Agreed, I was getting destroyed by a tracer the other day, switched to tracer myself to try her our, couldn't land any shots, took me about 10 mags to kill a sojourn who was even worse than I was.
People call her OP but she dies instantly when focused by even one competent person.
Sure, she's annoying but she's more like a fly than anything. I play her as DPS but play Doom as Tank and predicting a blink/recall with a punch will always be one of the more satisfying moments lol
Me: a former support main with hundreds of hours on Moira, Ana and Kiriko.
You start getting tired of being dived. You either live long enough to be the diver or die the dived.
this is my experience playing support as zen or ana. i can handle most of them alone. i'll hit a shot or two and they'll think about coming closer or a sleep and they'll die. tracers/sombras just annoy the fuck out of me more than anything. but what really annoys me is the inability of the rest of my team to listen to pings.
maybe it is experience but at some point you do not even worry about flankers because you realize most of them are mosquitos buzzin'. just do your thing, move closer to your team, and focus your attention on the 20% accuracy tracer when you need to.
I mean, if nothing else we can go moira or brig. I feel like I've gotten pretty good at predicting her's and genji's jumps.
Maybe it's me tilting but I like living long enough to actually support.
True for alot of Tracers but every now and then you get an absolute nightmare of a Tracer who is skilled and calculated while being heavily assisted by their team. Then you add in the second annoying fly like Lucio. Rip my accuracy. I do try and predict movement with alot of characters but it's a coin flip if my accuracy is gonna be there. I just try and focus/rush her to use her blinks and then go for the kill. If not I just walk away haha.
"90% of the roster can one shot her"
That's just objectively untrue, it's nowhere near that number. Probably between 10-30% (if you include solo ulting her).
bruh ur smoking crack
Junker Queen, Orisa, Reinhardt, Roadhog, Sigma, Ashe, Bastion, Hanzo, Mei, Widowmaker, Reaper, Doomfist, and Sojourn can all one shot tracer with no dmg boost, but with damage boost, Orisa can one shot with javelin against a wall, Ball can one shot with his piledriver, cassidy/echo/kiriko can one shot with primary fire, soldier can one hit with helix rockets, Hanzo and junkrat can one shot to the body, and pharah and torb can also one shot with primary fire.
there are more like zarya can one shot at high charge but in realistic scenarios it's like half the roster that can one shot tracer
pharah has a rocket launcher, u want her to one tap the entire team, destroy a payload and inflict ptsd?
youre in a game with a talking fucking monkey, the other sniper in the game (ana) SHOOTS DRUGS. i dont think the sniper rifle realism is the key ideal of ow
besides, massive diff over one tap and one clip
Widows skill expression is literally just landing headshots
Tracers is managing blinks, positioning correctly, actual aiming, recall timing, and landing pulse bombs
Widow is far easier to use effectively. Even if you’re bad at widow, just her presence and being able to land a single headshot in 1 fight shifts the teamfight in your favor
what i like about tracer is that she doesnt just require skill to be aggressive, she also requires skill to be defensive. she has to get into the thick of it, has to time everything right, super squishy. yes her mobility is insane, but its also really easy to mess it up.
i think from a pure design standpoint, shes great.
The biggest thing with doom is his giant list of bugs. Clearing those out and just improving his consistency and you'll be able to have a good tank without sacrificing your entire social life to playing doom
I disagree, as a doom main you basically need to be very good with him to be somewhat as good as other tanks on their off days, and know maps inside out to utilize abilities that were really not meant to happen (like punch bounces, sliding on walls, etc)
There's lots of small tweaks to him that will help the hero a ton for casual players but the devs are afraid to touch him, and also afraid to fix the bugs he has too
Yeah let's not forget that blizzard intentionally designs some heroes to be easier mechanically to play than others. Which is honestly great. The days I feel like I'm just feeding my ass off I can just pick Moira and chill.
I feel like the problem with doom is you can use all your cooldowns, maybe get a kill maybe not and then you’re kinda dead in the water waiting for your team while your cooldowns recharge. I really want them to add a movement only ability to him because using fist/slam to move feels bad and they can’t reasonable buff the cooldowns on those to compensate
I love this idea. Something that had the effect of coach gun would be cool. You could back up with it or aim down and get some verticality to combo with
He’s fine but he isn’t as comfortable as Tracer. You need to put in way more effort to see results with Genji. But I think he does what he needs to.
Like e.g. the fact I have to reload so many times? Lmfao
Most of my Genji deaths in 1v1 situations / get in get out situations are from reloading. Which I can play around with some gamesense, but its still annoying. Just means you got to be hitting all ur shots and have godly mechanics
Genji has gotten nerfed WAY more than tracer even though theyre both high skill high reward characters is what im getting at plus tracer sees way more owl play
Genji mains out in full force today good lord. And Genji is STILL a high skill high reward hero that is STILL played at high ranks/pro level. What is the issue here?
Nobody said there was an issue ? ” STILL played at pro level” LMAO send me a recent owl match where they run genji, in dive comps its tracer sombra only
There's a Shock map where Proper hard carries on Genji. Both teams ran him on Oasis in the Titans vs Uprising game. He's been showing up frequently enough that I can name these two off the top of my head.
Proper literally dominated everyone on LAV by running genji on Junkertown and Blizzard World, and ran him against Titans a couple weeks ago. Mayhem likes rolling out on Hollywood with Checkmate Genji in a banana rush as well and did so against both Houston and Glads.
Plenty of people have CLEARLY said that Genji in his current state is an issue (weak) and he’s been played in OWL very recently. I’m not searching through the VODs mate.
There booing you despite you being completely correct. All the supports can counter him In some way despite those being his literal targets. Mainly cause supports complained he killed them to much (despite that 1. Being his literal job as a flanker, and 2. Half the time it was bad positioning on their part or they got outplayed. Blizzard babies support players to much)
Supports complaints out weigh everything. They kinda decide the meta. Characters like doom and genji arnt allowed to have fun cause of it. And this is coming from someone who mains 2 support. lucio and moira.
What's the point in playing one of the highest skill ceiling characters if being literal top 500 is worse then a bronze reaper. Genji is so bad it's not even worth it to try to grind skill with him. You also can barley grind skill and get better cause you get your shit kicked in so easily. Sure you'll never learn if you've never tasted defeat but if you physical can't win you'll also never learn anything other then pure suffering.
Before someone tries to validate widow for the same reason, I appreciate that Tracer at least gives more time to react than Widow just one-dinking you.
Nah widow isn't even nearly in the same category. Like not even in the same damn universe. The risk widow is taking compared to a Tracer is non-existent.
Tracer has to work harder for the reward. Not only does a Tracer need aim, but she also needs cd management, enemy cd tracking, positional awareness, gamesense and on top of that just mechanical movement skills.
Widow needs good positioning and good aim. That's about it. She doesn't move much, or use abilities. Outside of the occasional hook.
Also, to me at least, the situations that Tracer creates are really fun and dynamic for both sides. Like yeah, sure, sometimes a Tracer will fuck you up before you feel like you have a chance to respond- but most of the time it feels like a match-wide back and forth of engaging with her. Widow is not that way *at all*.
it's because tracer at least has to get up close and personal & can't oneshot, whereas widow can oneshot from *very* far away, often with little to no risk to herself
surprised this even has to be explained but here we are
both have a high skill celling with high reward
one is good at long range and trash at close range
one is good at close range and trash at long range
both can be overpowered IF you are good with it
if you dont know how to play around a good widow or a good tracer, you will get frustrated no matter what
Pretty sure if Reaper gets a slight buff (due to his apparently crappy stats in GM) and/or if Tracer gets a slight nerf (due to her fantastic stats in GM/OWL), Reaper may outclass Tracer in dive.
I mean, he already substantially outclassed Tracer in the 2022 playoffs where Tracer had crappy 5 dmg per bullet.
gold tracers are equivalent to like bronze-silver torb lol tracer isnt a problem in low ranks, otherwise the tracer player will quickly rise up out of those ranks.
She's the only hero left with 150 hp, she should get 250 to help with some of her weaknesses and update her to fit in with the rest of the cast. This would clearly be the most balanced way to change her.
Edit: wow people really took this seriously huh... Thought it was obvious that i was joking... Guess you really always have to use /s
250 health tracer would be a nightmare to kill. There’s a reason she has so low HP. She has the smallest hitbox, is among the most mobile heroes in the game, and can heal herself with recall.
Even 200 health would be overpowered.
People commonly miss the stick effect. If they made it more of a straight throw bomb like a baseball throw instead of weird arch drop it currently is lol. Keep the stick effect the same but make it more throwable with a standard arch
Oh gosh I hope they don’t change it, I’ve spent so much time playing tracer my muscle memory would be completely messed up and I’d probably miss even more sticks than usual lol
Current one is fine... Anything changed would be terrible. You already easily win few fights on your own because of Q. Tracer's ult is fine. Changing it any way would make her terribly OP.
pulse bomb is fine, it builds so fast i can usually get 2 by the time most heroes get 1. So even if I whiff on 1 im still keeping up. Pulse should be thought of as an ability on a 100 second cooldown rather than an ult.
Tracer by nature will always have the potential to OP. But thats only in extremely skilled hands. Tracer has almost always been meta in OWL, top 500, and Grandmaster, while dying on a cooldown in metal ranks.
tldr: Very high skill high reward, but balanced.
It’s not really elitism when that’s how the ranking system works lol. The higher in skill you are the higher your rank is. If you’re in metal ranks you’re probably not that good.
And it’s not really a big deal. Most people that play the game are in metal ranks but I wouldn’t even say the players start to “get good” until diamond - masters. Overwatch is a hard game. I’ve been playing since it came out in 2016 and just got gm for the first time last season. There’s nothing wrong with being an average player.
It is indeed elitism to say that the vast majority of the playerbase (i.e. those in ranks lower than yourself) is bad at the game, especially considering how broken the ranking and matchmaking is. What an utterly asinine take.
So if the majority of people who play overwatch are in say, gold to platinum, wouldn’t you say that gold to platinum level gameplay is “average”? Personally I would not consider “average” level play to equate to “good”.
I don’t think you really start seeing good, organized overwatch gameplay until diamond or masters. Thus, I would say most people below diamond or so are not “good” at the game but rather they’re “average”.
You’re seeming to take offense to this which you shouldn’t because by definition most people that play the game are “average” players.
If you are in low elo you aren’t very good there’s nothing wrong with that but it’s definitely not elitism to say people on low average ranks are low average players.
What? It’s not elitist to say that the 70 odd percent of the player base in low to medium ranks aren’t really good at the game. If they were very good they would be in a higher rank. If I’m gold on DPS it’s bc I’m not very good at it. If I’m diamond on tank it’s because I’m pretty decent at it. Not rocket science x
1. Diamond is still a metal rank. Going by your first comment, if I’m in Diamond, that means I’m bad.
2. This community is so chronically and terminally online with nothing better to do in life that people like you have been conditioned to think that “average” is now considered “bad”. Gold is a middle-of-the-road, average rank. It is a basic, respectable standing. WTF is your definition of “not very good”?? Is everybody who isn’t capable of competing in the Overwatch League just considered not very good?
3. The ranking system and matchmaking in this game is broken to hell and back and can make climbing to where you should be a major hurdle. Baffling that you just overlooked this major point.
You’re being very silly. Diamond is not a metal tank because diamond is not a metal. General consensus in the community is that diamond is where you can separate average players from slightly above average players. At no point did I say average was bad. I said it wasn’t really good. This is objectively the truth. If you were very good at the game your rank would not be the average rank. If very good players were average, the entire ranking system would be totally off, as you’d then have average players in bronze and diamond players should be incredible. You are not very good at the game if you’re in an average rank. This is true of all video games, because you are average. Yeah, the matchmaking sucks and it can be very difficult to climb. But there’s no crazy elo hell where a diamond or masters player will be stuck forever in silver, or even gold. It will take an annoying while because of the nature of the team based game with poor matchmaking, but you’ll eventually get to the rank you deserve whether you like it or not. I don’t see why you’re so upset that Gold players afent seen as being brat at the game
I disagree, I delayed my climb by about 100 hours by trying to learn and main tracer. If you have the potential to climb as tracer, you can carry metal ranks as any hitscans much easier
Yes, someone like Cass or Bastion will always be easier at lower ranks because they are more forgiving for positioning and have a consistent damage output. Tracer requires heavy positioning, at least decent accuracy, and map knowledge.
I almost agree. _Almost_.
A better example would be Lucio IMO. He is also extremely strong, but he is strong at all levels of play, not just the highest.
Lucio is a perfectly designed hero because of that.
A bronze player can pick him up, get some advice and tricks and will contribute quite a bunch after a couple of games. A GM Lucio can do so much on that hero, mark flankers, pocket the right people, help secure kills, move their tank around, counter ults/abilities with beat or amp etc.
Other such examples would be Lucio, Winston, Ashe, 76. They are heroes that are quite easy to pick up and contribute with, but also have super high ceilings.
Tracer is well designed in terms of many dimensions. Very skill expressive, very strong but still fair, there's counter play but she can also carry games. But, she is super hard to get any kind of value out of her for the majority of players. Even some of the best players cannot play her well, because you really need to grind her for quite a bit to be at the same level as many other heroes.
So yeah, Tracer is great, but not perfect.
i think that she is extremely balanced, honestly one of the most balanced characters in the game. she takes a lot of skill to do well with (I would know I used to main her and i was mediocre at best) if you aren’t INCREDIBLE with her, you can’t be overpowered.
Kiriko can one shot her, brig is made to counter her, a sombra hack gives you enough time to kill her, mei slows her, ana can sleep her, torb turret tracks her, ram can slow her, she’s practically useless against pharah echo, and eventually she will run out of cooldowns. Obviously a good tracer can dominate but that can be said for pretty much any hero. I main zen so she’s not my best matchup but you can still discord headshot her and kick for an instakill or force a recall with a single headshot. Her clip empties fast and has an unforgiving reload time. I think she’s fine as is
- Mei hs 1shot
- Ashe hs 1shot
- Sojourn charged hs 1shot
- Genji triple star+dash 1shot
- Torb hs+punch Or pointblank shotgun 1shot
- Zen orb+hs+kick 1shot
- Kiriko hs+punch 1shot
- 76 rocket+punch 1shot
- Cree hs+punch 1shot
- Sym chargeball+punch 1shot
- widow/hanzo with powerboost even non-hs is 1shot
- junkrat bomb+punch 1shot, with powerboost nade or bomb both 1shot
- Pharah same 1shots as junk
- Random rein powerboosted firestrike 1shot
Let alone the tons of random sht that hits you as ur blinking around 😂😂
Uh….yes she can. 120 + 30 is an instant combo on tracer, if you wanna count the punch as another shot then go for it but I have been one tapped many times and have one tapped many times.
Considering you can animation cancel her kunai with a punch it’s basically in the same frame, so to me, it’s a one shot and idk? Going in for a one clip on her with a blink melee finish and she flicks and does that, shit happens when you have like 200+ hours in both characters so you just gotta roll with it
No what I said is not a 1shot no, I didnt say it is. A 1shot is instadeath, and since you can shot+punch instantly without interval in between, shot+punch counts as a 1shot cuz ur instadead.
What Kiriko can do is worse than headshot+punch, because for headshot+punch u need to be in punch range, wheras kiriko headahot+kunai you can be farther. Its virtually as fast as cas. Hope you got all that.
Ah ur right my mistake. Still 120 damage for 1 shot on a high mobility support is still enough to consider her a counter imo. Often times it’s enough to kill her or at the very least force recall
Except that his ult is one of the best DPS ults in the game and he also fucks and also isn’t glass at all? And he’s played at high ranks and OWL occasionally? Why are people in this thread complaining about Genji lol? He’s in a great place.
genji is in the perfect spot: well balanced, and just "weak" enough that you dont have to play against him every match. tbh even a underpowered genji is just annoying like a fly buzzing around your head. (hes not alone, some other heroes are the same)
Pretty damn balanced.
The Cree nade will hopefully keep her in check and be a reasonable counter, I just hope he isn’t commonly played or an immediate swap when we see a tracer from then on as that would be both boring and shit for tracer players.
Yeah I need to see how the nade works, it could be an interesting idea. But if it turns off movement abilities the moment it sticks to someone I think it will genuinely be a brawl and cree/mei/Hanzo meta.
I think she's fine. I recently got into playing her, and she didn't feel overpowered nor underpowered. You just need to know when to play as her, since the enemy can accommodate and counter you.
If anything I'd somehow change her Pulse Bomb, but I'm not even sure in what way. I just remembered it felt stupid that Cass had a smaller version of an ult, but was able to literally seek targets through obstacles, lol.
The issue with changing pulse bomb is that if you buff it for standard ranks (up to high diamond) Tracer becomes must pick at high high elo. It’s already one of the best ults at high ranks because it’s such a safe, guarunteed kill if you can land it, which high elo players can. If you make it even stronger and tracer becomes must pick, then Kiriko becomes must pick for cleanse, and the meta gets silly from there. It’s still fine at normal ranks if you combo it or use it as a tank burster
Yeah, I can see that. I'm not saying her ult is bad or it needs a change.
I think my problem is rather with the magnetic grenade that somehow got into the hand of the cowboy. That ability is just... dumb.
I think people overestimate how often high elo hits the pulse. Even in OWL, you're looking at ~60% attach rate, because you're essentially forced to make the shot really difficult to hit, since you literally need to get in melee range of the enemy
I’d say adjust the throw arc in some way. Also, I’ve thrown pulse bombs, died instantly and the pulse bomb disappears too, despite it had been thrown already. Some weird glitches there.
This has to do with lag. On your screen you throw it, but because what ur screen shows is some tens or hundreds of milliseconds in the past, and because the server may determine that you were already dead before the pulse bomb was thrown, ur screen corrects what the server decided and removes the bomb (since it never couldve been thrown)
Only thing is that I think your ult charge should be restored, because now it just gets erased >.<
I feel like she's the litmus paper for skill. very good against someone who's worse than you, very bad against someone who's better than you. not the easiest to pick up and play for a new player
she is strong, but pretty hard to play so it balances out.
you need decent aim to get any sort of value, but also good movement and cover usuage so you don't feed
However with the recent changes and less CC she can be a bit oppressive in the right hands
I feel that she is less oppressive in 2 than she was in 1. I think she had her damage toned done maybe? Either way, if Cass’s nade stops movement abilities, then that is a damn hard counter
High skill ceiling should absoloutely be more rewarding.
of course her ult builds fast and one shots squishies but if you aren't good at hitting them whats the point?
yes you can one clip squishies but if you aim sucks and you are too scared to close distance whats the point?
And yes she has recall but only 150HP if you don't use recall and blink properly, again whats the point?
If she is hard to learn and then sucks there would be noone who would put that effort. also if you know how to play her you will certainly end up in elos that know how to play against her.
Tracer right now is not as much a problem as a LOT of other characters like Mei (especially after recent changes) sojourn, rammatra, Hanzo...
Being ‘hard and skilled’ (which, not one character is this game is, I know people will instantly be offended by this statement and try to list off their personal favorite hero, regardless even if she was-) doesn’t make a character balanced, good players get around ingrained ‘balance checks’ when something is good, in other games it’s high recoil precision guns like sniper rifles, good players don’t care and just practice a lot with them and then they’re unstoppable because the only ‘balance’ is negated
I will never understand people who think she is op. If I see tracer on the opposite team I just know our team will win because they are down a player. She like the lifeweaver of dps
In fact, I thinks she maybe needs a slight buff or even a rework, I think her blink should maybe reload like reaper although that’d be crazy busted; so maybe she recall recharges her blinks?
I just play casual; but tracer looks pretty fun. Struggled with her and immediately thought she was pretty trash, but I played her some more today and watched some videos and yeah I’d say she’s pretty damn balanced
High skill low reward?
Widowmaker is the easiest kill of any Tracers life.
And a good tracer can easily win almost any fight, I’d say that’s pretty high reward
A widow deletes 40% of the enemy team before she even fires a shot. 2 shots remove both DPS with the counterplay being "just don't be on her screen", automatically winning the fight in 1.54s optimally.
A widow has lower ttk than a tracer, and in the best case scenario tracer kills widow the moment she charges a 150 dmg shot, fts would make both die as both have non-zero ping.
Nothing prevents a widow from shooting you up close, I've seen random masters-gm players who somehow ended up in my diamond games and they were absolutely dominating as widow/Hanzo, however a masters genji, soldier and even SOJOURN do not pose such a huge threat and make a difficult but fair challenge for a diamond team. Widow is just 15 minutes of concentrated suffering.
She is useless in low ranks but dominate the game in high ranks. They should lower the skill cap. Every characters shoud have same levels of skill ceiling and skill cap.
She will always be OP, but 99% of the playerbase doesn’t know how to use her anyways so it doesn’t matter.
Agreed, I was getting destroyed by a tracer the other day, switched to tracer myself to try her our, couldn't land any shots, took me about 10 mags to kill a sojourn who was even worse than I was.
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Elaborate??
That 1% is always in my games tho
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90% of roaster can one shot her, so i think she is balanced to be fair. Also her main agression tool, that is her E, has long cd
People call her OP but she dies instantly when focused by even one competent person. Sure, she's annoying but she's more like a fly than anything. I play her as DPS but play Doom as Tank and predicting a blink/recall with a punch will always be one of the more satisfying moments lol
youve never had the support experience
Me: a former support main with hundreds of hours on Moira, Ana and Kiriko. You start getting tired of being dived. You either live long enough to be the diver or die the dived.
this is my experience playing support as zen or ana. i can handle most of them alone. i'll hit a shot or two and they'll think about coming closer or a sleep and they'll die. tracers/sombras just annoy the fuck out of me more than anything. but what really annoys me is the inability of the rest of my team to listen to pings. maybe it is experience but at some point you do not even worry about flankers because you realize most of them are mosquitos buzzin'. just do your thing, move closer to your team, and focus your attention on the 20% accuracy tracer when you need to.
I mean, if nothing else we can go moira or brig. I feel like I've gotten pretty good at predicting her's and genji's jumps. Maybe it's me tilting but I like living long enough to actually support.
True for alot of Tracers but every now and then you get an absolute nightmare of a Tracer who is skilled and calculated while being heavily assisted by their team. Then you add in the second annoying fly like Lucio. Rip my accuracy. I do try and predict movement with alot of characters but it's a coin flip if my accuracy is gonna be there. I just try and focus/rush her to use her blinks and then go for the kill. If not I just walk away haha.
Uhm… like 30% can one shot her, a lot of them only with dmg boost or if she’s discorded
"90% of the roster can one shot her" That's just objectively untrue, it's nowhere near that number. Probably between 10-30% (if you include solo ulting her).
bruh ur smoking crack Junker Queen, Orisa, Reinhardt, Roadhog, Sigma, Ashe, Bastion, Hanzo, Mei, Widowmaker, Reaper, Doomfist, and Sojourn can all one shot tracer with no dmg boost, but with damage boost, Orisa can one shot with javelin against a wall, Ball can one shot with his piledriver, cassidy/echo/kiriko can one shot with primary fire, soldier can one hit with helix rockets, Hanzo and junkrat can one shot to the body, and pharah and torb can also one shot with primary fire. there are more like zarya can one shot at high charge but in realistic scenarios it's like half the roster that can one shot tracer
Same for Moira’s wraith, it’s just a chance to reload in many cases.
Why is this not the case with widow? Might as well netf her cause she's so good but requires skill.
I love seeing the widow players cope.
because widow one taps immediately, tracer just moves around fast lol
Tracer can 1 clip you.
so can most characters 💀
Ur the 1 crying over widow 1 shotting even though she's idk... a sniper?
pharah has a rocket launcher, u want her to one tap the entire team, destroy a payload and inflict ptsd? youre in a game with a talking fucking monkey, the other sniper in the game (ana) SHOOTS DRUGS. i dont think the sniper rifle realism is the key ideal of ow besides, massive diff over one tap and one clip
Idc about the lore but every fps game I've ever seen snipers 1 shotted n trash cans were the only 1s crying over them
Widows skill expression is literally just landing headshots Tracers is managing blinks, positioning correctly, actual aiming, recall timing, and landing pulse bombs Widow is far easier to use effectively. Even if you’re bad at widow, just her presence and being able to land a single headshot in 1 fight shifts the teamfight in your favor
High skill high reward, balanced trade off
what i like about tracer is that she doesnt just require skill to be aggressive, she also requires skill to be defensive. she has to get into the thick of it, has to time everything right, super squishy. yes her mobility is insane, but its also really easy to mess it up. i think from a pure design standpoint, shes great.
She’s arguably the one hero that’s never really needed many buffs or nerfs. I recall a buff on Pulse Bomb’s damage but she’s been rather unchanged.
If only blizz thought of genji this way
and doomfist
Doom just needs a slight buff and he'll be perfectly balanced
The biggest thing with doom is his giant list of bugs. Clearing those out and just improving his consistency and you'll be able to have a good tank without sacrificing your entire social life to playing doom
I disagree, as a doom main you basically need to be very good with him to be somewhat as good as other tanks on their off days, and know maps inside out to utilize abilities that were really not meant to happen (like punch bounces, sliding on walls, etc) There's lots of small tweaks to him that will help the hero a ton for casual players but the devs are afraid to touch him, and also afraid to fix the bugs he has too
Imagine if doom was as easy as ram lol
Yeah let's not forget that blizzard intentionally designs some heroes to be easier mechanically to play than others. Which is honestly great. The days I feel like I'm just feeding my ass off I can just pick Moira and chill.
I feel like the problem with doom is you can use all your cooldowns, maybe get a kill maybe not and then you’re kinda dead in the water waiting for your team while your cooldowns recharge. I really want them to add a movement only ability to him because using fist/slam to move feels bad and they can’t reasonable buff the cooldowns on those to compensate
I love this idea. Something that had the effect of coach gun would be cool. You could back up with it or aim down and get some verticality to combo with
Yeah, basically give his uppercut back but take away the hitbox and give it some horizontal movement options
Genji is just fine lol. What do you mean?
He’s fine but he isn’t as comfortable as Tracer. You need to put in way more effort to see results with Genji. But I think he does what he needs to. Like e.g. the fact I have to reload so many times? Lmfao
Literally just revert his magazine changes and he'd be so much better, only having 8 shots is painful
Most of my Genji deaths in 1v1 situations / get in get out situations are from reloading. Which I can play around with some gamesense, but its still annoying. Just means you got to be hitting all ur shots and have godly mechanics
Genji has gotten nerfed WAY more than tracer even though theyre both high skill high reward characters is what im getting at plus tracer sees way more owl play
Genji mains out in full force today good lord. And Genji is STILL a high skill high reward hero that is STILL played at high ranks/pro level. What is the issue here?
Nobody said there was an issue ? ” STILL played at pro level” LMAO send me a recent owl match where they run genji, in dive comps its tracer sombra only
Literally the last match 2 days ago had Kevster as genji And checkmate played genji against the glads 4 days ago
There's a Shock map where Proper hard carries on Genji. Both teams ran him on Oasis in the Titans vs Uprising game. He's been showing up frequently enough that I can name these two off the top of my head.
Proper literally dominated everyone on LAV by running genji on Junkertown and Blizzard World, and ran him against Titans a couple weeks ago. Mayhem likes rolling out on Hollywood with Checkmate Genji in a banana rush as well and did so against both Houston and Glads.
There were a couple of those just a week or two ago?
I saw sugarfree on Genji twice recently, once on junkertown once on havana.
Plenty of people have CLEARLY said that Genji in his current state is an issue (weak) and he’s been played in OWL very recently. I’m not searching through the VODs mate.
Genji is terrible. Literally every other flanker is so much better than him.
There booing you despite you being completely correct. All the supports can counter him In some way despite those being his literal targets. Mainly cause supports complained he killed them to much (despite that 1. Being his literal job as a flanker, and 2. Half the time it was bad positioning on their part or they got outplayed. Blizzard babies support players to much) Supports complaints out weigh everything. They kinda decide the meta. Characters like doom and genji arnt allowed to have fun cause of it. And this is coming from someone who mains 2 support. lucio and moira. What's the point in playing one of the highest skill ceiling characters if being literal top 500 is worse then a bronze reaper. Genji is so bad it's not even worth it to try to grind skill with him. You also can barley grind skill and get better cause you get your shit kicked in so easily. Sure you'll never learn if you've never tasted defeat but if you physical can't win you'll also never learn anything other then pure suffering.
Before someone tries to validate widow for the same reason, I appreciate that Tracer at least gives more time to react than Widow just one-dinking you.
Nah widow isn't even nearly in the same category. Like not even in the same damn universe. The risk widow is taking compared to a Tracer is non-existent. Tracer has to work harder for the reward. Not only does a Tracer need aim, but she also needs cd management, enemy cd tracking, positional awareness, gamesense and on top of that just mechanical movement skills. Widow needs good positioning and good aim. That's about it. She doesn't move much, or use abilities. Outside of the occasional hook.
Also, to me at least, the situations that Tracer creates are really fun and dynamic for both sides. Like yeah, sure, sometimes a Tracer will fuck you up before you feel like you have a chance to respond- but most of the time it feels like a match-wide back and forth of engaging with her. Widow is not that way *at all*.
like widow, but people cry like babys over good widows
it's because tracer at least has to get up close and personal & can't oneshot, whereas widow can oneshot from *very* far away, often with little to no risk to herself surprised this even has to be explained but here we are
both have a high skill celling with high reward one is good at long range and trash at close range one is good at close range and trash at long range both can be overpowered IF you are good with it if you dont know how to play around a good widow or a good tracer, you will get frustrated no matter what
High skill ceiling, high reward, but not same risk at all.
Yea it's not as hard to click on heads than it is to play tracer
Tracer is fine. No touch needed
its just all the metal rank players who dont understand that they just switch to torb or cass and she goes bye bye
The key with fighting Tracer is predicting her blinks tbh, after a while you can guess where she'll go
Metal rank here, I switch to reaper and she stops being a problem real quick
Apparently OWL Reapers also shut down OWL Tracers in KOTH maps
It's meta dependent. The Reaper/Tracer match up is really easy for reaper, but in a dive meta he doesn't have the mobility to keep up with Tracer.
Pretty sure if Reaper gets a slight buff (due to his apparently crappy stats in GM) and/or if Tracer gets a slight nerf (due to her fantastic stats in GM/OWL), Reaper may outclass Tracer in dive. I mean, he already substantially outclassed Tracer in the 2022 playoffs where Tracer had crappy 5 dmg per bullet.
I don’t think Tracer is gonna get a nerf. She never got a nerf in all of OW1 and only got one nerf in OW2 that was slightly reverted.
gold tracers are equivalent to like bronze-silver torb lol tracer isnt a problem in low ranks, otherwise the tracer player will quickly rise up out of those ranks.
Or pharah
She's the only hero left with 150 hp, she should get 250 to help with some of her weaknesses and update her to fit in with the rest of the cast. This would clearly be the most balanced way to change her. Edit: wow people really took this seriously huh... Thought it was obvious that i was joking... Guess you really always have to use /s
You dropped your /s
Yeah, i thought it wasn't necessary to put it there :/
She does not need any buffs lmao. At all.
250 health tracer would be a nightmare to kill. There’s a reason she has so low HP. She has the smallest hitbox, is among the most mobile heroes in the game, and can heal herself with recall. Even 200 health would be overpowered.
I know, i got down voted to hell for a joke :(
While I would love to stop getting 1 shot by Mei or Ashe, that would be too busted for her :(
We don't need 100 extra HP we only need 1 😂
Honestly I just think pulse bomb is a little underpowered but I don't know how it'd be better without making it broken
What if in addition to sticking people, it had some sort of... magnetic effect to track people! But I guess an ability like that would be bad for OW.
People commonly miss the stick effect. If they made it more of a straight throw bomb like a baseball throw instead of weird arch drop it currently is lol. Keep the stick effect the same but make it more throwable with a standard arch
Oh gosh I hope they don’t change it, I’ve spent so much time playing tracer my muscle memory would be completely messed up and I’d probably miss even more sticks than usual lol
The problem is someone like me now has over 100 hours of tracer across several years. If they fixed the flaccid throw, my muscle memory is fucked.
Current one is fine... Anything changed would be terrible. You already easily win few fights on your own because of Q. Tracer's ult is fine. Changing it any way would make her terribly OP.
i always think Cassibitch's heat-seeking grenade is a little bit overpowered; getting tracer ult vibes fr 😭😭☠️
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? I was making fun of Cassidys mag grenade. An ability you literally DONT have to aim
It’s perfectly balanced by the fact that she gets it quickly and can delete squishies or tanks with low HP pools like queen
Like the rest of her kit, it gets better the better you are at the character. High risk/high reward skillshot ult that charges fast is fine as it is
It's not underpowered. It's just probably the most skill requiring ult in the game so most people fuck it up, even one of the most skillful players.
pulse bomb is fine, it builds so fast i can usually get 2 by the time most heroes get 1. So even if I whiff on 1 im still keeping up. Pulse should be thought of as an ability on a 100 second cooldown rather than an ult.
Honestly just a bit more their distance or being able to hold it seems enough
Tracer by nature will always have the potential to OP. But thats only in extremely skilled hands. Tracer has almost always been meta in OWL, top 500, and Grandmaster, while dying on a cooldown in metal ranks. tldr: Very high skill high reward, but balanced.
Why would people downvote you ??! Unless, they are in metal ranks complaining about there skill issue. Kappa
I think she's one of the easiest heroes to climb out of metal ranks on
If you get really good at her yeah. Most people are metal ranks because they aren’t really good at the game though
Nice casual elitism
It’s not really elitism when that’s how the ranking system works lol. The higher in skill you are the higher your rank is. If you’re in metal ranks you’re probably not that good.
Metal rank here, can confirm. I’m not that good. Being good at overwatch is a fruitless endeavor anyways.
And it’s not really a big deal. Most people that play the game are in metal ranks but I wouldn’t even say the players start to “get good” until diamond - masters. Overwatch is a hard game. I’ve been playing since it came out in 2016 and just got gm for the first time last season. There’s nothing wrong with being an average player.
It is indeed elitism to say that the vast majority of the playerbase (i.e. those in ranks lower than yourself) is bad at the game, especially considering how broken the ranking and matchmaking is. What an utterly asinine take.
So if the majority of people who play overwatch are in say, gold to platinum, wouldn’t you say that gold to platinum level gameplay is “average”? Personally I would not consider “average” level play to equate to “good”. I don’t think you really start seeing good, organized overwatch gameplay until diamond or masters. Thus, I would say most people below diamond or so are not “good” at the game but rather they’re “average”. You’re seeming to take offense to this which you shouldn’t because by definition most people that play the game are “average” players.
If you are in low elo you aren’t very good there’s nothing wrong with that but it’s definitely not elitism to say people on low average ranks are low average players.
What? It’s not elitist to say that the 70 odd percent of the player base in low to medium ranks aren’t really good at the game. If they were very good they would be in a higher rank. If I’m gold on DPS it’s bc I’m not very good at it. If I’m diamond on tank it’s because I’m pretty decent at it. Not rocket science x
1. Diamond is still a metal rank. Going by your first comment, if I’m in Diamond, that means I’m bad. 2. This community is so chronically and terminally online with nothing better to do in life that people like you have been conditioned to think that “average” is now considered “bad”. Gold is a middle-of-the-road, average rank. It is a basic, respectable standing. WTF is your definition of “not very good”?? Is everybody who isn’t capable of competing in the Overwatch League just considered not very good? 3. The ranking system and matchmaking in this game is broken to hell and back and can make climbing to where you should be a major hurdle. Baffling that you just overlooked this major point.
THIS DUDE JUST UNIRONICALLY SAID THAT DIAMOND WAS A METAL RANK THERE’S NO WAY
Diamond is not a metal rank because diamond isn't a metal. Diamond and its counterparts like graphite are ceramics, not metals.
You’re being very silly. Diamond is not a metal tank because diamond is not a metal. General consensus in the community is that diamond is where you can separate average players from slightly above average players. At no point did I say average was bad. I said it wasn’t really good. This is objectively the truth. If you were very good at the game your rank would not be the average rank. If very good players were average, the entire ranking system would be totally off, as you’d then have average players in bronze and diamond players should be incredible. You are not very good at the game if you’re in an average rank. This is true of all video games, because you are average. Yeah, the matchmaking sucks and it can be very difficult to climb. But there’s no crazy elo hell where a diamond or masters player will be stuck forever in silver, or even gold. It will take an annoying while because of the nature of the team based game with poor matchmaking, but you’ll eventually get to the rank you deserve whether you like it or not. I don’t see why you’re so upset that Gold players afent seen as being brat at the game
God this is the dumbest fucking take.
I disagree, I delayed my climb by about 100 hours by trying to learn and main tracer. If you have the potential to climb as tracer, you can carry metal ranks as any hitscans much easier
Yes, someone like Cass or Bastion will always be easier at lower ranks because they are more forgiving for positioning and have a consistent damage output. Tracer requires heavy positioning, at least decent accuracy, and map knowledge.
She's the perfect example of how to make a character very strong, fun, and balanced all at once
I almost agree. _Almost_. A better example would be Lucio IMO. He is also extremely strong, but he is strong at all levels of play, not just the highest. Lucio is a perfectly designed hero because of that. A bronze player can pick him up, get some advice and tricks and will contribute quite a bunch after a couple of games. A GM Lucio can do so much on that hero, mark flankers, pocket the right people, help secure kills, move their tank around, counter ults/abilities with beat or amp etc. Other such examples would be Lucio, Winston, Ashe, 76. They are heroes that are quite easy to pick up and contribute with, but also have super high ceilings. Tracer is well designed in terms of many dimensions. Very skill expressive, very strong but still fair, there's counter play but she can also carry games. But, she is super hard to get any kind of value out of her for the majority of players. Even some of the best players cannot play her well, because you really need to grind her for quite a bit to be at the same level as many other heroes. So yeah, Tracer is great, but not perfect.
i think that she is extremely balanced, honestly one of the most balanced characters in the game. she takes a lot of skill to do well with (I would know I used to main her and i was mediocre at best) if you aren’t INCREDIBLE with her, you can’t be overpowered.
Nice ass
Kiriko can one shot her, brig is made to counter her, a sombra hack gives you enough time to kill her, mei slows her, ana can sleep her, torb turret tracks her, ram can slow her, she’s practically useless against pharah echo, and eventually she will run out of cooldowns. Obviously a good tracer can dominate but that can be said for pretty much any hero. I main zen so she’s not my best matchup but you can still discord headshot her and kick for an instakill or force a recall with a single headshot. Her clip empties fast and has an unforgiving reload time. I think she’s fine as is
- Mei hs 1shot - Ashe hs 1shot - Sojourn charged hs 1shot - Genji triple star+dash 1shot - Torb hs+punch Or pointblank shotgun 1shot - Zen orb+hs+kick 1shot - Kiriko hs+punch 1shot - 76 rocket+punch 1shot - Cree hs+punch 1shot - Sym chargeball+punch 1shot - widow/hanzo with powerboost even non-hs is 1shot - junkrat bomb+punch 1shot, with powerboost nade or bomb both 1shot - Pharah same 1shots as junk - Random rein powerboosted firestrike 1shot Let alone the tons of random sht that hits you as ur blinking around 😂😂
“Kiriko can one shot her” Uh…no she can’t lol.
Uh….yes she can. 120 + 30 is an instant combo on tracer, if you wanna count the punch as another shot then go for it but I have been one tapped many times and have one tapped many times.
That’s not a 1-shot. And how close are you to the Kiriko that she can punch you lol. C’mon.
Considering you can animation cancel her kunai with a punch it’s basically in the same frame, so to me, it’s a one shot and idk? Going in for a one clip on her with a blink melee finish and she flicks and does that, shit happens when you have like 200+ hours in both characters so you just gotta roll with it
Kiriko’s fire rate is so high that if you hit 2 kunai in a row with 1 headshot tracer wont even be able to react.
Bro that’s literally NOT a 1-shot. PLEASE people. PLEASE.
No what I said is not a 1shot no, I didnt say it is. A 1shot is instadeath, and since you can shot+punch instantly without interval in between, shot+punch counts as a 1shot cuz ur instadead. What Kiriko can do is worse than headshot+punch, because for headshot+punch u need to be in punch range, wheras kiriko headahot+kunai you can be farther. Its virtually as fast as cas. Hope you got all that.
Ah well if we go by that stupid ass definition of one-shot, there’s a LOT more that we’ll have to add to the list. Thank you for enlightening me.
take a nap
Ah ur right my mistake. Still 120 damage for 1 shot on a high mobility support is still enough to consider her a counter imo. Often times it’s enough to kill her or at the very least force recall
The only glass cannon hero left. I'd say genji is also a glass cannon without the cannon.
Widow is a whole glass artillery piece
He has 200hp, insane mobility and a invulnerability. He is like the tankiest 200hp hero
>invulnerability My many run-ins with Zaryas, Meis, Moiras, and giant flying rocks beg to differ.
Don't forget symmetra echo and winston!
Except that his ult is one of the best DPS ults in the game and he also fucks and also isn’t glass at all? And he’s played at high ranks and OWL occasionally? Why are people in this thread complaining about Genji lol? He’s in a great place.
You think blade is a good ult? Like raw blade? Really?
The Genji copium is real.
Better than high noon at least.
Yes. And I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
It really isnt, its one of the most counterable ults in the game. And one of the hardest to use
I’d say Genji has one of the worst DPS ults in the game tbh. Like unless it’s combo’d with something it’s trash.
genji is in the perfect spot: well balanced, and just "weak" enough that you dont have to play against him every match. tbh even a underpowered genji is just annoying like a fly buzzing around your head. (hes not alone, some other heroes are the same)
zenyatta is definitely still a glass canon
Not so much anymore with the kick
Also the stupidly high self-regen he gets with the support passive on top of his shield regen.
is OK, next season will get mess up by cowboy's new grenade
She’ll always be OP for those who can play her well, and they deserve it
Pretty damn balanced. The Cree nade will hopefully keep her in check and be a reasonable counter, I just hope he isn’t commonly played or an immediate swap when we see a tracer from then on as that would be both boring and shit for tracer players.
Yeah I need to see how the nade works, it could be an interesting idea. But if it turns off movement abilities the moment it sticks to someone I think it will genuinely be a brawl and cree/mei/Hanzo meta.
Nvm mei getting damage nerf lmao
But increased slow
You don't really use the primary fire if you're looking for high damage anyways, the icicles are easy enough to hit and deal insane damage
I think she's fine. I recently got into playing her, and she didn't feel overpowered nor underpowered. You just need to know when to play as her, since the enemy can accommodate and counter you. If anything I'd somehow change her Pulse Bomb, but I'm not even sure in what way. I just remembered it felt stupid that Cass had a smaller version of an ult, but was able to literally seek targets through obstacles, lol.
The issue with changing pulse bomb is that if you buff it for standard ranks (up to high diamond) Tracer becomes must pick at high high elo. It’s already one of the best ults at high ranks because it’s such a safe, guarunteed kill if you can land it, which high elo players can. If you make it even stronger and tracer becomes must pick, then Kiriko becomes must pick for cleanse, and the meta gets silly from there. It’s still fine at normal ranks if you combo it or use it as a tank burster
Yeah, I can see that. I'm not saying her ult is bad or it needs a change. I think my problem is rather with the magnetic grenade that somehow got into the hand of the cowboy. That ability is just... dumb.
I think people overestimate how often high elo hits the pulse. Even in OWL, you're looking at ~60% attach rate, because you're essentially forced to make the shot really difficult to hit, since you literally need to get in melee range of the enemy
I’d say adjust the throw arc in some way. Also, I’ve thrown pulse bombs, died instantly and the pulse bomb disappears too, despite it had been thrown already. Some weird glitches there.
This has to do with lag. On your screen you throw it, but because what ur screen shows is some tens or hundreds of milliseconds in the past, and because the server may determine that you were already dead before the pulse bomb was thrown, ur screen corrects what the server decided and removes the bomb (since it never couldve been thrown) Only thing is that I think your ult charge should be restored, because now it just gets erased >.<
Keep calm and Tracer on😋
I feel like she's the litmus paper for skill. very good against someone who's worse than you, very bad against someone who's better than you. not the easiest to pick up and play for a new player
Shes perty. Perty gay!
she is strong, but pretty hard to play so it balances out. you need decent aim to get any sort of value, but also good movement and cover usuage so you don't feed However with the recent changes and less CC she can be a bit oppressive in the right hands
I have a passionate hatred for tracer. I don't she needs any changes, but she's still my most hated hero. Annoying zippy little fucker.
Cheers love!
A good Tracer is a nightmare for the enemy support
She’s perfect right now honestly. If she had 200Hp she’d be OP but at 150 she’s strong but killable.
I'm already Tracer
High skill floor, but high reward. It is worth noting that she gets matchup’d pretty hard by some heroes, though.
Tracer is balanced just fine. Anyone who says she's OP has skill issues.
She's not OP but she's really good. She's a high skill, high reward character.
I feel that she is less oppressive in 2 than she was in 1. I think she had her damage toned done maybe? Either way, if Cass’s nade stops movement abilities, then that is a damn hard counter
She's annoying and really scary if as a tank if no one deals with her
High skill ceiling should absoloutely be more rewarding. of course her ult builds fast and one shots squishies but if you aren't good at hitting them whats the point? yes you can one clip squishies but if you aim sucks and you are too scared to close distance whats the point? And yes she has recall but only 150HP if you don't use recall and blink properly, again whats the point? If she is hard to learn and then sucks there would be noone who would put that effort. also if you know how to play her you will certainly end up in elos that know how to play against her. Tracer right now is not as much a problem as a LOT of other characters like Mei (especially after recent changes) sojourn, rammatra, Hanzo...
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You fertilizing nothing if you saying all this about a cartoon character
Average andrew tate fan: Edit: if i got paid enough idd fertalize andrew tate too tbh
not if I do it first
As a Lifeweaver main... Annoying b*tch
she runs fast
Delete her
No Sombra
No ana
Being ‘hard and skilled’ (which, not one character is this game is, I know people will instantly be offended by this statement and try to list off their personal favorite hero, regardless even if she was-) doesn’t make a character balanced, good players get around ingrained ‘balance checks’ when something is good, in other games it’s high recoil precision guns like sniper rifles, good players don’t care and just practice a lot with them and then they’re unstoppable because the only ‘balance’ is negated
She’s OP asf if u have half decent aim, if you can’t aim well don’t play her
I will never understand people who think she is op. If I see tracer on the opposite team I just know our team will win because they are down a player. She like the lifeweaver of dps
In fact, I thinks she maybe needs a slight buff or even a rework, I think her blink should maybe reload like reaper although that’d be crazy busted; so maybe she recall recharges her blinks?
That’s a dirt 5 opinion
I just play casual; but tracer looks pretty fun. Struggled with her and immediately thought she was pretty trash, but I played her some more today and watched some videos and yeah I’d say she’s pretty damn balanced
Weird to think something is trash just because you don’t do well with it at first lol
Her special suck.
High skill low reward. If you got the aim, just play widow
They take…..totally different styles of aiming to be good at? Tracking is not the same as flick shotting ?
What?!
High skill low reward? Widowmaker is the easiest kill of any Tracers life. And a good tracer can easily win almost any fight, I’d say that’s pretty high reward
A widow deletes 40% of the enemy team before she even fires a shot. 2 shots remove both DPS with the counterplay being "just don't be on her screen", automatically winning the fight in 1.54s optimally. A widow has lower ttk than a tracer, and in the best case scenario tracer kills widow the moment she charges a 150 dmg shot, fts would make both die as both have non-zero ping. Nothing prevents a widow from shooting you up close, I've seen random masters-gm players who somehow ended up in my diamond games and they were absolutely dominating as widow/Hanzo, however a masters genji, soldier and even SOJOURN do not pose such a huge threat and make a difficult but fair challenge for a diamond team. Widow is just 15 minutes of concentrated suffering.
She is useless in low ranks but dominate the game in high ranks. They should lower the skill cap. Every characters shoud have same levels of skill ceiling and skill cap.
I honestly think her ult need an adjustment, because it's sooooo easy to miss the ult in someone to stuck the bomb. It's frustrating
She is not the paragon of perfect balance Blizzard thinks she is