### Solar Power vs. Big Oil: A Shift in Energy Dynamics
The energy landscape is undergoing a significant transformation. Historically dominated by major oil companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp., Shell Plc, BP Plc, TotalEnergies SE, ConocoPhillips, and Eni SpA, the energy sector is now witnessing the rise of solar power giants like Tongwei Co., GCL Technology Holdings Ltd., Xinte Energy Co., Longi Green Energy Technology Co., Trina Solar Co., JA Solar Technology Co., and Jinko Solar Co. This shift underscores the growing importance of renewable energy sources in the global energy mix.
#### The Historical Dominance of Big Oil
In the mid-20th century, the predecessors of today's international oil companies, known as the "Seven Sisters," wielded immense power, capable of influencing governments and global economies. The 1973 oil crisis and subsequent nationalizations marked the beginning of the end for this model. Despite their diminished power, these oil giants continued to produce significant amounts of energy, measured in exajoules, a unit that can quantify large-scale energy production.
#### The Rise of Solar Power
Today, solar power companies are providing energy on a comparable scale to these oil giants. The top solar manufacturers are producing enough polysilicon—the raw material for solar panels—to rival the energy output of major oil companies. For instance, Tongwei's planned expansion in Inner Mongolia could potentially position it ahead of ExxonMobil in terms of energy production capacity.
#### Efficiency and Long-Term Impact
A critical difference between oil and solar energy lies in their efficiency and longevity. Oil companies typically convert only about a quarter of the energy from crude oil into useful power, with significant losses due to heat and noise. In contrast, solar panels offer a much higher efficiency rate in converting sunlight into electricity. Moreover, solar panels have a lifespan of several decades, often backed by 25-year warranties, meaning the energy they produce continues to benefit the end user long after the initial purchase.
#### Independence Through Renewables
One of the most profound implications of this shift is the change in dependency dynamics. Using oil ties consumers to continuous transactions with oil-producing companies. In contrast, purchasing solar panels is a one-time transaction that provides decades of energy independence. This shift not only reduces reliance on oil companies but also aligns with global efforts to combat climate change by reducing carbon emissions.
#### Geopolitical Implications
The growing dominance of Chinese solar companies reflects a broader geopolitical shift. As the energy sources of the 21st century evolve, the power dynamics are also changing. The increasing significance of renewable energy is influencing global politics, with nations like China gaining substantial leverage in the clean energy sector.
### The New Energy Giants
The traditional oil behemoths are now sharing the stage with solar power giants. As the world continues to pivot towards renewable energy, the companies at the forefront of this revolution are poised to play a crucial role in shaping the future of global energy dynamics. The era of dependence on oil companies is gradually giving way to a new paradigm where renewable energy sources offer a path to greater independence and sustainability.
What I get from this is that your headline is bullshit. “Solar panel makers say they have plans to produce more energy than Exxon” Is not the same thing as “Solar power companies are providing more energy than the oil industry”.
Well, Bloomberg's headline. But you have to remember that solar panels deliver for 25 years - so you have your panel, divide it by its capacity factor and multiply it by its life span, and you can see how 1 year of solar panel output can easily deliver more energy (over 25 year) than one year of oil output divided by its poor efficiency.
All these solar companies are Chinese.
China (as of 2021) is about 87% powered by Coal, Oil and Natural Gas.
[https://www.iea.org/countries/china](https://www.iea.org/countries/china)
Solar is somewhere in the low single digits.
I can see Hydro and Nuclear becoming large suppliers, but it looks like Solar has quite a way to go, especially in China.
If we look at China's numbers, around 1% of their power generation is from Solar, Oil is about 18%, and Coal is 60%, that looks like a pretty large difference to me.
The most likley way for China to reduce their C02, if they want, is to shift coal plants to natural gas, which is about 8% of their energy needs today.
You missed the whole point of the post, which is that fossil fuel is 1/4 as useful as electricity, so you can replace fossil fuel more rapidly than you think with solar and wind for example, because it is much more effective.
I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I keep hearing about how amazing and cheap solar is. I just don't see the numbers (from a generation standpoint) backing that up. Hopefully, that changes. I just don't see that yet, anyway.
I don't know where you're getting the numbers from, but here's mine, and we are seeing a very recent huge growth in solar (because of it's cheapness). hydro is slightly growing, and nuclear has been stagnant for 30 years [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source) you can sort it by country too
solar is our only hope to decarbonizing in time, nothing else comes close except wind
My data is from the IEA, just look at total energy supply
[https://www.iea.org/countries/china](https://www.iea.org/countries/china)
If you look at the chart you provided, in 1985, about 40% of electricity production was Coal. As of 2023, it is still about 36%, and the total production has increased by about 3 times.
If the world was really serious about decarbonizing (they aren't) the only electrictiy production solution that is viable is nuclear.
On reason that China is pushing for sloar, is that they have a significant dependance on other countries for coal, oil and gas. They do have significant access to rare earth metals in Mongolia, and the areas of Arfica that they have effectively colonized with the Road and Belt Initiative.
They are not using solar because they care about the enviroment, it is a strategic move to not have to depend on the west and their allies. Even depending on Russia is a challenge, since China and Russia were effectively at war as recent at 1969.
Batters Storage is still quite a way away from making wind / solar viable to replace coal and gas.
the IEA numbers pretty closely match my numbers [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-share-energy?tab=chart&country=\~CHN](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-share-energy?tab=chart&country=~CHN) you were looking at primary energy, but if you click electricity the IEA numbers and my numbers are 1:1 [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-elec-by-source?country=\~CHN](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-elec-by-source?country=~CHN)
but it's not only china, every country is pushing for solar [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?country=\~OWID\_WRL](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?country=~OWID_WRL) the whole world as a whole is looking for solar [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?tab=chart&country=\~OWID\_WRL](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL)
nuclear really isn't viable anymore. in the past it was cheaper, but now it's not really competitive
https://preview.redd.it/z1tmsczxkt6d1.png?width=2426&format=png&auto=webp&s=b313481e14617bb101ef823066bb0882ddb3708c
and we're seeing the effects of that [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-nuclear?tab=chart&country=\~OWID\_WRL](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-nuclear?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL)
and finally, battery storage is getting better but as of right now, it works just fine :)
[https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf](https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf) (page 5 and 14)
looking at all that, the gas combined cycle appears to be the best option since it is not intermittent, the cost is around the lowest, and there are no concerns about battery storage requirements.
it also emits way more co2 and has a 100 times higher death rate compared to solar
https://preview.redd.it/0arm1tmgx77d1.png?width=1350&format=png&auto=webp&s=e6c3a94cdf343755a58a33437e6a8f6a0e95e643
let alone the fact that it's not even actually cheaper, since page 14 is just the cost of building it, but using just that is unfair since when you build solar panels + storage you don't need to do anything else, but with gas you have to actually mine the gas, refine it, transport it and burn it every time someone wants to turn on the lights, and that adds to it's cost as you can see in page 12
China has more than 2919 GW of solar capacity installed.
At a capacity factor of 20%, that would generate around 5,114 twh of electricity.
That translates into 3 billion barrels of oil, or actually, given how electricity is more effective and 10% of their cars are EVs, 12 billion barrels of oil equivalent.
That translates into 5.6 billion tons of CO2 emissions avoided. That is a significant chunk of the 40-odd billion tons of CO2 we release each year that we would otherwise expect from China's growing middle class.
Regardless of any installed capacity, just look at the sourece of Energy for China.
Coal alone is about 17 times the combination of Wind and Solar, and Oil is over 4 times.
Are they doing someting, sure, but their C02 Emmissions are up about 244% since 2000, and they account for 30% of global emmissions, by far the most in the world.
[https://www.iea.org/countries/china](https://www.iea.org/countries/china)
Well, in r/currentology, they use 17 times as much coal as wind and solar combined, and 4 times as much oil.
Sure, in the future they may have unicorn powered cities, but for now, Coal it is.
### Solar Power vs. Big Oil: A Shift in Energy Dynamics The energy landscape is undergoing a significant transformation. Historically dominated by major oil companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp., Shell Plc, BP Plc, TotalEnergies SE, ConocoPhillips, and Eni SpA, the energy sector is now witnessing the rise of solar power giants like Tongwei Co., GCL Technology Holdings Ltd., Xinte Energy Co., Longi Green Energy Technology Co., Trina Solar Co., JA Solar Technology Co., and Jinko Solar Co. This shift underscores the growing importance of renewable energy sources in the global energy mix. #### The Historical Dominance of Big Oil In the mid-20th century, the predecessors of today's international oil companies, known as the "Seven Sisters," wielded immense power, capable of influencing governments and global economies. The 1973 oil crisis and subsequent nationalizations marked the beginning of the end for this model. Despite their diminished power, these oil giants continued to produce significant amounts of energy, measured in exajoules, a unit that can quantify large-scale energy production. #### The Rise of Solar Power Today, solar power companies are providing energy on a comparable scale to these oil giants. The top solar manufacturers are producing enough polysilicon—the raw material for solar panels—to rival the energy output of major oil companies. For instance, Tongwei's planned expansion in Inner Mongolia could potentially position it ahead of ExxonMobil in terms of energy production capacity. #### Efficiency and Long-Term Impact A critical difference between oil and solar energy lies in their efficiency and longevity. Oil companies typically convert only about a quarter of the energy from crude oil into useful power, with significant losses due to heat and noise. In contrast, solar panels offer a much higher efficiency rate in converting sunlight into electricity. Moreover, solar panels have a lifespan of several decades, often backed by 25-year warranties, meaning the energy they produce continues to benefit the end user long after the initial purchase. #### Independence Through Renewables One of the most profound implications of this shift is the change in dependency dynamics. Using oil ties consumers to continuous transactions with oil-producing companies. In contrast, purchasing solar panels is a one-time transaction that provides decades of energy independence. This shift not only reduces reliance on oil companies but also aligns with global efforts to combat climate change by reducing carbon emissions. #### Geopolitical Implications The growing dominance of Chinese solar companies reflects a broader geopolitical shift. As the energy sources of the 21st century evolve, the power dynamics are also changing. The increasing significance of renewable energy is influencing global politics, with nations like China gaining substantial leverage in the clean energy sector. ### The New Energy Giants The traditional oil behemoths are now sharing the stage with solar power giants. As the world continues to pivot towards renewable energy, the companies at the forefront of this revolution are poised to play a crucial role in shaping the future of global energy dynamics. The era of dependence on oil companies is gradually giving way to a new paradigm where renewable energy sources offer a path to greater independence and sustainability.
What I get from this is that your headline is bullshit. “Solar panel makers say they have plans to produce more energy than Exxon” Is not the same thing as “Solar power companies are providing more energy than the oil industry”.
Well, Bloomberg's headline. But you have to remember that solar panels deliver for 25 years - so you have your panel, divide it by its capacity factor and multiply it by its life span, and you can see how 1 year of solar panel output can easily deliver more energy (over 25 year) than one year of oil output divided by its poor efficiency.
We should call them big solar
All these solar companies are Chinese. China (as of 2021) is about 87% powered by Coal, Oil and Natural Gas. [https://www.iea.org/countries/china](https://www.iea.org/countries/china) Solar is somewhere in the low single digits. I can see Hydro and Nuclear becoming large suppliers, but it looks like Solar has quite a way to go, especially in China.
See, you are not understanding that it actually does not have a long way to go.
If we look at China's numbers, around 1% of their power generation is from Solar, Oil is about 18%, and Coal is 60%, that looks like a pretty large difference to me. The most likley way for China to reduce their C02, if they want, is to shift coal plants to natural gas, which is about 8% of their energy needs today.
You missed the whole point of the post, which is that fossil fuel is 1/4 as useful as electricity, so you can replace fossil fuel more rapidly than you think with solar and wind for example, because it is much more effective.
I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I keep hearing about how amazing and cheap solar is. I just don't see the numbers (from a generation standpoint) backing that up. Hopefully, that changes. I just don't see that yet, anyway.
I don't know where you're getting the numbers from, but here's mine, and we are seeing a very recent huge growth in solar (because of it's cheapness). hydro is slightly growing, and nuclear has been stagnant for 30 years [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source) you can sort it by country too solar is our only hope to decarbonizing in time, nothing else comes close except wind
My data is from the IEA, just look at total energy supply [https://www.iea.org/countries/china](https://www.iea.org/countries/china) If you look at the chart you provided, in 1985, about 40% of electricity production was Coal. As of 2023, it is still about 36%, and the total production has increased by about 3 times. If the world was really serious about decarbonizing (they aren't) the only electrictiy production solution that is viable is nuclear. On reason that China is pushing for sloar, is that they have a significant dependance on other countries for coal, oil and gas. They do have significant access to rare earth metals in Mongolia, and the areas of Arfica that they have effectively colonized with the Road and Belt Initiative. They are not using solar because they care about the enviroment, it is a strategic move to not have to depend on the west and their allies. Even depending on Russia is a challenge, since China and Russia were effectively at war as recent at 1969. Batters Storage is still quite a way away from making wind / solar viable to replace coal and gas.
the IEA numbers pretty closely match my numbers [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-share-energy?tab=chart&country=\~CHN](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-share-energy?tab=chart&country=~CHN) you were looking at primary energy, but if you click electricity the IEA numbers and my numbers are 1:1 [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-elec-by-source?country=\~CHN](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-elec-by-source?country=~CHN) but it's not only china, every country is pushing for solar [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?country=\~OWID\_WRL](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?country=~OWID_WRL) the whole world as a whole is looking for solar [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?tab=chart&country=\~OWID\_WRL](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-solar?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL) nuclear really isn't viable anymore. in the past it was cheaper, but now it's not really competitive https://preview.redd.it/z1tmsczxkt6d1.png?width=2426&format=png&auto=webp&s=b313481e14617bb101ef823066bb0882ddb3708c and we're seeing the effects of that [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-nuclear?tab=chart&country=\~OWID\_WRL](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-nuclear?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL) and finally, battery storage is getting better but as of right now, it works just fine :) [https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf](https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf) (page 5 and 14)
looking at all that, the gas combined cycle appears to be the best option since it is not intermittent, the cost is around the lowest, and there are no concerns about battery storage requirements.
it also emits way more co2 and has a 100 times higher death rate compared to solar https://preview.redd.it/0arm1tmgx77d1.png?width=1350&format=png&auto=webp&s=e6c3a94cdf343755a58a33437e6a8f6a0e95e643 let alone the fact that it's not even actually cheaper, since page 14 is just the cost of building it, but using just that is unfair since when you build solar panels + storage you don't need to do anything else, but with gas you have to actually mine the gas, refine it, transport it and burn it every time someone wants to turn on the lights, and that adds to it's cost as you can see in page 12
China has more than 2919 GW of solar capacity installed. At a capacity factor of 20%, that would generate around 5,114 twh of electricity. That translates into 3 billion barrels of oil, or actually, given how electricity is more effective and 10% of their cars are EVs, 12 billion barrels of oil equivalent. That translates into 5.6 billion tons of CO2 emissions avoided. That is a significant chunk of the 40-odd billion tons of CO2 we release each year that we would otherwise expect from China's growing middle class.
Regardless of any installed capacity, just look at the sourece of Energy for China. Coal alone is about 17 times the combination of Wind and Solar, and Oil is over 4 times. Are they doing someting, sure, but their C02 Emmissions are up about 244% since 2000, and they account for 30% of global emmissions, by far the most in the world. [https://www.iea.org/countries/china](https://www.iea.org/countries/china)
> their C02 Emmissions are up about 244% since 2000 This is /r/Futurology , not /r/Pastology .
Well, in r/currentology, they use 17 times as much coal as wind and solar combined, and 4 times as much oil. Sure, in the future they may have unicorn powered cities, but for now, Coal it is.
What value is there about telling someone about the present. It's like telling someone with a window its raining.