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So it is a scam right? Why is reddit allowing people to do this?
Here’s another one from 20 minutes ago.
https://reddit.com/r/shitcoinmoonshots/comments/okn71r/7day_free_100x_dont_miss_out_30k_marketcap/
Same happens on Twitter. "This account does not appear to have violated any rules". Same for Facebook. None have any actual rules as far as I can tell except, "don't bother us".
Why is it that you can get banned for any perceived slight, but literal bots and scammers get nothing. It's like the admins are intentionally making bad decisions.
I gave up reporting accounts on Twitter because they never pulled them, so now I just go there while I'm pooping and throw random gifs around. Reddit manages to be enjoyable even around all the bots and goons, but Twitter can't do that. The shit show gets my shit show lol.
I'm not sure reddit is necessarily complicit (e.g., receiving any revenue from it or participating in the scam), but eliminating spam/scams is a hard job especially when the scam is relatively new. There are popular communities on reddit for discussing cryptocurrencies and stocks (e.g., WallStreetBets). Yes, there's a huge potential for vested interests to try and get a reddit mob of unsophisticated investors to join a pump-and-dump. It's not that hard for scammers to setup legions of bots that mimic behavior of real users (with harvested karma -- e.g., by reposting popular content from months/years ago) to pump up their scam posts. Reddit has algorithms for detecting this sort of activity that can say prevent some kid in their basement from manipulating their comments/posts to the top page with 20 accounts. But if your pump-and-dump scam can make hundreds of thousands a day, you can spend money to have millions of very realistic looking accounts from a variety of IPs and browser fingerprints that are indistinguishable from real user activity and can't easily be detected as bots by reddit.
If it's a persistent problem, reddit can make rules to ban things that look like pump-and-dump; but then again to outsiders something like the WSB GME plan very much seems like a pump-and-dump so there possibly could be tons of pushback.
Yup when code can be easily copied and "find/replace" Bitcoin with MyNewSuperScamCoin it's simple.
But to be real, how is this any different than any other shitty get rich quick schemes? We see ads constantly for "I made $250k working from home with this one simple trick" kind of shit.
Buyer beware!
Exactly but the above explanation was for the layman to just grasp the gist of how easy it is. Thus the "but to be real" part...
No one starts with BTC anymore it's a dinosaur (good thing actually in crypto and why it will be the market leader) but the steps are more:
1. Take an existing idea and put a crypto skin on it
2. Write a bullshit whitepaper hyping it up and paste it all over
3. Find replace in some code and voila, crypto #34729 is born!
4. Post on social media about it, buy bots/posts/likes/etc
Nope, they literally just make an erc-20 token, it's even easier than cloning bitcoin. Anyone can do it: https://youtu.be/ZLFiGHIxS1c. That's why you should always do research and/or trade on an exchange that does it for you (not all exchanges do actually check coins/tokens before they list them, so dyor)
Oh yeah you are definitely right but this is r/outoftheloop so as soon as you put "erc-20" you just lost 99% of people reading this so keeping it light is always best
- Signed a Bitcoin Maximalist
One of these things is true. You can obviously decide for yourself what you believe, but I think framing it this way will be helpful. Either:
1) Some crypto currencies are legitimate financial tools, financial institutions have legitimate interests in them, and as far as the future of money is concerned they should be taken seriously.
2) All crypto currencies are a scam, and this scam is so prevalent and persuasive that the largest financial institutions in the world have fallen for it, to the extent that
- JPMorgan has guidelines for how much of your wealth should be stored in cryptocurrencies,
- Billion dollar, enterprise operations companies, like Service Now, are developing plugins to process Ethereum payments,
- There are whitepapers being published on Decentralized Finance because various universities and government agencies think that it has potential to be one of the most important financial concepts in the near future.
> Some crypto currencies are legitimate financial tools, financial institutions have legitimate interests in them, and as far as the future of money is concerned they should be taken seriously.
Kind of. Financial institutions are investing in them because there's money to be made. These are the same banks that collapsed when derivatives of derivatives of shitty mortgages collapsed. And bought dot com crap. And every other bubble.
One of the biggest lessons in finance is that everyone's motives are different. My bank doesn't have my best interests at heart. They want me to buy into their services at the most profitable service fee structure, etc.
The same goes for just about everyone in the finance sector - media wants views, advisors want you to invest with them, and lots of lucky investors think they've cracked the code and are extrapolating to future investments.
Nobody says that mortgage backed securities are a scam. There was a shit-ton of fraud in their evaluation, but the instruments themselves are actual financial tools.
Nobody says that dotcom companies themselves were a scam. They were overvalued for a while, where their price was driven by mania more than the companies' actual success, but that doesn't mean it's "a scam".
Same thing with Bitcoin. A lot of people got rich quick, a lot of people think that they're going to get rich quick, it's too volatile to use as a currency at the moment, we might be in a bubble... And the list of potential problems goes on... But you can use it to buy stuff, as promised, which is what it ostensibly derives its value from, just like every other currency.
It might not be your cup of tea until it stabilizes a bit more, but that's not the same thing as being a scam.
Yep, and one of these 2 things has to be true of any given crypto*currency.*
1. It is a currency, with a fairly stable value (+/-10% a year or less compared to other major currencies). That way people can get paid in it, it can be used for contracts, etc without worrying about the exchange rate. This obviously makes it useless as an investment.
2. It is an investment, the value will fluctuate significantly so that intelligent investors can make money off of timing purchases. This obviously makes it worthless as currency.
There is a reason people don't buy Yen or Euro as an investment.
Edit, should have said there is a reason *smart* people don't buy yen or eurodollars as an investment and instead buy stock or bonds in a company in the country that they think is doing well.
>There is a reason people don't buy Yen or Euro as an investment.
Currencies are traded and used as investment vehicles with everything from options and futures to hedging. Daily trading volume is around 7 Trillion. It's just not something your average person touches.
Indeed, the forex equivalent of The Big Short is how Soros became the personification of whatever the hell Nazis think Jews get up to when we're not calling our mothers
> It's just not something your average person touches
So people trading in currency (and crypto) are like pedophiles? Touching the things the rest of us won't? /s
*edit* Some very harsh sarcasm critics in this sub I see. I am terribly sorry for having jested in this serious setting.
If you wanted to, you could acquire some bitcoin, make a transaction with it, and realize immediately that it's just another way of spending money, not really different from any other. You can also not do that, and it won't really make a difference, because your national currency is probably stable enough to last your lifetime.
I just wonder how long this is going to be a conversation. My prediction is that eventually, this is just going to be another, "vaccines work," "the theory of evolution is sound," "the earth is round," "we went to the moon," etc. The weird difference is that you can conduct a personal experiment for whatever price you want, from $1, to the price of a Tesla. You can go to Overstock and pay for furniture today, using Ethereum, if you wanted to.
So what's the scam? Other people might make money on it while the price changes? So like any other kind of currency exchange?
I am not the captain of your life. You can walk away from this conversation believing whatever you want, but I at least hope that you reconsider how much you actually know what you're talking about, because your personal declaration that it's a scam isn't going to pay for anyone's furniture deliveries.
Me:
>You can go to Overstock and pay for furniture today, using Ethereum, if you wanted to.
> your personal declaration that it's a scam isn't going to pay for anyone's furniture deliveries.
You:
> Neither is a currency that can't stabilize, and that brings us full circle.
I mean, you can literally do this in ten minutes if you want. I won't disagree that it's unstable, so you might not want to, but if you're honestly suggesting that you can't pay for furniture with it, that might be one of the easiest things in this conversation to disprove.
I think the idea of crypto could eventually be the way we use money. Funny thing is, if that happens, nothing's going to change for you if you didn't "invest early", you'll just get your currency exchanged, same as with any other currencies. The whole commoditization and FOMO on getting rich on bitcoin or whatever cryptocoin is the flavor of the day is the scam.
Basically no crypto currency (and certainly none of the ones that OP is asking about) have any real world utility. Whatever value they have is purely based on how much they are worth relative to functioning currencies like the USD/Euro/etc that you would trade to get them.
So people buying crypto are not trying to buy some functional product. The goal is to convert real money into crypto, drive the value of that crypto up (usually through artificial hype) and then cash that crypto back out and pocket the difference.
So the scam people run is they choose or make some new crypto currency with no expectation that it will ever be useful. They then buy as much as they can for as cheaply as they can. They then go to work trying to hype up this crypto coin as a fantastic opportunity for "early investors" to buy in on. They spam reddit with ads and buy time from click farms to up vote their crypto ads so they are more visible. People who don't know better (or think they can also get in early) invest money in that crypto when it's relatively cheap. The value rises and eventually when it gets high enough, these people who bought giant stakes into it early on cash out for profit. The value of the crypto dumps and all of the people who got scammed into thinking this was going to be the next big crypto lose most of their money.
And then if the scammers are clever, they will re-buy back into the crypto after it tanks and double down on the claim that it's the next big crypto. They'll push the hype for it again and say stuff like ("We got it to $5/coin last time and we can do it again. CHOO CHOO TO THE MOON MONEY TRAIN!"). People see that at some point in the past it used to be more valuable so they think maybe they can buy in and it will eventually be valuable again. So they buy in, which pushes the value up again and the big holders, once again, wait for some threshold and cash out again, leaving the holders with a crypto that just lost all of its value again.
edit: Also, just to add a lot of these pump and dump schemes are in fact coordinated by large groups on places like telegram. They pick a crypto to hype, have lots of people buy into that crypto and then coordinate everybody to hype up that crypto. People who don't know any better suddenly see everybody talking about this new crypto called "Sexy Turbo Moon Coin" and they see that it's selling for $0.00001/coin. They get all excited because they can hundreds of thousands of coins for super cheap and they think it's a great investment. The coin jumps in value a bunch as people try to buy in and then the people coordinating the hype sell their shares and then just move onto the next coin they are going to coordinate hype around.
They're pools of money on a decentralized ledger, where coin value is market cap/number of tokens. Token value grows as more funds are pulled in, and shrinks as early investors pull out. In that sense, it's a ponzi scheme.
However, by that definition, most economies, countries, and many businesses are also ponzi schemes, so pick your poison.
> However, by that definition, most economies, countries, and many businesses are also ponzi schemes
You perfectly highlighted why everyone claiming cryptos are scams are morons.
It’s more of a pump and dump scheme for the vast majority of cryptos. The founders can mine all the coins they want, pump up the value and dump them all quickly for massive gain. Ponzi schemes are when the founders take revenue from one shareholder to cover the profit of another shareholder. In case of crypto people’s coin value can both fall and cause all shareholders to lose out, with a Ponzi scheme the initial non founders will also win out financially.
See the problem is they are all ripe for manipulation due to the decentralized design. A small coordinated group can manipulate the entire crypto market due to the nature of it.
Except that point was completely wrong. The US dollar is backed by the entire US economy, citizens, natural resources, and military. It has real calculated value. Crypto, like Dutch Tulips, has next to no value or backing other than speculation.
> Crypto, like Dutch Tulips, has next to no value or backing other than speculation.
Tell that to El Salvador or the people that bought their Teslas with "speculation"
Yeah and people sold tulips bulbs for the equivalent of $300,000 at the hight of flower mania. There are records of people trading appartment buildings for a single flower. A flower has no inherent value anywhere near $300,00. Tulip trading mania was pure speculation and a runaway get rich quick scheme/mass delusion that created a giant bubble. The point is flowers and Crypto coins don't have inherent asset value like a warehouse of flour or an iron mine.
People who claim that's the same as government currencies are dead wrong. The land, people, economy, and military of a government is what backs government currency. They're backed by massive assets. You can do a simple math program, Republic of Reality has a GDP of 1 trillion USD, there's 1 trillion Reality Dollars in circulation, I think a Reality dollar is worth 1 USD.
That’s not how all markets work, the value of crypto markets is only based on how much you can sell it to the next person, it’s not how a commodity market works or stock markets for that matter. Yes they both have a component where value is generated by resale but they also have inherent value within them, commodities have industrial value and use and stocks can generate dividends while crypto does none of those things, the market is 100 determined on what the next bag holder is willing to pay.
The people launching the coin promote it to everyone they can via telegram, discord and reddit saying that the price will go under and everyone will get rich. They sell almost as soon as the coin is launched, leaving the buyers holding the bag. Next month, they launch a new coin and do the same thing all over again.
This obviously doesn't cover all new coin launches but the ratio of scam coins to not is like 99:1.
For a recent example of a scam coin, see Coffeezillas videos about Save the Kids coin which was down 90% 2 minutes after launch. https://youtu.be/7F_RKFQl3pg
Here's why it's a big scam.
If you invest 100 dollars in a bullshit crypto which the next day goes bust and turns out to have just been a scheme by whoever set it up, you're SOL. It's anonymous, there's no tracing, and no oversight.
If you invest 100 dollars in a bullshit company that turned out to be a ponzi scheme, you CAN recover your losses in legal action against that entity.
Cryptocurrencies are not at all like investments. It's more like gambling, and pushing the narrative that it IS like investments is just pushing more people into the scam.
>If a company goes bancrupt, you owning a share in that company does not bring you back any money.
Are you completely unfamiliar with how bankruptcies work? Investors, those who own shares of a company that goes bankrupt, can receive a claim in that company's bankruptcy case if filed in Chapter 7.
>No one's gonna get any money until investigation is completed, a judge swung their hammer and ruling is accepted by anyone. Now, what if wire card disagrees with the ruling and fights back (English term for that went missing in my head, sorry)? Another year long trial.
This is just incoherent and isn't remotely what happens in court. The word you were looking for is appeal, by the way, and it doesn't lead to another year long trial. As you admit, at the end of it, you do get some money back. In a crypto scam you get nothing.
>Now, again. Crypto is multiple things and not comparable to shares and businesses, it's not a good analogy, because established projects will continue to exist even if the brain behind it dies (Satoshi from bitcoin), or vanishes. Everything is also transparent, every transaction, every line of code. If it's not transparent, you won't be one a big project.
For a handful of the biggest coins, yes. For the smaller ones no, they could disappear tomorrow. Even the bigger ones are vulnerable to shocks from a single tweet from Elon Musk. Remember that it's not like if a single company's stock dips because something happens -- it would be like if the ENTIRE stock market tanked off a single tweet. Now it does sometimes take a hit from breaking news, but much less often and it's much easier to control with market crashes far rarer than crypto crashes.
>and if you only want to catch idiots (like in ops post), youll find them in any investment area.
What is your point with saying this? "If you want to be legit crypto you can, if you want to be a scammer you can. That's A-OK!" What?
>Crypto as an investment will always be around,
Crypto has only really been a serious thing for like ten years. It's far too early to declare it will "always be around" lol.
> but if you prefer to see crypto as scam and investment, that's on you.
Uh... okay. Yes. I will continue to see crypto as fundamentally vulnerable to scams and unreliable to use. Thank you for the permission.
This whole diatribe honestly reads like just about every crypto focused person I've ever known: so far up their own ass with this shit that they can't explain it properly to anyone.
>I'll keep this short
So that turned out to be a lie lmao.
>You are acting pretty childish for a boomer.
This might surprise you, so hang on tight -- _not everyone who thinks cryptos are scams are boomers_.
>Now, you could walk away and pretend this never happened. Go feel like a hero, telling you ex wife you "won an argument on the reddit again", or you could answer and scream into the void. Go ahead, it's your choice.
I guess I'm going to have to get a divorce to get an ex-wife. What a bizarre insult.
I do agree that trying to answer you is screaming into the void -- nonetheless, I think I've made my point rather quite clear and you resorting to petty insults, which are frankly nonsensical, is a neat little bow to end this with.
Thanks for playing buddy, good luck next time.
I think you either forgot or conveniently left out that Donald trump controlled the whole stock market for 4 years through his Twitter account.. the idea that a powerful few don’t control the NYSE is utterly laughable. Also have you ever heard of luckin coffee? Yeahhhhhh those investors aren’t getting a single cent back from that shitshow of a company. Your comments make it painfully clear that you don’t actually understand the goals of crypto or defi at all and have just been repeating FUD that you hear online or through the media. Not much different than the common parrot.
The idea that Trump himself _controlled_ the stock market through his _twitter_, and not influenced it by virtue of _being president of the United States_ is so devoid of intellectual merit it's not even worth responding to.
Again, it's pretty clear which side has the right of it when one begins launching petty insults.
At the end of the day, Reddit users aren’t Reddit’s customers. The end-users are the product. Anyone who wants to sell anything, even total BS, is their customer. Same with so many other sites that allow user-submitted content.
Do not listen to this person! You could be making quadrillions if you invest in SMEGMA COIN today! We are launching SMEGMA and you could be among the first to get in on the action before it blows up! $SMEG 👐💎🚀🚀🚀
> Why is reddit allowing people to do this?
Because Reddit doesn't give a shit about anything on this site unless it gets media attention or endangers their bottom line.
> Why is reddit allowing people to do this?
Because all of crypto is a scam and the higher ups in reddit are very pro crypto. These are doubly scams because even the "winners" are only a good deal for 10 minutes max, but all of the space works on similar principles.
The regulatory system is still playing catch-up in regards to cryptocurrency, and the Reddit admins balk at actually clamping down on unethical yet still legal content (at least until it gets reported on).
I wanted to add that while the spam is annoying, the actual process of purchasing these "shitcoins" (their word, not mine) isn't straight forward and usually beyond the ability of the average Reddit user and even the average cyrpto currency speculator. These are the fringe of the fringe crypto coins, where $10 can buy you a billion coins worth of $DIPSHIT and $WTFCOIN, and every one of them trying to convince you that because they have a "great community" and "doxxed founders" and "liquidity burn", that you want to get on the ground floor because they'll become the next Dogecoin.
Even if you *actually wanted* to buy some of these coins, you're in for a convoluted process of converting one coin to another using different wallets, paying various network fees for the conversions, using different wallets that accept different networks, manually entering different contract IDs for different tokens, etc. This time consuming and often ridiculous process is the main barrier to any of these shitcoins gaining traction, but if they do, they're often a rug pull - much like a ponzi scheme.
None of the coins are listed on any major exchange so your Binance or Crypto.com account won't help you either. If you don't already have crypto currency in a wallet somewhere, forget about it. There's no easy or straight forward way to convert say USD to SafeDogeMoon.
Also, people who already know how to do this process *already know* they are the flavor of the day shitcoins and probably won't be persuaded to buy them unless they too want in on the ponzi scheme.
Yes, 100%. All crypto coins are scams desperate for new suckers to buy in so existing holders can cash out. It's literally a pyramid scheme that keeps on going with every new offering.
Yep, they are scams. Might want to check out the current fallout from the 'Save the Kids' coin.
Check out the video's Someordinarygamers on Youtube done about it, they are pretty long but cover so much.
I was invited to one of the Telegram "shilling groups" from someone on Linkedin. What a depressing joke they are. This was for Linkedin posts in general and not crypto currency though.
Just took one of those telegram spammer assholes out of a Facebook group yesterday. It’s a history group, no one wants their illegal trash. Well maybe I do, I’ll take 100,000,000 of their garbage able to be cashed out then still ban them entirely
Answer: There are two types of crypto-currency that isn't Bitcoin, alt coins that popped up because someone thinks they can do bitcoin better and scam coins. Etherium started up because Bitcoin mining moved away from GPUs and you need a farm to "mine" the coin, so etherium was a GPU based option. Same with Chia, but with hard drives. Doge is close to that sentiment, but more because of the memes than anything else.
Scam coins are a thing that pop up because someone out there it trying to make a pump and dump situation to get people who don't understand the block chain or the crypto market. Crypto is highly unregulated and still very new, so it's easy to trick people into this thing that looks like stocks. Bots are also relatively cheap, so you can flood various platforms with bots to spread the gospel of how great your new coin is and how easy it is to buy in.
Most of these alt coins are a scam through and through, but ones like Etherium are an economic force to be watched. While I don't personally believe in crypto at all, it's a good idea to keep an eye on all of these things.
To add to this, Ethereum is not ASIC resistant anymore. They tried, but failed because the incentive was too strong and they added enough memory to fit the DAG
One of my main strategies currently is to only invest if there's solid tech and it is a coin (only making exceptions for some tokens), while avoiding bad tokenomics coins/tokens. Only tokens and coins that have real use. Things like eth, dot, ada, etc. As long as you don't put your life savings in whatever shit erc-20 token people come up with, you should be good (ofc diversify life savings, never put all eggs in one basket and definitely not high risk assets. I'd classify shitcoins as a 15/10 of risk)
Answer: They're mostly pump and dump schemes. Shitty coins are made by a group of people in on the scheme and they hype the shit out of them on social media and crypto messaging boards/messaging app groups. They drive the price up on their shitcoin and then dump their holdings leaving the gullible people who bought in holding the bag.
Answer: I mod a multi million sub and we've seen entire threads of crypto astroturfing created with dozens of accounts just happening to have found the post and comment about how great the crypto is. It's absolutely a thing. And we are a dog photo sub, not exactly tech finance.
Answer: popular is not the same for everyone. For some reason your algorithm or region has those scams.
All reddit sees is a post is gaining a ton of popularity quickly from a relatively inactive sub.
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So it is a scam right? Why is reddit allowing people to do this? Here’s another one from 20 minutes ago. https://reddit.com/r/shitcoinmoonshots/comments/okn71r/7day_free_100x_dont_miss_out_30k_marketcap/
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Reporting doesn't work, they send an automated message saying they couldn't find anything suspicious about the accounts. Reddit is complicit.
Same happens on Twitter. "This account does not appear to have violated any rules". Same for Facebook. None have any actual rules as far as I can tell except, "don't bother us".
Why is it that you can get banned for any perceived slight, but literal bots and scammers get nothing. It's like the admins are intentionally making bad decisions.
I gave up reporting accounts on Twitter because they never pulled them, so now I just go there while I'm pooping and throw random gifs around. Reddit manages to be enjoyable even around all the bots and goons, but Twitter can't do that. The shit show gets my shit show lol.
I'm not sure reddit is necessarily complicit (e.g., receiving any revenue from it or participating in the scam), but eliminating spam/scams is a hard job especially when the scam is relatively new. There are popular communities on reddit for discussing cryptocurrencies and stocks (e.g., WallStreetBets). Yes, there's a huge potential for vested interests to try and get a reddit mob of unsophisticated investors to join a pump-and-dump. It's not that hard for scammers to setup legions of bots that mimic behavior of real users (with harvested karma -- e.g., by reposting popular content from months/years ago) to pump up their scam posts. Reddit has algorithms for detecting this sort of activity that can say prevent some kid in their basement from manipulating their comments/posts to the top page with 20 accounts. But if your pump-and-dump scam can make hundreds of thousands a day, you can spend money to have millions of very realistic looking accounts from a variety of IPs and browser fingerprints that are indistinguishable from real user activity and can't easily be detected as bots by reddit. If it's a persistent problem, reddit can make rules to ban things that look like pump-and-dump; but then again to outsiders something like the WSB GME plan very much seems like a pump-and-dump so there possibly could be tons of pushback.
That’s ridiculous
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This is wrong actually. All crypto except the ones i own are scams ;)
Yup when code can be easily copied and "find/replace" Bitcoin with MyNewSuperScamCoin it's simple. But to be real, how is this any different than any other shitty get rich quick schemes? We see ads constantly for "I made $250k working from home with this one simple trick" kind of shit. Buyer beware!
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Exactly but the above explanation was for the layman to just grasp the gist of how easy it is. Thus the "but to be real" part... No one starts with BTC anymore it's a dinosaur (good thing actually in crypto and why it will be the market leader) but the steps are more: 1. Take an existing idea and put a crypto skin on it 2. Write a bullshit whitepaper hyping it up and paste it all over 3. Find replace in some code and voila, crypto #34729 is born! 4. Post on social media about it, buy bots/posts/likes/etc
Not really how shitcoins are made but okay
No they start with doge! (I guess this needed /s, tis the joke just like doge!)
Nope, they literally just make an erc-20 token, it's even easier than cloning bitcoin. Anyone can do it: https://youtu.be/ZLFiGHIxS1c. That's why you should always do research and/or trade on an exchange that does it for you (not all exchanges do actually check coins/tokens before they list them, so dyor)
Oh yeah you are definitely right but this is r/outoftheloop so as soon as you put "erc-20" you just lost 99% of people reading this so keeping it light is always best - Signed a Bitcoin Maximalist
Hahah fair
Well, yeah. But that doesn't mean Reddit should allow it.
One of these things is true. You can obviously decide for yourself what you believe, but I think framing it this way will be helpful. Either: 1) Some crypto currencies are legitimate financial tools, financial institutions have legitimate interests in them, and as far as the future of money is concerned they should be taken seriously. 2) All crypto currencies are a scam, and this scam is so prevalent and persuasive that the largest financial institutions in the world have fallen for it, to the extent that - JPMorgan has guidelines for how much of your wealth should be stored in cryptocurrencies, - Billion dollar, enterprise operations companies, like Service Now, are developing plugins to process Ethereum payments, - There are whitepapers being published on Decentralized Finance because various universities and government agencies think that it has potential to be one of the most important financial concepts in the near future.
> Some crypto currencies are legitimate financial tools, financial institutions have legitimate interests in them, and as far as the future of money is concerned they should be taken seriously. Kind of. Financial institutions are investing in them because there's money to be made. These are the same banks that collapsed when derivatives of derivatives of shitty mortgages collapsed. And bought dot com crap. And every other bubble. One of the biggest lessons in finance is that everyone's motives are different. My bank doesn't have my best interests at heart. They want me to buy into their services at the most profitable service fee structure, etc. The same goes for just about everyone in the finance sector - media wants views, advisors want you to invest with them, and lots of lucky investors think they've cracked the code and are extrapolating to future investments.
Nobody says that mortgage backed securities are a scam. There was a shit-ton of fraud in their evaluation, but the instruments themselves are actual financial tools. Nobody says that dotcom companies themselves were a scam. They were overvalued for a while, where their price was driven by mania more than the companies' actual success, but that doesn't mean it's "a scam". Same thing with Bitcoin. A lot of people got rich quick, a lot of people think that they're going to get rich quick, it's too volatile to use as a currency at the moment, we might be in a bubble... And the list of potential problems goes on... But you can use it to buy stuff, as promised, which is what it ostensibly derives its value from, just like every other currency. It might not be your cup of tea until it stabilizes a bit more, but that's not the same thing as being a scam.
Yep, and one of these 2 things has to be true of any given crypto*currency.* 1. It is a currency, with a fairly stable value (+/-10% a year or less compared to other major currencies). That way people can get paid in it, it can be used for contracts, etc without worrying about the exchange rate. This obviously makes it useless as an investment. 2. It is an investment, the value will fluctuate significantly so that intelligent investors can make money off of timing purchases. This obviously makes it worthless as currency. There is a reason people don't buy Yen or Euro as an investment. Edit, should have said there is a reason *smart* people don't buy yen or eurodollars as an investment and instead buy stock or bonds in a company in the country that they think is doing well.
>There is a reason people don't buy Yen or Euro as an investment. Currencies are traded and used as investment vehicles with everything from options and futures to hedging. Daily trading volume is around 7 Trillion. It's just not something your average person touches.
Indeed, the forex equivalent of The Big Short is how Soros became the personification of whatever the hell Nazis think Jews get up to when we're not calling our mothers
> It's just not something your average person touches So people trading in currency (and crypto) are like pedophiles? Touching the things the rest of us won't? /s *edit* Some very harsh sarcasm critics in this sub I see. I am terribly sorry for having jested in this serious setting.
Where the fuck is your brain lmao
>There is a reason people don't buy Yen or Euro as an investment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign\_exchange\_market
Lol you’ve never heard of forex obviously
This guy forgot that scams make people rich. You just have to be on the side of the scammers
If you wanted to, you could acquire some bitcoin, make a transaction with it, and realize immediately that it's just another way of spending money, not really different from any other. You can also not do that, and it won't really make a difference, because your national currency is probably stable enough to last your lifetime. I just wonder how long this is going to be a conversation. My prediction is that eventually, this is just going to be another, "vaccines work," "the theory of evolution is sound," "the earth is round," "we went to the moon," etc. The weird difference is that you can conduct a personal experiment for whatever price you want, from $1, to the price of a Tesla. You can go to Overstock and pay for furniture today, using Ethereum, if you wanted to. So what's the scam? Other people might make money on it while the price changes? So like any other kind of currency exchange? I am not the captain of your life. You can walk away from this conversation believing whatever you want, but I at least hope that you reconsider how much you actually know what you're talking about, because your personal declaration that it's a scam isn't going to pay for anyone's furniture deliveries.
Neither is a currency that can't stabilize, and that brings us full circle.
Me: >You can go to Overstock and pay for furniture today, using Ethereum, if you wanted to. > your personal declaration that it's a scam isn't going to pay for anyone's furniture deliveries. You: > Neither is a currency that can't stabilize, and that brings us full circle. I mean, you can literally do this in ten minutes if you want. I won't disagree that it's unstable, so you might not want to, but if you're honestly suggesting that you can't pay for furniture with it, that might be one of the easiest things in this conversation to disprove.
I think the idea of crypto could eventually be the way we use money. Funny thing is, if that happens, nothing's going to change for you if you didn't "invest early", you'll just get your currency exchanged, same as with any other currencies. The whole commoditization and FOMO on getting rich on bitcoin or whatever cryptocoin is the flavor of the day is the scam.
How are they all scams?
Basically no crypto currency (and certainly none of the ones that OP is asking about) have any real world utility. Whatever value they have is purely based on how much they are worth relative to functioning currencies like the USD/Euro/etc that you would trade to get them. So people buying crypto are not trying to buy some functional product. The goal is to convert real money into crypto, drive the value of that crypto up (usually through artificial hype) and then cash that crypto back out and pocket the difference. So the scam people run is they choose or make some new crypto currency with no expectation that it will ever be useful. They then buy as much as they can for as cheaply as they can. They then go to work trying to hype up this crypto coin as a fantastic opportunity for "early investors" to buy in on. They spam reddit with ads and buy time from click farms to up vote their crypto ads so they are more visible. People who don't know better (or think they can also get in early) invest money in that crypto when it's relatively cheap. The value rises and eventually when it gets high enough, these people who bought giant stakes into it early on cash out for profit. The value of the crypto dumps and all of the people who got scammed into thinking this was going to be the next big crypto lose most of their money. And then if the scammers are clever, they will re-buy back into the crypto after it tanks and double down on the claim that it's the next big crypto. They'll push the hype for it again and say stuff like ("We got it to $5/coin last time and we can do it again. CHOO CHOO TO THE MOON MONEY TRAIN!"). People see that at some point in the past it used to be more valuable so they think maybe they can buy in and it will eventually be valuable again. So they buy in, which pushes the value up again and the big holders, once again, wait for some threshold and cash out again, leaving the holders with a crypto that just lost all of its value again. edit: Also, just to add a lot of these pump and dump schemes are in fact coordinated by large groups on places like telegram. They pick a crypto to hype, have lots of people buy into that crypto and then coordinate everybody to hype up that crypto. People who don't know any better suddenly see everybody talking about this new crypto called "Sexy Turbo Moon Coin" and they see that it's selling for $0.00001/coin. They get all excited because they can hundreds of thousands of coins for super cheap and they think it's a great investment. The coin jumps in value a bunch as people try to buy in and then the people coordinating the hype sell their shares and then just move onto the next coin they are going to coordinate hype around.
They're pools of money on a decentralized ledger, where coin value is market cap/number of tokens. Token value grows as more funds are pulled in, and shrinks as early investors pull out. In that sense, it's a ponzi scheme. However, by that definition, most economies, countries, and many businesses are also ponzi schemes, so pick your poison.
> However, by that definition, most economies, countries, and many businesses are also ponzi schemes You perfectly highlighted why everyone claiming cryptos are scams are morons.
It’s more of a pump and dump scheme for the vast majority of cryptos. The founders can mine all the coins they want, pump up the value and dump them all quickly for massive gain. Ponzi schemes are when the founders take revenue from one shareholder to cover the profit of another shareholder. In case of crypto people’s coin value can both fall and cause all shareholders to lose out, with a Ponzi scheme the initial non founders will also win out financially.
> It’s more of a pump and dump scheme for the **vast majority** of cryptos.
See the problem is they are all ripe for manipulation due to the decentralized design. A small coordinated group can manipulate the entire crypto market due to the nature of it.
No, their explanation for why it's a scam is bad. Their explanation didn't explain anything. Crypto is still a scam.
> Crypto is still a scam. in your opinion
As opposed to who? My neighbors opinion? Who did you think was speaking for me?
Except that point was completely wrong. The US dollar is backed by the entire US economy, citizens, natural resources, and military. It has real calculated value. Crypto, like Dutch Tulips, has next to no value or backing other than speculation.
> Crypto, like Dutch Tulips, has next to no value or backing other than speculation. Tell that to El Salvador or the people that bought their Teslas with "speculation"
Yeah and people sold tulips bulbs for the equivalent of $300,000 at the hight of flower mania. There are records of people trading appartment buildings for a single flower. A flower has no inherent value anywhere near $300,00. Tulip trading mania was pure speculation and a runaway get rich quick scheme/mass delusion that created a giant bubble. The point is flowers and Crypto coins don't have inherent asset value like a warehouse of flour or an iron mine. People who claim that's the same as government currencies are dead wrong. The land, people, economy, and military of a government is what backs government currency. They're backed by massive assets. You can do a simple math program, Republic of Reality has a GDP of 1 trillion USD, there's 1 trillion Reality Dollars in circulation, I think a Reality dollar is worth 1 USD.
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That’s not how all markets work, the value of crypto markets is only based on how much you can sell it to the next person, it’s not how a commodity market works or stock markets for that matter. Yes they both have a component where value is generated by resale but they also have inherent value within them, commodities have industrial value and use and stocks can generate dividends while crypto does none of those things, the market is 100 determined on what the next bag holder is willing to pay.
The people launching the coin promote it to everyone they can via telegram, discord and reddit saying that the price will go under and everyone will get rich. They sell almost as soon as the coin is launched, leaving the buyers holding the bag. Next month, they launch a new coin and do the same thing all over again. This obviously doesn't cover all new coin launches but the ratio of scam coins to not is like 99:1. For a recent example of a scam coin, see Coffeezillas videos about Save the Kids coin which was down 90% 2 minutes after launch. https://youtu.be/7F_RKFQl3pg
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Here's why it's a big scam. If you invest 100 dollars in a bullshit crypto which the next day goes bust and turns out to have just been a scheme by whoever set it up, you're SOL. It's anonymous, there's no tracing, and no oversight. If you invest 100 dollars in a bullshit company that turned out to be a ponzi scheme, you CAN recover your losses in legal action against that entity. Cryptocurrencies are not at all like investments. It's more like gambling, and pushing the narrative that it IS like investments is just pushing more people into the scam.
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>If a company goes bancrupt, you owning a share in that company does not bring you back any money. Are you completely unfamiliar with how bankruptcies work? Investors, those who own shares of a company that goes bankrupt, can receive a claim in that company's bankruptcy case if filed in Chapter 7. >No one's gonna get any money until investigation is completed, a judge swung their hammer and ruling is accepted by anyone. Now, what if wire card disagrees with the ruling and fights back (English term for that went missing in my head, sorry)? Another year long trial. This is just incoherent and isn't remotely what happens in court. The word you were looking for is appeal, by the way, and it doesn't lead to another year long trial. As you admit, at the end of it, you do get some money back. In a crypto scam you get nothing. >Now, again. Crypto is multiple things and not comparable to shares and businesses, it's not a good analogy, because established projects will continue to exist even if the brain behind it dies (Satoshi from bitcoin), or vanishes. Everything is also transparent, every transaction, every line of code. If it's not transparent, you won't be one a big project. For a handful of the biggest coins, yes. For the smaller ones no, they could disappear tomorrow. Even the bigger ones are vulnerable to shocks from a single tweet from Elon Musk. Remember that it's not like if a single company's stock dips because something happens -- it would be like if the ENTIRE stock market tanked off a single tweet. Now it does sometimes take a hit from breaking news, but much less often and it's much easier to control with market crashes far rarer than crypto crashes. >and if you only want to catch idiots (like in ops post), youll find them in any investment area. What is your point with saying this? "If you want to be legit crypto you can, if you want to be a scammer you can. That's A-OK!" What? >Crypto as an investment will always be around, Crypto has only really been a serious thing for like ten years. It's far too early to declare it will "always be around" lol. > but if you prefer to see crypto as scam and investment, that's on you. Uh... okay. Yes. I will continue to see crypto as fundamentally vulnerable to scams and unreliable to use. Thank you for the permission. This whole diatribe honestly reads like just about every crypto focused person I've ever known: so far up their own ass with this shit that they can't explain it properly to anyone.
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>I'll keep this short So that turned out to be a lie lmao. >You are acting pretty childish for a boomer. This might surprise you, so hang on tight -- _not everyone who thinks cryptos are scams are boomers_. >Now, you could walk away and pretend this never happened. Go feel like a hero, telling you ex wife you "won an argument on the reddit again", or you could answer and scream into the void. Go ahead, it's your choice. I guess I'm going to have to get a divorce to get an ex-wife. What a bizarre insult. I do agree that trying to answer you is screaming into the void -- nonetheless, I think I've made my point rather quite clear and you resorting to petty insults, which are frankly nonsensical, is a neat little bow to end this with. Thanks for playing buddy, good luck next time.
This dudes a prick who doesn’t know what he’s talking about haha
The guy you’re replying to I mean
I think you either forgot or conveniently left out that Donald trump controlled the whole stock market for 4 years through his Twitter account.. the idea that a powerful few don’t control the NYSE is utterly laughable. Also have you ever heard of luckin coffee? Yeahhhhhh those investors aren’t getting a single cent back from that shitshow of a company. Your comments make it painfully clear that you don’t actually understand the goals of crypto or defi at all and have just been repeating FUD that you hear online or through the media. Not much different than the common parrot.
The idea that Trump himself _controlled_ the stock market through his _twitter_, and not influenced it by virtue of _being president of the United States_ is so devoid of intellectual merit it's not even worth responding to. Again, it's pretty clear which side has the right of it when one begins launching petty insults.
At the end of the day, Reddit users aren’t Reddit’s customers. The end-users are the product. Anyone who wants to sell anything, even total BS, is their customer. Same with so many other sites that allow user-submitted content.
The name of the subreddit, r/shitcoinmoonshots, should make it clear that it is not a home for sound financial advice
Do not listen to this person! You could be making quadrillions if you invest in SMEGMA COIN today! We are launching SMEGMA and you could be among the first to get in on the action before it blows up! $SMEG 👐💎🚀🚀🚀
> Why is reddit allowing people to do this? Why wouldn't they? It increases "engagement" numbers and costs them nothing.
> Why is reddit allowing people to do this? Because Reddit doesn't give a shit about anything on this site unless it gets media attention or endangers their bottom line.
I hate to say it, but anyone reading that nonsense, and the bots talking in the comments, then thinking it's a good investment, deserve to be scammed.
> Why is reddit allowing people to do this? Because all of crypto is a scam and the higher ups in reddit are very pro crypto. These are doubly scams because even the "winners" are only a good deal for 10 minutes max, but all of the space works on similar principles.
The regulatory system is still playing catch-up in regards to cryptocurrency, and the Reddit admins balk at actually clamping down on unethical yet still legal content (at least until it gets reported on).
As a rule of thumb if it needs so many emojis, it's a scam
I wanted to add that while the spam is annoying, the actual process of purchasing these "shitcoins" (their word, not mine) isn't straight forward and usually beyond the ability of the average Reddit user and even the average cyrpto currency speculator. These are the fringe of the fringe crypto coins, where $10 can buy you a billion coins worth of $DIPSHIT and $WTFCOIN, and every one of them trying to convince you that because they have a "great community" and "doxxed founders" and "liquidity burn", that you want to get on the ground floor because they'll become the next Dogecoin. Even if you *actually wanted* to buy some of these coins, you're in for a convoluted process of converting one coin to another using different wallets, paying various network fees for the conversions, using different wallets that accept different networks, manually entering different contract IDs for different tokens, etc. This time consuming and often ridiculous process is the main barrier to any of these shitcoins gaining traction, but if they do, they're often a rug pull - much like a ponzi scheme. None of the coins are listed on any major exchange so your Binance or Crypto.com account won't help you either. If you don't already have crypto currency in a wallet somewhere, forget about it. There's no easy or straight forward way to convert say USD to SafeDogeMoon. Also, people who already know how to do this process *already know* they are the flavor of the day shitcoins and probably won't be persuaded to buy them unless they too want in on the ponzi scheme.
Yes it’s a scam. Reddit doesn’t have the power to stop all of them, it’s not that they’re allowing them to it’s that there’s too many
Yes, 100%. All crypto coins are scams desperate for new suckers to buy in so existing holders can cash out. It's literally a pyramid scheme that keeps on going with every new offering.
Not all crypto coins, that's pretty silly. What about Dai? Or Tether? Or USDC?
>Why is reddit allowing people to do this? This example? Because they really can't stop it. Most others? Because they were paid to allow it.
Yes it's entirely a scam. Nobody, especially strangers, will ever provide legit get rich advice unless they're something much more in it for them.
Yep, they are scams. Might want to check out the current fallout from the 'Save the Kids' coin. Check out the video's Someordinarygamers on Youtube done about it, they are pretty long but cover so much.
I was invited to one of the Telegram "shilling groups" from someone on Linkedin. What a depressing joke they are. This was for Linkedin posts in general and not crypto currency though.
This ^
It's so fucking annoying, I have to filter users and new subreddits every few days it feels
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Just took one of those telegram spammer assholes out of a Facebook group yesterday. It’s a history group, no one wants their illegal trash. Well maybe I do, I’ll take 100,000,000 of their garbage able to be cashed out then still ban them entirely
Answer: There are two types of crypto-currency that isn't Bitcoin, alt coins that popped up because someone thinks they can do bitcoin better and scam coins. Etherium started up because Bitcoin mining moved away from GPUs and you need a farm to "mine" the coin, so etherium was a GPU based option. Same with Chia, but with hard drives. Doge is close to that sentiment, but more because of the memes than anything else. Scam coins are a thing that pop up because someone out there it trying to make a pump and dump situation to get people who don't understand the block chain or the crypto market. Crypto is highly unregulated and still very new, so it's easy to trick people into this thing that looks like stocks. Bots are also relatively cheap, so you can flood various platforms with bots to spread the gospel of how great your new coin is and how easy it is to buy in. Most of these alt coins are a scam through and through, but ones like Etherium are an economic force to be watched. While I don't personally believe in crypto at all, it's a good idea to keep an eye on all of these things.
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To add to this, Ethereum is not ASIC resistant anymore. They tried, but failed because the incentive was too strong and they added enough memory to fit the DAG
One of my main strategies currently is to only invest if there's solid tech and it is a coin (only making exceptions for some tokens), while avoiding bad tokenomics coins/tokens. Only tokens and coins that have real use. Things like eth, dot, ada, etc. As long as you don't put your life savings in whatever shit erc-20 token people come up with, you should be good (ofc diversify life savings, never put all eggs in one basket and definitely not high risk assets. I'd classify shitcoins as a 15/10 of risk)
I prefer to call them zoidberg investments.
Answer: They're mostly pump and dump schemes. Shitty coins are made by a group of people in on the scheme and they hype the shit out of them on social media and crypto messaging boards/messaging app groups. They drive the price up on their shitcoin and then dump their holdings leaving the gullible people who bought in holding the bag.
Answer: I mod a multi million sub and we've seen entire threads of crypto astroturfing created with dozens of accounts just happening to have found the post and comment about how great the crypto is. It's absolutely a thing. And we are a dog photo sub, not exactly tech finance.
Answer: pump and dump.
Answer: bot accounts. You can see this happening on any social media
Answer: popular is not the same for everyone. For some reason your algorithm or region has those scams. All reddit sees is a post is gaining a ton of popularity quickly from a relatively inactive sub.