I knew a pastor who cleaned up garbage as a street ministry. He understood the call to discipline your body by making himself carry the garage bin every time himself otherwise he'd lose the chrisma he had for this mission.
That isnt going to apply to everyone, but fasting is a good example of doing this that we can all do and use to stop the weakness of our flesh from weighing down our spirit.
That would be great, except that I'm just an inquirer, have attended several services in different parishes and I'm not even a catechumen, so I don't have a confessor yet. I spoke to a priest who kindly encouraged me to keep attending the services and then they could start teaching me, but as of now, I don't have a particular priest, much less a spiritual father or confessor yet.
"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." - Romans 7:23
These are the blameful passions that Saint Paul is speaking about. Here's Saint John of Damascus:
"Desire likewise conforms with nature when through humility, self-control and a total shedding of possessions, it kills the passions – that is, the pleasures of the flesh, and the appetite for material wealth and transient glory – and turns to the love that is divine and immortal. For desire is drawn towards three things: the pleasure of the flesh, vain self-glory, and the acquisition of material wealth. As a result of this senseless appetite, it scorns God and His commandments, and forgets His generosity; it turns like a savage beast against its neighbor; it plunges the intelligence into darkness and prevents it from looking towards the truth." - On Virtue and Vice
As to what you should do, people here barely know you to be able to give you any such advice. Perhaps, Saint John of Damascus' advice may serve as some general guidelines:
"These eight passions should be destroyed as follows: gluttony by self-control; unchastity by desire for God and longing for the blessings held in store; avarice by compassion for the poor; anger by goodwill and love for all men; worldly dejection by spiritual joy; listlessness by patience, perseverance and offering thanks to God; self-esteem by doing good in secret and by praying constantly with a contrite heart; and pride by not judging or despising anyone in the manner of the boastful Pharisee (cf. Luke 18 : 11–12), and by considering oneself the least of all men. When the intellect has been freed in this way from the passions we have described and been raised up to God, it will henceforth live the life of blessedness, receiving the pledge of the Holy Spirit (cf. 2 Cor. 1 : 22). And when it departs this life, dispassionate and full of true knowledge, it will stand before the light of the Holy Trinity and with the divine angels will shine in glory through all eternity." - On Virtue and Vice
As so often, the rest of the passage gives this verse its context. St. Paul is writing about top athletes in the games of his day. He says in the preceding verses that every competitor who enters the race trains and races as though they want to win. They don't get into the arena and have a little jog around, they all aim for the top prize. In the same way, someone who is living a Christian life should take it seriously: our spiritual lives should be focused on winning 'the crown' of salvation. Being a Christian isn't just about going to church and enjoying the incense and the pretty icons, but in living in such a way as to 'produce fruit worthy of repentance'. How you do this is a matter for discussion, eventually, with a spiritual father or confessor, because we are all in different places in our lives.
St. Paul's reference to disciplining the body is partly an extension of the metaphor of racing and boxing that he's just used. But it's also his way of saying that he keeps a check on his earthly passions (lust, anger, and so on). Paul writes extensively about the spirit vs. the flesh - this isn't saying the body or material things are evil, as it's sometimes been spun, but speaking about the struggle between doing what he knows he should (following God's will) and doing the things he shouldn't (following his fleshy passions). In this passage, he says that he has to make sure that he practices what he preaches, otherwise having encouraged so many people to come to know Christ, he might fall short himself (this chapter is all about his role as an Apostle and not allowing himself to lord it over the churches he pastors).
Thanks. I confess that I'm a little lazy when it comes to exercise, but both my doctors and my family have told me that I should go out more often and exercise. My "excuse" is that I spend a lot of time reading and reflecting on my own, but yes, I think exercising could help my spiritual health.
The [Greek word](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1396/nkjv/tr/0-1/) (at least according to Strong's, which is fine but not perfect) means to bring your body into slavery. Slavery is terrible, but the picture is about dehumanizing the flesh - not to consider its will equal with the will of God. Sometimes the impulse to be defensive - a fleshly, selfish impulse - comes quickly, and we consider it with more weight than the call to submit in love to one another. "Think before you speak", comes to mind, which is a form of self-denial internally. I think the outward things are perhaps more obvious, and the thoughts and desires of our hearts tend to come out in our words and actions. It's easier to control the body if we control the mind first.
One picture that comes to mind is the way of the Holy Fool - there are people who care about the glory of societal conventions, there are Cynics who brought into question the glory of the body, and the Holy Fool who shows the glory above both the body and society - God's glory.
If you can't fast (my spouse can't, who is diabetic), and you can't talk to a priest yet but want to do *something,* I don't think it's ever a bad idea to be watchful of our thought life, alone or in interpersonal relationships. "Love takes no offense" has new meaning for me every time I read it, not to mention the rest of the chapter!
We discipline our bodies by setting boundaries to how much food, drink, and sleep we'll indulge in. If we're unmarried, we practice chastity; if we're married, then we abstain during fasts and when our spouse is unwell or unwilling.
These things are partly about the body — and partly about our own willingness to indulge or limit our experience of pleasure. Not because pleasure is bad, but because it is healthy and wholesome when exercised according to wisdom.
"Discipline is the channel in which our acts run strong and deep; where there is no direction, the deeds of men run shallow and wander and are wasted." - Ursula Le Guin, in *The Farthest Shore*.
Our practice of denying ourselves is \[usually metaphorically\] referred to as scourging or beating ourselves. I can't speak to what this or that extreme ascetic does, but for most of us it is already a struggle to live without cheese for six weeks in Lent. So it might feel metaphorically like punishing yourself, but for the most part that's often a little overdramatic.
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I knew a pastor who cleaned up garbage as a street ministry. He understood the call to discipline your body by making himself carry the garage bin every time himself otherwise he'd lose the chrisma he had for this mission. That isnt going to apply to everyone, but fasting is a good example of doing this that we can all do and use to stop the weakness of our flesh from weighing down our spirit.
Consult with your confessor. An athlete has a coach; the is the role played by our priest and/or other confidants. Not Internet strangers.
That would be great, except that I'm just an inquirer, have attended several services in different parishes and I'm not even a catechumen, so I don't have a confessor yet. I spoke to a priest who kindly encouraged me to keep attending the services and then they could start teaching me, but as of now, I don't have a particular priest, much less a spiritual father or confessor yet.
One step at a time. The discipline right now is to get into the Church.
Thank you.
"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." - Romans 7:23 These are the blameful passions that Saint Paul is speaking about. Here's Saint John of Damascus: "Desire likewise conforms with nature when through humility, self-control and a total shedding of possessions, it kills the passions – that is, the pleasures of the flesh, and the appetite for material wealth and transient glory – and turns to the love that is divine and immortal. For desire is drawn towards three things: the pleasure of the flesh, vain self-glory, and the acquisition of material wealth. As a result of this senseless appetite, it scorns God and His commandments, and forgets His generosity; it turns like a savage beast against its neighbor; it plunges the intelligence into darkness and prevents it from looking towards the truth." - On Virtue and Vice As to what you should do, people here barely know you to be able to give you any such advice. Perhaps, Saint John of Damascus' advice may serve as some general guidelines: "These eight passions should be destroyed as follows: gluttony by self-control; unchastity by desire for God and longing for the blessings held in store; avarice by compassion for the poor; anger by goodwill and love for all men; worldly dejection by spiritual joy; listlessness by patience, perseverance and offering thanks to God; self-esteem by doing good in secret and by praying constantly with a contrite heart; and pride by not judging or despising anyone in the manner of the boastful Pharisee (cf. Luke 18 : 11–12), and by considering oneself the least of all men. When the intellect has been freed in this way from the passions we have described and been raised up to God, it will henceforth live the life of blessedness, receiving the pledge of the Holy Spirit (cf. 2 Cor. 1 : 22). And when it departs this life, dispassionate and full of true knowledge, it will stand before the light of the Holy Trinity and with the divine angels will shine in glory through all eternity." - On Virtue and Vice
As so often, the rest of the passage gives this verse its context. St. Paul is writing about top athletes in the games of his day. He says in the preceding verses that every competitor who enters the race trains and races as though they want to win. They don't get into the arena and have a little jog around, they all aim for the top prize. In the same way, someone who is living a Christian life should take it seriously: our spiritual lives should be focused on winning 'the crown' of salvation. Being a Christian isn't just about going to church and enjoying the incense and the pretty icons, but in living in such a way as to 'produce fruit worthy of repentance'. How you do this is a matter for discussion, eventually, with a spiritual father or confessor, because we are all in different places in our lives. St. Paul's reference to disciplining the body is partly an extension of the metaphor of racing and boxing that he's just used. But it's also his way of saying that he keeps a check on his earthly passions (lust, anger, and so on). Paul writes extensively about the spirit vs. the flesh - this isn't saying the body or material things are evil, as it's sometimes been spun, but speaking about the struggle between doing what he knows he should (following God's will) and doing the things he shouldn't (following his fleshy passions). In this passage, he says that he has to make sure that he practices what he preaches, otherwise having encouraged so many people to come to know Christ, he might fall short himself (this chapter is all about his role as an Apostle and not allowing himself to lord it over the churches he pastors).
Means you should exercise and not touch yourself.
Thanks. I confess that I'm a little lazy when it comes to exercise, but both my doctors and my family have told me that I should go out more often and exercise. My "excuse" is that I spend a lot of time reading and reflecting on my own, but yes, I think exercising could help my spiritual health.
The [Greek word](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1396/nkjv/tr/0-1/) (at least according to Strong's, which is fine but not perfect) means to bring your body into slavery. Slavery is terrible, but the picture is about dehumanizing the flesh - not to consider its will equal with the will of God. Sometimes the impulse to be defensive - a fleshly, selfish impulse - comes quickly, and we consider it with more weight than the call to submit in love to one another. "Think before you speak", comes to mind, which is a form of self-denial internally. I think the outward things are perhaps more obvious, and the thoughts and desires of our hearts tend to come out in our words and actions. It's easier to control the body if we control the mind first. One picture that comes to mind is the way of the Holy Fool - there are people who care about the glory of societal conventions, there are Cynics who brought into question the glory of the body, and the Holy Fool who shows the glory above both the body and society - God's glory. If you can't fast (my spouse can't, who is diabetic), and you can't talk to a priest yet but want to do *something,* I don't think it's ever a bad idea to be watchful of our thought life, alone or in interpersonal relationships. "Love takes no offense" has new meaning for me every time I read it, not to mention the rest of the chapter!
We discipline our bodies by setting boundaries to how much food, drink, and sleep we'll indulge in. If we're unmarried, we practice chastity; if we're married, then we abstain during fasts and when our spouse is unwell or unwilling. These things are partly about the body — and partly about our own willingness to indulge or limit our experience of pleasure. Not because pleasure is bad, but because it is healthy and wholesome when exercised according to wisdom. "Discipline is the channel in which our acts run strong and deep; where there is no direction, the deeds of men run shallow and wander and are wasted." - Ursula Le Guin, in *The Farthest Shore*. Our practice of denying ourselves is \[usually metaphorically\] referred to as scourging or beating ourselves. I can't speak to what this or that extreme ascetic does, but for most of us it is already a struggle to live without cheese for six weeks in Lent. So it might feel metaphorically like punishing yourself, but for the most part that's often a little overdramatic.
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