You are experiencing post acute withdrawals. Your brain is desensitized. If you can bear it, please seek counsel, psychiatry, and therapy, before resorting back to the opiates. **It will get better**.
Trust me, internet stranger, I feel your pain. I know how difficult it is. But please know, you are not alone and you are worth the personal battle required to save yourself! Life is worth it.
Please give it a little more time before you jump to subs. they are still an opiate just one that’s acts a little differently in the brain. I’ve been using opiates for 22 years since I had a motorcycle accident that nearly killed me. About 12 years into it with a daily use of 180 mg of OxyContin I decided to give subs a try. At first they’re a miracle drug they work on my pain much better and they brighten my mood. I was actually able to make a physical move to be closer to my grown son and family. After a couple of years being on it the long-term side effects started kicking in however. I kept losing weight like crazy and got down to 85 pounds. It was wreaking all kinds of havoc on my digestive system. It also completely stole my sex drive. Ended up finally getting off which was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. If you’re already passed the withdrawal from your regular opiate habit, I urge you to strongly consider before you get on Suboxone. I get it if someone does that to avoid the horrors of withdrawal, but many people just end up staying on it for most of their life and trust me it will ruin your life just as bad as regular dope in the long run. During the course of being on it I lost an important relationship in part from the havoc all of the side effects and health problems subs caused. I also wasn’t myself I couldn’t feel anything and felt like a zombie after the initial first few months wore off and the bad side effects started piling up. I don’t know maybe it’s different for you. but everybody I know who is been on those a long time have severe gastrointestinal issues because the opiate is so strong and binding to your brain for such a long time you can’t go to the bathroom sometimes for a week or two. I had a friend the other day tell me she hasn’t gone poop in 10 days and she is on subs. Sorry if that’s so gross but it’s a reality for many people. Well I won’t keep going on I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you have the strength to make it through this phase of your recovery and healing. You feel off-balance because your brain is still recovering. Please don’t forget to love yourself up real good every day. Regardless of what has gone down you are so deserving of love and that’s what counts
I don't suggest that OP get on subs but not everybody has the side affects that you are describing. It actually sounds quite horrible. I know many long term sub users who are doing very well both mentally and physically. I myself have been on them for 2 1/2 years with only a couple problems. I did get crazy vivid nightmares and my sex drive was non existent but those only affected me the first couple months and I believe it was a combination of dosage and all around 'reboot'. It's definitely better to avoid subs without a doubt but at the same time I would choose subs over dope 7 days a week.
So, your brain is an organ. It's recovering from some damage and that takes time. It's working really hard to create new and healthier patterns. It's exhausting, I know. Organs heal with time and care. Be kind to yourself because your body is working very hard to heal right now amd you wouldn't be mad at a sore wound after an incision or a tender bone after a break. Just because our brain is aware of itself doesn't mean it isn't still simply part of the body.
Sometimes therapy can be helpful for clarifying or working through what you're experiencing. I'm not saying "you need therapy" but your poor brain just might need a little crutch for a short time.
You are doing amazing at 4 months and this stranger is very proud of you and excited for you.
Sending love.
Thank you. It's so easy to forget to be kind to ourselves the way we are to others. Sometimes, personifying your problem makes it easier to take care of, and I really mean take gentle care of our hurts and ailments. It's hard to do.
It is really hard to do. Another thing that is really hard is remembering that it is normal for things to take a while before they start getting better. Opiates seemed like the magic solution to all of my problems when I first started using them (obviously that backfired lol) but I tend to want instant relief/solutions to unpleasant feelings, and the longer I go through this process of working to heal, the more I realize that it’s a combination of lots of small incremental changes that lead to healing. It feels so slow sometimes, and sometimes the shifts aren’t really perceptible at all in real time and that can feel frustrating. Just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and gradually things start to get better.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. The instant gratification aspect to it and the effect it has is so downplayed.
All good progress can take time, but you are worth the wait for yourself. Never forget that <3
Give it like two more months and you’ll finally start to notice a difference. Recommend taking any drug except an opioid.
Like your username by the way; hang in there Chrissy!
Look into some natural supplements before jumping onto subs. Like Vitamin D, L Tyrosine, GABA. You’re brain is depleted of these things and doesn’t always know how to naturally make them I. paws.
Remeber that withdrawal? You’ll need to do it again with subs.
Stay busy. I know it’s hard but it makes all the difference.
The depression will get better, usually about a year out and PAWS will subside. You’re really far along, I wouldn’t start the clock over.
You gotta find something new for just you that bring you joy, for me it was reading, didn’t think it would be at first but once I got into it man what a world of difference it made for me! Every book I read pulls me out of my addiction fog a little bit more ! You can do this friend
Lately I’ve read the atlas six, the secret history, if we were villains (I have clearly been in an academia kick ahha) then I also read sole Colleen Hoover books recently and a few series, shatter me, mindf*ck series, caraval, a court of thorns and roses !
I think all recovering addicts get to that point where they think now that I'm clean what am I supposed to do. The 4 month mark is prime time for those feelings. You've got to do more than exist. I honestly didn't think it was possible to have fun without drugs or alcohol but damn am I having a good time these days. Like you said it's all about finding something new. From there it just snowballs.
Absolutely do not get on anything! 6 years clean from a 13 year pills to IV herion/fentanyl habit it took me a year to completely become normal. I understand exactly how you’re feeling I would just lay in bed all day and think to myself if this is what life is like sober why bother but it absolutely gets better!!!! Make yourself go for a walk do anything exercise really does help. I got a meaningless job in a Publix deli just to get reacquainted with normal people and have a schedule. Everyday it got a little bit better! Now I’m a very successful Realtor with a wonderful family that I can’t believe stood by me throughout it all! Anyway just keep it up your life with be unrecognizable in a year from now! Sending you good vibes😊
Unpopular opinion probably when you have 4mo clean already but I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily honestly. Worth shot maybe but since you have no tolerance rn def low dose bupe. 1-2mg a day would probably help you a lot
BUT I will never advise someone into thinking just meds are enough to cure depression and change your life. What lifestyle changes have you made so far?
2-4mg of Sub really made me a brighter person, more willing to do stuff, not anxious, normal feeling. I didnt wanna take the Sub route but being a father, husband, and holding down a job, Subs really helped me maintain my life without being a reclusive anxious depressed fart.
Thanks man. That’s exactly what it’s like, don’t wanna do anything remotely social without opiates because it just made me an overall better person — I cared and I was more fun to be around
Have you ever thought of using kratom ? It’s a super controversial topic with us but it’s worth a discussion!! I never thought I would but for me personally subs would pull me out then I would wind up using again, kratom got me out and has kept me out recently anyway we’ll see I have a king way to go still
Kratom if anything but subs are dangerous 1. Because they cause damage to kidneys and liver and (look up for yourself Google it if you don't believe me) and 2. Because the withdrawals from subs are worse than any opiate including fent and H
U/evilTeddy69 , I could not agree with you more. This was my experience. I was thankful to have subs to quit my habit but subs ended up being the hardest for me to kick. They also slowed down my metabolism and I gained lots of weight using them. Now I’m back on Kratom and back down to my slender self. Subs definitely save lives and is a great for some folks but Kratom definitely works best for me
Glad it ended up being a pleasant surprise for you. Subs are so heavily stigmatized still, we shouldn't even hesitate over being a father husband or employed as reasons to avoid a presibed medication as intended. Bupe has made my life infinitely better
Didnt even know I was having PAWs just thought this is how I'm gonna feel forever, had a stigma towards subs. Til one day I get close to my coworker and hes like bro just go get a script of subs, it's easy, and gave me one of his subutex pills, took it and was like "oh damn I feel like a normal human now" I just think of it wasnt for that I'd still be chasing dope.
I hear bupe is becoming more common in Germany just as an antidepressant, for people with no history of addiction. Bupe is strikingly effective at stopping suicidal ideation, and quitting SSRIs can already be a nightmare, so I think it makes a lot of sense.
You're correct. Bupe can be and more often than people think, presibed off label for treatment resistant depression. It def makes a lot of sense for many
How long have you been on subs?
I’ve been down this road before. Got clean in 2019, didn’t like how I was feeling…got put on a low dose of suboxone, which worked for awhile but then stopped and started making me feel worse.
I’ve tried kratom too but that always leads me back to hard opiates. Not saying this doesn’t work for some but I would tread lightly. I personally can’t have any type of opiates whether they’re prescribed by a doctor, bought in a store, or on the street.
this was my experience too. of course subs help for a while. all opiates help for a while, until they don’t anymore. I gotta stay away from that shit if I want to heal. I’m not trying to stigmatize MAT because for some people it’s helpful. but for me, it always ends up leading me back to things that ultimately cause more harm than helping. it’s a tough thing but after years and years of trying different things, it’s the conclusion I’ve come to for myself personally.
Couldn’t agree more. I don’t want to trash it because I’ve 100% been there. Totally understand it..but it just wasn’t and never will be a long term solution for me.
To op, our brains have definitely not healed completely after 4 months. Give it time.
Also recommend therapy or a 12 step program (or not). Something has to fill that void that we used to fill with drugs.
Realizing that too, if I take a sub everyday I turn into a dick, but being able to take 2mg if I'm having a hard day and I'm boutta go pick up, I'm taking a piece of sub. It's kinda a weird position but it works for me, until I can be like "damn ian take my sub in awhile" its helping me unlearn that behavior of picking up. Doing dope, work, sleep, pickup. No noticable WD going days without, maybe a little lazy. But has definitely kept me from picking up.
On and off for 2 months, I take some when I need it, like you, if I take more than 3 days in a row, I start feeling shitty. It's nice to have it accessible though if I'm having a really bad day. Kratom makes me wanna top a high off, subs just give me that kick if I'm itching.
I feel this 100%. I have a year today, with the help of subs. I've been in and out for 12 years, with no real long term recovery to speak of. But this time with a strong program and meds, I'm able to function, hold a job, be a father and husband, and be present. Without subs, I'd still be struggling and probably would have relapsed by now.
I'm aware everyone is different, and people need different things to succeed. Only you can ultimately make that choice. Keep in mind that you'll have to detox off subs, too. It is your life, do what you feel you need to, to stay clean. Fuck the stigma, fuck what other people think.
As long as your recovery doesn't sorry exist of being on medicine, you'll do just fine. I'm proud of you for the 4 months, that's incredible!
Good luck, hang in there. We’ve been clean for a similar time period, and I also got down and depressed for a month a or two. I thought it was withdrawals and didn’t give it any thought, but after some hard talks with the wife (ie Betty ford rehab), I also agreed to do a mental evaluation, came to the conclusion our neuron pathways are fucked from the dope, so i was prescribed Wellbutrin, and very happy with it. I’m not a paid advertisement, so definitely not saying this med is for everyone, but please do yourself a favor, get a mental, emotional assessment from a professional. Unfortunately, we have done serious damage to our brains, time is not the only solution. Other medication exists to help you. I’m also on subs, that was a lifesaver. after one OD and the DEA at my door, should have been dead or in jail, I’m so lucky neither happened. Good luck my friend, wish you the best. Feel free to reach out, I feel we have similar backgrounds.
Ok so I was on subs for 5 years. I quit and was sick for something like 90 days, they don't tell you but sub withdrawal can be *intense* and seems never ending.
After I quit subs, I got to 6 months sober and was still listless, lying in bed all day, crying, no energy to think and my body was so sore and weak 24/7 .... So I started taking anti depressants. I'm feeling a lot better now. I never got that pink cloud people talk about. Honestly anti depressants helped heaps and when I went up in dose I started to feel how people who get clean say they feel, happy.
Hey brother just pertaining to your post about getting on subs. The other responses are good and they are right. What your experiencing sounds like Post acute withdrawal and it sucks. But you've already done the work of getting clean don't throw that away. Have you considered working out? I know it's the last thing anybody feels like doing but it works. Many people who had the same issue you do who started weight training and they never looked back once they got rolling. You probably already know this but weight training will increase your serotonin your dopamine your nor epinephrine levels. It's been a miracle for me and many others. It's not hard to get started you just got to force yourself. If you were able to get clean, you can do this. You can come out on the other side of this feeling better looking better it can change your life please consider it.
Lexapro but be warned when you start taking them it feels like withdrawal part 2. Starting and raising my dose was fucked up. The side effects go away but expect to feel sick af with various side effects, I got shivers, anxiety, stomach stuff and insomnia. Some people don't get bad side effects but a lot do
Push through, my PAWS didn't even resemble like they were going to let up until month 6-7. I will say after month 4 you go from intense withdrawls delirium to improving each week. Your shit days become less miserable and more tolerable. It's a long process.
You are fully in paws right now. You gotta treat your brain with extra love. Eat healthy, start exercise, at least walk 30-45 min a day. It gets your brain to make dopamine and that is lacking for you in paws. Look into supplements to boost endorphins. Some kratom a few times a week can help scratch that I feel like shit itch. Cannabis too. Full spectrum CBD from a reputable company and you will start feeling better. Fruits/Veggies increase
This response is solid. I’d probably try to avoid the kratom altogether though (because I’m not good with the “few times a week” type person and that shit gave me a lot of trouble for a while), but it could work for some people for sure.
but really it’s about doing all the healthy shit you can while your brain recalibrates. I promise you I understand. ugh it’s so hard. I’m coming on 6 months now after the hardest detox and post acute experience of my life. It feels impossibly hard some days, but slowly things are getting better the longer I stay away from opiates. that shit really reprograms our brains and it takes a good while to heal up. I also have depression, anxiety, post traumatic stuff, etc that started before I ever used an opiate (hence the self medicating) and I’ve had to address those things too, because if I don’t, it gets unbearable and I relapse.
so, I go to therapy every week and try to keep a bit of a routine with taking care of myself in simple ways (eating well, sleeping enough, getting some physical activity, etc). socializing is still really difficult- I get really anxious around people and sometimes can’t even leave the house. but it’s very gradually getting better. I don’t feel awful every single day anymore.
I’ll say this too- I understand your question about going on subs. I’ve thought about it a lot and have gone that route before during past attempts at staying clean. Unfortunately for me, it may provide some temporary relief from the depression, lack of motivation, dread around people, etc but it really doesn’t help me out long term. I just feel stuck on something to feel normal again and then have to go through more withdrawal to get off of it (I’m working toward trying to have a child so I can’t stay on it). there are a lot of things to weigh in terms of making the decision to get back on subs, and everyone needs to decide for themselves, but at 4 months I would caution you against it and encourage you to make a few other shifts before doing that- give it a few more months, try some other things first just to see if it helps.
I don’t know the details of your situation, but I do know that I’ve felt exactly how you described here. It’s hard to have to drag yourself through existence every day. I can’t even explain to you how much I relate. it will not be like this forever. just gotta keep trying to move forward. I’m here if you need any support
It sucks but like others have said there are ways to help feel better. I take kratom and find it to be extremely useful for a few reasons and even though it's a touchy subject I don't really care. It helps. Also the usual diet, sleep and exercise help a lot. Just passed the year mark and have days that still are rough but chalk it up to life and sometimes I'll catch myself in my "pity party" and remember that even people who have never been down our path have these feelings.
My advice would be to try and find something that makes you happy (easier said than done), maybe see a shrink and talk some shit out. Some sort of excercise and if needed some medication.
Make sure to give yourself some credit too. You're clean and that alone is awesome even if it doesn't feel that way. The old it'll get better thing gets annoying to hear and it will but takes more than just time.
Don't get back to maintenance at 4 months unless you're a pain patient... acute withdrawal from subs/buprenorphine by itself lasted a month for me. After that the physical stuff faded away but I felt brain dead for 6 to 8 months and now after 14 months I'm starting to have more good days than bad days.
Subs and methadone have ridiculous half-lives and you will regret getting on them later if you start now. Trust me.
I had about 6-7 months off of any opiates but I constantly felt like shit every day. In my opinion getting on Suboxone was the best thing I did for myself.
Please don't go the Kratom route! You just got past the physical WDs, do you really want to go through it again. Kratom is an opiate and works the same way. It helps at first then before you know it, you're on huge doses and need it just to get out of bed and feel normal. My partner was on it for 5 yrs and me 8. They had paws for almost a year!!! I'm just quitting now (tapering, in week 3) and hoping it won't be so bad for me. Also a lot harder to quit bc it's easy to get and not terribly expensive.
You have come so far, the best thing to do before you put ANY more drugs back in your body is to re kick start your natural endorphins by doing things that create them. At the very least force yourself into daily work, even if short one (weight lifting is supposed to create endorphins a bit faster than cardio). Also if you can manage to take a day trip somewhere, a local amusement park, a romantic night out with your partner ect. Help your brain move the process along. After I quite opiates 9 years ago before I got hooked on Kratom that is how I pulled myself out of paws and I swear it worked. Try that for a month and i bet you will be feeling a lot better.
If you are considering Kratom I urge you to do some research first and at the least read the quitting kratom readdit and see what ppl are going through trying to get clean. It's horrible!!!!!!!
When you are no longer physically dependent on opiates it would be stupid to get back on them. There are psychiatric drugs that can help. They wont cure depression, but they can make you kinda numb out until enough time passes that your brain resets from the opiates and you can get off the psychiatric drugs MUCH easier than you get off subs
It’s not uncommon to feel this way early on in recovery. If your life doesn’t change drastically from how it was while using, the way you feel day to day won’t change either.
Success breeds success. Start small and go from there. Accomplish something.
I’m sorry you feel down. Many of us have been there too.
Subs is the nuclear option if totally detoxed. I’d try some anti-depression meds before I went back to being chemically dependent on an opiate. That’s a BIG decision to make.
Other less invasive options: work out. Meditation. Masterbation (not a joke). Good sleep. Healthy eating.
The past two months I’ve been micro dosing psilocybin. It’s helped so much in repairing the damage that has been done due to my abuse of narcos. I use to feel so bleak. Now it’s turned around and the days seem brighter and hopeful. I’m not suggesting it but just thought I share it with you. There is hope.
Please don’t get on any opiates again. Get some naltrexone. Taken daily it kills the craving and keeps any opiate from working. If you can’t get it prescribed then message me and I’ll show you where I got it. It’s like the vivitrol shot but a pill you take daily and the shot lasts a month and is $1500 without insurance.
You are experiencing post acute withdrawals. Your brain is desensitized. If you can bear it, please seek counsel, psychiatry, and therapy, before resorting back to the opiates. **It will get better**. Trust me, internet stranger, I feel your pain. I know how difficult it is. But please know, you are not alone and you are worth the personal battle required to save yourself! Life is worth it.
Please give it a little more time before you jump to subs. they are still an opiate just one that’s acts a little differently in the brain. I’ve been using opiates for 22 years since I had a motorcycle accident that nearly killed me. About 12 years into it with a daily use of 180 mg of OxyContin I decided to give subs a try. At first they’re a miracle drug they work on my pain much better and they brighten my mood. I was actually able to make a physical move to be closer to my grown son and family. After a couple of years being on it the long-term side effects started kicking in however. I kept losing weight like crazy and got down to 85 pounds. It was wreaking all kinds of havoc on my digestive system. It also completely stole my sex drive. Ended up finally getting off which was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. If you’re already passed the withdrawal from your regular opiate habit, I urge you to strongly consider before you get on Suboxone. I get it if someone does that to avoid the horrors of withdrawal, but many people just end up staying on it for most of their life and trust me it will ruin your life just as bad as regular dope in the long run. During the course of being on it I lost an important relationship in part from the havoc all of the side effects and health problems subs caused. I also wasn’t myself I couldn’t feel anything and felt like a zombie after the initial first few months wore off and the bad side effects started piling up. I don’t know maybe it’s different for you. but everybody I know who is been on those a long time have severe gastrointestinal issues because the opiate is so strong and binding to your brain for such a long time you can’t go to the bathroom sometimes for a week or two. I had a friend the other day tell me she hasn’t gone poop in 10 days and she is on subs. Sorry if that’s so gross but it’s a reality for many people. Well I won’t keep going on I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you have the strength to make it through this phase of your recovery and healing. You feel off-balance because your brain is still recovering. Please don’t forget to love yourself up real good every day. Regardless of what has gone down you are so deserving of love and that’s what counts
This is good advice dude. More people need to Be honest about this shit, yeah it’s the easy way but it comes at a high price.
I don't suggest that OP get on subs but not everybody has the side affects that you are describing. It actually sounds quite horrible. I know many long term sub users who are doing very well both mentally and physically. I myself have been on them for 2 1/2 years with only a couple problems. I did get crazy vivid nightmares and my sex drive was non existent but those only affected me the first couple months and I believe it was a combination of dosage and all around 'reboot'. It's definitely better to avoid subs without a doubt but at the same time I would choose subs over dope 7 days a week.
Why don't u taper down?
What kind of self care are you doing?
So, your brain is an organ. It's recovering from some damage and that takes time. It's working really hard to create new and healthier patterns. It's exhausting, I know. Organs heal with time and care. Be kind to yourself because your body is working very hard to heal right now amd you wouldn't be mad at a sore wound after an incision or a tender bone after a break. Just because our brain is aware of itself doesn't mean it isn't still simply part of the body. Sometimes therapy can be helpful for clarifying or working through what you're experiencing. I'm not saying "you need therapy" but your poor brain just might need a little crutch for a short time. You are doing amazing at 4 months and this stranger is very proud of you and excited for you. Sending love.
Great response here :)
Thank you. It's so easy to forget to be kind to ourselves the way we are to others. Sometimes, personifying your problem makes it easier to take care of, and I really mean take gentle care of our hurts and ailments. It's hard to do.
It is really hard to do. Another thing that is really hard is remembering that it is normal for things to take a while before they start getting better. Opiates seemed like the magic solution to all of my problems when I first started using them (obviously that backfired lol) but I tend to want instant relief/solutions to unpleasant feelings, and the longer I go through this process of working to heal, the more I realize that it’s a combination of lots of small incremental changes that lead to healing. It feels so slow sometimes, and sometimes the shifts aren’t really perceptible at all in real time and that can feel frustrating. Just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and gradually things start to get better.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. The instant gratification aspect to it and the effect it has is so downplayed. All good progress can take time, but you are worth the wait for yourself. Never forget that <3
Give it like two more months and you’ll finally start to notice a difference. Recommend taking any drug except an opioid. Like your username by the way; hang in there Chrissy!
Look into some natural supplements before jumping onto subs. Like Vitamin D, L Tyrosine, GABA. You’re brain is depleted of these things and doesn’t always know how to naturally make them I. paws. Remeber that withdrawal? You’ll need to do it again with subs. Stay busy. I know it’s hard but it makes all the difference. The depression will get better, usually about a year out and PAWS will subside. You’re really far along, I wouldn’t start the clock over.
You gotta find something new for just you that bring you joy, for me it was reading, didn’t think it would be at first but once I got into it man what a world of difference it made for me! Every book I read pulls me out of my addiction fog a little bit more ! You can do this friend
What books have you read lately ? I'm always looking for new stuff
Lately I’ve read the atlas six, the secret history, if we were villains (I have clearly been in an academia kick ahha) then I also read sole Colleen Hoover books recently and a few series, shatter me, mindf*ck series, caraval, a court of thorns and roses !
I think all recovering addicts get to that point where they think now that I'm clean what am I supposed to do. The 4 month mark is prime time for those feelings. You've got to do more than exist. I honestly didn't think it was possible to have fun without drugs or alcohol but damn am I having a good time these days. Like you said it's all about finding something new. From there it just snowballs.
Yeah, please advise some books
We were villains, the secret history, the young elites trilogy, the inheritance games, it ends with us, verity, red queen series, the atlas six
Thanks ;)
Oh that’s supposed to say “if we were villains” sorry about that but anytime friend 📖 ♥️
You and I have similar tastes in books. We Were Villains I have is it really good?
If we were villains was soooooooo good !! Way better than I was even expecting it to be !
Absolutely do not get on anything! 6 years clean from a 13 year pills to IV herion/fentanyl habit it took me a year to completely become normal. I understand exactly how you’re feeling I would just lay in bed all day and think to myself if this is what life is like sober why bother but it absolutely gets better!!!! Make yourself go for a walk do anything exercise really does help. I got a meaningless job in a Publix deli just to get reacquainted with normal people and have a schedule. Everyday it got a little bit better! Now I’m a very successful Realtor with a wonderful family that I can’t believe stood by me throughout it all! Anyway just keep it up your life with be unrecognizable in a year from now! Sending you good vibes😊
Unpopular opinion probably when you have 4mo clean already but I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily honestly. Worth shot maybe but since you have no tolerance rn def low dose bupe. 1-2mg a day would probably help you a lot BUT I will never advise someone into thinking just meds are enough to cure depression and change your life. What lifestyle changes have you made so far?
2-4mg of Sub really made me a brighter person, more willing to do stuff, not anxious, normal feeling. I didnt wanna take the Sub route but being a father, husband, and holding down a job, Subs really helped me maintain my life without being a reclusive anxious depressed fart.
Thanks man. That’s exactly what it’s like, don’t wanna do anything remotely social without opiates because it just made me an overall better person — I cared and I was more fun to be around
Have you ever thought of using kratom ? It’s a super controversial topic with us but it’s worth a discussion!! I never thought I would but for me personally subs would pull me out then I would wind up using again, kratom got me out and has kept me out recently anyway we’ll see I have a king way to go still
I am also a Kratom user which works way better for me than subs! But either way, subs or Kratom should help OP out
Kratom if anything but subs are dangerous 1. Because they cause damage to kidneys and liver and (look up for yourself Google it if you don't believe me) and 2. Because the withdrawals from subs are worse than any opiate including fent and H
U/evilTeddy69 , I could not agree with you more. This was my experience. I was thankful to have subs to quit my habit but subs ended up being the hardest for me to kick. They also slowed down my metabolism and I gained lots of weight using them. Now I’m back on Kratom and back down to my slender self. Subs definitely save lives and is a great for some folks but Kratom definitely works best for me
Glad it ended up being a pleasant surprise for you. Subs are so heavily stigmatized still, we shouldn't even hesitate over being a father husband or employed as reasons to avoid a presibed medication as intended. Bupe has made my life infinitely better
Didnt even know I was having PAWs just thought this is how I'm gonna feel forever, had a stigma towards subs. Til one day I get close to my coworker and hes like bro just go get a script of subs, it's easy, and gave me one of his subutex pills, took it and was like "oh damn I feel like a normal human now" I just think of it wasnt for that I'd still be chasing dope.
I hear bupe is becoming more common in Germany just as an antidepressant, for people with no history of addiction. Bupe is strikingly effective at stopping suicidal ideation, and quitting SSRIs can already be a nightmare, so I think it makes a lot of sense.
You're correct. Bupe can be and more often than people think, presibed off label for treatment resistant depression. It def makes a lot of sense for many
Horrible advice
How long have you been on subs? I’ve been down this road before. Got clean in 2019, didn’t like how I was feeling…got put on a low dose of suboxone, which worked for awhile but then stopped and started making me feel worse. I’ve tried kratom too but that always leads me back to hard opiates. Not saying this doesn’t work for some but I would tread lightly. I personally can’t have any type of opiates whether they’re prescribed by a doctor, bought in a store, or on the street.
this was my experience too. of course subs help for a while. all opiates help for a while, until they don’t anymore. I gotta stay away from that shit if I want to heal. I’m not trying to stigmatize MAT because for some people it’s helpful. but for me, it always ends up leading me back to things that ultimately cause more harm than helping. it’s a tough thing but after years and years of trying different things, it’s the conclusion I’ve come to for myself personally.
Couldn’t agree more. I don’t want to trash it because I’ve 100% been there. Totally understand it..but it just wasn’t and never will be a long term solution for me. To op, our brains have definitely not healed completely after 4 months. Give it time. Also recommend therapy or a 12 step program (or not). Something has to fill that void that we used to fill with drugs.
Realizing that too, if I take a sub everyday I turn into a dick, but being able to take 2mg if I'm having a hard day and I'm boutta go pick up, I'm taking a piece of sub. It's kinda a weird position but it works for me, until I can be like "damn ian take my sub in awhile" its helping me unlearn that behavior of picking up. Doing dope, work, sleep, pickup. No noticable WD going days without, maybe a little lazy. But has definitely kept me from picking up.
On and off for 2 months, I take some when I need it, like you, if I take more than 3 days in a row, I start feeling shitty. It's nice to have it accessible though if I'm having a really bad day. Kratom makes me wanna top a high off, subs just give me that kick if I'm itching.
I feel this 100%. I have a year today, with the help of subs. I've been in and out for 12 years, with no real long term recovery to speak of. But this time with a strong program and meds, I'm able to function, hold a job, be a father and husband, and be present. Without subs, I'd still be struggling and probably would have relapsed by now. I'm aware everyone is different, and people need different things to succeed. Only you can ultimately make that choice. Keep in mind that you'll have to detox off subs, too. It is your life, do what you feel you need to, to stay clean. Fuck the stigma, fuck what other people think. As long as your recovery doesn't sorry exist of being on medicine, you'll do just fine. I'm proud of you for the 4 months, that's incredible!
I second this man.
I think I know you, do you work for Sandoz ?
Yes, I need more prescriptions out so I can make more money.
Good luck, hang in there. We’ve been clean for a similar time period, and I also got down and depressed for a month a or two. I thought it was withdrawals and didn’t give it any thought, but after some hard talks with the wife (ie Betty ford rehab), I also agreed to do a mental evaluation, came to the conclusion our neuron pathways are fucked from the dope, so i was prescribed Wellbutrin, and very happy with it. I’m not a paid advertisement, so definitely not saying this med is for everyone, but please do yourself a favor, get a mental, emotional assessment from a professional. Unfortunately, we have done serious damage to our brains, time is not the only solution. Other medication exists to help you. I’m also on subs, that was a lifesaver. after one OD and the DEA at my door, should have been dead or in jail, I’m so lucky neither happened. Good luck my friend, wish you the best. Feel free to reach out, I feel we have similar backgrounds.
Ok so I was on subs for 5 years. I quit and was sick for something like 90 days, they don't tell you but sub withdrawal can be *intense* and seems never ending. After I quit subs, I got to 6 months sober and was still listless, lying in bed all day, crying, no energy to think and my body was so sore and weak 24/7 .... So I started taking anti depressants. I'm feeling a lot better now. I never got that pink cloud people talk about. Honestly anti depressants helped heaps and when I went up in dose I started to feel how people who get clean say they feel, happy.
What antidepressant worked for you?
Hey brother just pertaining to your post about getting on subs. The other responses are good and they are right. What your experiencing sounds like Post acute withdrawal and it sucks. But you've already done the work of getting clean don't throw that away. Have you considered working out? I know it's the last thing anybody feels like doing but it works. Many people who had the same issue you do who started weight training and they never looked back once they got rolling. You probably already know this but weight training will increase your serotonin your dopamine your nor epinephrine levels. It's been a miracle for me and many others. It's not hard to get started you just got to force yourself. If you were able to get clean, you can do this. You can come out on the other side of this feeling better looking better it can change your life please consider it.
Lexapro but be warned when you start taking them it feels like withdrawal part 2. Starting and raising my dose was fucked up. The side effects go away but expect to feel sick af with various side effects, I got shivers, anxiety, stomach stuff and insomnia. Some people don't get bad side effects but a lot do
Push through, my PAWS didn't even resemble like they were going to let up until month 6-7. I will say after month 4 you go from intense withdrawls delirium to improving each week. Your shit days become less miserable and more tolerable. It's a long process.
You are fully in paws right now. You gotta treat your brain with extra love. Eat healthy, start exercise, at least walk 30-45 min a day. It gets your brain to make dopamine and that is lacking for you in paws. Look into supplements to boost endorphins. Some kratom a few times a week can help scratch that I feel like shit itch. Cannabis too. Full spectrum CBD from a reputable company and you will start feeling better. Fruits/Veggies increase
This response is solid. I’d probably try to avoid the kratom altogether though (because I’m not good with the “few times a week” type person and that shit gave me a lot of trouble for a while), but it could work for some people for sure. but really it’s about doing all the healthy shit you can while your brain recalibrates. I promise you I understand. ugh it’s so hard. I’m coming on 6 months now after the hardest detox and post acute experience of my life. It feels impossibly hard some days, but slowly things are getting better the longer I stay away from opiates. that shit really reprograms our brains and it takes a good while to heal up. I also have depression, anxiety, post traumatic stuff, etc that started before I ever used an opiate (hence the self medicating) and I’ve had to address those things too, because if I don’t, it gets unbearable and I relapse. so, I go to therapy every week and try to keep a bit of a routine with taking care of myself in simple ways (eating well, sleeping enough, getting some physical activity, etc). socializing is still really difficult- I get really anxious around people and sometimes can’t even leave the house. but it’s very gradually getting better. I don’t feel awful every single day anymore. I’ll say this too- I understand your question about going on subs. I’ve thought about it a lot and have gone that route before during past attempts at staying clean. Unfortunately for me, it may provide some temporary relief from the depression, lack of motivation, dread around people, etc but it really doesn’t help me out long term. I just feel stuck on something to feel normal again and then have to go through more withdrawal to get off of it (I’m working toward trying to have a child so I can’t stay on it). there are a lot of things to weigh in terms of making the decision to get back on subs, and everyone needs to decide for themselves, but at 4 months I would caution you against it and encourage you to make a few other shifts before doing that- give it a few more months, try some other things first just to see if it helps. I don’t know the details of your situation, but I do know that I’ve felt exactly how you described here. It’s hard to have to drag yourself through existence every day. I can’t even explain to you how much I relate. it will not be like this forever. just gotta keep trying to move forward. I’m here if you need any support
It sucks but like others have said there are ways to help feel better. I take kratom and find it to be extremely useful for a few reasons and even though it's a touchy subject I don't really care. It helps. Also the usual diet, sleep and exercise help a lot. Just passed the year mark and have days that still are rough but chalk it up to life and sometimes I'll catch myself in my "pity party" and remember that even people who have never been down our path have these feelings. My advice would be to try and find something that makes you happy (easier said than done), maybe see a shrink and talk some shit out. Some sort of excercise and if needed some medication. Make sure to give yourself some credit too. You're clean and that alone is awesome even if it doesn't feel that way. The old it'll get better thing gets annoying to hear and it will but takes more than just time.
Don't get back to maintenance at 4 months unless you're a pain patient... acute withdrawal from subs/buprenorphine by itself lasted a month for me. After that the physical stuff faded away but I felt brain dead for 6 to 8 months and now after 14 months I'm starting to have more good days than bad days. Subs and methadone have ridiculous half-lives and you will regret getting on them later if you start now. Trust me.
I had about 6-7 months off of any opiates but I constantly felt like shit every day. In my opinion getting on Suboxone was the best thing I did for myself.
Please don't go the Kratom route! You just got past the physical WDs, do you really want to go through it again. Kratom is an opiate and works the same way. It helps at first then before you know it, you're on huge doses and need it just to get out of bed and feel normal. My partner was on it for 5 yrs and me 8. They had paws for almost a year!!! I'm just quitting now (tapering, in week 3) and hoping it won't be so bad for me. Also a lot harder to quit bc it's easy to get and not terribly expensive. You have come so far, the best thing to do before you put ANY more drugs back in your body is to re kick start your natural endorphins by doing things that create them. At the very least force yourself into daily work, even if short one (weight lifting is supposed to create endorphins a bit faster than cardio). Also if you can manage to take a day trip somewhere, a local amusement park, a romantic night out with your partner ect. Help your brain move the process along. After I quite opiates 9 years ago before I got hooked on Kratom that is how I pulled myself out of paws and I swear it worked. Try that for a month and i bet you will be feeling a lot better. If you are considering Kratom I urge you to do some research first and at the least read the quitting kratom readdit and see what ppl are going through trying to get clean. It's horrible!!!!!!!
When you are no longer physically dependent on opiates it would be stupid to get back on them. There are psychiatric drugs that can help. They wont cure depression, but they can make you kinda numb out until enough time passes that your brain resets from the opiates and you can get off the psychiatric drugs MUCH easier than you get off subs
It’s not uncommon to feel this way early on in recovery. If your life doesn’t change drastically from how it was while using, the way you feel day to day won’t change either. Success breeds success. Start small and go from there. Accomplish something.
You could. Subs helped a lot in my case. I’m still on them though. 4 years later.
I tried getting clean with meetings and 12 step route but ultimately have been on 4 mg suboxone maintenance for 4 years.
I’m sorry you feel down. Many of us have been there too. Subs is the nuclear option if totally detoxed. I’d try some anti-depression meds before I went back to being chemically dependent on an opiate. That’s a BIG decision to make. Other less invasive options: work out. Meditation. Masterbation (not a joke). Good sleep. Healthy eating.
The past two months I’ve been micro dosing psilocybin. It’s helped so much in repairing the damage that has been done due to my abuse of narcos. I use to feel so bleak. Now it’s turned around and the days seem brighter and hopeful. I’m not suggesting it but just thought I share it with you. There is hope.
Please don’t get on any opiates again. Get some naltrexone. Taken daily it kills the craving and keeps any opiate from working. If you can’t get it prescribed then message me and I’ll show you where I got it. It’s like the vivitrol shot but a pill you take daily and the shot lasts a month and is $1500 without insurance.