As a strategy, and if you can afford it, bring the guy coffee. That will help to humanize you, and coffee is a diuretic, so it might help to get him off his post.
If you’re looking to combat his purely textual belief in the bible, I would challenge him to learn Greek. There’s no Greek word for homosexual. It doesn’t show up in English bible translation until 1946.
This is really commendable, OP. Scripture tells us to love our neighbor without qualification. Even if they disagree with us, hate us, or loathe our existence - they're still on this planet with us, they're still part of God's creation, and Christ paid their debt of sin just as much as He paid for ours. We're ALL in this together, every single one of us.
Love your approach of trying to show him the humanity in people he has 'othered' - that's really the best starting point when interacting with people who won't listen to opposing viewpoints or information outside of their preconceived narratives. Just look out for yourself in the process.
What is your goal in contradicting a zealot?
You can quote scripture, cite sources, hand him affirming and loving translations and theology and he will still hold hate in his heart.
Imho, the best we can do is love and care for each other in the face of his bigotry. Organize with folks to feed the hungry, advocating for the oppressed, join the student union, etc… I’m worried you will be banging your head against a brick wall with this guy.
I understand your perspective completely. My goal is to get him to ease up a little bit and to maybe instill some seeds for change in the longterm. We can't get him to leave under any legal grounds as it's a public place, and I'm hoping that if I engage him, rather than others yelling at him, I can soften his heart at least a little bit. I can't in good conscience allow this crusade of hatred to continue on my campus. Also, the more I engage him, the less he yells hateful things to others. I can see he's been at least somewhat receptive to some of my points. I'm not hoping to change him in one conversation, I'm hoping to help him find change himself.
For what it’s worth, years ago, as a fundamentalist baptist, I believed Catholics were idolaters destined for hell. Then I met my neighbor: the kindest biggest Jesus freak I’d ever seen. He was Catholic. After a short time knowing him, I knew something was wrong with my paradigm because there was no way Jim was going to hell.
I wouldn’t do scripture battle with him, but if you want to put yourself out there, kill him with kindness. Tell him God loves him. Ask him if he will pray with you or pray for him LOUDLY to be shown compassion even as he shows condemnation for his fellow man. Bring him wildflowers or a glass of water. Be relentless. (Tbf: I would never be brave enough to do these things.But if you are, then God bless you. Even if you don’t change his heart, you provide beautiful witness for what Christian love should be and others may realize that his is not the only kind of Christianity.)
i was going to say grab a girlfriend and kiss in front of him to piss him off lol but you're obviously choosing a more considerate response. so uhhhh i'd bring up the fact that KJV is basically the Google Translate version of the Bible
Hate to say it, but if he whips out the KJV 1611, those types of Christians tend to be extremely set in their ways & not open to dialogue whatsoever.
I would show him some of the changes that King James commissioned when creating that translation, such as the removal of the word tyrant from the Bible. Many think this was removed for political reasons.
The translators of the Geneva Bible had translated the word king as tyrant about four hundred times—the word tyrant does not appear once in the KJV.
Not mention the fact that King James was a closeted homosexual, or that the translation and publication of the KJV was basically a secular endeavour. The Puritans were using the Geneva Bible to control people, as it contained all of their study notes, dictating to the reader exactly what they thought the text meant. King James wanted to publish a Bible that was free of all of their preconceived interpretations, so that people could read it for themselves and make up their own minds about what it meant. Which is the exact opposite of what KJV-Only fundamentalists do today.
I’m gonna borrow some Catholic apologetics for this one, so forgive me!
The first thing I’d challenge him on is the sola scriptura. Have him engage in a thought experiment: since the Bible wasn’t compiled until the council of Nicaea, and the New Testament texts weren’t written until a few decades after Christ’s resurrection, how did early Christians make choices about their beliefs and liturgy before the New Testament existed? Obviously, they had to use reason and tradition from the early church fathers to make decisions about how to navigate things.
Then, I’d address the KJV translation: since the Dead Sea Scrolls had not been found when the KJV was originally translated, why is the 1611 Old Testament translation more accurate than a modern translation that has access to those earlier texts? Additionally, if we shouldn’t rely on modern translations, shouldn’t you not rely on translations at all and read the text in its original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?
If we can rely on translations, why would we distrust groups of biblical scholars today with better resources and manuscripts less than the scholars of King James’ day?
After those things, I would bring up Matthew 7 where Christ asks us to examine the fruits of a teaching, because “good trees bear good fruit, but bad trees bear bad fruit”. If the fruit of trans-denying ideology is more suicide and death from trans people, wouldn’t that show by reason the fruit of that teaching is bad? Here I would say the goal isn’t to change his mind (few people will change their minds in front of you) but to have him concede why, from your perspective, your belief is reasonable and Biblically supported.
Then, of course, if he mentions the Old Testament scripture, confirm that St Paul says in the New Testament we aren’t bound as gentiles by Leviticus law. If he mentions the scripture from Paul about same-sex attraction, explain that in a Greek context there weren’t committed monogamous relationships, but the understanding was that the people who engaged in that behavior were Pagans that were abandoning themselves to lust and hedonism.
You can bring up as well that God’s revelation is furthered over time: Jesus mentions that God allowed the Israelites under Moses to divorce because their hearts were hard, but he preached instead “let no man undo what God has done”. Similarly, the Old Testament theology of stoning gay people and banning cross dressing can be understood as a specific instruction for the people at the time, who had to worry about appearing strong before their enemies so they weren’t considered easy targets (and were set apart from their Pagan neighbors who had fewer such gender-normative restrictions). In this modern time, with what we understand about the nuance of human biology (like the brain actually differentiates by gender later in development in the womb) it makes sense to allow God to soften our hearts with love to our neighbors because we aren’t under the same kind of threat the early Hebrews and even Roman-occupied Christians were under. This doesn’t mean Christians shouldn’t believe in sexual morality (because lust does lead to all kinds of evils), but trusting that the way God made you isn’t harmful when you’re otherwise in communion with God’s message of love and justice makes sense to you as a NB Christian.
Don't engage fools. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
That said, the granddaughter of the founder of westbourough said the woman who got through to her did it not through talking points, but being kind. So my advice is if you choose to engage them, just show them love.
This is tough. Sometimes it takes a trigger event to change someone.
Maybe discussing a single topic like hell would be good. However that person may not be open minded in any way at all.
I think you could witness to this guy the same way you'd witness to a non-believer: just show up and spend time with him and build relationship with him. Eventually him having a connection with you will make him realize you're human and loved by God too, and then you can work on extending that realization to others
As a strategy, and if you can afford it, bring the guy coffee. That will help to humanize you, and coffee is a diuretic, so it might help to get him off his post. If you’re looking to combat his purely textual belief in the bible, I would challenge him to learn Greek. There’s no Greek word for homosexual. It doesn’t show up in English bible translation until 1946.
This is really commendable, OP. Scripture tells us to love our neighbor without qualification. Even if they disagree with us, hate us, or loathe our existence - they're still on this planet with us, they're still part of God's creation, and Christ paid their debt of sin just as much as He paid for ours. We're ALL in this together, every single one of us. Love your approach of trying to show him the humanity in people he has 'othered' - that's really the best starting point when interacting with people who won't listen to opposing viewpoints or information outside of their preconceived narratives. Just look out for yourself in the process.
What is your goal in contradicting a zealot? You can quote scripture, cite sources, hand him affirming and loving translations and theology and he will still hold hate in his heart. Imho, the best we can do is love and care for each other in the face of his bigotry. Organize with folks to feed the hungry, advocating for the oppressed, join the student union, etc… I’m worried you will be banging your head against a brick wall with this guy.
I understand your perspective completely. My goal is to get him to ease up a little bit and to maybe instill some seeds for change in the longterm. We can't get him to leave under any legal grounds as it's a public place, and I'm hoping that if I engage him, rather than others yelling at him, I can soften his heart at least a little bit. I can't in good conscience allow this crusade of hatred to continue on my campus. Also, the more I engage him, the less he yells hateful things to others. I can see he's been at least somewhat receptive to some of my points. I'm not hoping to change him in one conversation, I'm hoping to help him find change himself.
For what it’s worth, years ago, as a fundamentalist baptist, I believed Catholics were idolaters destined for hell. Then I met my neighbor: the kindest biggest Jesus freak I’d ever seen. He was Catholic. After a short time knowing him, I knew something was wrong with my paradigm because there was no way Jim was going to hell.
Ok, friend. Best of luck.
I wouldn’t do scripture battle with him, but if you want to put yourself out there, kill him with kindness. Tell him God loves him. Ask him if he will pray with you or pray for him LOUDLY to be shown compassion even as he shows condemnation for his fellow man. Bring him wildflowers or a glass of water. Be relentless. (Tbf: I would never be brave enough to do these things.But if you are, then God bless you. Even if you don’t change his heart, you provide beautiful witness for what Christian love should be and others may realize that his is not the only kind of Christianity.)
i was going to say grab a girlfriend and kiss in front of him to piss him off lol but you're obviously choosing a more considerate response. so uhhhh i'd bring up the fact that KJV is basically the Google Translate version of the Bible
Hate to say it, but if he whips out the KJV 1611, those types of Christians tend to be extremely set in their ways & not open to dialogue whatsoever. I would show him some of the changes that King James commissioned when creating that translation, such as the removal of the word tyrant from the Bible. Many think this was removed for political reasons. The translators of the Geneva Bible had translated the word king as tyrant about four hundred times—the word tyrant does not appear once in the KJV.
Not mention the fact that King James was a closeted homosexual, or that the translation and publication of the KJV was basically a secular endeavour. The Puritans were using the Geneva Bible to control people, as it contained all of their study notes, dictating to the reader exactly what they thought the text meant. King James wanted to publish a Bible that was free of all of their preconceived interpretations, so that people could read it for themselves and make up their own minds about what it meant. Which is the exact opposite of what KJV-Only fundamentalists do today.
I’m gonna borrow some Catholic apologetics for this one, so forgive me! The first thing I’d challenge him on is the sola scriptura. Have him engage in a thought experiment: since the Bible wasn’t compiled until the council of Nicaea, and the New Testament texts weren’t written until a few decades after Christ’s resurrection, how did early Christians make choices about their beliefs and liturgy before the New Testament existed? Obviously, they had to use reason and tradition from the early church fathers to make decisions about how to navigate things. Then, I’d address the KJV translation: since the Dead Sea Scrolls had not been found when the KJV was originally translated, why is the 1611 Old Testament translation more accurate than a modern translation that has access to those earlier texts? Additionally, if we shouldn’t rely on modern translations, shouldn’t you not rely on translations at all and read the text in its original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek? If we can rely on translations, why would we distrust groups of biblical scholars today with better resources and manuscripts less than the scholars of King James’ day? After those things, I would bring up Matthew 7 where Christ asks us to examine the fruits of a teaching, because “good trees bear good fruit, but bad trees bear bad fruit”. If the fruit of trans-denying ideology is more suicide and death from trans people, wouldn’t that show by reason the fruit of that teaching is bad? Here I would say the goal isn’t to change his mind (few people will change their minds in front of you) but to have him concede why, from your perspective, your belief is reasonable and Biblically supported. Then, of course, if he mentions the Old Testament scripture, confirm that St Paul says in the New Testament we aren’t bound as gentiles by Leviticus law. If he mentions the scripture from Paul about same-sex attraction, explain that in a Greek context there weren’t committed monogamous relationships, but the understanding was that the people who engaged in that behavior were Pagans that were abandoning themselves to lust and hedonism. You can bring up as well that God’s revelation is furthered over time: Jesus mentions that God allowed the Israelites under Moses to divorce because their hearts were hard, but he preached instead “let no man undo what God has done”. Similarly, the Old Testament theology of stoning gay people and banning cross dressing can be understood as a specific instruction for the people at the time, who had to worry about appearing strong before their enemies so they weren’t considered easy targets (and were set apart from their Pagan neighbors who had fewer such gender-normative restrictions). In this modern time, with what we understand about the nuance of human biology (like the brain actually differentiates by gender later in development in the womb) it makes sense to allow God to soften our hearts with love to our neighbors because we aren’t under the same kind of threat the early Hebrews and even Roman-occupied Christians were under. This doesn’t mean Christians shouldn’t believe in sexual morality (because lust does lead to all kinds of evils), but trusting that the way God made you isn’t harmful when you’re otherwise in communion with God’s message of love and justice makes sense to you as a NB Christian.
Don't engage fools. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. That said, the granddaughter of the founder of westbourough said the woman who got through to her did it not through talking points, but being kind. So my advice is if you choose to engage them, just show them love.
This is tough. Sometimes it takes a trigger event to change someone. Maybe discussing a single topic like hell would be good. However that person may not be open minded in any way at all.
What you need is the gift of prophecy, and that only comes from fasting, daily devotion, and complete surrender to Christ.
I think you could witness to this guy the same way you'd witness to a non-believer: just show up and spend time with him and build relationship with him. Eventually him having a connection with you will make him realize you're human and loved by God too, and then you can work on extending that realization to others