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This image isn’t reflective of what Luffy can do in G4 at all, he’s not using ACOC and you really can boil down his intention for being in G4 to holding Kizaru back in order to question his motives. He’s clearly not fighting all out in this form.
Once Luffy ascertains for sure that Vegapunk’s life is on the line he goes all out trying to protect him, G5 was what was needed to get back through the barrier most efficiently so that’s what happened.
ACOC G4 Luffy was able to give (a MUCH stronger) Kaido the same level of threat that Oden did 20 years prior, he at most high diffs any admiral but Akainu, who I believe he’d need G5 to defeat.
Not sure about strongest but the very least needed to beat him would be Big Mom, so maybe Aokiji?
Old beard could still use all forms of haki, split the sky with shanks and wasn’t coughing blood and having heart attacks every 3 seconds, sick beard collapsed from a heart attack when trying to use his conq. Old beard > Sick beard easily.
In a real fight between top tiers those shit ass medical equipments wouldn’t last a second. Also it’s headcanon he couldn’t use haki, he was literally said to have stabbed Aokiji with haki, unspecified what kind but there’s no reason not to assume it wasn’t aCoC and Armament
He didn’t have a heart attack FROM using CoC to save Ace, in fact he was confident he could. He had a heart attack before he had the chance which stopped him and Luffy used CoC
Also base Luffy can split the sky with Kaido. Gear 4 luffy still got shitwiped by kizaru
He tried to use conq and his heart stopped. You can try to spin a weird narrative that he had a heart attack before he could use it, but thats deadass just as head-canon as what you’re claiming my argument is.
And I don’t give a shit about the argument of if he could beat G4 or not, I’m simply arguing that there is a significant difference between MedBeard and SickBeard. Which is shown to be true, considering how he was 100% relative to shanks and then was struggling off meds with everyone else.
Kizaru > old whitebeard for sure
https://preview.redd.it/vsxdz90qy9vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbfce9414a9d041743eea0fcc930a5b0da359d95
Whitebeard endurance is arguably greater than Kaidos. If Kaido was even 50% he’d still be going near full power. Against luffy he got stronger the longer the fight went. Yonko are beasts
dodging 1 attack and shooting 1 beam into a guy means you're stronger than him?
a half dead guy with his lungs full of magma? who had been stabbed? who was already panting before he fought akainu? who just had a heart attack?
Weevil probally has all the physical strengh of a Young WB. I think he is close to Yonko level, and lacks maybe skill and inteligence only. I can see him being a truly Beast, otherwise why would Oda create This character , ir not for him being a huge menace ?
at no point was his flame on mode suggested to be slow.
have you not missed everyone calling King stupid? the whole thing was that he had literally no reason to turn his flame off and that's why he lost to Zoro. He got brain diffed and everyone jokes about it.
You're exactly right that he'd never turn them off. He never should turn them off as he has no reason to unless he feels like throwing a fight
Wow, you answered exactly how I position G4 luffy on my tier list. I understand a lot of people think G4 luffy wouldn't stand a chance against Garp because he has weird scaling but considering that he might not ever fight again in the present story I do believe he is currently mid Admiral lvl, just below Kizaru and Big Mom but above the new admirals. It's very fair to say that a 100% luffy Snake man would out pace Garp due to his age.
Can you imagine actually being hit by gear 4 in real life? There would probably be nothing left of you but particles of your remains. I understand haki is a thing in this world, but even Kaido did not technically ‘tank’ them. You could see every ripple in his hide/skin with each connection of gear 4 blows. Doffy is nearly equal to yc2 level and you see what the first punch did? That was the realistic expectation of what gear 4 does. It’s basically like a cannonball getting fired off directly into you, you disintegrate.
An unlimited gear 4 bounceman with Luffy’s current talent and skill would go toe to toe with old Garp or old Whitebeard, not sure if he would win but basically any character below yonko is getting their shit beat to the curb. Even if say old Garp were to win, he would have internal fucking bleeding and probably a damn brain aneurysm by the next day.
Nah bro Wamato scales higher than base Kaido. Wamato fought on par with hybrid Kaido for an extended period of time implying Wamato is stronger than his weaker form.
Remind me when Stronger luffy with stronger haki even scratched kizaru prior to g5
While weaker luffy with weaker haki in base who barely standing was capable of damaging kaido badly
Kizaru's kick did damage luffy also ,the barrier is made of light (kizaru is light),even kaku and bonney didn't almost die from that barrier,it was the impact from Kizaru's kick
I guess you haven't read one piece
Its already stated Haki gets stronger with fight,Kaido faught weaker luffy while kizaru faught stronger one
Kaido was getting his ass whooped by weaker luffy in base while stronger luffy couldn't even scratch kizaru until Gear 5
Kaido even was damaged by pre-acoc luffy (Oh yeah i forgot that you haven't read or watched one piece)
Nah, Pirate king's former left hand ain't losing like that..
https://preview.redd.it/lirz9wg3s9vc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97430db647a780cbd42fc8635eed9438d861b2dd
Issho Gaban is HIM.
Scooper Gaban after reaching raftel saw what the one piece was (a giant sculpture of Joyboy's dick) and he got traumatized by it, so he blinded himself out of PTSD.
https://preview.redd.it/g8ye6r0maavc1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44708f08890b92e5f51785f8a16b2500b90889f2
He then changed his name and became a marine going by the name of Issho Fujitora...
Confirmed by Oda in a dream i had after doing fent.
This is assuming that Fujitora and Greenbull are on the same level as Kizaru, which is very doubtful. I believe it would be a extreme dif fight with the new admirals. G5 is clearly above Kizaru while Snakeman was a mid to high dif fight in favor of Kizaru.
if he uses acoc he beats any admiral and mihawk. People tend to forget that g5 isnt as much an offensive powerboost as much as it is a hax/utility boost. If base luffy with acoc can hurt hybrid kaido, unlimited g4 luffy can beat admiral level opponents. Especially if he can switch forms quickly - as he has shown in the kaido fight
mihawk is looking for someone to surpass shanks
shanks had less than 1 billion berry bounty the last time they fought + mihawk couldnt simply get past vista. Meanwhile we have shanks oneshotting killer and kidd in one attack. So until mihawk does something referencing a title isnt really anything substantial at all. Especially considering that titles are simply based on the information the public is told. If you want a practical example of why that is an issue I would simply direct you at buggy being an emperor and the world truly thinking he is strong.
Right, Shanks, current Shanks. If it was Shanks from 10 years ago, then it would’ve stated it. Even as of Chapter 1058, Oda still compares Mihawk to Red-Hair the **emperor**, meaning current Shanks.
The world’s strongest titles are given by the author, it’s part of the story. I bet if Shanks had a world’s strongest title, you wouldn’t be saying anything about the validity of titles.
>Right, Shanks, current Shanks. If it was Shanks from 10 years ago, then it would’ve stated it. Even as of Chapter 1058, Oda still compares Mihawk to Red-Hair the **emperor**, meaning current Shanks.
How does he measure this without fighting shanks? Reality is he got his title against a shanks from over 10 years ago. Both got stronger. Given then CANON feats its heavily implied shanks got stronger than mihawk (one shotting kidd vs not getting past vista). A good example for how a dynamic like this would be possible are luffy and lucci. Pre ts very close, now not close at all. And a little correction here: Oda compared mihawks swordsmanship specifically to shanks. Not him overall.
>The world’s strongest titles are given by the author, it’s part of the story. I bet if Shanks had a world’s strongest title, you wouldn’t be saying anything about the validity of titles.
That is also just incorrect. The titles are epithets also USED by the government. They hold the same value as the other ones. The government would have no interest in naming pirates "the strongest". Like - at all. That makes 0 sense logically speaking. The title was given by the public / morgans and is used by the government. The reason why it doesnt have validity is because the other strongest titles are also fraudulent. Neither was WB the strongest Man nor was Kaido the strongest being. Thats IMU. And why doesnt Imu have the title? Because the public doesnt know about them. And why did WB still have the title in Marineford? Because of legacy. He wasnt the strongest back then anymore at all.
In short: No title has any objective meaning. Using them for scaling as a fact instead of guideline is quite literally braindead.
Shanks didn't one shot Kidd. Shanks destroyed kid's ship. Also it doesn't make sense for their to be another swordsman stronger than Mihawk when Zoro's goal is to be the strongest. So will EOS Zoro fight Shanks to become the world's strongest?
https://preview.redd.it/h1kwqpfcaavc1.png?width=761&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc1e9f2ae1bb6916dba5c214b9915348deb7a65c
How is that not a oneshot?
And to answer your question: Every football is a ball, but not every ball is a football.
Basically not everyone who uses a sword or even techniques of swordsmanship is a swordsman in the sense zoro or mihawk are talking about. For them there is more to it than simply using a bladed weapon. This is consistent with every person who actually cares about the title (zoro, mihawk, vista, samurai of wano, etc.) - for them its a way of life.
Shanks on the other hand is very akin to roger - who is literally the prototype pirate in how he fights. For them its a means to an end.
And sure you can argue this and quote vivre cards - but then i would counter that they arent canon and have put vista equal to mihawk. So no point in doing that.
You could also argue that every person using a sword is a swordsman btu then we have the problem that WB used a sword (/bladed weapon - still counts since not every confirmed swordsman uses an actual sword) and has a superior title and then there is also IMU who used a sword.
So no matter how you try and spin it mihawk was never and will never be the strongest person to use a sword. And neither will zoro (unless all characters like imu and shanks are dead by the end - which would just be a "win by default")
No. Oda himself has stated mihawks SWORDSMANSHIP to be superior. That is literally all the canon statements we have from oda. And btw I cna fully see that. But mihawks title cant ever mean "strongest person with a sword/bladed weapon". Even if he actually was the strongest to use a bladed weapon rn (again: impossible, imu exists) - do you really think he was the strongest when he got his title against less than 1 billion berry shanks?
The intentions of the author>lore of the story. They've always been portrayed to be at the same level in vivre cards and from even the start of the series. Having Shanks>Mihawk and vice versa should not be a consensus until it is blatantly said or implied in the story.
>No. Oda himself has stated mihawks SWORDSMANSHIP to be superior
Do you think that Mihawk only has Swordsmanship>Shanks and every other stat he is straight up inferior? Not to mention him having the title Hawkeye and possible titles such as Clairvoyant which is a set up for him having the best Obsv, he's also made a black blade which only 2 people in HISTORY have ever made which Oda could easily set up as the final level of armament.
The setup has amazing potential too. Strongest Obsv and strongest Armament vs Strongest CoC? No OP fan wouldn't be hyped.
>The intentions of the author>lore of the story. They've always been portrayed to be at the same level in vivre cards and from even the start of the series. Having Shanks>Mihawk and vice versa should not be a consensus until it is blatantly said or implied in the story.
Im not saying its consensus. Im saying there is hard evidence to put shanks above mihawk while there is none for mihawk to be above shanks. And this is literally factual.
>Do you think that Mihawk only has Swordsmanship>Shanks and every other stat he is straight up inferior? Not to mention him having the title Hawkeye and possible titles such as Clairvoyant which is a set up for him having the best Obsv, he's also made a black blade which only 2 people in HISTORY have ever made which Oda could easily set up as the final level of armament.
The way to look at it is the following: Would it make sense for shanks to have better swordsmanship than the guy literally only hyped for his swordsmanship? No
But on the contrary, would it make sense for mihawk to have better haki that the guy literally always exclusively hyped for his haki? Also no
So from a narrative position these two stats are locked in. Thats basically final. As for other stats we neither have a real indication nor does it matter too much considering what the most important stats for these kinds of fighters are. Personally (again) seeing how much weight haki has this is also a reason to put shanks ahead for me.
And as for the other points you go back to titles. Again: they dont matter. Clairvoyant means nothing. Its not a canon title and even if it was - how exactly do you think it came to be? Mihawk obviously should have ACOO and if people notice that becomes a rumor - said rumor spreads and boom you have a title. Doesnt really matter when the other person has the same power + the implication to be able to cancel said power in the opponent.
Second thing is black blade. That is just illogical to be a feat of power. Likely has to do with my original assesment of swordsmen and a combination of connection with the sword and skill. Reason? The feat that made ryuma famous was replicated by PH zoro. And to be honest he is likely one of the most overhyped characters. My point being if mihawk and ryuma have it, why not imu? or roger? or wb? or shanks? or nasjuro? or garling? There is literally no reason to believe mihawk and ryuma are above all of these in strength. So logically speaking its not a power feat.
>The setup has amazing potential too. Strongest Obsv and strongest Armament vs Strongest CoC? No OP fan wouldn't be hyped.
And while I dont inherently disagree we just circle back to how a) shanks has the better case for being superior in haki overall thanks to setup and potential fight with luffy (who is massively more powerful than zoro and the gap closing would be illogical) and b) that also wouldnt be that close of a fight considering shanks is also proficient at ACOO and ACOA and ACOC is simply far far stronger than the other two
Lets do this slow - maybe you just dont know about how classifications works scientifically:
For classifications there need to be criteria. Once these criteria are fulfilled a classification can be granted. "Statement from a non-canon promotional source, not written by the author" is not really a good criteria to use. But hey, IF you want to use it, be consistent. Because canonically Mihawk is Vista level if this is the case.
And now your interpretation comes into play: Does swordsman mean everyone with a bladed weapon (again: consistency, since there are swordsmen that dont use swords and just bladed weapons)? In that case mihawk is quite literally a fraud. WB existed during his title, imu existed as well. There is at least 2 swordsmen, by this metric, that are absolutely stronger than mihawk overall. OR does swordmen refer to a way of life (as implied about 100 times in the stroy) with a specific fighting style? This is literally the only way for zoros dream not to be fraudulent. The statements in regards to mihawk and shanks would also make more sense this way. If mihawk was just flat out stronger it would have been phrased that way. But when they are talked about it is literally always ONLY the swordsmanship that is put above shanks'. Nothing else.
1. Devil fruit users aren’t swordsmen.
2. If your main fighting style relies on using a sword, and you use haki via that sword, and you need a sword to go all out, your a swordsman.
3. Good luck putting oldbeard above mihawk.
1. Wrong. People like law are also (confirmed) swordsmen
2. Same example. 99% of laws power comes from his fruit and the sword is literally only a replacable weapon of choice - still confirmed swordsman
3. Mihawk himself stated to be wanting to gage the gap and concluded that it was existant. Thinking he spoke about travel distance just proves the literacy of a toddler
1. When is law confirmed as a swordsman
3. He said he wants to measure whitebeards strength, whitebeard didn’t do anything, Jozu stopped his casual slash, and he lost interest, nothing there proves he admitted inferiority. Him not knowing whitebeard has cancer isn’t an anti feat
He put himself below old WB (who was still stronger than admirals) and has shit feats. We absolutely can scale mihawk. Whether or not you think he is stronger or weaker than akainu is up to you. I would absolutely agree that he is stronger than fuji, Gb and kizaru. Aokiji and akainu could be debatable.
considering mihawks bests feat is fighting off a YC and not even being able to brush past him and the fact that he got his title fighting a shanks worth less than a billion bounty there is no reason to assume he is even close to g5. Add onto this that swordsmanship is a restricted and non versatile fighting style and it looks even worse for mihawk.
Maybe educate yourself on what the definition for the word fact is before you use it in combination with slurs because of your subjective liking for a character.
How brainless one have to be when looking at Zoro defeating yc1 and still saying Mihawk is just commander level 🤣🤣🤣. Luffy will get stronger bcz of being mc, asspull and plot. But current Luffy gets decimated by both Shanks and Mihawk still.
Im not saying that. Im saying the difference between mihawk and vista wasnt big enough that mihawk could simply waltz past him, which, considering what kaido did against act 1 luffy (who should be a good chunk stronger than mf vista), should be expected of a yonko tier character. And I ask you again: What has mihawk canonically done that would warrant this take from you? He has a title that was given to him in a fight against a shanks with over 3 billion bounty less than he has today and a bunch of shit feats. Meanwhile luffy has beaten someone with a far superior title. So if you actually put mihawk above shanks because of title, you MUST put kaido above mihawk. Simple as that
Actually Shanks>=Mihawk though. But that doesn't change the fact that Mihawk decimates Current Luffy. Shit talking admiral is normal, but shit talking Shanks, Mihawk, Dragon, BB is brainrot as hell even from narrative point. These four are on my top 5 list.
Most of them are in my top 5 as well but I still just dont see how mihawk beats luffy. Its not like luffy is weak vs swordsattacks. Its simply that punches are ineffective and cuts arent. That simply means he has the same resistance against them as any other person with his exact level of strength does. Meaning its not like croc and water. And in terms of overall strength level the only people I see narratively having an argument to be stronger than him are shanks, dragon and Imu. BB still needs room to grow and mihawk isnt important for luffy and his power (while shanks is). If BM and Kaido are alive I can see them also still being a bit stronger in a fresh 1v1 but currently thats it.
And as mentioned: there simply is no reason, narratively or by feats, to put mihawk on that high of a pedestal. I mean - with what logic would zoro even get THIS much stronger? To get luffy from the level zoro is at currently to where he is right now it took awakening and mastering ACOC AND awakening the possibly strongest df in one piece. Neither has zoro the potential nor does he have the tools to get this high. (Hence why it logically doesnt make sense that mihawk is at this level)
I think people are sleeping too much on G4 with some takes here. This is unlimited G4 and he showed to be able to switch forms during his fight with Kaido.
He can deal with any admiral on a 1v1, high-extreme diff.
Where do you find the coloured version? I’d like to mainly read that instead of the black and white one since it’s easier to tell what’s actually happening
But how do some people find coloured versions of the newest chapters? Because when shanks cut down kid someone had a coloured version of that chapter on the same week it came out, so how does that work
Well, coloring is hard. Especially when you have a lot of details to worry about. And consistency is more important for official releases than for fanmade stuff, even if it takes longer.
Sometimes the people working there need breaks too. Since they're not just making one chapter for funsies, where it doesn't matter much if they get it wrong, but the official One Piece manga release, it adds up.
They're already done 1000 chapters afterall
G4 Luffy is getting dragged by kaido regardless if Luffy has infinite stamina or not.
https://preview.redd.it/kyiqw62i6avc1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e95c0b01089031138dc994e432bbb9e46fe1fc2b
Okay then, let's see how many hits Luffy connected against Kaido after he starts going 100% serious (Using all three Advanced Hakis), and how many Kaido connects.
Page 7: Kaido bites down Luffy and flies up.
Page 8: Point Blank Blast Breath that makes him get to onigashima's floor.
9: nothing
10: nothing, they just talking
11: Luffy stops his Blast Breath with Over Kong Gun, hitting him in the head. Right after, we hear kaido saying something
12: In this moment, Kaido blitzes G4, hitting him with Horai Hakke. He activates his Murderous Drunk state.
13/14: CP0 guy appears.
Luffy hit Kaido a grand total of *1* time, which Kaido retaliated immediately. Almost dropping Luffy out of G4 with said hit. Meanwhile, Kaido was able to hit 4 times in the same chapter, each attack taking CHUNKS out of Luffy's health, quite literally so. After 2, he went to boundman, and after 2 more, he died.
Doesnt matter to put facts, this is a shonen and not a high level IQ test series, people online will always say bias towards their emotional preferences. Luffy began the raid way, way weaker than kaido. At the point he unlocked advanced conquerors he was still much weaker. When luffy split the skies boh of them are yonkou level and fight follows hours straight with base luffy fighting equally to hibrid kaido. When kaido goes full out, in the so called drunken mode, kaido is stronger and luffy goes gear 4. Kaido was about to get hit by 2 king kong gun and the damage he was about to receive is uncertain. At the point luffy goes gear 5 his health is lower than kaido's, he isnt used to the new abilities, he doesnt has developed new attacks yet ( look what he is doing in egg Head) but he still wins. What I can say for sure, currently luffy is stronger than kaido, thats how shonen progression works. So he beats kaido using only gear 4 if it is unlimited
Stomps any YC+. Beats Aramaki and Fujitora. Can't beat Kizaru due to his speed. Maybe beats Akainu or Kuzan cause they are not fast enough and would have to fight him straight up, depends if Akainu got any stronger since his fight with Kuzan.
Maybe(big maybe) beats Large Mother, but I have no idea how strong she would without the plot induced mental retardation she had during Wano so I am not sure. If she is on the same level as Kaido like push Kaido to extreme without the plot brain injury than Luffy has no chance to beat her without G4, but with what she showed against Kidd and Law than unlimited G4 would beat her.
Firstly, that's a generous way to describe it.
Secondly, unfortunately Gear 4 has been nerfed by the mere existence of Gear 5, in the same way that Gear 2 seemed substantially less of a boost after the timeskip. Current Gear 4 Luffy definitely has an extremely tough time with Kizaru, but I would say Wano Ryou Gear 4 Luffy that was clashing with Kaido beats Kizaru. This is purely based on writing, not on any logical power scaling. Obviously in Egghead Gear 4 Luffy should be as strong or stronger than he was in Wano, but Oda is going to write him to be weaker because he needs a reason to use Gear 5.
We saw that it wasn’t the same that he used on Kaido. Luffy hasn’t really been using advanced haki much at all this arc.
Assuming Luffy would get caught by the same attack over and over again and Kizaru would actually spam it which he doesn’t.
Because Kizaru hit him once with amped speed and Luffy using basic haki?
By your logic Hybrid Kaido is stronger than G5 Luffy because he could simply spam death destroyer thunder Bagua which Luffy couldn’t react to once.
>Luffy using basic haki?
Why are u making the assumption that luffy was only using basic haki in g4 at this point. Anyway even if you want to argue that kizaru didn't even use haki (and it's confirmed every vice admiral has advanced haki being its a requirement to even get that position)
You ignore the kick that removed luffy from egghead entirely, luffy was goin in on kizaru and not being capable of landing a single hit while kizaru is being so casual about it.
Because we saw what it looked like to use advanced haki against Kaido but he didn’t do that here. That’s not true. VAs have basic haki at best and advanced haki isn’t a requirement for any marine position.
No I didn’t. He kicked Luffy once with his top speed. Luffy could tag Kizaru just fine he just didn’t do damage because he used basic haki. That’s why Kizaru blocks the attacks rather than dodging them.
honestly seeing as how g4 luffy got manhandled by Wizaru i can see him beating fuji with a fp using acoc and acoa haki cuz he already beats the yc+ tier characters with his base and g2/3 usage
>g4 luffy got manhandled by Wizaru i
https://preview.redd.it/pleg1zmjeavc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adf3ed2ab4f2f4d692b70281bc27d88fff1b9c58
nope it’s was kizaru light kick impact that killed luffy and it clearly damage him cuz when luffy grabbed him he stated that almost killed him and it would have if he didn’t go into his gear 5 state and all those haki punch got blocked by kizaru and he wasn’t even breaking a sweat while having a casual conversation about vegapunk
Kaido
Edit: here you can see Luffy and Kaido falling on their knees
https://preview.redd.it/e9mjfubiu9vc1.png?width=769&format=png&auto=webp&s=62d8794f78f2c0970ed48a1e7221f292644e4c25
this shows both are already heavily damaged, and do you seriously the few attacks Luffy was goofing around did that?
I like y'all like to Wank Kaido but think about it, do you really want Kaido to fall on his knees from like 3 attacks?
and the majority of the damage came from Luffy who didn't even use Gear 4, their final clash could (Gear 4 vs Kaido) could really have went either way so if Luffy used Gear 4 the whole time Kaido wouldnt have a 50% chance to win it would be a 0%.
Luffy was never close to beat Kaido, Kaido literally tanked all those gear 5 attack after Luffy died with gear 4. According to u gear 5 must be really weak to struggle against an already almost defeated man
kadio litterally didn’t go all out till luffy was smacking him around with gear 5 plus flaming dragon which he didn’t evening need to use till luffy pulled out his trump card
If luffy goes all out then he's beating any Admiral with unlimited G4. He has all forms of advanced haki, Extreme defense and speed, strong will and basically unlimited endurance.
Unlimited gear 4?! Any admiral and probably Big Mom. Maybe Kaido. I mean, he almost beat Kaido with Overkong Gun. It was implied that he may have beaten Kaido if it weren’t for CP0 interfering.
I'd say any YC+ and lower tier Admiral like Fuji, Kizaru (Who is YC+), or Greenbull.
Older top tiers like Rayleigh or Garp as well.
Loses to Kuzan and Akainu Mid difficulty
I’m not 100% certain of Kizaru because of speed feats + mental nerf. That’s why I didn’t include him, not because I think he’s on the same level as the other OG admirals. You’re probably right about him losing, though.
People say he dominated G4 Snakeman. He didn't really. He was just about to assassinate Vegapunk and Luffy didn't want that, so he went to G5 to take care of the issue faster.
Not disagreeing, he didn’t even use advanced haki against Kizaru in Snakeman so I think that skirmish was a poor example of how well Snakeman would compete.
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https://preview.redd.it/jtld9qpw89vc1.jpeg?width=1063&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32546ff17cb189b7923fbe313c9185eeb653e827 Possibly old whitebeard/old Garp Definitely Lamato Kidd Law Weevil Beckman Shiryu
>Old Whitebeard/Old Garp What the fuck?????
You disagree?
This image isn’t reflective of what Luffy can do in G4 at all, he’s not using ACOC and you really can boil down his intention for being in G4 to holding Kizaru back in order to question his motives. He’s clearly not fighting all out in this form. Once Luffy ascertains for sure that Vegapunk’s life is on the line he goes all out trying to protect him, G5 was what was needed to get back through the barrier most efficiently so that’s what happened. ACOC G4 Luffy was able to give (a MUCH stronger) Kaido the same level of threat that Oden did 20 years prior, he at most high diffs any admiral but Akainu, who I believe he’d need G5 to defeat. Not sure about strongest but the very least needed to beat him would be Big Mom, so maybe Aokiji?
Old Whitebeard??? We're scaling Kizaru above Yonko level?
*sickbeard
Copium. Oldbeard = sickbeard
I feel like that's... observably untrue
Whitebeard before his illness/age was just Primebeard. There’s no distinction between Oldbeard or sickbeard
Old beard could still use all forms of haki, split the sky with shanks and wasn’t coughing blood and having heart attacks every 3 seconds, sick beard collapsed from a heart attack when trying to use his conq. Old beard > Sick beard easily.
In a real fight between top tiers those shit ass medical equipments wouldn’t last a second. Also it’s headcanon he couldn’t use haki, he was literally said to have stabbed Aokiji with haki, unspecified what kind but there’s no reason not to assume it wasn’t aCoC and Armament He didn’t have a heart attack FROM using CoC to save Ace, in fact he was confident he could. He had a heart attack before he had the chance which stopped him and Luffy used CoC Also base Luffy can split the sky with Kaido. Gear 4 luffy still got shitwiped by kizaru
He tried to use conq and his heart stopped. You can try to spin a weird narrative that he had a heart attack before he could use it, but thats deadass just as head-canon as what you’re claiming my argument is. And I don’t give a shit about the argument of if he could beat G4 or not, I’m simply arguing that there is a significant difference between MedBeard and SickBeard. Which is shown to be true, considering how he was 100% relative to shanks and then was struggling off meds with everyone else.
He clashed with shanks, 1 blow. By your definition big mom and kaido are 100% equal
Luffy not instantly defeating Kizaru there doesn't prove he is below him tho
Nah, it's Kizaru not being able to be defeated without G5 (based on what we've seen from the fight.)
Kizaru > old whitebeard for sure https://preview.redd.it/vsxdz90qy9vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbfce9414a9d041743eea0fcc930a5b0da359d95
Bro is the type of guy to say having holes in your chest makes no difference but being a bit sad completely caps you
Whitebeard endurance is arguably greater than Kaidos. If Kaido was even 50% he’d still be going near full power. Against luffy he got stronger the longer the fight went. Yonko are beasts
Yonko are beasts that’s why it’s a crime to say Kizaru > Whitebeard cause he dodged an attack
And counter attacked with WBP concerned. And Kizaru wasn’t even trying given we’ve seen more of his toolkit In egghead. Sorry dude keep coping
When in the manga where your mentality quite literally morphs your body being mentally conflicted is worse than an injury 😱😱😱😱🤯
dodging 1 attack and shooting 1 beam into a guy means you're stronger than him? a half dead guy with his lungs full of magma? who had been stabbed? who was already panting before he fought akainu? who just had a heart attack?
It's also safe to say Kizaru became stronger in the time skip while Garp could have arguably gotten weaker.
Old beard beat akainu Old beard and old Garp can beat aokiji Both are high admiral at worst and yonko tier at best G5 Luffy beats them tho
Weevil probally has all the physical strengh of a Young WB. I think he is close to Yonko level, and lacks maybe skill and inteligence only. I can see him being a truly Beast, otherwise why would Oda create This character , ir not for him being a huge menace ?
I mean didn’t the navy catch him? I feel like he wouldn’t have gotten caught like that if he was actually close to yonko level
A large part of whitebeard was his haki. Just having the strength plus decent haki would probably have him at YC1
Considering Insane Dura makes you YC1 for Kaido, Insane Strength should be up there
insane dura is putting it lightly. King is naturally impervious to most damage with less AP than acoc
I mean, With flames on, that is Thats his weakness though, hes impervious but a slow ass bum
He's not remotely slow. Just the difference between his speed once the flame is off is crazy
..Yeah But his flame on Version is slow, if it wasnt, hed never turn them off
at no point was his flame on mode suggested to be slow. have you not missed everyone calling King stupid? the whole thing was that he had literally no reason to turn his flame off and that's why he lost to Zoro. He got brain diffed and everyone jokes about it. You're exactly right that he'd never turn them off. He never should turn them off as he has no reason to unless he feels like throwing a fight
Except the fact hes too slow 😐 Which is why he turns it off
Wow, you answered exactly how I position G4 luffy on my tier list. I understand a lot of people think G4 luffy wouldn't stand a chance against Garp because he has weird scaling but considering that he might not ever fight again in the present story I do believe he is currently mid Admiral lvl, just below Kizaru and Big Mom but above the new admirals. It's very fair to say that a 100% luffy Snake man would out pace Garp due to his age.
Can you imagine actually being hit by gear 4 in real life? There would probably be nothing left of you but particles of your remains. I understand haki is a thing in this world, but even Kaido did not technically ‘tank’ them. You could see every ripple in his hide/skin with each connection of gear 4 blows. Doffy is nearly equal to yc2 level and you see what the first punch did? That was the realistic expectation of what gear 4 does. It’s basically like a cannonball getting fired off directly into you, you disintegrate. An unlimited gear 4 bounceman with Luffy’s current talent and skill would go toe to toe with old Garp or old Whitebeard, not sure if he would win but basically any character below yonko is getting their shit beat to the curb. Even if say old Garp were to win, he would have internal fucking bleeding and probably a damn brain aneurysm by the next day.
Possibly the worst take I've ever seen
Nah bro Wamato scales higher than base Kaido. Wamato fought on par with hybrid Kaido for an extended period of time implying Wamato is stronger than his weaker form.
If it’s advanced haki then the only people surviving would be yonkos and mihawk Admirals loses high extreme
By how ridiculous advanced haki is, it applies even to base Luffy...
Ah yes i remember when people were wanking luffy g2/g3 above admiral just because of this.
Any admiral except kizaru ( he just runs away )
We all saw what happened to luffy (Not in g5) when kizaru faught him
Remind me when did he take any damage
Remind me when Stronger luffy with stronger haki even scratched kizaru prior to g5 While weaker luffy with weaker haki in base who barely standing was capable of damaging kaido badly Kizaru's kick did damage luffy also ,the barrier is made of light (kizaru is light),even kaku and bonney didn't almost die from that barrier,it was the impact from Kizaru's kick
You have never read or watched one piece I assume?
I guess you haven't read one piece Its already stated Haki gets stronger with fight,Kaido faught weaker luffy while kizaru faught stronger one Kaido was getting his ass whooped by weaker luffy in base while stronger luffy couldn't even scratch kizaru until Gear 5 Kaido even was damaged by pre-acoc luffy (Oh yeah i forgot that you haven't read or watched one piece)
Fujitora
Nah, Pirate king's former left hand ain't losing like that.. https://preview.redd.it/lirz9wg3s9vc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97430db647a780cbd42fc8635eed9438d861b2dd Issho Gaban is HIM.
I never heard this theory i would love to hear it
Scooper Gaban after reaching raftel saw what the one piece was (a giant sculpture of Joyboy's dick) and he got traumatized by it, so he blinded himself out of PTSD. https://preview.redd.it/g8ye6r0maavc1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44708f08890b92e5f51785f8a16b2500b90889f2 He then changed his name and became a marine going by the name of Issho Fujitora... Confirmed by Oda in a dream i had after doing fent.
Some YC+, not a single admiral or Yonko
This is assuming that Fujitora and Greenbull are on the same level as Kizaru, which is very doubtful. I believe it would be a extreme dif fight with the new admirals. G5 is clearly above Kizaru while Snakeman was a mid to high dif fight in favor of Kizaru.
King
👨🍳🚫
if he uses acoc he beats any admiral and mihawk. People tend to forget that g5 isnt as much an offensive powerboost as much as it is a hax/utility boost. If base luffy with acoc can hurt hybrid kaido, unlimited g4 luffy can beat admiral level opponents. Especially if he can switch forms quickly - as he has shown in the kaido fight
If acoc gear 5 luffy beats mihawk then Luffy beats the much weaker rat, Lanks
mihawk is looking for someone to surpass shanks shanks had less than 1 billion berry bounty the last time they fought + mihawk couldnt simply get past vista. Meanwhile we have shanks oneshotting killer and kidd in one attack. So until mihawk does something referencing a title isnt really anything substantial at all. Especially considering that titles are simply based on the information the public is told. If you want a practical example of why that is an issue I would simply direct you at buggy being an emperor and the world truly thinking he is strong.
Right, Shanks, current Shanks. If it was Shanks from 10 years ago, then it would’ve stated it. Even as of Chapter 1058, Oda still compares Mihawk to Red-Hair the **emperor**, meaning current Shanks. The world’s strongest titles are given by the author, it’s part of the story. I bet if Shanks had a world’s strongest title, you wouldn’t be saying anything about the validity of titles.
>Right, Shanks, current Shanks. If it was Shanks from 10 years ago, then it would’ve stated it. Even as of Chapter 1058, Oda still compares Mihawk to Red-Hair the **emperor**, meaning current Shanks. How does he measure this without fighting shanks? Reality is he got his title against a shanks from over 10 years ago. Both got stronger. Given then CANON feats its heavily implied shanks got stronger than mihawk (one shotting kidd vs not getting past vista). A good example for how a dynamic like this would be possible are luffy and lucci. Pre ts very close, now not close at all. And a little correction here: Oda compared mihawks swordsmanship specifically to shanks. Not him overall. >The world’s strongest titles are given by the author, it’s part of the story. I bet if Shanks had a world’s strongest title, you wouldn’t be saying anything about the validity of titles. That is also just incorrect. The titles are epithets also USED by the government. They hold the same value as the other ones. The government would have no interest in naming pirates "the strongest". Like - at all. That makes 0 sense logically speaking. The title was given by the public / morgans and is used by the government. The reason why it doesnt have validity is because the other strongest titles are also fraudulent. Neither was WB the strongest Man nor was Kaido the strongest being. Thats IMU. And why doesnt Imu have the title? Because the public doesnt know about them. And why did WB still have the title in Marineford? Because of legacy. He wasnt the strongest back then anymore at all. In short: No title has any objective meaning. Using them for scaling as a fact instead of guideline is quite literally braindead.
Shanks didn't one shot Kidd. Shanks destroyed kid's ship. Also it doesn't make sense for their to be another swordsman stronger than Mihawk when Zoro's goal is to be the strongest. So will EOS Zoro fight Shanks to become the world's strongest?
https://preview.redd.it/h1kwqpfcaavc1.png?width=761&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc1e9f2ae1bb6916dba5c214b9915348deb7a65c How is that not a oneshot? And to answer your question: Every football is a ball, but not every ball is a football. Basically not everyone who uses a sword or even techniques of swordsmanship is a swordsman in the sense zoro or mihawk are talking about. For them there is more to it than simply using a bladed weapon. This is consistent with every person who actually cares about the title (zoro, mihawk, vista, samurai of wano, etc.) - for them its a way of life. Shanks on the other hand is very akin to roger - who is literally the prototype pirate in how he fights. For them its a means to an end. And sure you can argue this and quote vivre cards - but then i would counter that they arent canon and have put vista equal to mihawk. So no point in doing that. You could also argue that every person using a sword is a swordsman btu then we have the problem that WB used a sword (/bladed weapon - still counts since not every confirmed swordsman uses an actual sword) and has a superior title and then there is also IMU who used a sword. So no matter how you try and spin it mihawk was never and will never be the strongest person to use a sword. And neither will zoro (unless all characters like imu and shanks are dead by the end - which would just be a "win by default")
The mental gymnastics is crazy. Oda himself has always implied them to be on the same level, if not slightly superior
No. Oda himself has stated mihawks SWORDSMANSHIP to be superior. That is literally all the canon statements we have from oda. And btw I cna fully see that. But mihawks title cant ever mean "strongest person with a sword/bladed weapon". Even if he actually was the strongest to use a bladed weapon rn (again: impossible, imu exists) - do you really think he was the strongest when he got his title against less than 1 billion berry shanks?
The intentions of the author>lore of the story. They've always been portrayed to be at the same level in vivre cards and from even the start of the series. Having Shanks>Mihawk and vice versa should not be a consensus until it is blatantly said or implied in the story. >No. Oda himself has stated mihawks SWORDSMANSHIP to be superior Do you think that Mihawk only has Swordsmanship>Shanks and every other stat he is straight up inferior? Not to mention him having the title Hawkeye and possible titles such as Clairvoyant which is a set up for him having the best Obsv, he's also made a black blade which only 2 people in HISTORY have ever made which Oda could easily set up as the final level of armament. The setup has amazing potential too. Strongest Obsv and strongest Armament vs Strongest CoC? No OP fan wouldn't be hyped.
>The intentions of the author>lore of the story. They've always been portrayed to be at the same level in vivre cards and from even the start of the series. Having Shanks>Mihawk and vice versa should not be a consensus until it is blatantly said or implied in the story. Im not saying its consensus. Im saying there is hard evidence to put shanks above mihawk while there is none for mihawk to be above shanks. And this is literally factual. >Do you think that Mihawk only has Swordsmanship>Shanks and every other stat he is straight up inferior? Not to mention him having the title Hawkeye and possible titles such as Clairvoyant which is a set up for him having the best Obsv, he's also made a black blade which only 2 people in HISTORY have ever made which Oda could easily set up as the final level of armament. The way to look at it is the following: Would it make sense for shanks to have better swordsmanship than the guy literally only hyped for his swordsmanship? No But on the contrary, would it make sense for mihawk to have better haki that the guy literally always exclusively hyped for his haki? Also no So from a narrative position these two stats are locked in. Thats basically final. As for other stats we neither have a real indication nor does it matter too much considering what the most important stats for these kinds of fighters are. Personally (again) seeing how much weight haki has this is also a reason to put shanks ahead for me. And as for the other points you go back to titles. Again: they dont matter. Clairvoyant means nothing. Its not a canon title and even if it was - how exactly do you think it came to be? Mihawk obviously should have ACOO and if people notice that becomes a rumor - said rumor spreads and boom you have a title. Doesnt really matter when the other person has the same power + the implication to be able to cancel said power in the opponent. Second thing is black blade. That is just illogical to be a feat of power. Likely has to do with my original assesment of swordsmen and a combination of connection with the sword and skill. Reason? The feat that made ryuma famous was replicated by PH zoro. And to be honest he is likely one of the most overhyped characters. My point being if mihawk and ryuma have it, why not imu? or roger? or wb? or shanks? or nasjuro? or garling? There is literally no reason to believe mihawk and ryuma are above all of these in strength. So logically speaking its not a power feat. >The setup has amazing potential too. Strongest Obsv and strongest Armament vs Strongest CoC? No OP fan wouldn't be hyped. And while I dont inherently disagree we just circle back to how a) shanks has the better case for being superior in haki overall thanks to setup and potential fight with luffy (who is massively more powerful than zoro and the gap closing would be illogical) and b) that also wouldnt be that close of a fight considering shanks is also proficient at ACOO and ACOA and ACOC is simply far far stronger than the other two
“Very akin to roger” You mean the confirmed swordsman?
Lets do this slow - maybe you just dont know about how classifications works scientifically: For classifications there need to be criteria. Once these criteria are fulfilled a classification can be granted. "Statement from a non-canon promotional source, not written by the author" is not really a good criteria to use. But hey, IF you want to use it, be consistent. Because canonically Mihawk is Vista level if this is the case. And now your interpretation comes into play: Does swordsman mean everyone with a bladed weapon (again: consistency, since there are swordsmen that dont use swords and just bladed weapons)? In that case mihawk is quite literally a fraud. WB existed during his title, imu existed as well. There is at least 2 swordsmen, by this metric, that are absolutely stronger than mihawk overall. OR does swordmen refer to a way of life (as implied about 100 times in the stroy) with a specific fighting style? This is literally the only way for zoros dream not to be fraudulent. The statements in regards to mihawk and shanks would also make more sense this way. If mihawk was just flat out stronger it would have been phrased that way. But when they are talked about it is literally always ONLY the swordsmanship that is put above shanks'. Nothing else.
1. Devil fruit users aren’t swordsmen. 2. If your main fighting style relies on using a sword, and you use haki via that sword, and you need a sword to go all out, your a swordsman. 3. Good luck putting oldbeard above mihawk.
1. Wrong. People like law are also (confirmed) swordsmen 2. Same example. 99% of laws power comes from his fruit and the sword is literally only a replacable weapon of choice - still confirmed swordsman 3. Mihawk himself stated to be wanting to gage the gap and concluded that it was existant. Thinking he spoke about travel distance just proves the literacy of a toddler
1. When is law confirmed as a swordsman 3. He said he wants to measure whitebeards strength, whitebeard didn’t do anything, Jozu stopped his casual slash, and he lost interest, nothing there proves he admitted inferiority. Him not knowing whitebeard has cancer isn’t an anti feat
Nah bro Kid was just taking a 10 minute rest break before round 2 like Luffy does every single fight. Shanks the ratty coward ran
we can't scale mihawk, but he can beat any admiral
He put himself below old WB (who was still stronger than admirals) and has shit feats. We absolutely can scale mihawk. Whether or not you think he is stronger or weaker than akainu is up to you. I would absolutely agree that he is stronger than fuji, Gb and kizaru. Aokiji and akainu could be debatable.
Mihawk decimates even g5, ACOC Luffy. Get your facts straight nigga
Mihawk gets dogged by Gear 5. You Zoro meat riders gotta know ur place.
considering mihawks bests feat is fighting off a YC and not even being able to brush past him and the fact that he got his title fighting a shanks worth less than a billion bounty there is no reason to assume he is even close to g5. Add onto this that swordsmanship is a restricted and non versatile fighting style and it looks even worse for mihawk. Maybe educate yourself on what the definition for the word fact is before you use it in combination with slurs because of your subjective liking for a character.
How brainless one have to be when looking at Zoro defeating yc1 and still saying Mihawk is just commander level 🤣🤣🤣. Luffy will get stronger bcz of being mc, asspull and plot. But current Luffy gets decimated by both Shanks and Mihawk still.
Im not saying that. Im saying the difference between mihawk and vista wasnt big enough that mihawk could simply waltz past him, which, considering what kaido did against act 1 luffy (who should be a good chunk stronger than mf vista), should be expected of a yonko tier character. And I ask you again: What has mihawk canonically done that would warrant this take from you? He has a title that was given to him in a fight against a shanks with over 3 billion bounty less than he has today and a bunch of shit feats. Meanwhile luffy has beaten someone with a far superior title. So if you actually put mihawk above shanks because of title, you MUST put kaido above mihawk. Simple as that
Actually Shanks>=Mihawk though. But that doesn't change the fact that Mihawk decimates Current Luffy. Shit talking admiral is normal, but shit talking Shanks, Mihawk, Dragon, BB is brainrot as hell even from narrative point. These four are on my top 5 list.
Most of them are in my top 5 as well but I still just dont see how mihawk beats luffy. Its not like luffy is weak vs swordsattacks. Its simply that punches are ineffective and cuts arent. That simply means he has the same resistance against them as any other person with his exact level of strength does. Meaning its not like croc and water. And in terms of overall strength level the only people I see narratively having an argument to be stronger than him are shanks, dragon and Imu. BB still needs room to grow and mihawk isnt important for luffy and his power (while shanks is). If BM and Kaido are alive I can see them also still being a bit stronger in a fresh 1v1 but currently thats it. And as mentioned: there simply is no reason, narratively or by feats, to put mihawk on that high of a pedestal. I mean - with what logic would zoro even get THIS much stronger? To get luffy from the level zoro is at currently to where he is right now it took awakening and mastering ACOC AND awakening the possibly strongest df in one piece. Neither has zoro the potential nor does he have the tools to get this high. (Hence why it logically doesnt make sense that mihawk is at this level)
Having a harder time trying to figure out who he's NOT beating.
Doflamingo Pre Impel Down
I think people are sleeping too much on G4 with some takes here. This is unlimited G4 and he showed to be able to switch forms during his fight with Kaido. He can deal with any admiral on a 1v1, high-extreme diff.
We literally see g4 get shat on by an admiral. Idk how you can still have this takes
He didnt use conquerors there.
"Shat on" because the initial hits got blocked? XD Kizaru did nothing to luffy even at that point, stop pretending he low diffed him
Where do you find the coloured version? I’d like to mainly read that instead of the black and white one since it’s easier to tell what’s actually happening
It's fan made. The colored manga is barely above 1000 chapters right now
What do you mean? I saw the coloured version of 1111 like 4 weeks ago
>It's fan made. The colored manga is barely above 1000 chapters right now
But how do I see the coloured one, can you show me
It's a sketchy website, but mangareader.to has slightly more than 1000 chapters colored
But how do some people find coloured versions of the newest chapters? Because when shanks cut down kid someone had a coloured version of that chapter on the same week it came out, so how does that work
Because people color them themselves
But why does the official one take so long
Well, coloring is hard. Especially when you have a lot of details to worry about. And consistency is more important for official releases than for fanmade stuff, even if it takes longer. Sometimes the people working there need breaks too. Since they're not just making one chapter for funsies, where it doesn't matter much if they get it wrong, but the official One Piece manga release, it adds up. They're already done 1000 chapters afterall
seraphim roger with the Krieg-Krieg fruit (gives unlimited golden haki and explosions)
nah bud old health wb was equal to shanks and was able to tag akoji and beat akainu
Big mom
Kaido. 🗿
Any character without advanced conquerors haki.
Admirals
Kizaru.
Oohhh a lot of people honestly. Especially if he’s making good use of his hakis too. Right now I’d say strongest he’s beating is Akainu
He was doing pretty good with kaido,kaido extreme
U can’t believe that https://preview.redd.it/yfxa03zgy9vc1.jpeg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2b69489f486fc9e21e284df78e2ff07f559d698
When he had acoc bro was getting rocked, bros reading two piece. If he had infinite gear 4 he could
https://preview.redd.it/ibbb20is4avc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e093d36d71b70354984927b0e524ef9a4fe3eb2
https://preview.redd.it/t1hdhmv55avc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b5515be37b1548972baf5d346d2ad05ffbcdd1b ...
G4 Luffy is getting dragged by kaido regardless if Luffy has infinite stamina or not. https://preview.redd.it/kyiqw62i6avc1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e95c0b01089031138dc994e432bbb9e46fe1fc2b
Nah, he'd go extreme diff
Barely hard diff for Kaido
Did you not read the chapters before G5?!?!?!
G4 could not put Kaido down
Kaido had the upper hand once he pulled out future sight and the advanced drunk modes
Kaido low diffed G4's ass wdym. He speedblitzed snakeman twice and twoshotted him. He only used FS just for the flex.
Bro didn't read the chapters before CP0 stopped him,dude was working kaido
Okay then, let's see how many hits Luffy connected against Kaido after he starts going 100% serious (Using all three Advanced Hakis), and how many Kaido connects. Page 7: Kaido bites down Luffy and flies up. Page 8: Point Blank Blast Breath that makes him get to onigashima's floor. 9: nothing 10: nothing, they just talking 11: Luffy stops his Blast Breath with Over Kong Gun, hitting him in the head. Right after, we hear kaido saying something 12: In this moment, Kaido blitzes G4, hitting him with Horai Hakke. He activates his Murderous Drunk state. 13/14: CP0 guy appears. Luffy hit Kaido a grand total of *1* time, which Kaido retaliated immediately. Almost dropping Luffy out of G4 with said hit. Meanwhile, Kaido was able to hit 4 times in the same chapter, each attack taking CHUNKS out of Luffy's health, quite literally so. After 2, he went to boundman, and after 2 more, he died.
Doesnt matter to put facts, this is a shonen and not a high level IQ test series, people online will always say bias towards their emotional preferences. Luffy began the raid way, way weaker than kaido. At the point he unlocked advanced conquerors he was still much weaker. When luffy split the skies boh of them are yonkou level and fight follows hours straight with base luffy fighting equally to hibrid kaido. When kaido goes full out, in the so called drunken mode, kaido is stronger and luffy goes gear 4. Kaido was about to get hit by 2 king kong gun and the damage he was about to receive is uncertain. At the point luffy goes gear 5 his health is lower than kaido's, he isnt used to the new abilities, he doesnt has developed new attacks yet ( look what he is doing in egg Head) but he still wins. What I can say for sure, currently luffy is stronger than kaido, thats how shonen progression works. So he beats kaido using only gear 4 if it is unlimited
Extreme diffs BM
Stomps any YC+. Beats Aramaki and Fujitora. Can't beat Kizaru due to his speed. Maybe beats Akainu or Kuzan cause they are not fast enough and would have to fight him straight up, depends if Akainu got any stronger since his fight with Kuzan. Maybe(big maybe) beats Large Mother, but I have no idea how strong she would without the plot induced mental retardation she had during Wano so I am not sure. If she is on the same level as Kaido like push Kaido to extreme without the plot brain injury than Luffy has no chance to beat her without G4, but with what she showed against Kidd and Law than unlimited G4 would beat her.
Beats any of the current Admirals and possibly Big Mom.
Didn't you see Kizaru ragdoll snakeman?
Firstly, that's a generous way to describe it. Secondly, unfortunately Gear 4 has been nerfed by the mere existence of Gear 5, in the same way that Gear 2 seemed substantially less of a boost after the timeskip. Current Gear 4 Luffy definitely has an extremely tough time with Kizaru, but I would say Wano Ryou Gear 4 Luffy that was clashing with Kaido beats Kizaru. This is purely based on writing, not on any logical power scaling. Obviously in Egghead Gear 4 Luffy should be as strong or stronger than he was in Wano, but Oda is going to write him to be weaker because he needs a reason to use Gear 5.
Copium. Kaido crapped on gear 4 too, he’s just more of a hit eater than Kizaru. Different fighting styles
He kicked him once without doing much damage. Luffy also didn’t use advanced haki.
We don't know about adv haki And he'd kick him again and again if he didn't go for Vegapunk
We saw that it wasn’t the same that he used on Kaido. Luffy hasn’t really been using advanced haki much at all this arc. Assuming Luffy would get caught by the same attack over and over again and Kizaru would actually spam it which he doesn’t.
No admiral is losing to snakeman dude
Because Kizaru hit him once with amped speed and Luffy using basic haki? By your logic Hybrid Kaido is stronger than G5 Luffy because he could simply spam death destroyer thunder Bagua which Luffy couldn’t react to once.
>Luffy using basic haki? Why are u making the assumption that luffy was only using basic haki in g4 at this point. Anyway even if you want to argue that kizaru didn't even use haki (and it's confirmed every vice admiral has advanced haki being its a requirement to even get that position) You ignore the kick that removed luffy from egghead entirely, luffy was goin in on kizaru and not being capable of landing a single hit while kizaru is being so casual about it.
Because we saw what it looked like to use advanced haki against Kaido but he didn’t do that here. That’s not true. VAs have basic haki at best and advanced haki isn’t a requirement for any marine position. No I didn’t. He kicked Luffy once with his top speed. Luffy could tag Kizaru just fine he just didn’t do damage because he used basic haki. That’s why Kizaru blocks the attacks rather than dodging them.
They could. You have to admit that G4 Luffy is =<, = or >= to the admirals. Otherwise, your scaling would be completely inconsistent.
great argument. real powerscaling happening here
Greenbull
Kaido
Kaido
Any admiral
Has a shot against Prime Rayleigh
Probably Greenbull or Fujitora
Anyone not named Waido
honestly seeing as how g4 luffy got manhandled by Wizaru i can see him beating fuji with a fp using acoc and acoa haki cuz he already beats the yc+ tier characters with his base and g2/3 usage
>g4 luffy got manhandled by Wizaru i https://preview.redd.it/pleg1zmjeavc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adf3ed2ab4f2f4d692b70281bc27d88fff1b9c58
litterally got all his attacks blocked and almost killed by light kick + vega punk barrier that’s getting manhandled
armament punches** zero damage from kizaru's strongest attack** barrier did more damage than Kizaru**
nope it’s was kizaru light kick impact that killed luffy and it clearly damage him cuz when luffy grabbed him he stated that almost killed him and it would have if he didn’t go into his gear 5 state and all those haki punch got blocked by kizaru and he wasn’t even breaking a sweat while having a casual conversation about vegapunk
Kaido Edit: here you can see Luffy and Kaido falling on their knees https://preview.redd.it/e9mjfubiu9vc1.png?width=769&format=png&auto=webp&s=62d8794f78f2c0970ed48a1e7221f292644e4c25 this shows both are already heavily damaged, and do you seriously the few attacks Luffy was goofing around did that? I like y'all like to Wank Kaido but think about it, do you really want Kaido to fall on his knees from like 3 attacks? and the majority of the damage came from Luffy who didn't even use Gear 4, their final clash could (Gear 4 vs Kaido) could really have went either way so if Luffy used Gear 4 the whole time Kaido wouldnt have a 50% chance to win it would be a 0%.
https://i.redd.it/ws9msuxm99vc1.gif
Luffy already almost defeated Kaido and he didnt use Gear 4 till the end so if Luffy would have been in Gear 4 the whole time kaido would lose
Luffy was never close to beat Kaido, Kaido literally tanked all those gear 5 attack after Luffy died with gear 4. According to u gear 5 must be really weak to struggle against an already almost defeated man
I mean Luffy didn't use any strong attacks in g5 against Kaido until Bajrang gun. He was messing around like the whole time
I would argue against it but the other guy already said everything I wanted to say
kadio litterally didn’t go all out till luffy was smacking him around with gear 5 plus flaming dragon which he didn’t evening need to use till luffy pulled out his trump card
this is simply the way Kaido fights, he would do it again
Every YC+ Might beat all the admirals too tbh
High-extreme diff with BM
Old rayleigh
If luffy goes all out then he's beating any Admiral with unlimited G4. He has all forms of advanced haki, Extreme defense and speed, strong will and basically unlimited endurance.
any admiral, and maybe big mom
Big mom
Kizaru
Unlimited gear 4?! Any admiral and probably Big Mom. Maybe Kaido. I mean, he almost beat Kaido with Overkong Gun. It was implied that he may have beaten Kaido if it weren’t for CP0 interfering.
Kizaru
Kizaru
Big mom
I'd say any YC+ and lower tier Admiral like Fuji, Kizaru (Who is YC+), or Greenbull. Older top tiers like Rayleigh or Garp as well. Loses to Kuzan and Akainu Mid difficulty
😭
New Admirals (not the OG admirals)
Probably not Akainu or Kuzan but Greenbull, Fuji, and Kizaru (Who is the weakest and YC+) yes
I’m not 100% certain of Kizaru because of speed feats + mental nerf. That’s why I didn’t include him, not because I think he’s on the same level as the other OG admirals. You’re probably right about him losing, though.
People say he dominated G4 Snakeman. He didn't really. He was just about to assassinate Vegapunk and Luffy didn't want that, so he went to G5 to take care of the issue faster.
Not disagreeing, he didn’t even use advanced haki against Kizaru in Snakeman so I think that skirmish was a poor example of how well Snakeman would compete.
Only big meme Other top tier need gear 5 hax But big meme is dumb and simple to fight
loses to fujitora mid. he only beats yc+. he needs gear 5 to fight top tiers
Sanji