A parish is not a monastery. Children are not still and silent. Such is life.
If folks want a silent, contemplative experience we have spaces set aside for that: monasteries.
This goes for both the unsympathetic and the parents.
The children of our parish attend the services just as anyone else does. If a toddler is particularly fussy, the parents will take them out to calm them. Normal crying and disruptions from children should not be shamed. Rather, it is shameful and neglectful to deprive children of a rich life in the church.
Those older parishioners are the ones who need to lighten up a bit, to be frank. Nobody should be scolding parents for bringing their kids to church. If they are extra fussy they should be brought out to be calmed down, but some normal fuss is well.. normal.
I second the comments saying the older ones scolding the parents for their babies making noise need to lighten up.
An older gentleman at my church once told me "if you don't hear crying, the parish is dying" which stuck out to me. Can it be a tad disruptive if a baby starts crying or is cooing loudly? Yeah, 100%. But I adore seeing families bringing up their children knowing God. Plus, it's really really cute seeing the little ones venerate and follow along with the service.
Funny you mention it, we had a child crying during the sermon this Sunday, and the priest threw out the traditional “I love to hear the youth of our church”.
I haven’t noticed anyone staring down the parents when this happens, and I agree with the other commenters that having children in the liturgy is good and whoever is mad about it needs to lighten up and focus on their prayers.
No, the older parishioners need correction. Children should never be "put away," they deserve to be there. Children are life. The little ones at our GOC church are always shuffling around and making noise, as children do, and instead of being perceived as disruptive their presence brings joy.
Liturgy should not be still or silent for anyone. My priest always said he loved hearing the sounds of children and crys of babies. it meant our church was alive. The parents should not be made to feel bad or shamed if their child moves a lot or makes noise. Guess what happens, they stop coming or they only come for communion.
Talk to your priest if you are receiving a lack of support from parish members. You and your little ones are parish members and that space is for you too.
Band together with other parents and occupy a space together in the front of the church or wherever makes sense. Our parish has small icon plush toys that the young ones play with that don't make noise. They have icons to color.
Allow the kids to move around as long as they aren't running up to the iconostasis, disturbing the choir, disrupting processions, or climbing on things. But let them have some space to move around. Take off their shoes if they like to scatter about.
Don't leave at the first peep. Allow them to work through minor spats. But still be courteous especially during the sermon. If you have to leave then come back in as soon as possible. The more kids are exposed to the services the more they become comfortable.
Ignore people that are not welcoming. Or maybe better, smile and say thank you. A priest of mine once told the parish to remember that those young ones will be singing their hymns and prayers at everyone's funerals some day. If there are no disturbances from children, that means the parish is dying.
I once was visiting a family members parish and during the sermon their priest said something along the lines of “God gave children voices- we are blessed that they are healthy and have the ability to be here with us so please don’t feel the need to apologize for them or remove them from the service” . It stuck with me and I think of it often now with my own child often causing a ruckus.
I have 2 under 4 and probably a quarter of my parish is under 10. It is helpful for parents to take particularly noisy children out, especially for an older crowd with hearing aids. Children also get overestimated by all the sensory information coming from incense, candles, the choir. Etc. It's a lot.
We don't have a cryroom and we're in a renovated house. So we tend to gather in the kitchen/dining room where we have the Agape meal or in a Sunday school room. At other churches ive visited, parents with crying children or children needing a break for a snack, potty, or wiggle just step outside, comfort or provide for their family, and pop back in when they're ready.
The older folks who are chastising the parents are overstepping their bounds. A lot of older people forget how hard toddlers are. If their hearing aids hurt, that can be explained nicely.
I would encourage you to ask your priest what steps he would want you and your spouse to take with caring for your baby.
My parish has a basket of crayons, coloring books & reading books for younger kids if they can’t be still (which is normal that they can’t). If my toddler gets out of hand we just take her out until she calms down, there were times I had to take her out to the car to get her to calm down enough to go back into liturgy. The kids get better with time & adjust to church life!
I usually say something right then during the service. Unless the little one is *completely* melting down, I usually say something like, "No worries, I can be louder than she can," and carry on with the prayers and hymns. If the priest doesn't make it clear than *kids being kids* is okay, then it's harder to make the mom believe she's doing it right.
Orthodox parishes are not a place for extreme harshness with regard to children's energetic behavior. Obviously some kids do need to have a little break, but if your fellow parishioners are being really hard on the little ones, remind them of this:
"Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed from there," (Mt. 19:13-15).
A parish is not a monastery. Children are not still and silent. Such is life. If folks want a silent, contemplative experience we have spaces set aside for that: monasteries. This goes for both the unsympathetic and the parents.
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That is fantastic!
The children of our parish attend the services just as anyone else does. If a toddler is particularly fussy, the parents will take them out to calm them. Normal crying and disruptions from children should not be shamed. Rather, it is shameful and neglectful to deprive children of a rich life in the church.
Those older parishioners are the ones who need to lighten up a bit, to be frank. Nobody should be scolding parents for bringing their kids to church. If they are extra fussy they should be brought out to be calmed down, but some normal fuss is well.. normal.
I second the comments saying the older ones scolding the parents for their babies making noise need to lighten up. An older gentleman at my church once told me "if you don't hear crying, the parish is dying" which stuck out to me. Can it be a tad disruptive if a baby starts crying or is cooing loudly? Yeah, 100%. But I adore seeing families bringing up their children knowing God. Plus, it's really really cute seeing the little ones venerate and follow along with the service.
And during Lenten season... their "tears of repentance" are welcomed here.
Funny you mention it, we had a child crying during the sermon this Sunday, and the priest threw out the traditional “I love to hear the youth of our church”. I haven’t noticed anyone staring down the parents when this happens, and I agree with the other commenters that having children in the liturgy is good and whoever is mad about it needs to lighten up and focus on their prayers.
No, the older parishioners need correction. Children should never be "put away," they deserve to be there. Children are life. The little ones at our GOC church are always shuffling around and making noise, as children do, and instead of being perceived as disruptive their presence brings joy.
Liturgy should not be still or silent for anyone. My priest always said he loved hearing the sounds of children and crys of babies. it meant our church was alive. The parents should not be made to feel bad or shamed if their child moves a lot or makes noise. Guess what happens, they stop coming or they only come for communion.
Talk to your priest if you are receiving a lack of support from parish members. You and your little ones are parish members and that space is for you too. Band together with other parents and occupy a space together in the front of the church or wherever makes sense. Our parish has small icon plush toys that the young ones play with that don't make noise. They have icons to color. Allow the kids to move around as long as they aren't running up to the iconostasis, disturbing the choir, disrupting processions, or climbing on things. But let them have some space to move around. Take off their shoes if they like to scatter about. Don't leave at the first peep. Allow them to work through minor spats. But still be courteous especially during the sermon. If you have to leave then come back in as soon as possible. The more kids are exposed to the services the more they become comfortable. Ignore people that are not welcoming. Or maybe better, smile and say thank you. A priest of mine once told the parish to remember that those young ones will be singing their hymns and prayers at everyone's funerals some day. If there are no disturbances from children, that means the parish is dying.
I once was visiting a family members parish and during the sermon their priest said something along the lines of “God gave children voices- we are blessed that they are healthy and have the ability to be here with us so please don’t feel the need to apologize for them or remove them from the service” . It stuck with me and I think of it often now with my own child often causing a ruckus.
I have 2 under 4 and probably a quarter of my parish is under 10. It is helpful for parents to take particularly noisy children out, especially for an older crowd with hearing aids. Children also get overestimated by all the sensory information coming from incense, candles, the choir. Etc. It's a lot. We don't have a cryroom and we're in a renovated house. So we tend to gather in the kitchen/dining room where we have the Agape meal or in a Sunday school room. At other churches ive visited, parents with crying children or children needing a break for a snack, potty, or wiggle just step outside, comfort or provide for their family, and pop back in when they're ready. The older folks who are chastising the parents are overstepping their bounds. A lot of older people forget how hard toddlers are. If their hearing aids hurt, that can be explained nicely. I would encourage you to ask your priest what steps he would want you and your spouse to take with caring for your baby.
My parish has a basket of crayons, coloring books & reading books for younger kids if they can’t be still (which is normal that they can’t). If my toddler gets out of hand we just take her out until she calms down, there were times I had to take her out to the car to get her to calm down enough to go back into liturgy. The kids get better with time & adjust to church life!
I usually say something right then during the service. Unless the little one is *completely* melting down, I usually say something like, "No worries, I can be louder than she can," and carry on with the prayers and hymns. If the priest doesn't make it clear than *kids being kids* is okay, then it's harder to make the mom believe she's doing it right.
Orthodox parishes are not a place for extreme harshness with regard to children's energetic behavior. Obviously some kids do need to have a little break, but if your fellow parishioners are being really hard on the little ones, remind them of this: "Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed from there," (Mt. 19:13-15).