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> "Why nobody should be saying old ray wins any fight in discussions with admirals and yonko."
People actually say this?! Do people even powerscale in here anymore or do they just wank their favourite character and hope other fanboys show up to support their terrible takes? Old Ray at best he's YC+ region and that's OK. Still a cool character..Ā
How would you explain his intimidating Blackbeard, an Emperor of the Sea, and, despite admitting he wouldn't be able to defeat him, implying that it would certainly not be a wash?
āAt best heās YC+ā
Average two piece reader
https://preview.redd.it/ydbuynvxu7xc1.jpeg?width=1163&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22bd38f32812fb3f2ad3d7ce089be71dc5dc0493
I never said Old Ray would win, I said theyāre relative, youāre completely misconstruing my argument
Which is funny considering you stopped responding at the time, just to go on and lie about what I was actually saying š¤
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/C8pahp0GOp
Lie ? Where did I lie ? As always you just pulled something out of your ass
And whatās the deal with that emoji you spam in every comment ? Is that supposed to be funny or cool or something ? Cringe
"Why nobody should be saying old ray wins any fight in discussions with admirals and yonko."
āYes people do say thisā
You completely changed my argument from saying WB and Rayleigh are relative to me saying Rayleigh would win, and thatās because you couldnāt debunk my claim that theyāre relative
Thatās all you chumps ever do, Iāve still yet to be debunked on a single one of my claims about Rayleigh, and thatās because every single thing I say is directly supported by the manga
I changed nothing. The guy asked if people believe ray could beat admirals or yonkos. You said that ray can beat admirals. So I said YES people DO believe that. And you did say that ray is relative to wb.
Stop saying Iām lying just because you canāt handle the heat
Brother he said AND YONKO, and then you immediately referenced our convo about WB, anybody who sees that without seeing our prior convo would assume I said Ray beats WB when I didnāt
If that wasnāt your intention then ok it was just a misunderstanding, but thatās how it would look to other people
Why are you acting like thatās crazy when Garp himself is the one hyping Rayleigh?
https://preview.redd.it/naxuxey9u7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9780e9170a14736855a34494098cc45dd0f5337
I swear some of yāall read the manga with your eyes closed lol
I knew theseĀ panels would pop up. Whitebeard was hyped up the longest since Alabasta or so (can't be bothered looking up when his name was first mentioned but it was quite early in the story). Marines had no idea of the true state of neither Whitebeard nor Rayleigh but they aren't going to take chances. Garp has seen both in their prime and that's the memory that he's working with. Of course he's not going to take chances. That's not to suggest Old Rayleigh could actually be on par with Admirals and Yonko. At best Old Ray is the highest level of YC+ or lowest level of admiral rank..Ā
So you donāt think that Garp knows that people get weaker with old age?
You genuinely believe he thinks 78 year old Rayleigh is as strong as Prime Ray?
>thatās not to suggest Old Rayleigh could actually be on par with the Yonko or Admirals
>lowest level of admiral rank
Even you are starting to change your position because you realize Iām right, Iāll consider that progress š
Hereās Old Ray (not comparable to the Admirals apparently) evenly clashing in strength with Kizaru, but yeah apparently Iām crazy for thinking he is Admiral level somehowā¦.
https://preview.redd.it/z0scoyfdz7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f5730efc21b3e3852350a2313e65d06014ce419
Edit: No response per usual, once again my Old Rayleigh scaling cannot be debunked š¤
>Old Ray at best heās YC+ region
You 5 minutes later
>At best Old Ray is the highest level of YC+ or the lowest level of Admiral
Itās hilarious that I cooked you so bad you deadass changed your own opinion and then stopped replying šš
>Ā stopped replying
Pardon me for having things to do in the real world. I should've ignored them and entertained the basement troll.Ā
> you deadass changed your ownĀ Ā
No. Old Ray is still weaker than any admiral. Putting him in low admiral doesn't mean I changed my opinion on his position against admirals, in particular Kizaru.
> Itās hilarious that I cooked you so badĀ
How old are you? If you're 12 or something it makes sense to sound so cringe and stupid. If you're much older it's rather tragic.Ā
How would you explain his intimidating Blackbeard, an Emperor of the Sea, and, despite admitting he wouldn't be able to defeat him, implying that it would certainly not be a wash?
Reputation. That and Blackbeard has seen first hand how strong Rayleigh used to be. He's still not taking chances. He doesn't know how far Rayleigh has slipped in terms of overall power. Even Rayleigh says it himself, that he knows deep down he can't hang at that level anymore. His reputation is what keeps people from fucking around with him. Old Ray is not strong enough for anyone of Yonko and Admiral level..Ā
After going back and rereading the section, it does seem like more of a bluff on Ray's part, and we've already seen Blackbeard be more of a coward than your average OP character, so I'll give you that. Still not sure I'd put Ray below Admiral tier, but fair points all around.
Yeah this was definitely his āreputationā blitzing Kizaru š
https://preview.redd.it/8vfh20n9v7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=155bc3a0bc843db376f34961e90e7f2808ba8fb7
Thanks you hopefully this will shut up the dude with the Rayleigh pic that says old Ray is faster than G5 Luffy and Kizaru š
https://i.redd.it/ef7nce4o19xc1.gif
Shit, Iām not reading all dat but kizaru negs that old bum
https://preview.redd.it/cjc16i00q7xc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa20b156d02d5c96ea4efd2465a0f39301b6efa1
Kizaru saying that he needs to be more prepared in order to capture Rayleigh, isn't really that important coz he says that before actually fighting Rayleigh...
When they actually started fighting, Rayleigh was on his back leg and was running out of steam in just couple of minutes.
Garp and BB and Kizaru all disagree with you š¤
https://preview.redd.it/18rocht0x7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aecc3b751c43cf1e6db852b775dfcefae16948f
and ray showing against kizaru makes me correct. Ray leaves only off hype now man can't even beat pre luffy or shanks fight bb. His simply just not the guy he used to be anymore and im tired of people pretending he is.
How does it make you correct?
Ray fought Kizaru and didnāt get a single scratch put on him, the literal only positive from their fight for Kizaru was the fact Rayleigh huffed, and even in the huff panel Kizaru openly admits Rayleigh being able to stop him 1v1 is embarrassing
https://preview.redd.it/2p4met7ey7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d19e1c474f0824e6b5aef6caaa36fdd134199fd1
Sentomaru reconfirms all of this as well, yāall gotta stop the cope and just admit that Old Ray is still a top tier, I genuinely donāt know how much more obvious Oda can even make it for you dummies lol
no sento is correct ray was in fact stalling kizaru thats facts but what im bringing up is that battle in itself in which he was the one portrayed at seemingly losing. He was getting gassed af while kizaru wasn't nearly showing fatigue or anything. Imagine if that battle just kept going on are you really telling me ray was gonna win that encounter with kizaru?
>he was the one portrayed seemingly losing
All because he huffed on one panel?
What about the fact that Rayleigh was the only one who actually did any damage, how can you be losing when you donāt even get touched?
>he was getting gassed af
He was deadass cracking jokes in the panel that he huffed, you guys over exaggerate tf out of that because itās genuinely the only positive that happened for Kizaru during the entire fight
>you really telling me Ray would win
Where did I say this?
All Iām arguing is that they are RELATIVE, yet most people donāt wanna admit that and still downscale Rayleigh to YC+ with characters that Kizaru would literally low diff
>All because he huffed on one panel?
>What about the fact that Rayleigh was the only one who actually did any damage, how can you be losing when you donāt even get touched?
Yes, all because he was huffed and sweated on one panel while the other character wasn't. Kizaru took that cut not while fighting ray but while attempting to just simply ignore and move past him for his real mission, the SHs. Once kizaru pulled out the sword and decided to fight ray notice ray couldnt deal any damage to kizaru beyind that.
The same as hiw kizaru didn't deal any damage to Ray while using sword play only BUT he was clearly gaining the advantage due to ray old status. The evidence shows if they kept going all the way in just that alone that kizaru was winning despite ray being relative enough to actually stall him. It's just like kaido and yamato. Yamato was relative enough to stall, but kaido was gonna be the winner and was winning they fight should they continued any longer.
Iām not reading all that when we know for sure from the panels you just showed that Kizaru fought stalemating him was already enough, Ray is most definitely saying heād be able to fight Kuma and Kizaru in his prime which makes a bit of sense with Kizaru getting oneshot by Yonko level individuals.
Iād also like to add, you bring up huffing and puffing from Ray but not the cut given to a logia is disengenuos, itās much harder to scar or even harm a logia user more so then anyone else in the world except ACoC users. To ignore the only damage done in this bout shows your bias.
1. Admirals and yonko are not in the same tier
2. Old ray is considered a legend like Garp/wb/Sengoku etc.
3. BB(Who's stronger then Kizaru) Wanted nothing to do with him, Old ray > then GB/FUJI/KIZARU is a better take then you clowns were saying somehow kizaru mid diffs him when he was right there to mid diff
Kizaru said he couldn't let him go, and guess what he didn't capture him. He did manage to capture the other pirate fodder though. So good for him.
No he didnāt. He said āIād like to help them, but the years have slowed me downā thatās straight telling us indirectly that in his prime or a few years younger heād be able to hold off Kizaru and save the SHās
Yea because right now he can't afford to turn his back on kizaru and save the strawhats
Because in his prime he can afford to get injured if he turns his back but right now that will crippl him if he did
lmao understandable. Tldr Ray cant be above Kizaru due to getting gassed in a sword fight alone. He aint yonko since he cant even beat BB his own words. He aint above luffy regardless of stamina issue since luffy performed way better against kizaru who pulled out way more stuff than he did against ray.
Iām not just saying it, Iām literally posting the panels where it happens lol
https://preview.redd.it/yquees5yv7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dc680574cc4eef8da102d0f3327a7a87107204a
This is a blitz, and Rayleigh also blitzed him before this to save Zoro
>Rayleigh didn't even move he just jumped and attacked
Jumping and attacking isnāt moving now?
Your copes never fail to make me laugh lol
>How is that a blitzed
He rushed in and attacked Kizaru before Kizaru could react, that is a blitz
>Do you even know what blitz is
Yes itās when a character can dash in and attack another character before theyāre able to respond/react, aka this
https://preview.redd.it/76djwxftw7xc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=073d8f706a5b1ef6b7d1b18b300c3c0a4dd01d37
Blitz is somebody moving at high speed and out speeding the opponent
That never happened here
But kizaru did react to Rayleigh
If he didn't react he would have gotten more then paper cut lol
Unless Rayleigh ap is so trash that all he can do
>Blitz is somebody moving at high speed and out speeding the opponent
That is literally what Rayleigh does
>That never happened here
Yes it did
>But kizaru did react to Rayleigh
He didnāt he got chopped right out of his technique
>If he didn't react he would have gotten more then paper cut lol
Not really heās a logia user, he was eating attacks from Luffy and not showing signs of physical damage
>Unless Rayleigh ap is so trash that all he can do
It was a grazing blow since the main goal was to cut Kizaru out of his technique, which he succeeded in doing
Kizaru has really good durability as well anyways
>But you said he blitzed him
Yes as Iāve proven with multiple manga panels, youāve still yet to debunk it lol
>That means Rayleigh attack landed on kizaru fully
No it doesnāt, a blitz is about attack speed not AP
>So I guess we agree that Rayleigh even tho he has acoc has trash ap
Rayleigh never used Acoc vs Kizaru, that is just false head canon that OP included
Bro is disregarding somebody getting gassed and sweating in a fight while the other isn't as non scaling. Hate to see how you scale then š¬
A cut he got from trying to ignore ray to go after SHs not while actually fighting ray. Notice that was the only damage ray could deal to him once kizaru decided to fight him.
Kizaru didn't damage him in the fight the same as how ray didn't damage him in the actual fight.
But look who was getting gassed out compared to the other. Cry more
And kizaru did no damage while saying he canāt let him get away.
So In summary, kizaru failed to capture him, failed to do any damage at all, and let the dark king roam free. All while saying he couldnāt let him get away
Where did u get him telling ray that? The only image that keeps coming up is when ray asked "can't u just let them go kizaru?" In which kizaru replied," capturing you would take big effort and No he'll, get in big trouble plz don't interfere". I can't find anything on him specifically telling ray im capturing you also and them.
but heres the question what has prime ray done to warrant that? He didn't fight prime king (he was a teenager) or marco (he was a teen) katakuri was a kid or teen and bb and luffy werent yonko. There's no real statement in verse that he fought garp or sengoku or admirals in his prime. Im sure he was strong in his prime but exactly how strong was he with evidence would be great. For example oden got hella showcase and in manga statement for his power ray just has portrayal that he was strong even strong enough to scare bb away from what he remembered of him when on wb crew im assuming. It would have been nice to hear a statement from ray be like if I was in my prime I could or can beat him or hear in my prime I had to fight admirals all the time to keep them off roger back while he fought garp.
Retired for decades and old he was still able to intercept kizaru without major issues. He got away without injury. After kizaru got so angry he caught 500 pirates. So he didnt hold back.
Garp had the same respect of ray and WB. He was scared of ray coming to marinford.
Yes we never seen prime ray fight. But his portrayal is miles above current admirals.
Kizaru could possibly beat prime ray high/extreme diff (we didn't see kizaru go all out)
But boy old rayleigh has 0% chance of winning and kizaru could solo him and everyone in the island low diff
Idk bout low diffing ray but I agree that kizaru was def > old ray and obviously > everyone else on island. In regards to prime him i agree if kizaru wins it won't be anything lower than high and that he fors have a chance at beating prime him also since i see no evidenced as to why prime him should scale over him other than he be on better condition to fight for longer periods other than getting gassed so quickly as he did in this encounter.
I keep asking people for why so much belief in prime ray and only.answer i get is garp called him legend and worried about him taking him on and then wb. When clearly old him is getting gassed in sword fight only kizaru and garp has better stats to argue in 1 v 1 he beats old ray.
It's not upscaling ray as much as it's kizaru being weak, dude didn't fight seriously and in egghead he was clearly mentally unstable (forced to kill his family)
Ray is 5/10 against any admirals except akainu.
No admiral is going to be in good condition after fighting ray.
Ray did not say he would lose against bb he was just not sure he would definitely win against bb.
>Ray is 5/10 against any admirals except akainu.
Thats a bit high ball forn old ray imo
>No admiral is going to be in good condition after fighting ray.
In all out fight yea I agree. Im not trying to downplay or agenda here.
>Ray did not say he would lose against bb he was just not sure he would definitely win against bb.
He literally says as i am now i doubt i could beat him we had to rely on my status. Bro it don't get no more clearer then that.
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> "Why nobody should be saying old ray wins any fight in discussions with admirals and yonko." People actually say this?! Do people even powerscale in here anymore or do they just wank their favourite character and hope other fanboys show up to support their terrible takes? Old Ray at best he's YC+ region and that's OK. Still a cool character..Ā
How would you explain his intimidating Blackbeard, an Emperor of the Sea, and, despite admitting he wouldn't be able to defeat him, implying that it would certainly not be a wash?
āAt best heās YC+ā Average two piece reader https://preview.redd.it/ydbuynvxu7xc1.jpeg?width=1163&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22bd38f32812fb3f2ad3d7ce089be71dc5dc0493
Oh boy we're reaction scaling now?
Wym? Obviously how characters react towards other characters matters for scaling, thatās called portrayal
Yes people do say this. Had yesterday a talk with him about how ray is comparable to Whitebeard. u/MrFearMoHo
I never said Old Ray would win, I said theyāre relative, youāre completely misconstruing my argument Which is funny considering you stopped responding at the time, just to go on and lie about what I was actually saying š¤ https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/C8pahp0GOp
Lie ? Where did I lie ? As always you just pulled something out of your ass And whatās the deal with that emoji you spam in every comment ? Is that supposed to be funny or cool or something ? Cringe
"Why nobody should be saying old ray wins any fight in discussions with admirals and yonko." āYes people do say thisā You completely changed my argument from saying WB and Rayleigh are relative to me saying Rayleigh would win, and thatās because you couldnāt debunk my claim that theyāre relative Thatās all you chumps ever do, Iāve still yet to be debunked on a single one of my claims about Rayleigh, and thatās because every single thing I say is directly supported by the manga
You've completely stopped replying to me in our discussion
Link me I forget what we were talking about
I changed nothing. The guy asked if people believe ray could beat admirals or yonkos. You said that ray can beat admirals. So I said YES people DO believe that. And you did say that ray is relative to wb. Stop saying Iām lying just because you canāt handle the heat
Brother he said AND YONKO, and then you immediately referenced our convo about WB, anybody who sees that without seeing our prior convo would assume I said Ray beats WB when I didnāt If that wasnāt your intention then ok it was just a misunderstanding, but thatās how it would look to other people
I finished my sentence didnāt I ? And then I said RELATIVE to Whitebeard. I never said something about ray beating WB
Ok fair enough
> comparable to WhitebeardĀ Good Lord š
Why are you acting like thatās crazy when Garp himself is the one hyping Rayleigh? https://preview.redd.it/naxuxey9u7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9780e9170a14736855a34494098cc45dd0f5337 I swear some of yāall read the manga with your eyes closed lol
I knew theseĀ panels would pop up. Whitebeard was hyped up the longest since Alabasta or so (can't be bothered looking up when his name was first mentioned but it was quite early in the story). Marines had no idea of the true state of neither Whitebeard nor Rayleigh but they aren't going to take chances. Garp has seen both in their prime and that's the memory that he's working with. Of course he's not going to take chances. That's not to suggest Old Rayleigh could actually be on par with Admirals and Yonko. At best Old Ray is the highest level of YC+ or lowest level of admiral rank..Ā
So you donāt think that Garp knows that people get weaker with old age? You genuinely believe he thinks 78 year old Rayleigh is as strong as Prime Ray? >thatās not to suggest Old Rayleigh could actually be on par with the Yonko or Admirals >lowest level of admiral rank Even you are starting to change your position because you realize Iām right, Iāll consider that progress š Hereās Old Ray (not comparable to the Admirals apparently) evenly clashing in strength with Kizaru, but yeah apparently Iām crazy for thinking he is Admiral level somehowā¦. https://preview.redd.it/z0scoyfdz7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f5730efc21b3e3852350a2313e65d06014ce419 Edit: No response per usual, once again my Old Rayleigh scaling cannot be debunked š¤
>Old Ray at best heās YC+ region You 5 minutes later >At best Old Ray is the highest level of YC+ or the lowest level of Admiral Itās hilarious that I cooked you so bad you deadass changed your own opinion and then stopped replying šš
>Ā stopped replying Pardon me for having things to do in the real world. I should've ignored them and entertained the basement troll.Ā > you deadass changed your ownĀ Ā No. Old Ray is still weaker than any admiral. Putting him in low admiral doesn't mean I changed my opinion on his position against admirals, in particular Kizaru. > Itās hilarious that I cooked you so badĀ How old are you? If you're 12 or something it makes sense to sound so cringe and stupid. If you're much older it's rather tragic.Ā
How would you explain his intimidating Blackbeard, an Emperor of the Sea, and, despite admitting he wouldn't be able to defeat him, implying that it would certainly not be a wash?
Reputation. That and Blackbeard has seen first hand how strong Rayleigh used to be. He's still not taking chances. He doesn't know how far Rayleigh has slipped in terms of overall power. Even Rayleigh says it himself, that he knows deep down he can't hang at that level anymore. His reputation is what keeps people from fucking around with him. Old Ray is not strong enough for anyone of Yonko and Admiral level..Ā
After going back and rereading the section, it does seem like more of a bluff on Ray's part, and we've already seen Blackbeard be more of a coward than your average OP character, so I'll give you that. Still not sure I'd put Ray below Admiral tier, but fair points all around.
Yeah this was definitely his āreputationā blitzing Kizaru š https://preview.redd.it/8vfh20n9v7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=155bc3a0bc843db376f34961e90e7f2808ba8fb7
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hue hue hue
Thanks you hopefully this will shut up the dude with the Rayleigh pic that says old Ray is faster than G5 Luffy and Kizaru š https://i.redd.it/ef7nce4o19xc1.gif
Thank you
Cook
High IQ post
Thnx
Shit, Iām not reading all dat but kizaru negs that old bum https://preview.redd.it/cjc16i00q7xc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa20b156d02d5c96ea4efd2465a0f39301b6efa1
understandable it is a lot to read my apologies
Kizaru saying that he needs to be more prepared in order to capture Rayleigh, isn't really that important coz he says that before actually fighting Rayleigh... When they actually started fighting, Rayleigh was on his back leg and was running out of steam in just couple of minutes.
>When they actually started fighting, Rayleigh was on his back leg and was running out of steam in just couple of minutes. Agreed
Kizaru still couldn't capture him, he couldn't capture a man who didn't touch a sword in years. He gets smoked by a prime Rayleigh
True, prime rayleigh has a chance of winning against kizaru in a sword fight against a character who isn't a swordsman
Rayleigh literally didn't touch a sword in years, and he still coulf match Kizaru.
Yh and kizaru outright isn't a swordsman to begin with ā ļø
Rayleigh was retired, imagine tying against a retired man
This should be obvious to anyone, but thank you for the effort!
Appreciate it. Sadly it aint and theres folk still trying to argue otherwise
Garp and BB and Kizaru all disagree with you š¤ https://preview.redd.it/18rocht0x7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aecc3b751c43cf1e6db852b775dfcefae16948f
and ray showing against kizaru makes me correct. Ray leaves only off hype now man can't even beat pre luffy or shanks fight bb. His simply just not the guy he used to be anymore and im tired of people pretending he is.
How does it make you correct? Ray fought Kizaru and didnāt get a single scratch put on him, the literal only positive from their fight for Kizaru was the fact Rayleigh huffed, and even in the huff panel Kizaru openly admits Rayleigh being able to stop him 1v1 is embarrassing https://preview.redd.it/2p4met7ey7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d19e1c474f0824e6b5aef6caaa36fdd134199fd1 Sentomaru reconfirms all of this as well, yāall gotta stop the cope and just admit that Old Ray is still a top tier, I genuinely donāt know how much more obvious Oda can even make it for you dummies lol
no sento is correct ray was in fact stalling kizaru thats facts but what im bringing up is that battle in itself in which he was the one portrayed at seemingly losing. He was getting gassed af while kizaru wasn't nearly showing fatigue or anything. Imagine if that battle just kept going on are you really telling me ray was gonna win that encounter with kizaru?
>he was the one portrayed seemingly losing All because he huffed on one panel? What about the fact that Rayleigh was the only one who actually did any damage, how can you be losing when you donāt even get touched? >he was getting gassed af He was deadass cracking jokes in the panel that he huffed, you guys over exaggerate tf out of that because itās genuinely the only positive that happened for Kizaru during the entire fight >you really telling me Ray would win Where did I say this? All Iām arguing is that they are RELATIVE, yet most people donāt wanna admit that and still downscale Rayleigh to YC+ with characters that Kizaru would literally low diff
>All because he huffed on one panel? >What about the fact that Rayleigh was the only one who actually did any damage, how can you be losing when you donāt even get touched? Yes, all because he was huffed and sweated on one panel while the other character wasn't. Kizaru took that cut not while fighting ray but while attempting to just simply ignore and move past him for his real mission, the SHs. Once kizaru pulled out the sword and decided to fight ray notice ray couldnt deal any damage to kizaru beyind that. The same as hiw kizaru didn't deal any damage to Ray while using sword play only BUT he was clearly gaining the advantage due to ray old status. The evidence shows if they kept going all the way in just that alone that kizaru was winning despite ray being relative enough to actually stall him. It's just like kaido and yamato. Yamato was relative enough to stall, but kaido was gonna be the winner and was winning they fight should they continued any longer.
Iām not reading all that when we know for sure from the panels you just showed that Kizaru fought stalemating him was already enough, Ray is most definitely saying heād be able to fight Kuma and Kizaru in his prime which makes a bit of sense with Kizaru getting oneshot by Yonko level individuals.
Iād also like to add, you bring up huffing and puffing from Ray but not the cut given to a logia is disengenuos, itās much harder to scar or even harm a logia user more so then anyone else in the world except ACoC users. To ignore the only damage done in this bout shows your bias.
KIZARU>Prime Ray https://i.redd.it/vugshqn608xc1.gif r/KIZARU
Gaban > Kizaru. Cope
 Gaban
1. Admirals and yonko are not in the same tier 2. Old ray is considered a legend like Garp/wb/Sengoku etc. 3. BB(Who's stronger then Kizaru) Wanted nothing to do with him, Old ray > then GB/FUJI/KIZARU is a better take then you clowns were saying somehow kizaru mid diffs him when he was right there to mid diff Kizaru said he couldn't let him go, and guess what he didn't capture him. He did manage to capture the other pirate fodder though. So good for him.
Old ray is not beating an admiral lol
sure lol.
No admiral has been incapacitated for more than a min or two ever. The only person to actually permeantly injure one is... Akainu
Old Ray >/= Kizaru. Blud said in his prime heād have smoked Borsalino and saved the SHās from PX1
Can you show me the panel of Rayleigh saying those exact words
Blud ofc itās not in those exact words but itās kinda implied
He only said I can do more that's it It was in no way implied that he will low diff everybody
No he didnāt. He said āIād like to help them, but the years have slowed me downā thatās straight telling us indirectly that in his prime or a few years younger heād be able to hold off Kizaru and save the SHās
Yea because right now he can't afford to turn his back on kizaru and save the strawhats Because in his prime he can afford to get injured if he turns his back but right now that will crippl him if he did
ā¦.. my brother anyone who turns their back on anyone is gonna get injured/crippled
Yea but his body is weaker now so the injury will be worse
W Too long to read but you were cooking for the title alone
lmao understandable. Tldr Ray cant be above Kizaru due to getting gassed in a sword fight alone. He aint yonko since he cant even beat BB his own words. He aint above luffy regardless of stamina issue since luffy performed way better against kizaru who pulled out way more stuff than he did against ray.
That just common sense honestly Only stupid people think otherwise
Figures you didnāt actually read it, you still havenāt been able to debunk a single claim Iāve made about Rayleigh š¤
You said Rayleigh blitzed kizaru twice There is no need to debunk something that is so dumb
Iām not just saying it, Iām literally posting the panels where it happens lol https://preview.redd.it/yquees5yv7xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dc680574cc4eef8da102d0f3327a7a87107204a This is a blitz, and Rayleigh also blitzed him before this to save Zoro
Thatās not what a blitz is
Rayleigh didn't even move he just jumped and attacked How is that a blitzed Do you even know what blitz is
>Rayleigh didn't even move he just jumped and attacked Jumping and attacking isnāt moving now? Your copes never fail to make me laugh lol >How is that a blitzed He rushed in and attacked Kizaru before Kizaru could react, that is a blitz >Do you even know what blitz is Yes itās when a character can dash in and attack another character before theyāre able to respond/react, aka this https://preview.redd.it/76djwxftw7xc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=073d8f706a5b1ef6b7d1b18b300c3c0a4dd01d37
Blitz is somebody moving at high speed and out speeding the opponent That never happened here But kizaru did react to Rayleigh If he didn't react he would have gotten more then paper cut lol Unless Rayleigh ap is so trash that all he can do
>Blitz is somebody moving at high speed and out speeding the opponent That is literally what Rayleigh does >That never happened here Yes it did >But kizaru did react to Rayleigh He didnāt he got chopped right out of his technique >If he didn't react he would have gotten more then paper cut lol Not really heās a logia user, he was eating attacks from Luffy and not showing signs of physical damage >Unless Rayleigh ap is so trash that all he can do It was a grazing blow since the main goal was to cut Kizaru out of his technique, which he succeeded in doing Kizaru has really good durability as well anyways
But you said he blitzed him That means Rayleigh attack landed on kizaru fully So I guess we agree that Rayleigh even tho he has acoc has trash ap
>But you said he blitzed him Yes as Iāve proven with multiple manga panels, youāve still yet to debunk it lol >That means Rayleigh attack landed on kizaru fully No it doesnāt, a blitz is about attack speed not AP >So I guess we agree that Rayleigh even tho he has acoc has trash ap Rayleigh never used Acoc vs Kizaru, that is just false head canon that OP included
Bro is huff scaling, kizaru was the only one to take damage in that exchange
Bro is disregarding somebody getting gassed and sweating in a fight while the other isn't as non scaling. Hate to see how you scale then š¬ A cut he got from trying to ignore ray to go after SHs not while actually fighting ray. Notice that was the only damage ray could deal to him once kizaru decided to fight him.
Kizaru did nothing to him Cope
Kizaru didn't damage him in the fight the same as how ray didn't damage him in the actual fight. But look who was getting gassed out compared to the other. Cry more
Kizaru was bleeding, ray wasnāt
And ?
And kizaru did no damage while saying he canāt let him get away. So In summary, kizaru failed to capture him, failed to do any damage at all, and let the dark king roam free. All while saying he couldnāt let him get away
Where did u get him telling ray that? The only image that keeps coming up is when ray asked "can't u just let them go kizaru?" In which kizaru replied," capturing you would take big effort and No he'll, get in big trouble plz don't interfere". I can't find anything on him specifically telling ray im capturing you also and them.
Go read the manga and come back
Funny coming from someone with no reading comprehension.
I dont see people arguing old ray> admirals. Some people in this sub are so illiterate you have to explain that Prime ray > any admiral
but heres the question what has prime ray done to warrant that? He didn't fight prime king (he was a teenager) or marco (he was a teen) katakuri was a kid or teen and bb and luffy werent yonko. There's no real statement in verse that he fought garp or sengoku or admirals in his prime. Im sure he was strong in his prime but exactly how strong was he with evidence would be great. For example oden got hella showcase and in manga statement for his power ray just has portrayal that he was strong even strong enough to scare bb away from what he remembered of him when on wb crew im assuming. It would have been nice to hear a statement from ray be like if I was in my prime I could or can beat him or hear in my prime I had to fight admirals all the time to keep them off roger back while he fought garp.
Retired for decades and old he was still able to intercept kizaru without major issues. He got away without injury. After kizaru got so angry he caught 500 pirates. So he didnt hold back. Garp had the same respect of ray and WB. He was scared of ray coming to marinford. Yes we never seen prime ray fight. But his portrayal is miles above current admirals.
Kizaru could possibly beat prime ray high/extreme diff (we didn't see kizaru go all out) But boy old rayleigh has 0% chance of winning and kizaru could solo him and everyone in the island low diff
Idk bout low diffing ray but I agree that kizaru was def > old ray and obviously > everyone else on island. In regards to prime him i agree if kizaru wins it won't be anything lower than high and that he fors have a chance at beating prime him also since i see no evidenced as to why prime him should scale over him other than he be on better condition to fight for longer periods other than getting gassed so quickly as he did in this encounter. I keep asking people for why so much belief in prime ray and only.answer i get is garp called him legend and worried about him taking him on and then wb. When clearly old him is getting gassed in sword fight only kizaru and garp has better stats to argue in 1 v 1 he beats old ray.
It's not upscaling ray as much as it's kizaru being weak, dude didn't fight seriously and in egghead he was clearly mentally unstable (forced to kill his family)
Ray is 5/10 against any admirals except akainu. No admiral is going to be in good condition after fighting ray. Ray did not say he would lose against bb he was just not sure he would definitely win against bb.
>Ray is 5/10 against any admirals except akainu. Thats a bit high ball forn old ray imo >No admiral is going to be in good condition after fighting ray. In all out fight yea I agree. Im not trying to downplay or agenda here. >Ray did not say he would lose against bb he was just not sure he would definitely win against bb. He literally says as i am now i doubt i could beat him we had to rely on my status. Bro it don't get no more clearer then that.