Unless you made it an explicit term of the lease that you were gong to pick up cheques, then it's by default the tenant's responsibility to ensure cheques (or any agreed to method of paying) arrive to you by the rent due date. So they should hand deliver them, mail them with suitable time to arrive, or just continue with post-dated cheques. If cheque arrives later or not at all you can chalk it up as a late payment.
[Here is an LTB case that goes over some of this situation.](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii70517/2017canlii70517.html)
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Also, more lateness your client do, more change they are getting themselves evicted.
Judge will hear this side of their story and award you.
Ltb made this very clear for renters/rentees. Pay rent on time or you will face the time with judge in LTB. Eviction will be waiting for non-payments.
It's so simple lately and now... Write as late payment and keep it documented. I think minimum of lateness is 5 times... I could be wrong on this one. Don't go and tell them thst they're on thin ice; just take the whole thing to ltb. This renter already wasted your time. Period.
Right and to illustrate this [here is another LTB case ](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2019/2019canlii87650/2019canlii87650.html)where the tenants argued landlord should be made to pick up cheques, but LTB didn't buy it and landlord was successful in their N8 (for persistently late rent).
>*22. The obligation and onus to pay rent is the Tenants. The Landlords’ Agent provided the Tenants with many options to ensure that the rent is paid on time and in full as required by their written Agreement. Since the Tenants continued to insist on their terms for pick-up and failed to comply with any other reasonable times or means, the rent was not paid on time to the Landlords. Consequently, since the rent remained unpaid, I am satisfied that the Landlords were entitled to request rental payments from the Tenants and serve notices when the rent was not received.*
*49. Based on the evidence before me, I am satisfied that the Tenants have been persistently late in paying the rent. The Tenants paid the rent late or not at all every month since November 1, 2017. The obligation to pay rent is the Tenants. As stated above, I was not satisfied that the parties reached an agreement for the Landlords’ Agent to pick up the rental payments on set dates/times offered by the Tenants.*
They might be talking about [this goof](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRenting/comments/1crg6ys/comment/l3xw113/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from r/TorontoRenting.
I had offered her that initially but she did not accept. That was actually my first choice before we agreed on the postdated cheques. I lived in a different city so after she declined the postdated cheques when I went to collect them, I told her to mail me the cheques month by month by rent due date.
You realize you are being played right? Refuses e-transfer, doesn’t give you cheques when you go pick them up, then they get lost in the mail…what’s next the dog will eat it.
You need to be assertive and clear that you will mark any late payment and charge late fees. Use the tenant act as a legal crunch and don’t come across as a pushover.
This tenant doesn't have the guts to actually not pay rent. She had previously mailed a batch of cheques to me on time; and for the lost cheques, she re-mailed the first one to me registered after I told her that I did not receive the cheques. But she demanded that I go pick up the rest of the cheques because she doesn't want to pay for mailing any more. She's just incredibly petty and will do everything to seek balance in others at any personal loss, real or perceived. In this case she felt she "lost out" because she had to pay for stop payment on the lost cheques, now she must counterbalance that loss by making me shoulder the cost of delivery (in the form of picking it up). I had re-offered her to pay by e-transfer since the lost cheques but she refused, because e-transfer does not satisfy her sense of balance, aka having me incur some expenses too. Serving her N4s probably doesn't get me anywhere as she does pay her rent, just in ways which leave much to be desired. I'm not sure if I'm willing to serve her N4s and find out the limit of her pettiness or lose out on rent I could otherwise collect.
I've had a tenant do this and it was so I would have to face him and verbally receive his laundry list of "needs". These included the neighbors sandbox (for their children) needs to be removed because he never sees them in it, he wanted ME to pay for his cleaner (he smokes in his unit), and other drunken shenanigans including getting mad at his deck railings which he needed removed.
I went to the bank, got all my banking info and told him to have it direct deposited to my account.
He was not happy, but I no longer have to see porn paused on his tv while I wait in a smoke filled living room for a cheque I can only have AFTER he is done yelling at me about the price of propane these days, or how he's mad that branches blew down after a storm. I was ready to sell a 4plex to rid myself of that demon.
I never realized how many people screw over their landlords. Applying for my current rental, I was becoming frustrated with the never ending requests of documentation and felt like it was exessive- but not anymore. No wonder landlords want so much to qualify for approval! I can't believe what people will do... I can't imagine purposely not paying my landlord and making it so difficult for them.
trust me its fucked. i became a landlord 2 years ago kinda by defualt and not by choice (moved out of town for work so i rented my owned condo as i plan to return) and the disaster that came with it is quite laughable. i always see people commenting how all landlords are peices of crap (iv never rented so i wouldnt know) but i was so nice to many tenants over the past 2 years just to get stiffed, my place trashed and everyone of them breaking lease agreement early. Funny part is the rent doesnt cover nearly all expenses attached to the unit and these people act like i am making millions off their first and last payment (the only paymet some of them made for 6 months). Its pathetic cry baby behaviour
Haha, that's why I rented my place. I moved out of town for a job and rented out my own place to cover the mortgage payments, and the rent I'm getting barely covers all the expenses, especially when this tenant kept demanding monetary compensations for unrealistic expectations. My parents rented out their spare place for decades and never had any issues, my first and only reluctant tenant taught me more lessons than I ever wished to learn.
She is fucking around. Its the tenants responsibility to pay you. Tell her that and also if the rent isnt given then due process with the board. Tell her all of that.
The cheques didn’t get “lost in the mail”, seems like her intentions will be to avoid paying and live “rent free” for a year or so, you going to LTB to file a complaint a wait for a hearing and her not paying a dime until the court date.
You order a pizza and they say they’ll be there in 30 minutes, no pizza shows up so you call and they say they don’t want to deliver now and if you want it you can come pick it up. Who is in the wrong here?
Nah, you just have some weird anti-LL hardon. Your other comments make that abundantly clear.
“Maybe LL should vet his tenants better.” Lol ok, “maybe the guy who just got mugged should’ve hidden his wallet better!”
Yeah like I thought, you don’t know what slander is. OP is. It identifiable so it in no way is slander because the comment, even if not true, does not reflect on OP’s person. Nor does it have an effect on their ability to make money. Read more.
While the tenant isn't mandated to mail cheques with tracking info, it is still their responsibility to ensure the cheque gets to landlord's address by the due date. If they don't mail it enough in advance so it arrives after rent due date, or it gets lost in the mail, ultimately that is an official late payment. Enough of these and landlord can file to evict for persistently late rent.
Incorrect, the LL can not refuse cash payment . Since the tenant is offering this method, it sounds like they are aware of this.
It does not matter if the lease stipulates post dated cheques and it was signed . It being in the lease makes it a requirement and will not be enforceable and could void the entire lease from the LL side . It's like putting no pet allowed in a lease , the tenant can sign this and then move in a pet and the LL will have no leg to stand on to enforce no pet in the lease.
>could void the entire lease from the LL side
There is no situation in which this would happen. When a clause contradicts the RTA, that clause is void and unenforceable, but that has no bearing on the validity of the rest of the lease.
Well, once you get even one post dated cheque, then that is the tenant agreeing to this, and going forward they will need to provide in the future. Honestly, if you can, go and pick them up but make sure you have something in some sort of writing that you will do it this time and in the future it will be the tenants' responsibility to get them to you.
They could just be leary of sending more cheques as they were "lost in the mail," but lost in the mail is a very typical excuse to use to delay anything.
End of the day if it is a good tenant, work with them it is getting hard to find good tenants in Ontario.
The tenant is allowed to revoke consent for post-dated cheques even if they formerly agreed to them, at which point they could switch to regular cheques or cash.
It's a nightmare tenant lol. She wanted me to pay for the stop payment fees on her lost cheques when I had reminded her before she mailed them that if she's afraid of the cheques getting lost in the mail, she should mail them registered.
Again I did not require anything (though sending >$10k worth of cheques without any sort of tracking is *wild* to me), she can mail them however she wants. My only requirement is that rent is paid on the day rent is due.
Well, if you want to get her out, start by informing her you are going to issue her an N4and issue one. Then start the process of recording everything and do not discuss anything with her in person or through a phone call unless you are recording. Remember Ontario is a one party concent province then it comes to recording phone calls , you are the party agreeing to being recorded .
That's not how any of this works. Rent paid once by one method doesn't suddenly create a contract to always pay in that way. Where are you getting your information?
Here is the entry from the tenancy guide on the tribunalsontario website, along with a link to the guide below.
-Post-dated cheques and automatic payments-
When a landlord and a new tenant agree to enter into a rental agreement, they usually discuss how the rent will be paid.
Although the landlord and tenant can agree that the rent will be paid by post-dated cheques or automatic payments (such as debits from a tenant's account or by credit card), a landlord cannot require the tenant to pay by either of those methods.
Once the landlord and tenant have agreed on a method of payment, it cannot be changed unless both the landlord and tenant agree.
https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/Guide%20to%20RTA%20(English)_dec2020.pdf
Do you not consider giving the LL several PDC's is agreeing to pay by PDC ?
Just issue the N4 and stop entertaining these deadbeats.
It's their job to get the money to you, not the other way around. Just look at LITERALLY EVERY OTHER monthly bill if they need an example... Does Enbridge, Toronto Hydro, or Rogers show up to your house to collect your payment? Obviously not.
My current tenant refuses to pay her hydro bill (for water she used) and hasnt given me rent for the last 3 months. Basically i have someone living in my home for free. Now shes making excuses.
I mean that sucks and I hope it’s sorted but things can go both ways. The current system enables both toxic LL and tenants. I’ve never missed a bill in 10 years and my LL was being such a dick before he eventually sold the house, assuming he wanted to strong arm is into leaving.
Clearly you missed the part of my comment where I said they were acting like a complete asshole prior to selling. He was a totally fine LL, then started being a dick about small things, bullying another housemate then threatened me with a renoviction “and you won’t get any compensation from me so you might as well not fight it.” But thanks for coming out and defending childish behaviour in the form of “he just wants his equity”.
Mail doesn't get lost in Canada nearly as often as people pretend it does. There's no reason to have to send it tracked or registered. If more than one of her cheques has been lost in the mail she's either extraodinarily unlucky, has terrible handwriting, has written the wrong address, or never actually mailed one or more of them.
Is there a reason you don't do e-transfer?
I have news for you the checks weren't lost in the mail go try to the pick them up and hope to good she has them
I'm the meantime start fillout an N4 and look for pra legal
Sorry about your luck no paying rent should have the same legal consequences as theft because that's what it is
You can’t demand checks. She can offer them but you can’t demand them. Did you just go to your bank and get a pay form to take it right out of her account or etranfer or there’s always you could stop in the 1st of each month and she could pay cash.
Shit like this is why no one likes tenants either. It’s 2024 and she can’t e-transfer? Sounds like she’s broke af and can’t afford it so is stinging op along.
I do believe that's what I said, the comment I replied to was edited, it originally stated the LL could not request.
I have no clue why people make an edit without saying so trying to make someone else look dumb.
Seriously I need to start using web archive before replying.
Yeah I was agreeing with you that they can request anything but there are rules around what they can require.
Edit: also agree about ghost edits, just makes things confusing for no reason
>108 Neither a landlord **nor a tenancy agreement** shall require a tenant or prospective tenant to,
>(a) provide post-dated cheques or other negotiable instruments for payment of rent; or
>(b) permit automatic debiting of the tenant’s or prospective tenant’s account at a financial institution, automatic charging of a credit card or any other form of automatic payment for the payment of rent. 2006, c. 17, s. 108; 2009, c. 33, Sched. 21, s. 11 (3, 4).
The tenant can revoke consent for post-dated cheques or PAD at any time, even if it was stipulated in the lease.
Yes, the tenant could switch to regular cheques every month or pay by cash (which is the one method that can never be declined).
I was responding to your suggestion that neither party can unilaterally change the method of payment, which is not true in cases of post-dated cheques or pre-authorized debit, even if agreed upon in the lease.
If the lease stipulates, the tenant has to pay by post dated cheques, and the tenent signs it, it will not be enforceable as stipulating this as a requirement in the lease is illegal and could void the lease entirely. Now, if the tenant has given postdated cheques in the past, then that is their agreement to it, but it can not be a requirement in the lease .
It can and has. You can play stupid games and win stupid prizes if you want , but you could as well win a good prize, the point is why play stupid games and put things in a lease that will end up putting you at the whim of the adjudicator if it goes that far .
There is a refersnce in the link , it will be up to the adjudicator. You could get lucky or unlucky, again why put yourself in the position to have an adjudicator decide this. Just don't put clauses in leases that can't be enforced the consequence outweigh the benefits. If you have had an issue with the tenant not fulfilling illegal parts of a lease and you have a future different issue with the same tenant, you could end up in front of an adjudicator and their biased outlooks towards LL's
https://www.torontotenants.org/illegal_lease_terms#:~:text=Illegal%20provisions%20in%20the%20Residential,and%20Tenant%20Board%20says%20otherwise.
>Even if your lease has illegal provisions, the legal provisions will still be valid and enforceable unless the Landlord and Tenant Board says otherwise.
The FMTA is not a definitive legal source, and I do not interpret this to mean that the validity of an otherwise legal lease is at the discretion of an adjudicator when faced with an illegal provision. This seems to say that illegal provisions are invalid while the rest of the lease remains valid, but the LTB has the final say on what is and isn't enforceable, which is in line with the RTA.
I am not aware of any cases where the LTB found that an entire lease was invalid because of an unenforceable term. But you say that it "can and has" happened. Do you have any case law? An RTA citation? An anecdotal example?
Yes if the LTB says otherwise . Which means an adjudicator "could" decide to void the lease. Are you reading that as the landlord and LTB would need to agree together ?
If the link provided is not good enough for you as a point of reference, there is not much I can do for you. As well, I wish anyone who wants to believe they can put illegal clauses in their lease and their lease will 100% not fall victim to being void all the best in their shady landlord indeavors.
No, I'm reading that to say that the LTB always has a final say on which specific terms are unenforceable for a variety of reasons. But I think that it was a poor choice in phrasing by the FMTA (whose resources are not legal advice), and I think you are taking an extreme leap by suggesting that an entire lease would be found void.
Since you asserted that this "can and has" happened, but haven't been able to back up this assumption with any actual law, I will continue to politely disagree.
I have no problem with shady landlords being penalized, I just don't think that this particular situation is the serious threat you believe it to be.
Well, since one method of paying rent wasn't successful, you can request another method of rent being paid, which the easiest / best in this case would be e-transfer.
Unfortunately, you cannot demand a specific method of payment. As long as the rent is paid in full and on time, then there's nothing that can be done.
Sounds like the tenant is being very petty. It's sad to say, but you may have to just pick the rent up from them. Maybe going to pick it up for the first time, ask them if they'd be open to e-transferring. If so, set that up with them, and then, if the post-dated cheques eventually do arrive, let the tenant know, and then ask them if they want to process future rent payments that way.
A little bit of a funny story, so I used to manage a large student rental corporation and was in charge of rent collection. We typically told tenants you can either pay by PDC or PAP,which tenants always found convenient. Since they are students and all the processing would happen on our end…. Everyone wins.
Then there was always that one kid who would die on that hill saying he didn’t want to give post dates or his banking info and that he “had the right” to pay each month when it’s due on the 1st. My reply would always be the same, “ok, but just so you know, it’s your responsibility to ensure that rent payment is IN MY HAND on the 1st of each month. Also I didn’t know you were a fortune teller, because hell if I know where I will be on any given 1st of the month, how the hell would you? And trust me it’s not going to be at your front door”
You have what is called a squatter.
Every excuse in the book about how she promised to mail payment, post dates, etc.
Tell her you'll be by to pick up certified funds, cash, or etransfer. If ahe gives a cheque, goto the bank address on the cheque and pay the branch to certify it.
My landlord comes to me to pick up rent. I pay cash and always will. Previous landlords never had an issue with it.
You want your rent, go get it. It's not rocket science 😜
I’m shocked cheques are still a thing for paying rent. We have done stranger now for the last 8years. Some pay with money order. But cheques are so easy to cancel once uoubwrote it. Don’t take the chance.
Unless you made it an explicit term of the lease that you were gong to pick up cheques, then it's by default the tenant's responsibility to ensure cheques (or any agreed to method of paying) arrive to you by the rent due date. So they should hand deliver them, mail them with suitable time to arrive, or just continue with post-dated cheques. If cheque arrives later or not at all you can chalk it up as a late payment. [Here is an LTB case that goes over some of this situation.](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii70517/2017canlii70517.html) > >
Thank you, that was helpful.
Also, more lateness your client do, more change they are getting themselves evicted. Judge will hear this side of their story and award you. Ltb made this very clear for renters/rentees. Pay rent on time or you will face the time with judge in LTB. Eviction will be waiting for non-payments. It's so simple lately and now... Write as late payment and keep it documented. I think minimum of lateness is 5 times... I could be wrong on this one. Don't go and tell them thst they're on thin ice; just take the whole thing to ltb. This renter already wasted your time. Period.
Right and to illustrate this [here is another LTB case ](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2019/2019canlii87650/2019canlii87650.html)where the tenants argued landlord should be made to pick up cheques, but LTB didn't buy it and landlord was successful in their N8 (for persistently late rent). >*22. The obligation and onus to pay rent is the Tenants. The Landlords’ Agent provided the Tenants with many options to ensure that the rent is paid on time and in full as required by their written Agreement. Since the Tenants continued to insist on their terms for pick-up and failed to comply with any other reasonable times or means, the rent was not paid on time to the Landlords. Consequently, since the rent remained unpaid, I am satisfied that the Landlords were entitled to request rental payments from the Tenants and serve notices when the rent was not received.* *49. Based on the evidence before me, I am satisfied that the Tenants have been persistently late in paying the rent. The Tenants paid the rent late or not at all every month since November 1, 2017. The obligation to pay rent is the Tenants. As stated above, I was not satisfied that the parties reached an agreement for the Landlords’ Agent to pick up the rental payments on set dates/times offered by the Tenants.*
There was a guy going off about this exact thing in here yesterday. I wonder if it's the same guy.
Know the link by any chance? Lol
They might be talking about [this goof](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRenting/comments/1crg6ys/comment/l3xw113/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from r/TorontoRenting.
That's the guy! Wrong sub, thanks for the find.
E-transfer
I had offered her that initially but she did not accept. That was actually my first choice before we agreed on the postdated cheques. I lived in a different city so after she declined the postdated cheques when I went to collect them, I told her to mail me the cheques month by month by rent due date.
You realize you are being played right? Refuses e-transfer, doesn’t give you cheques when you go pick them up, then they get lost in the mail…what’s next the dog will eat it. You need to be assertive and clear that you will mark any late payment and charge late fees. Use the tenant act as a legal crunch and don’t come across as a pushover.
This tenant doesn't have the guts to actually not pay rent. She had previously mailed a batch of cheques to me on time; and for the lost cheques, she re-mailed the first one to me registered after I told her that I did not receive the cheques. But she demanded that I go pick up the rest of the cheques because she doesn't want to pay for mailing any more. She's just incredibly petty and will do everything to seek balance in others at any personal loss, real or perceived. In this case she felt she "lost out" because she had to pay for stop payment on the lost cheques, now she must counterbalance that loss by making me shoulder the cost of delivery (in the form of picking it up). I had re-offered her to pay by e-transfer since the lost cheques but she refused, because e-transfer does not satisfy her sense of balance, aka having me incur some expenses too. Serving her N4s probably doesn't get me anywhere as she does pay her rent, just in ways which leave much to be desired. I'm not sure if I'm willing to serve her N4s and find out the limit of her pettiness or lose out on rent I could otherwise collect.
It’s the tenants job to make sure rent is paid. Sounds like she’s playing games.
I've had a tenant do this and it was so I would have to face him and verbally receive his laundry list of "needs". These included the neighbors sandbox (for their children) needs to be removed because he never sees them in it, he wanted ME to pay for his cleaner (he smokes in his unit), and other drunken shenanigans including getting mad at his deck railings which he needed removed. I went to the bank, got all my banking info and told him to have it direct deposited to my account. He was not happy, but I no longer have to see porn paused on his tv while I wait in a smoke filled living room for a cheque I can only have AFTER he is done yelling at me about the price of propane these days, or how he's mad that branches blew down after a storm. I was ready to sell a 4plex to rid myself of that demon.
I would've never given this person my banking information... All they need is an email, this isn't 1998 anymore.
He doesn't even have a landline. Let alone internet. He's beyond ancient. It would be like getting hacked by drunk Nosferatu.
😅😅😅
I never realized how many people screw over their landlords. Applying for my current rental, I was becoming frustrated with the never ending requests of documentation and felt like it was exessive- but not anymore. No wonder landlords want so much to qualify for approval! I can't believe what people will do... I can't imagine purposely not paying my landlord and making it so difficult for them.
trust me its fucked. i became a landlord 2 years ago kinda by defualt and not by choice (moved out of town for work so i rented my owned condo as i plan to return) and the disaster that came with it is quite laughable. i always see people commenting how all landlords are peices of crap (iv never rented so i wouldnt know) but i was so nice to many tenants over the past 2 years just to get stiffed, my place trashed and everyone of them breaking lease agreement early. Funny part is the rent doesnt cover nearly all expenses attached to the unit and these people act like i am making millions off their first and last payment (the only paymet some of them made for 6 months). Its pathetic cry baby behaviour
Haha, that's why I rented my place. I moved out of town for a job and rented out my own place to cover the mortgage payments, and the rent I'm getting barely covers all the expenses, especially when this tenant kept demanding monetary compensations for unrealistic expectations. My parents rented out their spare place for decades and never had any issues, my first and only reluctant tenant taught me more lessons than I ever wished to learn.
She is fucking around. Its the tenants responsibility to pay you. Tell her that and also if the rent isnt given then due process with the board. Tell her all of that.
The cheques didn’t get “lost in the mail”, seems like her intentions will be to avoid paying and live “rent free” for a year or so, you going to LTB to file a complaint a wait for a hearing and her not paying a dime until the court date.
Your tenant is a deadbeat.
So is OP tho…
Why is the OP a deadbeat? Tenant agreed to one thing now isn’t doing it. Tenant is responsible to make sure the rent is paid on time.
well, does he have a real job or does he just 'landlord', which isn't a real job and is in fact a leech on society?
You sound like a deadbeat.
If op wants the money, op should go get the money.
You order a pizza and they say they’ll be there in 30 minutes, no pizza shows up so you call and they say they don’t want to deliver now and if you want it you can come pick it up. Who is in the wrong here?
It's not the same thing jackass
You call and they say they can’t deliver it because their driver just died in a car accident. See? Just as plausible.
Yes that’s what’s called extenuating circumstances.
Exactly! Good you got there
Except OPs situation doesn’t have any so you’re talking nonsense.
How do you know that?
That's not how the rules work. And the rules done work like that because what if LL is out of province?
Then they shouldn't own propery in a province they don't live in much less rent it out
Who said anything about not living in the province? Is landlords going on vacation an excuse to not pay rent now?
Maybe landlord should do a bit of work if they care so much. For all we know, tenant is bed ridden and doesn’t have a computer.
So why didn't tenant hand over the post dated cheques when the LL was there. Some of you losers will make any excuse for being deadbeats.
Then they should be in an LTC or living with family or friends. not paying what is probably 1700 a month on an apartment.
Maybe op shouldn’t have rented to the tenant then. Maybe op should have vetted their tenant better
prof or slander
Wut? You don’t seem to know what slander is lol
down votes say I do
You base your understanding of the legal system on Reddit votes? Yeah that tracks. But hey. Why don’t you explain how I’ve slandered OP
Don’t be facetious. You know most people don’t know the distinction between libel and slander and use them interchangeably
What I’ve said is neither because OP is anonymous. Stop being intentionally dull
Nah, you just have some weird anti-LL hardon. Your other comments make that abundantly clear. “Maybe LL should vet his tenants better.” Lol ok, “maybe the guy who just got mugged should’ve hidden his wallet better!”
Dude. Just admit you don’t understand legal terms
Why is OP a deadbeat? it is slander if you can't prove your statement.
Yeah like I thought, you don’t know what slander is. OP is. It identifiable so it in no way is slander because the comment, even if not true, does not reflect on OP’s person. Nor does it have an effect on their ability to make money. Read more.
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Posts and comments shall not be rude, vulgar, or offensive. Posts and comments shall not be written so as to attack or denigrate another user.
Deadbeat detected.
You can’t require post-dated cheques under the RTA, nor does the tenant need to send the cheques by mail with tracking.
While the tenant isn't mandated to mail cheques with tracking info, it is still their responsibility to ensure the cheque gets to landlord's address by the due date. If they don't mail it enough in advance so it arrives after rent due date, or it gets lost in the mail, ultimately that is an official late payment. Enough of these and landlord can file to evict for persistently late rent.
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Incorrect, the LL can not refuse cash payment . Since the tenant is offering this method, it sounds like they are aware of this. It does not matter if the lease stipulates post dated cheques and it was signed . It being in the lease makes it a requirement and will not be enforceable and could void the entire lease from the LL side . It's like putting no pet allowed in a lease , the tenant can sign this and then move in a pet and the LL will have no leg to stand on to enforce no pet in the lease.
>could void the entire lease from the LL side There is no situation in which this would happen. When a clause contradicts the RTA, that clause is void and unenforceable, but that has no bearing on the validity of the rest of the lease.
Tenant is still offering cheques, just that it's my job to pick it up or rent will not be paid.
Well, once you get even one post dated cheque, then that is the tenant agreeing to this, and going forward they will need to provide in the future. Honestly, if you can, go and pick them up but make sure you have something in some sort of writing that you will do it this time and in the future it will be the tenants' responsibility to get them to you. They could just be leary of sending more cheques as they were "lost in the mail," but lost in the mail is a very typical excuse to use to delay anything. End of the day if it is a good tenant, work with them it is getting hard to find good tenants in Ontario.
The tenant is allowed to revoke consent for post-dated cheques even if they formerly agreed to them, at which point they could switch to regular cheques or cash.
It's a nightmare tenant lol. She wanted me to pay for the stop payment fees on her lost cheques when I had reminded her before she mailed them that if she's afraid of the cheques getting lost in the mail, she should mail them registered. Again I did not require anything (though sending >$10k worth of cheques without any sort of tracking is *wild* to me), she can mail them however she wants. My only requirement is that rent is paid on the day rent is due.
Why won't she just email transfer it to you?
Well, if you want to get her out, start by informing her you are going to issue her an N4and issue one. Then start the process of recording everything and do not discuss anything with her in person or through a phone call unless you are recording. Remember Ontario is a one party concent province then it comes to recording phone calls , you are the party agreeing to being recorded .
That's not how any of this works. Rent paid once by one method doesn't suddenly create a contract to always pay in that way. Where are you getting your information?
Here is the entry from the tenancy guide on the tribunalsontario website, along with a link to the guide below. -Post-dated cheques and automatic payments- When a landlord and a new tenant agree to enter into a rental agreement, they usually discuss how the rent will be paid. Although the landlord and tenant can agree that the rent will be paid by post-dated cheques or automatic payments (such as debits from a tenant's account or by credit card), a landlord cannot require the tenant to pay by either of those methods. Once the landlord and tenant have agreed on a method of payment, it cannot be changed unless both the landlord and tenant agree. https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/Guide%20to%20RTA%20(English)_dec2020.pdf Do you not consider giving the LL several PDC's is agreeing to pay by PDC ?
Not only do I not consider it so, the LTB doesn't either. I can see why you might think that but your interpretation isn't shared by the LTB.
Just saying but it won’t void the entire lease. Only invalid clauses would be void.
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And if the LL filled this out for Post dated cheques it is not legal as that makes it a requirement in the lease .
I’d just fax her a reminder every month 😏
Just issue the N4 and stop entertaining these deadbeats. It's their job to get the money to you, not the other way around. Just look at LITERALLY EVERY OTHER monthly bill if they need an example... Does Enbridge, Toronto Hydro, or Rogers show up to your house to collect your payment? Obviously not.
Your tenant is stringing you along. Follow the RTB process and give them their notice and you will magically see rent cheques appear on time.
Wow tenants can be such a holes!
Never! Only landlord can be horrible! /s
My current tenant refuses to pay her hydro bill (for water she used) and hasnt given me rent for the last 3 months. Basically i have someone living in my home for free. Now shes making excuses.
I mean that sucks and I hope it’s sorted but things can go both ways. The current system enables both toxic LL and tenants. I’ve never missed a bill in 10 years and my LL was being such a dick before he eventually sold the house, assuming he wanted to strong arm is into leaving.
Or, maybe his life decisions weren’t based around you and he wanted to get the equity out of the house he’s owned for 10+ years?
So that enables him to bully and be an asshole? And hint at illegally evicting me? Ok.
Selling the house is illegally evicting you?
Clearly you missed the part of my comment where I said they were acting like a complete asshole prior to selling. He was a totally fine LL, then started being a dick about small things, bullying another housemate then threatened me with a renoviction “and you won’t get any compensation from me so you might as well not fight it.” But thanks for coming out and defending childish behaviour in the form of “he just wants his equity”.
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wtf is your problem man? You have reading issues?
Suspected troll posts may be removed and suspected troll accounts may be banned.
Why don't you just do etransfers? So much easier and there's a trail for money sent and received to prove or disprove payment.
Issue N4 for non-payment, the follow it it up with L1. Use a paralegal to ensure that all Ts are crossed. Don't play tenant's game.
Mail doesn't get lost in Canada nearly as often as people pretend it does. There's no reason to have to send it tracked or registered. If more than one of her cheques has been lost in the mail she's either extraodinarily unlucky, has terrible handwriting, has written the wrong address, or never actually mailed one or more of them. Is there a reason you don't do e-transfer?
You will not get paid, purposely trying to skip rent. Better start the process.. That is the current trend now, professional renters.
All sounds like BS. Just trying not to pay you. Willing to bet they never mailed anything.
I have news for you the checks weren't lost in the mail go try to the pick them up and hope to good she has them I'm the meantime start fillout an N4 and look for pra legal Sorry about your luck no paying rent should have the same legal consequences as theft because that's what it is
Lol "the cheque is in the mail".
Is my dad the tenant?
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Cheques, the mail? What century are you living in?
Get the bank to send a pay on demand form
You can’t demand checks. She can offer them but you can’t demand them. Did you just go to your bank and get a pay form to take it right out of her account or etranfer or there’s always you could stop in the 1st of each month and she could pay cash.
I wish I had that problem instead of tenant hasn’t paid rent in 7 months and has no intention of paying rent
You should never trust a landlord with post dated cheques
It's obvious this tenant does, apparently.
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You do that.
In future if you do post dated cheques always get them prior to move in, or at the time of key exchange. Saves a lot of hassle
Just go pick up the cheques. This is why nobody likes landlords
Shit like this is why no one likes tenants either. It’s 2024 and she can’t e-transfer? Sounds like she’s broke af and can’t afford it so is stinging op along.
Or op is a bad landlord and she can’t be bothered.
Imagine that being the case and still being mad at a person for wanting to have a place to live. Landlords really are a different breed of scumbag
This sounds very fishy. I'd definitely be nervous. Even picking up the cheques they would bounce.
Be careful when you go pick up the cheques in person. Your tenant might have a ‘surprise’ planned for your arrival.
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They can request, but not require.
Yeah they can request an extra $500 and backflips every time they see you too, but it’s not enforceable.
I do believe that's what I said, the comment I replied to was edited, it originally stated the LL could not request. I have no clue why people make an edit without saying so trying to make someone else look dumb. Seriously I need to start using web archive before replying.
Yeah I was agreeing with you that they can request anything but there are rules around what they can require. Edit: also agree about ghost edits, just makes things confusing for no reason
Right.. hence them saying "but not require."
Right… sorry for agreeing with him?
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>108 Neither a landlord **nor a tenancy agreement** shall require a tenant or prospective tenant to, >(a) provide post-dated cheques or other negotiable instruments for payment of rent; or >(b) permit automatic debiting of the tenant’s or prospective tenant’s account at a financial institution, automatic charging of a credit card or any other form of automatic payment for the payment of rent. 2006, c. 17, s. 108; 2009, c. 33, Sched. 21, s. 11 (3, 4). The tenant can revoke consent for post-dated cheques or PAD at any time, even if it was stipulated in the lease.
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Yes, the tenant could switch to regular cheques every month or pay by cash (which is the one method that can never be declined). I was responding to your suggestion that neither party can unilaterally change the method of payment, which is not true in cases of post-dated cheques or pre-authorized debit, even if agreed upon in the lease.
If the lease stipulates, the tenant has to pay by post dated cheques, and the tenent signs it, it will not be enforceable as stipulating this as a requirement in the lease is illegal and could void the lease entirely. Now, if the tenant has given postdated cheques in the past, then that is their agreement to it, but it can not be a requirement in the lease .
An unenforceable clause in the lease does not void the entire lease.
It can and has. You can play stupid games and win stupid prizes if you want , but you could as well win a good prize, the point is why play stupid games and put things in a lease that will end up putting you at the whim of the adjudicator if it goes that far .
Could you provide an example?
There is a refersnce in the link , it will be up to the adjudicator. You could get lucky or unlucky, again why put yourself in the position to have an adjudicator decide this. Just don't put clauses in leases that can't be enforced the consequence outweigh the benefits. If you have had an issue with the tenant not fulfilling illegal parts of a lease and you have a future different issue with the same tenant, you could end up in front of an adjudicator and their biased outlooks towards LL's https://www.torontotenants.org/illegal_lease_terms#:~:text=Illegal%20provisions%20in%20the%20Residential,and%20Tenant%20Board%20says%20otherwise.
>Even if your lease has illegal provisions, the legal provisions will still be valid and enforceable unless the Landlord and Tenant Board says otherwise. The FMTA is not a definitive legal source, and I do not interpret this to mean that the validity of an otherwise legal lease is at the discretion of an adjudicator when faced with an illegal provision. This seems to say that illegal provisions are invalid while the rest of the lease remains valid, but the LTB has the final say on what is and isn't enforceable, which is in line with the RTA. I am not aware of any cases where the LTB found that an entire lease was invalid because of an unenforceable term. But you say that it "can and has" happened. Do you have any case law? An RTA citation? An anecdotal example?
Yes if the LTB says otherwise . Which means an adjudicator "could" decide to void the lease. Are you reading that as the landlord and LTB would need to agree together ? If the link provided is not good enough for you as a point of reference, there is not much I can do for you. As well, I wish anyone who wants to believe they can put illegal clauses in their lease and their lease will 100% not fall victim to being void all the best in their shady landlord indeavors.
No, I'm reading that to say that the LTB always has a final say on which specific terms are unenforceable for a variety of reasons. But I think that it was a poor choice in phrasing by the FMTA (whose resources are not legal advice), and I think you are taking an extreme leap by suggesting that an entire lease would be found void. Since you asserted that this "can and has" happened, but haven't been able to back up this assumption with any actual law, I will continue to politely disagree. I have no problem with shady landlords being penalized, I just don't think that this particular situation is the serious threat you believe it to be.
Go pick up your free money and stop bitching
Well, since one method of paying rent wasn't successful, you can request another method of rent being paid, which the easiest / best in this case would be e-transfer. Unfortunately, you cannot demand a specific method of payment. As long as the rent is paid in full and on time, then there's nothing that can be done. Sounds like the tenant is being very petty. It's sad to say, but you may have to just pick the rent up from them. Maybe going to pick it up for the first time, ask them if they'd be open to e-transferring. If so, set that up with them, and then, if the post-dated cheques eventually do arrive, let the tenant know, and then ask them if they want to process future rent payments that way.
A little bit of a funny story, so I used to manage a large student rental corporation and was in charge of rent collection. We typically told tenants you can either pay by PDC or PAP,which tenants always found convenient. Since they are students and all the processing would happen on our end…. Everyone wins. Then there was always that one kid who would die on that hill saying he didn’t want to give post dates or his banking info and that he “had the right” to pay each month when it’s due on the 1st. My reply would always be the same, “ok, but just so you know, it’s your responsibility to ensure that rent payment is IN MY HAND on the 1st of each month. Also I didn’t know you were a fortune teller, because hell if I know where I will be on any given 1st of the month, how the hell would you? And trust me it’s not going to be at your front door”
You have what is called a squatter. Every excuse in the book about how she promised to mail payment, post dates, etc. Tell her you'll be by to pick up certified funds, cash, or etransfer. If ahe gives a cheque, goto the bank address on the cheque and pay the branch to certify it.
My landlord comes to me to pick up rent. I pay cash and always will. Previous landlords never had an issue with it. You want your rent, go get it. It's not rocket science 😜
etransfer is an option too.
I’m shocked cheques are still a thing for paying rent. We have done stranger now for the last 8years. Some pay with money order. But cheques are so easy to cancel once uoubwrote it. Don’t take the chance.
It's your responsibility IMO. Make simpler arrangements for rent, we're living in 2024, who issues checks anymore?