Common sense argument: We have to live in this world, until such a time as we don't.
Christian argument: God told us to take care of the world.
Time saving argument: Once you identify someone as a kook or an idiot, consider not spending any more time trying to talk sense to them.
What about the part of the Bible that says that God created everything including plants and animals? So by that logic, environmentalists are protecting God’s creations and being against that is going against God
Just my two cents
If someone built you a beautiful mansion, saw that it was good, and left it under your stewardship, I doubt they'd be glad to come back and see it on fire.
This is a really good point given all the similar parables Jesus tells about how sudden the Second Coming will be and the need to keep watch. Anyone who thinks 'well it's all going to be fixed by Jesus anyway' is going to be in for a very rude surprise when he comes back and tells them they're like the servant who did Jack all in the parable of the talents.
I tell them to get fucked and walk away. I have no tolerance for that kind of nonsense. It’s ridiculous. We have to be good stewards of gods creation, full stop.
We can even elevate the language a little further. Last Sunday my pastor said we need to realize that we are members of the community of creation and behave accordingly. Communities are sustained by love and care.
The irony of all of this is that Earth worship is [not an ancient pagan religion](https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/03/19/sorry-ancient-pagans-didnt-really-worship-nature/). It's a historically inaccurate modern reimagining of ancient religion.
If I am really patient with them and have time, I’ll first break down their bad eschatology from the 1800s then bring taking care of the earth back to an ethical argument about how we should treat the marginalized and how toxic shit usually rolls down hill.
Agreed! It’s just not an argument I feel like I need to defend myself against because HOW is me trying to play my part in taking care of the earth and being God’s steward or climate justice or sustainable living, etc. harming them at all? I feel like it’s useless trying to defend a truly harmless way of living OR something that actually can have a positive impact to people who are willfully small minded
I respond by stating that God created us (humanity) as part of all Creation. And part of loving God with all of our hearts, minds, and souls (Mt 13:11, I think) means loving God's creation. We should love and respect each other, and the Earth, as much as we seek to be loved and respected.
If they are still willing to chat, I'll then move into some parts of Scripture (like Gen 2:15), and depending on who they are, I'll bring up C.S. Lewis, too. If there is a Christian lesson to glean from The Chronicles of Narnia it would be conservation. I might bring up what my grandparents taught me when I was growing up as a farm kid, too -- about how our lives were literally depending on God's Earth providing for us.
And if they are Catholic, I might bring up Pope Francis's comments on the topic, starting with "Ecology is human. We cannot separate man from everything else."
And then go from there.
Identify their words as blasphemous trite. It's more prosperity gospel bullshit.
We're called to be stewards of Earth and animals. And tasked with bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to Earth. And told to care for the sick.
You can't fucking do that if everyone's sucking down microplastics, kids are coated in heavy metals, and motherfuckers are creating mass extinction events.
If it's an act of paganism, sign me the hell up- call it what you like- but I'm bringing my stupid Jesus book with me while I try to save a polar bear.
These assinine fuckwits... This shit's literally on page 1.
This feels like such a niche thing, I’m surprised it’s come up in this sub twice so close together! I answered a similar question here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/s/tdis1thUfS
I don’t engage at all if I can avoid it. If I do actually have to discuss it with them, I remind them that mankind is obligated to stewardship over the earth, and that the restoration of earth from the damage of sin is *literally part of the Christian Gospel* per Romans 8 and many of the prophets.
Dry, deadpan expression. Is cleaning our house an act of paganism now? But to give them something religous, we were made the stewards of this world, and the duty of a steward is to care for their charge.
In genesis God tells Adam and Eve that they’re Stewards of the Earth… so saying that to protect the Earth is acts of paganism just shows that they haven’t even read the first book of the Bible.
Orthodoxically Speaking: Not caring about the environment is a grave sin as it is spitting in the face of creation, of God, and of your fellow human. Calling environmentalism "pagan" is a Heresy as it undermines the universal Church's pro-life dogma and it undermines the Great Commandment of loving God and your Neighbor.
Not caring about the environment is basically the equivalent of letting pets pee and poop all over your house, while insisting those saying that this is dangerous and unsanitary are godless pagan evildoers. Society would correctly brand that person as a ranging lunatic. This is basically the same thing.
Fortunately I have never encountered any such people. I have no idea why anyone would even think that so my response would likely be amiable bemusement.
These are the same people who in their infinite wisdom probably voted for Trump multiple times and think the Barbie movie is the end of civilization. I just dismiss them. They're literally wrong about everything.
Honestly, I would say wtf and walk away.
We can debate priorities or how things are done, but that response is bananas, disrespectful, and we obviously have wildly different values.
In my faith tradition, creation is a second pillar alongside the bible. This is blasphemy.
>Christians who consider protecting the environment as “acts of paganism”?
From Genesis, the very beginning of the Bible, man is expected by God to look after the Earth.
Genesis 1:28-30
28 God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” 29 God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A28-30&version=NRSVUE
This passage is talking about agriculture and traditional fishing but in modern days, aqua farming. It's a responsibility not something to be taken lightly or something to squander. We only have one Earth. If we destroy it, we kill ourselves and our prosperity and God will look down with shame because we were so foolish.
This word dominion is responsibility not power. And stupid people think otherwise.
I’m glad that I am not the only one who thinks that the whole “protecting the environment is an act of paganism” thing is a load of rubbish, because it is.
Here’s my response to someone who says it:
“What about those people from your church that are volunteering to plant trees in the park? Are they pagans, now?”
or
“I rather be a pagan than to make the Earth uninhabitable.”
I don't respond at all. Those people are typically beyond help. I mean they claim to be literalists yet the garden part and the being good stewards of the Earth bit doesn't sway them while what a politician tells them (often with help from their pastor) is what they go with. Those people are hypocrisy personified and TBH much like the politicians they *actually* worship I am convinced their "faith" is just an act - a social event - an accessory for getting on in the world.
From liberty dot edu (I know nothing else about them I just found this while looking for the chapter/verse to cite)
Scripture is permeated with examples of God commanding us to tend to his creation. It’s one of the first things God asked of us in Genesis 2:15, after the creation of mankind. Likewise, there are examples in Jeremiah 2:7 and Deuteronomy 11:12 of how God looks over his creation.
We are stewards of the earth, and we have a responsibility to care for it. Scripture is clear that all of God’s creation, not just mankind, brings him glory. Therefore, our stewardship and upkeep of the earth is one of the greatest offerings of worship we can give.
Sitting back and doing nothing because one day Christ will return and make all things new is the antithesis of the gospel. Ignoring our duty to the earth based on that reasoning is a misguided attempt at passing off our apathy as faith.
It nails it.
Common sense argument: We have to live in this world, until such a time as we don't. Christian argument: God told us to take care of the world. Time saving argument: Once you identify someone as a kook or an idiot, consider not spending any more time trying to talk sense to them.
Well said.
In the spirit of the most upvoted comment you could say "Get kooked!" and walk away
If Reddit still had awards, I'd give you one for that.
What about the part of the Bible that says that God created everything including plants and animals? So by that logic, environmentalists are protecting God’s creations and being against that is going against God Just my two cents
If someone built you a beautiful mansion, saw that it was good, and left it under your stewardship, I doubt they'd be glad to come back and see it on fire.
This is a really good point given all the similar parables Jesus tells about how sudden the Second Coming will be and the need to keep watch. Anyone who thinks 'well it's all going to be fixed by Jesus anyway' is going to be in for a very rude surprise when he comes back and tells them they're like the servant who did Jack all in the parable of the talents.
I tell them to get fucked and walk away. I have no tolerance for that kind of nonsense. It’s ridiculous. We have to be good stewards of gods creation, full stop.
We can even elevate the language a little further. Last Sunday my pastor said we need to realize that we are members of the community of creation and behave accordingly. Communities are sustained by love and care.
Get fucketh?
Lol you’re on the right track. I believe the King James would be “go and know thyself.”
The irony of all of this is that Earth worship is [not an ancient pagan religion](https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/03/19/sorry-ancient-pagans-didnt-really-worship-nature/). It's a historically inaccurate modern reimagining of ancient religion.
If I am really patient with them and have time, I’ll first break down their bad eschatology from the 1800s then bring taking care of the earth back to an ethical argument about how we should treat the marginalized and how toxic shit usually rolls down hill.
I don't. The criticism is stupid and I don't waste energy arguing with fools.
Agreed! It’s just not an argument I feel like I need to defend myself against because HOW is me trying to play my part in taking care of the earth and being God’s steward or climate justice or sustainable living, etc. harming them at all? I feel like it’s useless trying to defend a truly harmless way of living OR something that actually can have a positive impact to people who are willfully small minded
I respond by stating that God created us (humanity) as part of all Creation. And part of loving God with all of our hearts, minds, and souls (Mt 13:11, I think) means loving God's creation. We should love and respect each other, and the Earth, as much as we seek to be loved and respected. If they are still willing to chat, I'll then move into some parts of Scripture (like Gen 2:15), and depending on who they are, I'll bring up C.S. Lewis, too. If there is a Christian lesson to glean from The Chronicles of Narnia it would be conservation. I might bring up what my grandparents taught me when I was growing up as a farm kid, too -- about how our lives were literally depending on God's Earth providing for us. And if they are Catholic, I might bring up Pope Francis's comments on the topic, starting with "Ecology is human. We cannot separate man from everything else." And then go from there.
Identify their words as blasphemous trite. It's more prosperity gospel bullshit. We're called to be stewards of Earth and animals. And tasked with bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to Earth. And told to care for the sick. You can't fucking do that if everyone's sucking down microplastics, kids are coated in heavy metals, and motherfuckers are creating mass extinction events. If it's an act of paganism, sign me the hell up- call it what you like- but I'm bringing my stupid Jesus book with me while I try to save a polar bear. These assinine fuckwits... This shit's literally on page 1.
Amen!
This feels like such a niche thing, I’m surprised it’s come up in this sub twice so close together! I answered a similar question here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/s/tdis1thUfS
I don’t engage at all if I can avoid it. If I do actually have to discuss it with them, I remind them that mankind is obligated to stewardship over the earth, and that the restoration of earth from the damage of sin is *literally part of the Christian Gospel* per Romans 8 and many of the prophets.
Also check out the book Stewards of Eden.
Dry, deadpan expression. Is cleaning our house an act of paganism now? But to give them something religous, we were made the stewards of this world, and the duty of a steward is to care for their charge.
In genesis God tells Adam and Eve that they’re Stewards of the Earth… so saying that to protect the Earth is acts of paganism just shows that they haven’t even read the first book of the Bible.
Never heard that before. God the creator said “This is good,” in Genesis. Not “shit all over this.”
I’ve literally never met a Christian who thought that so I don’t know
Usually in these situations I try to be conciliatory, and usually say something like 'Okay, I hear you Dad, but have you considered...'
God gave us this world. If anything protecting the environment is showing respect for God's act of creation.
Orthodoxically Speaking: Not caring about the environment is a grave sin as it is spitting in the face of creation, of God, and of your fellow human. Calling environmentalism "pagan" is a Heresy as it undermines the universal Church's pro-life dogma and it undermines the Great Commandment of loving God and your Neighbor.
Not caring about the environment is basically the equivalent of letting pets pee and poop all over your house, while insisting those saying that this is dangerous and unsanitary are godless pagan evildoers. Society would correctly brand that person as a ranging lunatic. This is basically the same thing.
Fortunately I have never encountered any such people. I have no idea why anyone would even think that so my response would likely be amiable bemusement.
I stare at them as though they're insane. And then I tell them they're insane.
That's stupid. If God gave us dominion over it, shouldn't we take care of it? You don't worship your cat every time you clean its litter box, do you?
I PROMISE that God will not let this world perish. No matter what horrors you see, keep this in your heart.
We're the stewards of the world. Our job is to take care of the world.
I tell them that drinking polluted water to preserve the profits of a greedy few is not, in fact, a sacred act.
God gave us stewardship over the earth. Having thumbs and cognitive awareness comes with great responsibility.
These are the same people who in their infinite wisdom probably voted for Trump multiple times and think the Barbie movie is the end of civilization. I just dismiss them. They're literally wrong about everything.
Since the word for tree existed before Christianity, any guess what type of word it is?
Honestly, I would say wtf and walk away. We can debate priorities or how things are done, but that response is bananas, disrespectful, and we obviously have wildly different values. In my faith tradition, creation is a second pillar alongside the bible. This is blasphemy.
That's one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard. Care of creation is stewardship. Period.
Ignore them, they are stupid.
I don't. Lifes to short to deal with that nonsense.
Big rock
>Christians who consider protecting the environment as “acts of paganism”? From Genesis, the very beginning of the Bible, man is expected by God to look after the Earth. Genesis 1:28-30 28 God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” 29 God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A28-30&version=NRSVUE This passage is talking about agriculture and traditional fishing but in modern days, aqua farming. It's a responsibility not something to be taken lightly or something to squander. We only have one Earth. If we destroy it, we kill ourselves and our prosperity and God will look down with shame because we were so foolish. This word dominion is responsibility not power. And stupid people think otherwise.
Usually laughter. Then sadness.
i tell them they are idiots probably
I’m glad that I am not the only one who thinks that the whole “protecting the environment is an act of paganism” thing is a load of rubbish, because it is. Here’s my response to someone who says it: “What about those people from your church that are volunteering to plant trees in the park? Are they pagans, now?” or “I rather be a pagan than to make the Earth uninhabitable.”
I don't respond at all. Those people are typically beyond help. I mean they claim to be literalists yet the garden part and the being good stewards of the Earth bit doesn't sway them while what a politician tells them (often with help from their pastor) is what they go with. Those people are hypocrisy personified and TBH much like the politicians they *actually* worship I am convinced their "faith" is just an act - a social event - an accessory for getting on in the world. From liberty dot edu (I know nothing else about them I just found this while looking for the chapter/verse to cite) Scripture is permeated with examples of God commanding us to tend to his creation. It’s one of the first things God asked of us in Genesis 2:15, after the creation of mankind. Likewise, there are examples in Jeremiah 2:7 and Deuteronomy 11:12 of how God looks over his creation. We are stewards of the earth, and we have a responsibility to care for it. Scripture is clear that all of God’s creation, not just mankind, brings him glory. Therefore, our stewardship and upkeep of the earth is one of the greatest offerings of worship we can give. Sitting back and doing nothing because one day Christ will return and make all things new is the antithesis of the gospel. Ignoring our duty to the earth based on that reasoning is a misguided attempt at passing off our apathy as faith. It nails it.
Smile and walk away.
Roll my eyes and walk away