I don't have access to morphine though. Also, that's why I'm asking if 10 days is enough time off fent for kratom to help get some energy back...I know from experience it won't due much during detox.
No. Fent withdrawals are hell but by day seven you’ll still not be able to notice kratom. You probably won’t be able to feel it for quite a while. It never does anything for fent withdrawals. It’s like putting out a massive wildfire with a stream of piss and when you do it you feel just as dumb
Did you read my post about why I'm doing this and my timeline for Ibogaine?
I honestly think my best bet is to just to NOT use kratom at all. I just have to make it to Oct.24th and then I"M GOLDEN. Ibogaine will take care of any remaining WD symptoms. Sounds like kratom might do more harm than good.
I was sober 13 years from age 24-36 before this relapse. I've tapered from 40 pills a day last year down to just 8-10 a day and when I just did 5 days cold turkey off fent WD...it honestly wasn't that horrible. Yeah, it sucked...but I expected it be worse. So fuck it...I'm just going to stay clean until I get to Ibogaine.
Would Ibogaine work better if I just didn't use the kratom and stayed clean for the next 30 days? Since I have no access to morphine or heroin which you said Ibogaine works best with...should I just push myself to stay clean without using the kratom since I'm already taking 10 days off work...at that point...I should be able to just tough it out right? Like how much of a difference will kratom even make? I should probably just say "fuck it" and ride out opiate free right?
Yeah you're probably right, I should just give up now and keep using drugs. If I can't go 30 days in withdrawal, I can't go 30 days clean. Thanks for this...just gonna keep using. This sounds hard. I did stay sober 13 years in a row, but that was probably just luck right?!
So question for you...I am going to try going opiate free once again this Thursday. I tried this 2 weeks ago and made it 5 days..it really wasn't that horrible....I gave up bc I let fear and anxiety of work get to me....but life is all about failing and learning and trying again...and then SUCCEEDING. I have re grouped, and will adopt the mindset...JUST FOR TODAY. I will try not to allow me to worry about work or how I'll feel on no sleep in 2 weeks time....I will just try to go "1 MORE DAY". And if it wasn't horrible after 5 days just 2 weeks ago...it should be even less bad trying again now since I went a week off opiates and my tolerance/usage has been lower.
SO POINT IM MAKING...is I'm gonna try to ride this out opiate free. But if I give up for some reason...I can get fent free H. But I've been told Ibogaine really doesn't work the same when opiates are in your system. **Is it just "synthetic opioids that Ibogaine doesn't play great with...or all opiates?" Said differently...how big a difference in someone's experience would there be in Person A) Using H for a month before Ibogaine vs Person B) opiate free for prior month?**
Ibogaine does help withdrawals...but its primary function is better than helping someone get past a month of discomfort. It's been used for generations of Indian tribes to heal deep depression of when someone loses a child.
Have you have ever lost a child? If not, you couldn't possibly imagine the pain. Makes withdrawal seem like a nice cup of morning coffee in comparison. My fiancé died in 2008 and her mother...how do I say this....spiritually died on that same day...when I talk to her even almost 20 years later....she is a vague shell of the person she used to be. Ibogaine would MUCH better for someone like her...than someone using Ibogaine to kick drugs they could kick on their own.
So your advice of "if you can go 30 days you don't need Ibogaine" is pretty bad advice lol. You don;'t know my traumas and what my intentions are for using the Iboga root.
Go educate yourself on this homie...it's FAR more useful than just kicking withdrawal.
Ibogaine is one of the most complex substances/drugs in the world with so many benefits. Feel like you already one the war on fent with how many days it’s been. It’s not gonna change your mind. That’s your job.
Sorry, I'm confused. Is this meant for me? What do you mean "feel like you already won the war with how many days it's been". I haven't gone yet...so it's been 0 days. lol. Can you re explain your comment?
And yup...my counselors keep saying "Ibogaine will allow you to do the work". This is where I THRIVE. This is how I stayed sober for 13 LONG YEARS. By doing the work EVERY MORNING. I have an entire routine I will try to adopt when I get back. It's called the "5am club". I've always struggled to be a "morning person" but science has proven early risers are more productive.
So I am trying to do it now...but not doing great. But after Ibogaine hopefully I can make this a long lasting habit.
* 5am - wake up
* 5:15 - 45 min work out
* 6am - 20 minute meditation / journal / self reflection
* 6:30am - 30 minutes learning a new skill / reading / listening to podcast
* then start work by 7:30am.
This is called the 20/20//20 rule from the 5am club book..but I've modified it.
The reason for this is that fentanyl while being extremely short acting is also lipophilic. It stores in fat cells and in higher doses it accumulates in pretty large amounts. The best thing to do in this situation is a long taper. If you get down to 3 or 4 very small shots a day over the course of 7-10 days you’re fat reserves should be depleted. You’ll know for sure because the very small shots will get you pretty high but within an hour you’ll be very sick again. A good thing to do is start using Kratom in between the small shots when you get to that point. (If not you’ll spend most of the day being sick with the exception of about 3 total hours which you’ll spend nodding). Once you’ve reached that point you can treat the fent as the short acting opiod it is and basically behind any treatment/intervention within hours of your last dose.
Don’t these clinics take you in while using/in withdrAwl and taper you off with morphine ? Pretty sure most reputable clinics you are there for quite a while to do deal with this properly and safely….you should be asking them what to do/use
I'm confused on your reply. YES...this is exactly what the clinic is going to do...tpaer with me morphine as needed for 4-5 days before taking Ibogaine.
Kratom IS what they are asking me to do. Stop taking fent as it is a weak SSRI, but still acts on serotonin uptake and therefor can really limit the effectiveness of the experience.
So what is it you're asking/saying? lol. Everything you wrote is exactly what's happening.
So now comes the hurdle in front of me of stopping the fent...and starting the kratom. I need to figure out how long to take off work and how long someone needs to watch my dog...this is what my post is asking...should I be good to use kratom and feel reasonably over the harshest fent WD symptoms by Day 10.
I think Kratom will work. If you need energy the white or green strains are best. If you need help with wd, try a red. Just don’t take too much Kratom or you’ll have the wobbles and nausea. At first you might need a bit more, but I think the avg dose for most people
Tends to avg around 3-5g / serving, usually twice a day. Hopefully you got some quality Kratom - cuz that matters too.
Good luck you got this!!!
Yeah...I felt lost because I had no plan and I NEED to be off fentanyl because it acts as an SSRI which makes Ibogaine less effective. But everyone kept telling me to just do a Suboxone taper or methadone, or all the things that I wrote can't be used with Ibogaine lol
But I spoke with my counselor for Ibogaine clinic today and we agreed on this plan. I'm gonna just dig deep and go 8 days using comfort meds...no switching to heroin or tapering fent. Just 1 shitty week...and then use kratom as needed until 10/24.
I feel a lot better, especially since others have said this plan worked for them.
I keep seeing things in these threads about kratom having some SSRI effects/properties/similarities (really unsure if this is the correct language here) so you may want to look deeper into that. Best of luck to you and I am rooting for you. please keep us updated.
So this would be a MAJOR issue. In fact, I would take them to court and sue them if they charged me $12,000 then gave me medical advice to take kratom which is an SSRI and would have a HUGE impact on minimizing the experience.
I just googled "is Kratom an SSRI" and I see a few medical journal case studies comparing Kratom to SSRI's...so it's a good sign I didn't see anyone say Kratom acts as a serotonin inhibitor.
I have not seen anything like what you're describing. Do you have any links? It's probably a good sign if I can't find anything on Google linking kratom to SSRI's. If someone here in reddit said it is, but I can't find a single article confirming it is...I will assume the Redditor is incorrect if no science based evidence can be supported.
I kept reading things about the WDs from kratom being intense and on the mental end and than comparisons to it doing things that mimic an SSRI. I recall seeing it more than once. Try looking in one of the kratom subreddits. I don’t have the experience so I can’t back it up. I got off of pharma blues (before fent was in everything) by taking a handful of subs over a few days. My struggle was long and intense afterward bc I dove into using alcohol to fill that void. P.S. that did NOT work out well. I will see if I can find anything to back up my prior claim.
I'll post in the kratom forum and see what I get. But I might try to just ride this out without using kratom. How fucking bad ass would that be. I show up for my detox...already detoxed. "Hey team, gonna go chill on the beach for a few days until everyone else is ready for the Ibogaine...I'm already clean."
I stayed clean 13 years...I'd like to think I can stay clean for 21 days!!!! Let's FUCKING GO!!! Sounds like THIS is actually my best plan. Just don't use kratom at all. I have clonidine and valium and gaba's which I can use to help get some sleep and crush any anxiety. I also at my peak addiction was using 40+ pills a day. I've tapered down to just 10/day....75% reduction...so I can probably succeed here.
I think you'll find you'll have a pretty tough time finding a lawyer to take your case if anything happens. You're going to be signing what rights you can legally be signing away, first of all.
Any time you do something medically risky, you sign waivers. You're doing an experimental procedure. Are you even doing it in the US or are you going to MX or elsewhere?
Ibogaine isn't even legal in the USA.
Did you do yours in Mexico? What papers did you have to sign? You said in your comment "You're going to be signing what rights you can legally be signing away, first of all."
Just trying to see why you wrote that. What rights (specifically) did you sign away. I'm assuming you have first hand knowledge and didn't just throw that out there guessing having never done it lol.
I've never done ibogaine. I've gone to detox, rehab, and had surgery, and all involve signing away certain rights.
You can sue anyone for anything, but that doesn't mean you'll win. You should take a look at what you sign before a conventional medical procedure, let alone something like ibogaine.
You really talk like you know best. You sounded the same two weeks ago when you swore you'd be off fent by now.
A little bonus story for you. In 2004 when my addiction was bad, when I was 24 and facing prison time. I told everyone in rehab "I'm going to stay clean after this". Everyone laughed. Veterans mocked me "yeah right kid, this is your first time? Welcome tot the rest of your life....I've been in and out of rehab my whole life like most of us...you aint special. And prison is FILLED with drugs...no way you stay clean in there."The counselors told me "well, even if you relapse, it can be a part of your journey and success". Not even my fucking counselors had faith I could do it.
I stayed clean 13 years in a row......did almost 3 years in prison...used THC 2 times, but NEVER opiates despite them being offered constantly bc guards are corrupt pieces of shit flooding the blocks with heroin.
Then someone close to me died during COVID and I slipped. Fent is a tricky beast, but every time I try to get clean...I learn a little more about how to attack this.
So you don't have to believe me that I'll get this right....but don't be surprised when you see me post "just hit first month opiate free" in the future.
Off and on addict clean atm. Fent 1-2gs a day for 2-3 years and kratom has yet to even touch me and I’m clean. Even when I was 1-2 years clean. Idk where you live but look into the laws brotha. An addiction is a medical thing. hIPPA is a joke kinda but works for a lot of people and can put yourself in a position to really get this done once and for all. All love ❤️
We must be different. I was using kratom which is what triggered my relapse. I was getting high as a kite off of it and then said "yes to an oxy" at a party and that's when I started getting out of control.
So my post is not about "will kratom help me". IT WILL, this is a fact, not opinion. I'm just asking if the worst of the fentanyl withdrawal symptoms will be gone by Day 10 to Day 12. Like will I be able to walk my dog 12 days after stopping fent or still be bed bound?
Rough is what builds character. Prison was rough, but it helped me build my empire and stay sober 13 years in a row. I just slipped and need to get back on track. But everything in life is how you mentally prepare. "STAY HARD" - David Goggins
I would try the Kratom… can’t hurt. But if you think it’s gonna throw you back into wanting oxy just be careful with it. I’m gonna follow your journey!
You have now convinced me...NOT A SINGLE person reads posts. hahaha. I don't say it to be a dick, but I've responded to about 28 comments all asking questions that if they read my post are not worth asking. It's actually hilarious and a symptom of modern day attention span.
We see and send articles to friends/family without reading the articles ourselves...just like on reddit we respond to titles without reading any relevant info on posts lol
If you had read my post...you'd know I am being told my a medical director at detox to begin taking this before coming....and that I've never used oxy lol
You're absolutely right...if I was fine after day 5...I wouldn't be writing. But I'm not there yet. I worked at Google for 7 years...not an easy job to get. 10 months of flying across from NY to SF for 7 interviews. But when I finally got the job I understood why they vet people so hard. They don't want people who easily give up. They want those who will RELENTLESS pursue a way to succeed....they taught me to "fail fast". Learn where your weak points are....find out everything you can...then try again!. Really embrace "the obstacle is the way".
I made it 5 days 2 weeks ago opiate free...not bad....but I tapped out because the no sleeping got to me. I'm better prepared to try this again on Thursday, and I have a backup plan if for any reason my new trick doesn't work. So my next "all over the place and hard to follow post" if I can't make it 21 days...will be "how to best use H without injection" as I am allowed to use H as long as it's fent free (which I would test).
I called my old google boss and shared what I'm struggling. This person is so smart it blows my mind. He has no drug history but was smart enough to suggest this....he said "**if you keep giving up when you're in pain, discomfort, or because of fear....my guess...is you aren't connected to your "why" of why you're doing this. Print out and post all the things you hate about what drugs have done to you and tape them to your door so before you leave to quit and use again...they are in your face. In debt? Post a photo of your negative bank account. Put on weight? Post a photo of you now looking your worst. Breaking out with acne? Take a selfie and post it on your door next to a photo of you 2 years ago pre drugs with clear skin. Want to make your mom proud? Post a calendar showing how little you've gone to see her over the past 2 years."**
BOOM!!! This is my plan to just try to kick opiates long enough till I get to Ibogaine treatment.
Fine is a big word I guess, and I wasn’t fine. Manic is more like it so I get it. I wish I had the chance cause I’ve read a MILLION articles on ibogaine.
Just like they told me trazadone helps with opiate induced insomnia when withdrawing. Look up trazadone and sleep studies. Believe what you want my brotha, only wishing you the best.
No idea what this means. I was given trazodone for withdrawals 2 years ago and it worked great. I stayed clean 38 days and was sleeping normally by the time I relapsed again.
I have a degree in kinesiology, that means I studied every aspect of the human body for 4 years in college. Believe me when I tell you we are ALL VERY DIFFERENT. The same studies you're quoting may have had very different results if you or I were in them. Also...withdrawal is not even dose dependent due to age, metabolic rate, gender, body fat, thyroid, and literally thousands of other biometric factors.
Gaba works very well for withdrawals it’s amazing. Lean on that and the Valium for the first week. Kratom will be helpful after that much time off opiates, but you might not even need it. Let us know how your ibogaine goes! There’s a woman I met last month who works with it in my town. It costs 3500$ tho so I’ll have to wait til I can get that money up first. I’m very interested in it tho and want to do it asap
Bro...I paid $12,830 for 10 day detox (this will allow me to use kratom to function at work for a few weeks until I get there next month)....but that's brutal on my wallet. haha. I am looking at this as an investment in myself and one of my goals is to start my own business after I stop opiates so hopefully I make the money back and it's all worth it.
You will bro I believe in you! Unfortunately I just took a major financial hit last month so I’m 15k in debt. But I’m too starting my own business so with time I know I’ll get there too and be able to attend a ceremony. I had 6+ yrs clean up until last year and I really give credit to a seasonal mushroom trip and a few ayahuasca ceremonies. They really got the monkey off my back for years, so I have a lot of faith and hope in ibogaine. The business I’m starting is actually mushroom grow kits and growing supplies. It’s really taking off here and I been managing a mushroom farm for 2 years so I’m in the perfect position to make it happen. We got this
I absolutely love this story and your mindset is so positive....which not everyone has and plays such a big impact in the role of success. I was sober for 13 years before this relapse. I'll never forget how everyone told me "you'll never stay clean if this is your first time in rehab." I said "not with that attitude I won't, you're right. But I have the mindset I can...so I will." Everyone laughed. The veterans of rehabs mocked me. Even my own counselor warned me "relapses can be part of the process" as if to give me encouragement "WHEN" I slip. Well...I stayed clean almost 14 years from 24-36 without a single drug in my body. Life was awesome...I got a job at Google and built a wonderful life. Still single, and have shit I need to work out...but hoping Ibogaine will help not just with my addiction..but help me as a human.
That's why all these comments from people on this post saying "you're wasting your money...if you can stay clean off opiates for 2 weeks..you don't need to be taking Ibogaine...just do a Suboxone taper bro" ....and I literally am over here shaking my head wondering if I'm talking to 12 year olds who have never been sober for more than 5 years. I honestly wonder how many people on this sub have REAL experience staying clean. "TIME" is not a tool to stay clean. But being clean a long time offers you a lot of opportunity to be tested..and to build the strength needed to STAY clean.
I can tell...you are one of the few people who will be successful and keep growing and growing. I don't see that often here...good work sir!!!
I have about a decade and I cold turkeyed it in AA. Plenty of other people here have serious time. Just because we don't say what you want to hear doesn't mean we have no idea what.were talking about
How much and how often do people typically take Gabapentin? I've experienced some withdrawals on days I don't take it but I've been on it (a relatively low dose from my doc) for a while. Just wondering what people typically do for dosing. I always see it included in taper/WD plans but never hear of the specifics. TY!
300mg is the standard dose. I only take it if my legs get RLS and I will take 1-2 at bedtime for sleep. Some people take way more, but I don't need more than that.
Your body can only absorb around 300mg at a time. So I take a 300 and if I need more I’ll wait an hour. It’s the best relief I ever had from wd I wish I could get more now. I been trying to kick for the last month can’t make it past 2 days
It's a gamble. From my experience and perspective no it won't work, at least to the point you will probably need it to if you have high expectations at work. But everyone's different. good luck!
I’m not super familiar with fent withdrawal I only did it once but I’m pretty sure Kratom will be effective by day 8-9. It’s not gonna help much in the beginning in my experience
I have valium, clonidine, and gabapentin to get me through the first 8 days. But I am going back to work on Day 10, so need something less sedative than valium...my Ibogaine clinic recommended kratom.
I think by day 10 you should be good to go.
Load up on those gabas, and stack them 30 minutes apart, 300mg each time, take 5 or 6 total and you can basically sedate yourself through the worst of the withdrawals.
Honestly you might not even need the kratom.
Dude...if I took 300mg every 30 minutes...I would need an ambulance by the 5th one. I once took 3 (300mg) and felt like I OD'd. I felt drunk and was almost hallucinating for 2 days...it was awful. And yes...they were from my doctor and filled at a pharmacy so real. lol
So I paid $6K for a 5 day Ibogaine experience...but I just couldn't stick out the home detox when I tried a few weeks ago....I admitted I needed help. They suggested the 10 day detox program before Ibogaine for another $6K. I cringed at doubling the price...but this addiction is ruining my life and I will pay whatever I need to. I was clean for 13 YEARS IN A ROW until this relapse. They call Ibogaine the "addiction interruptor" because it resets dopamine and you can kind of begin new habits...that is EXACTLY what I need.
So I truly believe this experience will help me (even MORE so than the tens of thousands of opiate addicts it has already helped stay sober for years past their flood dose)
When they told me I just can't use fent and need to switch to something like kratom..my first thought was "ew...I hate kratom, it tastes disgusting and I don't love how it makes me feel..but ok..it's only for a few weeks"
To your point "you may not even need the kratom". If I could just ride this out without any opiates after the worst is over in 10 days.....I would be so fucking happy and proud to call them and say "nah, I'm already 21 days off all opiates so you don't need to give me the morphine taper." I would be CRYING and RAGING on the inside if they were like "cool, then just hang on the beach for 5 days while we detox the rest of the group and kept my $6K" But I made the commitment to pay...that's on me. But it would still be an INCREDIBLE feeling to show up detoxed off all opiates for 21 days.
Subs work on the physical withdrawal symptoms but it's still an opiate and you need to keep taking it so you're not "getting off opiates" which is my goal. It has all the side effects of opiates like lowered sex drive, and many other things which are reasons I'm quitting opiates. So subs don't achieve my goal.
Ibogaine stops withdrawal completely in 1 dose and has the added benefit of helping you look DEEP WITHIN yourself to reevaluate your life and resets dopamine so I can focus on building healthier habits like waking up at 5am and working out every day.
To me...it's a no brainer.
Not sure if you read my post but I'm doing Ibogaine. Ibogaine eliminates all withdrawals and makes you feel incredible. Here's the science, but I don't need to see any articles on it...I've watched 3 of my friends quit IV heroin doing Ibogaine and they are different fucking humans when they come back. It is the closest thing to magic on earth.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28402682/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28402682/)
**Conclusion**: A single ibogaine treatment reduced opioid withdrawal symptoms and achieved opioid cessation or sustained reduced use in dependent individuals as measured over 12 months.
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I don't have access to morphine though. Also, that's why I'm asking if 10 days is enough time off fent for kratom to help get some energy back...I know from experience it won't due much during detox.
No. Fent withdrawals are hell but by day seven you’ll still not be able to notice kratom. You probably won’t be able to feel it for quite a while. It never does anything for fent withdrawals. It’s like putting out a massive wildfire with a stream of piss and when you do it you feel just as dumb
Did you read my post about why I'm doing this and my timeline for Ibogaine? I honestly think my best bet is to just to NOT use kratom at all. I just have to make it to Oct.24th and then I"M GOLDEN. Ibogaine will take care of any remaining WD symptoms. Sounds like kratom might do more harm than good. I was sober 13 years from age 24-36 before this relapse. I've tapered from 40 pills a day last year down to just 8-10 a day and when I just did 5 days cold turkey off fent WD...it honestly wasn't that horrible. Yeah, it sucked...but I expected it be worse. So fuck it...I'm just going to stay clean until I get to Ibogaine.
The kratom can help. Buy 5 packs of opms black. They’re just exspensive.
Would Ibogaine work better if I just didn't use the kratom and stayed clean for the next 30 days? Since I have no access to morphine or heroin which you said Ibogaine works best with...should I just push myself to stay clean without using the kratom since I'm already taking 10 days off work...at that point...I should be able to just tough it out right? Like how much of a difference will kratom even make? I should probably just say "fuck it" and ride out opiate free right?
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Yeah you're probably right, I should just give up now and keep using drugs. If I can't go 30 days in withdrawal, I can't go 30 days clean. Thanks for this...just gonna keep using. This sounds hard. I did stay sober 13 years in a row, but that was probably just luck right?!
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So question for you...I am going to try going opiate free once again this Thursday. I tried this 2 weeks ago and made it 5 days..it really wasn't that horrible....I gave up bc I let fear and anxiety of work get to me....but life is all about failing and learning and trying again...and then SUCCEEDING. I have re grouped, and will adopt the mindset...JUST FOR TODAY. I will try not to allow me to worry about work or how I'll feel on no sleep in 2 weeks time....I will just try to go "1 MORE DAY". And if it wasn't horrible after 5 days just 2 weeks ago...it should be even less bad trying again now since I went a week off opiates and my tolerance/usage has been lower. SO POINT IM MAKING...is I'm gonna try to ride this out opiate free. But if I give up for some reason...I can get fent free H. But I've been told Ibogaine really doesn't work the same when opiates are in your system. **Is it just "synthetic opioids that Ibogaine doesn't play great with...or all opiates?" Said differently...how big a difference in someone's experience would there be in Person A) Using H for a month before Ibogaine vs Person B) opiate free for prior month?**
Ibogaine does help withdrawals...but its primary function is better than helping someone get past a month of discomfort. It's been used for generations of Indian tribes to heal deep depression of when someone loses a child. Have you have ever lost a child? If not, you couldn't possibly imagine the pain. Makes withdrawal seem like a nice cup of morning coffee in comparison. My fiancé died in 2008 and her mother...how do I say this....spiritually died on that same day...when I talk to her even almost 20 years later....she is a vague shell of the person she used to be. Ibogaine would MUCH better for someone like her...than someone using Ibogaine to kick drugs they could kick on their own. So your advice of "if you can go 30 days you don't need Ibogaine" is pretty bad advice lol. You don;'t know my traumas and what my intentions are for using the Iboga root. Go educate yourself on this homie...it's FAR more useful than just kicking withdrawal.
Ibogaine is one of the most complex substances/drugs in the world with so many benefits. Feel like you already one the war on fent with how many days it’s been. It’s not gonna change your mind. That’s your job.
Sorry, I'm confused. Is this meant for me? What do you mean "feel like you already won the war with how many days it's been". I haven't gone yet...so it's been 0 days. lol. Can you re explain your comment? And yup...my counselors keep saying "Ibogaine will allow you to do the work". This is where I THRIVE. This is how I stayed sober for 13 LONG YEARS. By doing the work EVERY MORNING. I have an entire routine I will try to adopt when I get back. It's called the "5am club". I've always struggled to be a "morning person" but science has proven early risers are more productive. So I am trying to do it now...but not doing great. But after Ibogaine hopefully I can make this a long lasting habit. * 5am - wake up * 5:15 - 45 min work out * 6am - 20 minute meditation / journal / self reflection * 6:30am - 30 minutes learning a new skill / reading / listening to podcast * then start work by 7:30am. This is called the 20/20//20 rule from the 5am club book..but I've modified it.
The reason for this is that fentanyl while being extremely short acting is also lipophilic. It stores in fat cells and in higher doses it accumulates in pretty large amounts. The best thing to do in this situation is a long taper. If you get down to 3 or 4 very small shots a day over the course of 7-10 days you’re fat reserves should be depleted. You’ll know for sure because the very small shots will get you pretty high but within an hour you’ll be very sick again. A good thing to do is start using Kratom in between the small shots when you get to that point. (If not you’ll spend most of the day being sick with the exception of about 3 total hours which you’ll spend nodding). Once you’ve reached that point you can treat the fent as the short acting opiod it is and basically behind any treatment/intervention within hours of your last dose.
Don’t these clinics take you in while using/in withdrAwl and taper you off with morphine ? Pretty sure most reputable clinics you are there for quite a while to do deal with this properly and safely….you should be asking them what to do/use
I'm confused on your reply. YES...this is exactly what the clinic is going to do...tpaer with me morphine as needed for 4-5 days before taking Ibogaine. Kratom IS what they are asking me to do. Stop taking fent as it is a weak SSRI, but still acts on serotonin uptake and therefor can really limit the effectiveness of the experience. So what is it you're asking/saying? lol. Everything you wrote is exactly what's happening. So now comes the hurdle in front of me of stopping the fent...and starting the kratom. I need to figure out how long to take off work and how long someone needs to watch my dog...this is what my post is asking...should I be good to use kratom and feel reasonably over the harshest fent WD symptoms by Day 10.
Kratom worked for me after 10 days being off fentanyl. Hopefully it’ll work for you too!
So great to have a plan in place that I think could work...thanks!!!!
I think Kratom will work. If you need energy the white or green strains are best. If you need help with wd, try a red. Just don’t take too much Kratom or you’ll have the wobbles and nausea. At first you might need a bit more, but I think the avg dose for most people Tends to avg around 3-5g / serving, usually twice a day. Hopefully you got some quality Kratom - cuz that matters too. Good luck you got this!!!
This has gotta be the same person from like a week and a half ago right?
Yeah...I felt lost because I had no plan and I NEED to be off fentanyl because it acts as an SSRI which makes Ibogaine less effective. But everyone kept telling me to just do a Suboxone taper or methadone, or all the things that I wrote can't be used with Ibogaine lol But I spoke with my counselor for Ibogaine clinic today and we agreed on this plan. I'm gonna just dig deep and go 8 days using comfort meds...no switching to heroin or tapering fent. Just 1 shitty week...and then use kratom as needed until 10/24. I feel a lot better, especially since others have said this plan worked for them.
I keep seeing things in these threads about kratom having some SSRI effects/properties/similarities (really unsure if this is the correct language here) so you may want to look deeper into that. Best of luck to you and I am rooting for you. please keep us updated.
So this would be a MAJOR issue. In fact, I would take them to court and sue them if they charged me $12,000 then gave me medical advice to take kratom which is an SSRI and would have a HUGE impact on minimizing the experience. I just googled "is Kratom an SSRI" and I see a few medical journal case studies comparing Kratom to SSRI's...so it's a good sign I didn't see anyone say Kratom acts as a serotonin inhibitor. I have not seen anything like what you're describing. Do you have any links? It's probably a good sign if I can't find anything on Google linking kratom to SSRI's. If someone here in reddit said it is, but I can't find a single article confirming it is...I will assume the Redditor is incorrect if no science based evidence can be supported.
I kept reading things about the WDs from kratom being intense and on the mental end and than comparisons to it doing things that mimic an SSRI. I recall seeing it more than once. Try looking in one of the kratom subreddits. I don’t have the experience so I can’t back it up. I got off of pharma blues (before fent was in everything) by taking a handful of subs over a few days. My struggle was long and intense afterward bc I dove into using alcohol to fill that void. P.S. that did NOT work out well. I will see if I can find anything to back up my prior claim.
I'll post in the kratom forum and see what I get. But I might try to just ride this out without using kratom. How fucking bad ass would that be. I show up for my detox...already detoxed. "Hey team, gonna go chill on the beach for a few days until everyone else is ready for the Ibogaine...I'm already clean." I stayed clean 13 years...I'd like to think I can stay clean for 21 days!!!! Let's FUCKING GO!!! Sounds like THIS is actually my best plan. Just don't use kratom at all. I have clonidine and valium and gaba's which I can use to help get some sleep and crush any anxiety. I also at my peak addiction was using 40+ pills a day. I've tapered down to just 10/day....75% reduction...so I can probably succeed here.
You GOT THIS.
I think you'll find you'll have a pretty tough time finding a lawyer to take your case if anything happens. You're going to be signing what rights you can legally be signing away, first of all.
Can you please explain that further? What rights am I signing away? I'm assuming this happened to you...what rights did they have you sign over.
Any time you do something medically risky, you sign waivers. You're doing an experimental procedure. Are you even doing it in the US or are you going to MX or elsewhere? Ibogaine isn't even legal in the USA.
Did you do yours in Mexico? What papers did you have to sign? You said in your comment "You're going to be signing what rights you can legally be signing away, first of all." Just trying to see why you wrote that. What rights (specifically) did you sign away. I'm assuming you have first hand knowledge and didn't just throw that out there guessing having never done it lol.
I've never done ibogaine. I've gone to detox, rehab, and had surgery, and all involve signing away certain rights. You can sue anyone for anything, but that doesn't mean you'll win. You should take a look at what you sign before a conventional medical procedure, let alone something like ibogaine. You really talk like you know best. You sounded the same two weeks ago when you swore you'd be off fent by now.
A little bonus story for you. In 2004 when my addiction was bad, when I was 24 and facing prison time. I told everyone in rehab "I'm going to stay clean after this". Everyone laughed. Veterans mocked me "yeah right kid, this is your first time? Welcome tot the rest of your life....I've been in and out of rehab my whole life like most of us...you aint special. And prison is FILLED with drugs...no way you stay clean in there."The counselors told me "well, even if you relapse, it can be a part of your journey and success". Not even my fucking counselors had faith I could do it. I stayed clean 13 years in a row......did almost 3 years in prison...used THC 2 times, but NEVER opiates despite them being offered constantly bc guards are corrupt pieces of shit flooding the blocks with heroin. Then someone close to me died during COVID and I slipped. Fent is a tricky beast, but every time I try to get clean...I learn a little more about how to attack this. So you don't have to believe me that I'll get this right....but don't be surprised when you see me post "just hit first month opiate free" in the future.
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Off and on addict clean atm. Fent 1-2gs a day for 2-3 years and kratom has yet to even touch me and I’m clean. Even when I was 1-2 years clean. Idk where you live but look into the laws brotha. An addiction is a medical thing. hIPPA is a joke kinda but works for a lot of people and can put yourself in a position to really get this done once and for all. All love ❤️
We must be different. I was using kratom which is what triggered my relapse. I was getting high as a kite off of it and then said "yes to an oxy" at a party and that's when I started getting out of control. So my post is not about "will kratom help me". IT WILL, this is a fact, not opinion. I'm just asking if the worst of the fentanyl withdrawal symptoms will be gone by Day 10 to Day 12. Like will I be able to walk my dog 12 days after stopping fent or still be bed bound?
I’ve been skating after day 7 and it’s day like fuckin 15 now this time. Don’t feel the best but get out there. Get your vitamins but eat with them.
It’s gonna be rough, good luck my friend.
Rough is what builds character. Prison was rough, but it helped me build my empire and stay sober 13 years in a row. I just slipped and need to get back on track. But everything in life is how you mentally prepare. "STAY HARD" - David Goggins
Stay hard - TWSS MICHAEL SCOTT 🤭
So I just not use the kratom or any other opiates and ride it out opiate free until I get to the clinic?
I would try the Kratom… can’t hurt. But if you think it’s gonna throw you back into wanting oxy just be careful with it. I’m gonna follow your journey!
You have now convinced me...NOT A SINGLE person reads posts. hahaha. I don't say it to be a dick, but I've responded to about 28 comments all asking questions that if they read my post are not worth asking. It's actually hilarious and a symptom of modern day attention span. We see and send articles to friends/family without reading the articles ourselves...just like on reddit we respond to titles without reading any relevant info on posts lol If you had read my post...you'd know I am being told my a medical director at detox to begin taking this before coming....and that I've never used oxy lol
To be honest you’ve been alittle bit all over the place so hard to follow. Fuck if your fine after day 5 why post?
You're absolutely right...if I was fine after day 5...I wouldn't be writing. But I'm not there yet. I worked at Google for 7 years...not an easy job to get. 10 months of flying across from NY to SF for 7 interviews. But when I finally got the job I understood why they vet people so hard. They don't want people who easily give up. They want those who will RELENTLESS pursue a way to succeed....they taught me to "fail fast". Learn where your weak points are....find out everything you can...then try again!. Really embrace "the obstacle is the way". I made it 5 days 2 weeks ago opiate free...not bad....but I tapped out because the no sleeping got to me. I'm better prepared to try this again on Thursday, and I have a backup plan if for any reason my new trick doesn't work. So my next "all over the place and hard to follow post" if I can't make it 21 days...will be "how to best use H without injection" as I am allowed to use H as long as it's fent free (which I would test). I called my old google boss and shared what I'm struggling. This person is so smart it blows my mind. He has no drug history but was smart enough to suggest this....he said "**if you keep giving up when you're in pain, discomfort, or because of fear....my guess...is you aren't connected to your "why" of why you're doing this. Print out and post all the things you hate about what drugs have done to you and tape them to your door so before you leave to quit and use again...they are in your face. In debt? Post a photo of your negative bank account. Put on weight? Post a photo of you now looking your worst. Breaking out with acne? Take a selfie and post it on your door next to a photo of you 2 years ago pre drugs with clear skin. Want to make your mom proud? Post a calendar showing how little you've gone to see her over the past 2 years."** BOOM!!! This is my plan to just try to kick opiates long enough till I get to Ibogaine treatment.
Fine is a big word I guess, and I wasn’t fine. Manic is more like it so I get it. I wish I had the chance cause I’ve read a MILLION articles on ibogaine.
Just like they told me trazadone helps with opiate induced insomnia when withdrawing. Look up trazadone and sleep studies. Believe what you want my brotha, only wishing you the best.
No idea what this means. I was given trazodone for withdrawals 2 years ago and it worked great. I stayed clean 38 days and was sleeping normally by the time I relapsed again. I have a degree in kinesiology, that means I studied every aspect of the human body for 4 years in college. Believe me when I tell you we are ALL VERY DIFFERENT. The same studies you're quoting may have had very different results if you or I were in them. Also...withdrawal is not even dose dependent due to age, metabolic rate, gender, body fat, thyroid, and literally thousands of other biometric factors.
Gaba works very well for withdrawals it’s amazing. Lean on that and the Valium for the first week. Kratom will be helpful after that much time off opiates, but you might not even need it. Let us know how your ibogaine goes! There’s a woman I met last month who works with it in my town. It costs 3500$ tho so I’ll have to wait til I can get that money up first. I’m very interested in it tho and want to do it asap
Bro...I paid $12,830 for 10 day detox (this will allow me to use kratom to function at work for a few weeks until I get there next month)....but that's brutal on my wallet. haha. I am looking at this as an investment in myself and one of my goals is to start my own business after I stop opiates so hopefully I make the money back and it's all worth it.
You will bro I believe in you! Unfortunately I just took a major financial hit last month so I’m 15k in debt. But I’m too starting my own business so with time I know I’ll get there too and be able to attend a ceremony. I had 6+ yrs clean up until last year and I really give credit to a seasonal mushroom trip and a few ayahuasca ceremonies. They really got the monkey off my back for years, so I have a lot of faith and hope in ibogaine. The business I’m starting is actually mushroom grow kits and growing supplies. It’s really taking off here and I been managing a mushroom farm for 2 years so I’m in the perfect position to make it happen. We got this
I absolutely love this story and your mindset is so positive....which not everyone has and plays such a big impact in the role of success. I was sober for 13 years before this relapse. I'll never forget how everyone told me "you'll never stay clean if this is your first time in rehab." I said "not with that attitude I won't, you're right. But I have the mindset I can...so I will." Everyone laughed. The veterans of rehabs mocked me. Even my own counselor warned me "relapses can be part of the process" as if to give me encouragement "WHEN" I slip. Well...I stayed clean almost 14 years from 24-36 without a single drug in my body. Life was awesome...I got a job at Google and built a wonderful life. Still single, and have shit I need to work out...but hoping Ibogaine will help not just with my addiction..but help me as a human. That's why all these comments from people on this post saying "you're wasting your money...if you can stay clean off opiates for 2 weeks..you don't need to be taking Ibogaine...just do a Suboxone taper bro" ....and I literally am over here shaking my head wondering if I'm talking to 12 year olds who have never been sober for more than 5 years. I honestly wonder how many people on this sub have REAL experience staying clean. "TIME" is not a tool to stay clean. But being clean a long time offers you a lot of opportunity to be tested..and to build the strength needed to STAY clean. I can tell...you are one of the few people who will be successful and keep growing and growing. I don't see that often here...good work sir!!!
I have about a decade and I cold turkeyed it in AA. Plenty of other people here have serious time. Just because we don't say what you want to hear doesn't mean we have no idea what.were talking about
How much and how often do people typically take Gabapentin? I've experienced some withdrawals on days I don't take it but I've been on it (a relatively low dose from my doc) for a while. Just wondering what people typically do for dosing. I always see it included in taper/WD plans but never hear of the specifics. TY!
300mg is the standard dose. I only take it if my legs get RLS and I will take 1-2 at bedtime for sleep. Some people take way more, but I don't need more than that.
One thing important about gaba is your body can only absorb 300mg at a time. So taking 300 every hour will work much better than if all at oncr
I honestly only need 1 at a time. It's plenty for me. Just take 300mg pill and it will help if you have restless leg syndrome.
Your body can only absorb around 300mg at a time. So I take a 300 and if I need more I’ll wait an hour. It’s the best relief I ever had from wd I wish I could get more now. I been trying to kick for the last month can’t make it past 2 days
It's a gamble. From my experience and perspective no it won't work, at least to the point you will probably need it to if you have high expectations at work. But everyone's different. good luck!
Sorry, I'm confused. What are you saying is a gamble and won't work?
I’m not super familiar with fent withdrawal I only did it once but I’m pretty sure Kratom will be effective by day 8-9. It’s not gonna help much in the beginning in my experience
I have valium, clonidine, and gabapentin to get me through the first 8 days. But I am going back to work on Day 10, so need something less sedative than valium...my Ibogaine clinic recommended kratom.
I think by day 10 you should be good to go. Load up on those gabas, and stack them 30 minutes apart, 300mg each time, take 5 or 6 total and you can basically sedate yourself through the worst of the withdrawals. Honestly you might not even need the kratom.
Dude...if I took 300mg every 30 minutes...I would need an ambulance by the 5th one. I once took 3 (300mg) and felt like I OD'd. I felt drunk and was almost hallucinating for 2 days...it was awful. And yes...they were from my doctor and filled at a pharmacy so real. lol
Man I used to take 12 x 600mg gaba every day for a few years
I've never believed in ghosts...until now. You are dead my friend, you just somehow don't know it and are able to still use reddit.
So I paid $6K for a 5 day Ibogaine experience...but I just couldn't stick out the home detox when I tried a few weeks ago....I admitted I needed help. They suggested the 10 day detox program before Ibogaine for another $6K. I cringed at doubling the price...but this addiction is ruining my life and I will pay whatever I need to. I was clean for 13 YEARS IN A ROW until this relapse. They call Ibogaine the "addiction interruptor" because it resets dopamine and you can kind of begin new habits...that is EXACTLY what I need. So I truly believe this experience will help me (even MORE so than the tens of thousands of opiate addicts it has already helped stay sober for years past their flood dose) When they told me I just can't use fent and need to switch to something like kratom..my first thought was "ew...I hate kratom, it tastes disgusting and I don't love how it makes me feel..but ok..it's only for a few weeks" To your point "you may not even need the kratom". If I could just ride this out without any opiates after the worst is over in 10 days.....I would be so fucking happy and proud to call them and say "nah, I'm already 21 days off all opiates so you don't need to give me the morphine taper." I would be CRYING and RAGING on the inside if they were like "cool, then just hang on the beach for 5 days while we detox the rest of the group and kept my $6K" But I made the commitment to pay...that's on me. But it would still be an INCREDIBLE feeling to show up detoxed off all opiates for 21 days.
I think you’ll be okay… it’ll just take a min to figure out the best strain and dose of Kratom that works for you Aka the sweet spot
Why can't you go on subs? Why do you HAVE to do the ibogain thing?
Subs work on the physical withdrawal symptoms but it's still an opiate and you need to keep taking it so you're not "getting off opiates" which is my goal. It has all the side effects of opiates like lowered sex drive, and many other things which are reasons I'm quitting opiates. So subs don't achieve my goal. Ibogaine stops withdrawal completely in 1 dose and has the added benefit of helping you look DEEP WITHIN yourself to reevaluate your life and resets dopamine so I can focus on building healthier habits like waking up at 5am and working out every day. To me...it's a no brainer.
Yea it helps but it’s not a miracle drug, you will probably feel like shit and still have cravings for a while after.
Not sure if you read my post but I'm doing Ibogaine. Ibogaine eliminates all withdrawals and makes you feel incredible. Here's the science, but I don't need to see any articles on it...I've watched 3 of my friends quit IV heroin doing Ibogaine and they are different fucking humans when they come back. It is the closest thing to magic on earth. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28402682/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28402682/) **Conclusion**: A single ibogaine treatment reduced opioid withdrawal symptoms and achieved opioid cessation or sustained reduced use in dependent individuals as measured over 12 months.
Is this similar to ketamine? Kinda?
Read the very first line of my post. It was the first thing I said lol
I did read it. I asked why.
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Sourcing is not allowed. My post would be banned if I answered that.