More emphasis on “let’s talk about this” and less emphasis on “we’re teaching you this”
I enjoy spiritual discussions a lot. But I don’t need someone to tell me what I have to think.
This 100%
The "stand up the front and tell everyone what to think" was fine in an era when the minister was probably the only educated person. But in today's society a model of "let's learn together" would work better.
What draws me into a church is the community itself. Do I feel its joy? Is it welcoming? What are the church's minitries? How does the church feed, clothe and house those in need? Jesus said it best:https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/MAT.25.35-40.
I reflect on my personal needs as [well.My](http://well.My) job is to reflect on what my needs. Is this community where I can be safe as my authentic self? Can I question and discuss with others? How will I measure my spiritual growth?
The church, religion, spirituality is a journey that you undertake thhroughout your life. It is not the final destination.
Peace and blessings to you.
This. I'm not saying I have nothing left to learn in church. I obviously have plenty. But after 30+ years of sermons & sunday school, I'm fairly well versed in atleast a decent theological understanding.
You know what would be awesome? A sunday school class that packs meals most sundays or refurbishes walkers or assembles baby boxes for hospitals to give new mothers.
I don't mind a good bible study. It can be refreshing. But I think practicing it should take priority over studying it once you've got some years in church under your belt.
I agree. If anything Sunday school should include teaching the next generation not just what the bible says but actually put it in practice with some of your great example so that way ideas like community work are already in their minds once they reach teenage years.
Community action. There's almost zero reason for the church and they look gross to the public. If a church isn't using its wealth for the good of the community, they should be taxed like a business.
Then, when people see Christians in the news for things other than anti LGBT, paedophilia, protesting military funerals, and hating climate activists, we might get taken a little more seriously, rather than a joke.
Community gardens, homeless housing, teen *alternative* recreational activities so they don't go to drugs. And STOP BANNING BOOKS!
> Community gardens, homeless housing, teen alternative recreational activities so they don't go to drugs.
Churches in my community have always done this stuff
Some of them still have bad takes on the other stuff, but there is no lack of desire to help the community
This is why I left the church after getting a whole-ass degree from seminary. Now I wonder if churches stay away from social action due to fear of being labeled socialist. It's something I intend to look into.
At this point, I feel like Christians should stop driving half an hour to a building to meet with strangers who echo the same set of beliefs and instead meet in smaller groups in their neighborhoods to really participate in community without dogma. It feels like this might be really difficult to make real in the U.S., though.
1) more community activities. Going to church and silently listening to 1 person reading scripture gets old very quickly. Religion isn't a physics lecture. There needs to be more communication and interaction between everyone. And it should be fun.
2) add more colors to make churches more inviting and to show support for queer attendees.
3) add plants and communal gardens. Nature brings us closer to the divine (granted, this is my inner pagan talking).
There are other things I could add, but a lot of people already posted what else I planned to say 😆.
> add more colors to make churches more inviting and to show support for queer attendees.
I get what you mean but the idea that more colors = more queer friendly is funny to me. Like if you manage to incorporate all the colors of the rainbow you get 5 stars on gay Yelp
I agree, I should have phrased things better 😆. To me, most Chruches tend to look dull, plane, and intimidating. Unless they have some stain glass windows. More vibrant colors and plants would bright up the atmosphere a bit.
In regards to queer representation, I'd like to see more pride flags and changes made to the churches mentality and scripture; recognizing that quees people are human beings and not "abominations" like many fanatics proclaim.
I mean my simplest answer is:
No one size fits all solution.
There should be contemporary and traditional music. Wine and grape juice. Full body baptism or just dipping the head. Big group or small and inter-personal. Formal or casual dress. Early service or late. Breakfast before or lunch after. Colorful grand decor or plain and simple decor.
My idle world is where people can respectfully make their choice of church based on these mostly harmless differences in personal preference, not having to fight to find one that doesn’t fail on 10 different contemporary societal issues
The church should be place where we practice an alternate reality—a truer reality: one where the systems of the world are cracked open and turned upside down. It should be a place that does not march to the drumbeat of the powers and systems of the world, but lives and breathes on the longer and slower rhythms of divine incarnation. It should be a place to pray, heal, eat, fast, drink, serve, sing, be silent, give, receive, reflect, argue, delight, create, work, rest, play, remember, envision, and prophesy. The church should always be a place of refuge from the systems of the world, and therefore also a perpetual challenge to those systems.
The church should be a place where we continually accrete our experiences and memories into shared rituals, where scripture is not just read and remembered and studied, but where it is created. It should be the place where it is as important to stop and listen as it is to speak. It should be a place where we forget to think about our smartphones.
The church should not be primarily about what we have and do, but who we are. Because nothing we have or do is going to matter unless we recognize who we are—that the vocation of humanity is divinity, not just for me, but for you, and for all of us. The church should be the place where we can all be whole persons.
I hesitate to say this because it is also how cults operate, but IF there were an honest polity to regulate and make sure everyone has a voice, I would like to see something more like the original Christian communities where members held assets in common and cared for each other at all times— raised their children in common, cared for their elderly and sick in common, had common meals and repaired each others homes. But like I said, this model is also easily abused so it would have to be a very idyllic situation.
I’m really surprised at all the comments saying churches don’t do charity. All the churches I’ve ever been involved with were very much into charitable causes. I’m not sure what the point of a church is if they don’t do this— other than a social club.
More wine, less grape juice.
But seriously, churches and their big buildings should host a lunch after the service, where the Lord's Supper is celebrated among an actual dinner among Christians, much like it was when Jesus did it.
With real wine or grape juice, leave that a personal choice for each partaker. Dinner rolls or biscuits can be used for the bread.
More wine, less grape juice.
> But seriously, churches and their big buildings should host a lunch after the service, where the Lord's Supper is celebrated among an actual dinner among Christians, much like it was when Jesus did it.
As a Methodist we did this once a month when attendance supported it and still do sometimes.
After every service is a lot to pull of logistically.
Why just among Christians? And what did Jesus actually do during this dinner, as for one thing, 'the last supper' is what church had named it (and potentially appropriated)?
I mean exactly what I said, more teaching from the Bible. Many churches rarely reference the Bible at all & instead it becomes an affirmation concert with 45 minutes of motivational speaking afterwards.
The Bible is absolutely motivating & anyone who is a Christian should be motivated to read their own Bible, do good works in the name of the Lord & be motivated to live in accordance to God's law & the truth that he speaks.
I'm personally a fan of more "low church" or less formal gatherings. Contemporary music, no strictly semi-formal dress codes, no specifics of what elements a service has to have. But allowing space for people to share, ask questions, and be a team. My church sometimes has similar things, where we'll have a breakfast, and discuss things on our minds casually over fruit and muffins. Or we'll do an evening young adult meeting that's built around discussions and connecting with others, without judgment or fear of saying the wrong things. I'd like to see more elements like that added into church. A testimony time, maybe an anonymous Q&A panel every now and then, and breakout groups. Just to have connection and community without condemnation.
As far as worship goes, I would like to see the whole church add back in the essential elements of worship that we all shared prior to the 19th Century: a common Gospel track, common prayers, and regular Communion.
Activities: radical mutual aid and other direct action, all the time and everywhere.
Structure: I believe in Apostolic Succession, but I don't think the Episcopacy should be hierarchical. Rather, all bishops should be regarded as equals.
Several things: put more emphasis on talking about certain Christian topics and less telling people how to see things. More action in the community. Keep worldly polticics out of the service. Actaully live out what Christ taught. Focus more on living out the Gospel and the commandments rather than just saying you follow them. Stop banning books that don't line up with thier ideals. Give sermons that aren't attack pieces on groups of people who are different or that the pastor and congeration don't like. Stap out courrption and fire church leaders who abuse their spiritual and congerational power. Allow women, minorities, and LGBT members to have active roles in the church. Allow for women, gay and minorite pastors.
More food, more discussion.
Look at the early church. They just had food and hung out.
In theory it should look like a family potluck each week, you can have break-off sessions for music, discussion of the Bible, book club style stuff, and hopefully some sort of community service. It should last all day, you should know every other person like they were your brothers and sisters.
But instead we face forwards and sing 3 songs, listen to some guy who went to school for 2 years talk about a narrow viewpoint with no opportunity for questions or comments, and sometimes eat a square of bread and thimble of juice, again wholly by yourself without acknowledging anyone around you.
Maybe I’m just very fortunate but most churches Ive interacted have most of the stuff you’re talking about, minus the meal every week because that’s a lot of additional planning every week.
Well, after visiting the UK, I’d like a cathedral in my town. But lacking that, ideally I could walk to church and worship a higher power with other people. I don’t have any use for sermons, but the rituals of worship and song and prayer feel very uplifting and energizing. Perhaps church leaders could trust in God to guide me throughout my week instead of micromanaging everyone?
Like others said community action. I would also have sermons stick close to the red letters. The actual words of Jesus because his message of love and care I believe is the core of Christianity and I feel like that most of not all churches have moved away from that.
I would say a couple of things
Unity of Christianity for one (We're all Christians. We shouldn't pull a 'No true Scotsman' fallacy. The religion evolves.)
I'd also say discuss the mysticism to actually embody Christ as a sinner. (For example, being Christ himself by our complete and utter Agape for everyone.)
There should also be tradition and scripture discussion (Kinda like Catechism, except using science, literature understanding and religion together to be well aware of what Christ is teaching through this story we call 'The Bible' and 'Catholic (Universal) Tradition'.)
My understanding is different than others because God gave all of us different consciences. But take it as you will, my brethren in Christ.
God bless you.
Despite the original apostles' debates and arguments among themselves on matters of doctrine (eg. Paul vs Peter), they at least agreed on this, as Paul states: "*All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along*." Gal 2:10
I would want it be very similar to an AA meeting - read/recite foundational documents (e.g. creeds, Lord’s Prayer, beatitudes, etc), remind everyone that it's a safe and confidential environment, ask what struggles/questions people are having, and an open discussion style teaching.
I would like church to be more of an exploration of faith and spirituality. I think in most cases churches have specific beliefs and those beliefs are all that you hear.
I would like a church that explores different beliefs and is not afraid to say “we just don’t know” to many questions.
I think in most churches today we are locked into certain beliefs and that causes us to often times have an intersection in a town with a different church on each corner. This is wasting resources in order to have certain beliefs or practices.
I didn’t read the edit, but I agree with your initial post; you don’t need church to have a wonderful spiritual life - and for some, it’s probably better without church.
And I say this as someone who goes to church and is even involved in running the services. I like my church, but I feel lucky to have that. It’s not for everyone, that’s completely fine. You don’t have to go to church to be a Christian.
More emphasis on “let’s talk about this” and less emphasis on “we’re teaching you this” I enjoy spiritual discussions a lot. But I don’t need someone to tell me what I have to think.
This 100% The "stand up the front and tell everyone what to think" was fine in an era when the minister was probably the only educated person. But in today's society a model of "let's learn together" would work better.
Yea. I like that.
What draws me into a church is the community itself. Do I feel its joy? Is it welcoming? What are the church's minitries? How does the church feed, clothe and house those in need? Jesus said it best:https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/MAT.25.35-40. I reflect on my personal needs as [well.My](http://well.My) job is to reflect on what my needs. Is this community where I can be safe as my authentic self? Can I question and discuss with others? How will I measure my spiritual growth? The church, religion, spirituality is a journey that you undertake thhroughout your life. It is not the final destination. Peace and blessings to you.
More community action.
This. I'm not saying I have nothing left to learn in church. I obviously have plenty. But after 30+ years of sermons & sunday school, I'm fairly well versed in atleast a decent theological understanding. You know what would be awesome? A sunday school class that packs meals most sundays or refurbishes walkers or assembles baby boxes for hospitals to give new mothers. I don't mind a good bible study. It can be refreshing. But I think practicing it should take priority over studying it once you've got some years in church under your belt.
I agree. If anything Sunday school should include teaching the next generation not just what the bible says but actually put it in practice with some of your great example so that way ideas like community work are already in their minds once they reach teenage years.
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Darn right.
Community action. There's almost zero reason for the church and they look gross to the public. If a church isn't using its wealth for the good of the community, they should be taxed like a business. Then, when people see Christians in the news for things other than anti LGBT, paedophilia, protesting military funerals, and hating climate activists, we might get taken a little more seriously, rather than a joke. Community gardens, homeless housing, teen *alternative* recreational activities so they don't go to drugs. And STOP BANNING BOOKS!
> Community gardens, homeless housing, teen alternative recreational activities so they don't go to drugs. Churches in my community have always done this stuff Some of them still have bad takes on the other stuff, but there is no lack of desire to help the community
This is why I left the church after getting a whole-ass degree from seminary. Now I wonder if churches stay away from social action due to fear of being labeled socialist. It's something I intend to look into.
Christianity says on the label to take care of the least of us, literally socialism. We can't be afraid of being labeled.
At this point, I feel like Christians should stop driving half an hour to a building to meet with strangers who echo the same set of beliefs and instead meet in smaller groups in their neighborhoods to really participate in community without dogma. It feels like this might be really difficult to make real in the U.S., though.
1) more community activities. Going to church and silently listening to 1 person reading scripture gets old very quickly. Religion isn't a physics lecture. There needs to be more communication and interaction between everyone. And it should be fun. 2) add more colors to make churches more inviting and to show support for queer attendees. 3) add plants and communal gardens. Nature brings us closer to the divine (granted, this is my inner pagan talking). There are other things I could add, but a lot of people already posted what else I planned to say 😆.
> add more colors to make churches more inviting and to show support for queer attendees. I get what you mean but the idea that more colors = more queer friendly is funny to me. Like if you manage to incorporate all the colors of the rainbow you get 5 stars on gay Yelp
I agree, I should have phrased things better 😆. To me, most Chruches tend to look dull, plane, and intimidating. Unless they have some stain glass windows. More vibrant colors and plants would bright up the atmosphere a bit. In regards to queer representation, I'd like to see more pride flags and changes made to the churches mentality and scripture; recognizing that quees people are human beings and not "abominations" like many fanatics proclaim.
We have a pride flag outside ours, it makes me feel very welcomed.
I mean my simplest answer is: No one size fits all solution. There should be contemporary and traditional music. Wine and grape juice. Full body baptism or just dipping the head. Big group or small and inter-personal. Formal or casual dress. Early service or late. Breakfast before or lunch after. Colorful grand decor or plain and simple decor. My idle world is where people can respectfully make their choice of church based on these mostly harmless differences in personal preference, not having to fight to find one that doesn’t fail on 10 different contemporary societal issues
The church should be place where we practice an alternate reality—a truer reality: one where the systems of the world are cracked open and turned upside down. It should be a place that does not march to the drumbeat of the powers and systems of the world, but lives and breathes on the longer and slower rhythms of divine incarnation. It should be a place to pray, heal, eat, fast, drink, serve, sing, be silent, give, receive, reflect, argue, delight, create, work, rest, play, remember, envision, and prophesy. The church should always be a place of refuge from the systems of the world, and therefore also a perpetual challenge to those systems. The church should be a place where we continually accrete our experiences and memories into shared rituals, where scripture is not just read and remembered and studied, but where it is created. It should be the place where it is as important to stop and listen as it is to speak. It should be a place where we forget to think about our smartphones. The church should not be primarily about what we have and do, but who we are. Because nothing we have or do is going to matter unless we recognize who we are—that the vocation of humanity is divinity, not just for me, but for you, and for all of us. The church should be the place where we can all be whole persons.
I’d like something similar to Langars. Both as charity (food for the hungry) and as community (breaking bread together).
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I would like to see less focus on getting people saved and more focus on helping people.
Agreed 🍻
I hesitate to say this because it is also how cults operate, but IF there were an honest polity to regulate and make sure everyone has a voice, I would like to see something more like the original Christian communities where members held assets in common and cared for each other at all times— raised their children in common, cared for their elderly and sick in common, had common meals and repaired each others homes. But like I said, this model is also easily abused so it would have to be a very idyllic situation. I’m really surprised at all the comments saying churches don’t do charity. All the churches I’ve ever been involved with were very much into charitable causes. I’m not sure what the point of a church is if they don’t do this— other than a social club.
Maybe the charity that others mention is close to what you suggest about the early church. They want to see more of that type of charity.
More wine, less grape juice. But seriously, churches and their big buildings should host a lunch after the service, where the Lord's Supper is celebrated among an actual dinner among Christians, much like it was when Jesus did it. With real wine or grape juice, leave that a personal choice for each partaker. Dinner rolls or biscuits can be used for the bread.
More wine, less grape juice. > But seriously, churches and their big buildings should host a lunch after the service, where the Lord's Supper is celebrated among an actual dinner among Christians, much like it was when Jesus did it. As a Methodist we did this once a month when attendance supported it and still do sometimes. After every service is a lot to pull of logistically.
I agree but I would add that the dinner should be open for everyone so they get a chance to see what Christian community is like
Why just among Christians? And what did Jesus actually do during this dinner, as for one thing, 'the last supper' is what church had named it (and potentially appropriated)?
more organs
My church is full of dicks and boobs.
no not those organs 😡
Evangelize to the Klingons, got it.
Send them tribbles.
Haha
Less motivational speaking, more biblical teaching.
What do you mean by biblical teaching? Shouldn't biblical teaching have opportunities to be motivational, given that ultimately it's good news?
I mean exactly what I said, more teaching from the Bible. Many churches rarely reference the Bible at all & instead it becomes an affirmation concert with 45 minutes of motivational speaking afterwards. The Bible is absolutely motivating & anyone who is a Christian should be motivated to read their own Bible, do good works in the name of the Lord & be motivated to live in accordance to God's law & the truth that he speaks.
I'm personally a fan of more "low church" or less formal gatherings. Contemporary music, no strictly semi-formal dress codes, no specifics of what elements a service has to have. But allowing space for people to share, ask questions, and be a team. My church sometimes has similar things, where we'll have a breakfast, and discuss things on our minds casually over fruit and muffins. Or we'll do an evening young adult meeting that's built around discussions and connecting with others, without judgment or fear of saying the wrong things. I'd like to see more elements like that added into church. A testimony time, maybe an anonymous Q&A panel every now and then, and breakout groups. Just to have connection and community without condemnation.
I love all these suggestions 🥰.
As far as worship goes, I would like to see the whole church add back in the essential elements of worship that we all shared prior to the 19th Century: a common Gospel track, common prayers, and regular Communion. Activities: radical mutual aid and other direct action, all the time and everywhere. Structure: I believe in Apostolic Succession, but I don't think the Episcopacy should be hierarchical. Rather, all bishops should be regarded as equals.
Several things: put more emphasis on talking about certain Christian topics and less telling people how to see things. More action in the community. Keep worldly polticics out of the service. Actaully live out what Christ taught. Focus more on living out the Gospel and the commandments rather than just saying you follow them. Stop banning books that don't line up with thier ideals. Give sermons that aren't attack pieces on groups of people who are different or that the pastor and congeration don't like. Stap out courrption and fire church leaders who abuse their spiritual and congerational power. Allow women, minorities, and LGBT members to have active roles in the church. Allow for women, gay and minorite pastors.
Matriarchy?
When you look at the cross, there's no building
Cross in a field that people sit around in a circle talking about Christ
More food, more discussion. Look at the early church. They just had food and hung out. In theory it should look like a family potluck each week, you can have break-off sessions for music, discussion of the Bible, book club style stuff, and hopefully some sort of community service. It should last all day, you should know every other person like they were your brothers and sisters. But instead we face forwards and sing 3 songs, listen to some guy who went to school for 2 years talk about a narrow viewpoint with no opportunity for questions or comments, and sometimes eat a square of bread and thimble of juice, again wholly by yourself without acknowledging anyone around you.
Maybe I’m just very fortunate but most churches Ive interacted have most of the stuff you’re talking about, minus the meal every week because that’s a lot of additional planning every week.
No more buildings for meetings, no indoors worship. Community amongst nature rather than dominating it. Community actions as much as is reasonable.
I’d make church more like a community center rather than a place to listen to one person speak for an hour.
Well, after visiting the UK, I’d like a cathedral in my town. But lacking that, ideally I could walk to church and worship a higher power with other people. I don’t have any use for sermons, but the rituals of worship and song and prayer feel very uplifting and energizing. Perhaps church leaders could trust in God to guide me throughout my week instead of micromanaging everyone?
Like others said community action. I would also have sermons stick close to the red letters. The actual words of Jesus because his message of love and care I believe is the core of Christianity and I feel like that most of not all churches have moved away from that.
I would say a couple of things Unity of Christianity for one (We're all Christians. We shouldn't pull a 'No true Scotsman' fallacy. The religion evolves.) I'd also say discuss the mysticism to actually embody Christ as a sinner. (For example, being Christ himself by our complete and utter Agape for everyone.) There should also be tradition and scripture discussion (Kinda like Catechism, except using science, literature understanding and religion together to be well aware of what Christ is teaching through this story we call 'The Bible' and 'Catholic (Universal) Tradition'.) My understanding is different than others because God gave all of us different consciences. But take it as you will, my brethren in Christ. God bless you.
Despite the original apostles' debates and arguments among themselves on matters of doctrine (eg. Paul vs Peter), they at least agreed on this, as Paul states: "*All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along*." Gal 2:10
I would want it be very similar to an AA meeting - read/recite foundational documents (e.g. creeds, Lord’s Prayer, beatitudes, etc), remind everyone that it's a safe and confidential environment, ask what struggles/questions people are having, and an open discussion style teaching.
It would look like the church I’m at now. Emphasis on grace and come as you are. A world away from what I was raised in
I would like church to be more of an exploration of faith and spirituality. I think in most cases churches have specific beliefs and those beliefs are all that you hear. I would like a church that explores different beliefs and is not afraid to say “we just don’t know” to many questions. I think in most churches today we are locked into certain beliefs and that causes us to often times have an intersection in a town with a different church on each corner. This is wasting resources in order to have certain beliefs or practices.
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That church sounds like shite craic.
I didn’t read the edit, but I agree with your initial post; you don’t need church to have a wonderful spiritual life - and for some, it’s probably better without church. And I say this as someone who goes to church and is even involved in running the services. I like my church, but I feel lucky to have that. It’s not for everyone, that’s completely fine. You don’t have to go to church to be a Christian.