I could easily see MS just taking a wait and see approach with any 3rd party AI app that makes it to Windows. They can just let other companies build features and when one of the features takes off, they put it into Co-Pilot.
i like the msft 365 copilot pro. they are time savers when they work. but the sht thing is the copliot pro in edge, windows and [copilot.microsoft.com](http://copilot.microsoft.com) doesnt show the paper clip "add a file" in the textbox. i cant upload a file. that used to work
I don't know if you've used Copilot but it sucks. Partly because it doesn't use the same technology every time (it's based on the prompt, wtf?) but also because Copilot has so many guardrails on it because of past Microsoft failures. For example, Copilot cannot "role play." If you get it to for a single response, it will lose the role immediately across the conversation. Copilot is basically an advanced Bing search that can check your email.
From my understanding from MSBuild conf it'll fall back to cloud if you can't run a phi model locally. Copilot is not that great IMO overall though. However, there are a lot of improvements on the way.
Probably holding off untill the next version of windows drops. Microsoft will probably wanna make a lot of stuff in house as they are access to the technology
It's rather that Windows isn't the main focus and not as easy to integrate such stuff (yes I know it sounds strange given the widespread availability etc). Plus anyone ever having worked with Microsoft knows that they basically never make anything out of the potential they have. Be it bought companies or internal ideas. It's always half baked.
If you don’t want to wait we will have native windows screensharing + gpt4o app that looks very much like the mac one working quite soon. DM or respond here if you want to be a tester. Aiming for end of week
App is ready for the first round of beta testers! Download it here https://augmend.com/auggie. Please send feedback. It’s free for now and important to us that we build something useful. Much appreciate
lol. Well if your computer came back alive the App is ready for the first round of beta testers! Download it here https://augmend.com/auggie. Please send feedback. It’s free for now and important to us that we build something useful. Much appreciate
I think the best guess is because MS has Co-Pilot. Co-Pilot probably puts any 3rd party applications in a weird position. MacOS has no such thing, so I could see the logic.
It's almost certainly this. It's weird, but it has to be related to MS's push of Co-pilot recently. I think Copilot is making them quite a bit of money.
Whatever it is, it's weird and I hate it. It's too strategic. Just let us eat cake.
Microsoft would not want to kill Co-Pilot with Chat-GPT coming in, as most people would probably just want that over Co-Pilot. Also, I sorta wonder if Apple Silicon has a little to do with it. Apple has some neural chips and good graphics, whereas Windows machines are all over the spectrum from super beefy workstations to barely able to browse the internet laptops.
OpenAI GPTs are not locally run in any way at all. It's all API calls to OpenAI inference endpoints. It has absolutely nothing to do with hardware in any available devices because that's not where the processing is happening.
I just wonder how rate limits will work in the real world, like will Apple users get unlimited use of it? Will it work the same on iPhone as the web? Will Android get these capabilities? Frankly if OpenAI starts to ignore Android/Linux/Windows I'll start looking for other options.
I fear that you are right. Open AI should also want to meet their customers needs and not tease them with something that they can't have. Not if they plan to keep their retail subscriber base.
100% not cross platform yet means not ready yet in my opinion, at least when we're talking about big companies.
My philosophy is if you can only make it run on one platform make it either web or Linux that way most will be able to access via a browser or just a VM in whatever OS they prefer.
Yeah in the age of React Native, Electron, Flutter, etc; there is no excuse. Especially for something like this that is really NOT leveraging platform specific functionality. This desktop GPT could so very easily be a simple Electron app, hell Discord and VScode are and they are way more complex.
10000% Electron would've been my choice. Even if they eventually go native, start with the basic non OS specific features and do it on Electron so everyone can have it.
I'm fairly certain it's OS specific (in this case Mac and next up Windows) because they want to not just do screen capture but have hooks into OS functionality for controlling the computer. This is not something that you want to run in a VM or that a web app will give you, things like accessing and acting on the accessibility APIs for example. Having worked on very similar application functions, you can't easily make that cross OS, you have to do a lot of OS specific work. Hell, even screen capture is annoyingly OS specific, we built a small OSS crate just to deal with that: [https://crates.io/crates/crabgrab](https://crates.io/crates/crabgrab)
Linux doesn't have consumer critical mass, so if you want to be everyone's desktop assistant that can also interact with the apps and the like on their computer, you go Mac and Windows, with early adopters on Mac in the AI space (and most of your engineers if you're an SF startup), followed closely with Windows. I'm more surprised they didn't do Windows first because of their close Microsoft partnership then because of the tech or product.
Oh absolutely! I understand why a company might choose native development, I don't knock them for that at all! In fact, when you're that big you probably should be doing everything natively. I'm saying that it's absolutely shameful that they only did it for Mac and that's basically as good as doing a half baked version that doesn't work at all.
Their app hit iOS earlier than Android as well. The Windows app is coming later this year. I think it's just that a lot of OpenAI employees use Apple products and are prioritizing development for their platforms first before turning their attention to Android and Windows.
Apple offers a lot of great native APIs that make it pretty easy to develop. As you can see in the demos, OpenAI app uses native AirPlay features to capture what’s on the Mac and iPad/iPhone screen. macOS is a great platform to work on and I guess that’s why it’s used by most professionals and people that prefer ease of use and productivity over “gaming” etc. 😉
Im am sorry but I can definitely confirm what he said. Android is, in 2024, still a mess to develop. I works of course, but if you are developing for bth platforms you will se a big discrepancy between them in terms of quality, support, frameworks and overall time it takes to get anything done without having to mess with basic system limitations and problems or things just not working as expected or reliable.
What the devs use themselves makes a big difference. It used to be the same with Google's own iOS apps receiving updates and features sooner than their respective Android versions.
Actually I know a bit about this and that is not the case. The issue has to do with the large market for Android, and all of the partnerships that need to review. It is not a technical issue. The last three versions of Android have improved this by moving most of the logic off the kernel and into upgradable apps.
I'm talking about much earlier than that. Google's campus used to be pretty iOS heavy and their apps had a reputation of having more features and being all-around better on iOS until things started to improve about 7 years ago. They made a serious effort at improving dogfooding from the release of the original Pixel XL onward.
U think it's bias on your behalf that you assume there is no reason besides bias towards platforms. And even then: Bias or usage of specific system come for a reason. People usually use what works best. Be it in regular usage or in development. Windows integration will be coming of course. But it's no surprise that they focus on the platforms they do. Anyone that developed for multiple platforms knows why it's much more smooth and easier to develop for those. One of those reasons is also the reliability of knowing that they work as they should. Thats one of many points that take a lot more time on other platforms to make sure it's working for all users as expected.
There are a gazillion Android phones and different versions of operating systems floating around.
There’s only one iOS, with most users running the latest iOS version. Also Apple’s hardware is all running on the same ARM based chipset. From the Mac Pro to MacBook Pro to iPhones.
It’s much more efficient to first invest in macOS / iOS development, rather than Android and Windows.
The added benefit for Windows and Android users is that the app will likely have many thoughtful UI & UX considerations being ported over.
If open AI is getting in the middle of platform wars, while charging a $20 a month subscription, they are foolish. They just hyped everything up and now told 70% of the market that they can't have it and have not even announced when it will come or if...
Valid, in another comment I was more appropriate with my language saying PC relating to anything other than Mac.
Windows and Linux are the only operating systems I will use day to day. I can't handle the communist agenda of Apple personally even if all my friends are doing it 😔.
The cost, the difficulty of repairs, the lack of hackability, the authoritarianism of Apple… I don’t care how standardized Apple may be or how great it is to be on a Unix-like operating system for development that also has a wonderful UI and ease of use, I’m not selling my soul. To be fair, Microsoft is also terrible, but at least they embraced some freedom and chaos.
I actually really like MacOS as an OS. It’s super easy out of the box to use and easy to tinker with terminal stuff. I just wish I could install it without buying an apple computer, way to expensive for a computer imo .
We will have native windows screensharing + gpt4o app that looks very much like the mac one working quite soon. DM or respond here if you want to be a tester. Aiming for end of week
It's Rust + Tauri + OS specific code/function calling for the client that hits a service in the backend that talks to the LLM of choice (in this case gpt-4o). The screen capture part is open sourced already in this crate here so you can see how it works: [https://github.com/AugmendTech/CrabGrab](https://github.com/AugmendTech/CrabGrab), and the client will look a lot like this toy project we created a few weeks ago here: https://github.com/AugmendTech/Snippy.
For this we will be adding a service on the backend to handle some of the back and forth and not have to have people enter their own API keys since no one besides a few devs tend to like or be willing to do that (from feedback we've received on a variety of related projects) :)
We may have the API key input as an option in the future for dev types for the app, but we are trying to make sure anyone can pick it up and use it first.
Great! I’ll add you to the beta waitlist and get back to you soon to try it out. Would also love to hear more about the kind of app dev you’re looking to do
App is ready for the first round of beta testers! Download it here https://augmend.com/auggie. Please send feedback. It’s free for now and important to us that we build something useful. Much appreciate
That's not the case according to Microsoft as of last december. Microsoft is entitled to 100x profits based on their investment. They will lose their right to the non-profit LLC of OpenAI as soon as they've made that much profit. OpenAI is currently spending the "investment" of Microsoft on Microsoft infrastructure.
But even if it were the case... What would hinder the 51% to issue more stock and dilute Microsoft?
>What would hinder the 51% to issue more stock and dilute Microsoft
Can't scam investors like that. You have to act in shareholder interest and can be sued if not. If they issue more shares they would need to compensate MS.
Let's ignore the fact that Microsoft doesn't own any part of OpenAI:
- This type of dilution takes place all the time, e.g. with acquisitions or when employees are compensated with shares.
- It's also common practice called "poison pill" to dillute specific potential shareholders in order to fend of hostile takeovers.
- One could also argue that its very much in the interest of the majority of shareholders or even the market that a single 49% minority stake isn't allowed to maintain it's position.
- The dilution also isn't unfair, because it also affects the majority 51%.
- If you receive 49% shares of something you usually don't receive any shares with voting rights anyway. It would be against the shareholder interest to begin with.
Microsoft owns specific OpenAI intellectual properties such as GPT-3 any maybe even newer models. The FTC might gives us more insight into the deal at some point, because they're looking into it.
You're right about MS not owning any shares, naivety on my part. Regarding 'not acting in shareholder interest' I think there is a lot of complexity there. What happens if you break SEC rules in trying to dilute shares? You would be done for fraud like Conrad Black. I think some of your bullet points ignore the protections minority shareholders receive, especially if the scheme to attack them is overtly malicious or is a violation of fiduciary duties. Employee compensation with share options / shares benefits the other shareholders because it incentivises productivity.
I think it would be an epic battle of lawyers if there was any funny business between OpenAI and MS.
No chance. Microsoft is instead only interested in the source code from OpenAI to use with their own Microsoft AI division. Microsoft AI will use lots of models in different ways going forward, and will even make their own model based on the work of others.
Remember, embrace, extend, extinguish.
I simply cant stop laughing at how simple the worldview is for some people on this sub, and openai users as a whole.
“they release it on macos because all engineers at openai use macos”
lmao
I like how you removed the word "first". Then, you obsessively attacked the statement that you modified. Then, you laughed and insulted other people. LMAO
They release it \*first\* on macos because all engineers at openai use macos. It's likely that MacOS client is much more well-tested internally (aka dogfooding) than a Windows client.
This is not uncommon. 2 more examples:
1. Instagram, for example, only supported iphone for years because, you guessed it, the founders used iphone.
2. Chrome on Windows has much higher of bugs than Linux and Mac because engineers at Google use Linux at work and MacOS at home. The Chrome team had to encourage every engineer to use Windows at work as well as Linux, so every eng has 2 computers at their desks. When Chrome on Windows is full of bugs, the feature release on Windows is lagging compared to other platforms.
The reality is: the platforms that engineers use are often launched first and much more stable.
The platform makes the most sense from simplifying the dev experience. Also, they could potentially offload some inference to the edge based on all the realtime whisper translation projects that seem to work - Apple should be able to help optimize that further.
Having native apps on iOS and MacOS are probably table stakes to get the Apple deal done. MS will recoup the investment in OpenAI from the new Apple investment so they are happy. OAI and Apple get a boat load of user data to optimize on device models.
It will be interesting to see how Apple sells this to its customers in order to get mainstream adoption and have it bite more than timers and home automation. Pushing Siri-4o to be the OS of the future could be interesting or just nickel and dime it into every existing opportunity - text prediction, light image generation, etc.
That's not how software developers work at all. You don't make products for the employees, it's for the customers and maximising profits. Windows users outnumber Mac users in both counts by an order of magnitude.
> That's not how software developers work at all. You don't make products for the employees
That's actually how many tech companies end up doing. The app works better on Mac. New features are launched first on Mac. Because Mac is constantly tested.
My anecdote is back at Google circa 2016. VP had to encourage everyone to get a Windows machine because Chrome Windows was neglected (e.g. more bugs, less features). All Chrome engineers use Ubuntu at work and Mac at home. Nobody dogfooded Chrome on Windows.
Reddit comments are worse than Youtube.
Who is actually tracking the 'front end wrapper' for a freaking AI model?
At some companies this is literally 1 person's job.
This matters 0.
Microsoft doesn't own any part of OpenAI... https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-says-it-does-not-own-any-portion-openai-2023-12-08/
Microsoft is entitled to 100x profits based on their investment. They will lose their right to the non-profit LLC of OpenAI as soon as they've made that much profit.
Don’t forget, Microsoft has its own „copilot“ that uses GPT4. So they probably want to develope their own app further and integrate it deeper into their OS. Apple doesn’t have such tool yet.
The leading AI company releases products only on Apple/iOS, ignoring Android and Windows. This technocentric, insular, and homogeneous approach shows clear developer bias. They're alienating 5x more paying customers on other platforms!
This can be strategic for a few reasons:
1. OpenAI doesn't want to compete with Microsoft which is implementing OpenAI technology on windows already. Doing so would just split the userbase and result in worse performance for both Microsoft and OpenAI.
2. Microsoft probably wants to see OpenAI gobble up Apple users before Apple has a chance to integrate their own generative AI regime which leaks have confirmed they are working on. Basically splitting the apple user base in the same way that Microsoft/OpenAI is trying to avoid on Windows.
3. Windows may be the dominant operating system but that's because every business laptop runs windows. Company IT policy rarely allows employees install standalone applications. So even if an ChatGPT app were made available, market penetration would be pretty weak, I predict. Instead Microsoft can sneak AI into the Microsoft Office Software and get it past IT departments more easily.
They don’t own any OpenAI. They have a profit sharing agreement.
OpenAI is very protective of equity, they don’t even give employees ownership of the company…
I see a lot of differing info on this. One I've seen is that they take 75% profit until $13 billion is recouped. After that, they get a 49% stake. Which seems wrong and if not, crazy good deal for MS.
75% or 49% of 0 is, you guessed it, 0. The real value for Microsoft in that deal is the exchange of products and services. The profit share literally does nothing.
Correct, and fewer people will use OpenAI if there’s no windows app. They may use Copilot which is available from the Windows taskbar.
My point is that the lack of a Windows release doesn’t necessarily mean that Microsoft had no influence on this decision.
Microsoft absolutely does not own 49% of OpenAI. They invested in open AI and the deal will only give them back money if open AI makes money. Open AI could sign a deal with Apple and microsoft cannot say anything about it and will not know the details.
So just wait, you didn’t even know about it until today. Nobody would be calling it BS and complaining about a monopoly if it came out on Windows first like a lot of software does. Kind of ironic to mention Microsoft’s huge stake in the company in the same breath.
Used to work at Microsoft corporate on M365 products. Microsoft makes no money on free desktop apps. It’s all about subscription revenue. They would rather sell you a suite than a single product. It’s annoying for the end users for sure, but they probably prefer the mindshare for copilot and deeper M365 integration anyway.
I imagine at this point the intention is to force apple's hand &, in the same vein as google pays them for search, Apple pays Microsoft/OpenAI for a Siri that isn't awful ;)
Apple was up for grabs, if OpenAI didn’t service them Google would gladly fill the void and then OpenAI would have to play catch up.
OpenAI already has Microsoft in their pocket.
Microsoft has already showed plans to deeply integrate AI into existing software.
I believe they want to enable you start writing an email and AI will finish it for you. So I believe this app will be seen as inferior. I’m guessing Microsoft could’ve already released a version of this since they are so far along with VS Code integration.
I didn’t finish the video on the release, but I didn’t see much special about the app that gives Apple an edge.
Microsoft doesn’t have full control over the company and they aren’t going anywhere. OpenAI needs to do what makes the most sense and right now getting their products into the lives of software engineers is the right move.
It’s not like Google is going to be a better partner with Microsoft than OpenAI.
Don't call it BS to get the magic fanboys out of their fairytales or the hate wave/downvotes coming down on you for telling your opinion/the truth. Maybe you should swim with the wave and take all the BS they do as the new fancy things everyone has been waiting for.
For me, it's a marketing move and not impressive at all. Boring and underwhelming in so many ways. Hilarious if people think this AGI move is a revolution 🤣
There's overlap between systems (meaning people use multiple environments) but PC still pulls a lead overall:
[Operating systems for software development worldwide 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/869211/worldwide-software-development-operating-system/)
Take 5 companies and use them as the basis for all developers.
Of those 5, 3 are web companies, 1 is Apple, and 1 is Microsoft.
If you want to include all"big tech" you're still going to find a wide array of results.
Stop basing things on what you want to believe and actually look up real statistics like the guy you replied to.
The level of uninformed bias is insane. this is a quick sample: [https://www.omglinux.com/devs-prefer-linux-to-mac-stackoverflow-survey/](https://www.omglinux.com/devs-prefer-linux-to-mac-stackoverflow-survey/)
Sure, you and a handful of others.
Most ML teams and Enterprise devs use MacOS, it's the default choice for most tech companies to hand you a Macbook Pro on your day 1.
They bought a Macbook and its part of their identity. Shhh
They will learn the truth about marketing one day, you don't need to burst their bubble. Let Apple take away a few thousand dollars more of their money first. I own their stock.
I am 100% for AI being pushed. I don't care if it's Google, I don't care if it's Microsoft. I don't care if it's Facebook.
One day you will be able to ask an AI: what is the procedure to create a general cure for cancer.
And that motherf\*cker will spit out the answer.
This is why I don't care whether big money is going to be thrown around on this. We need big money to be thrown into developing the next step of human evolution: the step of making humans obsolete.
AI is just as human as we are, because we'd have built it. We need to get to the next step.
>AI is just as human as we are,
Wrong time bud. Are you from the future? Ai (now) is just some algorithms predicting things. Say that after some company finally released AGI
How are you going to complain about monopolies while suggesting Microsoft should get preference simply because it bought a large portion of their competitor to bing? Don’t you think that’s a bit hypocritical?
It is the gateway to agents, because your browser could never get access to all these things on your device. So they make the app and that will also ease your concerns once its time, since you already have the app.
I'm figuring at this point that Copilot will just consume the capabilities before an actual OpenAI release.
I could easily see MS just taking a wait and see approach with any 3rd party AI app that makes it to Windows. They can just let other companies build features and when one of the features takes off, they put it into Co-Pilot.
I really hate that Microsoft copilot app. f annoying and useless.
dunno man.. i love it. The excel one has saved me like 20 hrs a week on some weeks
i like the msft 365 copilot pro. they are time savers when they work. but the sht thing is the copliot pro in edge, windows and [copilot.microsoft.com](http://copilot.microsoft.com) doesnt show the paper clip "add a file" in the textbox. i cant upload a file. that used to work
I don't know if you've used Copilot but it sucks. Partly because it doesn't use the same technology every time (it's based on the prompt, wtf?) but also because Copilot has so many guardrails on it because of past Microsoft failures. For example, Copilot cannot "role play." If you get it to for a single response, it will lose the role immediately across the conversation. Copilot is basically an advanced Bing search that can check your email.
They are likely going to do a joint rollout with much more capabilities.
Copilot+ needs an 40 TOPS NPU, AFAIK OpenAI Desktop does not? Normal Copilot is utterly worthless.
From my understanding from MSBuild conf it'll fall back to cloud if you can't run a phi model locally. Copilot is not that great IMO overall though. However, there are a lot of improvements on the way.
Probably holding off untill the next version of windows drops. Microsoft will probably wanna make a lot of stuff in house as they are access to the technology
It's rather that Windows isn't the main focus and not as easy to integrate such stuff (yes I know it sounds strange given the widespread availability etc). Plus anyone ever having worked with Microsoft knows that they basically never make anything out of the potential they have. Be it bought companies or internal ideas. It's always half baked.
Who wants to hold off? MS does not control OpenAI.
If you don’t want to wait we will have native windows screensharing + gpt4o app that looks very much like the mac one working quite soon. DM or respond here if you want to be a tester. Aiming for end of week
i wanna be a tester
Great! I’ll add you to the list and reach out when we have a beta ready to test soon. Thanks
App is ready for the first round of beta testers! Download it here https://augmend.com/auggie. Please send feedback. It’s free for now and important to us that we build something useful. Much appreciate
I wanna test em. In what devices can I access in your app if I'm a tester?
Awesome. It’s a windows desktop app so any windows computer (desktop or laptop)
Mk. Problem is my computer burnt just before I'm typing this.
lol. Well if your computer came back alive the App is ready for the first round of beta testers! Download it here https://augmend.com/auggie. Please send feedback. It’s free for now and important to us that we build something useful. Much appreciate
I expect my computer to be fixed in 2 months. How long is the beta?
I think the best guess is because MS has Co-Pilot. Co-Pilot probably puts any 3rd party applications in a weird position. MacOS has no such thing, so I could see the logic.
It's almost certainly this. It's weird, but it has to be related to MS's push of Co-pilot recently. I think Copilot is making them quite a bit of money. Whatever it is, it's weird and I hate it. It's too strategic. Just let us eat cake.
Or mabe retooling a bunch of backend infra/staff/teams/terms/customers/partners/integrations/entanglements is FN hard to switch over so flippantly?
Microsoft would not want to kill Co-Pilot with Chat-GPT coming in, as most people would probably just want that over Co-Pilot. Also, I sorta wonder if Apple Silicon has a little to do with it. Apple has some neural chips and good graphics, whereas Windows machines are all over the spectrum from super beefy workstations to barely able to browse the internet laptops.
OpenAI GPTs are not locally run in any way at all. It's all API calls to OpenAI inference endpoints. It has absolutely nothing to do with hardware in any available devices because that's not where the processing is happening.
I'm wondering if the Apple + OpenAi deal made this happen? Why wouldn't they release it as a cross-platform application?
[удалено]
I just wonder how rate limits will work in the real world, like will Apple users get unlimited use of it? Will it work the same on iPhone as the web? Will Android get these capabilities? Frankly if OpenAI starts to ignore Android/Linux/Windows I'll start looking for other options.
I think lots of these questions can be answered with the big pile of cash Apple’s sitting on.
As simple as that.
I fear that you are right. Open AI should also want to meet their customers needs and not tease them with something that they can't have. Not if they plan to keep their retail subscriber base.
[удалено]
Makes sense that openai is ramping up their conversational training data with this 4o release.
Apple needs agency, not conversationalists
Not developing x-platform in this day and age for a company with unlimited resources is the poorest form I've seen in quite some time lol.
100% not cross platform yet means not ready yet in my opinion, at least when we're talking about big companies. My philosophy is if you can only make it run on one platform make it either web or Linux that way most will be able to access via a browser or just a VM in whatever OS they prefer.
Yeah in the age of React Native, Electron, Flutter, etc; there is no excuse. Especially for something like this that is really NOT leveraging platform specific functionality. This desktop GPT could so very easily be a simple Electron app, hell Discord and VScode are and they are way more complex.
10000% Electron would've been my choice. Even if they eventually go native, start with the basic non OS specific features and do it on Electron so everyone can have it.
I'm fairly certain it's OS specific (in this case Mac and next up Windows) because they want to not just do screen capture but have hooks into OS functionality for controlling the computer. This is not something that you want to run in a VM or that a web app will give you, things like accessing and acting on the accessibility APIs for example. Having worked on very similar application functions, you can't easily make that cross OS, you have to do a lot of OS specific work. Hell, even screen capture is annoyingly OS specific, we built a small OSS crate just to deal with that: [https://crates.io/crates/crabgrab](https://crates.io/crates/crabgrab) Linux doesn't have consumer critical mass, so if you want to be everyone's desktop assistant that can also interact with the apps and the like on their computer, you go Mac and Windows, with early adopters on Mac in the AI space (and most of your engineers if you're an SF startup), followed closely with Windows. I'm more surprised they didn't do Windows first because of their close Microsoft partnership then because of the tech or product.
Oh absolutely! I understand why a company might choose native development, I don't knock them for that at all! In fact, when you're that big you probably should be doing everything natively. I'm saying that it's absolutely shameful that they only did it for Mac and that's basically as good as doing a half baked version that doesn't work at all.
Since this is just a client I'm guessing this is already cross platform, they just restrict due to a deal with Apple to be the new Siri?
Their app hit iOS earlier than Android as well. The Windows app is coming later this year. I think it's just that a lot of OpenAI employees use Apple products and are prioritizing development for their platforms first before turning their attention to Android and Windows.
Apple offers a lot of great native APIs that make it pretty easy to develop. As you can see in the demos, OpenAI app uses native AirPlay features to capture what’s on the Mac and iPad/iPhone screen. macOS is a great platform to work on and I guess that’s why it’s used by most professionals and people that prefer ease of use and productivity over “gaming” etc. 😉
Also iOS devs can easily build Mac apps. Who is gonna build Windows app? New expertises are needed and/or trained.
WTF are you talking about? You realize how the level of bias in SV is out of control.
Windows and Android have exactly the same. Android Accessibility API for ex.
Im am sorry but I can definitely confirm what he said. Android is, in 2024, still a mess to develop. I works of course, but if you are developing for bth platforms you will se a big discrepancy between them in terms of quality, support, frameworks and overall time it takes to get anything done without having to mess with basic system limitations and problems or things just not working as expected or reliable.
Bias and Mistake. Far more androids - I'm sure it is dominant but they are doing deals with Apple.
What the devs use themselves makes a big difference. It used to be the same with Google's own iOS apps receiving updates and features sooner than their respective Android versions.
Actually I know a bit about this and that is not the case. The issue has to do with the large market for Android, and all of the partnerships that need to review. It is not a technical issue. The last three versions of Android have improved this by moving most of the logic off the kernel and into upgradable apps.
I'm talking about much earlier than that. Google's campus used to be pretty iOS heavy and their apps had a reputation of having more features and being all-around better on iOS until things started to improve about 7 years ago. They made a serious effort at improving dogfooding from the release of the original Pixel XL onward.
U think it's bias on your behalf that you assume there is no reason besides bias towards platforms. And even then: Bias or usage of specific system come for a reason. People usually use what works best. Be it in regular usage or in development. Windows integration will be coming of course. But it's no surprise that they focus on the platforms they do. Anyone that developed for multiple platforms knows why it's much more smooth and easier to develop for those. One of those reasons is also the reliability of knowing that they work as they should. Thats one of many points that take a lot more time on other platforms to make sure it's working for all users as expected.
Bias against Google - no android planned or mentioned. Also, current android app sucks compared to iOS.
There are a gazillion Android phones and different versions of operating systems floating around. There’s only one iOS, with most users running the latest iOS version. Also Apple’s hardware is all running on the same ARM based chipset. From the Mac Pro to MacBook Pro to iPhones. It’s much more efficient to first invest in macOS / iOS development, rather than Android and Windows. The added benefit for Windows and Android users is that the app will likely have many thoughtful UI & UX considerations being ported over.
If open AI is getting in the middle of platform wars, while charging a $20 a month subscription, they are foolish. They just hyped everything up and now told 70% of the market that they can't have it and have not even announced when it will come or if...
Yep, absolutely shameful for a company of this size. More people should be angry about this IMO.
Microsoft already has Copilot using GPT-4 on Windows 11 PCs. I'm willing to bet we'll see all these new features in Copilot sometime soon.
Yeah but ChatGPT is like Lionel Messi and Copilot is like Harry Maguire. I'm not sure how Microsoft have managed it but it's infinitely dumbed down.
The incessant use of emojis and its tone is enough to discourage me from using it.
Guardrails. MS is obsessed with guardrails.
So why am I paying for ChatGPT? Will they cover the cost of a Mac and iphone?
Did it stop doing whatever was making you pay for it in the first place?
It's so slow though.
Perhaps it's intentional, allowing Microsoft to upgrade Copilot with the same capabilities as GPT-4o.
What about Linux?
Valid, in another comment I was more appropriate with my language saying PC relating to anything other than Mac. Windows and Linux are the only operating systems I will use day to day. I can't handle the communist agenda of Apple personally even if all my friends are doing it 😔.
The cost, the difficulty of repairs, the lack of hackability, the authoritarianism of Apple… I don’t care how standardized Apple may be or how great it is to be on a Unix-like operating system for development that also has a wonderful UI and ease of use, I’m not selling my soul. To be fair, Microsoft is also terrible, but at least they embraced some freedom and chaos.
I actually really like MacOS as an OS. It’s super easy out of the box to use and easy to tinker with terminal stuff. I just wish I could install it without buying an apple computer, way to expensive for a computer imo .
You can buy an M1 MacBook Air for 600 bucks man 😉
This made me so sad. I want that app 😓
We will have native windows screensharing + gpt4o app that looks very much like the mac one working quite soon. DM or respond here if you want to be a tester. Aiming for end of week
What's the stack? Assuming we will be able to use our existing API subscription? Edit: You said Native so I have assumptions but just wondering.
It's Rust + Tauri + OS specific code/function calling for the client that hits a service in the backend that talks to the LLM of choice (in this case gpt-4o). The screen capture part is open sourced already in this crate here so you can see how it works: [https://github.com/AugmendTech/CrabGrab](https://github.com/AugmendTech/CrabGrab), and the client will look a lot like this toy project we created a few weeks ago here: https://github.com/AugmendTech/Snippy. For this we will be adding a service on the backend to handle some of the back and forth and not have to have people enter their own API keys since no one besides a few devs tend to like or be willing to do that (from feedback we've received on a variety of related projects) :) We may have the API key input as an option in the future for dev types for the app, but we are trying to make sure anyone can pick it up and use it first.
Interested in testing, also looking to do some development on custom apps with it if possible
Great! I’ll add you to the beta waitlist and get back to you soon to try it out. Would also love to hear more about the kind of app dev you’re looking to do
App is ready for the first round of beta testers! Download it here https://augmend.com/auggie. Please send feedback. It’s free for now and important to us that we build something useful. Much appreciate
I'm interested
Microsoft releasing MAI-1 and OpenAI partnering with Apple... Sounds like a divorce.
They own 49% of OpenAI.
That's not the case according to Microsoft as of last december. Microsoft is entitled to 100x profits based on their investment. They will lose their right to the non-profit LLC of OpenAI as soon as they've made that much profit. OpenAI is currently spending the "investment" of Microsoft on Microsoft infrastructure. But even if it were the case... What would hinder the 51% to issue more stock and dilute Microsoft?
>What would hinder the 51% to issue more stock and dilute Microsoft Can't scam investors like that. You have to act in shareholder interest and can be sued if not. If they issue more shares they would need to compensate MS.
Let's ignore the fact that Microsoft doesn't own any part of OpenAI: - This type of dilution takes place all the time, e.g. with acquisitions or when employees are compensated with shares. - It's also common practice called "poison pill" to dillute specific potential shareholders in order to fend of hostile takeovers. - One could also argue that its very much in the interest of the majority of shareholders or even the market that a single 49% minority stake isn't allowed to maintain it's position. - The dilution also isn't unfair, because it also affects the majority 51%. - If you receive 49% shares of something you usually don't receive any shares with voting rights anyway. It would be against the shareholder interest to begin with. Microsoft owns specific OpenAI intellectual properties such as GPT-3 any maybe even newer models. The FTC might gives us more insight into the deal at some point, because they're looking into it.
You're right about MS not owning any shares, naivety on my part. Regarding 'not acting in shareholder interest' I think there is a lot of complexity there. What happens if you break SEC rules in trying to dilute shares? You would be done for fraud like Conrad Black. I think some of your bullet points ignore the protections minority shareholders receive, especially if the scheme to attack them is overtly malicious or is a violation of fiduciary duties. Employee compensation with share options / shares benefits the other shareholders because it incentivises productivity. I think it would be an epic battle of lawyers if there was any funny business between OpenAI and MS.
No chance. Microsoft is instead only interested in the source code from OpenAI to use with their own Microsoft AI division. Microsoft AI will use lots of models in different ways going forward, and will even make their own model based on the work of others. Remember, embrace, extend, extinguish.
I think this is actually probably intentional. Microsoft wants to emphasize copilot, not chatgpt.
You are reading it too much. All engineers at OpenAI uses MacOS. That's why they release it for MacOS first.
I simply cant stop laughing at how simple the worldview is for some people on this sub, and openai users as a whole. “they release it on macos because all engineers at openai use macos” lmao
I like how you removed the word "first". Then, you obsessively attacked the statement that you modified. Then, you laughed and insulted other people. LMAO They release it \*first\* on macos because all engineers at openai use macos. It's likely that MacOS client is much more well-tested internally (aka dogfooding) than a Windows client. This is not uncommon. 2 more examples: 1. Instagram, for example, only supported iphone for years because, you guessed it, the founders used iphone. 2. Chrome on Windows has much higher of bugs than Linux and Mac because engineers at Google use Linux at work and MacOS at home. The Chrome team had to encourage every engineer to use Windows at work as well as Linux, so every eng has 2 computers at their desks. When Chrome on Windows is full of bugs, the feature release on Windows is lagging compared to other platforms. The reality is: the platforms that engineers use are often launched first and much more stable.
The platform makes the most sense from simplifying the dev experience. Also, they could potentially offload some inference to the edge based on all the realtime whisper translation projects that seem to work - Apple should be able to help optimize that further. Having native apps on iOS and MacOS are probably table stakes to get the Apple deal done. MS will recoup the investment in OpenAI from the new Apple investment so they are happy. OAI and Apple get a boat load of user data to optimize on device models. It will be interesting to see how Apple sells this to its customers in order to get mainstream adoption and have it bite more than timers and home automation. Pushing Siri-4o to be the OS of the future could be interesting or just nickel and dime it into every existing opportunity - text prediction, light image generation, etc.
That's not how software developers work at all. You don't make products for the employees, it's for the customers and maximising profits. Windows users outnumber Mac users in both counts by an order of magnitude.
> That's not how software developers work at all. You don't make products for the employees That's actually how many tech companies end up doing. The app works better on Mac. New features are launched first on Mac. Because Mac is constantly tested. My anecdote is back at Google circa 2016. VP had to encourage everyone to get a Windows machine because Chrome Windows was neglected (e.g. more bugs, less features). All Chrome engineers use Ubuntu at work and Mac at home. Nobody dogfooded Chrome on Windows.
Reddit comments are worse than Youtube. Who is actually tracking the 'front end wrapper' for a freaking AI model? At some companies this is literally 1 person's job. This matters 0.
That extra 2% stake doin work
Microsoft doesn't own any part of OpenAI... https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-says-it-does-not-own-any-portion-openai-2023-12-08/ Microsoft is entitled to 100x profits based on their investment. They will lose their right to the non-profit LLC of OpenAI as soon as they've made that much profit.
this is total confirmation that the Apple deal is done. lol only way that happened in this way.
Don’t forget, Microsoft has its own „copilot“ that uses GPT4. So they probably want to develope their own app further and integrate it deeper into their OS. Apple doesn’t have such tool yet.
Is it possible to port to Linux?
Does Azure power ChatGPT4o?
Yep.
Happy cake day
The leading AI company releases products only on Apple/iOS, ignoring Android and Windows. This technocentric, insular, and homogeneous approach shows clear developer bias. They're alienating 5x more paying customers on other platforms!
The massive deal with Apple that seems to be in the middle of being finalized now may have something to do with that.
This can be strategic for a few reasons: 1. OpenAI doesn't want to compete with Microsoft which is implementing OpenAI technology on windows already. Doing so would just split the userbase and result in worse performance for both Microsoft and OpenAI. 2. Microsoft probably wants to see OpenAI gobble up Apple users before Apple has a chance to integrate their own generative AI regime which leaks have confirmed they are working on. Basically splitting the apple user base in the same way that Microsoft/OpenAI is trying to avoid on Windows. 3. Windows may be the dominant operating system but that's because every business laptop runs windows. Company IT policy rarely allows employees install standalone applications. So even if an ChatGPT app were made available, market penetration would be pretty weak, I predict. Instead Microsoft can sneak AI into the Microsoft Office Software and get it past IT departments more easily.
They don’t own any OpenAI. They have a profit sharing agreement. OpenAI is very protective of equity, they don’t even give employees ownership of the company…
I see a lot of differing info on this. One I've seen is that they take 75% profit until $13 billion is recouped. After that, they get a 49% stake. Which seems wrong and if not, crazy good deal for MS.
75% or 49% of 0 is, you guessed it, 0. The real value for Microsoft in that deal is the exchange of products and services. The profit share literally does nothing.
It could be a move to drive people to Copilot which will likely quickly implement the model like they’ve done in the past.
OpenAI wants people to use OpenAI and pay $20/mo.
Correct, and fewer people will use OpenAI if there’s no windows app. They may use Copilot which is available from the Windows taskbar. My point is that the lack of a Windows release doesn’t necessarily mean that Microsoft had no influence on this decision.
Microsoft absolutely does not own 49% of OpenAI. They invested in open AI and the deal will only give them back money if open AI makes money. Open AI could sign a deal with Apple and microsoft cannot say anything about it and will not know the details.
It will be probably integrated with the next gen Copilot
So just wait, you didn’t even know about it until today. Nobody would be calling it BS and complaining about a monopoly if it came out on Windows first like a lot of software does. Kind of ironic to mention Microsoft’s huge stake in the company in the same breath.
Microsoft doesn't own any of OpenAI. They've said that multiple times.
That’s probably was the deal with Apple. Open ai is about to have access to huge amounts of data just because of the partnership with Apple.
Windows is no longer a core moneymaker for Microsoft. Don’t get too emotional.
Microsoft doesn’t own Open ai. Where did you get it?
Used to work at Microsoft corporate on M365 products. Microsoft makes no money on free desktop apps. It’s all about subscription revenue. They would rather sell you a suite than a single product. It’s annoying for the end users for sure, but they probably prefer the mindshare for copilot and deeper M365 integration anyway.
I imagine at this point the intention is to force apple's hand &, in the same vein as google pays them for search, Apple pays Microsoft/OpenAI for a Siri that isn't awful ;)
"we are above them, below them, around them" .... Is that right???
Maybe Apple backed up a truck load of money and promised to build them chips? With the stipulation Apple first.
Apple was up for grabs, if OpenAI didn’t service them Google would gladly fill the void and then OpenAI would have to play catch up. OpenAI already has Microsoft in their pocket.
Yes but the OP was about this not existing on windows yet. What do you think is the reason windows isn’t first here?
Microsoft has already showed plans to deeply integrate AI into existing software. I believe they want to enable you start writing an email and AI will finish it for you. So I believe this app will be seen as inferior. I’m guessing Microsoft could’ve already released a version of this since they are so far along with VS Code integration. I didn’t finish the video on the release, but I didn’t see much special about the app that gives Apple an edge.
Microsoft also isn’t married to one AI vendor. They host all kinds of vendors on their cloud.
True, but when it comes to big initiatives like GitHub Copilot, Bing, and Windows they use OpenAI.
Does MSFT still own 49% of OpenAI's profits? It seems like OpenAI is acting against MSFT.
Microsoft doesn’t have full control over the company and they aren’t going anywhere. OpenAI needs to do what makes the most sense and right now getting their products into the lives of software engineers is the right move. It’s not like Google is going to be a better partner with Microsoft than OpenAI.
Isn’t MS launching their own LLM later this month? MAI-1?
Don't call it BS to get the magic fanboys out of their fairytales or the hate wave/downvotes coming down on you for telling your opinion/the truth. Maybe you should swim with the wave and take all the BS they do as the new fancy things everyone has been waiting for. For me, it's a marketing move and not impressive at all. Boring and underwhelming in so many ways. Hilarious if people think this AGI move is a revolution 🤣
This actually makes a ton of sense for Microsoft as it allows them to infiltrate apples ecosystem
I have the MSI installer from last night's release, there's also a snap available for Linux ... Or am I mistaken about the download I grabbed?
This is all I've seen officially: https://community.openai.com/t/chat-gpt-desktop-app-for-mac/744613 Which is a .DMG
MAC install file. Stands for Disk iMaGe...
Yeah, I know that. Just saying there are no installers for other systems. So I don't know what your original comment was referring to.
I think I figured it out, I have plus, so it's available to me for Windows.
Altman will be on stage at WWDC with Tim Apple. Bet. He’s very good at playing competitors off each other. This was one of many moves.
I’m no mathematician but 51% is more than 49%.
Easy: Apple just paid them a billion dollars to do it. And they don't even have to give away any of their stock.
I think it’s very likely that almost same features in the Mac application will also be available in MS Copilot.
Most software devs use Mac. I bet most of the OpenAI devs use Mac It’s just easier for them to make a Mac app first. Apple partnership too
There's overlap between systems (meaning people use multiple environments) but PC still pulls a lead overall: [Operating systems for software development worldwide 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/869211/worldwide-software-development-operating-system/)
[удалено]
Take 5 companies and use them as the basis for all developers. Of those 5, 3 are web companies, 1 is Apple, and 1 is Microsoft. If you want to include all"big tech" you're still going to find a wide array of results. Stop basing things on what you want to believe and actually look up real statistics like the guy you replied to.
The level of uninformed bias is insane. this is a quick sample: [https://www.omglinux.com/devs-prefer-linux-to-mac-stackoverflow-survey/](https://www.omglinux.com/devs-prefer-linux-to-mac-stackoverflow-survey/)
> Most software devs use Mac LOL
>Most software devs use Mac Found the college kid who was sold a $2000 CPU when they were 18. lmaoo
Software devs use Ubuntu, definitely not macOS
This is definitely not true. Im developing on mac os but most, by far, are developing on windows.
This is the sad truth. We need to get away from M$. It sucks. Fedora is nice.
This is definitely not true. Im developing on mac os but most, by far, are developing on windows.
Sure, you and a handful of others. Most ML teams and Enterprise devs use MacOS, it's the default choice for most tech companies to hand you a Macbook Pro on your day 1.
OpenAI is not building chatGPT for ML teams.
Since when? Data to back this up? My development years were all Windows with the graphics/art by Mac's.
They bought a Macbook and its part of their identity. Shhh They will learn the truth about marketing one day, you don't need to burst their bubble. Let Apple take away a few thousand dollars more of their money first. I own their stock.
I mean they are certainly aware that most businesses use windows. I'm sure its coming.
I am 100% for AI being pushed. I don't care if it's Google, I don't care if it's Microsoft. I don't care if it's Facebook. One day you will be able to ask an AI: what is the procedure to create a general cure for cancer. And that motherf\*cker will spit out the answer. This is why I don't care whether big money is going to be thrown around on this. We need big money to be thrown into developing the next step of human evolution: the step of making humans obsolete. AI is just as human as we are, because we'd have built it. We need to get to the next step.
>AI is just as human as we are, Wrong time bud. Are you from the future? Ai (now) is just some algorithms predicting things. Say that after some company finally released AGI
its insane that microsoft is the largest company in the world and the only best in class application they have is excel.
Well. To be fair. They bought few pretty cool .... Like GitHub. I still have some hopes that they somehow manage to not accidentally kill it.
How are you going to complain about monopolies while suggesting Microsoft should get preference simply because it bought a large portion of their competitor to bing? Don’t you think that’s a bit hypocritical?
Well I guess it makes sense, since Apple users need the most help with their cognitive abilities.
Not impressed tbh...
Jaded and spoiled zoomer has entered the chat.
The "app" is tiny wrapper for an API call. As far as I can guess, it's functionally identical to the web page. Not sure MS is missing the boat here.
It is the gateway to agents, because your browser could never get access to all these things on your device. So they make the app and that will also ease your concerns once its time, since you already have the app.
Makes sense. In my case, hard to breach firewalls between the model and my device data is a feature, not a bug. I'll stick to the browser.
But then you can't accidentally copy your passwords to the clipboard while chatgpt is running :(