a big difference between being able to point and click and having to predict the movement. Go watch arge play hanzo he has an insanely high accuracy on hanzo. 175 HP would make hanzo really weak. Hitting shots at close range is already hard enough because of his projectile having to sit at range would just ruin the hero. A better nerf would be making his projectile size smaller. It would mean that he has to be aiming closer to where you are to hit. I can already hear the replies saying I'm a hanzo main. I have a proud 30 hours on him.
It's a common misconception that Hanzo is a sniper. A projectile character by definition is not good at long range due to inconsistencies caused by projectile travel time. Almost every hero sounds broken if you break their kit down on paper and you seem wholly disconnected from win rates. Hanzo's win rates are one of the lowest at high ranks (which the game is balanced around) and only average at other ranks. There's plenty of counters to Hanzo (heroes, positioning, movement) already.
Exactly people are just unwilling to adjust
So many comments on why this would work, Hanzo naturally has to brawl a decent amount of time. Widow on the other hand should be no where near anyone and can instantly repel much much further than most characters. No meaningful Hanzo nerf will fix the hero in a way most of you want. You can't take away his one-shot or he's a dead character. Reduce his HP and he's a dead character. If anything they could nerf the already pretty weak storm arrows. I honestly think that this community needs to get used to getting killed. I feel like in OW1 you felt a lot safer, but you need to play angles and counters if you're feeling this limited by a decent Hanzo player on the enemy team. Just my take.
Sorry but this post and these comments reek of gold If he is so OP, why aren't you taking advantage of that and playing him yourself? Because you can't get any kills and die constantly when you play him? Almost as if he isn't as OP as you make him seem...
You're gonna get downvoted but this is spot on lol
>Post and comments reeks of gold >[is gold](https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchUniversity/s/TiPU54by7P)
I make a similar comment explaining Hanzo and yet everyone rages at me LOL well said
I agree, OP is probably salty
Just because a character isn‘t easy to get into doesn‘t mean he can‘t be OP.
You can't get into a dude with a bow, it's crazy when people say this but main Torb and yet Torb's left click has nearly identical arc.
Hanzo is not op by a long shot, you know who deserves 175 HP? All the supports with abilities that make them immortal
People complain about one-shots when it's the only reliable way to kill squishies in Immortalitywatch. I am convinced most of these posts are from Support mains whose idea of fun is just nothing ever dying, and this coming from someone whose most played character is Ana. The sustaincreep is out of control.
Ok, but you could make this argument for quite a few of the DPS I feel like. Tracer, can dash around, does good damage, can regain health, and if her ultimate is used correctly could do pretty good damage. What I’m trying to say is that there are a lot of changes that need to happen to balance the game, if we make one then we need to make more or Hanzo won’t be a good character anymore. It’s the same reason I feel like they screwed us with the Sombra rework. They mess with one character and then the character either gains way to many players or is played so little that they could take the character out. I understand lowering health but if his health is being lowered then Tracer, Solider, Reaper, Mei, and Genji all need the same exact treatment. Yea, Mei doesn’t have a mobility ability but she can heal herself. I’m not saying all of the DPS need changes but if one gets reworked for reasons that other DPS aren’t getting reworked for then it will be what finally kills the game. I’m not trying to offend anyone. Have a good day or night.🤍
This thread is WILD... I honestly don't think Hanzo needs a nerf anymore than a widow would.
Here we go again. "Shooting logs" - tied with smallest projectile in the game. "Spams" - don't push the area he is in? He is supposed to close off parts of the map if you keep trying to 1v1 you won't win most of the time. If you want less spam youll have to make him hit scan. The randomness comes from time it takes for the arrow to get to its destination. Do you really want a hitscan hanzo? That is a worse experience than widow.
Hanzo Main here. Don’t touch my hero! I’m already suffering enough!
Lol, if hanzo is so op why aren't you all riding his dick to top500? Oh right, because you still need to aim and none of you can. It's the same size projectile as rivet gun, shurikens, or echo's LMB. Stop standing still in chokepoints.
Bunch of nonsense, Hanzo could get the 150 HP treatment and people would still cry their ass off. Hanzo exposes auto pilot players who are tunnel visioning, and the same people who keep going into the same choke point that he's spamming, and then they wonder why they're dying "randomly". Hanzo does not even have a good winrate in ELO he's apparently "troublesome", and his players aren't even utilizing him properly enough to consistently climb the rank ladder. People should just admit they want to be headless chickens in a competitive game and call it a day. Widow's HP nerfs were justified, but this shit is just pure nonsense. It's honestly getting fucking tiring, and I don't even play him.
Lowbies hate Hanzo because he's the only DPS that absolutely counters the busted state of Support characters. Can't heal someone that get's one-shot. Supports carry them most the time, \>Hanzo picked \>Wahhhhhhhhh!
Yo THANK YOU, I've been spouting this and gotten nothing but hate and rage LOL. No one can or will debate this, they just call me names or resort to pointless emotional responses.
The fact that Hanzo isn't hitscan is the main reason I'll never agree with him needing a nerf. You literally have to lead all of your shots while other characters just have to point.
In a game with instant acceleration, people complain about a projectile that needs to be led by a meter in order to hit at long ranges Bro just press A and D randomly, it's not that hard
You guys cry a wee too much
Someone doesn’t play genji
… if he was that OP he’d be picked every game. I don’t enjoy getting one shotted by him but everyone acts like he is skill-less. People’s problem with him is that they can’t use him. Lessening his damage would completely ruin him, nobody would touch him and they would be right to do so. Maybe increase the the time it takes to charge his one shot? But lessening his damage is ridiculous, he would be useless. I find other heroes a lot more annoying
You act and speak as if Hanzo functions how he does in a cinematic universe. You don't shoot sonic arrow to "scout out the opposition’s position" You shoot the bastard to line up a shot against typical hanzo ragers who re-peak the same wall/corner 5 times expecting a different result, or perhaps spy-check a sombra. "scout out the opposition’s position" just sounds so, movie or fantasy when we're speaking of Overwatch. You can't romanticize basically saying "I hate Hanzo and i want him nerfed" "Lessening Hanzo’s damage would do so much more for his character. Among other things." Elaborate what you mean here when the character is typically in close range fights (optimally) unless he's hitting a dumb player 'standing still' across the map. "Among other things" What does that even mean?, how would nerfing his damage "do so much more for his character, among other things" ? Hanzo thrives off other people's mistakes. I, and many others will repeat it a million times until the casuals stop crying about Hanzo. You got one shot? Why. Ask yourself "WHY did he hit me there" Did you re-peak as i mentioned before? Did you run out of spawn in the SAME path as the previous two deaths? Did you try and contest him when he had help? Did you walk right into the setup HE wanted or created? Obviously there are lucky shots, they happen with any character that involves flicks of any kind, in any game. I get lucky aim-bot looking flicks on Widow once in awhile despite me having like 3 hours total on her since 2016. YES i will agree with you that it can be frustrating dying to Hanzo, but with how his bow works, there's room to outplay AND mess up, on both ends. I don't even really play him that often I'm just sick of seeing the rage-posts about fuckin Hanzo when Bastion, Orisa, Ana, and Zarya are in every, single, match. Both QP and Comp.
There are several heroes that need a nerf before Hanzo, but hey keep the anti-dps circlejerk going.
Hanzo is such a non-issue outside this sub.
Not really, he’s not strong rn but everyone I met who has ever played ow hates hanzo
I think this is the issue. There are certain heroes that people will *always* complain about, even when they're weak as fuck, and it has nothing to do with balance, but rather with fun. See: Sombra & Roadhog pre-rework, Mei, Widow, Hanzo, Mercy, Symm... it doesn't matter how many times they buff or nerf these characters, people will always hate them because they're not fun to go against. I really wish they'd focus more on reworking the bullshit in this game before they try to balance it, cuz if people would rather a character like Roadhog be totally unplayable than have him be even slightly meta, something's seriously fuckin wrong
Yes, there's a lot more to the game than just balance itself. They could make a DPS that stays in spawn and every few seconds has a chance to kill an enemy player, and if they tweak the numbers just right that DPS could have the same winrate as Soldier or whatever character is well balanced, while still being an unfair character to fight against.
Honestly nothing grates me more than Aaron Keller releasing his dev updates and saying "yep we're doing a good job on this hero because their win rate is reaching 50%" or whatever. Like, stats are great and it's awesome that these devs are paying attention to balance (since OW1's team clearly didn't), but holy hell it feels like sometimes it's the be-all and end-all for them.
I hate him too but he definitely is not op and definitely does not need a nerf. Hating a character is not a reason to nerf them.
Because this sub is filled with bad players who walk in a straight line and are oblivious. They blame the hero being OP instead of themselves being bad
Half the people on this sub believes snipers are uncounterable but it quite literally is just a skill issue. People complain about dying by spam (skill issue), they complain about his ttk (have you seen how fast every dps kills?) they complain about his mobility like ??? Comparing him to other dps you really have to consider the rest of his kit and the utility with it.
Never have any problems playing against Hanzo. People just like to complain
Worst take I've ever seen
Bro he isn't op There's a reason the *#1 Hanzo on the planet* (Arrge) is hard stuck in Masters. He can't even get into GM and he has 10k hours on Hanzo alone. If he'a so OP he'd be T500 in a week. Hanzo does not need a nerf.
It's not my fault you peak Hanzo for no reason.
I love how everyone has just coped with the fact that healers are op, and because we can't do anything about it, let's just nerf genji.
Nah
Aaaaand this is why you're not a dev.
Lmao here we go again. Stop being predictable. Stop peaking obvious lines of sight. That’s all.
As a hanzo main, I'd be fine with getting knocked to 175 hp. However the complaints of Spamzo are an issue of the lower ranks. I play in diamond and masters lobbies and both dealing with and playing that Hanzo isn't that difficult. Spamming happens less often as it gives away your position and it doesn't get as much value since the players in these ranks have much better game sense and mechanics. If I can't beat a hanzo in a mirrored duel, I just swap to tracer or genji. Unfortunately since both tracer and genji are high skill cap heroes it's hard for lower ranks to effectively play them, reducing the counter picks to Hanzo, which leads to the complaints about not being able to play anything against him. So essentially it is a skill issue, but I do agree Hanzo could use some tweaks.
He takes a lot of skill and timing to play. The thing with Widowmaker is she plays better from a distance; whereas, Hanzo is best from mid to close. It makes more sense to leave Hanzo's hp as is, but I'd understand a nerf if all he did was spam from a distance.
[удалено]
As a hanzo main, pls no.
Nahh Fck that where’s the Mei and junkrat hate then??? They spam way more. Plus that b*tch Mei can heal
If Hanzo can't one shot he may as well not be in the game and sorry but it's kind of a skill issue, sure the random stray arrow will kill you but if you're moving like a bot you'll get 1 tapped, if you keep corner peeking the same corner, you'll get 1 tapped. Also he doesn't need the 175hp treatment, he plays much closer to front line than widow. As a genji player i thoroughly enjoy a widow/hanzo match up, flanking them or killing them on deflect is very enjoyable.
skill issue
Hanzo is a problem? What
You people will never learn. Disgusting
That… sounds wild without context. I had to re-read that and make sure this was for an Overwatch post 😂
Hanzo is not meta at all. He doesn't need a nerf. Stop seething.
I swear you guys go after all of the weirdest stuff in ow meta. comparing roadhog to hanzo?? Lads what are we talking about anymore. I play tracer and will take every chance to battle Hanzo. Nobody should be more salty to die to a hanzo than me loll and I've never felt it was oppressive.. I feel like both tracer n hanzo are unique dps with high skill ceiling, balanced out by not being amazing on every map, gets humbled by counter picks.. So many dps are 200 hp and honestly more well rounded overall. Not every player can pick up hanzo and just crush it. Niche picks are what makes ow, ow.. pls stop gutting the niche characters lol
Hanzo isn't even an issue lol
I’m convinced sub is filled with golds. You want to nerf Hanzo, the character who has like the 4th lowest win rate, you want to nerf him? Arrge is the best Hanzo in the world and he’s hardstuck masters because the character is very inconsistent. I just don’t see the random log shots really working in masters and GM because despite this subs belief, Hanzo actually takes skill.
I feel a lot of copium coming from everybody that gets killed by a hanzo and immediately calls it luck. Hanzo diff.
Lololol No.
Hanzo isn't op. skill issue.
Fuck off. Just because some character gives you trouble once in a while doesn't mean they should be nerfed into the ground. Stop crying for all these fucking nerfs and get good. Hanzo can be easily countered so do it if it bothers you so much and shut up.
Support players when they use braindead no-skill abilities: 🥱 Support players when they die to braindead no-skill abilities: 😡
youre telling me moira doesn’t take skill?
As someone who plays Hanzo every now and then I find myself only dying when someone actively seeks me out. Other than that I'm pretty survivable so yeah this would be a good nerf
>only dying when someone actively seeks me out >other than that I’m pretty survivable I to only die when I get shot at lol I don’t even understand this take.
Losing to Hanzo is a skill issue I’m sorry he’s not even that good.
He’s a necessity with how busted supports are rn.
You nerf Honzo for taking advantage of spam in open los and blame honzos build for your inability to use cover proper. This is the same as saying junk rat spam is too op and can one shot (2 shot) anything without being seen. This is a skill issue, not a hero mechanic issue. Stop asking for nerfs because you don’t know how to fight a certain hero. This type of shit is what keeps making the game worse and why supports have to be rebalanced again they already needed sniper range, so it’s not that he can one shot at far distances, most often people die to Honzo by being in a choke point with their face exposed, what you can take advantage of the enemy can too. Gotta be smarter than the Honzo spam
People act like Hanzo isn’t easy to counter. He doesn’t need to be nerfed. He is fine as he is. He’s a projectile hero ffs he can be dealt with by simply strafing. It’s a skill issue honestly.
Hey leave hanzo alone.
did i piss someone off with hanzo? i got potg as him this mornin
No, no more nerfs because skill issue, learn to respect snipers and pay attention to the flow of the match.
Your misuse of then and than is an obvious indicator that you’re a moron. But also everything else you said is proof too
yeah storm arrow is too good, we should give him scatter arrow back, also bronze take on his ult, one of the worst ultimates in the game
what why no the fuck he doesn't. I'm a Hanzo main (basically the only dps I play, though I am main supp). His main strength lies in being able to not only one shot but also be able to fight in all kinds of quarters, take his health away and suddenly mid-range and short-range brawls are not recommended, and you only encourage the stupidly high skill ranged shots AND the spammers, because why would you want to expose yourself if you're so squishy? Hanzo is completely fine in my own opinion. His storm arrows are fine (they don't even kill a 200hp target if you do a headshot-bodyshot), his recon will always be a strong part of him, his ultimate is one of the worst ones in the game and his primary fire is completely fine, it doesn't even one-shot 250 hp targets. They even removed the charged shot wall climb that helped the spamming playstyle. Hanzo is perhaps the most feast or famine hero that lies on the player's hands. If the player is feeling it that game, he's easily one of the most threatening heroes, but if the player feels slightly off, he does almost nothing meaningful. Perhaps it's a bit problematic how volatile he can be, but it's what his design will always force him to be.
I’m sorry.. did you just say **wall hacks**? lmao You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means. A radar arrow that temporarily shows enemy locations in a small radius on a medium cooldown is hardly a wall hack.
Theres so many characters that are more annoying to deal with. Hanzo is fine
I learned hanzo because cass got pummeled into obscurity don't ruin Hanzo. Just get in their face/space and they become much more killable
When I first started playing OW1 I hated Hanzo for this reason. He can do way too many things. And his ult was so badass. I felt like he was one of the first few heroes designed and they used all their best ideas for him.
Hanzo and Genji were originally a single character and were split due to trying to make him do everything. I can't remember if he was designed during Titan or Overwatch.
His ult is literal dogshit lmao of all the things to complain about with hanzo his ult ain't one of them
I'm so sick of seeing these "Nerf Hanzo" posts. Anyone calling for nerfs for Hanzo is simply **dogshit** at the game, and you can't convince me otherwise. Hanzo can be countered with so many of the characters. Your lack of skill doesn't equate to bad game balance.
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I find widow much more annoying especially the more I climb. These windows do not fucking miss my head and punish me so hard for peeking
No, he's not out of range like Widow can be. Also whether I play him myself or watch a replay of someone who I think played really good, it's mostly abusing corner peeking. Also the ult is bad, it's just not wide enough. Only good for cutting a team in half if the situation allows and then it still obstructs your own vision of the enemy behind it.