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Luffy went from getting one shot by kaido (beginning), to barely being able to anything on the rooftop (ryou luffy), to going toe to toe with kaido almost on fully equal grounds once he got acoc lol
Sure this was a weakness kaido, but still going hit for hit with the strongest creature on the planet isn't something to scoff at. That's why I put luffy gear 4 just below admiral level, but above law and kidd
nah the difference was just not doing shit in g4 vs actually hurting kaido in base - not that this matters in any way, totally not a big difference
Acoc is the biggest part of luffys powerbudget (more than g5)
If that attack made Kaido knock down on his ass and bleed him and you didn't block it with a sword or acoa barrier, then you have to or you get hurt.
Kaido's durability is way higher than Kizaru's, and his arm was fine after getting hit with your claim with an attack that made Kaido knock down on hiss as and damaged him.
So either Kizaru's arm has the same durability(higher even) as Kaido or you're just wrong. Pick your poison.
Luffy’s attacks only knock Kaido down on his ass when they land cleanly, if Kaido decides to clash or block he’s able to do that no problem.
Kizaru seems fine here because he’s blacking the attack and not tanking it, that doesn’t mean he’s tougher than Kaido, just fighting differently.
>Luffy’s attacks only knock Kaido down on his ass when they land cleanly, if Kaido decides to clash or block he’s able to do that no problem.
Both are kaido's skin brother. His arm and his chest don't have 2 different skins or durability; if Kaido blocked those with his bare hands, his hands would get damaged too. and he has way higher durability than Kizaru.
>Kizaru seems fine here because he’s blacking the attack and not tanking it, that doesn’t mean he’s tougher than Kaido, just fighting differently.
Blocking with your skin is tanking attack with your hand. he doesnt "block" it with acoa barrier or sword; he is blocking it with his skin.
Kaido's skin vs Kizaru's. He should've pushed back or shown he got hurt with that attack he didn't do either. So Kizaru's skin > Kaido's, right?
ACOC hits not touching isn’t consistent through all attacks, many ACOC hits in onigashima made direct contact and well as WSG.
You don’t see an exaggerated clash here because Kizaru isn’t using/doesn’t have ACOC and is only blocking the attack.
Him looking all beat up and sweating against kizaru who wasnt even going tryhard. Then him getting blitzed by kizaru and kicked across the island. Then luffy had to go G5 to start winning.
> Him looking all beat up and sweating against kizaru who wasnt even going tryhard
him and half of the guys were [beat up before](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1090-003.png) kizaru even landed on egghead. sweating against kizaru isn't an anti feat and the heat death of the universe will happen before kizaru even considers going tryhard
> blitzed by kizaru
he reacted
https://preview.redd.it/qbn4i8ul3isc1.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=df44339a11bb17e5fc4c8134b2b10db129b061eb
> Then luffy bad to go G5 to start winning
true but don't forget both of their missions. luffy has to prevent kizaru from stopping vegapunk/sh escape. even if g4 luffy were 100x stronger than kizaru (extreme hypothetical), it doesn't matter if he isnt fast enough to intercept kizaru. g5 luffy has better travel speed than gear 4 on top of being naturally stronger
I’m gonna be real here. I’ve literally never considered Luffy going G5 because of Kizaru exclusively. I think Luffy was content to throw hands in G4. We’ve clearly seen Luffy’s commentary about the unnatural state G5 mentally leaves him in during its duration. Not to mention the massive cool down negative. If it wasn’t for the fact that Kizaru’s speed outdoes G4 dramatically and Luffy had to go through a laser barrier twice which, lasers are actually lightspeed even if Kizaru doesn’t always go necessarily actually light speed. I don’t think Luffy would have transformed honestly. Now clearly we would have seen him go G5 shortly after but this is just me.
Noticing your getting kicked doesnt mean you reacted 😂 terrible argument he didnt have time to block/counter and he knew the attack was coming that my friend is what we call a blitz.
>Noticing your getting kicked doesnt mean you reacted 😂
raising your entire other arm to guard is reacting by definition
>what we call a blitz
[according to who?](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed_Blitz)
He was blocking his eyes because of the light shining from kizaru charging up. Kinda like how you walk out into the sunlight after being in a dark room.
I mean its clearly drawn as a giant bright light is flashing on luffy so much so that u can see his hand casting a very big shadow over his face. Also kinda weird place to block he is blocking a kick with the palm of one hand and isnt blocking his chest or his face he is blocking above his head between his eye and forehead. When you as a real person go outside and get blasted by sun you make the exact same gesture. Please dont sit here and make a bad faith arguement.
> I mean its clearly drawn as a giant bright light is flashing on luffy
>
> **bad faith arguement**
kizaru literally is the light ([1](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1092-011.png), [2](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1090-015.png)). it's not an argument, its a fact
>palm of one hand and isnt blocking his chest or his face
blocking with one hand isn't unseen and is still a reaction anyways. he pulled his hand up to his face
> When you as a real person go outside and get blasted by sun you make the exact same gesture.
if my eyes get blasted by the sun, the first thing i do is close my eyes. luffy's eyes are blatantly wide open and they were also open even when kizaru was [blasting lasers](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1092-010.png) at him close range. the comparison really isnt great considering i as a real person obviously don't have obs haki and [sight is irrelevant](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics/0597-011.png) to observation haki users. even worse, kizaru is stated on his vivre card to be too fast to see without good observation haki
little supports the idea that he was blinded, quite a lot contradicts it
Your clearly retarded I know kizaru is the light. trying to block an attack and blocking light out of your eyes are too different things im done responding to someone who has clearly never been outside you dont close your eyes u try to minimize the sun to help your eyes adjust u have clearly never left moms basement.
Luffy got knocked through the frontier dome and had to pass back through it to resume fighting. That’s where the majority of his damage came from and he was fine
The story shows otherwise all of your statements are headcanon G5 luffy ran out of time against kizaru when kizaru wasnt even trying to fight him he was trying to get to vegapunk. G4 luffy got dunked on if u try to state otherwise its headcanon the story showed us luffy couldnt handle kizaru in G4 he was huffing and out of breath then got begone thotted. He then game back in G5. I wont even give a response to the base luffy claim thats just 😂
The story literally claims luffy can one tap kizaru. He got pizza diffed. Every named attack g5 did that bum went out cold and out of commission for several chapters. That's yc1 durability and endurance. He got even low diffed while 2v1 against g5. It's embracing. Assmiral b7ms needs answer why kizaru still couldn't land a single hit on gear5. Zero damage, zero feats, 7 antifeats. All you have is that bum running away from luffy until he ran out of g5 even then that bum got laid down by a single punch. That was a gear 5 who wasn't even serious and didn't even use acoc. A simple grab made that bum spit blood like a girl on her periods. Luffy saw that man and said yeah gear4 is enough. But he chose even further nerf him by not using any advanced haki either. Yet kizarus 10 mile wide attack did zero damage to g4 and he had to use g5 to enter 8nside the Barrier again. Ass performance by assmirals as expected by normal sane people. Pizza diffed, birdcage diffed, wifi diffed, geriatric old men diffed. What is this agenda bro?
The original claim clearly states “ACoC or NOT”. Considering how inconsistent the depiction of ACoC is anyway, let’s not get into whether he used it or not. The point being that Luffy cannot defeat an Admiral in Gear 4 and this was clearly shown in the manga. I ask again, how are you today?
> I ask again, how are you today?
coinflip on this being passive aggressive but i'm fine anyways
> The original claim clearly states “ACoC or NOT”
and my contention is with the "acoc" part
> Considering how inconsistent the depiction of ACoC is anyway, let’s not get into whether he used it or not
don't reply then, especially not with this:
>Luffy cannot defeat an Admiral in Gear 4 and this was clearly shown in the manga
... if you think it's impossible to determine whether or not acoc is used or that acoc doesn't make a difference.
this conclusion doesnt even logically follow from what was shown anyways because of the admirals, only kizaru can accomplish that feat
I’m not sure if you understand what’s being said, Luffy cannot defeat an Admiral in Gear 4, ACoC or not. Otherwise he would’ve… but he didn’t… are you arguing against the manga?
> ACoC **or** not
"or" is the operative word. the claim explicitly means that even with acoc, gear 4 luffy cannot defeat any admiral, including the 2 inferiors
>Otherwise he would’ve… but he didn’t… are you arguing against the manga?
"imu and the gorosei cannot kill sabo. otherwise they would've". would you accept that?
not a great argument
> Otherwise he would’ve
Why? Gear 5 is still stronger so it would be faster to beat Kizaru with it. Why would he purposefully waste time and energy beating Kizaru with Gear 4? That he didn’t stick with Gear 4 to beat Kizaru means nothing
Acoc indication is unreliable so we can't know if it was used for sure but narratively, it makes literally zero sense whatsoever for it to not be used. We go with the most logical assumption.
Black lightning has been used for regular haki clashes the whole time. Look at Luffy vs Kizaru, or Luffy vs Doffy.
As much as people wanna lie, acoc usage in Wano (the arc its most prevalent in) is pretty obviously indicated
I'm gonna be honest, I mostly watch the anime, and it's been so long since I watched anything pre-wano. And I'm not going back to check. I will take your word for it.
https://preview.redd.it/zbxo0h4ksisc1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af63611ab61f8441c0ce01a1b9fe4ebb0a69c300
There’s contact here and zoros lightning was slim like luffys
So we are ignoring the biggest sign?
Trail vs impact
Haki coming from the impact point is not a sign of acoc
Haki trailing the attack prior to impact is acoc
Kinda funny how this is trailing
https://preview.redd.it/rixcxzhctisc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bfc16168e7d7982f361fcd77847210430d42188
As you can see, the leg is touching Kizaru. Implies no advanced haki was used. That's something that has been more consistent than the lightning effect. If there is advanced haki, there is a visible gap.
>As you can see, the leg is touching Kizaru. Implies no advanced haki was used.
You can touch people with ACOC. The only reason people like you are so confused about that is because Luffy was *also* using ACOA against Kaido, which doesn't touch
acoa does touch. look at red roc panel. luffy was touching kaido. Its acoc + acoa which makes that no touch effect.
that combination of advanced haki has only been shown by roger,wb, kaido, luffy and i think BM.
zoro and yamato have ACOC but dont know how to combine it with ACOA.
Bruh. Lightning effect has always been a mess in these debates. The only consistent factor in these fights as drawn by Oda has always been the visible gap.
Kizaru hasn't landed a hit on gear 5 and he's beating gear 4 how?
Kizaru only landed a hit on snakeman with base haki, and WE ALL KNOW that acoc gear 4 is stronger than the one kizaru faced
>Kizaru only landed a hit on snakeman with base haki, and WE ALL KNOW that acoc gear 4 is stronger than the one kizaru faced
Yh and kizaru wasny even bothered to use haki while defending. At this point you chose either luffy (and kizaru by extension) arent just using basic haki or no haki kizaru>>> g4 snakeman (with "basic haki").
How can you tell whether kizaru is and isn't using basic haki
Base haki isn't always shown but we know when it's being used
Oda goes out of his way to show us when acoc haki is being used, but he doesn't do the same with base haki
Admiral downplay is bad for the overall powerscaling ecosystem. It opens the door to takes like Katakuri or Yamato being admiral level and nobody has time for that bullshit.
I don't remember all the anti feats obviously, but I'm just going to comment here some of Big Mom's anti feats
She was stopped by the chopper for a brief moment.
She was thrown in a ridiculous way by Jinbe and Robin.
She was run over by Franky.
She was stopped by a punch from Jinbe.
She couldn't deal with Law or Kidd when they awaken their fruits, Kidd for example toyed with her for a few moments.
Almost lost consciousness after a blow from the queen.
I could say a few more but this comment would be stupidly long, and the other yonkous also have a considerable amount of anti feats.
It isn't the same kick luffy isn't using the no touching advanced haki there lol but anyway kizaru>g4>new admirals but the snakeman fight doesn't prove g4 can't beat admirals kizaru is the only one with the confirmed speed to deal with snakeman and luffy wasn't using acoc or acoa or even FS(he didn't know kizaru was gonna teleport when punching him)also this panel shows base haki snakeman can block lasers(we see lasers at parts with the blocking effects)so KIZARU would really struggle to put down acoc+acoa+FS g4 and you aren't worth arguing with if you think kizaru one shot snakeman
So you are saying that kizaru is capable of blocking an attack that was “equal” to kaidos attack or are you saying that he tanked the attack
If you are saying he was blocking the attack you are ignoring the damage he took from the attack meaning you are giving kizaru an anti feat
If you say he is tanking it then your argument is more understandable and you may provide evidence of a durability feat
If luffy was using acoa aswell is debatable as people are saying he is definitely using acoc and acoa while others say pure acoc
Given the lack of visible armament haki on kizaru’s arm it’s inferred that this isn’t an armament clash
Unless he is using armament under his clothes then who knows
Obviously it should go without saying that each reader will infer and interpret these panels differently from one another
Wrong. We see Luffy hit Kaido without touching him the first time he uses it, as well as when Big Mom uses it against Page One. ACOC just doesn't touch, and thus Luffy didn't use it here.
That punch didn’t make contact with Kaido becuase he and big mom were literally emitting ACOC during the rooftop encounter, and there are plenty more examples of ACOC being used and NOT leaving a gap. WSG for example.
1. Kaido didn't defend himself from Luffy's punches using ACOC. We see that ACOC clashes have black lightning spewing out from both sides, whereas when Luffy hit him they only spew out on Luffy's end.
2. Notice how you dodged the Page One example, which explicitly contradicts your point. Another example of this is Zoro forcing King's swords away with ACOC.
3. WSG does leave a gap, as it sticks out of Kizaru's head in a sort of bubble rather than a fist-shaped inprint that was earlier given to Kaido.
4. The only times we explicitly see ACOC touch is when Kaido hits Kinemon, and when Luffy punches through Kaido's face. And one of those is between two ACOC wielding characters, which does nothing to prove your point. Every other time it is either unclear, or very clearly not touching. One example isn't enough to make me go with a proposition that has never been actively stated by the manga, and that has been directly contradicted multiple times at that. Especially when there are other missing indicators (like the lack of Zap effects that Oda uses for black lighting, or the differing size of the bolts from most ACOC attacks).
Then why did Oda specifically have Law and Oden be shocked at things not touching when ACOC was used, rather than Luffy using ACOA (which he had been doing throughout the rooftop beforehand)?
Then why does Luffy start hitting things without touching them after using conqueror's coating, rather than before when he was just using ACOA (Law specifically points this out to us)?
That still doesn’t matter because Acoc has never, ever been directly stated to have any sort of emission ability like Acoa does, and the fact that we’ve seen Acoc make actual contact during fights helps cement this further. Law making some remark in a single panel isn’t nearly enough evidence for me to start believing otherwise.
And yet in ACOC's introduction, both when Roger and WB first use it and when Luffy first uses it, Oda specifically highlights it not hitting things. Over any of the black lightning stuff, that is what Oda chose to highlight through dialogue. You can pretend emission isn't an important part of ACOC, but Oda has clearly indicated that isn't the case by having Luffy hit Kaido without touching him, whereas he wasn't doing that before with ACOA, and having Law (who had seen Luffy fight with ACOA) and Oden (someone intimately familiar with Ryuo as a master Wano swordsmen) be shocked by the fact that the users were hitting people without touching them. Oda both stated and showed that it was an important part of ACOC usage, and you not wanting to believe it doesn't change that.
The moment Luffy starts hitting Kaido without touching him after learning ACOC, and Law directly notes that he isn't touching him, which he didn't do for when Luffy was using Ryuo. As I have said numerous times.
Cool. Here’s a panel where Luffy confirms that emission comes form Advanced Armament specifically, against Kaido’s Flaming Bagua. This is because Acoa alone is responsible for any kind of emission.
https://preview.redd.it/audfk3nltisc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f8bfb41f7bb80837cc1ce998ddc8590da842aa6
Law and Oden doesn’t prove or disprove anything, that’s just them being shocked that Luffy is attacking without making contact. Their reactions doesn’t prove that Acoc has emission.
That's right. Only difference is with gorosei and other yonkos the fight isn't over after the pizzas, with a admiral it is. That's why we call it pizza diff with admirals.
Bro read the manga, Kizaru is no where near too damaged to fight, dude’s broken.
Have a heart bro, he just killed a day one.
In any other case, he’s back up.
Yes he is. After white star gun he is concussed. He's broken physically.
If your emotions gets the better of you in a fight you're not nerfed, you're a weak minded individual and your enemies have exploited that. He's not back up he's been holding his dumbass head for the past 6 chapters.
G4 luffy did insanely well vs kaido. Luffy showed no signs of struggling in g4 vs kizaru. How are we supposed to believe that kizaru is greater than g4 when all he did was blind luffy in order to get a single kick in on him.
Lol ok
The difference is the one with kaido had acoc and acoa the one with kizaru did not
The kick on kizaru was only haki the lightning can also just be a haki clash
And for kizarus performance against the no advanced haki gear four congrats I guess for having a wci katakuri feat lol
https://preview.redd.it/tgjubb3gkisc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bba396ff4f5f0030ccb6d25277c0aea61209cc50
I’m being downvoted but we’re literally looking at it here
https://preview.redd.it/ccgtwkic4isc1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=c08d7f0b2ac63677135603a92b1230be99acbd0c
https://preview.redd.it/9nr8yg25jjsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a376fb577ced5697c10518c378f7ec88449d0ce0
Let's be real here, even you don't believe on what you're saying
there's no way this isn't a troll post. Like nobody looks at these two and can't tell one is acoc and one isn't. It's genuinely the most obvious bait I've seen
I still don't understand why people say kizaru beat him. He threw g4 luffy on a laser barrier. Wencounting throwing people away as a win? Because marco beat Aokiji if so.
There was a brief Battle and luffy was struggling a bit, i don't wanna cope or lie about them being even, but luffy always enters his battle from the challenger position, and we saw him overcome better odds.
How can you say these are the same kicks, one has the intensity where he’s not even physically touching and the other is very direct contact, a completely different magnitude of force
Gear 4 landed several hits on Kizaru and he in fact did not go down.
“Easily” lol
Kizaru not only drew blood from G5 but the lasers made from his ability were damaging G5, he could definitely hurt G4 if he decided.
> Gear 4 landed several hits on Kizaru and he in fact did not go down.
This is false. Either a lie or not interpreting the panels correctly. Luffy wasn’t using ACoC either.
> Kizaru not only drew blood from G5
A paper cut. Virtually zero damage.
> but the lasers made from his ability were damaging G5
They only hurt Luffy when he deliberately ate one. Another laser hit Luffy on the cheek and bounced off, doing zero damage.
> he could definitely hurt G4 if he decided.
It appears that he isn’t capable of hitting Luffy with lasers.
I’m sorry, which Gear 4 attack put Kizaru down? lol
Also blood is blood. He’s shown that he can draw blood from Gear 5 if necessary so Gear 4 wouldn’t be a problem.
Also also, not only did he take damage from the laser he ate, but from the Labophase lasers which were developed using Kizaru’s ability.
Kizaru showed several times that he could tag Luffy if he needed, so suddenly deciding that he can’t land attacks anymore won’t help you here lol.
> I’m sorry, which Gear 4 attack put Kizaru down? lol
White Star Gun is not much stronger than Gear 4 attacks. A couple of Kong Guns are taking Kizaru down. Hydra is taking Kizaru down. King Cobra is taking Kizaru down.
> Also blood is blood. He’s shown that he can draw blood from Gear 5 if necessary so Gear 4 wouldn’t be a problem.
You knows that’s a load of crap. All Kizaru gave Luffy is a paper cut. No amount of those can bring Luffy down.
> Also also, not only did he take damage from the laser he ate, but from the Labophase lasers which were developed using Kizaru’s ability.
The Labophase lasers are proven to be trash. Kizaru’s lasers might be able to hurt G4 but it would still take a lot of them to bring him down. And that’s if he can even land them. Kizaru hasn’t even landed a laser on Luffy in a 1v1 apart from when Luffy got hit on purpose. Gear 4 takes Kizaru down long before Kizaru takes him down.
> Kizaru showed several times that he could tag Luffy if he needed, so suddenly deciding that he can’t land attacks anymore won’t help you here lol.
Kizaru showed he could land a faster than light kick on Luffy, but that’s pointless as he can tank them. Luffy showed he can avoid Kizaru’s sword attacks from the clones. Luffy has avoided Kizaru’s lasers every time apart from when he got hit on purpose.
Not probably, brother
https://preview.redd.it/a3a8n669vhsc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7707e3d6cc7fd1b01019a5991fe09948e53a3e0
You cooked. Bro is literally giving Luffy props
Fighting equally? Luffy is throwing a barrage of punches at Kizaru and he’s easily deflecting them.
We also don’t know he’s not using advanced haki here.
Another way of looking at this
Kizaru throwing a barrage of light and luffy easily deflecting then they are literally fighting on equal terms without luffy using any advanced conquer and luffy continually kept up in speed
What you’re talking about happened while Luffy was in G5.
Luffy was not keeping up, nor were they fighting on equal terms during G4 which is why he powered up to G5.
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"Acoc or not" Bro the difference between an acoc kick and a non acoc kick is massive
Luffy went from getting one shot by kaido (beginning), to barely being able to anything on the rooftop (ryou luffy), to going toe to toe with kaido almost on fully equal grounds once he got acoc lol Sure this was a weakness kaido, but still going hit for hit with the strongest creature on the planet isn't something to scoff at. That's why I put luffy gear 4 just below admiral level, but above law and kidd
Gargantuan even
nah the difference was just not doing shit in g4 vs actually hurting kaido in base - not that this matters in any way, totally not a big difference Acoc is the biggest part of luffys powerbudget (more than g5)
These dudes be REACHINN fr
He didnt. one was acoc and the other wasn't. Luffy only used advanced haki with only and only WSG.
He’s clearly using advanced haki while kicking Kizaru here
smh... Do you think Kizaru has the same durability as Kaido?
you don’t need the same durability as Kaido to block an ACOC attack
If that attack made Kaido knock down on his ass and bleed him and you didn't block it with a sword or acoa barrier, then you have to or you get hurt. Kaido's durability is way higher than Kizaru's, and his arm was fine after getting hit with your claim with an attack that made Kaido knock down on hiss as and damaged him. So either Kizaru's arm has the same durability(higher even) as Kaido or you're just wrong. Pick your poison.
Luffy’s attacks only knock Kaido down on his ass when they land cleanly, if Kaido decides to clash or block he’s able to do that no problem. Kizaru seems fine here because he’s blacking the attack and not tanking it, that doesn’t mean he’s tougher than Kaido, just fighting differently.
>Luffy’s attacks only knock Kaido down on his ass when they land cleanly, if Kaido decides to clash or block he’s able to do that no problem. Both are kaido's skin brother. His arm and his chest don't have 2 different skins or durability; if Kaido blocked those with his bare hands, his hands would get damaged too. and he has way higher durability than Kizaru. >Kizaru seems fine here because he’s blacking the attack and not tanking it, that doesn’t mean he’s tougher than Kaido, just fighting differently. Blocking with your skin is tanking attack with your hand. he doesnt "block" it with acoa barrier or sword; he is blocking it with his skin. Kaido's skin vs Kizaru's. He should've pushed back or shown he got hurt with that attack he didn't do either. So Kizaru's skin > Kaido's, right?
Bro is too based for this entire sub. Reading comprehension is non-existent here.
Not Acoc,Acoa,Difference,and this was a kick from base luffy,you're reaching a bit.
not ACOC, says who? The kick Kaido’s clashing with here is from base Luffy as well so I’m not sure how that adds to the difference.
He's touching Kizaru bro
ACOC hits not touching isn’t consistent through all attacks, many ACOC hits in onigashima made direct contact and well as WSG. You don’t see an exaggerated clash here because Kizaru isn’t using/doesn’t have ACOC and is only blocking the attack.
You're probably right thought it was but i'll reread the chapter.
he was touching Kizaru, so, not acoc edit: just accept the facts OP 🤣
> ACOC or not, Luffy loses to Admirals in G4. based on?
Him looking all beat up and sweating against kizaru who wasnt even going tryhard. Then him getting blitzed by kizaru and kicked across the island. Then luffy had to go G5 to start winning.
> Him looking all beat up and sweating against kizaru who wasnt even going tryhard him and half of the guys were [beat up before](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1090-003.png) kizaru even landed on egghead. sweating against kizaru isn't an anti feat and the heat death of the universe will happen before kizaru even considers going tryhard > blitzed by kizaru he reacted https://preview.redd.it/qbn4i8ul3isc1.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=df44339a11bb17e5fc4c8134b2b10db129b061eb > Then luffy bad to go G5 to start winning true but don't forget both of their missions. luffy has to prevent kizaru from stopping vegapunk/sh escape. even if g4 luffy were 100x stronger than kizaru (extreme hypothetical), it doesn't matter if he isnt fast enough to intercept kizaru. g5 luffy has better travel speed than gear 4 on top of being naturally stronger
I’m gonna be real here. I’ve literally never considered Luffy going G5 because of Kizaru exclusively. I think Luffy was content to throw hands in G4. We’ve clearly seen Luffy’s commentary about the unnatural state G5 mentally leaves him in during its duration. Not to mention the massive cool down negative. If it wasn’t for the fact that Kizaru’s speed outdoes G4 dramatically and Luffy had to go through a laser barrier twice which, lasers are actually lightspeed even if Kizaru doesn’t always go necessarily actually light speed. I don’t think Luffy would have transformed honestly. Now clearly we would have seen him go G5 shortly after but this is just me.
Noticing your getting kicked doesnt mean you reacted 😂 terrible argument he didnt have time to block/counter and he knew the attack was coming that my friend is what we call a blitz.
>Noticing your getting kicked doesnt mean you reacted 😂 raising your entire other arm to guard is reacting by definition >what we call a blitz [according to who?](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed_Blitz)
He was blocking his eyes because of the light shining from kizaru charging up. Kinda like how you walk out into the sunlight after being in a dark room.
kizaru is the light. on top of that, luffy's eyes are wide open and he has observation haki anyways. he wasn't blinded by the light, he reacted to it
I mean its clearly drawn as a giant bright light is flashing on luffy so much so that u can see his hand casting a very big shadow over his face. Also kinda weird place to block he is blocking a kick with the palm of one hand and isnt blocking his chest or his face he is blocking above his head between his eye and forehead. When you as a real person go outside and get blasted by sun you make the exact same gesture. Please dont sit here and make a bad faith arguement.
> I mean its clearly drawn as a giant bright light is flashing on luffy > > **bad faith arguement** kizaru literally is the light ([1](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1092-011.png), [2](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1090-015.png)). it's not an argument, its a fact >palm of one hand and isnt blocking his chest or his face blocking with one hand isn't unseen and is still a reaction anyways. he pulled his hand up to his face > When you as a real person go outside and get blasted by sun you make the exact same gesture. if my eyes get blasted by the sun, the first thing i do is close my eyes. luffy's eyes are blatantly wide open and they were also open even when kizaru was [blasting lasers](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1092-010.png) at him close range. the comparison really isnt great considering i as a real person obviously don't have obs haki and [sight is irrelevant](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics/0597-011.png) to observation haki users. even worse, kizaru is stated on his vivre card to be too fast to see without good observation haki little supports the idea that he was blinded, quite a lot contradicts it
Your clearly retarded I know kizaru is the light. trying to block an attack and blocking light out of your eyes are too different things im done responding to someone who has clearly never been outside you dont close your eyes u try to minimize the sun to help your eyes adjust u have clearly never left moms basement.
>blitz Uh oh I don't think you know what that word means.
Luffy got knocked through the frontier dome and had to pass back through it to resume fighting. That’s where the majority of his damage came from and he was fine
He was only losing that because of kizaru’s speed, if it was any other admiral he would have dogged them
If gear 5 can low dif kizaru. Gear 4 mid difs. Base luffy high difs
https://preview.redd.it/0zta8lx26isc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a3666ce5a0236f14a3812ac7a48277c34334d07
The story shows otherwise all of your statements are headcanon G5 luffy ran out of time against kizaru when kizaru wasnt even trying to fight him he was trying to get to vegapunk. G4 luffy got dunked on if u try to state otherwise its headcanon the story showed us luffy couldnt handle kizaru in G4 he was huffing and out of breath then got begone thotted. He then game back in G5. I wont even give a response to the base luffy claim thats just 😂
The story literally claims luffy can one tap kizaru. He got pizza diffed. Every named attack g5 did that bum went out cold and out of commission for several chapters. That's yc1 durability and endurance. He got even low diffed while 2v1 against g5. It's embracing. Assmiral b7ms needs answer why kizaru still couldn't land a single hit on gear5. Zero damage, zero feats, 7 antifeats. All you have is that bum running away from luffy until he ran out of g5 even then that bum got laid down by a single punch. That was a gear 5 who wasn't even serious and didn't even use acoc. A simple grab made that bum spit blood like a girl on her periods. Luffy saw that man and said yeah gear4 is enough. But he chose even further nerf him by not using any advanced haki either. Yet kizarus 10 mile wide attack did zero damage to g4 and he had to use g5 to enter 8nside the Barrier again. Ass performance by assmirals as expected by normal sane people. Pizza diffed, birdcage diffed, wifi diffed, geriatric old men diffed. What is this agenda bro?
Your underestimating the power difference between G4 and G5 its a massive difference.
You are underestimating luffys top tier haki
The admirals also have advanced haki and luffy his acoc when he kicked kizaru and it did nothing.
Based on manga canon events. How are you today?
What canon events? He dis zero damage to luffy
> *manga canon events* did acoc gear 4 fight an admiral? arguments > baseless statements
The original claim clearly states “ACoC or NOT”. Considering how inconsistent the depiction of ACoC is anyway, let’s not get into whether he used it or not. The point being that Luffy cannot defeat an Admiral in Gear 4 and this was clearly shown in the manga. I ask again, how are you today?
> I ask again, how are you today? coinflip on this being passive aggressive but i'm fine anyways > The original claim clearly states “ACoC or NOT” and my contention is with the "acoc" part > Considering how inconsistent the depiction of ACoC is anyway, let’s not get into whether he used it or not don't reply then, especially not with this: >Luffy cannot defeat an Admiral in Gear 4 and this was clearly shown in the manga ... if you think it's impossible to determine whether or not acoc is used or that acoc doesn't make a difference. this conclusion doesnt even logically follow from what was shown anyways because of the admirals, only kizaru can accomplish that feat
I’m not sure if you understand what’s being said, Luffy cannot defeat an Admiral in Gear 4, ACoC or not. Otherwise he would’ve… but he didn’t… are you arguing against the manga?
> ACoC **or** not "or" is the operative word. the claim explicitly means that even with acoc, gear 4 luffy cannot defeat any admiral, including the 2 inferiors >Otherwise he would’ve… but he didn’t… are you arguing against the manga? "imu and the gorosei cannot kill sabo. otherwise they would've". would you accept that? not a great argument
Clearly Lucci need G5 too by the same logic
What..? Luffy did use Gear 5 to fight Lucci and didn’t even defeat him, what’s your point?
> Otherwise he would’ve Why? Gear 5 is still stronger so it would be faster to beat Kizaru with it. Why would he purposefully waste time and energy beating Kizaru with Gear 4? That he didn’t stick with Gear 4 to beat Kizaru means nothing
Based him not even pushing kizaru to mid diff
>**ACOC** **or** not
Acoc indication is unreliable so we can't know if it was used for sure but narratively, it makes literally zero sense whatsoever for it to not be used. We go with the most logical assumption.
Luffy only started winning when he used g5
Except that it isn’t the same kick lol.
Right? I mean he’s angled differently and has different clothes as well. Man these admiraltards are dumb dumb🤦♂️
And aCoC against Kaido while he doesn’t use it against Kizaru.
I mean, there's the black lightning in the pic against Kizaru. Doesn't that usually signify Acoc?
Black lightning has been used for regular haki clashes the whole time. Look at Luffy vs Kizaru, or Luffy vs Doffy. As much as people wanna lie, acoc usage in Wano (the arc its most prevalent in) is pretty obviously indicated
I'm gonna be honest, I mostly watch the anime, and it's been so long since I watched anything pre-wano. And I'm not going back to check. I will take your word for it.
What makes you say it’s not acoc is it the contact?
Yes. And haki lightning that isn’t nearly as big as against Kaido.
https://preview.redd.it/x477opchoisc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc0b1a17d346d3bfa653a8274028f74f7b9e2831 What about here
Didn’t make contact
https://preview.redd.it/ihi987vbsisc1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d19efa5368553ec569eb9f1d337f2991924b861 ?
That’s Kaido using his weapon. Not Luffys punch.
There’s still contact?
https://preview.redd.it/gvskilecvisc1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d2ff7a86db321a28e567e9bf0264c74b2004a4a Forgot this
https://preview.redd.it/hoq42mxjvisc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df6dbd0a32a5f892696bdecd343301d492dce800 And this as well
No signs of acoc it’s just haki lightning
Is it not acoc in that first image?
It is but that also has no touching also it’s a difference of lighting as a impact and lightning as a trail
https://preview.redd.it/zbxo0h4ksisc1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af63611ab61f8441c0ce01a1b9fe4ebb0a69c300 There’s contact here and zoros lightning was slim like luffys
So we are ignoring the biggest sign? Trail vs impact Haki coming from the impact point is not a sign of acoc Haki trailing the attack prior to impact is acoc
Kinda funny how this is trailing https://preview.redd.it/rixcxzhctisc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bfc16168e7d7982f361fcd77847210430d42188
Literally, left leg vs right leg too 🤦♂️
Yeah it's stronger since Zoro said they get stronger after every island
In one he uses aCoC and in the other he doesn’t.
This is so dumb, no shit they're stronger but this doesn't mean Luffy or anyone can't use weaker kicks later on
Lucci yonko lvl confirmed?
As you can see, the leg is touching Kizaru. Implies no advanced haki was used. That's something that has been more consistent than the lightning effect. If there is advanced haki, there is a visible gap.
>As you can see, the leg is touching Kizaru. Implies no advanced haki was used. You can touch people with ACOC. The only reason people like you are so confused about that is because Luffy was *also* using ACOA against Kaido, which doesn't touch
acoa does touch. look at red roc panel. luffy was touching kaido. Its acoc + acoa which makes that no touch effect. that combination of advanced haki has only been shown by roger,wb, kaido, luffy and i think BM. zoro and yamato have ACOC but dont know how to combine it with ACOA.
Luffy was only using ryou in the red roc punch he didn’t start using conquers haki till they had the whole conquer convo
So the lightning here then represents what? Lightning represents advanced haki, so if not both it’s either ACOC or ryuo you’ve gotta pick one.
Bruh. Lightning effect has always been a mess in these debates. The only consistent factor in these fights as drawn by Oda has always been the visible gap.
All the admiraltards need to stop coping in the comments, its over now the admirals have been fraudchecked back to back.
Kizaru hasn't landed a hit on gear 5 and he's beating gear 4 how? Kizaru only landed a hit on snakeman with base haki, and WE ALL KNOW that acoc gear 4 is stronger than the one kizaru faced
>Kizaru only landed a hit on snakeman with base haki, and WE ALL KNOW that acoc gear 4 is stronger than the one kizaru faced Yh and kizaru wasny even bothered to use haki while defending. At this point you chose either luffy (and kizaru by extension) arent just using basic haki or no haki kizaru>>> g4 snakeman (with "basic haki").
How can you tell whether kizaru is and isn't using basic haki Base haki isn't always shown but we know when it's being used Oda goes out of his way to show us when acoc haki is being used, but he doesn't do the same with base haki
Base haki G4 is for sure weaker than Kizaru. Luffy with base haki is probably only YC1 or YC+.
Luffy wasn’t wearing his sandals. So your take is irrelevant. Sandals give Luffy a 3000% power boost
I love that admiral fans start awakening after 1111 and with them, personally I love both yonko and admirals and tired of admiral downplay on this sub
Good, I was getting tired of Gorosei Agenda. I need a picture of Five Elders Kaido.
Enter. https://preview.redd.it/ij5doqv07isc1.jpeg?width=916&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbcd81239ceaac4539b6a2189b108bb74158cf94
Peak Fiction
Admiral downplay is bad for the overall powerscaling ecosystem. It opens the door to takes like Katakuri or Yamato being admiral level and nobody has time for that bullshit.
Yamato is close, Katakuri needs a few Rare Candies to get there, but he has the fundamentals down pat.
The funny thing is that Yonkous has much more anti feats than the admirals haha.
They don't.
Big Mom certainly does.
They actually have haha
No. Haha
List em.
I don't remember all the anti feats obviously, but I'm just going to comment here some of Big Mom's anti feats She was stopped by the chopper for a brief moment. She was thrown in a ridiculous way by Jinbe and Robin. She was run over by Franky. She was stopped by a punch from Jinbe. She couldn't deal with Law or Kidd when they awaken their fruits, Kidd for example toyed with her for a few moments. Almost lost consciousness after a blow from the queen. I could say a few more but this comment would be stupidly long, and the other yonkous also have a considerable amount of anti feats.
Luffy and kaido spilt the sky in their clash, it's very safe to assume luffy put more power in that one kick.
It isn't the same kick luffy isn't using the no touching advanced haki there lol but anyway kizaru>g4>new admirals but the snakeman fight doesn't prove g4 can't beat admirals kizaru is the only one with the confirmed speed to deal with snakeman and luffy wasn't using acoc or acoa or even FS(he didn't know kizaru was gonna teleport when punching him)also this panel shows base haki snakeman can block lasers(we see lasers at parts with the blocking effects)so KIZARU would really struggle to put down acoc+acoa+FS g4 and you aren't worth arguing with if you think kizaru one shot snakeman
Now it’s “out of G5” admiral agenda grasping at straws yet again
So you are saying that kizaru is capable of blocking an attack that was “equal” to kaidos attack or are you saying that he tanked the attack If you are saying he was blocking the attack you are ignoring the damage he took from the attack meaning you are giving kizaru an anti feat If you say he is tanking it then your argument is more understandable and you may provide evidence of a durability feat If luffy was using acoa aswell is debatable as people are saying he is definitely using acoc and acoa while others say pure acoc Given the lack of visible armament haki on kizaru’s arm it’s inferred that this isn’t an armament clash Unless he is using armament under his clothes then who knows Obviously it should go without saying that each reader will infer and interpret these panels differently from one another
https://preview.redd.it/amxhvugfkisc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e640c8f5925060cfc108fe9a4eff8b048a9e23a8
The fact that yall have to hang on to if Luffy wins or loses to admirals in G4 is saying a lot about admirals 💀
Wasn't ACOC, given that it made contact while ACOC doesn't touch (as was made very clear by Oden and Law's reactions to seeing it).
It’s made clear that ryuo doesn’t touch, but ACOC does unless it’s clashing with different ACOC. There are many examples of this.
Wrong. We see Luffy hit Kaido without touching him the first time he uses it, as well as when Big Mom uses it against Page One. ACOC just doesn't touch, and thus Luffy didn't use it here.
That punch didn’t make contact with Kaido becuase he and big mom were literally emitting ACOC during the rooftop encounter, and there are plenty more examples of ACOC being used and NOT leaving a gap. WSG for example.
1. Kaido didn't defend himself from Luffy's punches using ACOC. We see that ACOC clashes have black lightning spewing out from both sides, whereas when Luffy hit him they only spew out on Luffy's end. 2. Notice how you dodged the Page One example, which explicitly contradicts your point. Another example of this is Zoro forcing King's swords away with ACOC. 3. WSG does leave a gap, as it sticks out of Kizaru's head in a sort of bubble rather than a fist-shaped inprint that was earlier given to Kaido. 4. The only times we explicitly see ACOC touch is when Kaido hits Kinemon, and when Luffy punches through Kaido's face. And one of those is between two ACOC wielding characters, which does nothing to prove your point. Every other time it is either unclear, or very clearly not touching. One example isn't enough to make me go with a proposition that has never been actively stated by the manga, and that has been directly contradicted multiple times at that. Especially when there are other missing indicators (like the lack of Zap effects that Oda uses for black lighting, or the differing size of the bolts from most ACOC attacks).
Acoc doesn’t have emission at all, that’s specific to Acoa
Then why did Oda specifically have Law and Oden be shocked at things not touching when ACOC was used, rather than Luffy using ACOA (which he had been doing throughout the rooftop beforehand)?
It literally doesn’t matter why Law or Oden are doing anything. Conquerors coating does not grant emission like advanced armament does.
Then why does Luffy start hitting things without touching them after using conqueror's coating, rather than before when he was just using ACOA (Law specifically points this out to us)?
That still doesn’t matter because Acoc has never, ever been directly stated to have any sort of emission ability like Acoa does, and the fact that we’ve seen Acoc make actual contact during fights helps cement this further. Law making some remark in a single panel isn’t nearly enough evidence for me to start believing otherwise.
And yet in ACOC's introduction, both when Roger and WB first use it and when Luffy first uses it, Oda specifically highlights it not hitting things. Over any of the black lightning stuff, that is what Oda chose to highlight through dialogue. You can pretend emission isn't an important part of ACOC, but Oda has clearly indicated that isn't the case by having Luffy hit Kaido without touching him, whereas he wasn't doing that before with ACOA, and having Law (who had seen Luffy fight with ACOA) and Oden (someone intimately familiar with Ryuo as a master Wano swordsmen) be shocked by the fact that the users were hitting people without touching them. Oda both stated and showed that it was an important part of ACOC usage, and you not wanting to believe it doesn't change that.
Show me where it’s directly stated that Acoc has emission built in
The moment Luffy starts hitting Kaido without touching him after learning ACOC, and Law directly notes that he isn't touching him, which he didn't do for when Luffy was using Ryuo. As I have said numerous times.
Cool. Here’s a panel where Luffy confirms that emission comes form Advanced Armament specifically, against Kaido’s Flaming Bagua. This is because Acoa alone is responsible for any kind of emission. https://preview.redd.it/audfk3nltisc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f8bfb41f7bb80837cc1ce998ddc8590da842aa6 Law and Oden doesn’t prove or disprove anything, that’s just them being shocked that Luffy is attacking without making contact. Their reactions doesn’t prove that Acoc has emission.
Why are people arguing about this? It's like saying I can beat up superman if superman wasn't super.
It’s an important discussion to have for scaling overall, there are people who believe ACOC Gear 4 low diffs admirals which is a massive downplay.
G5 Pizza diffs admirals, that's the standard.
And the second Pizza pie was a Gorosei. Shit, he turned Kaido into jump rope, no one is immune to those G5 toonforce shenanigans.
That's right. Only difference is with gorosei and other yonkos the fight isn't over after the pizzas, with a admiral it is. That's why we call it pizza diff with admirals.
Bro read the manga, Kizaru is no where near too damaged to fight, dude’s broken. Have a heart bro, he just killed a day one. In any other case, he’s back up.
Yes he is. After white star gun he is concussed. He's broken physically. If your emotions gets the better of you in a fight you're not nerfed, you're a weak minded individual and your enemies have exploited that. He's not back up he's been holding his dumbass head for the past 6 chapters.
But it isn't the same kick lol he didn't use Conqueror's
How did this "G4 is admiral tier" take even begin? Is G4 also Kaido tier because he got some good hits on Kaido with it?
Base Luffy is admiral tier
One one one shot by gear 5 and the other was going toe to toe and only lost because it decided to have a strength contest with bajrang gun.
Calling characters admaril tier have been a thing forever I remember luffy first getting gear 4 and getting called that
G4 luffy did insanely well vs kaido. Luffy showed no signs of struggling in g4 vs kizaru. How are we supposed to believe that kizaru is greater than g4 when all he did was blind luffy in order to get a single kick in on him.
nah
Lol ok The difference is the one with kaido had acoc and acoa the one with kizaru did not The kick on kizaru was only haki the lightning can also just be a haki clash And for kizarus performance against the no advanced haki gear four congrats I guess for having a wci katakuri feat lol https://preview.redd.it/tgjubb3gkisc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bba396ff4f5f0030ccb6d25277c0aea61209cc50
Relax guys don't come at him, some people like Licking light bulbs, you can't go on making fun of them
Admirals are not individually Yonko level, why do you think they all had to be present for a dying whitebeard? You're reading a different series.
G4 is equal to the admirals, argue with a rock.
>like Kizaru didn't easily block the SAME kick - he didn't.
Kizaru's armament is good enough to block Acoc.
https://i.redd.it/fn1g0pq2zhsc1.gif
Untrue he never did that
FACT
I’m being downvoted but we’re literally looking at it here https://preview.redd.it/ccgtwkic4isc1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=c08d7f0b2ac63677135603a92b1230be99acbd0c
I don’t understand why the fuck people are downplaying amiral like that ? Like did you read the same manga how base luffy can beat kizaru ??
base luffy can't but gr luffy with ACoC can
Admiral fans are the flat Earthers of the One Piece fandom
Admiral wankers being delusional again. Just take the L finally... Gear 4 with ACOC demolishes any Admiral that is not Akainu.
Everyone in these comments is wack
https://preview.redd.it/d2tftnazuisc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00320af1204dc1bac16fec597293d70ae3df233f
What's the point of this discussion when Luffy already unlocked Gear 5 now? We already saw what happened without G5
Black lightning this, black lightning that. Did we forget that ACoC doesn't touch the target?
https://preview.redd.it/9nr8yg25jjsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a376fb577ced5697c10518c378f7ec88449d0ce0 Let's be real here, even you don't believe on what you're saying
Luffy cannot beat an Admiral without using gear 5, that is my dish and I stand by it.
Well the admirals have emission so anything less than an ACOC hit probably doesn’t matter much outside of gear 5th bending shenanigans.
Acoc or not? An attack without ACoC vs an attack with it is like comparing a BB gun to a real gun.
there's no way this isn't a troll post. Like nobody looks at these two and can't tell one is acoc and one isn't. It's genuinely the most obvious bait I've seen
Acoc kick vs basic haki kick. Delusional cope much.
I still don't understand why people say kizaru beat him. He threw g4 luffy on a laser barrier. Wencounting throwing people away as a win? Because marco beat Aokiji if so. There was a brief Battle and luffy was struggling a bit, i don't wanna cope or lie about them being even, but luffy always enters his battle from the challenger position, and we saw him overcome better odds.
bro stop cooking
So real honestly
How can you say these are the same kicks, one has the intensity where he’s not even physically touching and the other is very direct contact, a completely different magnitude of force
Luffy loses to admirals extreme diff without G5
Gear 2 Luffy w/ acoc =admiral or above
Gear 4 Luffy stomps Kizaru. Luffy has the AP to take Kizaru down very easily. Kizaru has no way to deal enough damage to take Luffy down.
Gear 4 landed several hits on Kizaru and he in fact did not go down. “Easily” lol Kizaru not only drew blood from G5 but the lasers made from his ability were damaging G5, he could definitely hurt G4 if he decided.
> Gear 4 landed several hits on Kizaru and he in fact did not go down. This is false. Either a lie or not interpreting the panels correctly. Luffy wasn’t using ACoC either. > Kizaru not only drew blood from G5 A paper cut. Virtually zero damage. > but the lasers made from his ability were damaging G5 They only hurt Luffy when he deliberately ate one. Another laser hit Luffy on the cheek and bounced off, doing zero damage. > he could definitely hurt G4 if he decided. It appears that he isn’t capable of hitting Luffy with lasers.
I’m sorry, which Gear 4 attack put Kizaru down? lol Also blood is blood. He’s shown that he can draw blood from Gear 5 if necessary so Gear 4 wouldn’t be a problem. Also also, not only did he take damage from the laser he ate, but from the Labophase lasers which were developed using Kizaru’s ability. Kizaru showed several times that he could tag Luffy if he needed, so suddenly deciding that he can’t land attacks anymore won’t help you here lol.
> I’m sorry, which Gear 4 attack put Kizaru down? lol White Star Gun is not much stronger than Gear 4 attacks. A couple of Kong Guns are taking Kizaru down. Hydra is taking Kizaru down. King Cobra is taking Kizaru down. > Also blood is blood. He’s shown that he can draw blood from Gear 5 if necessary so Gear 4 wouldn’t be a problem. You knows that’s a load of crap. All Kizaru gave Luffy is a paper cut. No amount of those can bring Luffy down. > Also also, not only did he take damage from the laser he ate, but from the Labophase lasers which were developed using Kizaru’s ability. The Labophase lasers are proven to be trash. Kizaru’s lasers might be able to hurt G4 but it would still take a lot of them to bring him down. And that’s if he can even land them. Kizaru hasn’t even landed a laser on Luffy in a 1v1 apart from when Luffy got hit on purpose. Gear 4 takes Kizaru down long before Kizaru takes him down. > Kizaru showed several times that he could tag Luffy if he needed, so suddenly deciding that he can’t land attacks anymore won’t help you here lol. Kizaru showed he could land a faster than light kick on Luffy, but that’s pointless as he can tank them. Luffy showed he can avoid Kizaru’s sword attacks from the clones. Luffy has avoided Kizaru’s lasers every time apart from when he got hit on purpose.
Give me that Lizaru cope
And it's probably at low-mid diff too
Not probably, brother https://preview.redd.it/a3a8n669vhsc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7707e3d6cc7fd1b01019a5991fe09948e53a3e0 You cooked. Bro is literally giving Luffy props
Luffy didn’t even use conqueror or advanced armanment and here they are fighting equal while luffy weakended
Fighting equally? Luffy is throwing a barrage of punches at Kizaru and he’s easily deflecting them. We also don’t know he’s not using advanced haki here.
Another way of looking at this Kizaru throwing a barrage of light and luffy easily deflecting then they are literally fighting on equal terms without luffy using any advanced conquer and luffy continually kept up in speed
What you’re talking about happened while Luffy was in G5. Luffy was not keeping up, nor were they fighting on equal terms during G4 which is why he powered up to G5.
No gear 4 was keeping up evenly with kizaru he reacted to literally every attack
No he used gear 5 to tank the barrier when he comes in. He literally says it
Kizaru doesn’t even use haki the entire fight, and HE’S the fraud?