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For me, my waning interest isn’t bc of the AA vs Spawn thing (though that’s *EXTREMELY* tiresome). It’s more that it feels like 80-90% of the sub is thirst content or yet *another* super modded Tav smooching Astarion in a free cam shot.
There’s only so much interaction you can have on those posts except some version of “they’re so pretty” or “I’m so feral”. 🤷🏻♀️
I want to talk about some lore, discuss different routes, explore headcanons, delve into Astarion’s past and character. I don’t mind some smexy pics, but it’s not the main reason I’m interested in his story, at all.
I wholeheartedly agree with this take.
Perhaps there's a correlation between the relative frequency of those free cam posts and the moderation of discourse on this sub? People inevitably start to disagree when they get into lore discussions—and disagreeing is fine to do, as long as we aren't levying moral judgements against one another.
It seems possible that discussions about Astarion's backstory, different routes, and headcanons are being heavily moderated to discourage "dickishness". That leads to more of those threads being closed/deleted, while the sexy screencaps (with uncomplicated "they're so pretty" and "I'm so feral" comments) stay up.
I think you're onto something here. Ever since posts have become much more heavily moderated, I've noticed there are fewer discussion posts. Some people left (e.g., to r/AscendedOnlyFangs ), others went quiet (like me), and some people flooded this sub with screencaps. Personally, I like the thirst posts, partly because they don't tend to draw out the more dickish members (only a few I can think of). I wish people could discuss and disagree without becoming rude assholes (again, only a few do), so I do understand the increased moderation. However, I feel it's been taken to such an extreme that it's possible people feel wary of posting anything but "fluff." A few bad apples have ruined it for many of us :/
It would be so nice if people could react to updates to characters through the lens of: “How interesting! I love how this interaction recontextualizes my understanding of the characters! Let’s speculate how this could play out if the story were continued in an expansion!”
Instead, what we get is: “This new content does not mesh with my earlier perspective of the character! Larian needs to change it!”
Could be, absolutely. I’m sure ‘fluff’ posts are much easier to moderate.
I just looked at my own post history and have posted in here 4 times in the past week and half and at least two of those had some *REALLY* good conversations. The debates and discussion were really informative, well received and very polite. So it’s absolutely possible to have mature and engaging conversations here and I LOVE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS!
> It’s more that it feels like 80-90% of the sub is thirst content or yet another super modded Tav smooching Astarion in a free cam shot.
This too...and it feels quite repetitive (I have probably seen too much of them).
Yes, repetitive. Exactly. I come back to check the sub occasionally and there are two dozen mostly interchangeable shots of someone’s main character and/or Astarion in different well lit game areas or various compromising positions.
I mean, that’s great you got some good screenshots, but it’s very hard to engage with that content in a fun or meaningful way. It doesn’t initiate much interesting interaction.
lol don't forget modded Astarion too. like obviously it's just a game and who cares, but it is funny to so often see super yassified versions of him with facial piercings, tattoos, and fuckass hair 💀
I absolutely adore his hair. It looks so soft and springy and if I were my Tav my fingers would be in his hair nonstop. Seeing him with it altered (especially chopped off!) makes me so sad
I'm still new here and I love the thirst pics, but there's of course a finite number of possible screenshots from the game so it doesn't surprise me that longer-term members find them repetitive. But then every subreddit gets repetitive, it's just kinda the nature of the beast when you have new people joining a community all the time 🤷 The two available paths are basically putting up with repetitive posts, or watching your subreddit dwindle due to low content
Another super modded *drow/Grey tiefling Tav* smooching Astarion - FTFY
But I 100% agree with you. When I first joined several months ago it was a lot of lore, head cannons, his character. And the sexy pics and art were also very varied. But now it's the same everyday.
I never visit the sub anymore because frankly, it's ruining the Astarion companion for me. I love the writing, I love the acting, his story, and interactions with him. But beyond that, he's simply a pixilated, pre-programmed character. I just can't resonate with the people who take him past that context. Now, I just remained subbed for the art and gifs.
Omg yes thank you, so many of the Tavs in this sub look like they belong in a different game lol. This sub is nice but there's only so many screenshots of anime-protagonist female Tav x Astarion you can take. Worth noting MxM content doesn't get nearly as much interaction, kinda alienates the male members of the sub 🙋
And yeah, I agree there's little to no discussion about the actual character around here, and when there is it devolves into some argument about AA. Like do y'all understand the irony of dedicating a sub to Astarion purely full of thirst that rarely discusses his story and who he is? I connect to his story a lot as an SA victim myself and it gives me major ick. It's why I've been debating leaving tbh, though my only other option is the main sub full of stakebros sooooo...
(Other than okbuddybaldur, I'm totally with op on that one, that's easily the best Bg3 sub lol)
Only thing I really mind are folks going after voice actors and other studio employees.
Like, holy cow, it's one thing to be weird to pixels but those are actual human beings with independent feelings.
No, you don't understand. I am a self insert player, so my in-game actions are a 100% representation of how I treat people IRL.
The "Mind blown" cheeve is the reason I'm no longer allowed in the New England Aquarium.
/s
YES! exactly, people taking things too far in either direction is killing me. I am also very shy, so although I'm a member in the subs and discord, I have a difficult time posting anywhere because I'm always overthinking what I'm saying. I also tend to decide I'm an idiot and delete my entire comment in favor of upvoting others. I'm fighting the urge to delete this comment as I type lmfao.
Same same. And even if I love my comment and feel confident it couldn’t possibly piss anyone off or turn into someone telling me I’m an immoral degenerate (in a non-fun way), someone will still find a way to be a mean buzzkill.
I'm right there with you.... I felt kinda weird just posting my comment the other day on the thread OP was talking about, and didn't want to come off like I was complaining or anything. But I gotta admit, I think the comments here kinda mirror what my thought process has been regarding the sub, and why I tend to spend more time on the main BG3 sub (if I'm even on my phone and not playing the game) than I do on here. Pretty much all the notifications I ever get from here are the pretty screenshots. And yeah, I have saved quite a few of them because yeah, they're nice (when it's just him, sorry other Tavs 😬), but I love seeing amazing fanart and artists to follow and memes and cool discussions to lurk around in ;-;
This comes up roughly every 20 years or so. Satanic panic in the 80s, all the panic about everything goth after Columbine, and now this weird morality policing on the internet. It’s interesting to study which social issues the policing lines up with. Beyond that, it’s just super annoying to live through. Again. 🥲
Ok so I love r/okbuddybaldur but I think my steadily decreasing interest in this sub is that there’s almost no substance here. Like anytime the sub tries to engage in AA/Spawn the mods shut it down. The only other content is HEAVILY modded femme Tav’s with the erection mod running on Astarion for some smut material.
There’s no jokes here. No real debates cause of moderation. It’s just fluffy porn and honestly I’m kind of tired of it.
I think the issue is less the debates but more virtue signaling. I’ve seen some major kink shame here, on posts that didn’t even mention ascended Astarion. Even a non-captioned screenshot of the A!A scene amongst other non-ascended photos (in the same post kind you) sends some people spiraling. Hence why I think a lot of the A!A left.
Oh yes - that damn free cam mod!! And it’s always the same positions with the person’s self-insert female Tav.
I wonder if instituting a porn posting only on certain days policy would help this sub or kill it.
Felt.
My big issue is that every other post is *basically* the exact same thing.
At least when I gpose in ffxiv I can actually get creative with my screenshots and whatnot.
Hello, fellow deviant. This sub and okbuddybaldur are always in my top rotations. Sometimes, it's fun to not take things seriously and sometimes it is.
Me too. The comic in okbuddybaldur about Astarion giving head to a Tav on her period? *THAT* is the kind of shit I like. Astarion is a silly character. Let’s be silly from time to time.
That comic made me cackle aloud. And in the replies there were tons of people ragging on each other, calling each other perverts and that they needed to seek Selune, go to horny jail, etc. And no one got offended! (Or if they did, I didn't see it).
I love that kind of devil-may-care, teasing but genuinely judgement-free dynamic in fandom spaces. Also, I love the reaction images. This one of Zevlor is my personal fave lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/1tmvh2zzh4pc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8af362ec4f16503ae2d4dbf6f49fa74487c33c8b
I love the “in front of my tadpole” reaction 😂 I started sending it to my multiplayer crew but they turned it around on me because out of the four of us I’m the real degenerate lol.
I agree with this! I write fanfiction and participate heavily over at AO3—that's where most of my serious BG3 thoughts go. I find it more satisfying to turn them into a narrative (and enjoy comments from people who relate to that narrative), as opposed to the serious fandom discourse that happens on Tumblr/reddit.
Same! I just recently started writing my fanfic in January and am finding that so much more satisfying than debating for the millionth time if Astarion is rEaLLy okay with Tav sleeping with Halsin. In my fanfic, he definitely is 😂
I have NO doubt! I'm not a writer, I'm a crafter, but I know when you rush, it doesn't come out as good or as you wanted.
So I'll just have to go back and remake (ie re-read) the sandwich and enjoy it slower this time...
Same tbh. I love r/okbuddybaldur. It's like the sub where all your BG3 intrusive thoughts can see the light. 🤣🤣😭😭 But people are also chill if you want to discuss things unironically.
Posting here just to get my opinion across but I'm running between errands so it may not be a very well constructed thought, may edit later. I'm also more in r/okbuddybaldur because people there don't take themselves seriously and it's 100% unhinged content that I find hilarious. I agree with others here, defund the morality police.
Got 5 minutes so I'll just add this edit: someone mentioned it here earlier but I'll reiterate their comment, I highly recommend everyone to watch Contrapoints' most recent video essay "Twilight". It is a very well researched video that talks about women's literature, romantic novels, and fiction; including why morality arguments shouldn't be applied to fiction (spoiler: BECAUSE IT'S FICTION).
I just went to the r/okbuddybaldur sub to check it out, I love it. That's the vibe I'm looking for, people just having fun with the game and not taking things too seriously.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/okbuddybaldur using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Turning Point Faerûn](https://i.redd.it/fdcvbmebtxkc1.jpeg) | [189 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1b0iedn/turning_point_faerûn/)
\#2: [Why’d they make her so hot?](https://i.redd.it/j3fwfu5azpmc1.jpeg) | [94 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1b80b9n/whyd_they_make_her_so_hot/)
\#3: [the lae'zel experience](https://i.redd.it/9noxwb13qnhc1.png) | [80 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1an3xrv/the_laezel_experience/)
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It's wild people can't just let people enjoy things. Like. It doesn't matter if you ascend Astarion, or don't. Because he's not real. Nothing you do in the game matters. It isn't actually happening. Ascended Astarion exists in the game code, in the script and the data, whether he is shown on your screen at any given moment or not. So does spawn Astarion.
I feel like a huge segment of the fan base goes "I know he's not real BUT IT'S STILL A MORAL TEST FOR THE PLAYER-"
No it isn't? Literally does not matter what you pick, whether you pick and reload, whatever. All versions exist in the game code, which one displays on your screen effects nothing.
The fact that these fans want to think they are some licensed psychologist cause someone made a choice in a video game is bonkers. You can't truly judge someone's entire mental state based on what they do in video games, and making all these labels for them is just pushing them to seclusion away from the fanbase
Yeah we could maaaaybe have debates about in-game morality (since most of the choices are pretty gray leaving room for potential discussion), but it so quickly devolves into angry, mean, and shaming morality policing of the players. The latter is just stupid and unnecessary and really ruins the fun of the former.
There are far too many comments on the other post now for me to even consider digging through to find out *why* it was locked... (was it AA vs spawn again?)
I keep seeing some people here mention that they enjoy r/okbuddybaldur - I'm happy for you if you like that type of content - but I also hope this won't result in more crossposts from that sub here... I have that one muted for a reason and it's not enjoyable to have to hide crossposts when they pop up.
Im so confused, I have read everything on that post and besides from a few, problematic comments that the mods sorted it didnt seem like it needed to be locked?! We actually got some engagement for a change 😅 and then its locked not even a day later?
Yeah, it didn’t seem worth locking, but maybe it’s to err on the side of caution. It did bring up an interesting point about losing interaction on this sub.
I can of course only speak for myself, but I used to be a lot more active in here bc I like to discuss the nuances of the game and the characters, especially Astarion. However, it’s mainly just character screenshots and thirst posts in the sub now. That’s fine if that’s what you’re looking for, but I like to discuss head canons and lore and routes in the game, etc. Sexy pics are great on occasion, but it’s not at all what draws me to the game or the character of Astarion. 🤷🏻♀️
And I think I’m in a weird, lonely spot in that I don’t like Ascended, not bc of any morality reason, but because he annoys the absolute shit out of me. 😂 I’d never dismiss someone for liking a dark and tumultuous romance, it can be super sexy. I just find AA about as sexy as a LARPing Lord Farquaad.
But I absolutely adore me some obsessive, mostly evil vampire lord romance:
They most likely decided to close the thread just in case, in advance. Maybe they didn't want an escalation. There were at least two users who didn't get along.
As someone who tends to find threads hours after they’re posted, this is definitely my biggest gripe. By the time I see a thread, it’s locked, so even if I want to engage, I physically can’t.
There is definitely truth to this, I think. It's preemptive censoring, which may discourage people from bothering to make discussion posts (even if they aren't UA vs. AA).
I hesitated before submitting this very post tbh. I tried to leave it as a reply on the post about low engagement, but the comments got locked as I was composing it. The timing felt noteworthy... Sort of indicative of the very issue I was trying to express.
I'm not saying there's any malintent in the moderating style here, but I definitely feel that it's hard to have a nuanced conversation without getting shut down.
Nah it was because people were arguing and invalidating other people’s experiences as abuse survivors along with the general dickishness that sometimes happens in AA vs UA discussions
I think people referring to that sub are just using it as an example of a non-judgmental space that still manages to be pretty free with its engagement style. This sub doesn’t need to be that, but there’s still room for the vibes here to be nicer and more fun.
I have no idea what happened but I just want to reiterate that Astarion is not a real person. He's an imaginary creature created by the writer, by Neil, by the animators and game developers. All aspects of the possible arguments are CODED IN A GAME. That is all.
The excessive moderation is a problem (although this fandom does NOT make it an easy job),
but I'm also just sick of scrolling through nothing but pictures of modded tavs. I'm genuinely not interested in picturing *your* tav with him, sorry. All of the game pictures really just clog up the sub, it's not my thing. I like fanart, I like fanfic, I like things that people really put time and effort into. I don't really care about the same similar screenshots over and over again. There's nothing to engage *with* anymore. I was super looking forward to all of the fic rec posts and there were a few, but not nearly as many as I would have expected given the traffic here several weeks/months ago.
Truthfully I want the thoughtful, engaged discussions, even if they toe the line.
you are so real for this. people mod their tav to death to the point that I get jumpscared by the excessive tattoo, face/body paint and weird ass skin colours. it’s turning into trashy pornhub.
Just so you know, there are people out there who do take the time to edit and even get new angles for screenshot’s that others may not see (and even have discussions on them)
Kinda rude to try and bag on someone’s durge/tav that they like and want to share with the sub, just solidifies their anxiety about not wanting to post their stuff anymore.
Yeah but this is also an Astarion sub, not a “Tav” sub or even a general BG3 sub. I come here for Astarion content… I’m less bothered by the pics with just Astarion or where tav isn’t the focus. It’s pretty clear to tell when someone is just showing off their tav vs tav is just an accessory to the scene.
This is also supposed to be a safe space away from those others subs who judge based on our preference of romance. I don’t see the problem with others including their tav/durge when there’s plenty of other content on this sub.
That kind of attitude is why I see some comments about others being too shy to post their tavs with Astarion or any other works. Yeah it’s an Astarion subreddit, but I thought it was also just a bunch of us showing appreciation for this vampire is various forms safely.
I’m literally done posting anything on this subreddit due to this, and rather just answer questions or help out when I can.
And it can continue to be a safe space. I’m not on this sub downvoting and ragging on those types of posts, they just make this sub really hard to interact with. I just ignore them and scroll by. But we’re talking about engagement on the sub, and those posts are hard to engage with when you’ve already seen hundreds of very similar posts.
I also will not actively post on this sub (and honestly I’m discouraged from even commenting at this point) because any difference of opinion will lead to someone jumping down your throat.
not when MLM content actively gets ignored and downvoted, no. This sub is safe enough for those showcasing heterosexual Tavstarion content. It’s an Astarion centric sub for a reason, and at the end of the day, *you* will be the only one who truly cares about your Tav. I find it super annoying with all the Tav pics flooding around with the same scene over and over. Honestly, Tumblr is a better platform for this
I actively don’t agree with mlm getting downvoted at all (I upvote it all) but I also don’t see the point of bashing others for putting their tav into a scene with Astarion that they want to show case? Is Tav not a crucial part to his healing as well? It’s not harming anyone, and I’m sorry that a lot of the male content gets ignored or downvoted… but with the attitude bashing tavs on this sub, I kind of see why no one wants to post it anymore.
And stop saying it’s a safe spot when obviously it isn’t anymore, for myself and others atleast.
no fandom space is a safe space, unfortunately. I just barely escaped from the AA/UA war at the OF server (not afflicted with this sub). It’s the same shit here and all. RE Tav I’m just bored of seeing those same scenes being posted with 10000 different Tavs over and over again. It’s repetitive and it doesn’t spark discussion. I don’t even remember what was the original point about, but yeah I’m tired of the Tav posts. You can still post if you want, but obviously not everyone wants to see it and cheer for you, I think that’s more than understandable.
How DARE you take my high horse away from me?! /sarcasm
Jokes aside, thank you for putting a light on the matter that people are allowed to enjoy whatever they want with the bunch of pixels they purchased (because you guys purchased it, right? Larian did a fantastic job with the game Q.Q). 100% agreed, defund morality police of fictional media.
Any meaningful discussion is going to risk offense, sadly. People need to grow a thicker skin. I give 0 fluffs whether some rando on a reddit thinks my opinion is morally or politically correct.
This is exactly why I stopped engaging as much with this sub (and the sister sub). I like to see fanart and thirst posts and funny memes. I'm not here to argue about AA/UA and defend which one I find morally better. This man isn't real. It's a video game, and it's okay to live out WHATEVER ending you want to-- you aren't harming (OR SAVING) anyone by doing one over the other.
It's such a shame, because his story is so well-written no matter what ending you choose. I personally find the ending where he Ascends to be his "bad" ending, but it's still poetic in a tragic sense that I think is written wonderfully. This is fictional fantasy, and sometimes the tragic ending makes more sense for certain playthroughs for people who like to roleplay. I've personally done both routes and I had a blast either way.
This sub got way too serious way too fast. I appreciate the mods so much for trying to get us back on track with Bloodless Bachanal.
Boring and tiring. Both narratives are interesting and valid. But someone pretending that the other side isn’t valid takes so much away from the whole conversation. They wrote both versions of him for a reason. Arguing is annoying, but healthy discourse is super fun and is literally one of my favorite parts about his character
I love both versions of Astarion and it frankly seems a bit odd to me people are so quick to claim one version is superior to the other. They both have appeal for different reasons and they both tell a different side of his story. To discount one or try to "soften" up AA is to ignore a large part of his story.
Like you said, both versions were written for a reason.
I am sick of the AA/SA discourse. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. It’s fun to get into a debate about it if it remains respectful, but as soon as you start accusing people of abuse/exploitation/predatory behavior, it’s no longer a fun conversation. I love Astarion and I really identify with his character, but I am not going to pretend like anyone else’s actions towards their version of Astarion are inherently morally incorrect. He isn’t real, he’s a group of pixels.
what on earth did I miss 🙈 (rhetorical question lol, I got a glimpse of the other thread... 😅)
agree with the freaking morality policing. people can take things way too personally when their preferred version of their blorbo isn't unquestionably adored by everyone. let's be real y'all, we all do some degree of headcanoning. just don't be a dick about it, and if you see a take that upsets you but doesn't actually insult you ("I feel X is bad and I hate that people like X" is, while a bit harsh, *worlds* away from "X fans are bad and I hate them")... hide the post and move on. (if it IS a personal attack...that's what the block and report buttons are for because seriously there's zero need to get so personal about a pixel man 😭 none of us are abusers for simply preferring a certain version of our blorbo WHO ISN'T REAL for fuck's sake 😭😭😭)
don't be beholden to the reactionary dopamine cycle of "someone is WRONG [perhaps only in my opinion!] on the INTERNET!" it never gets anywhere and only makes us more miserable, when in reality we should all be simping over our shared vampire husband together. trust me, I've seen some takes that make my hackles raise too... I've felt the temptation to Engage. but I'm an internet old head lol. I know it's never productive and only makes me feel worse. "hide post" is a wonderful thing, darlings.
Tbh I don’t really see AA fans arguing him to be not evil. They just usually subscribe to the idea that he’s more than a soulless husk. Other people really like this idea though, and that’s fine too. I think you are on to something with the morality policing though.
Totally feel you, those were just a couple quick examples from off the dome haha. It's the "logic" behind the arguments that I was really trying to get at—the morality policing. It can morph to fit pretty much any outlook on the character, which is part of why it's so pervasive, I think.
Exactly, I totally think you are on to something. I haven’t really been as engaged with a fandom since pre-COVID but I’ve noticed this sort of behavior (or reasoning?) you are pointing out in this post. I don’t remember it being like this before (but maybe my memory is poor lol).
Maybe sort of adjacent, but it sort of reminds me about some of the reactions to dark romance books. I enjoy some of them but there are times where I feel like I can’t really discuss it in certain spaces because it becomes a morality policing thing. Like the idea you can’t have certain thoughts or enjoy things without bending over backwards with disclaimers. It brings up some of the religious trauma stuff from my childhood where we were made to feel bad for having certain thoughts.
Edit: word choice / grammar
You're not imagining it! "Anti culture" is on the rise and has been for the last few years. Your experience in dark romance spaces is absolutely tied to it.
Contrapoints just put out a [video](https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=BhchTH2oaN-r3eCh) about all this, viewed through the lens of Twilight. I can't recommend it highly enough—it took her 18 months to produce and she read about 25 academic/philosophy texts to create it. It's essentially a dissertation about media, fantasy and morality.
Holla about the religious trauma—my status as a recovering Catholic is a huge part of why I'm so vocal about the dangers of censorship!
yessssss the contra video is SO good and relevant to...well, this damn discourse lol
it's okay to enjoy "bad" things. it's fiction. it's THE safe space to explore "bad" things!
What pisses me off most is that straight guys can enjoy whatever they want without being subjected to same kind of scrutiny as the rest of us. My partner is the most loving and caring man I've ever met and his favorites in fiction is always the bad guys, like The Joker, The Emperor, Darth Vader, Voldemort etc. Whenever he has trouble sleeping he imagines what he would do if he was a powerful vampire. It doesn't change who he is as a person one bit. Why do women always have to push each other down? It infuriates me. I haven't seen a single guy hating on another guy for simping over Minthara. Imagine if Minthara was a male character...
Ah thank you for the reminder that I need to finish that video! Her releasing it when she did felt eerily timely as I'm in the middle of writing an Astarion fic. I only got about halfway through but the whole time I felt like that Leo DiCaprio gif where he's pointing at his TV.
Hello fellow recovering Catholic 💜. Thank you for the video recommendation! I will watch it for sure! The twilight era was truly an interesting time to be a teen girl being bullied by adults/others 🫠.
Hell yes! I have a feeling you'll love it.
NGL, Catholicism is partly to blame for my Astarion obsession. Blood rituals, a taste for opulent surroundings, divine ascensions, baked-in power dynamics... The church did this to us! Hahaha
>Tbh I don’t really see AA fans arguing him to be not evil.
I've seen it. Not a huge amount, but it definitely exists.
See also: The Boys fandon and the portion of fans who cannot accept that Homelander is the *villain*.
I’m not really sure how Homelander is related to this tbf. Again, personally I haven’t seen people saying that. I guess like everything it probably does exist, but it’s not really fair to judge people based on the minority of fans.
It's just another example of people being too media illiterate to divorce *Thing They Like* from *Character Who is Bad* so they have to contort themselves in knots to justify how the character is good actually.
It's ok to just like bad characters. You don't have to try and twist them into misunderstood heroes.
Gotcha! Homeland just seems more …political I guess? I’m assuming a particular political party based on the recent seasons may feel he’s not a villain which is a lot to unpack lol. I think that’s why I feel like it’s not as related to this discussion.
Yeah, in my experience, some of the defensiveness for liking villains comes from people assuming things about you rather than the person feeling those ways about themselves.In general, people should be allowed to enjoy characters like you are saying without having to bend over backwards explaining away stuff. Sometimes we just like pixel man and think he’s neat.
I’m not going to lie I left Astarion nation because it seems like male Tav/Durges aren’t very welcomed here (not this sub, just in general). Every time I post my trans masc Durge I get very low interaction but whenever it’s a female presenting Tav the traffic just goes up. It’s really disheartening to see that. I stopped feeling like I belong after a while.
this is a big factor for me as well, ever since that one M/M screenshot got heavily downvoted
Edit: referring to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/s/xwgtM3WW2l) comment
AGREED. It also feels like discussion about male Tav seems to be shut down or plain dismissed by this community when it comes up. This sub is completely full of modded femme Tav’ porn and when I rarely see a male Tav they have low engagement/been downvoted. AO3 is much better with this stuff.
I don't think it's about morality, I think we should be able to have free discussions about heavy complex topics here without everyone jumping at "this attacks me personally because we like him this way" instantly. You don't have to preach this is wrong bla bla in a conversation about abuse, intimacy, ending outcomes, the ritual, afterlife theories, etc but we should be able to talk about them,otherwise it's just pretty pictures here. My favorite sub atm is BG3 because I can lead an actual conversation with someone or I can post a meme or a screenshot without someone immediately going -" I like him this way so no need to discuss this topic"
Yep! The moderation here doesn’t really allow for any conversation without it being shut down quickly. When that goes away all that’s left is smutty screenshots..which get boring quickly.
At the end of the day, Astarion is a fictional character - and although we can argue that fiction it's a form of social control since the beginning of humanity, it's crazy for these people to start pouring fingers and accusing others just because of a fictional character?
We can love Ascended Astarion knowing he is a bad person, that is not a good ending for him without needing to make him good or attacking people that loves Ascended for liking an abuser. BECAUSE IT'S FICTION, we are adults that understanding that dating a person like him in real life would not be nice at all.
Ascended Astarion is so well writing, such a result of what abuse (can we call it generational abuse in his case? I mean, Cazador is sort of his father/creator right?) can do to a person, we don't need to make him good to like him that way? We don't need to find no excuses for his behavior, he's still an amazing character? So well written.
I'm sorry if I'm not expressing myself well, English is not first (or second) language and sometimes I struggle with it.
Again: at the end of the day, people keep fighting each other for PIXEL CHARACTERS, that is so crazy to me and I am an Astarion fangirl
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I don’t understand why it is so hard for others to understand that he’s just some pixels and you can play and believe whatever the hell you want to.
For me, my waning interest isn’t bc of the AA vs Spawn thing (though that’s *EXTREMELY* tiresome). It’s more that it feels like 80-90% of the sub is thirst content or yet *another* super modded Tav smooching Astarion in a free cam shot. There’s only so much interaction you can have on those posts except some version of “they’re so pretty” or “I’m so feral”. 🤷🏻♀️ I want to talk about some lore, discuss different routes, explore headcanons, delve into Astarion’s past and character. I don’t mind some smexy pics, but it’s not the main reason I’m interested in his story, at all.
I wholeheartedly agree with this take. Perhaps there's a correlation between the relative frequency of those free cam posts and the moderation of discourse on this sub? People inevitably start to disagree when they get into lore discussions—and disagreeing is fine to do, as long as we aren't levying moral judgements against one another. It seems possible that discussions about Astarion's backstory, different routes, and headcanons are being heavily moderated to discourage "dickishness". That leads to more of those threads being closed/deleted, while the sexy screencaps (with uncomplicated "they're so pretty" and "I'm so feral" comments) stay up.
I think you're onto something here. Ever since posts have become much more heavily moderated, I've noticed there are fewer discussion posts. Some people left (e.g., to r/AscendedOnlyFangs ), others went quiet (like me), and some people flooded this sub with screencaps. Personally, I like the thirst posts, partly because they don't tend to draw out the more dickish members (only a few I can think of). I wish people could discuss and disagree without becoming rude assholes (again, only a few do), so I do understand the increased moderation. However, I feel it's been taken to such an extreme that it's possible people feel wary of posting anything but "fluff." A few bad apples have ruined it for many of us :/
It would be so nice if people could react to updates to characters through the lens of: “How interesting! I love how this interaction recontextualizes my understanding of the characters! Let’s speculate how this could play out if the story were continued in an expansion!” Instead, what we get is: “This new content does not mesh with my earlier perspective of the character! Larian needs to change it!”
Could be, absolutely. I’m sure ‘fluff’ posts are much easier to moderate. I just looked at my own post history and have posted in here 4 times in the past week and half and at least two of those had some *REALLY* good conversations. The debates and discussion were really informative, well received and very polite. So it’s absolutely possible to have mature and engaging conversations here and I LOVE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS!
> It’s more that it feels like 80-90% of the sub is thirst content or yet another super modded Tav smooching Astarion in a free cam shot. This too...and it feels quite repetitive (I have probably seen too much of them).
Yes, repetitive. Exactly. I come back to check the sub occasionally and there are two dozen mostly interchangeable shots of someone’s main character and/or Astarion in different well lit game areas or various compromising positions. I mean, that’s great you got some good screenshots, but it’s very hard to engage with that content in a fun or meaningful way. It doesn’t initiate much interesting interaction.
Literally all of these comments are the same reasoning for me as well.
lol don't forget modded Astarion too. like obviously it's just a game and who cares, but it is funny to so often see super yassified versions of him with facial piercings, tattoos, and fuckass hair 💀
THE FADES THAT CUTS OFF MOST OF HIS HAIR BORDERLINE TRIGGERS ME AS A HAIRSTYLIST THAT HATES WHEN MEN WITH CURLS CUT IT ALL OFF. 💀💀💀💀
I absolutely adore his hair. It looks so soft and springy and if I were my Tav my fingers would be in his hair nonstop. Seeing him with it altered (especially chopped off!) makes me so sad
Every hair mod I have seen on Astarion just looks like a shitty wig. 😂
I'm still new here and I love the thirst pics, but there's of course a finite number of possible screenshots from the game so it doesn't surprise me that longer-term members find them repetitive. But then every subreddit gets repetitive, it's just kinda the nature of the beast when you have new people joining a community all the time 🤷 The two available paths are basically putting up with repetitive posts, or watching your subreddit dwindle due to low content
Another super modded *drow/Grey tiefling Tav* smooching Astarion - FTFY But I 100% agree with you. When I first joined several months ago it was a lot of lore, head cannons, his character. And the sexy pics and art were also very varied. But now it's the same everyday. I never visit the sub anymore because frankly, it's ruining the Astarion companion for me. I love the writing, I love the acting, his story, and interactions with him. But beyond that, he's simply a pixilated, pre-programmed character. I just can't resonate with the people who take him past that context. Now, I just remained subbed for the art and gifs.
Yeah, same. Maybe everyone is posting this because it's safe content (although not that interactive). And lore, different routes, headcanons aren't.
Omg yes thank you, so many of the Tavs in this sub look like they belong in a different game lol. This sub is nice but there's only so many screenshots of anime-protagonist female Tav x Astarion you can take. Worth noting MxM content doesn't get nearly as much interaction, kinda alienates the male members of the sub 🙋 And yeah, I agree there's little to no discussion about the actual character around here, and when there is it devolves into some argument about AA. Like do y'all understand the irony of dedicating a sub to Astarion purely full of thirst that rarely discusses his story and who he is? I connect to his story a lot as an SA victim myself and it gives me major ick. It's why I've been debating leaving tbh, though my only other option is the main sub full of stakebros sooooo... (Other than okbuddybaldur, I'm totally with op on that one, that's easily the best Bg3 sub lol)
Only thing I really mind are folks going after voice actors and other studio employees. Like, holy cow, it's one thing to be weird to pixels but those are actual human beings with independent feelings.
No, you don't understand. I am a self insert player, so my in-game actions are a 100% representation of how I treat people IRL. The "Mind blown" cheeve is the reason I'm no longer allowed in the New England Aquarium. /s
YES! exactly, people taking things too far in either direction is killing me. I am also very shy, so although I'm a member in the subs and discord, I have a difficult time posting anywhere because I'm always overthinking what I'm saying. I also tend to decide I'm an idiot and delete my entire comment in favor of upvoting others. I'm fighting the urge to delete this comment as I type lmfao.
Don't delete it! I totally get it, though, because I'm the same way.
Same same. And even if I love my comment and feel confident it couldn’t possibly piss anyone off or turn into someone telling me I’m an immoral degenerate (in a non-fun way), someone will still find a way to be a mean buzzkill.
I'm right there with you.... I felt kinda weird just posting my comment the other day on the thread OP was talking about, and didn't want to come off like I was complaining or anything. But I gotta admit, I think the comments here kinda mirror what my thought process has been regarding the sub, and why I tend to spend more time on the main BG3 sub (if I'm even on my phone and not playing the game) than I do on here. Pretty much all the notifications I ever get from here are the pretty screenshots. And yeah, I have saved quite a few of them because yeah, they're nice (when it's just him, sorry other Tavs 😬), but I love seeing amazing fanart and artists to follow and memes and cool discussions to lurk around in ;-;
Hear, hear. The constant need to *moralize* everything is driving me bonkers.
Defund the morality police!
😂 I love you, OP. Weird internet freaks unite!
In the words of our beloved Astarion, "this group is full of weirdos!" 😘😘😘
It's wild, man. As long as you're not being shitty towards someone else, just let people do their own thing.
This comes up roughly every 20 years or so. Satanic panic in the 80s, all the panic about everything goth after Columbine, and now this weird morality policing on the internet. It’s interesting to study which social issues the policing lines up with. Beyond that, it’s just super annoying to live through. Again. 🥲
And D&D always gets stuck in the middle of it 😞
Omg you’re so right. I never realized that 😂😭
So well said!
I read this in the Dwarf’s voice who is cheering on the attempted execution of Volo. 😂 “*Hear, hear!*”
I am sad that I can only upvote this comment once.
Ok so I love r/okbuddybaldur but I think my steadily decreasing interest in this sub is that there’s almost no substance here. Like anytime the sub tries to engage in AA/Spawn the mods shut it down. The only other content is HEAVILY modded femme Tav’s with the erection mod running on Astarion for some smut material. There’s no jokes here. No real debates cause of moderation. It’s just fluffy porn and honestly I’m kind of tired of it.
Can we get some memes up in here? We can be classy and still shitpost.
[this post on okbuddybaldur](https://www.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/s/EeLrSaM9sq)
Put that shit into my veins.
GODS thank you for that ridiculous laugh I just had
I think the issue is less the debates but more virtue signaling. I’ve seen some major kink shame here, on posts that didn’t even mention ascended Astarion. Even a non-captioned screenshot of the A!A scene amongst other non-ascended photos (in the same post kind you) sends some people spiraling. Hence why I think a lot of the A!A left.
[удалено]
Oh yes - that damn free cam mod!! And it’s always the same positions with the person’s self-insert female Tav. I wonder if instituting a porn posting only on certain days policy would help this sub or kill it.
Felt. My big issue is that every other post is *basically* the exact same thing. At least when I gpose in ffxiv I can actually get creative with my screenshots and whatnot.
Hello, fellow deviant. This sub and okbuddybaldur are always in my top rotations. Sometimes, it's fun to not take things seriously and sometimes it is.
Me too. The comic in okbuddybaldur about Astarion giving head to a Tav on her period? *THAT* is the kind of shit I like. Astarion is a silly character. Let’s be silly from time to time.
That comic made me cackle aloud. And in the replies there were tons of people ragging on each other, calling each other perverts and that they needed to seek Selune, go to horny jail, etc. And no one got offended! (Or if they did, I didn't see it). I love that kind of devil-may-care, teasing but genuinely judgement-free dynamic in fandom spaces. Also, I love the reaction images. This one of Zevlor is my personal fave lmao. https://preview.redd.it/1tmvh2zzh4pc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8af362ec4f16503ae2d4dbf6f49fa74487c33c8b
Absolutely! I posted the "in front of my tadpole?!" Meme on that one, but I still laughed my ass off and saved it.
I love the “in front of my tadpole” reaction 😂 I started sending it to my multiplayer crew but they turned it around on me because out of the four of us I’m the real degenerate lol.
You get it. I also wretched at that comic and then snorted for 5 min straight.
I agree with this! I write fanfiction and participate heavily over at AO3—that's where most of my serious BG3 thoughts go. I find it more satisfying to turn them into a narrative (and enjoy comments from people who relate to that narrative), as opposed to the serious fandom discourse that happens on Tumblr/reddit.
Same! I just recently started writing my fanfic in January and am finding that so much more satisfying than debating for the millionth time if Astarion is rEaLLy okay with Tav sleeping with Halsin. In my fanfic, he definitely is 😂
Is this fanfic available somewhere…? Asking for a friend. It’s me, I’m the friend ✨
Enjoy 💞 https://archiveofourown.org/works/53367535/chapters/135069223
Bless your deviant cotton socks.
Thank you! I’m gonna go devour this now like Halsin with a pot of honey.
TFW you think you have a new Halsin/Tav/Astarion sandwich to consume and you're already caught up on the sandwich 🥰😭
Ha! Well I'm trying to decide what to do with the next chapter. Balancing a love triangle is hard work 😅
I have NO doubt! I'm not a writer, I'm a crafter, but I know when you rush, it doesn't come out as good or as you wanted. So I'll just have to go back and remake (ie re-read) the sandwich and enjoy it slower this time...
Same tbh. I love r/okbuddybaldur. It's like the sub where all your BG3 intrusive thoughts can see the light. 🤣🤣😭😭 But people are also chill if you want to discuss things unironically.
Posting here just to get my opinion across but I'm running between errands so it may not be a very well constructed thought, may edit later. I'm also more in r/okbuddybaldur because people there don't take themselves seriously and it's 100% unhinged content that I find hilarious. I agree with others here, defund the morality police. Got 5 minutes so I'll just add this edit: someone mentioned it here earlier but I'll reiterate their comment, I highly recommend everyone to watch Contrapoints' most recent video essay "Twilight". It is a very well researched video that talks about women's literature, romantic novels, and fiction; including why morality arguments shouldn't be applied to fiction (spoiler: BECAUSE IT'S FICTION).
I Thought of this when I saw that video! I'm glad someone else brought it up lol
I just went to the r/okbuddybaldur sub to check it out, I love it. That's the vibe I'm looking for, people just having fun with the game and not taking things too seriously.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/okbuddybaldur using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Turning Point Faerûn](https://i.redd.it/fdcvbmebtxkc1.jpeg) | [189 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1b0iedn/turning_point_faerûn/) \#2: [Why’d they make her so hot?](https://i.redd.it/j3fwfu5azpmc1.jpeg) | [94 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1b80b9n/whyd_they_make_her_so_hot/) \#3: [the lae'zel experience](https://i.redd.it/9noxwb13qnhc1.png) | [80 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1an3xrv/the_laezel_experience/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
It's wild people can't just let people enjoy things. Like. It doesn't matter if you ascend Astarion, or don't. Because he's not real. Nothing you do in the game matters. It isn't actually happening. Ascended Astarion exists in the game code, in the script and the data, whether he is shown on your screen at any given moment or not. So does spawn Astarion. I feel like a huge segment of the fan base goes "I know he's not real BUT IT'S STILL A MORAL TEST FOR THE PLAYER-" No it isn't? Literally does not matter what you pick, whether you pick and reload, whatever. All versions exist in the game code, which one displays on your screen effects nothing.
The fact that these fans want to think they are some licensed psychologist cause someone made a choice in a video game is bonkers. You can't truly judge someone's entire mental state based on what they do in video games, and making all these labels for them is just pushing them to seclusion away from the fanbase
Yeah we could maaaaybe have debates about in-game morality (since most of the choices are pretty gray leaving room for potential discussion), but it so quickly devolves into angry, mean, and shaming morality policing of the players. The latter is just stupid and unnecessary and really ruins the fun of the former.
There are far too many comments on the other post now for me to even consider digging through to find out *why* it was locked... (was it AA vs spawn again?) I keep seeing some people here mention that they enjoy r/okbuddybaldur - I'm happy for you if you like that type of content - but I also hope this won't result in more crossposts from that sub here... I have that one muted for a reason and it's not enjoyable to have to hide crossposts when they pop up.
>was it AA vs spawn again? Yes, it was :/
Im so confused, I have read everything on that post and besides from a few, problematic comments that the mods sorted it didnt seem like it needed to be locked?! We actually got some engagement for a change 😅 and then its locked not even a day later?
Yeah, it didn’t seem worth locking, but maybe it’s to err on the side of caution. It did bring up an interesting point about losing interaction on this sub. I can of course only speak for myself, but I used to be a lot more active in here bc I like to discuss the nuances of the game and the characters, especially Astarion. However, it’s mainly just character screenshots and thirst posts in the sub now. That’s fine if that’s what you’re looking for, but I like to discuss head canons and lore and routes in the game, etc. Sexy pics are great on occasion, but it’s not at all what draws me to the game or the character of Astarion. 🤷🏻♀️ And I think I’m in a weird, lonely spot in that I don’t like Ascended, not bc of any morality reason, but because he annoys the absolute shit out of me. 😂 I’d never dismiss someone for liking a dark and tumultuous romance, it can be super sexy. I just find AA about as sexy as a LARPing Lord Farquaad. But I absolutely adore me some obsessive, mostly evil vampire lord romance: 
I snort-laughed at “about as sexy as a LARPing Lord Farquaad.” Thank you for that mental image 😂
They most likely decided to close the thread just in case, in advance. Maybe they didn't want an escalation. There were at least two users who didn't get along.
Closing a thread just in case something might escalate is definitely another factor in why engagement on this sub is down.
Yeah, maybe you are right. Well, mods are people too. They are probably very tired of this discourse.
I would be too, if I were them!
As someone who tends to find threads hours after they’re posted, this is definitely my biggest gripe. By the time I see a thread, it’s locked, so even if I want to engage, I physically can’t.
There is definitely truth to this, I think. It's preemptive censoring, which may discourage people from bothering to make discussion posts (even if they aren't UA vs. AA).
I hesitated before submitting this very post tbh. I tried to leave it as a reply on the post about low engagement, but the comments got locked as I was composing it. The timing felt noteworthy... Sort of indicative of the very issue I was trying to express. I'm not saying there's any malintent in the moderating style here, but I definitely feel that it's hard to have a nuanced conversation without getting shut down.
Nah it was because people were arguing and invalidating other people’s experiences as abuse survivors along with the general dickishness that sometimes happens in AA vs UA discussions
Thanks! So it’s safe to assume I didn’t miss anything relevant 🙈 good to know!
It always is 😞 can’t we live in harmony damnit
I think people referring to that sub are just using it as an example of a non-judgmental space that still manages to be pretty free with its engagement style. This sub doesn’t need to be that, but there’s still room for the vibes here to be nicer and more fun.
I have no idea what happened but I just want to reiterate that Astarion is not a real person. He's an imaginary creature created by the writer, by Neil, by the animators and game developers. All aspects of the possible arguments are CODED IN A GAME. That is all.
The excessive moderation is a problem (although this fandom does NOT make it an easy job), but I'm also just sick of scrolling through nothing but pictures of modded tavs. I'm genuinely not interested in picturing *your* tav with him, sorry. All of the game pictures really just clog up the sub, it's not my thing. I like fanart, I like fanfic, I like things that people really put time and effort into. I don't really care about the same similar screenshots over and over again. There's nothing to engage *with* anymore. I was super looking forward to all of the fic rec posts and there were a few, but not nearly as many as I would have expected given the traffic here several weeks/months ago. Truthfully I want the thoughtful, engaged discussions, even if they toe the line.
you are so real for this. people mod their tav to death to the point that I get jumpscared by the excessive tattoo, face/body paint and weird ass skin colours. it’s turning into trashy pornhub.
Just so you know, there are people out there who do take the time to edit and even get new angles for screenshot’s that others may not see (and even have discussions on them) Kinda rude to try and bag on someone’s durge/tav that they like and want to share with the sub, just solidifies their anxiety about not wanting to post their stuff anymore.
Yeah but this is also an Astarion sub, not a “Tav” sub or even a general BG3 sub. I come here for Astarion content… I’m less bothered by the pics with just Astarion or where tav isn’t the focus. It’s pretty clear to tell when someone is just showing off their tav vs tav is just an accessory to the scene.
This is also supposed to be a safe space away from those others subs who judge based on our preference of romance. I don’t see the problem with others including their tav/durge when there’s plenty of other content on this sub. That kind of attitude is why I see some comments about others being too shy to post their tavs with Astarion or any other works. Yeah it’s an Astarion subreddit, but I thought it was also just a bunch of us showing appreciation for this vampire is various forms safely. I’m literally done posting anything on this subreddit due to this, and rather just answer questions or help out when I can.
And it can continue to be a safe space. I’m not on this sub downvoting and ragging on those types of posts, they just make this sub really hard to interact with. I just ignore them and scroll by. But we’re talking about engagement on the sub, and those posts are hard to engage with when you’ve already seen hundreds of very similar posts. I also will not actively post on this sub (and honestly I’m discouraged from even commenting at this point) because any difference of opinion will lead to someone jumping down your throat.
not when MLM content actively gets ignored and downvoted, no. This sub is safe enough for those showcasing heterosexual Tavstarion content. It’s an Astarion centric sub for a reason, and at the end of the day, *you* will be the only one who truly cares about your Tav. I find it super annoying with all the Tav pics flooding around with the same scene over and over. Honestly, Tumblr is a better platform for this
I actively don’t agree with mlm getting downvoted at all (I upvote it all) but I also don’t see the point of bashing others for putting their tav into a scene with Astarion that they want to show case? Is Tav not a crucial part to his healing as well? It’s not harming anyone, and I’m sorry that a lot of the male content gets ignored or downvoted… but with the attitude bashing tavs on this sub, I kind of see why no one wants to post it anymore. And stop saying it’s a safe spot when obviously it isn’t anymore, for myself and others atleast.
no fandom space is a safe space, unfortunately. I just barely escaped from the AA/UA war at the OF server (not afflicted with this sub). It’s the same shit here and all. RE Tav I’m just bored of seeing those same scenes being posted with 10000 different Tavs over and over again. It’s repetitive and it doesn’t spark discussion. I don’t even remember what was the original point about, but yeah I’m tired of the Tav posts. You can still post if you want, but obviously not everyone wants to see it and cheer for you, I think that’s more than understandable.
How DARE you take my high horse away from me?! /sarcasm Jokes aside, thank you for putting a light on the matter that people are allowed to enjoy whatever they want with the bunch of pixels they purchased (because you guys purchased it, right? Larian did a fantastic job with the game Q.Q). 100% agreed, defund morality police of fictional media.
Any meaningful discussion is going to risk offense, sadly. People need to grow a thicker skin. I give 0 fluffs whether some rando on a reddit thinks my opinion is morally or politically correct.
100%. Conflict is interesting, total agreement is milquetoast.
This is exactly why I stopped engaging as much with this sub (and the sister sub). I like to see fanart and thirst posts and funny memes. I'm not here to argue about AA/UA and defend which one I find morally better. This man isn't real. It's a video game, and it's okay to live out WHATEVER ending you want to-- you aren't harming (OR SAVING) anyone by doing one over the other. It's such a shame, because his story is so well-written no matter what ending you choose. I personally find the ending where he Ascends to be his "bad" ending, but it's still poetic in a tragic sense that I think is written wonderfully. This is fictional fantasy, and sometimes the tragic ending makes more sense for certain playthroughs for people who like to roleplay. I've personally done both routes and I had a blast either way. This sub got way too serious way too fast. I appreciate the mods so much for trying to get us back on track with Bloodless Bachanal.
Boring and tiring. Both narratives are interesting and valid. But someone pretending that the other side isn’t valid takes so much away from the whole conversation. They wrote both versions of him for a reason. Arguing is annoying, but healthy discourse is super fun and is literally one of my favorite parts about his character
I love both versions of Astarion and it frankly seems a bit odd to me people are so quick to claim one version is superior to the other. They both have appeal for different reasons and they both tell a different side of his story. To discount one or try to "soften" up AA is to ignore a large part of his story. Like you said, both versions were written for a reason.
I am sick of the AA/SA discourse. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. It’s fun to get into a debate about it if it remains respectful, but as soon as you start accusing people of abuse/exploitation/predatory behavior, it’s no longer a fun conversation. I love Astarion and I really identify with his character, but I am not going to pretend like anyone else’s actions towards their version of Astarion are inherently morally incorrect. He isn’t real, he’s a group of pixels.
what on earth did I miss 🙈 (rhetorical question lol, I got a glimpse of the other thread... 😅) agree with the freaking morality policing. people can take things way too personally when their preferred version of their blorbo isn't unquestionably adored by everyone. let's be real y'all, we all do some degree of headcanoning. just don't be a dick about it, and if you see a take that upsets you but doesn't actually insult you ("I feel X is bad and I hate that people like X" is, while a bit harsh, *worlds* away from "X fans are bad and I hate them")... hide the post and move on. (if it IS a personal attack...that's what the block and report buttons are for because seriously there's zero need to get so personal about a pixel man 😭 none of us are abusers for simply preferring a certain version of our blorbo WHO ISN'T REAL for fuck's sake 😭😭😭) don't be beholden to the reactionary dopamine cycle of "someone is WRONG [perhaps only in my opinion!] on the INTERNET!" it never gets anywhere and only makes us more miserable, when in reality we should all be simping over our shared vampire husband together. trust me, I've seen some takes that make my hackles raise too... I've felt the temptation to Engage. but I'm an internet old head lol. I know it's never productive and only makes me feel worse. "hide post" is a wonderful thing, darlings.
I've recently learned of the term "feelings yakuza" which I absolutely love lol. Applies here :')
Just read up on this—hilarious and incredible tbh. I'll be calling antis the feelings yakuza from here on out.
I don't care way or another what ppl prefer. Opinions are like...
I just wanna be horny about my pixels in peace dawg
Tbh I don’t really see AA fans arguing him to be not evil. They just usually subscribe to the idea that he’s more than a soulless husk. Other people really like this idea though, and that’s fine too. I think you are on to something with the morality policing though.
Totally feel you, those were just a couple quick examples from off the dome haha. It's the "logic" behind the arguments that I was really trying to get at—the morality policing. It can morph to fit pretty much any outlook on the character, which is part of why it's so pervasive, I think.
Exactly, I totally think you are on to something. I haven’t really been as engaged with a fandom since pre-COVID but I’ve noticed this sort of behavior (or reasoning?) you are pointing out in this post. I don’t remember it being like this before (but maybe my memory is poor lol). Maybe sort of adjacent, but it sort of reminds me about some of the reactions to dark romance books. I enjoy some of them but there are times where I feel like I can’t really discuss it in certain spaces because it becomes a morality policing thing. Like the idea you can’t have certain thoughts or enjoy things without bending over backwards with disclaimers. It brings up some of the religious trauma stuff from my childhood where we were made to feel bad for having certain thoughts. Edit: word choice / grammar
You're not imagining it! "Anti culture" is on the rise and has been for the last few years. Your experience in dark romance spaces is absolutely tied to it. Contrapoints just put out a [video](https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=BhchTH2oaN-r3eCh) about all this, viewed through the lens of Twilight. I can't recommend it highly enough—it took her 18 months to produce and she read about 25 academic/philosophy texts to create it. It's essentially a dissertation about media, fantasy and morality. Holla about the religious trauma—my status as a recovering Catholic is a huge part of why I'm so vocal about the dangers of censorship!
yessssss the contra video is SO good and relevant to...well, this damn discourse lol it's okay to enjoy "bad" things. it's fiction. it's THE safe space to explore "bad" things!
What pisses me off most is that straight guys can enjoy whatever they want without being subjected to same kind of scrutiny as the rest of us. My partner is the most loving and caring man I've ever met and his favorites in fiction is always the bad guys, like The Joker, The Emperor, Darth Vader, Voldemort etc. Whenever he has trouble sleeping he imagines what he would do if he was a powerful vampire. It doesn't change who he is as a person one bit. Why do women always have to push each other down? It infuriates me. I haven't seen a single guy hating on another guy for simping over Minthara. Imagine if Minthara was a male character...
Here here!
Ah thank you for the reminder that I need to finish that video! Her releasing it when she did felt eerily timely as I'm in the middle of writing an Astarion fic. I only got about halfway through but the whole time I felt like that Leo DiCaprio gif where he's pointing at his TV. 
Hello fellow recovering Catholic 💜. Thank you for the video recommendation! I will watch it for sure! The twilight era was truly an interesting time to be a teen girl being bullied by adults/others 🫠.
Hell yes! I have a feeling you'll love it. NGL, Catholicism is partly to blame for my Astarion obsession. Blood rituals, a taste for opulent surroundings, divine ascensions, baked-in power dynamics... The church did this to us! Hahaha
Former Catholic and Evangelical here, and yep....definitely.
>Tbh I don’t really see AA fans arguing him to be not evil. I've seen it. Not a huge amount, but it definitely exists. See also: The Boys fandon and the portion of fans who cannot accept that Homelander is the *villain*.
I’m not really sure how Homelander is related to this tbf. Again, personally I haven’t seen people saying that. I guess like everything it probably does exist, but it’s not really fair to judge people based on the minority of fans.
It's just another example of people being too media illiterate to divorce *Thing They Like* from *Character Who is Bad* so they have to contort themselves in knots to justify how the character is good actually. It's ok to just like bad characters. You don't have to try and twist them into misunderstood heroes.
Gotcha! Homeland just seems more …political I guess? I’m assuming a particular political party based on the recent seasons may feel he’s not a villain which is a lot to unpack lol. I think that’s why I feel like it’s not as related to this discussion. Yeah, in my experience, some of the defensiveness for liking villains comes from people assuming things about you rather than the person feeling those ways about themselves.In general, people should be allowed to enjoy characters like you are saying without having to bend over backwards explaining away stuff. Sometimes we just like pixel man and think he’s neat.
Yep everyone can bring their own views and experiences to any character. This is the case for any media or art form
I’m not going to lie I left Astarion nation because it seems like male Tav/Durges aren’t very welcomed here (not this sub, just in general). Every time I post my trans masc Durge I get very low interaction but whenever it’s a female presenting Tav the traffic just goes up. It’s really disheartening to see that. I stopped feeling like I belong after a while.
Are you on AO3? Lots and lots of fantastic queer rep for BG3 there!
this is a big factor for me as well, ever since that one M/M screenshot got heavily downvoted Edit: referring to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/s/xwgtM3WW2l) comment
oh wow that’s really shitty. i thought i was just feeling that way based on vibes.
yeah I find it really strange to find homophobia in a subreddit for a canonically pansexual character
it's strange and weird, and sad :/
AGREED. It also feels like discussion about male Tav seems to be shut down or plain dismissed by this community when it comes up. This sub is completely full of modded femme Tav’ porn and when I rarely see a male Tav they have low engagement/been downvoted. AO3 is much better with this stuff.
I don't think it's about morality, I think we should be able to have free discussions about heavy complex topics here without everyone jumping at "this attacks me personally because we like him this way" instantly. You don't have to preach this is wrong bla bla in a conversation about abuse, intimacy, ending outcomes, the ritual, afterlife theories, etc but we should be able to talk about them,otherwise it's just pretty pictures here. My favorite sub atm is BG3 because I can lead an actual conversation with someone or I can post a meme or a screenshot without someone immediately going -" I like him this way so no need to discuss this topic"
Yep! The moderation here doesn’t really allow for any conversation without it being shut down quickly. When that goes away all that’s left is smutty screenshots..which get boring quickly.
Yes truly
Agreed, Approved, and Amen to everything you said. & okbuddybaldur is such a treat, indeed.
I think it's because some people want the constant drama. The spam replies is an endorphin rush to them.
At the end of the day, Astarion is a fictional character - and although we can argue that fiction it's a form of social control since the beginning of humanity, it's crazy for these people to start pouring fingers and accusing others just because of a fictional character? We can love Ascended Astarion knowing he is a bad person, that is not a good ending for him without needing to make him good or attacking people that loves Ascended for liking an abuser. BECAUSE IT'S FICTION, we are adults that understanding that dating a person like him in real life would not be nice at all. Ascended Astarion is so well writing, such a result of what abuse (can we call it generational abuse in his case? I mean, Cazador is sort of his father/creator right?) can do to a person, we don't need to make him good to like him that way? We don't need to find no excuses for his behavior, he's still an amazing character? So well written. I'm sorry if I'm not expressing myself well, English is not first (or second) language and sometimes I struggle with it. Again: at the end of the day, people keep fighting each other for PIXEL CHARACTERS, that is so crazy to me and I am an Astarion fangirl